Judmental Breastfeeding Moms

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/16/2012

Ok, when did I state it was a cure all? Laura, you and Maree are going on about breastmilk as if it can assist everyone in all aspects of life. And I can ask you the same thing. Why don't YOU get it? I breastfeed just like YOU. I just don't believe EVERYTHING YOU do!



I don't believe that breastmilk changes EVERYTHING. You accuse me of only using my husband as an example, so I give other examples and suddenly I don't 'get it' because I'm not believing as you do. Put yourself in my place for a moment please. I am adopted, I was raised on formula. I have had no infections, allergies, hospital stays and I was ahead of other babies in everything but walking. Can you maybe 'get it' now why I don't believe that breastmilk is the only way to stay 'healthier'?



Honestly, I know you're job is to be a breast feeding conselor, but I wouldn't want someone like you conselling me to breastfeed because you seem so adament that if I don't breastfeed that my children won't be as healthy as they 'could' be and that if I want to use formula it's because I just haven't 'tried hard enough'. No woman wants to hear that even as an undertone- especially from someone they go to for help.



Just like Shawnn I struggled to breastfeed my first daughter and I couldn't. She nearly starved as well. I was also going through severe PPD and my ex husband was in Iraq getting ready to divorce me. Needless to say I was not in a proper mental state for 'breaking my back' to breast feed. Especially since at 2 months my baby girl was only 7lbs and she was 6lbs 8oz when born. I couldn't get her to really eat anything, she wouldn't take my left breast because of an inverted nipple (I'm adopted so my mom had never heard of nipple sheilds and she couldn't help). So just like Shawnn I am very passionate about this whole debate.



It's the 'proud and loud' moms that make me ashamed to breastfeed since they seem to be the most pushy and judgemental and give the rest of the breastfeeding moms a bad name. There are so many more ways to bond with your child than breastfeeding them And that is also a FACT.



ETA: Laura, I don't even understand why you're saying I don't 'get it' since for the most part my posts have agreed with you. YOu for whatever reason decided I was disagreeing with something you said.

Shawnn - posted on 03/16/2012

“Now as for the topic of judgement, people judge. This has been said. And you ask why people judge formula feeders? I think I said this already! Some moms choose formula for no reason except they don't feel like breastfeeding and this obviously upsets some moms who break their backs making sure their babies get breastmilk. So those moms make the proud and loud breastfeeding moms feel mad”



Ok, Laura, the above quote, taken from your post 3 days ago, is EXACTLY why Cinnamon, myself, and others say that breastfeeding mothers are judgmental without having the facts. You and others like yourself, those who “break their backs making sure their babies get breastmilk”, automatically ASSUME that those of us who are not breaking out the boob to feed the baby are lazy, & uneducated. You just stated it! And, yes, we experience that daily when we are trying to do the best we can for our babies.



The bottom line is, in my experience, the “proud and loud” breastfeeding moms are completely rude and ignorant, and unable to contain themselves. When my boys were young, I had women accost me at the mall, the park, any public venue that I was feeding my children in. I was told, loudly and at length, how I was abusing and neglecting the needs of my children by bottle feeding. Now, mind you, how these great gurus of breastfeeding could tell that I was feeding formula, I’ll never know, nor will I ever know how they came about their knowledge of my childcare methods. However, their approach was completely unwelcome, unwanted, and unnecessary intrusion into my personal space and life.



Never once did any of these wonderful breastfeeding gurus think to ask if I’d tried this or that, or even what my story was. They assumed. ASSUMED that they knew everything about me, and my life. Well, let me tell you this. My children both almost starved to death within their first 2 months of life because I was so desperate to breast feed them. I wanted that bond, that time. I was unable to produce ANY nutrients in my milk, despite my best efforts, and I had to switch to formula. That was a personal and private decision, and a painful one as well. And every single time one of you “gurus” makes that assumption about people, and then acts on it, you are bringing up a very painful time for some of us.



Cinnamon, I know EXACTLY how you feel. My response to the rude, ignorant women that thought they needed to comment on my choices was as follows “Since I gave birth to him, I’ll make the decisions for his care. Unless, of course, you’d like to take full responsibility right now. Thank you for your unsolicited input. Please remove yourself from my personal space. You’re upsetting the baby”



The default is NOT to “suck it up” and NOT to let them make you feel horrible about yourself. Hold your head up high, know that you ARE a good parent, and a good person, and let those who think they must judge deal with their own problems in their own time. It always helped me to remember that, if they were inconsiderate enough to make a comment about your personal decisions, they mustn’t have caught the lessons in manners that we were all taught growing up.



And, yes, Laura, I am passionate about this subject. Because as we all know, PPD is a BIG deal, and the more mothers who feel judged about their parenting decisions, the more likely there is to be an upswing in PPD. Especially in first time mothers. One other thing I'd like to point out: My children (formula) are healthier and more active than my sister in law's children who were breastfed. Both sets of children are the same ages. From day 1, my niece and nephew have had more illnesses, been on more antibiotics and medications, and in more treatment than both of my sons.



Yes, genetics plays a part, as does environment, etc. But you cannot ignore the fact that there have been great leaps and bounds in infant products in the last few decades, and that formula is no longer the "worst thing you can feed" your baby.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/16/2012

Megan why can't you GET IT



Breastmilk is not a freaking cure all

It doesn't create immortality

It doesn't prevent every illness and disease



It's simply healthiER

BettER

Not perfect, not some crazy immortal juice.

It's the normal food for humans and it is the best choice.

Formula is beneath it in health.

Formula fed adults will be not as healthy, not reach their full potential.



It doesn't matter who got what disease or who died when. Human milk makes humans live their best lives.

Formula makes humans live just fine usually but there are some risks to not having the biologically normal food.



Yes genetics play a part, yes environment plays a part, ive said this already a million and one times!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/16/2012

Okay, nice touch of sarcasm at the end of your post but Laura, it's hardly one person. I've worked in assisted living for Alzheimers and dimensia- do you really think all of those people were formula fed? I doubt it. So I don't get how you figure it's only one person. I've given Maree a few examples as well. I have a cousin who was breastfed and he had so many ear infections he had to get tubes in his ears. But hey, to you maybe that's only two people now.



I'm a care aide, I've taken care of stroke patients, people with MS, people with alzheimers, dimensia and people with CP. If I decided to take a survey I'm sure I could find both breast fed and formula fed babies from the people I took care of. So no it's not just one person I've seen with health issues.



I've also stated I forget how many times that your environment and lifestyle along with genetics also play a role in how your health will be as an older child and adult. I don't know why that gets skipped only- well I know these people who were breast fed. Oddly also my brother and I being soley formula fed with no issues (not even an ear infection) also gets skipped or I'm told I was just lucky.



And if you want to talk age of death and health in grandparents, my paternal grandmother was breastfed, a vegan and died from stomach cancer at 85. So again, genetic predisposition to certain cancers and perhaps issues with her heart from having rheumatic fever twice and giving birth to 7 children.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/16/2012

Groovy girl I don't know why you're so defensive about your choice to use formula.

No I'm not being rude or mean and my FACTS are not mean.

Facts are emotionless.

I have never said ff moms are bad. I've never said anyone deserves to be judged!

You THINK I'm judging you because I'm talking about how formula is inferior.

That isn't mean that's a fact. It doesn't mean you're an inferior mom or your baby will live an inferior life.

My daughter ate chips yesterday, chips are inferior food. Eating chips carry risks, chips are not healthy, but such is life, she will be 'fine' but had I given her something healthier she would have been 'healthier'

It's not a dis on my parenting or on yours. It's just facts. Some foods are healthier then others. Breastmilk is healthier then formula. Fact

Formula is healthier then cows milk or soy milk etc.

And chips are not healthy at all lol.





Megan, one person does not prove anything. I couldn't care less how unhealthy your bf hubby is or how healthy you were on formula. It doesn't prove anything.

My husbands grandpa died at 77 years old, he chain smoked cigarettes from age 14-76 years old. He finally quit and then a year later he died of heart problems.

Sooooo,smoking kept him alive? Quitting made him die?

I think not.

WENDY - posted on 03/16/2012

I am 55 years old so when I was breastfeed back then! I didn't make it a big issue that I didn't go a whole year or not! I did it for 6 months with each 2 younger one My oldest was a primie so I just had to pump is all with her...Your not a failure if you don't breastfeed for a certain amount of months! Do what make you feel good stop worring about what other people think. If you stopped early so what! better for you in the long run!

Cinnamon - posted on 03/16/2012

Thank you Johnny for the link, I found it very interesting and actually wish this educational information were handed out to pregnant women. Luckily neither of my daughter's have ever had any of these conditions, but perhaps that's due to the fact that I did breastfeed exclusively for the first 4 months. I had heard that any breastfeeding is good so I guess the time I did get was helpful. I am a scientist and am not entirely impressed with the sample sizes or number of variables that could be involved that are not excluded, but much of the information is still very useful. Specifically the formula contamination, I follow and participate in Raising Natural Kids, a wonderful website and Facebook page if you want to check it out, and the Moms on there had excellent information on alternatives to formula and even a recipe on how to make your own. Obviously with the occasional formula recall, I was glad to have other options. Again this goes with not judging because what's in that bottle might not be formula, but I think we've covered that. Also it seemed a lot of the research pointed toward the risks of never breastfeeding and focused in on low socioeconomic babies, so I'm not sure it would apply to the vast majority of Moms on here, but again I really do appreciate the information.



On another note, I was within seconds of closing this discussion due to the high level of arguing that's continued, so I'll use an oldie but goodie piece of advice. If you don't have anything nice to say, please don't say it at all.

Johnny - posted on 03/15/2012

I fed my daughter formula. It was the right choice. However, I don't need to ignore the facts to avoid guilt. This is NOT about making people feel bad or suggesting that people who use formula are bad mothers. There has been extensive research into the risks of formula feeding. I have zero patience for ignoring facts on anything simply to make ourselves feel better. So I acknowledge it, and move on with what I can do about it. At the time, my daughter needed formula. Fortunately for me, she seems to have suffered no ill effects. That does not mean they don't exist. Anecdotal evidence is not scientific data.



The risks of formula feeding:



- Otitis media (middle ear infection): 3 to 5 times more likely

- Gastroenteritis: 6 times more likely

- Respiratory diseases (bronchitis, pneumonia): 2 to 5 times more likely

- Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS): 3 to 5 times more likely

- Lymphomas: 6 to 8 times more likely

- Type-1 Diabetes: 2 to 7 times more likely

- Necrotising enterocolitis: 20 times more likely

- Inflammatory diseases of the intestine (ulcerative colitis, Crohn’s disease): 3 times more likely



More details:



http://www.infactcanada.ca/RisksofFormul...

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/15/2012

Maree, I know breastfed babies who are now adults who have quite a few issues (dementia anyone?) and I know bottle fed babies who have doctorates.



And if you don't care so much, why keep replying and fear mongering about the dangers of formula?



Breastmilk is great, it's wonderful and dammit all if you're a birth mom it's free! But it's not going to magically prevent your child from not succumbing to allergies and illnesses (my husband is going to be my example of that for a while) nor will it prevent him or her from having learning disabilities (Husband again- he has ADHD and Auditory processing disability)



Breastfeeding moms and advocates need to realize that breast feeding is not for everyone. Even breastfeeding moms sometimes get tired of being 'the cow with the milk'. And if a mom is feeling pressured into breastfeeding because others claim it's the best for her and the baby and she's miserable and only doing it because of all these wonderous things that may or may not happen, then how happy is that baby going to be? And how much will that mom be upset because that baby only wants mommy? And now I am speaking from my own experiances.

Maree - posted on 03/15/2012

Laura i would like your list of risks as well. Although i know what they are i don't have the time to write them all now.



I think many ARE in fact obvious...in my experience of course !!!



I know ONE breast fed baby that has issues and that is one of my nephews.



Almost every other baby i know that was bottle fed has either asthma,eczema,food allergies and god only knows what else in the future. I don't think people like to consider that they really have no idea what will happen in the future and what their child may end up with that could have been prevented by breast feeding....they will simply put it down to genetics or bad luck.



Personally i would NEVER take the risk...i don't care what my next door neighbours kid turned out like,or whether or not you can't tell the difference between a breast and bottle fed child once they start school. I'd rather take notice of real facts and studies,not the opinion of some nobody!!!



Formula comes with too many risks and is certainly not a risk i am willing to take....everyone else can do as they please.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/15/2012

LOl Groovy girl my thoughts exactly.



People claim that breastfed babies are less likely to have allergies and get sick- then please explain why my husband is deathly allergic to bell peppers and gets bronchitis a few times a year because he had pnuemonia twice as a child. After that please explain why I have no allergies or recurring illnesses. Actually let me save everyone the time- genetics.

Maree - posted on 03/15/2012

No one is suggesting that a little girl who is not doing well in school is inferior...



and no one is suggesting that a mother who gives formula is inferior....only that the PRODUCT itself is inferior.



Also i don't think many people are going around in the "real world" putting people down for bottle feeding. If they are asked their opinion then maybe they will give it...if then the person gets offended then maybe they shouldn't have asked.



People need to stop being so offended and sooky...do you think it's better to bullshit to people if they ask for an opinion?? What good would that do??



If most mothers are aware of the facts before they give birth then what on earth are they thinking when they stop breast feeding???



I seriously doubt that all of them all of a sudden lost their milk....if they have a good reason then fine,whatever....no need to feel guilty...but stop getting the poops at everyone who simply tells the truth...and that is that breast milk is best for most babies,most babies CAN be breast fed,most mothers CAN breast feed and formula is inferior.



I stand by my opinion that someone who flies off the handle about other peoples comments on this topic clearly have guilt issues....they should find a way to work through it or not come on here.



I am told i need to be nicer,i think people need to toughen up.

Groovy Girl - posted on 03/15/2012

Also,

You have not told me what the lifelong risks are of bottle-feeding, other than they are not always obvious. I have already told you that in just my own observations most children who have been breastfed that I know have many of the childhood illnesses that I was told breastfeeding helps prevent. This is seemingly not just exclusive to bottled babies as we were once told. So please tell me, what r those risks?

Groovy Girl - posted on 03/15/2012

Laura,



You are that mother the op was referring to. Do you not think that most mothers are well aware of the facts before they give birth. Unless you are being paid for giving advice or are asked your opinion it is not your job to tell anyone that you think they should breastfeed. It is unwanted, judgmental and just plain mean.

One more time here, Let's say you had a little girl and she had a little friend who was really not good in school. The little girl knows full well that she is not good at school. Do you think it is your little girls job to constantly remind her little friend that she is not good in school and unless she figures it out she is going to have some real problems in the future. OR do you think it would be more helpful to her little friend if your daughter was just supportive and realized that some things just aren't meant to be. Cause if you chose the second way then YOU had better set a better example.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/15/2012

Megan, I'd still stick with two types of ff moms. Ones who chose formula, and ones who had to use it.

There's moms who claim they had to use it when really if they had been better informed or better supported or better motivated hey could have fed, but over all there's always going to be those distinctions between the two groups of ff moms.

Adoptive moms fit right in there, some bf, some try to bf, some don't. So they either used formula out of necessity or out of choice.

There's plenty of sub categories to each group but those are the two main differences in formula feeding mamas.



Groovy girl, I think a lot of ff moms feel that facts about formula are negativity or judgement.

It's not negative to say that formula carries risks. It's not judgment to say formula is inferior.

These are facts. But moms want to convince themselves that formula is just as good so they get mad and hurt when anyone reminds them that it's just not the same.

Groovy Girl - posted on 03/14/2012

Wow,,,,

I don't think anyone needs to have a "go" here. Exactly no one on here has said anything negative about breastfeeding. However, the same cannot be said for the negativity on this thread for bottle feeders. Which is a Real shame for the op who was tired of the negativity and ignorance regarding this issue in the first place.

A question to the mothers who break their backs and bend over backwards to breastfeeding their babies and just get so annoyed by these,lazy,uninformed bottle feeders and decide to let these ladies at the mall or local playgroup know that bottle feeding is dangerous, do you also realize that your. Judgmental behavior is not going unnoticed by your children or the children of the other mother. So maybe , to keep up your almost perfect mothering you should just zip it.

Maree - posted on 03/14/2012

Megan i would only have a go at someone who came up to me and had a go at me for breast feeding. I wouldn't care whether or not she had adopted...if she wanted to give me shit for breast feeding i'd give it right back,i have no desire to say anything to anyone in real life to their face about them bottle feeding or anything else.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/14/2012

Katherine, I'm from Western NY and now live in central BC. Here in the Okanagan we have people trying to start a breastfeeding cafe. We're encouraged to nurse our babies and toddlers while at story time with them.



Alberta I've heard is a different story- I'm going there this summer to visit a friend of mine and woe to anyone who tries to get mad at me for feeding my baby.



I'm not completely Immune my youngest BIL's now ex GF is from the UK She told me that breastfeeding women should feed their children in the washroom. I asked her if she would like to eat her food in the washroom. My mom was probably the most...well not offended probably more like weirded out... by my choice. She wanted me to cover up in the house if my dad was at home or just go upstairs.



I just experianced less of the stares than you did I guess. When I still lived in NY I used a cover and breastfed in public or use the family room at the Strong Museum of Play. Shoot I even breastfed while walking (using a carrier) at the Lilac Festival. I just had issues with the nurse practitioner at my daughters' pediatricians implying I wasn't doing my best with my older daughter because she didn't gain weight when I tried to breastfeed her. And then finding formula that she would keep down was also an issue.



My older daughter is 7 now- almost 8 and you can't really tell if she was given formula or breastmilk.

Katherine - posted on 03/14/2012

Megan, I currently live in Indiana and breast feeding here is in the minority. I used to live in Idaho, where the breast feeding population was 80-85%, and I didn't get the rude glares or comments ever. Though, I also never saw a breast feeding mom giving bottle feeding moms a hard time there like I've experienced here while breast feeding in public.



There are TONS of message boards about how awful breast feeding in public is. You can easily find several articles on ARRESTS made of moms breast feeding in public. People in the US are generally accepting of breast feeding but NOT at all accepting of doing so in public. You're lucky if you live somewhere where this isn't true.

Katherine - posted on 03/14/2012

One thing is clear reading this thread: being judged, no matter what it is for, hurts. We, as moms, are doing our very best for our babies, and that's all we can do. And at least now I DO see Cinnamon's point of view, whereas before, I was so scarred by hurtful judging on breast feeding (from mom's who never thought to try breast feeding because it's too "weird" and "gross"), that I assumed MOST bottle feeding moms chose not to breast feed because they were disgusted by it. But I see now that not only did Cinnamon want to breast feed, she continues to beat herself up over it.



Although I believe that some breast feeding moms look at you scornfully, Cinnamon (and I apologize for them), I also whole-heartedly believe that YOU are being the harshest of all on yourself! Let it go, believe that you are doing the very best for your baby (because you are), and I'd be willing to bet that a lot of those glares will suddenly stop.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/14/2012

Maree, what happened to not judging everyone? And there is no guarantee you would win. I mean, try going up against an adoptive mom as to why she's not breastfeeding. I'm pretty sure she'd tell you where to stick your precious opinions on why breastfeeding is better.



Katherine, I have no idea where you're living but back where I'm from I had more crap about why I didn't breastfeed my first child. And I have breastfed without a cover in Boston Pizza here in BC an no one cares.

Maree - posted on 03/14/2012

of course there are more than 2 megan...



katherine you are so right,although i can't say i have had bad experiences with any other person reguarding my breast feeding of either of my kids...i did get lots of dirty looks with my son but i put that down to me looking so young !!!



I think it would be awesome for some bottle feeder to give me shit cause i'd love to give her sit right back...and guaranteed i'd win when it came down to health benefits for both mother and baby.



I think most bottle feeders know this but they are well aware that it isn't very likely that a breast feeder is going to come back at them with a comment of their own....they bloody well should though,i wouldn't cop that !!!!

Katherine - posted on 03/14/2012

I have to agree with Sherri. This is my second child breast feeding and I've gotten SO MANY nasty looks, rude under-the-breath comments, even people WALKING OUT of restaurants in disgust because I'm breast feeding my infant UNDER A NURSING COVER even! People have flat out told me to go somewhere private like the restrooms, and I do try it, but the loud flushing toilets and the loud hand dryers always made my babies scared to death and cry.



Frankly, I'm sick of hearing non-breast feeding moms tell us how horrible we make you guys feel; I've never known ANY bottle feeding moms who've gotten ANY dirty looks in public while feeding their infants, much less have to endure horrible comments! Seriously, it's the non-breast feeding moms that are super judgmental, NOT the other way around!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/14/2012

Exactly Emma. What good is breastfeeding if it makes mom miserable? Happy moms make happy babies and anyone who want to pass judgement on that fact can bog off.

Stifler's - posted on 03/14/2012

Yes it's a fact but breastfeeding /bottle feeding is sometimes a better option for the mum. especially on medication and other reasons. there are 2 people to consider in a breastfeeding relationship not just the baby.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/14/2012

Maree, but it is still offensive to just tell a mom that her baby isn't getting the right type of food. I'm not going to keep going around and around with you on this because you know my stance and many of us already know yours.



And since there are more than 4 there are more than 2 as well right?

Maree - posted on 03/14/2012

There are many different types of formula feeding mums AND breast feeding mums....way more than 4.



Everyone has a reason,good or bad but i do believe that bottle fed babies ARE being short changed. It is not necessarily the mothers fault especially if they adopted or they have some sort of medical condition or reason why they could not breast feed but it doesn't change the fact that breast milk is better for babies than formula....not to deliberately upset or offend anyone but it is a fact.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/14/2012

Laura: This The lifelong differences is the human fed human milk will have their best chance of being as healthy as possible gïven the rest of their lives.

The formula fed human will have a slightly less good chance of being as healthy as they could have been given the rest of their lives. Is always what upsets me. Why not just come out and say: Mom's who don't breastfeed are short changing their children.



Also I disagree with you on this: I feel there's two groups of formula feeding moms. Group 1 tried to bf, and for whatever reason HAD to use formula.

Group 2 maybe bf a bit, maybe gave it a shot maybe didn't at all but for whatever reason CHOSE to use formula.





I feel there are 4 types of formula feeding moms, not just 2. You forgot about adoptive moms like my own mom who raised me since I was three days old. And birth moms like my SIL who didn't want to try breast feeding at all for whatever reason. When you only include birth moms and ones who at least maybe tried to breastfeed I feel it short changes the moms who just didn't do it or didn't go through 9 months of carrying around the child they raised followed by how many minutes or hours of labour. As well as those who knew they weren't going to breast feed anyway.

Maree - posted on 03/14/2012

Just for an example....my first baby was a natural birth...PERFECT right ?????

Well i guess that depends who you ask.



My second was an "elective c-section"....if "elective" means being told by my Obstetrician (director of obstetrics) that it was the best thing considering i am a tiny person with a large baby that was unengaged,head still floating and pushing 42 weeks pregnant !!!!



My point is that although i am sure people think my "elective" c-section was the lazy way out or i was too posh to push or whatever....it was not the case.



I was completely devastated about it and cried all the way to surgery...



It doesn't cahnge the fact that natural is the BEST way to go IF it is safe and IF it is possible....

In my case it may or may not have been safe. I CHOSE to have the c-section just in case and on the recommendation of my doctor whom i trust.



I AM NOT offended by peoples comments on here or anywhere else about the laziness of c-sectioned mums. I am not lazy and if some other person is...well i really don't know or care. C-section v natural is not something i am passionate about when it comes to other people and i really don't believe that it makes a difference to bonding or feeding....at least in my case.



If someone said to me that having a natural birth is the best and the healthiest i would totally agree!!!

In my case,probably not but in general of course it is. There is no reason to be offended by the truth if you have nothing to feel guilty about.



I get the feeling that so many women DO feel guilty for bottle feeding which is why they go nuts and think that they are being called shitty mothers because they couldn't/wouldn't/didn't want to breast feed.



Maybe i walk around with my head in the clouds...I don't know,but i am certainly not worried if someone thinks i should have tried harder for a natural birth or if they say i should have circumcised my son...or i should have got married before i had my first baby...I don't give a shit cause i am an awesome mum and i was awesome even at 20 years old and single. I don't need reassurance from anyone and Cinnamon,if you have done the right thing then what people say or think should go in one ear and out the other.



When people say that breast milk is better than formula...well it's true. It is a fact that most people are aware of,it is NOTHING to get offended about. It is stupid and ridiculous to try convince a person that formula is just as good...not to mention bloody dangerous and potentially harmful to babies,the health system and society as a whole.



Take peoples comments with a grain of salt as long as you know in your heart that you did your best.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/14/2012

Thanks cinnamon :)



Think moms care because of the same reason we care if a child is lost, or being ignored, or hurt, they're not our babies but we love all babies!

Most moms would jump at the chance to help out a strangers baby, so when they see what appears as a selfish mom not thinking of her baby first, they care.

Maybe it's wrong, maybe not. We should be looking out for our neighbors, and strangers too, but this type of thing doesn't do moms or their babies any good.

Moms can't just up and switch back to bf so the criticism is really useless and just plain hurtful.



You're right, I am passionate about this! My job is as a breastfeeding peer counselor through my local wic organization so I'm constantly talking to new moms and helping them decide to bf, helping them start bf, helping them continue bf. it's hard but I enjoy it a ton and when you can really help other moms breastfeed it is a wonderful feeling

Cinnamon - posted on 03/14/2012

Laura I hear what you're saying and think I understand you a bit more now. The one remaining problem I have is why should a successful breastfeeding Mom care what other Moms do? I understand they worked hard because it was important to them, but it was important to me as well and I have no ill will toward women who didn't want to breastfeed. It's their kid so why should it affect me. I loved breastfeeding and never felt I was sacrificing anything, it was healthy, I bonded with my children and it was cheap, ha ha. Bottle feeding to me often feels like more of a sacrifice with the time involved in prep and cleaning. Clearly this is very important to you and I think that's great, maybe it was just be better in a more constructive way, like spreading the word about breastfeeding. Believe me I wish I knew more when I started out, so the resources and voices are needed. Thank you for your contribution, I only wish it wasn't so difficult to understand people on the internet sometimes. Best wishes.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/14/2012

I can't speak for Johnny but I feel there's two groups of formula feeding moms. Group 1 tried to bf, and for whatever reason HAD to use formula.

Group 2 maybe bf a bit, maybe gave it a shot maybe didn't at all but for whatever reason CHOSE to use formula.

Neither group deserves judgement but group 2 does tend to cause a ruckus in the hearts of moms in group 3 who struggled to bf, worked hard at it, but managed to continue.

When women shun the power of bf and choose to do what fits their lives better, and not care about the risks of formula, then it does upset some more outspoken moms who feel like they gave up so much and tried so hard and sacrificed so much to give their babies breastmilk.

Groovy Girl - posted on 03/14/2012

Laura and Johnny,

You are not making sense. You both have said the exact same thing, " Don't feel judged,unless you have something to feel guilty about and then in the next sentence " formula is inferior and a lot of bottle-feeding mothers are to lazy and really upset us loving, superior breastfeeding mothers. If you didn't mean it that way, you certainly sound that way.

It's like saying, " you shouldn't feel judged if someone calls you an idiot, but by the way all those things you do, that is what idiots do! lol.

Like cinnamon I think this thread is lost on a few people but to me it has proved her point.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/14/2012

I don't assume bottle feeding moms are lazy or selfish. But the people who are judging them that you're talking about probably do.

If they assumed bottle feeding moms were moms who tried their hardest to bf but couldn't, then they wouldn't be judging.



I'm not the one judging anyone.



I do understand why moms take it hard when they can't bf, truly I do, but I don't understand the guilt over it if you really did your best. I mean sure some aspect of guilt always remains as we are moms and we are full of guilt. But being confident in your decisions goes a long way to not caring about people who judge you.



Jamie Lynn I agree! Yes even moms who choose formula from the start don't deserve judgement.

But one thing, ppd medication doesn't require weaning! I was on it myself and continued to safely breastfeed since the medication is safe for babies.

Cinnamon - posted on 03/14/2012

Laura, I don't agree with a lot of what you're saying. What you are telling me is that the default thinking is that a bottle feeding Mom was lazy and selfish. Why do you jump to that conclusion first and not the thought that maybe that woman had problems that COULDN'T be overcome? You're also telling us how formula is inferior and wondering why we take it hard when we can't breastfeed, so I really just don't think you understand our point of view. Johnny I do not feel guilty, I did at first when I had to stop breastfeeding but let it go when I realized it wasn't my fault. For all those saying to let go and ignore the negativity, I've ignored the vast majority of such comments over the years and believe me this 1 comment did not cripple me, I merely was angry at that moment and thought others might be able to relate and I realized that being open about my feeling was actually helping a few people.



I will not divulge the details of my struggle, mostly because I don't feel anyone has the right to ask and it goes against the very nature of why I've continued in this discussion. One of the points was that bottle feeders should not have to justify themselves to others, just like long term breastfeeding Moms shouldn't have to. I did all I could, like all Mothers who put their children first, and I do not believe that there are so many selfish Moms out there as some seem to believe. Perhaps I'm naive but I like to give someone the benefit of the doubt first. Good luck all, I think this discussion may have run it's course and we're getting a bit away from the idea I started with so this will likely be my last post to it.

Jamie - posted on 03/13/2012

Ugh, this is so hard to hear. People need to mind their own business.



I don't know why mothers do this to each other. It's not like a stranger knows whether or not you've had a double mastectomy, dried up for whatever reason, or need to wean to take medication for PPD.



With that being said, I don't think it is right for a mother to judge another mother for her feeding choice for her baby- even if formula is her first choice. There are a lot of reasons a mother may decide this is best for her family.



I feel like a lot of the judgement I get for extended breastfeeding my children is a result of judgmental breastfeeders hurting so many mothers, and implying they were failing their children (which obviously they are not!)

Dawn - posted on 03/13/2012

My girl was 3 weeks early, and we both cried in frustration for a month. Then her pediatrician told me, "Some babies just don't know how to breastfeed, especially preemies. It's not your fault, so no guilt allowed." Her words were such a gift. After that, when people would question the "decision", I would simply tell them, "This works best for her and me."

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/13/2012

The lifelong differences is the human fed human milk will have their best chance of being as healthy as possible gïven the rest of their lives.

The formula fed human will have a slightly less good chance of being as healthy as they could have been given the rest of their lives.

The rest of their lives obviously plays a great part in the health of any human, but with a start off of formula they have a disadvantage of not being at their full potential.



No it's not always obvious.

Yes genetics play a big role.

Yes their lifestyle and choices play a big role.

But it is a difference.



Now as for the topic of judgement, people judge. This has been said. And you ask why people judge formula feeders? I think I said this already! Some moms choose formula for no reason except they don't feel like breastfeeding and this obviously upsets some moms who break their backs making sure their babies get breastmilk. So those moms make the proud and loud breastfeeding moms feel ma. this is where the judging comes in.

It's not 'right' but it happens.

And good moms who actually needed formula for their baby unfortunately get the judgement if it's not known or understood that they were doing what's in their baby's best interest when they gave formula.

Johnny - posted on 03/13/2012

Guilt is only for things we know we did wrong. If we did our best, we shouldn't have any guilt.



You are the only person who knows your reasons for taking the actions that you do. If you are feeling guilty about feeding formula, you must feel that you did something wrong. Whether or not that's fair to yourself, is often debatable. Women are champions of self-guilt over nothing.



That is not me making a judgment about others. That is a person making a judgment upon themselves.



And Pamela, I loved that book too.

Katherine - posted on 03/13/2012

LOVE the Four Agreements!

Pamela - posted on 03/13/2012

Did you ever try using a breast pump? You didn't say.



As for the rest of it, please read the book The 4 Agreements by don Miguel A. Ruiz. One of the most important things to learn in keeping other people's POISON (judgments of you) out of your life is the 2nd agreement. DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY!!!!!!!



It is a difficult thing to do because we have been taught by society to do just the opposite....let other people's poison in. The opinion of others is just that.....their opinion and nothing more. YOU are the one attaching importance to it. When you follow the 4 agreements stuff like this just slides right on by you and you are no longer bothered by other people's opinions!!!!!!!



Try it.....you'll like it!!!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/13/2012

Groovy girl, there really aren't any and any pediatrician or general practitioner wouldn't be able to tell the difference as lifestyle choices made later on as an older child and an adult will also take precedence over what your parent decided to feed you as a child.



I'm adopted and was formula fed. I have ADD which is genetic, a hyper active thyroid that was brought on by a hormone change at the end of my first pregnancy and hypertension which is also genetic. However I have no allergies or other issues. I have only been hospitalized due to my thyroid.



Honestly I only chose to breastfeed because it was economical and this time it was easier than the last time.

Groovy Girl - posted on 03/13/2012

Laura,

Cinnamon and I have both stated that we tried hard to breastfeeding. It didn't work. Our first choice was not bottle-feeding. Period. The thread was started, because of the ignorance of people who feel the need to constantly remind us that we have made an irresponsible choice. Just as you and others have done right on this very thread.

You say" Hold your head high and and let the judgements fall away". The point is WHY judge? Why assume that because a child is holding a bottle the mother must have been too lazy to whip her boob out and automatically have formula ready to go as opposed to preparing formula, sterilizing bottles,warming them up etc. Seems to me you have that backwards.

Johnny, you did the exact same thing as Laura at the end of your post

"You need to either deal with your guilt or figure out why you WOULDN'T make the right choice.



That is case and point right there.



Also, Laura, what are the lifelong differences of human who fed bottle-feeding compared to breastfeeding?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/13/2012

Laura, you said that the OP was whining about being judged. That's what I was refering to. And now I can't find the post which I'm refering to.



I don't know where you came up with the rest of your post because I was agreeing with you. Then I continued by stating that 10 years from now even a general practitioner won't be able to tell the difference between a breast fed child and a formula fed child and then using myself (an exclusively formula fed person) and my husband (an exclusively breast fed person) as examples.



Cinnamon is correct that sometimes even when someone is just asking a question it can come off as sounding judgemental without them meaning to. You don't get to pick and choose how someone takes a comment you make.

Laura Zoey - posted on 03/13/2012

Megan please do tell what 'whiny part' you're referring to?



"The rest of what Laura said (aside from the whiney part- that wasn't too nice) is true. In a few years no one can tell if a child was breast fed or bottle fed. I was bottle fed and I'm healthier than my husband who was breast fed. And we both have ADHD :) You could have us up at a general practitioner and he or she wouldn't be able to tell the difference. "



And I've disagreed with you before and I'll do it again, yes, there are lifelong differences between humans who were fed human milk vs formula. It's not blatantly obbious, and it's not the same for every person but there ARE risks associated with formula. But like Johnny said, it's far better then starving!



As for judgemental comments, yes they hurt. But if you know you're right you don't feel crippled by it. The sting hurts but if you're certain you did right you won't feel guilty or damaged by their ignorance.

I have to say Johnny is a great example. She's not scared to admit formula is inferior, but she is proud she did her best to breastfeed and when needed, formula filled in to keep her daughter healthy and growing well. If moms all held their heads high and knew they tried their hardest then I feel all the judgement issues would fall away. Fact is many moms formula feed for selfish reasons. Too much work, too painful, too tiring, too stressful, etc. they're not hurting their baby by choosing formula but they do have an edge to them that gets defensive fast because they know they made a selfish choice to not try as hard as possible to feed.

Then the moms who DID try their hardest and DID go as far as possible to feed get all this crap from people who assume they formula feed for selfish reasons.

It's a brutal cycle.

If every mom was able to know they tried their hardest to breastfeed then maybe all the judgers would forget why they judged anyways as we would all know that if formula was being used it was necessary. But it's the moms who don't want to give up alcohol, or drugs, or partying, or don't want to pump, or find nursing icky, or who can't be bothered to do night feelings that make the world look down on formula feeding moms. Assuming that their selfish when in reality, sometimes formula is needed and given out of the best interest of the child by a mom who did her hardest to feed but for whatever reason, couldn't entirely do it.





I'm not a formula hater. I just feel sad when moms act selfishly and put their kids second. Formula, when used correctly is IMO a great thing.

Cinnamon - posted on 03/13/2012

Johnny you make a good point, judgments are not necessarily cruel. However, and I hate to do this but I want to be accurate, judgmental is also defined as "characterized by a tendency to judge harshly" (Webster) and that is the conveyed meaning of this post. The judgment that I wish to correct that seems to come more from breastfeeding Moms is that because a woman is using a bottle she must never have breastfed. This is in fact very close to the comment I received indirectly from a family member that led to the post. Obviously just because you have a bottle in hand doesn't mean you know nothing about breastfeeding, I know only 1 woman who chose to go straight to formula, all the others I've met or spoken with have gone various lengths of time breastfeeding, and stopped for many reasons including medical conditions. Yes people judge without even realizing it, the difference here was the judgment was made in a harsh fashion and the source of the comment had no interest or "curiosity" in why I wasn't breastfeeding, it was said to make her feel superior and I consider that judgmental. Hope that clarifies my post.

Johnny - posted on 03/13/2012

There is a great valley between being judgmental and being unkind. They can go together, but not always. Not every judgment is negative nor unkind. If people are speaking unkindly towards you, that is different from them appearing to judge you or questioning your actions.



Megan, what your grandmother said to your mother may have been her judgement, but it was specifically and purposefully mean. However, someone wondering why someone else would choose to use formula is not really anywhere in the same ballpark.



I suppose I have just grown very weary of all this "don't judge me" crap. People can be curious, people can be cruel. I can understand if people are upset about specific, unkind comments directed at their choices, that hurts. But the general sense that people think choosing formula is not a good decision? Give me a break! You know you made the right choice for your child. If you don't know that, you either need to deal with your guilt or figure out why you wouldn't make the right choice for your child.

Cinnamon - posted on 03/13/2012

I'm seeing a recurring theme of "just ignore it" and for those who have said that you are 100% right, that's exactly what we are taught as kids and a skill all of us practice regularly. Of course I ignore all the negativity possible, but like others have said that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, especially when many of us receive these comments from those close to us. I do apologize if the breastfeeding Moms felt I was directing this at them, but the keyword here was "judgmental". Mostly I was hoping others could relate to my experience and perhaps we could come to a happier place together. After all, chances are if you're a member of this website or any other where parenting is the major focus, you're most likely just trying to be the best Mom you can. Good luck all.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 03/13/2012

All I was saying is that people judge. Laura claimed it can't hurt you if you feel you've done everything you should, but it can hurt you. Words can hurt people- isn't that what we tell our children? I never said anything about giving a damn about people saying stupid things when they don't know the whole story.



Trust me I know people judge every day. My grandma implied that my mom wasn't a good Christian wife because she couldn't get pregnant (even though it was because of my dad being sterile because of a high fever he'd had as a child that my grandma never treated) and kept telling her that if she prayed hard enough God would give her children of her own. You think that didn't hurt my mom? Even if she knew there was nothing she could have done. You think comments like that don't make someone hurt and angry even if they are confident in what they have done?



The rest of what Laura said (aside from the whiney part- that wasn't too nice) is true. In a few years no one can tell if a child was breast fed or bottle fed. I was bottle fed and I'm healthier than my husband who was breast fed. And we both have ADHD :) You could have us up at a general practitioner and he or she wouldn't be able to tell the difference.



We shouldn't judge each other, but it's a fact that we do. Lord you should've heard me going on about how bad Jessica Simpson looked on the Tonight Show last night. That jacket did nothing for her.

Johnny - posted on 03/13/2012

So what? Why should you care? People judge other people for a zillion things each day. I have little doubt that each person on this thread has judged someone today already. We judge people for the stupidest things. Their hairstyle, their clothers, their manner, the way they walk, how they drive, what they buy in the supermarket, what they eat in a restaurant, what kind of car they drive.....



If you are confident in your own decisions and reasons, why should it matter?



If you let it bother you, that is your choice. You also have the choice to ignore it and not let it be important.