Parents bullied by child protection agency.

Lianne - posted on 03/31/2010

I agree. If they wish to impose so many rules and regulations on parents, maybe they should take children away at birth and raise them themselves. I have 3 beautiful children, who at times, test me. Certain punishments are a last resort. I dont use soap to control foul language, but English mustard - neither of which will harm a child. I have had enough of other people telling me how I should raise my children and I bet there are a lot of parents out there who feel the same. Instead of wasting time with nonsense issues, maybe these government agencies should be looking out for those children who are REALLY being abused. How many in Australia alone have gone under the radar and then you have wasted resources checking up on soap? go figure.

Kassia - posted on 03/31/2010

I dont know if this has already been said, I didnt feel like reading all 300+ comments. But by the time the child is 3 they mostlikely have gotten soap in their mouths while bathing. So the parent would already know if the child was allergic. I have and would use this method on my children. It's not like I am pouring the whole bottle down their throat, or shoving the bar in their mouth and holding it. I do realize that there are some parents out there that are clueless when it comes to punishment. We all learn by trial and error. But then on the other hand you do have the parents that are abusive, and do things cause that is what they had done to them. I personally do not thnik that soap in the mouth falls under that catagory.



Mom of three

Jaclyn - posted on 03/31/2010

Wow, this is a heated issue! I had this done once to me as a child because I used fowl language. I can see where both sides are coming from on this argument. I've been bullied from Arkansas CPS when I was a new resident there. (I moved back to WA)

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

@ Denise, Are you saying that a parent who chooses to spank their child for correction is wrong? Are you saying that those children will treat their parents bad because of it when they are older? If so, I have to say I strongly disagree!

I am a home schooling mother of 4. I have also had a hand in raising my 15 year old brother-in-law. I disciplined him and my kids with spankings, threat of spankings, and groundings (depending on the age). Many times all I have to do is give a look and my kids know I mean business. I have very obedient kids. I get complimented on my kids all the time when we are out in public. I am not saying that I am perfect or that my kids are but every time I take them out, ppl make it a point to tell me how well my kids behave.

My brother-in-law, when he was 4, his mother asked him why he preferred me over her and he said because I spank him. My cousin when she was young was asked one time by her aunt why she liked her better, and again she said because she spanked her. Another aunt of mine asked her daughter when she was 5, if she were the mother, what would she do different and the 5 yr old said, "not give me so many chances and just spank me the 1st time".

Out of the mouths of babes! The reality is that if you treat your children as your best friends - they will grow up with no respect for you.

But when you discipline in love, they KNOW they are loved. I love my mother for the way she raised me. I know she loves me and took care of me and I will be there to care for her when she needs me. (And YES, I was spanked!)

Let me clarify that I do not agree with spanking when you are angry or with any object other than your hand.

Spanking is not usually my last resort in discipline however! I strongly believe that if you got up off your butt, walked over to the child the 1st time you told them not too and spanked them, then the problem would be solved. If your kids know that the word, NO, means No and will accompany a spanking if they disobey, then they will choose to obey the first time. Then there is no need for time out!

As for the parentalrights.org being an anti government organization, you need to read up more on it more. They are just trying to continue with the laws that are already in place. Our constitution has laws that if we ratify a bill with the UNCRC's laws will supersede our laws. Therefore, it doesn't matter what our laws are here in this country anymore. What would be law is what they are deciding at the UNCRC.

I do not agree with their decisions.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Children who grow up with no discipline or responsibilities think they are entitled to what ever they want. I have 5 children who are very responsible because they had chores to do, animals to feed. They had activities at church, were in 4-H and school activities. Give a child chores and he/she will feel better about themselves. It will give them pride and self confidence. You don't need sports to give self-confidence.

Kandace - posted on 03/31/2010

i totally agree we have alot of harrassment from social agencies going on in my area .... dont get me wrong there are ALOT of people in this area that do have issues that need to be addressed but then there are some that are just friends with the wrong people until they piss them off some way and then its an all out battle to see who can get the others kids taken away first. its absolutely sick .... i am very fortunate to not have had them interfere with my household but i def. get concerned when my 3 year old repeats words that he shouldnt or phrases that i have used to control his behaviour ... an example being ... im going to smack ur bum now i dont beat my children and until recently the threat worked ,.... UNTIL he started saying ok me do it and now smacks his own bum or his dad and i will be yelling to each other from different levels to be heard and hell go and smack who evers bum is on the level with him and say no yelling at my mommy/ daddy. but kids will be kids and hes 3 what do u expect

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Michal,

Let's separate abuse and molesting. Abuse may be prevalent in foster but molesting is also known to happen in families. I've seen it and I know of it because it happened to me. I've seen fathers, step-fathers, uncles, cousins molest a family member and too many times it's covered up.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Michal,
I read the story you posted and it states that her husband killed her and then turned the gun on himself. And, yes she was a staunch warrior as the piece says for child rights and against the abuses of Children's Services as we call it in the state I live in.

Amber - posted on 03/31/2010

@ Janette..I agree with the second part of your comment, but the part about "innocent" parents is callous. Nobody is saying that abused children should not be rescued, of course they should. But do you really think that the whole investigative process is healthy for children in a loving home? All we're saying is that when someone knowingly makes a false report, they should be prosecuted. Sometimes well-meaning people call and are wrong, but too often it is done out of spite. If anyone maliciously making a false report had to pay the piper, not only would it deter them from harming innocent families, but the system would have more resources to pursue legitmate cases.

Tracey - posted on 03/31/2010

What an interesting subject. I speak from the point of view of a parent of 4 and also an abuse survivor. You would think I might be completely against discipline seeing as it was twisted beyond all recognition in our house and no I'm not speaking as a disgruntled child here either. I remember my father throwing my cousin through the patio screen door because he spoke back to his mother...good thing the glass was open.



I raised my three older children with a definate sense of right and wrong. They don't bully or make fun of someone with any malice in mind and they have stood up for others that were being harassed. My oldest is currently in university on the way to becoming a lawyer, the second is going to be a doctor and the third wants to be an architect. I spanked them if they needed it. I took their toys away if they needed it. I grounded them to their rooms if they needed it and when my oldest came home from school one day and told me that I couldn't yell at her or punish her for doing something wrong I cracked up laughing. Told her that nothing was going to change and if she didn't like it she could call cpa and I'd help her pack her stuff. Considering that I had just had them throw out the majority of their toys for not cleaning up when they were told to...she believed me and decided to not go down that road. Too many parents are afraid to punish for fear the neighbours will say something...get over it. There is a definate difference between spanking for discipline and beating the crap out of your kid and the "experts" that compare the two make me see red. If you weren't abused then you have no idea what you are talking about to say that spanking is bad hands down. BTW my kids were always complemented on their behaviour and we were always welcome where ever we went. Of course now I'm starting on the adventure all over again and I just hope I remember how to do it. My husband and I have very similar ways of thinking when it comes to disciplining our son so we hope he'll turn out the same as his sisters and brother but only time will tell.



People will always push their views on others with the help of the government because they feel they have a right to pry. Perhaps someday we'll learn but I won't be holding my breath

Melanie - posted on 03/31/2010

Soap in the mouth didn't work for me, as a child it just made me aware not to use foul language around adults and I still swear now when I'm not around my children. I have a 3 year old son who has occasionally sworn and I can get him to stop with my words and threats but I would like to ask, what do you do when that stops working? I guess kids will eventually swear if that's want they want to do, no amount of soap, thinking chair or beating will stop that. Seriously though if anyone can tell me, please do.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

spelling bad in a few places. forgive.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Well, CPS people say those words so they won't be beating down your door. And just a thought here, most kids here those words at home or school and really don't know what they mean. My daughter came home from school with F word and had no clue as to what she was saying. When I explained to her basically what it meant she felt very bad.

Yolanda - posted on 03/31/2010

thanx. did I mention that my son is going to be 14, on the swim team, plays basketball, snow boards and is well adjusted. He is also in ALL honors classes as well as on honor roll. I love him with all my heart. He got swatted with the belt when he was little because he went in to someone's apt we did not know. He NEVER did it again. If he wanted to plat right next door he asked permission. Kids need direction. There was a little girl that was from another country who used the worst fowl words I had ever heard, she also came to my door at 10pm to play with my son....where was CPS then ?????

Lynda - posted on 03/31/2010

For goodness sake have none of you had a toddler that sits in the bath and tries to eat the soap for fun!!!

Carla - posted on 03/31/2010

What ppl dont seem to understand is ALOT of ppl use CPS as a weapon o im mad at this one let me call on them and so on.. Putting soap in any childs mouth is not ok nor is spanking a child.. Think about it you get upset you spank your child hello you just showed them its ok to spank (hit) when their upset. Like smacking a childs hands for touching sissors why not try explaing to them why they shouldnt touch them all they see is mommy using them no body stops to relaize a 3yr old has only been on the earth for 3yrs how much do you think they should know.. We as parents are here to teach them right from wrong... If they are continuing to show neagative behavior then maybe something is going on and when you have excausted all avenues talked to the pedi ext maybe its something the parent is doing lilke not sticking to a consistant set of rules and structure.. Children of all ages need structure and consistancy... FYI 3-5 is a pretty tough age there is no terrible 2's its horrible 3's LOL.. Remember every action causes a reaction.. Some parents need to stop and think if there always negative saying NO jonny dont do that or sit still have you ever stopped and said gzz have i ever just gave my kid positive praise like Jonny good job listening.. Kids love POSITIVE PRAISE but if all they here is negtive sometimes they look for it becuase thats what they know will get them attetion..

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Yolanda, I liked the way you put that "there WILL be a punishment not far BEHIND." LOL.

Yolanda - posted on 03/31/2010

I absolutely agree with u. I got spanked, once by the neighbor of my Grandma! My husband got spanked, and guess what my son has been spanked. When my child does something wrong he knows there WILL be a punishment not far behind :)

Oh other parents say he is one of the most polite children ever. Peple tell him all the time he has good manners. NOW WHAT ? I'm old school and that's just how it is!

All this BS about not spanking is for the birds, half them kids are slinging drugs and sittin on their asses playin games, oh and knockin up peoples daughters so the tax payers can support them. Girls not respecting their bodies cuz no one kicked then in it when they were younger.

I say hell yea to a good spaking!!!! and AMEN

Emily - posted on 03/31/2010

I don't think anyone here is saying you should NOT discipline your child. Just because a parent chooses not to spank or use soap in the mouth does not mean they don't give their kids rules, let them do whatever they want when they want it, etc.

Lauren - posted on 03/31/2010

Giving a child the taste of soap in their mouth is not degrading. Every child is different and as a parent, you should use YOUR best judgement when teaching and/or disciplining your child. I've heard of people using spicy foods to "burn out" the bad words.



I am a first time mom, and even though my little guy is only a few months old, I am trying hard not to coddle him. Kids are smart and resilient. If you condition them to believe that they shouldn't be punished when they continually disobey, then you are in for a rude awakening when they get to the teenage years. Conversely, if you condition them to take their lumps and learn from their punishments, you will end up with a more responsible and well-behaved child.

Denise - posted on 03/31/2010

Someone asked if I was a "young mother"? I am 33 and have a 2 1/2 year old who obeys the rules we set for her -- we are extremely strict with her so that she will not be a spoiled brat. But that being said, we do it with time outs, taking away little privileges, and making the consequences fit the infractions. We make it clear how she should behave, we warn her when she is out of line, and we take appropriate action if she chooses not to listen. But I try very heard not to discipline from a place of anger or frustration (I say try because no one is perfect.) I ask myself the question "what is she learning from this?" and "does this make her a better person?" I expect her to respect others including her parents, teachers, etc. and she does.

I work with kids all the time of a great variety of ages and you have to do what is appropriate for that child's age and demeanor. What is effective for one child may not be for his or her sibling or someone of the same age. Taking away TV would be dire for one kid and for another it might be of no consequence...

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

I know the system isn't perfect. None of them is. I worked for one of them and had to quit. too much politics. But that doesn't mean that since it isn't perfect that abuse should be foisted on some innocent parent.

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

That's awful, Kerry. My family is lucky to live in a state where there is a law requiring reporting of bullying incidents, and a county with a robust anti-bullying policy, and an elementary (about age 5 through 10) school with a year-round bullying awareness project that's won awards. My kids know how to identify bullying, report it, and even intervene effectively in some cases. They're taught about healthy relationships and those that are abusive. They're taught empathy (i.e. thinking how words or actions will affect others, imagining how others feel, etc.). And the school administrators and teachers are very supportive and aware. I can't imagine the school seeing my child bullied and deciding his parents are to blame. That's ghastly!

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

The reason I say you need an attorney, it is for the sake of your child.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Kerry,
You need an attorney and now.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Maybe I'm too old for the new stuff. I did spank and would again. My children have said they did not suffer from spanking. I did as one of my children why they were so good. She said it was the look I gave them so I guess that counts for something. Looks don't hurt.

KERRY - posted on 03/31/2010

I have a problem! My son is undergoing core assessment with social services because the child protection at his school decided he was abused. She spent several months following him around bombarding her with questions and when he stated that he was not abused, but happy at home and the only abuse he received was from school bullies that the school refused to deal with (and i backed him on this) I was suddenly the bad guy and the school and social services closed ranks to say bullying did not occur EVEN THOUGH I HAVE LOGGED EVIDENCE SUCH AS MY SONE BEING BEATEN AND HELD AT KNIFE POINT! They have twisted the situation to punish me for speaking out against the bullying. I rang FASO and they said they hear 1000s of cases like this mostly from my area in the UK

KERRY - posted on 03/31/2010

I have a problem! My son is undergoing core assessment with social services because the child protection at his school decided he was abused. She spent several months following him around bombarding her with questions and when he stated that he was not abused, but happy at home and the only abuse he received was from school bullies that the school refused to deal with (and i backed him on this) I was suddenly the bad guy and the school and social services closed ranks to say bullying did not occur EVEN THOUGH I HAVE LOGGED EVIDENCE SUCH AS MY SONE BEING BEATEN AND HELD AT KNIFE POINT! They have twisted the situation to punish me for speaking out against the bullying. I rang FASO and they said they hear 1000s of cases like this mostly from my area in the UK

Emily - posted on 03/31/2010

Barb, if they go beyond the "3," then they are not implementing the technique correctly, so of course it won't work. And yes, consistency is the key with anything, including CORRECT implementation of time-outs.

Janette - posted on 03/31/2010

I know the system isn't perfect. Neither are we. If we were, there wouldn't be any abuse or neglect.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

This is more that a few inconveniences to more than a few parents. A child taken away for any amount of time is traumatic and they (agency) need to make sure of accusations before that is done. Too many times a child has been taken from parents and the parents are branded as abusers. It is with them the rest of their lives. I wouldn't want the inconvience to on my head. Easy to say when it's not you.

Janette - posted on 03/31/2010

I would much rather inconvenience a few "innocent" parents with a visit from Child Services, than have them miss even one child who's being abused or neglected. They are required to respond to each and every report, whether it's valid or not. Nobody likes to be accused of anything, but I have seen too many abusive or neglectful parents get away with their behavior because people were afraid to report. The results of their abuse and/or neglect on their children are sad and sometimes deadly.

Denise - posted on 03/31/2010

I re-posted to be more clear and the whole thing about respect -- that isn't aimed at one person, but to everyone -- on all sides of this whole thing.

Mary - posted on 03/31/2010

I put a bar of soap on my son's tongue when he was about 7 yrs old. That evening I was watching the news. A child about my son's age got the same punishment that my son had received earlier in the day and died because of an allergic reaction. Yes, soap is old skool. Yes, it works. But sadly, YES, there can be harmful, FATAL side efects. Was this a fluke? Probably. Did my son ever get soap again? You bet your ass he didn't. Teaching your child a lesson or disciplining your child should not run the risk of life threatening dangers, regardless of whether they worked for you in the past or not. Our children's lives ae not a game of russian rulette.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Right on, Denise, the UN and the Rights of Children. Read it and you will find out what ours and other governments want for YOUR child.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Have not read the book 1,2,3. Is this a thing were you count and they are supposed to do what you want? If so, what a crock. I say that because I've seen parents do this and they go beyond the 3. I find it a joke. Is that what this book is about? Children need real discipline. They need to know you mean what you say and that doesn't have to include spanking. Consistency is the key. REALLY!! Not one way this time an another way the next time.

Denise - posted on 03/31/2010

Please do your own research if you decide to visit any of these anti-government websites that keep being touted. Read the real laws and UN Convention on the Rights of the Child for yourself and make your own judgments.

And no matter where you fall on the whole discipline thing -- I hope that when you are old and need care your children treat you with the same love and respect you give to them now.

Barb - posted on 03/31/2010

Hope, I certainly am not shouting at you or berating you. It was just a comment so please do not feel I was beating up on you. Ok? Friends?

Emily - posted on 03/31/2010

Britney: as do I. I was just pointing out that the way you described time-outs is not correct. Perhaps you have been told wrong, but of course time-outs are not going to work if you implement them the way you described.

Mallory - posted on 03/31/2010

I find it very sad the CPs came out over this. I have had CPS at my house when my sister decided to scold her 3 year old with hot water becuase she pooped in her pants. When they came, they told me as long as there are no secound or thrid degree burns there is nothing they can do. They shouldn't be wasting their time on allagations like this, when people like my sister still have coustody of there children.

Britney - posted on 03/31/2010

Amen Brenda. This thread is getting ridiculous, everyone is just posting the same thing over and over. you're either on one side of the fence or the other. Who cares? Nobody really knows how any of our home lives are just by discussing one topic. Nobody is changing their mind by reading this. Those of us that swat our kids butts once in awhile to get a point across are "abusers" blah blah blah. "I'm glad you're not my parent" blah blahbity blah... It's just too funny to read some of these posts! We all should band together and save the kids that need saving instead of venting on a message board, or decide to mind our business and not fix what doesn't need fixing. I'm done, peace out.

Michal - posted on 03/31/2010

For the record, we don't do the soap in mouth disciplining either. We do utilize time outs and taking away privileges such as watching favorite show on tv.

But What ticks me off is the way CPS handles things. They have way to much power. Children belong to the parents and the Creator, and the so-called community needs to butt out. Out of billions of parents there are some bad apples, that upon being caught should pay the piper to the full extent of the law. However,that's a fraction not the norm. Our unalienable rights should not be compromised because of it!

Punzelina - posted on 03/31/2010

No amount of wall posts or emails can equal person to person interaction. There is no possible way that anyone on this site can truly know what kind of family atmosphere one has or the way they discipline. We have a very peaceful atmosphere in our home, but you could never know that unless you were there. To call one swat on the bottom "abuse" is a bit absurd. I do not abuse my sons, and if anything, we are very gentle with both of them. They do get disciplined, however, and both of them are VERY secure. Like I said, all kids are different, even within the same family. What works for one child, may not work for another. Hopefully each parent can see what their children need and meet those needs to the health and benefit of their child.

Britney - posted on 03/31/2010

Emily, No thanks... Time outs are bull-crap. And there must be different ways to do time-outs because I'm not the only one that has been told to do it that way. I don't have to turn to self-help books to learn how to raise a child. I use my mothers instinct and love.

Natalie - posted on 03/31/2010

I wanted to clarify something regarding the OP. The child in question regarding CPS, that child's age is not mentioned. The OP referenced getting responses regarding a 3yo child with behavioral problems, then Laura went on to reference a email she got regarding parents who were approached by CPS because of using soap in their child's mouth. 2 different children were referenced. The first was 3, the second child(which this whole conversation has been about) that childs age was never mentioned.



That being said, I have never used soap in my son's mouth. I do not believe CPS should be called if you are a parent that does believe in that discipline.

Punzelina - posted on 03/31/2010

I am sure that when I am older that my kids will care for me with the same respect that I am caring for them and I will love it!

I have a 16 year old and a 20 month old. Both are very well-behaved and they get complimented constantly! That behavior didn't come on accident, it came with loving discipline, family respect, and constistency.... and dedication!

Laurie - posted on 03/31/2010

well my son is 2 i have never hit him or soaped his mouth but he is well behaved a stern voice goes a long way



i do not respect anyone who soaps mouths or dishes out abuse as a way to discipline their child i agree with the fact our parenting styles are different but i for one am glad you are not my parent

Emily - posted on 03/31/2010

Britney, that is absolutely not how "time outs" work. Read the book 1,2,3 Magic for the accurate way of how to implement time outs.

Elizabeth - posted on 03/31/2010

Love the quote!!!! It's so true.

Elizabeth - posted on 03/31/2010

I remember that when I was little we had a family services person came into our home to check on the care of my youngest brother. They had requested that our immediate family be in the home when this visit took place. My mum and dad had absolutely nothing to fear as they were/are terrific parents. But they were still scared because of the possibilities that are always there. You have someone who doesn't know a situation coming into your home and judging you and your family. I think that when ANYone feels that their parenting decisions and methods are in question, they get defensive. I try really hard not do anything that could be mis-interpreted as "bad". Unfortunately I did not get my point across in this email. I think that if parents could use a normal amount of dicipline, society may end up in a better place than it is right now. Kids shooting and stabbing each other! As parents we are only allowed to go so far interferring with our children's privacy. Then we get all the blame when they do something wrong. I've just been having a really hard time with this lately. My 2 kids are great and I cannot complain that they don't listen, do their homework, are polite, and compassionate. But one day they could do something terrible and all the blame will be put on "the parents" actually the mother. We always get the bad rap!