Pedophillia A Lifestyle Choice? Are You F'ing Serious!?

Jenni - posted on 08/31/2011

I think the difference between domestic abusers, although I'm sure domestic abuse can be a trait of a psychopath, the two are not interchangeable.



It is possible to deal with the root of the issue in domestic abusers. It usually stems from anger issues, lack of control. Domestic abusers have issues with controlling personalities usually subsequent to lack of control in their lives.



I believe domestic abusers can be treated if the issues of control and anger are addressed. I believe they have much higher success rate to treatment.



So I would say, the difference is between pedophilia and domestic abusers is that their (pedophiles) issues are drastically more deep seeded.



When I was searching for Hare's traits of a psychopath it also warned that:

"The following findings are for research purposes only, and are not used in clinical diagnosis. These items cover the affective, interpersonal, and behavioral features. Each item is rated on a score from zero to two. The sum total determines the extent of a person's psychopathy."



So I'm assuming domestic abusers would typically not classify as psychopaths based on lower score despite sharing similar traits.

Jenni - posted on 08/31/2011

I think Tamarind is right. From what I've been reading... The vast majority of pedophiles are also diagnosed psychopaths. If not, the traits almost virtually overlap.



Pedophiles share narcissistic and antisocial (psychopathic) traits.



This is Hare's checklist for psychopathic traits:

Glibness/superficial charm.

Grandiose sense of self-worth.

Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom

Pathological lying

Conning/manipulative

Lack of remorse or guilt

Shallow affect

Callous/lack of empathy

Parasitic lifestyle

Poor behavioral controls

Promiscuous sexual behavior

Early behavior problems

Lack of realistic, long-term plans

Impulsivity

Irresponsibility

Failure to accept responsibility for own actions

Many short-term marital relationships

Juvenile delinquency

Revocation of conditional release

Criminal versatility (Hare, 1986)

(Narcissism also a characteristic)



Sort of why I'm skeptical that these individuals can be cured or taught to repress their urges. I believe they are, beyond a doubt in most cases, mentally ill.



This also is a very strong argument for why homosexuality and pedophilia should not be used in the same sentence. And why homosexuality is no longer considered a mental illness.



There is no link between homosexuality and mental illness. The only difference between most homosexuals and straight people is their sexual orientation. Especially when you consider the rainbow of bisexuality inbetween. Most of us would be considered mentally ill if the diagnosis was attributed to our sexual orientation.

Kellie - posted on 08/31/2011

I'm really not buying the pedophiles are psychopaths theory. The same can be said of people who abuse their spouses, oh dear I just couldn't help it she provoked me and I just couldn't control myself. Bullshit. Domestic violence offenders can control themselves and not abuse Their spouses in public and the same goes for pedophiles, they can control themselves and their behavior around others except apparently when abusing their victims.

While I'm sure some are psychopaths it, IMO, is not true for all of them.

Tamarind - posted on 08/30/2011

that is right! you are unable to create empathy and unable to change pedophiles or psychopaths.
In everyday life we question our selves on what is right and wrong, we use general manners, treat others with respect, speak kindly, reframe from being rude or hurting the people around us just because 'we felt like it or because it would make us feel better'. Even if we do go against what we think is ethically right we questions our actions, be nagged from our conciousness continualy until we do what our values, beliefs and heart tells us right,
Other human beings, such as pedophiles, understand that their are such things as morals, laws and what is ethically right. The difference is that they have no feeling around there actions. They might steel something, hurt someone, asbuse another human being and in this feel empowered by their sense of control and satisfaction for their needs, but with no sense of empathy, sympathy, concerns for another, the instant gratification of getting something for themself is huge and most of the time the consequences do not measure on the radar or concern for the other they may of hurt they dont have so in the end all they are left with the positive feelings of what they have.
In most cases it is small instances that start with pedophiles and psychopaths that introduces them to such reactions and slowly it can build into extreme scenarios.

In reality it is true and spoken from the mouth of many offenders the fact that "they wish they could control there actions but do not think they ever will".
scary in saying this, I have a serious concern for how they are going about dealing with such issues and strongly believe that many new implications need to be put in place along with ways of moitoring and controlling the situations better if they are unable to keep them seperated safely from society.

Stifler's - posted on 08/30/2011

I agree with Brandi. - "See the difference is, and why things like pedophilla and beastiality will NEVER be socially acceptable is because they are acts committed on non-consensual parties. DUH. They are crimes because they are unwarrented, unwanted acts on children and animals. UNLIKE homosexuality which is between two consensual adults. Morons. "

Beautiful - posted on 08/30/2011

Ok so if they dont have empathy and cant differentiate between right and wrong then why even consider trying to treat them? The whole point in treating someone is to get to the root of the problem, make the person see right and wrong and then go from there.... if pedophiles have no concept of right and wrong then to me treating them is one, a waste of money and 2 a waste of time. Time and money that could be better spent on someone who will actually benifit from treatment.
It may sound harsh but in opinion pedophilles have no place in this world, why the justice system continues to put them in prison "rehabilitate" then release them is beyond me. Some might say "well because they are people to", well im sorry but once that line is crossed they are no longer people in my mind.

Tamarind - posted on 08/30/2011

Most, if not all, pedophiles are unable to be treated or able to control their urges. As similar studies have stated along the brain function and thought process of psychopaths, pedophiles have an inability to feel empathy. Without empathy one is unable to see the right and wrong at times, feel pain for others and in others, no real emotional reaction to violence and able to fulfil what they want, at the expense of another, with no emotional connection and reaction. One thing is that as human beings they are able to feel shame and guilt. When it comes to them being punished for their crimes, they will feel shame and at times angry at themselves for being in such a position, BUT it the feelings of sadness, shame and anger will be self related and although they may say sorry for their crimes and wish they havn't dont it, it is so THEY werent in this position, not being the other family in pain.
Such factors, prove that really pedophiles and psychopaths are really unable to live in the outside world because sadly the truth is they will actually never change.
The criminal justive system and most therapists are aware of this factor, it is just that truly they have no idea what to do about it.
Lastly, speaking about pedophiles in regards to brain functioning, thought process, emotional reactios etc. It is clear to see in this area....pedophiles and homosexuality is on the other end of the spectrum.

Markea - posted on 08/30/2011

Wow is ALL I can say about this! :( Where does someone get off?

Kellie - posted on 08/30/2011

Oh yeah I know your not, I guess I was just thinking out loud lol

Jenni - posted on 08/30/2011

I'm not against treating it Kellie. I say, anything is worth a try. Like i said; even if it makes a small marginal difference and saves a handful of children, it's worth the while.



I'd much rather them treat it, if the individual is going to be on the streets. Yes, I'm aware that it costs too much money to house these criminals. That's why I said "I wish", but you can't live on a prayer... and we do have to find some way to lesson the reaccurance rate.



I just don't have much optimism, that's all. But of course, I'd rather them try to treat it than do nothing.

Kellie - posted on 08/30/2011

Do you think maybe it could be diverted Jennifer? As in the pedophile is given tools to manage his attraction to children using Cognitive therapies?

I guess that's treating it though. Might be worth a try, it's expensive keeping all those sicko's in prison.

I believe that, by treating things at their core we can overcome them, maybe we can't prevent some asshole fantasising about children, but MAYBE we can prevent him acting on his/her fantasies by giving them other ways to deal. I don't necessarily think locking them all up and throwing away the key, the "out of sight, out of mind" theory isn't really the greatest option either.

And I've been sexually abused.

Jenni - posted on 08/30/2011

Unfortunately, I don't think pedophilia can be treated.

Sara, I heard the reaccurance rate was 85%. But it was only considering those who were caught and charged again. Probably, doesn't include those who aren't caught.

But if they want to *try* this method of treating it. All the more power to them. If it works for some, then even a marginal improvement is better than none.

I just have my doubts. I think pedophilia is so deep rooted. And these individuals are beyond disturbed. I wish they could lock them away in mental institutions for life, especially repeat offenders. Or jail, whichever. As long as they're kept off the streets.

Charlotte - posted on 08/30/2011

The very idea of comparing such an evil and hideous thing to a simple addiction makes me sick!

Sara - posted on 08/29/2011

Considering the recidivism rate for pedophiles/sexual offenders is about 99.5%, I'd say it's definitely NOT a choice. I call bullshit too!

Jenni - posted on 08/29/2011

I understand what you meant Christy, but the article is arguing that one day pedophilia will been seen as mainstream and acceptable *like* homosexuality has become.

Just saying that will never happen. And I find it insulting and ignorant that the article would even suggest the two were the same. Or that pedophilia will go the way of homosexuality.

Christy - posted on 08/29/2011

BTW I never said pedo's and homosexuals were seen as equal in my book in ANY way. It's just the damn society/medical community mucking it all up.

Beautiful - posted on 08/26/2011

Yeah Jennifer, I couldnt have said it better than that. It pisses me off something fierce when people say that being gay or lesbian is a choice. As for pedophillia, yes they almost always have abuse in their background, that they should get help dealing with... going and doing it to another helpless child is not seeking help, and it is definantly not a "lifestyle".... I dont even know what else to say, I found that article discusting, when I was finaly able to talk my husband told me to stop yelling at him he didnt do it... apparently my voice had gone up quit a few octives

Jenni - posted on 08/26/2011

Exactly Brandi, it isn't a 'life-style choice'. Thanks for bringing that point up. Another term the anti gay movement uses. Insisting homosexuality is a 'choice' and 'lifestyle'. It isn't a choice anymore than it's a choice to be straight.



You are born straight, others are born gay, and the majority falls somewhere inbetween. You are not BORN a pedophile... typically, pedophiles have suffered sexual abuse themselves in the past and they continue the cycle of *abuse*.

a·buse (-byz)

tr.v. a·bused, a·bus·ing, a·bus·es

1. To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.

2. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.

3. To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.

4. To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.

5. Obsolete To deceive or trick.



None of these things apply to homosexuals... but they do apply to pedophiles. Abuse will never be socially acceptable.

You don't have sex with the same sex on a whim and then decide to be gay. You know, long before you have sex with anyone.

Beautiful - posted on 08/26/2011

Thank you Jennifer!

and I still stand by being gay and lesbian is NOT a lifestyle choice. Look at all the hate crimes commited on gay and lesbian.... im sorry but who in their right mind just wakes up one day and says " I think ill be gay/lesbian so I can subject myself to other peoples ignorance and intolerance and hate." they dont. These two cant even be compared because like Jennifer is saying, one is consensual the other is not. I cant see any parents finding out their child had been violated in such a way and then saying to man/woman.. "I understand, you should really seek help so this doesnt happen again" and then be on their merry way.

Jenni - posted on 08/26/2011

Christy, I have no intention on bashing you. But do you not see a big difference between something like homosexuality between two consensual adults, that harms no one. And pedophilia which has victims? Something that is greatly harmful to people will never *be* socially acceptable. No matter how much mainstream media tries to sell sex(y) to children. There will never be a time we live in where parents believe it's totally cool for someone to molest their child. There will never be a time where a molested child grows up undamaged from the assault.



The *only* reason homosexuality is becoming socially acceptable is because we're finally understanding that it harms no one. That the only reason it has been frowned upon in the past is because of some obscure scripture in thousand year old texts. That there are no victims of homosexuality because the participants are willing adults.



Oral and anal sex were at one time forbidden. But again, they harm no one. There are no victims. What two consensual adults do in their bedroom is nobody's business.



This is just another Fox News scare tactic to push their anti-gay agenda.

Christy - posted on 08/26/2011

Bash me. I agree with most of what he is saying, as in the DSM seems to cave when a socially unacceptable issue comes up and everyone gets in an uproar. For about 90 yrs, homosexuality was considered a mental issue, not a "lifestyle" per the DSM. Based on the public perception if homosexuality, the DSM changes it's definition. Not saying being gay and molesting children are the same by any means. He is stating the obvious, that the DSM MIGHT state that being a pedophile is ok and not a mental issue. AND that it is possible to reduce the instances of child molestation through therapy. Hey, doing that is better than not treating it at all. And no it is NEVER ok to abuse a child, sexually OR physically!

Beautiful - posted on 08/26/2011

I also like the use of term "gay impulses". I have an "impulse" to give Dr. Keith 'Ablow' to the head.

Totally agree with you, on both comments.

See the difference is, and why things like pedophilla and beastiality will NEVER be socially acceptable is because they are acts committed on non-consensual parties. DUH. They are crimes because they are unwarrented, unwanted acts on children and animals. UNLIKE homosexuality which is between two consensual adults. Morons.

How can they not see it , how you posted? If they cant or dont, or wont see it as non-consensual, there is something seriously wrong and disturbed with these people.

Jenni - posted on 08/26/2011

I also like the use of term "gay impulses". I have an "impulse" to give Dr. Keith 'Ablow' to the head.

Just because you don't give into your gay 'impulses' doesn't turn you straight. Anymore than not giving heterosexual 'impulses' turns you gay.

Jenni - posted on 08/26/2011

It's fox news, big surprise they're using pedophilia as fear-mongering to push their anti-gay agenda.



Allowing gays to get married is going to pave the path for pedophillia and beastiality to be socially acceptable! Here's some obscure psychologist movement that's treating pedophilia like an addiction (in order to treat it) to prove it!

Told ya so!

I call BULLSHIT. Same record, different tune.



See the difference is, and why things like pedophilla and beastiality will NEVER be socially acceptable is because they are acts committed on non-consensual parties. DUH. They are crimes because they are unwarrented, unwanted acts on children and animals. UNLIKE homosexuality which is between two consensual adults. Morons.



But if Fox News can spin it, they will!



I love this quote (sarcasm): "psychiatry has a history of caving into cultural pressure to stop defining controversial illnesses as pathological. You won’t even find ego-dystonic homosexuality—meaning, homosexual impulses that cause an individual to feel distressed and which that individual does not want to give into—in the DSM, anymore."



Translation- Those gays don't even feel guilty anymore, they have this thing called Gay Pride. So let's squash that pride by comparing them to child rapists! Yah!

That'll teach 'em.

Kayla - posted on 08/26/2011

unbelievable.