Pediatricians decide on circumsision!

Jodi - posted on 09/21/2012

"Jodi you seem so defensive. Relax."



Really? I have nothing to be defensive about, so I have no idea why you have decided to make a comment on it. If I were you, I'd go back to wherever it teaches you to read tone into words on the internet and get your money back, because I don't feel at all defensive about anything, and there is no way you CAN read tone into typed words unless you know the person well enough. And you don't know me well enough to make any sort of assumption about my tone.



Especially as it is your ONE and ONLY post in this forum. Nothing constructive to add to anything said in this thread, just a single comment aimed at me. Interesting.....trolling ex member maybe?

Janae C - posted on 09/20/2012

You have to remember that you just read a review of a report. You didn't read the actual report on why pediatricians recommend circumcision. Another major reason to get it done is to decrease the rate of UTIs. As a nurse myself I have seen many men in their 70s that have had to be circumcised because of recurrent UTIs. Let me tell you it is not pretty and is very very painful. We did have our son circumcised and have had no problems. I would recommend that you do your research and make sure your doctor is experienced at the procedure. I do find it very interesting that the OBGYN is the one that does the procedure and not the pediatrician,

Melynda - posted on 09/20/2012

I had asked the Dr about it too when I had my son. At the time I had wanted to get him circumcised, but wasn't sure. The Dr told me, the only reason to get your son circumcised is religious, cultural, and personal. OK makes sense to me. There is no health benefit to a circumcision re: disease, hygiene, et al. Even a snipped penis can be a dirty penis. It is up to us as parents to teach proper cleaning. A Dr would for medical reasons if there were a problem w/ urinating, since the foreskin does not slide down the head until they're older. We decided not to get him snipped in the end and I am happy with my decision.

Margaret - posted on 09/18/2012

To each his own, but I personally think the practice is barbaric. My son is not circumcised, and we have never had a problem with it. I'm not judging you who have had it done, just giving my opinion on it.

Tracy - posted on 09/18/2012

As a mother of 2 boys, ages 13 and 9 today, I elected to have them both circumcised. After doing research on circumcisions (pros and cons), I felt it was best to have it done; although it broke my heart knowing they had to go through the procedure. My primary concern was the chances of infections, mostly due to improper care. I didn’t want the stress or worry of them not properly cleaning their privates during their showers. I find getting them to brush their teeth twice a day a challenge on most days. I do know that there are several Ins. Carriers that will not cover this expense (which I find to be unfair based on the rates of HC). Luckily for me, my Ins. Carrier did cover this procedure. I feel that Ins. Carriers should take in consideration that, by NOT covering this procedure, there is a higher chance of healthcare needs, related to infections (STD; HIV) due to being uncircumcised. Again, I feel this is a parents right to have this procedure performed on their child. I just think it’s terrible that many parents are left with NO choice, if an Ins. Carrier refuses to pay and the parents are unable to cover the fees out of their pockets.

I’ve had other people tell me that they are concerned about the embarrassment their son may face, as he reaches adulthood, because they are uncircumcised. Although this was never a concern to me; I do somewhat agree with this. I do believe people (especially teenagers) can be very cruel and critical toward each other these days.

Sally - posted on 09/17/2012

Actually we should cut off all feet at birth because so many people get diabetes and that causes foot problems. We should also remove infants ears because so many children have ear infections. And if a dad loses a body part in an accident, all his sons should have the same part amputated so they "look the same". Though if we were to cut off every body part the average small child doesn't want washed, well there wouldn't be much left of any of us.

It's amazing the lengths the well meaning but ignorant will go to to justify a mutilation just because other people do it.

Johnny - posted on 09/17/2012

So boys should be circumcised at birth because nursing home care attendants of the future may not be as well educated about caring for the uncircumcised penis as they should be????????



My aunt ended up needing two surgeries on her heel because the care attendant at her facility wasn't treating her bed sore properly. She was unable to walk for months on end and as a result ended up getting more bed sores, sepsis, and going into organ failure. So should we cut off our baby's feet at birth to prevent this in the future?

Jennifer - posted on 09/17/2012

Ok let me tell you about an elderly man who never had a circumsision... I worked at a nursing home and an elderly man still had his skin and well the skin was not pulled back down after cleaning by a very new and young woman who didn't know how bad a thing to do that was and after a weekend of that it became red, swelled and was very painful for him he had to be sent to the hospital where they fixed this problem..

I told a mother-to-be about that because she had the same worry but in the end her husband after that story was all for the circumsision.. If and when I have a boy he'll get a circumsision..

Sarah - posted on 09/17/2012

Our healthcare here in Canada is awful... My friend's dad was recently told he "immediately needed to start chemo" as he had prostate and bone cancer that is rapidly spreading... that was 5 weeks ago and he is just starting it today! My husband had a painful lump on his testicle. Took 6 months to get in to the dr, get an ultrasound and get the diagnoses of a cyst. My brother fell 25 feet off of a silo. Brain injury/swelling caused intense seizures and my brother's personality was totaly different! They sent him home! They had no beds! The man just fell 25 feet off a silo and is having seizures, memory loss, he can't read or speak half the time, but they have no beds, so see ya! Wish we had the same system as the USA!

Donna - posted on 09/17/2012

Jodi you seem so defensive. Relax.

Michelle - posted on 09/15/2012

Ya say hello first in your spam, that makes it OK. So infuriating

Diana - posted on 09/14/2012

Ok. I have 2 sons neither are circumcised; I was given the option to do so by my Doc. My choice was based on the fact that if my son was brought into this world this way then who am I to take a piece of him away and why would I disturbe him and upset his nerves!! As for hygien purposes my one son is 10 and he has never had a problem with infection,he has been taught that if he does not clean him self well then it will start to hurt and will get infected. My other son is 10 months and so far we haven't had any problems;)

Jodi - posted on 09/14/2012

@ Sherri, I can tell as a moderator, I am . Every time I log on I have to spend ages trawling through trying to find it.

Tifffany - posted on 09/14/2012

I agree with Michele! We had our son circumcised despite this fact because I felt it should be his father's choice. I believe it has become more of a social stigma to not have it done rather than an actual health-conscious choice. If we decided to instead teach our son proper hygiene along with instilling strong values, he would've been just fine. As for the argument of problems later in life? Again, I feel that these problems stem largely from poor personal hygiene and promiscuity.

Sherri - posted on 09/12/2012

What the heck is going on almost every single thread with the rampage of Spam all of a sudden. Is anyone else bloody sick of it?

Sherri - posted on 09/11/2012

I am not trying to convince anyone for or against but I will say if you do your research and know your doctor doing the surgery you can be make sure you use a doctor that uses numbing agents so that the baby or child doesn't feel any pain.

Sally - posted on 09/11/2012

We used to remove tonsils in most kids "because they'd just need it later". We now know better. Hopefully, soon we'll know better about this too.

I admit the part that drives me most nuts is the people who say "It couldn't have hurt. He went right to sleep." How long would they be conscious if we tied them up and started skinning them without painkillers?

Bryndís - posted on 09/11/2012

We don't do that in Iceland, where I live, unless you are muslim or jewish.

Julie - posted on 09/11/2012

It doesn't change the fact that it is a mutilation and a needless one at that. Lets remove babies pinkies while were at it, and their tonsils, appendixes etc. Oh and let's remove mammary glands as well and anything else that might grow cancer cells. Circumcision is a ridiculous lie mothers convince themselves is ok but it's wrong. The people making the decision aren't putting their dicks in the circustraint. Don't believe it's not painful. Newborns feel just as much pain or more as twelve year olds. They just don't have the voice to complain about it. Stop routine circumcising!

Michelle - posted on 09/10/2012

I have two boys who are not circumcised but if anyone had been rude enough to tell me not to circumcise if I had wanted to I would have been livid. It's the parents choice nobody elses period there are plenty of things when it comes to raising a child that are personal choices and no one elses business like ear piecings, cloth nappies or diapers, smacking or not smacking, private school or public school and for twins same classroom or different classroom.

Liisa - posted on 09/10/2012

Its quite difficult to get a boy circumcised in the UK. The town we moved from last year would not even do it for religious reasons strictly only medical. The new town we live in will refer to hospital on medical or religious grounds but a parent can not just choose to have it done for any reason.

We are Muslim so our son should be circumcised but I feel it's important that it is his own choice to make when he gets older and can make that decision for himself. It is after all his life, not mine. If he needed it for medical grounds I feel that would be different and a valid reason for me to agree to the procedure.

Denise - posted on 09/10/2012

My grandson is not circumsized. His parents made that choice. He was born at a birthing center all natural. I am not saying one way or the other is best. It is a personal choice. But, having said that, my grandson, now 4, is having problems. His foreskin is too tight and the urine is hard to get out. It balloons and is painful. They put steroid creams and worked and worked to get it to stretch. Nothing has worked. Now he faces surgery (circumcision). He wants the surgery. He is worried, and tired of problems. I just wish he could have had it Done before he had memories of the pain.

Laura - posted on 09/10/2012

My husband an I had every intention of getting our son circumcised. After reading pros and cons, we decided to forgo it and let him decide when/if he wants to. His Dr was very angry with us for our choice. Which I've never seen before. She then proceeded to tell us that oír son is well endowed and wouldn't miss his foreskin. So why not go ahead and do it. I found this extremely disturbing.

Mallory - posted on 09/10/2012

My intact son has never had a UTI or any kind of infection, pain or other issue. Like one of them said, they cherry pick groups of individuals to get those percentages and numbers instead of randomly selecting individuals, so even their research is botched.

Chantele - posted on 09/10/2012

Why would you want to do a medical procedure on a baby, if not medically necessary. Would you have your child's tonsils removed, just because you think it is best? Or remove one of his kidneys, if it is said that that can prevent a STD? Teach him about safe sex. If it isn't broke, why fix it? There is a reason God made men with foreskin. Most probably we will never find out why, just as we do not know why the appendix is there. I have a son, and we HAD to have him circumcised, due to a medical condition. If not for this, I would not have tampered with his perfect little body.

Jodi - posted on 09/10/2012

Actually, Carla, we have a private healthcare option in Australia (that is not-for profit based and MUCH more affordable insurance than your system - I pay $150 a month to insure my entire family), and you don't have to wait months for surgery at all. And not only that, we can get insurance even with pre-existing conditions!!! It is a choice every Australian has.



My husband waited only one month for an elective procedure, and the reason for the wait was because we were able to pick and choose a day convenient for us. So your sisters aren't actually telling you the entire truth. Also, it is only ever elective procedures that you have to wait for.



And if your sociology professor told you that the Australian health care system "lets" people die, that's total crap. If you have a life threatening condition, you get immediate medical treatment. Your sociology prof. was filling your head with bullshit.

Carla - posted on 09/09/2012

I learned about it in sociology class where I had an extremely liberal professor who would have no reason to lie since he believes in gov't healthcare. He was merely presenting the pros and cons. I have sisters who live in Australia and yes they do have to wait months for surgeries that we do not have to wait for. Also, in the US everyone is "insured" as the hospitals do not turn away people who cannot pay and there are free/reduced pay Dr. clinics as well as insurance for lower income folks. People who say they cannot "afford" to go to the Dr. spend hundreds of dollars on luxury items in their lives. Off topic I know, but does have some bearing in a discussion crossing international borders.

Sandra - posted on 09/09/2012

Here in the united states, "so he doesn't get laughed at" just doesn't make sense anymore. First of all, only about half of babies these days are getting circ'd. By the time a baby today is old enough to notice, it won't matter anymore.



Second, they still don't notice! I've got two nudist boys and let me tell you, they're 7 and 11 and still haven't noticed that the older one is and the younger one isnt!

Carmen - posted on 09/09/2012

I totally agree with you. I did a ton of research everywhere I could think of before my son was born and managed to convince my circumcised husband that there really isn't any solid evidence either way. I talked to my pediatrician and she basically confirmed it. It is cultural and/or religious more than anything else. I personally was not willing to put my newborn son through that however all of my friends have had their sons circumcised with no problems. It is a personal choice in my opinion. Look into it for yourself and made your own decision. I would not let this particular article sway me. Condoms will certainly provide the same protection.

Michelle - posted on 09/08/2012

http://www.circinfo.org/parents.html



That's what I meant to post

Michelle - posted on 09/08/2012

If you read this and aren't convinced not to circumsize, some part of you is already leaning towards circumsision and therefore you'll probably seek out articles that tell you why you SHOULD circumsize.



Why does everyone assume it's so much easier on babies? It's not as if they can verbalize their pain or discomfort in words. Other than screaming, crying, maybe writhing in pain - diagnosis Colic ;). Point being, we really have no reliable way to prove its any less painful for them. Worse they can't take pain medication.



It was really such a no-brainier for me

Johnny - posted on 09/08/2012

Mary, sometimes clotting may not occur. Perhaps the doctors are unable to get the bleeding under control. I actually know a woman from here on COM whose first son had a botched circumcision. I believe that it healed incorrectly, but it was hard to see that it was happening because it is so small. So the problem was quite serious by the time he received treatment. He's a preschooler now and still has issues requiring frequent visits to the doctor. I know she is an extremely conscientious mother, so I don't doubt that she was looking after it. But how many of us frequently see recently circumcised baby penises enough to know exactly how it should appear if it's healing correctly?



It really does depend on where you live. I definitely wouldn't circumcise in order to avoid humiliation because the vast majority of boys here are uncircumcised.

Keli - posted on 09/08/2012

i know its hard to know if its the right thing. my son hasnt had any infections yet. and my friends child who is almost 3 has had 2 infections and he was circumsised

Mary - posted on 09/08/2012

Also when I had my baby circumcised I used change his diaper very often and check to see how he was doing a lot.. how do babies bleed to death? Do the parents not check on them enough or how does that work?

Susan - posted on 09/08/2012

I had my son circumsised as his father was...My new partner is not and in asking him about the issue he indicated that over the years he has expirenced some problems requiring medical attention IE creams and antiboitics to clear up infection. It seam to me it's not very different than my expirence with yeast infections.



I was never certain that we made the correct decision to have our son done. I felt so sorry for him when they brought him back the next day with that raw red circle around his brand new baby bird...I can ony imagine the stink he felt at each urination. So are we doing the right thing..Not sure but it's there for a reason. In comparision of the two partners, I think that the forseskin has offered a protective cover allowing the head skin to maintaining a sensitivity level that did not appear as prevelant in the ex...who knows....

Keli - posted on 09/07/2012

Oh ok i forgot about the gym thing.My boyfriend must not have been mocked or anything because he was the one highly against circumsising, i never did alot of research on it i thought it was just the thing to do,but he expressed not wanting it done so we left it alone.i talked too family members who had 3 boys and not one were cirumsised either. but the more i read opinions on it it becomes interesting,a bit to late now,that he is almost two hopefully we dont run into any problems where he needs to get done anyway :/ what a frusterating matter.

Sherri - posted on 09/07/2012

@Keli I don't know about everywhere and can not speak for everyone but I know here it is unusual for a boy not to be circumcised and in my kids HS the boys all have to change in front of each other and shower in front of each other for gym. Those that are different are mocked and humiliated.



We have a friend that was tormented so badly in HS for not being circumcised that he refused to ever let his son go through what he had and made sure his son was circumcised when he was born. He is the only male we have ever known out of all our family and friends that is not circumcised.

Tina - posted on 09/07/2012

This is a JEWISH mandate from God to circumcise the sons on the 8th day! All docs will tell you that the 8th day is when the antibodies and coagulation is at its best. God knows was best and has a plan. Jesus was circumcised. For him NOT to be would have been sin. Good enough for him, it is good enough for all my sons. They are all now 30, 18, 12 and not traumatized in any way. Besides, you give them a little Maneshwitz wine on the gauze and the baby sucks on it and gets a bit of a buzz. He is very happy. Momma is not, but it is an amazing covenant with God and and amazing celebration for family and friends.!

Keli - posted on 09/07/2012

What do you mean by Humiliation in the future?

Hannah - posted on 09/07/2012

I don't know anyone that has ever not been circumsized but my child was. It hurts yes to them but they get over it. Just like having a baby it hurts but not forever.. It does keep from humiliiating your child in the future. I have heard that it keeps from infections also. I can't really tell you what you should do or what you shouldn't but i do believe that you should just my thoughts though

Johnny - posted on 09/07/2012

I have no problem with parents who make an INFORMED choice and decide that for them, circumcision is the correct choice. But making that decision should be based on real information and understanding how the statistics and rates of complications relate to them, their child, and their situation.



It does bother me, Dawn, when people list made-up, bullshit statistics for which they provide no evidence and cite no studies to argue for it being necessary. Not only that, but you have doubled-down on this statistic by suggesting that it occurs before the age of 8, not even just 20% in a lifetime. I call total bs on this.



Did you know that worldwide only 1/3 of men are actually circumcised in their lifetime? The rates of circumcision may be much higher where you are, and noticably accompanied by the ignorance of how to properly care for an uncircumcised penis, but complication rates of 20% for those not circumcised are overstated even for those regions. Not to mention in places where circumcision is not the norm.



Did you know that 1 in 500 infant circumcisions can result in severe to catastrophic complications?

American Academy of Pediatrics, 2012



Circumcised infants are less likely to develop urinary tract infections (UTIs), especially in the first year of life. UTIs are about 10 times more common in uncircumcised males than circumcised infants. However, even with this increased risk of UTI, only 1% or less of uncircumcised males will be affected. Kidshealth.org



The rates of complications for circumcisions are estimated to be between 1.5% and 3% for each individual complication which include foreskin adhesion, serious bleeding, meatitis, and buried (trapped) penis.

Complications of circumcision in male neonates, infants and children: a systematic review; Helen A Weiss1*, Natasha Larke1, Daniel Halperin2 and Inon Schenker3; Biomedical Urology; http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2490/1...



It is not a clear cut issue (no pun intended) and frankly, for those that have no idea how to care for an uncircumcised penis, who do not have medical professionals who can tell them how to properly care for an uncircumcised penis, and who would not bother to find out the realities of how to care for an uncircumcised penis, circumcision may just be a better choice.



But for those that understand proper care procedures and who exist in a culture where not circumcising is the norm, it is probably not really a necessary procedure. And it DOES result in the removal of a portion of the sexual organ that can provide heightened pleasure throughout life. So each parent does need to weigh the FACTS as they relate to their child and his situation and make the best decision that they can.

Mary - posted on 09/07/2012

I personally am all for the parents choice.. I have a baby boy and I was a little skepticl about getting it done. But I did it just because my great great grandpa who is now 83 didn't have his done until 13, he says even thoguh his mom always taught him to stay clean when he went to the bathroom he felt like it was too much work and so he got an infection because of that thus getting a late circumcision... honestly it is the parents choice I just feel bad for the babies because all parents want to do is do what is best for them :(

Jodi - posted on 09/06/2012

The *offending* skin IS the most sensitive part of the male body, not ON the most sensitive part :\

Really? Female circumcision is an atrocity but male circumcision is not? How is it any less an atrocity?



"When a person needs an appendix removed ortonsils taken out (to use your example) do we say "this child no longer retains physically integrity. "



Ah, see that word *needs*? No infant *needs* to be circumcised.

Dawn - posted on 09/06/2012

Jodi, we are talking about a minor proceedure here. Not a surgery (where you would require anesthesia) or female circumcision (an actual atrocity still performed on young women in other countries) where the female organs are ACTUALLY mutilated.

And the offending skin is on the MOST SENSATIVE PART of the male body! So we women get a UTI and it sucks. We feel like crap, we take our meds and feel better in a few days. Guys who are having constant problems with this get little to no relief until it is gone. It gets (for lask of a better word) stuck. It splits and bleeds. Then gets infected which spreads into a UTI. If not adressed the problems never end.

What I can't see is how anyone thinks a childs "physical integrity" is at question here. When a person needs an appendix removed ortonsils taken out (to use your example) do we say "this child no longer retains physically integrity.

I am not sure where you get your source about a highter rate of tonsilectomys, but the stats I read had serious complications for 20% before the age of 8! That doesn't even count those older affected.

The bottom line with my son is that is it possible that he would never have had an infection? Possibly. But when things go wrong down there, they go REALLY wrong. And I don't want this little man to ever have to deal with that.

I am done fighting. You will receive no replies from me.







Just check this out:

http://www.circleofmoms.com/article/toug...



This is what I was trying to prevent for my little son.



Cheers

Jodi - posted on 09/06/2012

I must admit, I found the 20% to be exaggerated too, but I couldn't be bothered going to search for it, LOL.

Johnny - posted on 09/06/2012

Dawn, please please provide some evidence of your assertion that 20% of uncircumcised men have serious complications. I've looked and can find nothing to support that. Circumcision is not common across all cultures and countries. Many places have very low rates of circumcision or virtually none and 20% of the men there aren't walking around with problem penises. Where I live, about 50% of the men of my generation are not circumcised and there is not a huge penis emergency. It is only about 20% of newborn boys here who are currently getting the procedure and the only child I know who had penile issues was due to a problem following a circumcision (for religious reasons). So I'd love to see the actual studies that support your assertions.

Jodi - posted on 09/06/2012

In that case, we should remove all baby's tonsils at birth too. Because the complication rate is even higher. Let's not wait until they actually need to come out, just get it done routinely.



And while we are at it, let's circumcise the little girls, because, let's be honest, that labia is a total breeding ground for bacteria, and the complications that come from that are even higher. Think about how we could minimise cases of thrush, UTIs and the like from little girls. Nothing like a little preventative intervention.



Not buying it? Didn't think so......

Dawn - posted on 09/06/2012

Actually, angela. He was NOT the dr performing the proceedure. He just has years of medical ecperience behind his belt -you know, in addition to medical school and BEING A MAN! Do you know the serious complication rate for uncircumcised men? 1 in 5. That is 20% have issues that require a later proceedure. You are welcome to your choie, but to imply that the only reason my dr would encourage it is for a paycheck is obsurd -especially when he didn't!

And with you friend, who is to say that his issues with loss of feeling don't have to do with whatever issues caused his need for a circumcision as an adult? I am sure that constant infections and UTIs could be problematic. The truth is that you don't really know.

And is it possible that removing it at birth (as baby boy has not fully developed yet) actually gives the body the chance to compensate for any loss of feeling? We don't really know.

And physical integrity? Seriously? We are not talking anout a limb here. It is a piece of skin. I just can't see how removing a breeding ground for bacteria and a cause of multiple issues is going to violate their "physical integrity". I am sure that a tiny boy dealing with a fissure would be thrilled to get rid of that little piece of "physical integrity".

Jodi - posted on 09/06/2012

"We don't wait months for surgeries or "let" people die because the gov't doesn't want to spend money to keep them alive."



Not sure what it has to do with the topic.....but are there places that do that?

Carla - posted on 09/05/2012

So is ours by the way! We complain yet we have the best health care around. We don't wait months for surgeries or "let" people die because the gov't doesn't want to spend money to keep them alive.