leaving a child to wait for the bus, Bad idea?

Kimberly - posted on 05/08/2012

Wow, Susan. It's a very good thing you were heading down the driveway. So hence my point about not taking any chances. What a story. And not very funny at all.

Susan - posted on 05/08/2012

I had an issue with my son at the time (9) and a neighbor child -at the time (7)
Almost being abducted!
Both had just got off the bus (the only two at the bus stop)
NO neighborhood and on a main street.
They had got off the bus and in the driveway was a man holding a piece of paper behind his car with the trunk open, asking them if they knew where this address was which was on the piece of paper he was holding.
Thank GOD, I was heading down our long driveway to take my sin to the dentist. The man got into his car and sped off with the trunk still open!
I of course was in shock and tears and didn't get a plate number.
I imediantly call the police and school.
I found out later that week the same car had been spotted at another bus stop.

Kimberly - posted on 05/08/2012

It doesn't hurt to have a discussion with your boss, and then go from there. Since you have family, maybe they can meet your kids at the bus stop or pick them up from your home and take them to school for you in the wintertime. There are all kinds of options. Leaving your kids alone isn't the only one.

Renae - posted on 05/08/2012

When I grew up we waiting at the bus stop by ourselves all the time, all the way through high school until we bought a car of our own. I am 56 years old and have three grown children. When my children were bus age instead of having them wait at a bus stop (I live in a subdivision that of the 100+ residences only 8 of us are year round and none with school age the same as mine) I dropped them off at school and if I was not available to pick them up after school had them take the bus to a friends house or had a neighbor pick them up (had to be on the list to be picked up by someone other than parent) and deliver them to my house. Unfortunate that this is the world we live in but with all the child abuse and kidnapping out there I would either drop them at a neighbors going to same school or drop them at school. My children were the first ones there but they made it safe and sound.

Shawnn - posted on 05/08/2012

In this day and age, saying that "your work is better to accommodate than to lose you"...Yeah, right. Budget reductions left and right, ALL jobs are pretty much at will any more, are YOU going to walk into your boss and demand a schedule change, Miriam?

Maureen - posted on 05/08/2012

It sounds to me as if they would be the only 2 waiting at the stop so I would suggest that you talk a family that would be on your way to work that you could maybe drop them off with to wait for the bus in the morning. I have been in the same situation from time to time and i take my son who is the only child at his bus stop and drop him at one of the other stops where there are several kids so he is not all alone.

Tabitha - posted on 05/08/2012

She may not have the option of giving her employer that type of ultimatum. She still has bills to pay.

Just talk to your boss to see what options they'll allow and go from there. If they aren't flexible with what you need. Look at other options, working with the school, getting to know your neighbors, meeting the bus at an earlier location, can you drop them off at school or do they have to ride the bus?

Kimberly - posted on 05/08/2012

Great post, Miriam! I completely agree.

Miriam - posted on 05/08/2012

it isn't just about safety..which it is..you don't know what someone will do..approach them, or even if they do something themselves that is unknowingly unsafe, but this is a great bonding time for you and them. Just those 10 minutes with them will be remembered by them...my kids , now much older, still remember how much they liked having me there for them when getting on or off the bus. If they are your world , you can tell work you will be 10 minutes late, but will take 10 minutes off of your lunch ..or stay later. Its better for them to accomodate you than lose you. Doesn't matter where you live btw. I am all for letting kids have independence..but give them the tools to do so and wait til they are older. these Bus moments are sweet..hate to see you miss out on them. ....just my experience and two cents...:)

Hannah - posted on 05/08/2012

I personally think its kind of silly that you will send them to school for a day be themselves but they can't wait at a bus stop with other kids and mom's for 10 mins. I personally am not going to send my 5 year old off by himself for school, homeschool! But, ask a neighbor mother to keep a eye on them for 10 mins,you have all summer to get to know them.

Kimberly - posted on 05/08/2012

Once upon a time, a long time ago, small towns would be safe with unlocked cars and doors. Not any more. Not in this day and age. It may seem "safe" but you wouldn't want to take any chances where your children are concerned. I know that there are maps you can look up for any registered sex offenders, but there are a lot out there that are not registered, and can pose as the kindest most sincere people. Seek out a family member that can help you out. Or make an arrangement with your job. It's only 10 minutes, but it takes seconds to grab a child.

Linda - posted on 05/08/2012

My son started walking to school in the second grade. It definitely depends on the kid, but the whole helicopter parent thing is getting out of hand. If you want to be on the cautious side get the 9 year old a cell phone, there are pay as you go plans out there for as little as $20 for 3 months. Are there any other kids that take the bus too? The buddy system is always a good plan. Despite what the media will say, kids are safer today then ever. The whole amber alert- it use to be that a kid had to be missing for 48 hours before they would file a report.

Kim - posted on 05/08/2012

I would not feel comfortable doing that. I walk my kids to the bus stop which I can not see from my house because I want to make sure they get on it ok, not hear 2 hrs later from the school because they did not arrive. Also what is the law in your area? Here they can't be left alone until 12, but they do allow latch key 9 year olds. No way would a 9 yo watching a 5 yo work. I won't allow my 12 yo son watch my 5 yo for me to run to the end of the street to the bus stop, but he is immature. And I don't feel comfortable letting my 9 yo watch my 5 yo either.

And for those saying safety is the same. When we were younger most Mothers were home. A child could run to any house if need be. Moms watched out for all the kids in the neighborhood. Who is home in your area to watch your children? I have problems since I am the only one usually home for my kids. The other parents work and now that their kids are older let them get off the bus alone. They know I'm around but I don't have that. Even when they were younger, if the parents were late, I'm the one they would call.

Tabitha - posted on 05/08/2012

I stopped dropping my kids at the bus stop 2 years ago and started taking them. We had some problems with bullies while waiting for the bus. But that's in town and there's about 10-15 kids at each stop. If we were in a rural area, I wouldn't be uncomfortable with it. But if you're not sure, check with the schools to see about before/after school care. Another option would be seeing if a bus can pick them up at your job or get to know your neighbors to see if they can do pick up at one house and drop off at the other, there's safety in numbers. Either way, as long as you are comfortable with your arrangements, I wouldn't worry about how anyone else feels about it.

Mary - posted on 05/08/2012

I don't think it's bad parenting it's just not wise in my opinion. they could be gone before you even got to work and you wouldn't know until the school called you??? We live in a Rural area and I didn't let my kids get on the bus alone until the youngest was in 7th grade. Then I still watched every day.

Kim - posted on 05/08/2012

It's just not worth the chance! Maybe they'd be just fine. But could you live with yourself if that one in a million chance that they'd be hurt happened! I laid my 4month old baby down to nap in my bed, went to pump milk for 15 minutes, when I went to check on him, he had squirmed and got his head stuck between the headboard. He went home to jesus a week later. I had so many people tell me they all laid their babies down to nap in their beds, and while it brought some comfort to know I made a choice that lots if other people have for centuries, it won't bring my baby back! I can tell you from experience it's never ok to take a chance with your babies lives!

Cassandra - posted on 05/08/2012

I think That would be just fine. My ten year old waits for the school bus without me (with her friend) a couple of times a week.

Shawnn - posted on 05/08/2012

@ Melanie...Who are you referring to? If it's me, let me know...I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have

Allison - posted on 05/08/2012

I think it is entirely your choice. If you feel your kids are responsible enough and know the ground rules that you set for them then it's okay. Ultimately, you have to do whatever you are comfortable with. However, if you are asking for advice I can't help but feel that you aren't comfortable with this situation. Talk to your boss and tell him/her what the situation is. Hopefully they are willing to let you come in a little later so you can see your children on the bus safely.

Melanie - posted on 05/08/2012

Are you high? Do u watch the news AT ALL? Figure something out before we see your children on the next episode of Nancy Grace. Please!!

Shawnn - posted on 05/08/2012

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/s...



The search page for the National Center for missing and exploited children.



The page for VT only had 5 on it. The page for Wyoming had 7, of those, 3 were technically adults when reported missing/run away. 2 that were kidnapped by their mother. One that was either kidnapped, or ran off at 16, and one in Casper at the age of 14, but I wouldn't live in Casper, let alone walk alone MYSELF, much less my kids.



For the state of NY, there are 114 listed.



The point here is that these rampant child abductions that are mentioned are being blown way out of proportion.



It sounds to me like Cara is in a very good area, rural as it is!

Toni - posted on 05/08/2012

Hi Cara, I ran into the same situation with my children. They are now 13 & 9. I have the bigger one put his little brother on the bus and we live in a building complex with other parents who are waiting for the school bus. I waited until I felt my older son was responsible enough to put his brother on the bus. I would not feel comfortable leaving for work every morning without adult supervision. Wait until they get a little older before leaving them alone to wait for the bus. Look at the Etan Patz Case.

Terri - posted on 05/08/2012

Ask the school if they have before care there. Some school offer a breakfast program and some YMCA's or other local places offer before care. I would not leave my children alone at the bus stop but I am an overprotective kind of mom. I too walked to school when I was 7 years old with my younger sister but times are different and we are more aware. Best of luck.

Shawnn - posted on 05/08/2012

So, Cara, are YOU ok with your decision? Because, honey, if you are, then you are fine!



No, having kids those ages wait for the bus by themselves is NOT neglect, nor abuse, and honestly, I agree with you. The scare tactics are just that...scare tactics. Jaycee Dugard, Elizabeth Smart...both cute young ladies, both kidnapped, one out of her own house! So, what do you do, put bars on the windows and get paranoid? Nah, you teach your kids how to handle things.



Your original post sounded as if you were maybe uncomfortable with the situation, but your latest sounds like maybe you weren't uncomfortable until someone else suggested that you should be.



Well, if you're comfortable with the situation, go for it! Like I said, my kids took care of their bus needs by themselves at those ages.

Melissa - posted on 05/08/2012

Is there a before-school program at your school? Personally, I would not leave my children alone to meet the bus....you NEVER, EVER know what might happen.....you are smart to start planning for next year...I am sure you will solve this problem :)
Good Luck!!!!

AmBuer - posted on 05/08/2012

I don't think I would do it. I would try to arrange something with work to start 15 mins later and stay 15 mins later. Anything can happen in 5 mins, and although your 9 yearold may be able to do it, they shouldn't have to be responsible for a 5 year old. If you feel comfortable with them being alone for 10 minutes, then go for it with ground rules. I know for my piece of mind I wouldn't do it. But then again I am basing this off of my almost 9 year old who has tourettes and ocd. You are their mom, only you know if this is a responsibility they can handle. If you do choose to do this, just make sure they know the saftey rules, what to do when a stranger drives up, or whatever scenarios. And giving them a key, or hiding a key for them would be a good idea. Good Luck!

Erin - posted on 05/08/2012

To judge form the national news, you'd think it was weird and unusual for people to be nice to each other sometimes! I wouldn't assume times are any more dangerous or child predators any more common now than they used to be.

However, I would definitely check on whether your school system is kosher with you leaving the 5-year-old. Especially for drop-off--kindergarteners here are supposed to be met by an adult. Otherwise, I really think it's up to you. You know your kids, the place they'll be standing, and so on.

If you can't leave them, can you drop them off directly at school or at a bus-stop with other kids elsewhere along your way? Find a daycare where they can go for 10 minutes a day just for the bus stop? It sucks when your employer can't be flexible.

Teri - posted on 05/08/2012

I wouldn't leave them either. I have a stepdaughter who is 14 and I still wouldn't leave my 7 yr. old with her. Some people take advantage of situations like this, when they notice there isn't an adult around :(

BARBARA - posted on 05/08/2012

No, there are no houses around and there are weirdos out at all hours.

Cara - posted on 05/08/2012

there is NO daycare in our town and No homecare providers in fact when we recently moved here I got a flyer stating there is a emergency need for childcare in our town. You see I live in what is called the islands of VT it's very secluded. and I live in the farthest of the towns in the islands. They are in after school care at the school so that is no issue it's just the morning that causes a issue for me. There is nothing or nobody to help. Everyone in the town is in the same rut as me. I see kids all over the islands on my way to work waiting for the bus and No parents are to be seen. Some very young as young as pre k I can tell. The houses are spread out that there is NO bus stops the bus stops at the houses of the kids. I mean like I said before there is 50 kids in the entire school preschool thru 8th grade. There is No high school. Kids get to pick any school in the state to go to for high school. This isn't boston or Atlanta it's the Champlain Islands of VT. Sorry if I sound a little annoyed but I kind of am. Some people are going a little bit to the extreme. I mean just to clarify.......it's 1 out of 1.3 billion chance that a child can be abducted and Like I tell my pt's going into surgery under general your at a much high rick to get into a fatal care accident then you are dying. The same goes for kids and abductions. The thing I believe......TV is the cause to our problems do you think that when we were young these things weren't going on YES Yes they were only difference we didn't have the internet that updated with every news story every sec and the news wasn't covered with rapes etc. The were more hush hush. Plus you weren't inside on the computer or watching tv you were enjoying life, thriving in it, and making the most out of what you had. Parents are scared because of torture movies,and shows like CSI and many others. It makes you really think but what are the odds. People aren't scaring me your only scaring yourself and sheltering your children beyond believe. I let my kids play outside on my 3 acres of land. Do I check on them very regularly of course a constant yell of there name and them hollering back lets me know they are ok. I don't feel I'm being unreasonable by my "thoughts" to leave them alone for 10 min. Kids do need some independence but I've never left them alone w/o me close by so this is why I'm asking for opinions. I don't need to be reminded how Bad or society is. I live in it I see it, hear it etc. Thanks for all the people who have given kind good opinions.

Janette - posted on 05/08/2012

As an employer and mom....I always try to keep a good employee...TALK TO YOUR BOSS!! They can often help somehow...

Courtney - posted on 05/08/2012

I would NEVER leave my children to wait for the bus. even when they are teenagers i'll be a few feet away watching until they get on the bus....the world isnt a safe place anymore

Dawn - posted on 05/08/2012

Is there another bus stop close by with other children there that picks up earlier than the one closest to your house? Maybe one 10 minutes down the road on your way to work? Check with the school transportation dept. They may be able to help you out! work something out Good luck.

Monica - posted on 05/08/2012

I definitely would not. In this world we live in now u can't even let them walk ten feet. What about an after school program.. where u can leave them as early as 6am at the school then let them take bus home or have them stay in program til 5 . That's exactly what I did for my kids find out from ur school if they offer such a program

Lena - posted on 05/08/2012

I personally wouldn't but I also have no trust in strangers. People are sick and two little kids standing alone at the bus stop is prime target for some psycho

Taylar - posted on 05/08/2012

My dad farmed my mom was a cop i lived in s town pop 400! I walked myself to bus at age 8 and at 11 i walked my siblings with me. My mom gave me a prepaid phone and it had 4 impt numbers in it!!! Now i wont let my 8 year old because he is very unresponsible and i dont trust him..... I dont think its a bad choice if your child is responsible and as long as younger one knows they must obey. But thats just my opinoion and i may olny feel this way but everyone is raised diff so im sure you will get negative posts however whatever feels right to you as a mom as THEIR mom is what you should do.

Tracy - posted on 05/08/2012

We lived in a small town when my son was young. I do agree with Laurie Hopkins that if you are already uncomfortable with it, maybe it's not a good idea this school year. Overall though, I think if you trust your kids not to get into trouble or wander off, especially if they are fighting, then it's ok to let them be there alone in your small town. If you aren't comfortable with it, maybe you can speak to your boss about a 10 minute (or so) variance in your schedule? Maybe spend the summer time with mock tests to see how the kids do for bits of time on their own at the stop when you can be nearby to see how things go. That's what I did to teach my son not to open the door for people. He was like 3 and we talked about it a lot and then I would tell him I was going outside of the apartment and not to open the door for anyone. I would stand there quietly for several minutes and then knock or ring the bell. If he opened the door, we spoke about how mommy has a key and he is NOT to open the door for anyone. He would holler out "who is it" and I wouldn't answer and see if he would open the door. Within a few weeks of practicing this, he had it down pat and I couldn't fool him. I would go sit on the steps outside for like 15 minutes and then knock and he would ignore it. (I should explain we had worries about his bio father appearing and my son opening the door for him - or any stranger, but the concept applies to teaching your kids about any new big responsibility such as the bus stop)

Crystal - posted on 05/08/2012

Take them to school on your way to work. Check with the school and make sure teachers or other faculty will be there at that time and where they go before class starts (usually the gym or lunch room).

Shawnn - posted on 05/08/2012

If you are already unsure about it, then re-arrange your work schedule to fit the kids bus schedule.

Personally? My kids walked 2 blocks to the bus, and waited for up to 15 minutes a day at those ages, so I don't see a problem. Especially if you're in a smaller area. Get to know your neighbors. You'll feel better.

Naomie - posted on 05/08/2012

Karenda and Elfrieda are both right. Some children can be protected if they stick together and yes, it is a learning lesson and teaches them responsibility, and besides when one is attacked, the other one can yell out for help! However, Louise also has a great point! Pedophiles have all sorts of tricks up their sleeves and one of them is creating confidence with their victims. Picture this..... On the first day, he will stand next to them and pretend he is waiting for something. The second day, he will begin asking simple questions like "are you feeling cold or the bus seems to be late today"! Now, the children will have remembered him from the previous day so the apprehension will not be so much. The following day, he may come up with another story and soon he will build their trust and they will be sort of freer with him! Eventually, and they are patient psychos, he will wait for a cold day and offer to drop them to school and that could be unfortunately the end of a normal childhood for them or another twist could emerge and it could end up tragic or unhappy for you!
Not that I intend to scare you but in every situation there are pros and cons but if your boss intends for you to be a productive worker then he/she should be reasonable enough to allow you to be late a few minutes as long as you maintain the same time allowance each day, as in if you agree that it will be 10 minutes late or half an hour, then it should not exceed that until you sort yourself. As a mother I always say, family comes first and no job is worth the risk or is too serious that I should compromise their safety or my sanity. Think of the psychological impact on yourself also. As Louise put it you could not be settled at work not knowing if they are OK or not! After all you said it yourself, they are your world and nothing should crash that! Jobs come and go, but not our children!

Pam - posted on 05/08/2012

I would not leave them alone. Maybe if the nine year old was older. I have a 14 and a 8 year old. So he watches her for about 5mins. Can u talk with your boss and tell them your situation?

Karenda - posted on 05/08/2012

A child is more likely to be hurt in a car accident or a bike accident than abducted, but I'm betting none of you would give up driving with your kids or allowing them to learn to ride a bike. I think you need to be realistic about the real risks of the situation. Find ways to minimize those risks, then allow your kids to surprise you with how responsible they can be given the chance.

Ellyn - posted on 05/08/2012

I married into a family with a convicted pedophile so I know what his thought process was as he committed his crimes, as well of many of his fellow inmates as he shared his reports with his family. The thing to know with predators if that some of them aren't random attacks. They can see a kid or a group of children and will monitor the schedule for said kids. And a group of kids doesn't always offer protection. They can threaten the entire group, and if they have any kind of weapon even a child taught not to believe strangers threats (i.e. I'll hurt your mom/dad) will be cowed. And given your remoteness, if something were to happen would their screaming even be heard? Predators can also validate themselves by saying the parents, and therefore children, deserve it for not watching their kids closer. Kids without parental supervision are easy targets just as a lone woman would be late at night.

Is your nine year old mature enough to watch for the bus and lock up behind them? If that's the case, I would give them a set of keys and have them wait in the house until the bus arrives, and then make sure the bus driver knows this so they don't just drive by without stopping when they don't see them. Do you have two cell phones? Not that I approve of talking on the cell phone while driving, but maybe you could stay on the phone with your kids the entire time you're away from them. At least then you'd know right away if something were to happen rather than finding out at the end of the day, and if someone were to come you'd possibly be able to get their license plate and/or a description of the person, plus I figure you'd be doing a U-ey and driving at the speed of light to get back to them. You could even keep a third cell in your car (getting ridiculous now am I?) and use it for emergency purposes for 911 only.

As for saying that there is too much hype with predators, we KNOW they're out there. If you have the ability to reduce the chances of something like that happen to your kid then DO it.

Jill - posted on 05/08/2012

I'll leave the kidnapping debates to others. I wanted to tell you that I was the only adult at the bus stop in our neighborhood, so I can tell you - when there is no adult present, kids get up to mischief. Even well typically behaved ones are not immune, particularly if you throw in other kids from other families.

Most of the parents had to work, like you. So their kids would be out there alone. It would take a long time to type everything I had to handle. Usually my say-so was enough to control the situation, but I did have to call a parent once (a single boy) and the school once (a pair of siblings). I also confiscated a pack of matches and a pocket knife.

Someone needs to keep an eye on kids that are hanging around by a street corner.
It would be good to get to know your neighbors. At the bus stop here, I know the neighbors on two corners - older women - watch the kids at the stop from their windows.

Depending on your district, the 5 year old might not be allowed to use the bus without an adult present. You'll want to check on that.

Robin Jane - posted on 05/08/2012

Hi Cara,
Personally , I would rather be late for work everyday than leave my kids alone for even 5 minutes.
It isn`t the best thing for them to be overprotected, I know that.
But when I overprotect my kids I kind of try not to let them know it.
For example , I stiull walk my 9 year old son to and from school everyday, I use the excuse that I need the excersice so he won`t think I am actually just over protecting him. Which is really why I am walking him to and fro...
If you wait with them , just tell them that you have a few minutes extra before you have to be at work...something like that.
I know work is important, and being late is a major faux pas with all jobs. But I really think the laws have to change to make it easier for parents to only start work after the kids have been dropped off safely....lol...
I would highly recommend to never let them out of your sight for a second , anything can happen within that time frame. Protect them at all costs, Too many crazy people lurcking around, especially in places that are wide open like farm lands, there may not be alot of people driving around those areas, but around areas like that there also isn`t many witnesses around.
Being late for work ,is a small price to pay for the safety of the kids.
I am not saying I am the best Mother in the world, but when I went through the same thing, It ended up that it was just better for me to put my carreer on hold, get a regular job working the graveyard shift, just to be there in the day to get my kids off to school and to pick them up after school.
3 years later I still haven`t continued to work in my profession , because my kids still need me around.
And that is ok , they are worth more than the money I would have been making. lol
Please don`t leave them alone. thanks xxoo take care

Robyn - posted on 05/08/2012

def not!....im sorry but the first thought that came to my head (after reading almost all reply's) is...home invasion!!..we may say "it wont happen to me"..or "that wont happen in my town"....but it does ...and it might....a 16 year old cant fight off big men or a "group" of invaders...how could a 9 or 5 year old do that....however there was one response that i agreed with and thought was worth a try...there has got to be parents that drive by yr place..(or in the area), that may help...with transport, bus stop monitoring or even as a before and after school sitter so u can safely leave yr children to go to work...im very sorry if i scared u with the thought of home invasion, but id rather see that yr scared, rather than heartbroken!!!....good luck, i hope yr town/school can come up with a solution that might help other parents in simular situations!!...ALL OUR BEST TO U AND YR FAMILY ♥

Janice - posted on 05/08/2012

I think if the kids can stand in the door way of your home and wait for the bus then 10 minutes is no big deal.

Cara - posted on 05/08/2012

Thanks for everyone's opinions. I take them all into consideration. I do have one thing to add that they are not at a bus stop they get picked up in our front yard. So they have access to my house until the bus does arrive or our barn. My 5 year old is sometimes more responsible then my 9 year old alothough he would do anything to protect her. There are kids all over my town waiting for the bus some really young and alone. I live in a community where there are NO Joke 50 kids in the school grade prek-8th. When I say small I mean small. That's why I'm so torn. There are No daycare in the town at all the closest is about 25 min away in another town and the bus doesn't pick up for our school there. I checked with the school becasue I though they must serve breakfast I can bring them earlier. but no the soonest kids can arrive is 7:50. I have even pondered starting my own daycare. I agree/disagree I do feel the media plays a huge part in the fear the has now instilled in us. There were sexual predotors in my day when I was kid you just didn't hear about it as much so it wasn't much of a fear, however people have gone a little crazier I think Movies help put a play into that! I walked to school about 4 bloacks when I was 5 then I took the bus when I moved to another town. I was always left alone with my sister & brother and I was the oldest. It's a very tough dicision and I'm glad I have the summer to come up with something.

Terri - posted on 05/08/2012

Don't leave your children alone standing on the side of the road, that does not even sound right does it. Talk to the school, you might discover that one of the cars passing them is actually going to the school to drip their children off. You could offer to pay for gas. You can drive them to another place where more children can wait together, but if the bus does not arrive you have a whole new problem. Adjust your work hours or find a new job that works, you could get paid to transport children, it sounds like your community needs that. Always put your children first, it is your first and only important job

Shannon - posted on 05/08/2012

There has got to be a better solution. I would NOT do it. Bad things occur for two reasons: 1. someone wants to do something bad 2. they are given an opportunity. Another thing, it is probably illegal because the child has to be 12 where I live.