Raising children religious or not

Krista - posted on 05/31/2009 ( 484 moms have responded )

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I've been reading some of the debate in the "homosexuality" thread, which, inevitably has turned into an argument between Christians and non-Christians, mainly. It makes me wonder how people are raising their kids; how many are raising their children in the religion (or lack of religion) that they grew up in, who was raised religious and doesn't want that for their kids, and who was raised without religion and has decided they want more for their kids. My husband was raised Catholic and attended Catholic school, but now does not practice religion at all, and I was raised without religion and this is how we intend to raise our children. I would also like to add that I didn't choose to raise my children without religion out of ignorance; I feel that I'm fairly educated about various religions, but I do not agree with much of what is taught and instead I want to instil in my kids my and my husband's own values rather than Christian values. I'm just curious how everyone came to the decision to raise their children with or without religious influence.

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Betsy - posted on 06/04/2009

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Quoting Rochelle:

"Train up a child in the way he/she should go, and when he/she is old he will not depart from it"
That's all I have to say.



Sounds nice, but we know it to be false just from this thread. How many "I was raised Christian and want nothing to do with it as an adult" posts do we have to read to know that is very untrue? 



 



Jodi--Great posts and very insightful, though without a level of self-awareness on someone's part, I do think your words will go without being understood unfortunately.

Rachel - posted on 06/04/2009

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"Scientists know that the bible is right..." ??? sorry but this is simply not correct. Scientists have varied opinions about the Bible just like everyone else. The Bible is not in the realm of science. And while archaeology can historically validate some events described in the Bible, it offers no proof that the Bible as a whole is right or wrong. And God's hand in the writing of the Bible is a matter of belief - there is no scientific way to prove or disprove it.

?? - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Rose:

Well I am a member of a Non- denominational church- we simply follow the bible....we don't add to it- we don't take from it. I also have a degree in science- and just to add to the discussion- Science has never disproved the existance of God- in fact more scientists are looking to the bible for answers!



The Bible was written by man. Who lived on this Earth. Even though scientists may look to the bible for answers, it definitely does not mean they will find them and when they do find answers in the bible it's simply because the bible has both fact and fiction. Which proves nothing really. Scientists also turn to other religious monuments like cathedrals, castles, sites for different things for ancient clues to put together the past that is not documented - the vast majority of ancient religious buildings were not only built as temples but with the intent to use strategically in case of military conflict.



I'm not really seeing your point by stating that except that from what I can recollect the times where scientists have turned to the bible is when they were exploring the bible and it's facts and fiction... perhaps there is more scientists that look in the bible but it was still made by man - they also look to Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Archimedes and other ancient texts. They even look to people who "predict" the future from many years ago, Nostradamus, for one. And every religion has any number of prophets that scientists turn to as well.



A parrallel would be - ancient civilizations speak of Atlantis and that it was real - doesn't mean that it was, doesn't mean that it wasn't. And in each different region of the world, "Atlantis" is referred to as something different. It hasn't been proven, hasn't been disproven. But it's spoken of, looked for and has just as many believers as non-believers. Some much more devoted to finding it than others and then some that do not believe at all.

Danielle - posted on 06/03/2009

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I had this same debate with myself when deciding to raise my child with religion. I was raised with some religion and some not. I came back to church recently and felt so at home and wanted the same thing for my son. I think the religioious influence is a little bit of a comfort. I've always felt comfortable in church. One of the things I have decided however is that I will never force my religious beliefs on my son. If there comes a time ever that he says mommy I don't want to go to church, while i may be hurt, that will be his decision. I can only hope to instil some of my values in him so that he can take those values and use them as a guideline for making good choices in life. Further more I applaud you for raising your children the way you want to raise your children and not raising them any certain way just because people tell you to.

Rachel - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Rose:

Well I am a member of a Non- denominational church- we simply follow the bible....we don't add to it- we don't take from it. I also have a degree in science- and just to add to the discussion- Science has never disproved the existance of God- in fact more scientists are looking to the bible for answers!


 



Science does not seek to prove or disprove the existence of God. Science seeks to understand the universe as it is. God is outside the scope of science.

Margaret - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Rose:

Well I am a member of a Non- denominational church- we simply follow the bible....we don't add to it- we don't take from it. I also have a degree in science- and just to add to the discussion- Science has never disproved the existance of God- in fact more scientists are looking to the bible for answers!



Oh no Rose! a believer AND a scientist! say it isn't so! :) again, I say, AMEN!

Margaret - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Rose:

I also will throw a spanner in...Jesus only established one church! Denominational churches are not from God but men....( here we go!)



Amen sister!

[deleted account]

No a baby is in a saved state- we become accountable for our sin when we chose not to do what God says. That is what the bible says- Faith comes from hearing the Word of God- If you love me keep my commands....

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Rose, I so agree with you on the denominational issue. There is a reason the original church was called Catholic--it means universal. We go to a denomination that doesn't use the word church unless referring to the body of believers who make up the "Church" which is the bride of Christ. We refer to the buildings as CHapels, Fellowships or Gospel Halls usually.

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I also will throw a spanner in...Jesus only established one church! Denominational churches are not from God but men....( here we go!)

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God created us- so He knows what is best for us. I was not raised in the church. But my husband and I are christian and we are raising our children to be- because that is what would be pleasing to God! and I don't want them to go to hell?

Rochelle - posted on 06/03/2009

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"Train up a child in the way he/she should go, and when he/she is old he will not depart from it"

That's all I have to say.

[deleted account]

Quoting Krista:



Quoting Katherine:

My husband and I are not religious but appreciate that other people are. We intend to teach this to our son in order that he can understand other people's beliefs and customs. We don't believe that you need to be religious in order to have good morals either. Indeed, you should be making the right choices about how to act because it is the right thing to do rather than because your god will punish you for doing something wrong.

My husband is a biologist and therefore acknowledges the sense of the theory of evolution. He believes that science has all the answers and that teaching a child to believe in a god is effectively lying to him/her when there is so much evidence to the contrary. He also feels the same way about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy etc - he feels that teaching children to believe in these characters then telling them later that they were only make up is dishonest. I don't have a problem with a bit of fantasy like this but agree that we need to be consistent. I worry that other children will be upset when our son gets to the age when he's telling other kids that Santa doesn't exist. I'd be interested to hear how other parents would handle this.





I was just thinking about Santa today, while reading some of these posts, actually!  In my mind, I don't know if God is any more "real" than Santa Claus, but I feel a lot more comfortable with the idea of teaching my kids about Santa.  I still remember the let down I felt when I learned that there was no such thing as Santa, but it's still so much a part of the magic of childhood that I want my children to experience it anyway.   I wonder what the devout Christians who've posted feel about Santa?  Is Christmas only about Christ for your family, or can you celebrate Christ and include Santa as well?  I'm curious!  I teach grade one in a public school, so Christmas is all reindeer, elves, and Santa, and no Christianity.  It's tricky, though, because you never know what parents have told their kids...who believes in Santa and who doesn't.  Anyway, I haven't answered your question at all...and went off on a tangent...but I'm interested, also, in how parents deal with that situation. 





Hi, I'll just give a brief synopsis of what we do for Christmas, in the way of Santa, ect. We are a Christian family and we don't endorse Santa or other make believe "people" who come out on holidays. Do my kids know who they are? Yep, but they know it the way they know any story--as fiction. We have taught them about the real St. Nick and what he did, but we don't promote Santa. In fact we rarely buy gifts for Christmas for our immediately family choosing instead to buy for "Toys for Tots" or those types of things. Part of the reason we don't do Santa is that 1) we don't want to lie to our kids, and 2) Christmas really is about Christ's birth and 3) how fair is it that Santa should only come to the rich families of the world. We lived in South Africa for several years and so the kids never knew Santa in the N.American sense until we moved back here and why should he suddenly begin giving them gifts when the kids in S. Africa that we worked with didn't get any? We prefer to use occasions as an opportunity to give rather than get. The kids still get lots of gifts from extended family and they feel the joy of giving to others. 



That's just my family. 

?? - posted on 06/03/2009

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I could (key word - could) have a conversation with you looking at both sides and being objective while still having my beliefs. But, you can not. You do not come off as objective, you put everything into the context of YOUR faith instead of trying to see it from any one elses point of view.



I would like to assume you have had a conversation with someone about something you don't know and you asked questions, objectively looked at, thought about and attempted to learn more about what you were talking about and continued the conversation about it without having to rely on information that is similar but not the same. Someone else's beliefs or non-belief is something that you can not have that conversation about though.



What I mean by dismissing - is not the literal sense of vocally denying their thought and opinion - you instead brush over what they said without really giving it any sincere thought, or so it seems to me with you subdued attempt to appear interested. By that I mean your "thank you for your thoughts" type of comments. Your questions that go no where after they have been answered. If you were truly interested in being "more informed" you would continue the questioning - otherwise your questions are almost patronizing. Like you are only asking the question in order to give yourself another reason to keep talking.



I said that your faith becomes irrelevant to any conversation that you have with someone who clearly says they do not believe the same that you do. That isn't an invitation for you to preach your beliefs. I am happy for you that you believe in something that I don't. It makes you happy and it makes you feel complete and all those good things, that doesn't mean that when I speak about myself, I want you to interject and try to 'teach me the way of the lord.'



Now I am only saying that this is how I am reading you - it's a one way street. In person you may be completely different and there would be a full two sided conversation but on this forum in this thread - it seems like you only want to delve into one side of the conversation with anyone and you keep the conversation going by asking questions that you don't follow up on.



I have never said what you are saying is wrong. I've said the opposite. I believe that what you are doing and saying is what you believe is right. I know that is what you are doing and saying.



You have also been directly and indirectly telling people to open their hearts to God etc - when they have said they don't believe in God or believe in something else other than your God - I think that is wrong. We're all grown adults here with the ability to make our own choices - if someone has already said "I do not believe in God" that is not an invitation for you to speak ONLY your faith. If someone says "I don't know what to believe." that means they are looking and you can speak of your faith, but if you're TOO fanatical about it - you're only going to turn them away. If they come to you and say "TEACH ME PLEASE I NEED YOUR GUIDANCE" by all means, that is an invitation.



The arrogance and insulting attitude comes from the subdued 'I'll ask a question but I don't really care, I just want to keep this going so I can speak of my faith and get the word out' kind of tone the majority of your posts have. I am not the only one that sees this in your posts - someone called it "argumentive listening" I believe they called it. That comes off as arrogant and is insulting to the person who you are asking the question too.



I was also pretty much on your side as well with an earlier post about what the lady had said to you, I was even trying to support you by saying take no mind of what she said - it is you who is living that life and that is how you feel is right. But you chose to ignore that.



The embarrassment was in regards to how you came back very offended that she would consider your method of teaching your child as emotional blackmail. In my experience, people that come back so defensive about something they adamantly proclaim being "what they feel is right" means that they considered that offensive thought, pondered it, doubted themselves for even a moment, felt a moment of embarrassment that someone would choose to describe their method in such a way and then feel as though maybe it is emotional blackmail but deny that idea and come back in full force with an offended attitude. That in no way is being embarrassed of your daughters death - embarrassment and denial are the thoughts and feelings people can have while they are confronted with something of such a nature. Which again - I was in your "side" on that one and you ignored that - and even twisted to mean something completely different than what I intended. That perhaps was my fault for not being the clearest with my explaination, but still, I do not know how to got what you got from what I said, no matter how I read it to myself.



I have dealt with death. And in no way do I need faith or God to get through it. That does not mean that I feel that you shouldn't need your faith or God. If that helps you that is great, I am very glad that you have that. I would be there in any way I possibly could for anyone who needed me when it comes to losing someone they love. I don't NEED to know all of it in your case, but I do know all that I need to know about how to deal with death and losing someone I love. I don't think any mother who has lost or will lose a child ever deal with that on every level even if they spend every day devoted to it.



It may be your job to identify opportunities and act on them and spread the word of God but there are people out there who do not care about the word of God and if you really feel that someone who obviously does not care about the word of god is an opportunity to act on it and speak of God, your not doing your job identifying the people that want or need your faith. We see it all the time, and it just ends up pissing people off, making them dislike the religion even more so and ultimately spreading hate and negativity for your faith instead of identifying the people who actually want to hear it and spreading the word of your God and positivity for your faith. I honestly would have thought - in the last 10-15 years - since I can remember people of different religions going door to door, by now these peoples would realize that by going after the people who do not believe you are not helping your faith at all. Your conversion statistics would probably go up astromotically if you stopped wasting your time on the people who really don't care and say it.



There are plenty of ways of telling your child that they can see their sister on this earth - all they have to do is close their eyes. My family used to tell the children that were too young to understand death - "When you see a pretty flower, that is Grandpa. When you see a butterfly, that is Grandpa. Whenever your heart feels good, you can close your eyes, and you will see Grandpa."



I do have a simple question it may be irrelevant to the original post but I am wondering if you can have a "relationship" with God while he is there and you are here, is it different for you to have a "relationship" with your daughter while she is there and you are here? I really am sincerely curious. I think it's beautiful that your son had such a close connection with his sister and it is really sad that he lost her without ever knowing her. I feel for your son and for you to have gone through that and it is comforting at that age to have that continuity in your faith. Do you have closure though? How do you teach your child closure? About dealing with these things in this life so that his life and your own can "move on"?



I don't believe in God. I have no reason to believe in God. If my child can find reason to believe in God, I would only be hindering his life from being complete on his own to deny him that belief. I don't feel that God is wrong, I just don't believe he exists. I think that organized religion is nothing but another corporation in this day and age. My son will have access to anything he ever wants to learn about as far as Gods, religions, faiths go. Everything from Christianity to Wicca to African tribes if he so pleases and I know he will choose what he wants to believe in and be educated in his faith. Until that time comes though where he is in a position to make that decision on his own, I feel that my job as his mom is to teach him how to be an honest, open, reasonable, comapssionate and caring human being who is on this earth so he can live, learn and love.



I have nothing against you or your faith, I simply read what I read and hope that I am reading you correctly. And if I am not, that seriously sucks. I hope that you can read this whole ginormous post with an open mind, at least open enough to see my points without prejudice of your faith. If not, I respect that and I will be waiting to hear from you regarding my questions. If you do not wish to post your answers here, I understand.

Krista - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Katherine:

My husband and I are not religious but appreciate that other people are. We intend to teach this to our son in order that he can understand other people's beliefs and customs. We don't believe that you need to be religious in order to have good morals either. Indeed, you should be making the right choices about how to act because it is the right thing to do rather than because your god will punish you for doing something wrong.

My husband is a biologist and therefore acknowledges the sense of the theory of evolution. He believes that science has all the answers and that teaching a child to believe in a god is effectively lying to him/her when there is so much evidence to the contrary. He also feels the same way about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy etc - he feels that teaching children to believe in these characters then telling them later that they were only make up is dishonest. I don't have a problem with a bit of fantasy like this but agree that we need to be consistent. I worry that other children will be upset when our son gets to the age when he's telling other kids that Santa doesn't exist. I'd be interested to hear how other parents would handle this.


I was just thinking about Santa today, while reading some of these posts, actually!  In my mind, I don't know if God is any more "real" than Santa Claus, but I feel a lot more comfortable with the idea of teaching my kids about Santa.  I still remember the let down I felt when I learned that there was no such thing as Santa, but it's still so much a part of the magic of childhood that I want my children to experience it anyway.   I wonder what the devout Christians who've posted feel about Santa?  Is Christmas only about Christ for your family, or can you celebrate Christ and include Santa as well?  I'm curious!  I teach grade one in a public school, so Christmas is all reindeer, elves, and Santa, and no Christianity.  It's tricky, though, because you never know what parents have told their kids...who believes in Santa and who doesn't.  Anyway, I haven't answered your question at all...and went off on a tangent...but I'm interested, also, in how parents deal with that situation. 

[deleted account]

Quoting Libby:


Quoting Jodi:





And as far as teaching our children about death in an earthly manner and that they know those things that you mentioned that is what I meant we can't be fooled as to think that there aren't people out there who believe cause they have faith that there is heaven that they don't take that into their own hands and kill themselves or others. We may not know those people personally - but there are those people.



 







I respectfully just have to dispute this entire thought here.  You cannot get into Heaven by committing suicide.  Not sure if there's a loop hole around that or not, but I have never heard of one.  So, if someone has thought that then they are severely misguided and haven't read the Bible.  As for those that murder, that is a whole different topic not really associated with raising children so I won't go into it as I don't want to derail this topic any further.







Hope you don't mind me jumping into this conversation since I haven't seen Jodi respond yet. When I read her post, I was thinking of suicide bombers - they think it is okay if they die serving their god because there's a life after this one to enjoy. I'd bet that guy who shot and killed a prominent abortion doctor this past Sunday also thought he was going something righteous. That's pretty much the whole idea behind martyrdom. You and I may think they are misguided, but I'd bet they're pretty sure of their beliefs if they're willing to kill themselves. This is how that hope for the afterlife can be distorted by those who do evil.




But since my family does not believe there is anything after this life, I have to imagine we approach the ideas of life and death differently than Christians do. I don't have a next life to focus on, so I put the focus on this life and what I can do here and now to impact and improve the world. I don't by any means think that religious people don't worry about the here and now, but our priorities are certainly different in that regard. Many people seem to think atheism is narcissistic, but for me, the thought that this is all we have makes life all the more precious. Personally, I think both my approach and yours likely have their own unique challenges in instilling our values in our children.

Katherine - posted on 06/03/2009

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My husband and I are not religious but appreciate that other people are. We intend to teach this to our son in order that he can understand other people's beliefs and customs. We don't believe that you need to be religious in order to have good morals either. Indeed, you should be making the right choices about how to act because it is the right thing to do rather than because your god will punish you for doing something wrong.



My husband is a biologist and therefore acknowledges the sense of the theory of evolution. He believes that science has all the answers and that teaching a child to believe in a god is effectively lying to him/her when there is so much evidence to the contrary. He also feels the same way about Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy etc - he feels that teaching children to believe in these characters then telling them later that they were only make up is dishonest. I don't have a problem with a bit of fantasy like this but agree that we need to be consistent. I worry that other children will be upset when our son gets to the age when he's telling other kids that Santa doesn't exist. I'd be interested to hear how other parents would handle this.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Erin:

hi!
wow! the last post is just down right nasty!!!! i find the last person libby to be exactly what she is repromanding you for!
anyway!
i am not at all religious i find it ridiculous! i do how ever allow my children to study religion at school! because i feel that they need to (& will!) make an appropriate choice when they are older as to what they believe in! it is not upto me to tell them that god doesnt exsist! or the job of my husband! i am totally with you! i believe that good moral values & a belief in loving & respecting everyone is far more important then what a book says!
i disagree with the bible in many parts it is nothing but a mans perspective of how the world should be rather then what it actually is! i don't care if my children come home & tell me they are gay! is really that bigger of a deal? why? because god says so? what a load of rubbish! if your children are happy, loving, respectful, non-judgemental ect. because of the way you have raised them then you know you have done a wonderful job! & are we disgusting people because we don't believe? NO! does it make us less of a person because we don't believe? NO! so when my kids are older & if they choose this so called path of god then so be it! it is not my job to tell them they cant! all i can do is allow them now to experience religion for themselves & let them create they're own path not!
goodluck!
your a great mum!
erin...



Hi Erin, I saw my name here.  I wasn't sure if you were wanting me to reply in some way.  I can't quite understand what you were trying to say about reprimanding.  At any rate, it's really nobody's duty to reprimand anybody.  This is a public forum.  I would like to say that I am glad you are open to letting your children choose a path that you have not chosen for yourself.  It sounds like you are being supportive in that way to them.  Perhaps in these situaitons, support is all the child will get, and hopefully that is enough no matter how little or big.  Best of luck to you and your family.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Carla:

I too am learning every day more and more about my Savior and how He wants me to live. God Bless each of you. You only have 18 years with this child of yours. Hust look at a yardstick and see where your child's age is and how much time you have to influence them for the better.



That reminds me of the saying that "we are our children's best teacher."  It is our job to teach them and if we leave it up to society then we really don't have a reason to complain about how they turn out.  I'm referring to teaching them about God, but really it applies to so many facets of life.  When my daughter died I read something a woman had wrote about the death of her child.  She said "if it is our job as parents to get our children to Heaven, then I have succeeded with one."  We can do all that we can do to instill those good morals in our children but in the end we have to rely on them to follow through.  I am glad to know one of my children has made it to Heaven.  It is a bittersweet thing, don't get me wrong.  But now I must continue in my duty as a parent and help the rest of my children get to Heaven as well.  That is my responsibility as a parent and I want to use these 18 years wisely! 

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

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Oh Jodi, sorry if something didn't make sense. I didn't really review or spell check before I posted since it was such a long post already. Gotta get a move on this evening and get ready for a busy day tomorrow. If something didn't make sense to you just let me know and I'll try to explain it better. One thing about me is I'm a talker, on the phone, text, internet etc. So, I tried to limit my posting so it wasn't so long, but don't think I did to great of a job at that tonight. :-)

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Jodi:

Libby, I guess what my whole point was that it bothers me that I could go on having a conversation with you about raising your child with religion but you can not have a conversation with me about raising my child without religion. Nor do you really try.



I'm sorry Jodi if you tried to have this conversation with me.  If I missed something that you wanted me to discuss with you please point it out to me. 




Asking a question about someone else's faith is one thing - but dismissing someone who does not believe in God at all is another, you ignore that and you talk about your faith. You said it yourself, you respond with words of your faith. But that alone dismisses my thoughts and opinions. (I'll elaborate a lil further down.)



 



I have not dismissed anybody.  You keep saying that.  But if someone is having a conversation with me how would you want me to respond?  I can only reply with what I know.  My experiences and faith shape my values and opinions.  I am not ignoring anybody but if I cannot relate and want to have a discussion with someone I can only speak to what I know and what I can relate to.  It doesn't mean I am not hearing you.  It means I want to have a conversation about what you AND I know.  You tell me what you know and I'll tell you what I know.  I can't make up what I don't know.  And my words of faith are just that...mine. 

Your faith has no relevancy on how I would raise my child. We can all go blue in the face discussing what parts of the bible are fact and what are fiction. We can discuss God and Jesus and Mary and Joseph, but the second the conversation turns to someone who doesn't believe in God - the conversation is automatically turned back around, and the idea that God doesn't exist is dismissed. It's like asking "Why?" and then someone saying "Why not?" but instead of exploring the Why Not aspect, the only attention you pay to the conversation is the Why aspect.



You have truly lost me here.  If my faith has no relevancy with how you raise your child, then why engage with me on this topic?  If you want to know more about my faith, feel free to ask.  If you don't there's no point in replying to anything I have said in any of my posts.  However, you can entertain the idea that God doesn't exist if you want while I remain faithful to my God and know that He does exist.  Why would I entertain the idea that He doesn't exist if I KNOW that to not be true?  It's like telling me something is gray when it is clearly black.  You can tell me that He doesn't exist, I can see that you feel you have a valid point, but it changes nothing for me.  It just tells me that what you think is true. 




I find it almost sad that you seem to expect everyone to only listen to and talk about your side of the "two different sides." When in fact there are way beyond 2 different sides. And then the close minded comments - I am far from close minded - I will learn about anything and I am open to talk about it and learn about it - but only if the other person/people are open to talk about it and learn about the other side as well. From what I can see in your posts - like I said - you are polite and you are nice, you ask a question you say thank you for your thoughts but you completely dismiss what anyone is saying other than what you agree with as if they had wasted their time even posting. It's redundant. It's quite insulting and is one of the reasons why people are calling you arrogant.



 



I meant no disrespect about saying you were close minded, I truly didn't.  You said what I had to say was irrelevant, so I really only meant you were close minded as to what I had to say.  I was just going by what you said, I felt by you telling me what I say is irrelevant then I was wondering what the point on continuing the conversation was.  I don't have a problem continuing discussing things with you if you honestly want to carry on a conversation.  But at this point you're only saying what you think what I'm doing or saying is wrong.  Well, you can have your opinion.  I can't take that away from you.  Just like you can't take my faith away from me.  We are really just talking about moot issues it seems.  Also, you keep repeating that I am dismissing things people are saying.  I've heard your point on this several times in this post and several times in the last.  I again have to just simply disagree with you.  I do not just post to people who agree with me or that I agree with.  And I have had pleasant conversations with those that I don't agree with or that don't agree with me.  If one or two people posting to me have a certain agenda I can politely skip over what they have to say and had tried to do that until I was disturbed by a post about dealing with the death of my daughter.  I can call people out on their words just like they think they can call me out on mine.  I tried to difuse the situation and asked to just agree to disagree at that point, but it didn't stop there.  After that I recollected my thoughts through prayer and just tried to move forward.  I do believe that person has wasted their time posting to me.  If that is insulting or arrogant, I can only apologize for the way it comes across, but it's not something that I am required to deal with because we are posting in the same thread.

As for a couple of the replies to what I said earlier... I have been following the whole thread. I don't have the time to reply to every single post though, I only chose yours cause I found it highly hypocritical after reading everything you had been saying to everyone else and then for you to turn around and expect that woman to do what you can't/won't and don't give any sincere attempts to do.



 



It is hard to post to every thread.  That is why I have picked ones I have agreed with and ones I haven't.  I'm not sure what I asked of someone else that I wouldn't do myself.  As I said above I asked to just agree to disagree and move on and stop commenting on things pertaining to me and talking about my children.  I was insulted and it was beyond the topic of this thread and felt I had the right to ask this of her.  It was something I was willing to do that's why I suggested it (agree to disagree). 

I never said anything about being embarrassed about losing your child, so I'm really not too sure where you got that from...



Here's what you said about being embarrassed:



"You already know that no one can tell you how to deal with your daughters death. And regardless of whether someone says anything - if you know what you are doing is how you need to do it - why bother with what someone else says? Generally I find that when people become offended by comments like that it means that they have some doubt about what they are doing and that there may be some truth to what that person is saying and being offended comes from embarrassment or denial. "





Really at this point I see no need in going into that any further.  You can explain yourself if you feel you need to do so.  But this was all in direct reflection on how I dealt with my daughter's death.  And really, how would anybody here know how I dealt with it on a whole to begin with?  I discussed the faith aspect of how we are trying to move forward as a family by what we teach our children about death.  I didn't discuss any of the physical aspects of it, emotional aspects, life style changes, etc.  What I discussed was my faith in seeing her again in Heaven and letting my children know they will see her again too.  There is more to grieving the death of a child than just your faith, but luckily that plays a large part of it and helps you get through some of the other aspects.  Anyway, I'm sure you don't need or want to know all of it, nor is this the correct place to do so, so that is an overview.





And as far as teaching our children about death in an earthly manner and that they know those things that you mentioned that is what I meant we can't be fooled as to think that there aren't people out there who believe cause they have faith that there is heaven that they don't take that into their own hands and kill themselves or others. We may not know those people personally - but there are those people.



 



I respectfully just have to dispute this entire thought here.  You cannot get into Heaven by committing suicide.  Not sure if there's a loop hole around that or not, but I have never heard of one.  So, if someone has thought that then they are severely misguided and haven't read the Bible.  As for those that murder, that is a whole different topic not really associated with raising children so I won't go into it as I don't want to derail this topic any further.

I was saying it is our responsibility to teach that aspect as well. And with your faith being SO strong - replying with words of your faith to everything everyone says... our children also need to know that not everyone believes as we do. And it is NOT their responsibility to push their belief onto everyone they meet. That in itself could become very dangerous for themselves. A lot of people don't "fight" with words. Of course this is extreme but it happens. And it is our responsibility as parents to teach that, and practice it.





I agree.  There are opportunities to witness to others that are given to each and every Christian.  It is our job to identify those opportunities and act on them.  But it is our responsibility to witness and spread God's word. 

I didn't say dismissive in every post - I said nearly every post. You give your half assed "Thank you for your thoughts" and then dismiss what they said and go on about your faith again. You will never change my mind and I will never change yours, but we could both converse in a manner that respects, discusses and explores BOTH of the "two different sides". Which is what I will be teaching my child to do, and I will also teach him that if that other person can only discuss their side, he should walk away from the conversation cause it's a waste of breath and will only lead to an argument.



Not really sure what to respond to here because it seems like it's sorta already been said so to cut down on length I won't make a reply here.

"Like that" is referring to the post that I was quoting from. I guess I wasn't too clear on that, my apologies.

Personally, I agree with that woman. That telling a small child that the only way they will see their dead sibling is in heaven, is not the best way to go about it. But it's YOUR way, and I respect that. I don't see that as an emotionally healthy way to deal with death. I'm glad that you have explained to them that when people die they are cremated or buried in the ground etc because that is healthy to me. But I am not you, and your way is your way and if it's working for you, that's great. I just wouldn't go about it that way.



Of course you would not agree with me on this because you have already said you don't believe that.  I don't know how to explain it any better to you.  If you have another way to tell a child about seeing their sibling in Heaven other than just simply saying, "you will see your sister again in Heaven", then I'd love to discuss that with you.  But as a Christian child that has been raised to know God is loving and that when we believe in Him we will go to Heaven, it is comforting to a child to know that when they get to Heaven they will not be alone.  I know it is comforting to me that I will be able to have the relationship with my daughter that I never got to have on Earth.  This has also been the hardest for my oldest son who was 6 when this all happened.  He had a very strong connection with his sister while she was in my womb.  He knew I was pregnant before I even missed period.  He was talking about his sister about the time I could've conceived.  From the beginning he knew it was a girl and spoke about his sister in a very matter of fact way like he already knew who she was.  He even called her by name, so we ended up naming her after what he called her because he had such a deep connection with her from the start.  I can't explain how or why but he just knew her.  And to take that connection away from a child with no hope of having that connection again is devastating.  I didn't even have that connection with her and she was in my womb.  I didn't even think it was possible for me to get pregnant (won't go into that) but to have been told my 6 year old about his baby sister I thought he was just being silly.  Anyway, to try not to ramble on too much about this, my point was really to just say that if there is a better way to explain Heaven to a child that believes in Heaven then I'd love to hear it.  But we have told our children we will see her again in Heaven because that's what we believe.  It is not emotional blackmail, it is our faith pure and simple.




If God justifies your faith - then you shouldn't have this incessant need to make sure everyone else, regardless of their beliefs, believe the same that you believe. The fact that you are so adamant about pushing your beliefs into everything anyone has to say makes me feel as though you need everyone else to believe it too or your faith would be cracked. Which it won't be - but if you loosen up a lil bit - maybe your life will be more fullfilled and you will become "more informed" as you said previously.



I'm trying not to make my posts too long so again, since this sounds like a little of the same from above I'll just skip over it.  It's not meant to dismiss anything you have to say.  If you want me to address something here, please point it out to me. 




When the world ends, I know where I will be. I don't believe in God. My son will believe in or not believe in anything he wants to believe in, and I will make sure he has every opportunity to learn about anything he wants to learn before or while he is making his decision. I don't think you will be giving your children the same luxury and that is your choice, as long as they're happy, it doesn't matter. I just hope that the children that are religious are also taught that other people aren't always going to agree with them and that is okay too.



Why would I want my children to believe in something that I don't?  You said you don't believe in God but it's OK if your son does.  If you feel it is wrong you're telling me you would not pass down your own beliefs to him?  It almost sounds to me like you are unsure so it's OK if maybe he believes in God one day as long as it makes him happy.  I don't want to assume anything but I am sure on what I believe and that's what I pass down to my children.  No, my children will not have the "luxury" to choose something that goes against our beliefs, as long as they are under my care.  And while they are under my care I will keep instilling my beliefs in them to continue to make good choices when they are adults. 




So as I said I will teach my son and I will practice what I will teach him - when the other person is only willing to discuss themselves I will walk away. I have laundry to do and dinner to prepare. Thank you for your thoughts Libby. Take care.



Hope you had a good evening.  Good Night!





 

Laura - posted on 06/03/2009

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I raised my daughter in a religious household and when she was older, she turned away from what she calls organized religion so I think that giving your children the information about God allows them to accept or reject those values and to be able to do it intelligently. I have to accept her decision whether or not I think it is wrong.

Shirley - posted on 06/03/2009

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I agree with you... U raise ur children how u see fit just as I will mine... I choose to raise them in church and reading in the bible , but that is what works for me and my family .. I wont judge you on how you do so in your house...thats for you to choose,,, Im not saying mine is any more right than yours..

Shirley - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Megan:

Raise your children to be good, honest, loving, compassionate people. Teach your children to harm none. Give your kids SOMETHING to believe in! Heck... kids don't have to have a bible to know these things! Me and my husband have different religious beliefs and we will raise our child with both! I think that many (not all) "Christians" act like bigots and instill that in their children- missing the point entirely. If you do raise your children to follow Christ... treat them to be accepting and loving AS CHRIST WAS... and remember "he who has not sinned may cast the first stone"

sorry i don't often rant like that but *some people* infuriate me


 

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Sabrina:



i totally agree. i have experienced the same things in life. my favorite poem is Footprints. it always reminds me that God is there.






I too love Footprints.  My daughter's urn looks like it's sand with tiny footprints in it.  Reminds me of the poem and reminds me of her tiny little feet.  That's why I paid double for it than what a plain old urn costs.  Felt it meant something special.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):

I'm sorry to do this I have no clue how this works yet, or how to start a thread with all of you already here, a question if you please?
What should one expect of Heaven? Obviously I understand that there is no sickness or hunger there, and once there you will be reunited with loved ones. but.. what age will you be, I miscarried a daughter, hypothetically speaking IF I was a christian and made it to Heaven by accepting God...will she be a baby, a child, a teen? I have missed out on parenting her in this life, do I get to parent her in the next? I am having trouble with this eternity thing too...it is a loooong time, do you spend you time in heaven with everyone and i mean ALL the deceased throughout the ages, how much room is there?
I know I sound stupid but I had never thought about this til today whilst reviewing all these posts. BTW thank again you Krista for starting this thread, I'm sorry to come in like this.



Right above where you choose what thread you want to visit and the top right it says "New Conversation".  If you click on that you can start your own thread.  I would love to try to answer some of this if you start your own thread.  I don't want to derail the intentions of this thread but I think this could be a good conversation.  I'll look and see if you get it posted!

LaCi - posted on 06/03/2009

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I'm an atheist, I'll answer any questions, take him to any religious place, buy him any books, whatever he wants. But I absolutely will not raise him with any particular set of beliefs, because that is his choice. It's his journey of discovery, I'll be there, but I wont force anything.

Sabrina - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Brittany:



Quoting Sabrina:




Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):

I'm sorry to do this I have no clue how this works yet, or how to start a thread with all of you already here, a question if you please?
What should one expect of Heaven? Obviously I understand that there is no sickness or hunger there, and once there you will be reunited with loved ones. but.. what age will you be, I miscarried a daughter, hypothetically speaking IF I was a christian and made it to Heaven by accepting God...will she be a baby, a child, a teen? I have missed out on parenting her in this life, do I get to parent her in the next? I am having trouble with this eternity thing too...it is a loooong time, do you spend you time in heaven with everyone and i mean ALL the deceased throughout the ages, how much room is there?
I know I sound stupid but I had never thought about this til today whilst reviewing all these posts. BTW thank again you Krista for starting this thread, I'm sorry to come in like this.







im going to do my best to answer your question. my aunt is good at things like this but she is at work. but if you want anymore info let me know. i will talk to her tonite and find out. i do know that our spiritual body is different from this body. and it is our spirit that goes to heaven. everyone will look different but you will know them. I couldnt find in the bible about babies that die and their age in heaven but i did find that old men will be like youth again. as for room it is beyond what we can imagine. also the earth at the end will become new again. and we will live here too. also there is no age. yes we will parent our children. but it will be like old times. we will farm and build our own houses. but we will have everything we will ever need. and it will be wonderful. i hope i was able to give you some lite.










I'd like more info from you or your aunt. How do you know this and anything else to it, please. I'd appreciate it lots.






i will be glad to answer any of your questions to the best of my ability. as to where i get my answers i get them from the Bible to me it is the book that i am to follow and learn what God has to teach. and yes everyone wants to say it was written by man and so forth. but it was changed only to define for the different languages. just like any book that is written in different languages so poeple can understand so is the Bible.  but the meaning behind it is the same.

Amie - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:



Quoting Bridie:

I'm sure this is going to be hideously confrontational to some people but I really want to point out that the Bible has been scientifically proven.... Its also been scientifically proven that the big bang couldn't have happened and evolution is impossible.... I'll post references when I can find them coz I did a study on it :)






who was the study done by... out of curiousity... cuz i'm pretty sure no one aside from you have heard nething about the big bang and evolution being proven to be impossible? infact there was just a special on history international about the missing link... scientists have just recently discovered pristine fossilized remains of the link between dinosaur and primate... if evolution was disproven... i'm pretty sure scientists would be admitting to it world wide... or is it just some worldwide conspiriacy among scientists of all disciplines, cultures and countries... it would also be all over the news... so really i'd like to know how credible *your* sources are... and where exactly you studied them... something tells me they were concocted by some religious nuts





Sorry I'm not as nice as Jennifer but HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Wow......

Sabrina - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Brittany:



Quoting Catherine:




Quoting FredSusan:





Quoting Catherine:

This is one thing that confuses me in Christian religion. You don't believe in the idea of evolution of man, right? Adam and Eve were the originals? Wouldn't that have to mean we all have to be descendants of incest? Isn't that a sin? I'm not trying to be offensive I'd just like an opinion on this.









This is from an excerpt of the writing of  a guy named Ray Comfort.  He's great at answering the hard questions.  "Many ask this question thinking they've found a mistake in the Bible that there must have been other people besides Adam & Eve.  Scripture tells us that Adam is the first man (1Cor.15:45); that there were no other humans when he was created, because God said, It is not good that the man should be alone (Gen. 2:18); and that Eve is the mother of all living (Gen 3:20).  Cain and Abel, then, must have married distant sisters.  All of the first-generation siblings married each other in order to populate the earth.  At that time there was no law against incest.  But as the population grew large enough, and as the risk of genetic problems increased because of sin's curse, God outlawed marriage between siblings."  










This is just something I found.  It is a man's opinion that I respect, don't know what to think of it myself.  I just didn't want you to think that your question wasn't worth the time to try to answer.  Great question!  Like I said, Ray Comfort has done lots of research and is able to answer lots of questions like these.  Google him and check it out.  












Thank you for your answer. My take on Genesis and the seven days of creation has always taken a more metophorical meaning. Seven days to man may be 700 billion years to God. A which point evolution comes in to play as Gods plan. But it's important for me to understand what others believe, and to do that I need to ask questions. The same as I hope my children will do!









I wonder about something:






I stated early about my belief that Genesis 1 and 2 are different stories. The Bible doesn't say how long a god's day is. Like you said it could mean 700 billion years. Genesis 1 tells the creation of the earth and everything on it (including water animals), God says let us create them in our image and then he creates them in his own image. I think this was done through evolution. Throughout this chapter God is referred to God Almighty, this chapter goes days 1 through 6. Chapter 2 starts with... "And on the 7th day God rested. And Lord God..." I think Lord God is a different God. I think he created Eden, a garden, on the earth that God Almighty already created. One difference in the two stories is that Lord God didn't create water animals. Another discrepency between the two stories is that the first chapter is the creation of "male and female" the second is "man and woman". I wonder if male and female are the more animal like early humans. I wonder if the second god breathing life into Adam and Eve is what gave them "souls" (concience),






According to fundamental christians, adam and eve were the first so we all came from incest. However, if my theory is true, then when they left Eden other humans were there, they were just more animal like and they could have mated.






See, this is just an idea or theory to me. I know a lot of people are going to think I'm crazy, but this is what I saw when I read the first two chapters of Genesis. I think I got to Exodus and it seemed to me like the first God of the Bible left the people alone while the second liked to interfere with the humans (like the tower of babble).






 






Sorry, I didn't mean to throw my thoughts out there, but I couldn't help it.






i just wanted to say a few things regaurding this post. yes in the begining brothers and sisters would have children and marry. as for cain and abel. abel did not he was murdered by cain. the reason they populated the earth so quickly back then was because poeple lived for years. adam for instance lived for 930 years. so it was a long time. and no God's days are no different then now. so yes God did create the earth in 6 days he rested on the seventh. God made it law against incest when he helped moses free the isrealites from egypt. when they were going to the land of canaan.



 



also for the qote about the different names in the different chapters it is the same God just different forms of His name. God has many names.

Erin - posted on 06/03/2009

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hi!

wow! the last post is just down right nasty!!!! i find the last person libby to be exactly what she is repromanding you for!

anyway!

i am not at all religious i find it ridiculous! i do how ever allow my children to study religion at school! because i feel that they need to (& will!) make an appropriate choice when they are older as to what they believe in! it is not upto me to tell them that god doesnt exsist! or the job of my husband! i am totally with you! i believe that good moral values & a belief in loving & respecting everyone is far more important then what a book says!

i disagree with the bible in many parts it is nothing but a mans perspective of how the world should be rather then what it actually is! i don't care if my children come home & tell me they are gay! is really that bigger of a deal? why? because god says so? what a load of rubbish! if your children are happy, loving, respectful, non-judgemental ect. because of the way you have raised them then you know you have done a wonderful job! & are we disgusting people because we don't believe? NO! does it make us less of a person because we don't believe? NO! so when my kids are older & if they choose this so called path of god then so be it! it is not my job to tell them they cant! all i can do is allow them now to experience religion for themselves & let them create they're own path not!

goodluck!

your a great mum!

erin...

Esther - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Brittany:



Quoting Catherine:




Quoting FredSusan:





Quoting Catherine:

This is one thing that confuses me in Christian religion. You don't believe in the idea of evolution of man, right? Adam and Eve were the originals? Wouldn't that have to mean we all have to be descendants of incest? Isn't that a sin? I'm not trying to be offensive I'd just like an opinion on this.









This is from an excerpt of the writing of  a guy named Ray Comfort.  He's great at answering the hard questions.  "Many ask this question thinking they've found a mistake in the Bible that there must have been other people besides Adam & Eve.  Scripture tells us that Adam is the first man (1Cor.15:45); that there were no other humans when he was created, because God said, It is not good that the man should be alone (Gen. 2:18); and that Eve is the mother of all living (Gen 3:20).  Cain and Abel, then, must have married distant sisters.  All of the first-generation siblings married each other in order to populate the earth.  At that time there was no law against incest.  But as the population grew large enough, and as the risk of genetic problems increased because of sin's curse, God outlawed marriage between siblings."  










This is just something I found.  It is a man's opinion that I respect, don't know what to think of it myself.  I just didn't want you to think that your question wasn't worth the time to try to answer.  Great question!  Like I said, Ray Comfort has done lots of research and is able to answer lots of questions like these.  Google him and check it out.  












Thank you for your answer. My take on Genesis and the seven days of creation has always taken a more metophorical meaning. Seven days to man may be 700 billion years to God. A which point evolution comes in to play as Gods plan. But it's important for me to understand what others believe, and to do that I need to ask questions. The same as I hope my children will do!









I wonder about something:






I stated early about my belief that Genesis 1 and 2 are different stories. The Bible doesn't say how long a god's day is. Like you said it could mean 700 billion years. Genesis 1 tells the creation of the earth and everything on it (including water animals), God says let us create them in our image and then he creates them in his own image. I think this was done through evolution. Throughout this chapter God is referred to God Almighty, this chapter goes days 1 through 6. Chapter 2 starts with... "And on the 7th day God rested. And Lord God..." I think Lord God is a different God. I think he created Eden, a garden, on the earth that God Almighty already created. One difference in the two stories is that Lord God didn't create water animals. Another discrepency between the two stories is that the first chapter is the creation of "male and female" the second is "man and woman". I wonder if male and female are the more animal like early humans. I wonder if the second god breathing life into Adam and Eve is what gave them "souls" (concience),






According to fundamental christians, adam and eve were the first so we all came from incest. However, if my theory is true, then when they left Eden other humans were there, they were just more animal like and they could have mated.






See, this is just an idea or theory to me. I know a lot of people are going to think I'm crazy, but this is what I saw when I read the first two chapters of Genesis. I think I got to Exodus and it seemed to me like the first God of the Bible left the people alone while the second liked to interfere with the humans (like the tower of babble).






 






Sorry, I didn't mean to throw my thoughts out there, but I couldn't help it.





The Bible can be such a point of contention... Some people take it literally, others look at it figuratively.  I think the Bible holds many lessons that are important to keep and pass on to our children.   But I try to keep in mind that the Bible has been translated and edited many, many times throughout the ages and people are not perfect.  We make mistakes.  Some say that there are missing books in the Bible and that these are being "held hostage" by the Catholic Church.  (But that's a different subject)  There are also different versions.  New International, King James... it can be a bit confusing. I too have noticed inconsistencies, if you will.    Whenever I reach for the Bible, I try to take a moment to ask God to give me discernment and guidance so that I can understand the message he wants me to receive from him at that very moment.  I know this little tid bit doesn't clear up any great mystery but I thought I would share it anyway.   Have a great day ladies. :-)

Susan - posted on 06/03/2009

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Hello Krista, I'm 51 and have raised 2 wonderful young men. I was raised Lutheran until my dads drinking became more important than my religous training. To somewhat I agree with you that you need to raise your child the best way you know. Both my sons were raised :in the church: and they made up their own minds after they had all the facts. Now they love jesus, but they don't practice their beliefs as I do,. I do believe that there is only 1 God and His son Jesus. Now what I do with that is my personal business. I know without Him, I wouldn't be alive now, nor would my sons.

Yupawadee(Bird) - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Brittany:



Quoting Sabrina:




Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):

I'm sorry to do this I have no clue how this works yet, or how to start a thread with all of you already here, a question if you please?
What should one expect of Heaven? Obviously I understand that there is no sickness or hunger there, and once there you will be reunited with loved ones. but.. what age will you be, I miscarried a daughter, hypothetically speaking IF I was a christian and made it to Heaven by accepting God...will she be a baby, a child, a teen? I have missed out on parenting her in this life, do I get to parent her in the next? I am having trouble with this eternity thing too...it is a loooong time, do you spend you time in heaven with everyone and i mean ALL the deceased throughout the ages, how much room is there?
I know I sound stupid but I had never thought about this til today whilst reviewing all these posts. BTW thank again you Krista for starting this thread, I'm sorry to come in like this.







im going to do my best to answer your question. my aunt is good at things like this but she is at work. but if you want anymore info let me know. i will talk to her tonite and find out. i do know that our spiritual body is different from this body. and it is our spirit that goes to heaven. everyone will look different but you will know them. I couldnt find in the bible about babies that die and their age in heaven but i did find that old men will be like youth again. as for room it is beyond what we can imagine. also the earth at the end will become new again. and we will live here too. also there is no age. yes we will parent our children. but it will be like old times. we will farm and build our own houses. but we will have everything we will ever need. and it will be wonderful. i hope i was able to give you some lite.










I'd like more info from you or your aunt. How do you know this and anything else to it, please. I'd appreciate it lots.





sounds just like how I am living my life here with all my renovations going on except I am missing a few loved ones and I am getting older all the time. lol! but seriously, sounds like idyllic and Heaven to me. thanks

Brittany - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Sabrina:



Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):

I'm sorry to do this I have no clue how this works yet, or how to start a thread with all of you already here, a question if you please?
What should one expect of Heaven? Obviously I understand that there is no sickness or hunger there, and once there you will be reunited with loved ones. but.. what age will you be, I miscarried a daughter, hypothetically speaking IF I was a christian and made it to Heaven by accepting God...will she be a baby, a child, a teen? I have missed out on parenting her in this life, do I get to parent her in the next? I am having trouble with this eternity thing too...it is a loooong time, do you spend you time in heaven with everyone and i mean ALL the deceased throughout the ages, how much room is there?
I know I sound stupid but I had never thought about this til today whilst reviewing all these posts. BTW thank again you Krista for starting this thread, I'm sorry to come in like this.





im going to do my best to answer your question. my aunt is good at things like this but she is at work. but if you want anymore info let me know. i will talk to her tonite and find out. i do know that our spiritual body is different from this body. and it is our spirit that goes to heaven. everyone will look different but you will know them. I couldnt find in the bible about babies that die and their age in heaven but i did find that old men will be like youth again. as for room it is beyond what we can imagine. also the earth at the end will become new again. and we will live here too. also there is no age. yes we will parent our children. but it will be like old times. we will farm and build our own houses. but we will have everything we will ever need. and it will be wonderful. i hope i was able to give you some lite.






I'd like more info from you or your aunt. How do you know this and anything else to it, please. I'd appreciate it lots.

Taneil - posted on 06/03/2009

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people are so Dumb, 1st off being religious is a personal choice! Raising your kids that way is also a choice!! I don't look down on either side of the track! For me I am religious. (& i'll keep which one to myself) My husband is not. Neither of us were reaised in any church. (I don't go to church) For our boys we plan on raising them to be good people. Yes we believe someone one is up there but donn't personally feel the need to scare ourselves or our children into being good people. (like you'll go to hell for this or that...) If we teach them to be honest and to do whats right, hopefully the rest will fall where it should. I for one support blacks, whites, gays, jews, christians...as long as someone is a good person what does it matter? I don't care if my boys grow up to be gay & if they do I hope they have the choice to get married if they want to! Gay or straight. I want grandchildren someday. (& yes gay people can be parents) I would like to know when having values meant you had to be religious? & please don't tell me I don't know religion. I spent several years digging into those corners, trying to find what I thought was the truth (& for me, I found it) So all you negative people, do us all a favor & grow up & stop raising more closed minded little fruit cakes! Be happy with yourself and try to be happy for other people, you might be surprised to find out that all life takes is a good honest & excepting heart!

Brittany - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Catherine:



Quoting FredSusan:




Quoting Catherine:

This is one thing that confuses me in Christian religion. You don't believe in the idea of evolution of man, right? Adam and Eve were the originals? Wouldn't that have to mean we all have to be descendants of incest? Isn't that a sin? I'm not trying to be offensive I'd just like an opinion on this.







This is from an excerpt of the writing of  a guy named Ray Comfort.  He's great at answering the hard questions.  "Many ask this question thinking they've found a mistake in the Bible that there must have been other people besides Adam & Eve.  Scripture tells us that Adam is the first man (1Cor.15:45); that there were no other humans when he was created, because God said, It is not good that the man should be alone (Gen. 2:18); and that Eve is the mother of all living (Gen 3:20).  Cain and Abel, then, must have married distant sisters.  All of the first-generation siblings married each other in order to populate the earth.  At that time there was no law against incest.  But as the population grew large enough, and as the risk of genetic problems increased because of sin's curse, God outlawed marriage between siblings."  








This is just something I found.  It is a man's opinion that I respect, don't know what to think of it myself.  I just didn't want you to think that your question wasn't worth the time to try to answer.  Great question!  Like I said, Ray Comfort has done lots of research and is able to answer lots of questions like these.  Google him and check it out.  









Thank you for your answer. My take on Genesis and the seven days of creation has always taken a more metophorical meaning. Seven days to man may be 700 billion years to God. A which point evolution comes in to play as Gods plan. But it's important for me to understand what others believe, and to do that I need to ask questions. The same as I hope my children will do!





I wonder about something:



I stated early about my belief that Genesis 1 and 2 are different stories. The Bible doesn't say how long a god's day is. Like you said it could mean 700 billion years. Genesis 1 tells the creation of the earth and everything on it (including water animals), God says let us create them in our image and then he creates them in his own image. I think this was done through evolution. Throughout this chapter God is referred to God Almighty, this chapter goes days 1 through 6. Chapter 2 starts with... "And on the 7th day God rested. And Lord God..." I think Lord God is a different God. I think he created Eden, a garden, on the earth that God Almighty already created. One difference in the two stories is that Lord God didn't create water animals. Another discrepency between the two stories is that the first chapter is the creation of "male and female" the second is "man and woman". I wonder if male and female are the more animal like early humans. I wonder if the second god breathing life into Adam and Eve is what gave them "souls" (concience),



According to fundamental christians, adam and eve were the first so we all came from incest. However, if my theory is true, then when they left Eden other humans were there, they were just more animal like and they could have mated.



See, this is just an idea or theory to me. I know a lot of people are going to think I'm crazy, but this is what I saw when I read the first two chapters of Genesis. I think I got to Exodus and it seemed to me like the first God of the Bible left the people alone while the second liked to interfere with the humans (like the tower of babble).



 



Sorry, I didn't mean to throw my thoughts out there, but I couldn't help it.

Brittany - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):



Quoting Libby:




Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):





Quoting Libby:












Quoting Yupawadee:












Thank you Betsy!! This is exactly how I have been feeling about a certain someone for most of this thread and I kinda feel sorry for the poor girl, she seems to have a few issues that may need more help than God can offer, I hope she finds peace.  I dont believe that Christians are negatively stereotyped on the whole, but like many things it only takes 1 to bring a good name down.  You have done a justice here and restored the balance in my view.  I wish you well



















I'm not sure if it makes you feel better to talk about me in this manner or what.  But that is OK.  I understand why you have to do that.  It is a justification to you.  My issues are my faith and love in God.  Amen for that!  He is my peace.  So, don't be sorry for me, I am not poor, I am rich in the abudance of the love of God, and so is my family.  God bless. 















I was merely making a statement TO Betsy and Betsy is only reitterating what I have said before but perhaps in a more eloquent way than I did.  And yes it IS about YOU LIBBY, I have no shame in admitting that, you ALONE have made it very difficult for some of us"non-believers" who may be trying to understand.  Your self righteous attitude and complete disregard for anything NOT Christain is appalling and disgusting. Your irresponsible way of presenting YOUR God because it suits YOUR life is not the way to encourage him into anyone elses.  From a psychological point of view... you have issues or maybe just love the sound of your own voice?










It makes no difference to me how or what you choose to do with your life and I do honestly pity you, whether you want it or not, it is a sad day when someone feels that they have to justify their every waking hour to the pursuit of getting their arse into Heaven, it's like you have to say something incase God won't accept you or you have done something so wrong that this is what you have to do to get back into HIS good graces? I don't get it but such a shame.










 










May God bless you













Seriously, it makes no difference to me what you say at this point.  Of course you say now that you don't have any shame in saying you're talking about me until I call you out on it.  You are calling me self righteous but haven't stopped to look at your own actions or words at this point.  You seem to hold me to a higher standard than you hold yourself.  You are saying I have a complete disregard for anything not Christian yet I have commented back to some and asked questions to become informed of why they are making certain choices, for example, like when I asked one of the posters how she explains Heaven to her children when she is not teaching them Christianity.  And that is not the only time I have posted to someone who claims they are not teaching religion to become more informed and never once did I disregard anything they had to say with me.  In fact, we had a nice conversation about it.   So, your theory here is wrong and unproven.  Yet your attitude and disregard for everything that I have said about my Christianity is turning out to be "appalling and disgusting" (your words not mine).  You continue to reply to me or about me and then it's like you get all (for lack of a better word) pissy, when I reply back to anything about me.  You want me to lie down and wave the white flag, but honey, I have nothing to be ashamed of.  You seem to be just spouting off at the mouth just making wild accusations that are completely unfounded.  If you don't want me to reply you can just choose to respectfully agree to disagree with my beliefs and move on from there and bother someone else because you're getting no where with me.









Very interesting that you will not accept blessings that I have offered you in the name of other gods and religions Libby. 






I dont for 1 second hold you of any standard, be it higher or lower, you are just different and that is OK. 






And yes you have commented back on other faiths and religions and asked but always there is that questioning undertone of disapproval of these peoples eminating from you, maybe I am wrong and if so I whole-heartedly apologise for my misinterpretation of your words.






I do respectfully disagree with you but that does not mean to say that I dont respect you, you have so much faith and belief in your chosen religion and it is a beautiful thing.






I wish you well Libby






I agree with this. It seems like "arguementative listening" where the person is only listening to the other person, and communicating, in order to disagree and attack the other. Honestly, that's what goes on throughout most debates where religion is considered though. So I can't hold that against Libby.



 



I think the reason Libby is in the middle of the arguing is because of her initial post and those following in which she has outright said that her beliefs are true and that everyone else is wrong. Libby, your posts just seem to give the impression of you judging everyone else or that your going to change us.



I'm Pagan-Christian, but I used to be anti-christian. Part of what kept me from becoming Christian when I wasn't was that when I tried to learn about it I got people that talked like you, which is a big turn away. However, when I got people who only answered questions, never judged, and discussed things with me I started listening. The Bible does say to turn others to Christianity, but it says you have to pay attention to who you are trying to convert and change your style to suit them. Some people you preach fire and brimstone to scare them, others you show them love (what the Bible says anyway). I don't do either, I'll discuss it but I don't try to convert anyone because who am i to say that my beliefs are right?



 



My favorite quotes:



"I thought to myself, 'I am wiser than this man: neither of us knows anything that is really worthwhile, but he thinks he has knowledge when he has not, while I, having no knowledge, do not think that I have. I seem, at any rate, to be a little wiser than he is on this point: I do not think that I know what I do not know." I think this was Socrates.



 



“Man is the religious animal. He is the only religious animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion –- several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat, if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven.” Mark Twain, "The Lowest Animal" a sattire of how man is supposed to be the best animal

Esther - posted on 06/03/2009

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WOW!!! First of all, I'm amazed at some of the responses I've read...especially those of you who claim to have "religion" in your life. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I think the problem here is that people are confusing religion with GOD. God is not religion. People created religion. I was born a Roman Catholic and was exposed to many religions in my mother's search for truth. From Born Again Christian, to Mormon, to Baptist and a whole lot of other stuff in between. I can tell you I will probably die a Catholic, not because I agree with everything that Catholicism is, but because this is where my walk with God began. It's where I learned to love and trust him. I don't think He cares what I call myself. He only cares that I seek him. That I have a "relationship" with him. That I talk to him. And I can do that anywhere. In the privacy of my own home. Out in the woods while taking a walk...even on the internet. God is LOVE, PATIENCE, AND UNDERSTANDING. He does not intent to judge you until the final days...no one has the right to judge you for the spiritual choices that you are making today. I'm sorry that you felt attacked. I'm even more sorry that those who attacked you claim to be Godly. To raise children with or without religion is your choice, religion is people and people make mistakes. But think of your children. Wouldn't it be beautiful if they were given the opportunity to experience GOD's love?!

Sabrina - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):

I'm sorry to do this I have no clue how this works yet, or how to start a thread with all of you already here, a question if you please?
What should one expect of Heaven? Obviously I understand that there is no sickness or hunger there, and once there you will be reunited with loved ones. but.. what age will you be, I miscarried a daughter, hypothetically speaking IF I was a christian and made it to Heaven by accepting God...will she be a baby, a child, a teen? I have missed out on parenting her in this life, do I get to parent her in the next? I am having trouble with this eternity thing too...it is a loooong time, do you spend you time in heaven with everyone and i mean ALL the deceased throughout the ages, how much room is there?
I know I sound stupid but I had never thought about this til today whilst reviewing all these posts. BTW thank again you Krista for starting this thread, I'm sorry to come in like this.


im going to do my best to answer your question. my aunt is good at things like this but she is at work. but if you want anymore info let me know. i will talk to her tonite and find out. i do know that our spiritual body is different from this body. and it is our spirit that goes to heaven. everyone will look different but you will know them. I couldnt find in the bible about babies that die and their age in heaven but i did find that old men will be like youth again. as for room it is beyond what we can imagine. also the earth at the end will become new again. and we will live here too. also there is no age. yes we will parent our children. but it will be like old times. we will farm and build our own houses. but we will have everything we will ever need. and it will be wonderful. i hope i was able to give you some lite.

?? - posted on 06/03/2009

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Libby, I guess what my whole point was that it bothers me that I could go on having a conversation with you about raising your child with religion but you can not have a conversation with me about raising my child without religion. Nor do you really try.



Asking a question about someone else's faith is one thing - but dismissing someone who does not believe in God at all is another, you ignore that and you talk about your faith. You said it yourself, you respond with words of your faith. But that alone dismisses my thoughts and opinions. (I'll elaborate a lil further down.)



Your faith has no relevancy on how I would raise my child. We can all go blue in the face discussing what parts of the bible are fact and what are fiction. We can discuss God and Jesus and Mary and Joseph, but the second the conversation turns to someone who doesn't believe in God - the conversation is automatically turned back around, and the idea that God doesn't exist is dismissed. It's like asking "Why?" and then someone saying "Why not?" but instead of exploring the Why Not aspect, the only attention you pay to the conversation is the Why aspect.



I find it almost sad that you seem to expect everyone to only listen to and talk about your side of the "two different sides." When in fact there are way beyond 2 different sides. And then the close minded comments - I am far from close minded - I will learn about anything and I am open to talk about it and learn about it - but only if the other person/people are open to talk about it and learn about the other side as well. From what I can see in your posts - like I said - you are polite and you are nice, you ask a question you say thank you for your thoughts but you completely dismiss what anyone is saying other than what you agree with as if they had wasted their time even posting. It's redundant. It's quite insulting and is one of the reasons why people are calling you arrogant.



As for a couple of the replies to what I said earlier... I have been following the whole thread. I don't have the time to reply to every single post though, I only chose yours cause I found it highly hypocritical after reading everything you had been saying to everyone else and then for you to turn around and expect that woman to do what you can't/won't and don't give any sincere attempts to do.



I never said anything about being embarrassed about losing your child, so I'm really not too sure where you got that from...



And as far as teaching our children about death in an earthly manner and that they know those things that you mentioned that is what I meant we can't be fooled as to think that there aren't people out there who believe cause they have faith that there is heaven that they don't take that into their own hands and kill themselves or others. We may not know those people personally - but there are those people.



I was saying it is our responsibility to teach that aspect as well. And with your faith being SO strong - replying with words of your faith to everything everyone says... our children also need to know that not everyone believes as we do. And it is NOT their responsibility to push their belief onto everyone they meet. That in itself could become very dangerous for themselves. A lot of people don't "fight" with words. Of course this is extreme but it happens. And it is our responsibility as parents to teach that, and practice it.



I didn't say dismissive in every post - I said nearly every post. You give your half assed "Thank you for your thoughts" and then dismiss what they said and go on about your faith again. You will never change my mind and I will never change yours, but we could both converse in a manner that respects, discusses and explores BOTH of the "two different sides". Which is what I will be teaching my child to do, and I will also teach him that if that other person can only discuss their side, he should walk away from the conversation cause it's a waste of breath and will only lead to an argument.



"Like that" is referring to the post that I was quoting from. I guess I wasn't too clear on that, my apologies.



Personally, I agree with that woman. That telling a small child that the only way they will see their dead sibling is in heaven, is not the best way to go about it. But it's YOUR way, and I respect that. I don't see that as an emotionally healthy way to deal with death. I'm glad that you have explained to them that when people die they are cremated or buried in the ground etc because that is healthy to me. But I am not you, and your way is your way and if it's working for you, that's great. I just wouldn't go about it that way.



If God justifies your faith - then you shouldn't have this incessant need to make sure everyone else, regardless of their beliefs, believe the same that you believe. The fact that you are so adamant about pushing your beliefs into everything anyone has to say makes me feel as though you need everyone else to believe it too or your faith would be cracked. Which it won't be - but if you loosen up a lil bit - maybe your life will be more fullfilled and you will become "more informed" as you said previously.



When the world ends, I know where I will be. I don't believe in God. My son will believe in or not believe in anything he wants to believe in, and I will make sure he has every opportunity to learn about anything he wants to learn before or while he is making his decision. I don't think you will be giving your children the same luxury and that is your choice, as long as they're happy, it doesn't matter. I just hope that the children that are religious are also taught that other people aren't always going to agree with them and that is okay too.



So as I said I will teach my son and I will practice what I will teach him - when the other person is only willing to discuss themselves I will walk away. I have laundry to do and dinner to prepare. Thank you for your thoughts Libby. Take care.

Amanda - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:



Quoting Bridie:

I'm sure this is going to be hideously confrontational to some people but I really want to point out that the Bible has been scientifically proven.... Its also been scientifically proven that the big bang couldn't have happened and evolution is impossible.... I'll post references when I can find them coz I did a study on it :)






who was the study done by... out of curiousity... cuz i'm pretty sure no one aside from you have heard nething about the big bang and evolution being proven to be impossible? infact there was just a special on history international about the missing link... scientists have just recently discovered pristine fossilized remains of the link between dinosaur and primate... if evolution was disproven... i'm pretty sure scientists would be admitting to it world wide... or is it just some worldwide conspiriacy among scientists of all disciplines, cultures and countries... it would also be all over the news... so really i'd like to know how credible *your* sources are... and where exactly you studied them... something tells me they were concocted by some religious nuts



 



 



I just find it hard to believe that the bible was proven and the big Bang was bunked, where is the proof that you speak of????????????





 

Sabrina - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Libby:



Quoting Jen:

I was raised Lutheran and my husband was raised Baptist. We are currently attending a non-demoninational church and couldn't love it more. Both my husband and I spent many years "away" from a relationship with Christ and were so unhappy, though we didn't know it at the time. Since we, as a couple and family have been actively pursuing a relationship with Christ things have changed dramatically. Our son who previously had numerous issues has completely overcome them. I honestly believe we have been able to weather several financial storms due to our faith and diligence in tithing. My marriage has become more loving than I could ever have imagined. I love the Lord and am teaching my children to love the Lord, not because of how I was raised but because of what I have learned as an adult in the years I spend away from Christ and how wonderful my life has become since I put my faith and trust in Him.






That is wonderful Jen!  God certainly doesn't promise us that there won't be any hard times, but He does promise us that He'll be there with us through them.  We have weathered quite a bit the last few years too and without God I'm not sure how we could've gotten through them.  I too am teaching my children because of what I've learned as an adult.  I believed in  God as a child but didn't learn anything about God because my family never went to church.  I went with friends to their youth groups, but that doesn't have the same learning experience as it does when your family takes you and supports you and knows what you're learning about because they actively participate.  Some people have said they aren't going to teach their child about religion but won't deny their children if they want to go to church or youth groups or whatever.  But I've always felt that I want to know what my children are learning.  That's why I spend so much time in their schools actively volunteering and participating.  I can't imagine not doing the same when it comes to something as important as their faith.  I volunteer at church during activities and teach the youth once a month.  After I have my next child I will also volunteer in the nursery since I will have a little one in there too.  It's not quite the same as being involved in the teaching aspects, even though I will still do that too, but I still think it shows my children that I am helping with what is important to our family.  Well, anyway, I'm glad you are in a church family that you love.  We are too and we couldn't be happier.





i totally agree. i have experienced the same things in life. my favorite poem is Footprints. it always reminds me that God is there.

Carla - posted on 06/03/2009

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Amen Libby! I didn't let my children choose to go to school, neither did I let them choose if they wanted to honor the Lord's day by attending. We are the parents and we are to guide and nurture them. Our children are now grown. The 32 yr old is a youth minister and the youngest who is 29 is a teacher and coach. Both are very dedicated to the Lord and making a difference in the lives of young people. I know they would not be where they are today had we not as a family gone to chuch faithfully. We truly feel blessed that we never had to experience rebellion in anyway in their lives. We had family devotions every night just like I did in my family. All of us have to answer to the Lord. We are accountable on how we raise our blessings from God. We are not going to agree on this. But my son the teacher says he can tell exactly who is being raised in the Christian faith. On the other hand my son the youth minister can tell which parents are there for the kids, being involved in their lives, spending time doing devotions and yes,praying with their child. It is sad to say that even those in the church are not teaching their children in the ways of the Lord. There is only one way to the Father and that is thru Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us of His great love for each of us and that he wants none of us to perish. My prayer for each of you is that you will open up a Bible and start reading in the book of John. Ask God to open up your eyes to truth. As an old mom who has been there and done that, and who has worked with children in preschool for over 30 years. I can truly see a difference in the lives of preschoolers who parents are truly devoted to the Lord. I have worked in day care centers and honestly even at a tender age of three, there is a difference in their actions compared to those being raised in church and those not. You do not have to agree with me and that is okay with me. I just know that God holds us each accountable on how we raise His gifts up. May God give you wisdom as you raise your children. It is not the church that raises your children, it is you. You can go to church but if you do not have Jesus in your heart it is futile in what you are doing. There will be tons of opinions, I am sure. I too am learning every day more and more about my Savior and how He wants me to live. God Bless each of you. You only have 18 years with this child of yours. Hust look at a yardstick and see where your child's age is and how much time you have to influence them for the better.

Carla - posted on 06/03/2009

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Amen Libby! I didn't let my children choose to go to school, neither did I let them choose if they wanted to honor the Lord's day by attending. We are the parents and we are to guide and nurture them. Our children are now grown. The 32 yr old is a youth minister and the youngest who is 29 is a teacher and coach. Both are very dedicated to the Lord and making a difference in the lives of young people. I know they would not be where they are today had we not as a family gone to chuch faithfully. We truly feel blessed that we never had to experience rebellion in anyway in their lives. We had family devotions every night just like I did in my family. All of us have to answer to the Lord. We are accountable on how we raise our blessings from God. We are not going to agree on this. But my son the teacher says he can tell exactly who is being raised in the Christian faith. On the other hand my son the youth minister can tell which parents are there for the kids, being involved in their lives, spending time doing devotions and yes,praying with their child. It is sad to say that even those in the church are not teaching their children in the ways of the Lord. There is only one way to the Father and that is thru Jesus Christ. The Bible tells us of His great love for each of us and that he wants none of us to perish. My prayer for each of you is that you will open up a Bible and start reading in the book of John. Ask God to open up your eyes to truth. As an old mom who has been there and done that, and who has worked with children in preschool for over 30 years. I can truly see a difference in the lives of preschoolers who parents are truly devoted to the Lord. I have worked in day care centers and honestly even at a tender age of three, there is a difference in their actions compared to those being raised in church and those not. You do not have to agree with me and that is okay with me. I just know that God holds us each accountable on how we raise His gifts up. May God give you wisdom as you raise your children. It is not the church that raises your children, it is you. You can go to church but if you do not have Jesus in your heart it is futile in what you are doing. There will be tons of opinions, I am sure. I too am learning every day more and more about my Savior and how He wants me to live. God Bless each of you. You only have 18 years with this child of yours. Hust look at a yardstick and see where your child's age is and how much time you have to influence them for the better.

Sabrina - posted on 06/03/2009

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Quoting Libby:



Quoting Jen:

I was raised Lutheran and my husband was raised Baptist. We are currently attending a non-demoninational church and couldn't love it more. Both my husband and I spent many years "away" from a relationship with Christ and were so unhappy, though we didn't know it at the time. Since we, as a couple and family have been actively pursuing a relationship with Christ things have changed dramatically. Our son who previously had numerous issues has completely overcome them. I honestly believe we have been able to weather several financial storms due to our faith and diligence in tithing. My marriage has become more loving than I could ever have imagined. I love the Lord and am teaching my children to love the Lord, not because of how I was raised but because of what I have learned as an adult in the years I spend away from Christ and how wonderful my life has become since I put my faith and trust in Him.






That is wonderful Jen!  God certainly doesn't promise us that there won't be any hard times, but He does promise us that He'll be there with us through them.  We have weathered quite a bit the last few years too and without God I'm not sure how we could've gotten through them.  I too am teaching my children because of what I've learned as an adult.  I believed in  God as a child but didn't learn anything about God because my family never went to church.  I went with friends to their youth groups, but that doesn't have the same learning experience as it does when your family takes you and supports you and knows what you're learning about because they actively participate.  Some people have said they aren't going to teach their child about religion but won't deny their children if they want to go to church or youth groups or whatever.  But I've always felt that I want to know what my children are learning.  That's why I spend so much time in their schools actively volunteering and participating.  I can't imagine not doing the same when it comes to something as important as their faith.  I volunteer at church during activities and teach the youth once a month.  After I have my next child I will also volunteer in the nursery since I will have a little one in there too.  It's not quite the same as being involved in the teaching aspects, even though I will still do that too, but I still think it shows my children that I am helping with what is important to our family.  Well, anyway, I'm glad you are in a church family that you love.  We are too and we couldn't be happier.





i totally agree. i have experienced the same things in life. my favorite poem is Footprints. it always reminds me that God is there.

Veronica - posted on 06/03/2009

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I posted earlier, but now after reading everyone's posts, and really sitting here and thinking - I think this post should be shut down - end of discussion. None of us is entirely right or entirely wrong - and religion, faith, values, morals are not something we should be discussing, especially when judgin and persecuting becomes involved. We are responsible for our own spirit/soul - no one elses - sure maybe we may say something to someone that may 'save their soul' - but i feel that happens when its meant to happen. there are a lot who say somethin that damn's someones soul (or their own) So I think none of us has anything to say at all - we dont know the whole truth - so therefore cannot talk about something that either is or isnt. The original post asked if and how you have religion in your life or not --- not, who's right and who's wrong? who's better than others? etcc.... let's close this out please!!

Yupawadee(Bird) - posted on 06/03/2009

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I'm sorry to do this I have no clue how this works yet, or how to start a thread with all of you already here, a question if you please?

What should one expect of Heaven? Obviously I understand that there is no sickness or hunger there, and once there you will be reunited with loved ones. but.. what age will you be, I miscarried a daughter, hypothetically speaking IF I was a christian and made it to Heaven by accepting God...will she be a baby, a child, a teen? I have missed out on parenting her in this life, do I get to parent her in the next? I am having trouble with this eternity thing too...it is a loooong time, do you spend you time in heaven with everyone and i mean ALL the deceased throughout the ages, how much room is there?

I know I sound stupid but I had never thought about this til today whilst reviewing all these posts. BTW thank again you Krista for starting this thread, I'm sorry to come in like this.

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