Ladies, I need a quick poll of opinions: Shouldn't I still get paid to babysit on the days my little charge doesn't come?

Angela - posted on 03/20/2013

@ Shannon Bowers ….. OK – my original reply is on this page:

http://www.circleofmoms.com/welcome-to-c...

Please check it out before reading the rest of this post! I understand what you’re saying, Shannon, I understand 100%. Also what you say about the fees she’s charging are far too low.

Now, the fees she’s charging are low because the parents using her service are very likely low-income. This is the Catch-22 situation. She’s probably low-income herself as well. She can’t afford to lose the $25 dollars for one day when the child was ill. They can’t afford to pay it when the child was ill and they therefore weren’t needing her services. I doubt very much if either side of this arrangement are paying tax on money received for looking after children or claiming tax against earnings that had to be used for childminding expenses.

Just to repeat one phrase of what I said in my earlier post: “A childminder watches children like daycare – whilst parents go to work. A babysitter watches children whilst parents have a social life”. Lavender Bunny described herself as a “babysitter”. If you hire a teenager or a college student or an adult of ANY age to watch your children for $25 a night whilst you go out – on a social outing - and you regularly go out 4 times a week – this is a babysitter! And if you only go out 2 nights or 3 nights one week you don’t pay the babysitter for the nights he/she didn’t work!

Lavender described herself as a babysitter, not a childminder or a daycare provider – a BABYSITTER!! She did not state that she was registered, licensed or insured to care for children as a childminder, she did not state that she had child-proofed her home or wherever it is she looks after this child. If she WAS licensed/insured/registered as a childminder/daycare provider, I’m pretty certain she would have said so in her opening post. If she’d gone to the expense of child-proofing her home as the law requires, I know she would have mentioned that as well. The law does NOT require us to child-proof our homes for our own children, it only requires us to childproof the environment to protect the children of other people that pay us for looking after those very children. When you’re only charging a low fee, it’s for a reason. And as such you cannot expect to be paid either the full amount or a 50% retainer.

It comes down to money! When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. I have used a cheap source to look after my own kids when I was at work. Fortunately, they were looked after very well. I have also looked after other people’s children, cash-in-hand, again I supplied a decent service. Anytime I couldn’t look after those children (either because they were ill or because I had other commitments of my own) I didn’t get paid. Anytime I might have to stay at home and mind my own children myself (and therefore not send them to the lady that normally looked after them) – she didn’t get paid. It’s as simple as that!

My kids are all adults now. My husband and I are in our 50’s. He works for a global company and can be on paid sick leave for up to a year on full pay. I work for a small, private company and I’m not paid for the days I don’t work. If I was ill for more than a week, then I may claim a sickness benefit (which is lower than my salary) from the Government but NOT from my employer. Money makes the world go round!!

Shannon - posted on 03/19/2013

Let's get real for a brief moment: this mother didn't pay because she didn't want to or didn't feel like she had to, not because she didn't know better! I've been on both sides, as a babysitter/nanny and as a mother who uses babysitters. First of all, this lady is paying an exceptionally low rate, so the least she can do is pay out the $100/week, regardless of total hours! We payed our babysitter about $70-$80 every Friday for about 6-7 hours of care for our daughter PLUS added gas money and incidentals when she took our daughter out of the house. If a situation arose where we didn't need her due to illness/vacation, then we would offer her a different day where she could make up any lost pay. I was a nanny for over 3 years, so I dealt with any and all situations. The family that I worked for paid me well and treated me nicely. I also worked full time, so if the kid(s) were sick and I wasn't needed, I didn't mind taking some time for myself. Sometimes they would buffer my pay to make up for lost wages or I'd watch the kids overnight the following week to earn lost wages. None of this was in our original contract, it's simply common courtesy! Treat others as you'd like to be treated! Now, I have two little girls who are in preschool. Even if they miss an entire week of school due to illness, we still have to pay the same fees. The caretaker shouldn't be penalized for uncontrollable circumstances and most of us parents understand this. The exception would be an occasional babysitter. I don't believe in that instance that pay should be expected for services not used. With that said, LB is not an occasional sitter, but more like a part-time nanny. Good luck to you.....I definitely think you have a right to not only negotiate a better compromise, but you also really deserve better pay.

Ani - posted on 03/18/2013

Yes, and if you don't it is time to draw up an agreement that states you get paid even if she doesn't bring over the baby. You could easily be watching another child during that time.

Amy - posted on 03/17/2013

I pay half my weekly fee when my children arent at the childminder as a retainer so it keeps their space open. Its in the contract and keeps both of us happy. Introduce a contract. Verbal agreements often lead to a lot of trouble as i found out previouly

Samantha - posted on 03/17/2013

Don't rely on babysitting for ever because yeah its a good side job, but you also need that stability in your life. Where you can pay your bills and what ever else needs to get paid. Think of it that way. You asked for an opinion and I'm just simply giving one.

Ashley - posted on 03/15/2013

My kids are in a government run daycare and if they are sick i still pay. But it does state that in my contract that i signed. I'm also subsidized so i only pay a small fee everymonth for the two of them. They are allowed 32 days a year...whether that's sick or holidays. If i go over that then i have to pay full price ($ 66/day...i think i will make sure i DONT go over that lol) but anyways what i'm getting at is if it wasnt discussed with her i bet she doesnt even realize it. I dont think she shortened you to be a b**** she probably honestly thought that because he didnt go that day that she didnt have to pay. I'm kind of on the fence about this one. It is your job and you have to make a living too but at the same time you didnt work that day. If i dont work i dont get paid. It sucks but unfortunately its the way it works. Talk to her about it and maybe write up a new contract and have a few on hand. If you get a new child then you give the parent the contract.

Gwen - posted on 03/15/2013

NO.

Taymar - posted on 03/14/2013

Read Angela barker 's comment is completely right.

Gwen - posted on 03/12/2013

I have to pay my childcare provider the full rate every week, with 2 exceptions. 1) The week of her vacation and 2) One week off unpaid that I can choose, typically to take off work around Christmas (with 30 days notice).
So, I pay full price 50 weeks per year.
This is in my contract, and she claims all childcare income on her taxes.

Angela - posted on 03/11/2013

QUOTE: (from Jan Mol)

"if you are watching her child and claiming the income, not paying taxes on it and not providing her with a receipt that she can claim in her taxes then maybe a little lea way is in order"

Yes, 100% YES!!

This is the part that none of us have considered yet. It's a very valid point! If it's an informal, cash-in-hand arrangement, then you can't expect the official niceties that would accompany a more formal arrangement. And that's (no doubt) why you don't have a contract - OR why any contract you DID have wouldn't be of any value in real terms!

I have no idea what registered/licensed childminders (or daycare services run as businesses) charge in the USA (I'm British) but I bet it's more than $25 a day!

Cheap fees, a verbal agreement etc .... are all the hallmarks of the kind of set-up where you can't expect professional privileges!

Consider this scenario .....

In the UK, minimum wage is around £6 per hour. Mrs X, who isn't particularly wealthy, hires Mrs Y as her domestic cleaner. She only pays her £4 per hour. Mrs Y says "Hey! Minimum wage is £6 an hour - you should be paying me £6, not £4!" Mrs X says "OK - but I need your National Insurance Number - if we're observing statutory employment legislation ..... and I'll clear your wages through the Inland Revenue ...." So Mrs Y then has to start paying tax - and she's registered as unemployed anyway and claiming state benefits ..... Not really worth her while to quibble - she might lose her benefits - money she gets for NOT working!

If you continue to mind this woman's child, you need to make it clear to her that you wish to activate a 24 hour cancellation clause... or get paid regardless (as recommended by Salina Ulrickson in this thread). Of course, you DO realise that the first time she breaches this, she's pretty well NOT going to give you the money anyway - but then she knows that failing to pay you means she can't call on you for your services again! Presenting such a clause just MIGHT make her consider her manners and her responsibility towards people she depends on. Good luck!

Vanessa - posted on 03/11/2013

Hey no matter what, babysitter, nanny or caretaker, an understanding is an understanding. Come on ladies, a job is a job. If you agree to 100 per week, then that's what it is regardless.
I've used quite a few different types of caretakers for my children and without a doubt never renegotiated the deal after AGREEING to pay them weekly without discussing it with them first. That's just common sense. Perhaps this Mother just didn't know better and will hopefully learn from this experience. And you ought to kindly let her know what you expect in the future.

Jan - posted on 03/11/2013

Here it is generally accepted that when making Childcare arrangements you are paying for a spot not the time you actually use. If I hire a teenager to watch the kids from when I have to leave u til my husband gets home but he gets home early I still pay for the time I booked. Every formal liscenced, registered or unregistered Childcare I have ever used has been the same, I did have one that I didn't have to pay for missed days but that was her choice, the girls were sick and I tried to pay her anyway an she wouldn't accept it, I felt bad about that but she insisted, she was working for cash though at a very low rate because of that and I think that needs to be taken into account as well, if you are watching her child and not claiming the income, not paying taxes on it and not providing her with a receipt that she can claim in her taxes then maybe a little lea way is in order.

Serena - posted on 03/09/2013

If you have a set amount, yes you shoud be paid.

Salina - posted on 03/07/2013

I have been there, agreed to watch a child part-time only afternoons mon-thursday... It was great at first, then mom started callling the night before telling me, I wont need childcare tomorrow, thanks anyway.... then it started to be 2 days a week she would cancel, then it would be random days ect... in the end, she was only using my services one or 2 days a week... and it became that I assumed she would not need me unless she called, it got really frustrating... I would say, its not too late to get something set up... tell her you didnt realize the agreement had loopholes and you would like to make arrangements to rectify the situation to avoid anyone not feeling they are getting what they need and get something in writing, I highly recommend a 24 hour cancelation clause... or a get paid regardless clause... Good Luck

Dove - posted on 02/13/2013

I can see how you would assume you would be paid $100/week regardless of days worked and also how she would assume that she would only pay you for actual days worked. After this occurrence I would then assume the pay to be $25/day. If that isn't acceptable to you.... talk to her about it and see what happens. If that is acceptable to you... let it be and know what to expect next time. And definitely write up contracts for any future families, so that there are no more misunderstandings.

Jodi - posted on 02/12/2013

I wasn't angry Lavender, but thank your for the explanation. I never take these things too seriously.....I am generally just blunt and to the point ;) It's all good. No offence meant and none taken, not really. But I will say that we shouldn't take conversations from one thread and wind them into another, because I have seen that before and it never ends well.

And believe it or not, I probably used to think the way you do when I was younger, but many life experiences have taught me many realities. Ideology and reality are very different. So while I might agree that ideally, she should probably pay you in good faith, the reality is, she doesn't have to, and you shouldn't expect it, because it wasn't in the agreement. And generally, my responses will be the reality of the situation and not the ideology.

Shawnn - posted on 02/12/2013

Lavender, that was nicely stated

Janelle - posted on 02/12/2013

Hi Jodi,
I'm sorry for not checking in on the activity on this post sooner. Please please please understand that I meant no disrespect. I tried to stay as postitve as I possiable could and I have used no sarcasm but I genuinly mean "good luck in life". I see we are different and I'm okay with that. But I felt that no matter what I wrote you seem to respond with what comes across as anger. I do not mean to anger you or anyone else. I welcome everyones oppinion and that's why I asked but I don't feel obligated to agree. I am fine with people thinking I shouldn't get paid for the days she didn't use me as a sitter even though she asked me to reserve my time just as I am fine with no longer babysitting for this particular acquaintance. As for tieing it into the other thread, I'm sorry, I honestly thought you were charming and enjoyable because you were consistant. You're beliefs in the one thread were consistant with what I could expect from you in the other thread. Being consistant is a good thing. I truly didn't mean to insult you or anyone else. When I said you were funny, I actually meant it was a little funny to me in a way that gave me a little giggle not in a strange, something smells funny kind of funny. Again, I'm sorry. When I said "Good luck in life" I just meant "really good luck in life" as in may all good things come your way. May you stumble apon happy happinings. We dissagree but that's okay with me. Is it okay with you?

Angela - posted on 02/07/2013

To add to my previous comments, I must say in defence of Lavender Bunny that it would have been a courtesy for the lady whose child she was minding to inform her early on that the child was ill and wouldn't be needing her on any particular day.

Basically babysitting is "pin money" rather than a job. If Lavender is laying aside personal plans to keep herself free for babysitting duties, the child's mother should have taken this on board and realised that Lavender was depending on the earnings. Whilst it is very noble of Lavender to state that she would have still been willing to mind the boy whilst he was sick, this seems to smack of desperation to still earn some money! A sick child is better cared for in his own home environment and as someone else has said on here, you don't send a sick child to daycare!

Finally, if, as I said below she is not licensed/registered as a childminder/daycare provider and furthermore is not paying tax on those earnings, she is not in a position to quibble over days of earnings lost through the illness of the child she was supposed to be looking after.

Jodi - posted on 02/06/2013

Oh, I'm not worried about it Shawnn, it's just very annoying when people do this, and I figure sometimes they need to be told how very annoying it actually is :P

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/06/2013

Lavender, you clearly asked in your posts for peoples opinions. No one thinks you should get paid for days you don't watch this kid.

Shawnn - posted on 02/06/2013

Don't worry about it, Jodi, I could tell that this would be one of those "please tell me I'm totally right" threads...

You posted excellent advice, as usual, and have the knowledge base to back your post up.

Angela - posted on 02/06/2013

OK – here’s what happens in the UK. A childminder watches children like daycare – whilst parents go to work. A babysitter watches children whilst parents have a social life.

A childminder has the right to expect 50% of the fees for the days the child is absent that he/she would normally attend – THIS IS WRITTEN INTO THE CONTRACT. The family go away on holiday? Childminding service gets 50% of the normal fee for all the time they’re away.

A babysitter only gets paid for the work he/she actually DOES. In your post you described yourself as a “babysitter”.

And any childminder who provides daycare to children whilst parents are at work has to be REGISTERED or LICENSED. They must be insured in respect of the childminding they carry out (business insurance), and their home must be child-proofed with cooker guards, fireguards, safety covers for electric sockets, stairgates, childproof locks on any storage place for medicines, sharp blades, solvents, noxious chemicals etc … Childminders (unless they are close relatives of the child they’re minding) should have a Health & Safety statement, certificates to say they have had Food Handling & Hygiene training and various other types of training.

So if you have the appropriate licensing/registration, the correct insurance, credentials, qualifications, child safety features, etc …. in your home and in the service you provide, go ahead and ask for your other $25. If you DON’T have all of these, then you’re a babysitter, just like you said you were. A babysitter is paid for the time she works.

And if you DON’T have all of the above, don’t even THINK of drawing up any kind of contract. It’s not worth the paper it’s written on – and you could get into trouble.

Jodi - posted on 02/06/2013

"Good luck in life Jodi. I wish you all the best."

I am not sure why you have an issue with me, other than the fact I have disagreed with your opinion in a couple of threads, but it is really inappropriate of you to bring whatever your personal beef is, and comments obviously directed personally at me, into these threads. I'd actually thank you to stop. Fine, you don't like my opinion, but saying things like this is quite clearly only intended to incite a verbal war, and I am honestly not interested.

I appreciate you don't agree with me, I don't really care, I simply responded as honestly as I could. I always do. This is basic contract law. How about you go and read up on it if you won't take people's word for it instead of becoming snarky at those who don't agree with you?

Shawnn - posted on 02/06/2013

Ah, Lavender, you're wanting more than you deserve. You did not have the business sense to get an agreement in writing. The woman offered $100 for you to watch the child from Tuesday -Friday each week. That's 4 days for $100. By simple math, that works out to $25/day, thus if she kept the child home due to illness on one day, you did not perform any childcare duties that day (a "free" day off), so does not owe you for services that you did not perform.

Had you written a contract stating $100/WEEK, firm, you would have a leg to stand on, but since you did not, it is up for interpretation. You are upset because the woman gave you the same courtesy that she'd be expected to give a licensed caregiver, that being that she kept a contagious child home, rather than expose you and others to his illness. And, you apparently took offense to the fact that she trusts someone else to watch her child (A boyfriend that I did not know was available to watch her son)...Gee, perhaps the boyfriend saw that he could help his girlfriend out, so he arranged to watch the child...and you’re upset about that, why? Because you wouldn’t have agreed to watch the kid in the first place if you’d known that the boyfriend was “available”??? That part makes absolutely no sense.

Consider this a learning experience for a new business venture: When starting a business relationship, GET IT IN WRITING. This will prevent this particular instance from ever happening again.

Janelle - posted on 02/06/2013

Good luck in life Jodi. I wish you all the best.

Janelle - posted on 02/06/2013

Hi Little Miss,
Actually, she didn't say $100 for 4 days a week. She said $100 a week. That makes it worth it. And I don't actually run any kind of business. She approached me as an aquaintance. I don't mind loosing the money. And if she's going to look for ways to short me, its not worth me setting aside my time. I don't see how I missed your point, I just don't think it entirly applies to me and my situation. But thanks for you time.

Jodi - posted on 02/05/2013

I'm not quite sure how my input was funny.

"This is a perfect example of having learned how to manipulate the system/laws/rules in stead of actually doing the "right" thing. This, I believe is what "forced sharing" will lead to. "

And I'm not quite sure how this is manipulating the system, I agree that you are missing the point. It has nothing to do with forced sharing, so I am not sure (1) why you are bringing another thread into this one and (2) what it even has to do with forced sharing. Legislation is there to ensure that one party to a contract doesn't take advantage of another, and vice versa. It has absolutely nothing to do with forced sharing.

I guess that depends on whose shoes you are in. Who is to say you are in the right? That contract you have? So who is the manipulator here? It's all a matter of opinion as to who is manipulating the "system" really.


"I think the verbal agreement should have been enough but clearly this particular mom (who aproached me with the request of watching her child) grew up in a school that counted on the swings."

No, actually, this is about you thinking you are right. If you believe you are so right about this, why ask the question? Are you looking for validation? Because that's what it appears to be, when you start telling me my opinion is "funny". The fact is, if it isn't explicitly expressed in a contract, you don't have a leg to stand on. It has nothing to do with swings and playgrounds.

The FACT (as opposed to opinion) is you do NOT have a contract with her that she MUST pay even if her child isn't there. That's just a fact! Even verbally you did not agree to that EXPLICITLY. So don't start going on about the verbal contract being enough. You clearly didn't have an explicit verbal contract about this situation. If there is no legislation governing the matter (which it appears there isn't), and you have no written contract (which there isn't), unless you VERBALLY agreed to the specific condition, YOU have to suck it up. Absolutely NOTHING funny about it at all.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/05/2013

Oh, and one final thought. If you were a legitimate daycare that is licensed....maybe you could write that into your contract per family. But seriously, you are babysitting. Fat chance in that happening. If you watch the child, you get paid. That is how the babysitting world works. So, if that isn't working for you, figure out how to open a legitimate day care.

ETA: in my opinion no you should not get paid. You are not being paid salary you are being paid time worked.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/05/2013

"
But lets consider for a moment if you had gotten ready for work as usual, you're schedual was clear and time set aside and you're all ready to go to work then you boss calles and says "don't bother coming in, he/she doesn't need you today. But maybe tomorrow would be better".
Wouldn't you reconsider the need to look for another job? "

That is the risk of having a job that does not pay on salary. It has happened to me before. If it happened to frequently, yup.....you are damned straight I would be looking for a new job. So.....if this is your only income,....you may have to find another job.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/05/2013

You are entirely missing the point, and only want to hear that you deserve money you did not earn. You are completely entitled to make a legitimate contract with all new families, in fact I urge you to. That way everyone is on the same page, and understand that you need them to pay even when you are not watching their children. As far as she is concerned, she was going to pay you $100 dollars for 4 days. She did not say $100 for 3 or 2 days. So, I can completely understand why she only paid for the days there. Sooooooo to eliminate confusion, make up a contract with her. She doesn't like it, she can go elsewhere. You don't like losing the money, you may not be able to be so strict and expect to be paid for days you did not work for her.

Janelle - posted on 02/05/2013

Thank you ladies, for all your input I have definitely reached a peace about my decision.

Janelle - posted on 02/05/2013

Hey Jodi,
Thank you for you input. Please don't take this the wron way, I have nothing but respect for you but I thought your coment was a little funny:

"If you are employed, chances are you have a contract that dictates this, or a legislation under which you are working, which makes it an explicit condition that you can't do this. For instance, we have to give our casual staff at least 1 hour's notice if we don't need them, because that's what the law says. It isn't the same thing - you are not operating under a contract or legislation that mandates what to do in this situation."

This is a perfect example of having learned how to manipulate the system/laws/rules in stead of actually doing the "right" thing. This, I believe is what "forced sharing" will lead to. Its a way of life, and not necessarily wrong but not exactly how I would want to live. I totally respect your opinion and I'm glad to hear it. ;-) I think the verbal agreement should have been enough but clearly this particular mom (who aproached me with the request of watching her child) grew up in a school that counted on the swings.

Janelle - posted on 02/05/2013

Thanks Shawnteria.

Shawnteria - posted on 02/05/2013

Verbal or written an agreement is an agreement she gave you a set amount a week that she would pay so i dont think its right that she shorted you it was her decision to not bring her child to you even when you said you would still watch him that doesnt change the said agreement but like amy said if this is money you really need then you should have a talk with her so that she understands, negotiate. Because unfortunately you can break verbal agreements with no real consequences, so this time having her sign a contract would be good.

Jodi - posted on 02/04/2013

Yeah, you need a written contract, you can't just assume, you need to make something like this clear up front. It appears you have a verbal contract with her for $100 a week for 4 days, but she also has the right to assume that if it is only 3 days, it is $75. Somewhere here, it hasn't been clear as to what should happen if he is ill, or even if she takes leave from work and you don't have him for a week. All of these things are terms and conditions you need to make sure are explicit.

"But lets consider for a moment if you had gotten ready for work as usual, you're schedual was clear and time set aside and you're all ready to go to work then you boss calles and says "don't bother coming in, he/she doesn't need you today."

If you are employed, chances are you have a contract that dictates this, or a legislation under which you are working, which makes it an explicit condition that you can't do this. For instance, we have to give our casual staff at least 1 hour's notice if we don't need them, because that's what the law says. It isn't the same thing - you are not operating under a contract or legislation that mandates what to do in this situation.

In addition to this, when I had my kids in daycare, we were permitted up to 2 weeks per year where our kids could be absent and we wouldn't be charged for the days. So you can't just assume anything.

Janelle - posted on 02/04/2013

Hey little miss,
I could understand if I called her and said I couldn't watch her child because I was sick. Of course I wouldn't expect to get paid. But to ask me to watch her child Tuesday - Friday for $100 per week and then just decide to have her boyfriend watch him one day so she doesn't have to pay me as much even though I set aside my time, my home and made myself available for her child... that doesn't seem right. But your right, I realize we should have disscussed these things up front and maybe even signed contracts. Hmm, something to consider.

But lets consider for a moment if you had gotten ready for work as usual, you're schedual was clear and time set aside and you're all ready to go to work then you boss calles and says "don't bother coming in, he/she doesn't need you today. But maybe tomorrow would be better".
Wouldn't you reconsider the need to look for another job?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/04/2013

If you want it to be that way, you need to write it into the contract. Until then, don't expect money you did not earn. if I call into work, i don't get paid. I don't even get sick days.

Janelle - posted on 02/04/2013

Thanks Amy. That sounds like a reasonable plan.

Amy - posted on 02/04/2013

I pay for full-time care for my daughter even though 90% of the time she only goes four days. I still pay because I need my daycare provider to be available should I need to work 5 days during the week instead of working a weekend shift.

I would talk to her and let her know that you had assumed that you were getting paid regardless if the child was there or not, but because you misunderstood you want to clarify for the future. Explain to her that you depend on the money, see how she responds, I don't know how much you need this income if you don't need it then I would put it in writing going forward you get paid $100 regardless if her son is there or not, if you really need the money then maybe negotiate 1/2 day pay for those days her son is sick.