Parents bullied by child protection agency.

[deleted account] ( 312 moms have responded )

I've been getting much feedback from my response to a mother who has a 3yr old son who is out of control at times and the mom was at her wits end with what to do about it.

Many people responded to her plea for help, including me. This morning a received an email from a mother who had a government agency at her doorstep for using soap when her own child used fowl language. I have two VERY big issues with this.
First, when did soap in the mouth become abuse. Yes, it tastes bad but soap is not the first place a parent goes when dealing with foul language. It is usually the LAST resort threat to an ongoing list of behavior changes (parents often don't realize how much THEY swear until their child reaches parrot age).

Second, WTF does a government child protection agency think is ILLEGAL about soap in the mouth! I challenge this ALL THE WAY! We have a job as parents to RAISE OUR CHILDREN! No one said that was easy. WE have to fight against a society that teaches children to DISrespect authority, their bodies, and their friends.

I am appalled that there are people out there using government power to push their views on others ( I bet the person who sent people to this woman's house didn't like soap in her mouth when she/he was a child). If agencies want to pursue God fearing parents who want to raise their children to be productive members of society and not parents who don't care what their children do then the system will collapse. Until these government agencies PAY to RAISE my child they can butt out! If I have to fight in court I will.

It's about time ALL parents band together and stand up to abusive government agencies! It is because of them that we have an entire group of moms pulling their hair out because they don't know what to do with their unruly children. I feel for this woman because she now lives in FEAR when having to handle discipline issues and correcting bad behavior!

We as circle of moms should ban together whenever we hear of such abuses! We are not just moms, we are lawyers, doctors, social workers, etc. Let us all support and protect each other when it's needed!

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Julie - posted on 03/31/2010

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Michal,

Yes, I agree. In a previous post, I stated that I don't like the idea of CPS being the parenting police.

There are children who need to be rescued who are in real danger. I don't agree with many of the ways CPS goes about their business, but I sure would like to see them actually protect some children who need it and stay out of the way of parents who like manyl of us and are doing the best we can to find our way through this imperfect science of being a parent.

Michal - posted on 03/31/2010

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You know Jennifer, because an approach like this parents are concerned about disciplining their children.

There is already too much intrusion.

Just because there is a fraction of parents going mad, doesn't mean the overwhelming majority needs to be treated as possible criminals.

The two cases you mentioned are out of how many parents? billions? Most parents do NOT hurt their children.

Time to put things into perspective. Most abuse and molesting cases happen in foster care! Did you even read Senator Nancy Schaefer's report about CPS corruption?!

http://fightcps.com/pdf/TheCorruptBusine...

Sam - posted on 03/31/2010

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children shud b punished how the parents want to punish their children. if the child/children are being abused then cps shud b called but if a child is swearing and you cant stop them saying it your last resort wud b to wash their mouth out. as it is not nice having to walk in to nursary to pick your child up to find out your child has been swearing at staff and children. me and my brother both had our mouth washed out wen we was 5/6, i have not needed to do so with my children and hope it stays like it.

Julie - posted on 03/31/2010

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Lissa,



I thought about that as far a soap in the mouth. They could breathe it in or swallow it. Even adult toothpaste is not recommended for small tykes. I caught my four year old last night literally sucking down his Thomas the train toothpaste.

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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I don't think we've really necessarily heard the entire story on the soap issue. We don't know how much was used, we don't know how often it happens, we don't know what measures had been taken to address the cursing previously, we don't know who called CPS or why, and we don't know if there was any other/any abuse to the child at all. (If there had been, it's likely that that would have been the issue, not the soap.)

I'm not sure I would fly off the handle here about government intrusion into our lives. For heaven's sake, most CPS agencies don't protect children enough. In the DC area, a woman adopted three children, then strangled two of them to death and put them in her freezer. And kept collecting checks. And abusing the third. She even moved several counties away at one point, moving the freezer with her. She only was found out because the poor survivor escaped through a window and ran down the street in her skivvies. Neighbors rescued her and called the cops. The woman got life. Where the hell was CPS then? I think we could use a little more intrusion, sometimes. Another woman in DC strangled all four of her kids and literally left them to rot in their bedrooms for months and months. Where was CPS? They apparently visited and were told the kids weren't home. That was it. Neighbors complained of the smell.

I think that on balance, we might try to err on the side of the kids.

Jeannie - posted on 03/31/2010

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i know exactly what u mean. here where i live theyre called dyfs and once they come to ure house thats it, theyre like a pitbull w/ a bone theyre always on u for the least little thing. u cant spank ure child w/out them there, but if ure child gets into trouble when theyre older then its ure fault and ure a bad parenet, but what can u do if u cant punish ure child. i just dont understand the govt. we got whipped when we were small and it didnt kill us. an old fashioned spanking never hurt anyone as far as i can tell. im still alive and beleive u me i got my ass tore up lots of time for dumb stuff i did.

Michal - posted on 03/31/2010

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You ladies are obfuscating the topic here, this isn't about how you would discipline your children, but about CPS attempt to put themselves above due process and abuse their power.
This is just the tip of the iceberg!
Like I said before, There is heavy corruption with CPS.
Here's a report written by Senator Nancy Schaefer about the corruption of CPS: http://fightcps.com/pdf/TheCorruptBusine...
Her recommendations for making things better were:
1. Call for an independent audit of the Department of Family and Children’s Services
(DFCS) to expose corruption and fraud.
2. Activate immediate change. Every day that passes means more families and children
are subject to being held hostage.
3. End the financial incentives that separate families.
4. Grant to parents their rights in writing.
5. Mandate a search for family members to be given the opportunity to adopt their
own relatives.
6. Mandate a jury trial where every piece of evidence is presented before removing a
child from his or her parents.
7. Require a warrant or a positive emergency circumstance before removing children from their parents. (Judge Arthur G. Christean, Utah Bar Journal, January, 1997 reported that “except in emergency circumstances, including the need for immediate medical care, require warrants upon affidavits of probable cause before entry upon private property is permitted for the forcible removal of children from their parents.”)
8. Uphold the laws when someone fabricates or presents false evidence. If a parent
alleges fraud, hold a hearing with the right to discovery of all evidence.

And by the way - someone wanted to shut her up: she was murdered on Saturday, March 27, 2010.
http://www.infowars.com/cps-warrior-nanc...

:(

Julie - posted on 03/31/2010

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I have adult children, tweens, and also young step children. I have never been afraid to discipline as long as I know I am doing it to guide them. They respond and my grown children have thanked me for the guidance. My daughter is a mother now and it is such a joy to see that she is a fantastic mother who is not afraid to guide her own strong willed precious daughter and give her consequences to teach her. I am so proud of her and of all my children. They respect authority and are kind to others.



Young mothers, please don't be afraid to discipline your children keeping in mind that it is about showing them right from wrong, not dishing out cruelty. Trust your instincts. Guidance and discipline are ways of showing your child that you care about the direction they are taking and preparing them for the world so that they can navigate it successfully and live a fulfilling life in a society that respects those who know how to love and respect themselves and others.

Melissa - posted on 03/31/2010

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Ok this whole thing with soap in the mouth it's not like their shoving the whole darn bar in their and making the child eat it!A little taste of is not going to kill your child,I'm sure if you made them swallow like half a bar or something then maybe it could have some effects.Honestly though my mom used a lil in my mouth and I eventually learned if I don't want to have a taste like that in my mouth I'm gonna think twice before swearing.Hey guess what me,my 2 sisters and bro are still alive imagine that!!!!!!

[deleted account]

Has anyone heard of Time-out or taking something away that they love??? How would u like it if you cussed in front of me and I washed your mouth out with soap ??A drop or a whole bar? Kids aren't thinking... I better not say that word again because its bad, But Mom/Dad with wash my mouth out.....You lose the point!! It's ashame when your child fears you!!! Also, Its Unhealthy physically & mentally.

Lissa - posted on 03/31/2010

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Heads up, My Father used it on my brother and he couldn't help but swallow as he was crying and ended up in the hospital. Tell me you read the ingredients and feel like soap is safe.

JamieLeigh - posted on 03/31/2010

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They aren't making their child swallow it! Omg. Read woman. It's worked for years. Would you rather us do this, or let our children swear constantly. For SOME children it's the only thing that works.

Amber - posted on 03/31/2010

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I've seen several posts stating that "If you're not doing anything wrong then you won't have anything to worry about." Please. The only people with nothing to worry about if protective services is called are people with a well paid lawyer.
I agree that they are needed to protect abused children, but at least in Florida, so many children are killed after abuse has been reported while others are taken with no proof of the allegations.
I do have personal experience with false allegations being made by women who were angry at me for reasons having nothing to do with my children's welfare. On each occasion I spent time and energy that I was already short on proving the allegations false. The last one was about five years ago (I've since learned the personality type to look out for and avoid.) The allegations in that case were so outragious that the case worker was laughing about it during my home inspection. Even in a clearly false, easily disproved case NOTHING was done to punish the person making the false report. We need to overhaul our laws so that serious investigation is done to find out who is making malicious reports and enforce the laws stringently. Being ripped from their loving parents is abuse too.

Lissa - posted on 03/31/2010

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Before subjecting your child to the 'soap torture" understand that the ingredients in most soap today can poison your child.

Shana - posted on 03/31/2010

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I know from experience that CPS doesn't do it's job. My mother was an abusive drunk. She thought nothing of punching me in the face and busting my lip. Do you know what CPS told me when I finally had the nerve to call them? And I quote word for word, "You can only push a mother so far." Should they investigate reports of abuse? Yes! Is soaping a child's mouth abusive? Personally, I don't think so.



Parents should be allowed to raise their kids the way they deem fit, within reason. Some children do not respond to timeouts or toys being taken away. You have to find a method that is not abusive and works for your child.



I wish more parents would take the time to try and correct their child's behaviour instead of trying to be their friend or the "cool parent." Too many times I've seen kids yell, scream, hit, and abuse their parents. And all those parents have done is say "Now Timmy, we don't really want to talk like that, do we?"



My oldest daughter, 10, had been bullied and harrassed at school by students who's parents don't set boundaries or rules. There are kids in her class that are allowed to watch The Family Guy, don't have bedtimes, or rules on language. How is that any less abusive? You are setting you child up for failure. It is our job as parents to help our children become healthy, independent, contributing citizens of this world.



Do most of you know that corporal punishment is legal in 21 states and still used in as many as 13? But does anyone do anything about that?



I think moms should be coming together to help each other, not knocking each other down. You shouldn't be afraid to discipline your child because of somebody else's beliefs.

JamieLeigh - posted on 03/31/2010

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Some of you are just plain hateful.



She's not making her child ingest soap. The majority of kids are gonna rush to spit it out and rinse their mouths. I've never heard of a child dying from having a little soap in their mouth. I wouldn't do it to my 3 year old because right now when she swears, she's only mocking me and I dont want to punish her for that. But if she willingly swears on her own when she's a couple years older, hell yea, I'm gonna use soap. It's worked for generations. Our grandparents did it to our parents.

Patti - posted on 03/31/2010

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Wow, Laura, I am on your side! If you look at our society in generations, it certainly has declined in regards to respect and responsible behavior. WHY? Not alot of parents take the time to punish their children, and I am not talking about abuse. Abuse and neglect happen over a period of time, not one incident. Children need to learn right from wrong and boundaries. Putting soap in a child's mouth is not abuse, but a form of punishment. Now if the parent put Comet on a regular basis in this child's mouth and it resulted in burns, poisioning or death-then it is abuse. A little swat on the hand or butt is punishment, but the parent that beats a child repeatedly and leaves bruises or breaks bones, that is abuse. Of course both of those scenarios (soap in mouth or a swat) should be used as a last resort, but it works. Love and punishment can go along way and they go hand in hand. People need to get a grip and know the difference between the two. As long as a parent sits down after the fact and has a talk with the child and lets them know they are still loved, it should be no problem.

Julie - posted on 03/31/2010

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Child Protective Services is for children who are suffering and need to be rescued from their situation.Sadly, there are many children who endure dire circumstances and their only hope of improving their world is if a responsible adult steps in and initiates their rescue. My personal opinion is that I would not want a government agency to become the parenting police. There are enough children with more urgent needs for protection to have the agency policing and playing Dr. Phil.



As parents, we should set an example of how we want our children to speak and act. Monkey see, monkey do. We are their greatest influence while they are young and best to have shown them what's important before they reach their teens. Respect for authority, consideration for others, taking responsibility for one's own actions and it's not all about me me me would make a huge impact on how they behave when they are making their own choices.

Jo - posted on 03/31/2010

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You can't stand up tp Child Protective. They believe every Mother is Guilty of either Abuse or Neglect. You can't act defensive. You have to throw yourself at their mercy, act like the victim of your child. Encourage their advice and their assistance and befriend them otherwise they will destroy you. Cry and act humble and meek and appreciative of their time. They love that. otherwise, prepare for the fight of your life.

Alicia - posted on 03/31/2010

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It was a bunch of half truths that were spun to the negative. That my son (who was born with developmental delays due to a birth defect) had delays due to neglect. That I slept all day and my kids had to fend for themselves (I would nap when they did). That I would strap my son down so he couldn't move ( he had arm bands to prevent him from getting to his face after surgery to fix his cleft lip/palate, given to us by his Dr.). And the list went on and on.
All I know is, there are cases out there where there is plenty of proof and they don't do much, if anything at all. Then I have to jump through hoops (like counseling and parenting classes) when I had done nothing wrong.

Angeline - posted on 03/31/2010

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Paula- BTW your situations is one of the big reason why Maine does not have laws against spanking. Parents and workers had to be able to keep both the parent and older, bigger child, safe and sometimes that did mean physical interventions but mostly just threats from the Mom to protect herself. The Mom did not want to put her child in an institution, as he had other development issues. The main goal was to keep Mom and child as safe as possible but keep them together.

Julie - posted on 03/31/2010

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Child Protective Services is for children who are suffering and need to be rescued from their situation.Sadly, there are many children who endure dire circumstances and their only hope of improving their world is if a responsible adult steps in and initiates their rescue. My personal opinion is that I would not want a government agency to become the parenting police. There are enough children with more urgent needs for protection to have the agency policing and playing Dr. Phil.



As parents, we should set an example of how we want our children to speak and act. Monkey see, monkey do. We are their greatest influence while they are young and best to have shown them what's important before they reach their teens. Respect for authority, consideration for others, taking responsibility for one's own actions and it's not all about me me me would make a huge impact on how they behave when they are making their own choices.

Serena - posted on 03/31/2010

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I have not read all the posts here, but I have read some. I have been there in a positions where I didn't know what to do with my son. He was talking back, trying bad words, ect.... you name it he did it. So I talked to his doctor I told him what was going on and he gave me his opinon of what method would be the best to use. I asked him about soap, and I was told that it is against the to law ( at least in CO) to put any thing unedible in your childs mouth "with force" or with out. Now when I say "with force" I mean your child obvously does not want to have soap in his/her mouth and is not willing to go in and do it himself/herself. I do not mean holding him/her down, having someone help ect. (although that is not a good idea either, and is a whole nother conversation) Anything that is edible is exceptable. Hot sauce, a food they don't care for, ect.... I found that when they get the taste of some they do not like in there mouth and can associate it with bad behavior that is generally enough. But you can't make them then turn around and eat that for dinner as well, then they think they are being punished all the time and for no reason and the behavior gets worse. Each kid is different and each parent is different and it is up to us as parents to do whats right by our kids. We were all raised differently and it doesnt mean that one of us is more productive, or a better citizen because of the way we were disciplined when being raised. Weather we were spanked or not we all had choices when we came into our teenage years that helped in big way make us who we are today. And we (most of us) had to make those decions on our own or with friends. But when I in perticular was faced with those choices I didnt see the discipline in my head, I herd moms voice instead. And so I think it is very important not only to have in place a disciline that works for you in your family, but also talk to your kids when you are not angry so they remeber what you are saying and why. Thats in the long run is what is going to matter. Can the kids take what I have told them and use it in there lives to help make them work in "the real world"? Because we are not raising kids, we are all raising adults.

Alicia - posted on 03/31/2010

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I had CPS called on me for neglect. I have never neglected my kids. My daughter was 4, my son, who has delays and had just had surgery days before and was still recovering, had just turned 2. I was also pregnant at the time. After the whole "home invasion", while I was in the middle of moving, They decided it was an unfounded call. I found out through the gossip in my neighborhood that the caller was a "friend" of mine who was upset with me at the time.

I understand that CPS is there for a reason. I just think they should have some proof (other than a phone call) before barging into someones home with a police escort to accuse someone of neglect or abuse.

Danika - posted on 03/31/2010

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There are major differences with this generations' children than our parents' generation. My mother told of stories where children were polite, said yes ma'am, no ma'am. She also told me that when she got in trouble, she was made to choose her own switching stick. We as parents have to remember that we are not our child's friend, we are their parents. We do not need their opinion or approval of how well we are or are not raising them. I was spanked when I needed it, got a taste of soap a time or two, and was grounded to my room to read books when I misbehaved. I am now a double college degree graduate and upstanding citizen. I was also severely abused as a young child until my rescue to a wonderful foster home at the age of 7. I know the difference between the two. This time out in a chair, talking to, writing our feeling down mentality may work on some children, but I don't believe it works for all. People should not have to be afraid to parent their child in public if they need to. To each his own, but I do not let my kids parent me, I parent them.

Angeline - posted on 03/31/2010

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Alicia-what did your friend say you did that was neglectful? Would you have not wanted them to check out the situation given what your "friend" told them?

I think there should be consequences for what your "friend" did but I would not want someone to be afraid to call and make an honest report either.....

Linda - posted on 03/31/2010

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Sorry, but soap is toxic. Read any of the bottles or containers, they all say keep out of reach of children on them and have directions on what to do in case they were ingested. I'm all for parent's rights, but there must be common sense used. You say over and over in here "it's a last resort". I'd like to challenge that with an "oh really?" These children of "last resort" instances ever have to earn what they have in their rooms? Once I took every last item out of my son's room except his bed and dresser. Then once a week as he showed he earned them, got to pick one item to take back into his room. It's had long-lasting results. Children who have to earn what they have love and appreciate them that much more.

Jennifer - posted on 03/31/2010

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Using soap in your child's mouth teaches him or her to fear you. This is not an effective parenting method. Obviously, many mistakes had been made, but I'm on CPS's side here. While washing a child's mouth out with soap may not legally qualify as abuse in and of itself, it certainly calls into question the amount of respect that parent has for his or her child. Lack of basic respect can lead to scary things.

Paula - posted on 03/31/2010

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Thank you Michelle, I know that most of the bad words my kids say didn't come from my home, in fact some of them I have never heard and have to ask them what it means....so, where do they get them other than kids at school or the boob tube?

Alicia - posted on 03/31/2010

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I had CPS called on me for neglect. I have never neglected my kids. My daughter was 4, my son, who has delays and had just had surgery days before and was still recovering, had just turned 2. I was also pregnant at the time. After the whole "home invasion", while I was in the middle of moving, They decided it was an unfounded call. I found out through the gossip in my neighborhood that the caller was a "friend" of mine who was upset with me at the time.

I understand that CPS is there for a reason. I just think they should have some proof (other than a phone call) before barging into someones home with a police escort to accuse someone of neglect or abuse.

Michelle - posted on 03/31/2010

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You cannot say unequivocally that the only place a three year old hears bad language is in the home. I know parents that never swear. Not just in front of their kids, but never. And yet, the preschool called them because of an incident of bad language. Where did the child hear it? From other kids. In preschool.

Judith - posted on 03/31/2010

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Ever think that that phrase meant literally...spare the rod and spoil the child? Children SHOULD be spoiled with loads of love, nurturance from parents, wise guidance from parents and other adults, good role models, etc. etc. etc. Worked for me and for my extended family and all of our children!

A hundred years ago, would you also have defended the right of husbands to strike their disobedient wives?

Angeline - posted on 03/31/2010

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I think it is hard to judge a child abuse case by what only the parent said happened as the workers are bound by confidentiality so you may not get the entire story as to why their children were taken away-there is a lot of shame, and they are not going to tell the entire store. Again, in many states spanking is legal and someone putting soap in a child's mouth does not warrant a worker to "open" a case.

In my state it takes a lot to remove a child from the parent-sometimes too much which is heart breaking.

Most workers pray and hope that a parent can change so that a child can stay with the parent.

It is not black and white- I have seen both workers get the short end of the stick and not be able to remove a child before more damage was done and have seen a child removed when the parent should have had more help so they could successfully care for their children.

Marsha - posted on 03/31/2010

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You know, I'm not going to even bother reading the rest of these posts. I just dropped my kid off at school and actually thought about all this and came to this conclusion. I don't think any of you even knows what abuse is? Have any of you ever been abused in any way? I highly doubt it. And to head you all off, YES i was abused as a child, severely. I don't remember when it all started but i remember everything starting out with getting spankings across my grandmother's knee. Harmless. But as I got older and became more mentally independent, my grandmother saw that as rebellion, or even better, the work of the devil. I've been chased around the house and had to hide from her. Being cornered and beaten. And when she didn't feel like getting up, she'd grab the first thing she could and throw it at me, and it was usually something big and hard, crystal dishes, pots, shoes. She's thrown the long handle of a broken garden hoe at me. She'd beat me in my sleep because she knew I couldn't run from her then. Grab my hair and beat my head against a wall. As I hit junior high and high school and actually tried to defend myself, knives. Basically, her beatings made me numb inside, so i didn't feel them, and to her, if i didn't cry out, she had to beat me harder or get creative. But...she was always mindful to never..never under any circumstances, hit me in the face. All this in the name of God and while spouting her bible verses at me. She instilled fear in me. And and almost a bitter hatred for her 'religion'. And I dare ANY of you to spout God at me. I'm a happy, open minded Pagan because of my living hell growing up and have found more joy and peace in my Goddess and her consort than i ever did in a Christian church. When i got stupidly pregnant at 18, I was afraid she put me on the street, because she actually threatened to do just that if I ever got knocked up, along with her calling me a whore and slut at 12 years old, just because i wanted to wear a bloody effing dress to school, and any other time she deemed it necessary to call me these things. Anyways, after getting pregnant, finally moved out and living with my by that point husband, we both agreed we'd never spank. That went out the window really quick when our daughter showed she had the stubborn tough spirit of both of us. Now I know that after raising 2 children to this point, i may have made some mistakes..spanked a little too hard, or yelled at them too much..or possibly just plain mean. It's an unfortunate thing that as parents, we are feeling our way through raising our children, and that me make mistakes and unfortunately because we are new at it, our kids may have to 'suffer' , i use that term very loosely, for it. I am now second time married, I've given birth to 3 beautiful girls, been through 1.5 years of cancer treatment for my oldest, and buried my baby girl in November. i learned valuable lessons from my childhood on what not to do to my kids. i will never instill fear in them, but a firm respect for my authority as a mother, and respect for others as humans. I will never beat my children. My children will never hear the words whore and slut come out of my mouth. I listen to loud harsh music that, in my social scene, does not use profanity or degrade women like other styles of music do, while my kids listen to the Disney Princess CD i made for them, at least when they are with me. When they go to their dad's, it's that disgusting Lady Gaga. While the beats are nice, i stopped even the remote like of her music when i heard my girls singing ' I wanna take a ride on your disco stick'. I drink beer on occasion. I am brutally honest with me kids and i refuse to sugar coat. I curse, and they dare not repeat one word i say, not because i threaten them, and not with the reason 'do as i say not as I do' , but with the reason of that there are some things they are too young to say and do and know to understand the meaning of and the context in which certain subjects are used. I spank my girls as a last resort. They get time outs. They get punishments fitting the crime when they are popped. They take or touch what is not theirs, a pop on the hand, they get mouthy, a pop on the mouth. Any other offense is a pop on the butt AFTER they've had the chance to straighten up from time outs. If things get bad enough, they get grounded from certain things, again the punishment fitting the action. But all of these are maybe a once or twice a week occasions, otherwise my girls are well behaved. I tell them to clean their room, though i tell them 6 times and the youngest tries to weasel out of it, but dang it they clean their room. It's shower time, in the shower they go. Bed time is a breeze in this house. We can take them to the store, especially a toy store, and they are always well behaved, never grabbing for things they shouldn't. And everyone that sees my girls tell me how well behaved they are and how well they listen to me.

So for any of you to say that a little soap in the mouth is harmful, you're stupid and shouldn't breed. Soap is non toxic, otherwise it wouldn't be on the shelves, because it can get on the mucous membranes of the body such as the eyes, nose, mouth, and for us women, our vaginal areas, and those membranes easily absorb anything that gets in contact with them. Unless the packaging states otherwise, it is non toxic. Now i'm not saying it's ok to eat the stuff, or shove down your kids throat, but a little in the mouth won't hurt. A spanking, seriously people. It's harmless mentally for the kids. They hate spankings and try to do their best as a 5 and 6 year old to not do something that brings about a spanking. Again that is a last resort around here. But they hate it none the less, and straighten up real quick after-wards. We are raising a generation of of either soft little runts that can't handle the hard things in life, or we're raising the little street urchins who disrespect their elders. As i said in the beginning ,i don't think any of you knows what abuse is, or degradation and humiliation for that matter. i wish my grandmother soaped my mouth. i wish I only got simple spankings with just a hand instead of a belt. I only wish I was just grounded, then again, I had no friends so i never really left my room, let alone the house. You all are soft as parents and are raising soft children. CPS is a joke, and I don't care what you softies say, they ride the asses of people who've done no wrong but try to raise their kids right, while children are given over to druggies, and left in the homes of the real abusers and neglectful. i've seen it happen. I was raised in the system. When my last little girl died of SIDS, CPS got involved because it was in infant death, and they have to investigate all such cases in the even that there is abuse. Do to miscommunication on many parts, and the fact that the worker showed up just hours after our baby was taken away in body bag, my husband and i assumed she, as a representative of CPS, was accusing us of murder. And that woman almost ran scared out of our house withint 5 minutes of walking in. She came back over a week later, after everything had calmed down as much as it could, and explained her purpose. She was kind and understanding, and though I assume she enjoys her career, hates certain parts of her job. She admitted to watching cases go neglected of children in poor situations, of children with REAL reports of abuse go without the help they need. And she's seen the autopsy's of many abused, broken and neglected children. She knows the system is flawed and odes her best to make it easier on the good parents like us, and tries to make sure justice is served for the shitty ones who don't even change their babies diapers. In the words of one other poster on this forum, get the hell over yourselves and find out what real abuse is before you rant and judge and act like know it alls.

TINAANN - posted on 03/31/2010

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Where were the agencys when i was growing up? Having my parents shove my head into the toilet repeatedly,telling me I was a worthless piece of shit.and flushing.All because I brought a f home on my report card.

Judith - posted on 03/31/2010

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Children DO need discipline - but there are many ways to discipline that don't require inflicting physical pain. If a parent feels they must hit their child, spanking with an open hand - as opposed to using an implement (belt, spoon, coat hanger, whatever) is the way to go as the parent then knows how hard they are hitting and are less likely to inflict injuries.

Again, we aren't permitted by law to hit anyone else, only the most vulnerable little people. If I took a swat at anyone else, it's called assault.

Lynn - posted on 03/31/2010

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Sometimes common sense doesn't work in this new society. I have taken everything away from my child and grounded her for a month and she just doesn't care. Sometimes there is only old school. It worked for our parents and our ancestors. This no spanking policy and all that garb has led us to the society that we have now. READ your BIBLE!!! "Spare the rod, Spoil the child"

HOPE - posted on 03/31/2010

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I don't know where your really??? comes from. I agree with you and never said not to discipline your kids. I am not the one saying not to do anything. I am saying that I am tired of parents acting like all you can do is timeouts and shit like that. Excuse my language but this post is getting really stupid. Apparently no one here is abusing there kids cause if they were they wouldn't be on here. SO DO WHAT YOU GOT TO DO. Just do it in reason.

Paula - posted on 03/31/2010

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UMMM, Cindy Lu, where do you live that they still put lye in soap. Most people don't even buy bar soap anymore, and although I used soap a few times, my boys liked it so I tried hot sauce, now they eat anything with alot of spice, then I found the best thing. Vinigar is not toxic, tastes horrible straight and if you use cider vinigar it is actually good for them.

Katrina - posted on 03/31/2010

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Oh, and by the way, when I was 11 years old, my sister and I got into a cursing match, we both ended up in the livingroom, on the couch, with liquid Dawn dish soap under our tongues for 3 minutes, GUESS WHAT??? WE BOTH LIVED!!! I thank my mom everyday for doing what she had to to make me a good person, it is a screwed up world out there and if more parents took the time to keep their kids under control, good, hard working parents who care about their kids wouldn't have such a hard time!!!

[deleted account]

Hope, there are some sopas that are poisonous so you need to be careful. I did that once to my child and afterwards I really felt bad. I had it done to me and hated it and said I would never to it to mine. I did it only once and never again. There are lots of ways to discipline but that one isn't one of them. And, I do not advocate beating. There is a difference between spanking and beating. And not when you are angry.

Katrina - posted on 03/31/2010

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I got chills reading this!!! I stand and salute you! I could NOT have said it better myself. I don't know about of you... but where I am... they teach the kids in school that they can get their parents 'in trouble' for spanking them. I was spanked as a child and a teenager ( AND BOY DID I DESERVE IT!!!!) And I am a happy, productive adult.... I have my own major issuse with these government agencies. I know a lady who lost her son after she spanked him for running in front of a car... but the neighbor lady had a 4 year old who was being molested and claimed it to be someone in the home and that poor child was NEVER removed from the home!!! It is whatever is easier for them to handle... I was about 2 days from starting classes to become a social worker and decided against it do to the things I have seen from these agencies.... when did it become anything other than saving the children who really need it... and these people who are removing your children, are they offering to take them and raise them better? NO, because most of them DO NOT even have children of their own. But this is where all you can do is rely on KARMA.... I have to stop not because I think I can actually feel my blood boiling in my veins!

Angeline - posted on 03/31/2010

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I do have friends who spank but I choose not to. They have told me for them they never do it when they are angry and explain to their children why they are being punished. Again spanking is not for me! It does not work with one of their Son's b/c he will taunt his parents by saying, "spank,spank" when he does something he is not suppose to. I found this episode of Super Nanny interesting....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/126019/superna...

[deleted account]

I don't think anyone is advocating hitting a child. I think what they are saying is a child does need discipline. Children of today have no discipline. They do however, have everything they want. Kimberly said it best if you want to refer back that far. I've worked with child care workers and they want control. The state would like to have control. Some workers are great and others are too overbearing. Children do not belong to the parent, they belong to God and we are the caretakers, not the state.

[deleted account]

You know as a mother/parent you do NOT have to talk to them in any way shape or form unless they have a warrant or court order to enter your home and request information from you...even a police officer... and when you start talkng you start the case.... my advice to all mothers if you answer the door as who they are and say they need a court order to enter and do not say anything... thats your right plead the 5th.... no one can control your life unless you let them in... if you dont talk no case can be made....

Paula - posted on 03/31/2010

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Really??? and what do you do with your teen that is bigger and stronger then you when they decide they know better than you what they should be doing and previously trying the "time out" and "don't do that honey" hasn't worked??? Please tell me because I am ready to take Tah Dula's advice and take them to the DCFS and tell them they should try to raise the kid that won't listen or obey the rules.

HOPE - posted on 03/31/2010

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OK I HAVE READ MOST OF THESE POSTS AND IT AMAZES ME HOW PEOPLE WANT TO SIT HERE AND JUDGE OTHERS FOR THE WAY THEY DISCIPLINE THIER CHILDREN. UNLESS THEY ARE REALLY ABUSING THEIR CHILD THEN GET A GRIP. A LITTLE SOAP IN THE MOUTH NEVER HURT ANYONE. PLEASE, SOMEONE TELL ME A STORY THEY HEARD ABOUT A CHILD DEAD BEACUSE OF A LITTLE SOAP. AND SINCE WHEN IS IT ABUSE BECAUSE WE SLAP OUR KIDS ON THE BUTT OR ON THE HAND FOR SOMETHING THEY DID WRONG. MOST OF Y'ALL ARE SOUNDING LIKE CPS. IT IS NOT ABUSE TO TEACH YOUR CHILD RIGHT FROM WRONG. IT IS PEOPLE LIKE YOU ALL THAT GET CPS INVOLVED IN BULLS--- CALLS AND WHY THEY DON'T GET TO THE CHILD THAT IS REALLY BEING ABUSED. STOP MAKING CALLS ON PARENTS THAT IS DISCIPLINING AND CALL ON THE ONES THAT ARE. HAVEN'T YOU ALL FIGURED OUT THAT A REAL CHILD THAT IS BEING ABUSED, MENTALLY, PHYSICALLY, OR SEXUALLY IS NOT GONNA SAY THEY ARE. APPARENTLY Y'ALL HAVE NEVER REALLY KNOWN ANYONE BEING ABUSED. WHEN YOU DO YOU WILL KNOW WHAT TO LOOK FOR AND STOP BEING SO JUDGEMENTALLY INCORRECT.

Michal - posted on 03/31/2010

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There is heavy corruption with CPS.

Here's a report written by Senator Nancy Schaefer about the corruption of CPS: http://fightcps.com/pdf/TheCorruptBusine...

Her recommendations for making things better were:

1. Call for an independent audit of the Department of Family and Children’s Services

(DFCS) to expose corruption and fraud.

2. Activate immediate change. Every day that passes means more families and children

are subject to being held hostage.

3. End the financial incentives that separate families.

4. Grant to parents their rights in writing.

5. Mandate a search for family members to be given the opportunity to adopt their

own relatives.

6. Mandate a jury trial where every piece of evidence is presented before removing a

child from his or her parents.

7. Require a warrant or a positive emergency circumstance before removing children from their parents. (Judge Arthur G. Christean, Utah Bar Journal, January, 1997 reported that “except in emergency circumstances, including the need for immediate medical care, require warrants upon affidavits of probable cause before entry upon private property is permitted for the forcible removal of children from their parents.”)

8. Uphold the laws when someone fabricates or presents false evidence. If a parent

alleges fraud, hold a hearing with the right to discovery of all evidence.



And by the way - someone wanted to shut her up: she was murdered on Saturday, March 27, 2010.

http://www.infowars.com/cps-warrior-nanc...



:(

Jeanna - posted on 03/31/2010

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I feel each is to their own.and know body should judge or tell anyone how to raise a child unless they are doing bodly harm.if soap works or a good old spanking than use it.kids act they way they do cause everyone is afaid to spank there child cause of the gov.there is nothing wrong with old school punishment.we turned out just fine and we minded and respected our parents.if you dont spank your child when they need it than thats your businesss but do not tell someonelse that they can not do that.the gov. needs to mind there own business they didnt lay dwn to have my children nor do they support them or pay there bills.they need to but out.who died and made them god.to me there is only one god and it sure aint them or nobody here on earth.

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