Raising children religious or not

Sabrina - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Libby:

Quoting Jen:

I was raised Lutheran and my husband was raised Baptist. We are currently attending a non-demoninational church and couldn't love it more. Both my husband and I spent many years "away" from a relationship with Christ and were so unhappy, though we didn't know it at the time. Since we, as a couple and family have been actively pursuing a relationship with Christ things have changed dramatically. Our son who previously had numerous issues has completely overcome them. I honestly believe we have been able to weather several financial storms due to our faith and diligence in tithing. My marriage has become more loving than I could ever have imagined. I love the Lord and am teaching my children to love the Lord, not because of how I was raised but because of what I have learned as an adult in the years I spend away from Christ and how wonderful my life has become since I put my faith and trust in Him.

That is wonderful Jen!  God certainly doesn't promise us that there won't be any hard times, but He does promise us that He'll be there with us through them.  We have weathered quite a bit the last few years too and without God I'm not sure how we could've gotten through them.  I too am teaching my children because of what I've learned as an adult.  I believed in  God as a child but didn't learn anything about God because my family never went to church.  I went with friends to their youth groups, but that doesn't have the same learning experience as it does when your family takes you and supports you and knows what you're learning about because they actively participate.  Some people have said they aren't going to teach their child about religion but won't deny their children if they want to go to church or youth groups or whatever.  But I've always felt that I want to know what my children are learning.  That's why I spend so much time in their schools actively volunteering and participating.  I can't imagine not doing the same when it comes to something as important as their faith.  I volunteer at church during activities and teach the youth once a month.  After I have my next child I will also volunteer in the nursery since I will have a little one in there too.  It's not quite the same as being involved in the teaching aspects, even though I will still do that too, but I still think it shows my children that I am helping with what is important to our family.  Well, anyway, I'm glad you are in a church family that you love.  We are too and we couldn't be happier.

i totally agree. i have experienced the same things in life. my favorite poem is Footprints. it always reminds me that God is there.

Veronica - posted on 06/03/2009

I posted earlier, but now after reading everyone's posts, and really sitting here and thinking - I think this post should be shut down - end of discussion. None of us is entirely right or entirely wrong - and religion, faith, values, morals are not something we should be discussing, especially when judgin and persecuting becomes involved. We are responsible for our own spirit/soul - no one elses - sure maybe we may say something to someone that may 'save their soul' - but i feel that happens when its meant to happen. there are a lot who say somethin that damn's someones soul (or their own) So I think none of us has anything to say at all - we dont know the whole truth - so therefore cannot talk about something that either is or isnt. The original post asked if and how you have religion in your life or not --- not, who's right and who's wrong? who's better than others? etcc.... let's close this out please!!

Yupawadee(Bird) - posted on 06/03/2009

I'm sorry to do this I have no clue how this works yet, or how to start a thread with all of you already here, a question if you please?

What should one expect of Heaven? Obviously I understand that there is no sickness or hunger there, and once there you will be reunited with loved ones. but.. what age will you be, I miscarried a daughter, hypothetically speaking IF I was a christian and made it to Heaven by accepting God...will she be a baby, a child, a teen? I have missed out on parenting her in this life, do I get to parent her in the next? I am having trouble with this eternity thing too...it is a loooong time, do you spend you time in heaven with everyone and i mean ALL the deceased throughout the ages, how much room is there?

I know I sound stupid but I had never thought about this til today whilst reviewing all these posts. BTW thank again you Krista for starting this thread, I'm sorry to come in like this.

Amy - posted on 06/03/2009

I don't make apologies to what and whom I believe in.....I have two children and there is no other way for them to believe, that's the way it is!!! When they grow up and chose to believe in anything or anyone other then Christ then so be it. I don't fret because I know the the power of prayer so I'll just pray them right back into their foundation which is Jesus. We all can argue and disagree about religion and the bible but my revelation on that one is NO ONE can argue and disagree with my(or any one else) experiences in God. That's why I laugh in confident that teaching my kids to believe how I believe is right because they themselves have experience something so great and bigger and out of this world that it's undeniable. As a Christian myself I don't always do right and don't do what I should because I'm not perfect so I teach my kids"always look to the one that is bigger then you and is more then willing to lead you and guide you if you call out to Him". With that being said it's really hard to teach your kids something you yourself don't truly believe.....We teach our kids what we live....If you say that you don't think it's right to "force" my belief on my kids.....then seriously, I don't think that your belief is really your true conviction, don't you think???...I'm not being sarcastic....It's just that if you do have conviction then you would want your children to know that conviction too. Well this way my first time commenting on this group....Hope I posted on correctly

Yupawadee(Bird) - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Libby:

Quoting Jeanne:

As a child we were taken to church every service. When I was married my husband and I did not attend church. When my father died at age 41 of a massive heart attack I came face to face with reality. God's Word, the Bible, has been around for a long time. It is history written in advance. When I began to read it I realized He loves me and wants to have a relationship with me. My life changed when I invited Him into my life to be my guide in this world. As for our children, we took them to church. They chose to follow Jesus and have married people who believe in Him and follow Him too.
If this life was all there is it would not be worth living. We are here for such a short period of time even if we live a long life. I am 71 now. Eternity is forever. Because we love our children and want what is best for them we sent them to school and took them to church. I am so thankful we did. Parenting is a one time job. As soon as you learn what seems to be best your job is over. Since you were not raised in church please take time to read the book of John in the New Testament. God said if we seek Him we will find Him. The peace and joy in my heart cannot be purchased anywhere. Only God can give it to us. You are in my prayers.

Thank you for sharing your testimony Jeanne.  I've never heard anybody put it exactly the way you have " Very inspirational.  Take care.

OOOH umm...." If this life was all there is it would not be worth living." ? surely IF this life was all there is you'd want to live it to the fullest and to the best of your ability?  otherwise why live it at all?  I'm not saying anything bad here so don't misunderstand me.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Jeanne:

As a child we were taken to church every service. When I was married my husband and I did not attend church. When my father died at age 41 of a massive heart attack I came face to face with reality. God's Word, the Bible, has been around for a long time. It is history written in advance. When I began to read it I realized He loves me and wants to have a relationship with me. My life changed when I invited Him into my life to be my guide in this world. As for our children, we took them to church. They chose to follow Jesus and have married people who believe in Him and follow Him too.
If this life was all there is it would not be worth living. We are here for such a short period of time even if we live a long life. I am 71 now. Eternity is forever. Because we love our children and want what is best for them we sent them to school and took them to church. I am so thankful we did. Parenting is a one time job. As soon as you learn what seems to be best your job is over. Since you were not raised in church please take time to read the book of John in the New Testament. God said if we seek Him we will find Him. The peace and joy in my heart cannot be purchased anywhere. Only God can give it to us. You are in my prayers.

Thank you for sharing your testimony Jeanne.  I've never heard anybody put it exactly the way you have "If this life was all there is it would not be worth living."  Very inspirational.  Take care.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Jodi:

Libby, I am really truly not meaning to belittle you or put you down or trivialize your daughters death (to me, you have done that a bit on your own without anyones help) but when you come off like that, you make no sense and everything you said before that point becomes irrelivant to me. I respect that you have your religion and I understand why your faith is so strong, but you fail to be human on so many levels that it makes your faith and your attitude seem so... redundant and boring and almost fake.

 

Sorry, I didn't get to finish before the last part posted.  But that's ok.  It's hard to understand what "come off like that" means when you don't say what "that" is.  I don't know if you're referring to "trivialize" or what.  But I see no reason to defend or explain "that" because you have basically already told me your mind is closed to what I have to say - "irrelevant" is how you put it.  That's OK if you don't know my heart.  I do, my family does, and more importantly, God does. 

 

You are polite and you are nice - to those who SAY they respect your views, or those who agree with you - but then as soon as someone does not post anything nice about you or your faith but voice their own opinions - negative or not - about religion, you get so defensive like if someone else can not believe your faith, then your faith will die with that.

 

My faith will not die.  This is a thread about two different sides, if one side can't be explained without someone thinking it is defensive then that is something that they will have to deal with.  I am participating in a thread and when people post and reply then others will reply and respond.  That can go on and on over one topic for quite some time.  I'm OK with that.  What I'm not OK with is someone attacking me.  But here's the difference I'd like to point out.  In all of my responses to people who don't teach religion or believe in God or whatever I have responded with words of my faith.  If they find words of God as an attack b/c they don't want to hear about faith then they shouldn't participate if other people's faith is too hard for them to hear.  Also, if it that bothersome to them, as another poster said above, then perhaps that is God's way of stirring their hearts to look into it a little deeper. 

It's almost like you NEED people to justify your faith. You don't need to come off as though your world will end if you can't get everyone to believe your faith though. You believe in yourself and your faith, the rest of us who don't believe, will be happy for you regardless - and the people who aren't happy for you - just aren't worth a second thought, whether they are relgious or not.

God justifies my faith.  I never said my world will end if another human being doesn't justify it.  When the world does end I know where I will be. 

Thank you for the thoughts.  It wasn't really on topic to the opening post.  But I would be more than happy to discuss how and why you raise your children religious or non religious.  If you don't want to discuss that with me, that is OK, but feel free to share your thoughts about the topic with other posters.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Jodi:

Libby, I am really truly not meaning to belittle you or put you down or trivialize your daughters death (to me, you have done that a bit on your own without anyones help) but when you come off like that, you make no sense and everything you said before that point becomes irrelivant to me. I respect that you have your religion and I understand why your faith is so strong, but you fail to be human on so many levels that it makes your faith and your attitude seem so... redundant and boring and almost fake.

 

Sorry, I didn't get to finish before the last part posted.  But that's ok.  It's hard to understand what "come off like that" means when you don't say what "that" is.  I don't know if you're referring to "trivialize" or what.  But I see no reason to defend or explain "that" because you have basically already told me your mind is closed to what I have to say - "irrelevant" is how you put it.  That's OK if you don't know my heart.  I do, my family does, and more importantly, God does. 

 

You are polite and you are nice - to those who SAY they respect your views, or those who agree with you - but then as soon as someone does not post anything nice about you or your faith but voice their own opinions - negative or not - about religion, you get so defensive like if someone else can not believe your faith, then your faith will die with that.

 

My faith will not die.  This is a thread about two different sides, if one side can't be explained without someone thinking it is defensive then that is something that they will have to deal with.  I am participating in a thread and when people post and reply then others will reply and respond.  That can go on and on over one topic for quite some time.  I'm OK with that.  What I'm not OK with is someone attacking me.  But here's the difference I'd like to point out.  In all of my responses to people who don't teach religion or believe in God or whatever I have responded with words of my faith.  If they find words of God as an attack b/c they don't want to hear about faith then they shouldn't participate if other people's faith is too hard for them to hear.  Also, if it that bothersome to them, as another poster said above, then perhaps that is God's way of stirring their hearts to look into it a little deeper. 

It's almost like you NEED people to justify your faith. You don't need to come off as though your world will end if you can't get everyone to believe your faith though. You believe in yourself and your faith, the rest of us who don't believe, will be happy for you regardless - and the people who aren't happy for you - just aren't worth a second thought, whether they are relgious or not.

God justifies my faith.  I never said my world will end if another human being doesn't justify it.  When the world does end I know where I will be. 

Thank you for the thoughts.  It wasn't really on topic to the opening post.  But I would be more than happy to discuss how and why you raise your children religious or non religious.  If you don't want to discuss that with me, that is OK, but feel free to share your thoughts about the topic with other posters.

Jeanne - posted on 06/03/2009

As a child we were taken to church every service. When I was married my husband and I did not attend church. When my father died at age 41 of a massive heart attack I came face to face with reality. God's Word, the Bible, has been around for a long time. It is history written in advance. When I began to read it I realized He loves me and wants to have a relationship with me. My life changed when I invited Him into my life to be my guide in this world. As for our children, we took them to church. They chose to follow Jesus and have married people who believe in Him and follow Him too.

If this life was all there is it would not be worth living. We are here for such a short period of time even if we live a long life. I am 71 now. Eternity is forever. Because we love our children and want what is best for them we sent them to school and took them to church. I am so thankful we did. Parenting is a one time job. As soon as you learn what seems to be best your job is over. Since you were not raised in church please take time to read the book of John in the New Testament. God said if we seek Him we will find Him. The peace and joy in my heart cannot be purchased anywhere. Only God can give it to us. You are in my prayers.

Nancy - posted on 06/03/2009

You can get some good books from Answers in Genesis that will answer your questions about Evolution versus Creation if you want to look them up on the net. Your teachers should have been using a curriculum that showed both viewpoints. But in the end FAITH is the determining factor of both. I have faith in a God where all things are possible, no matter how impossible they may seem! And miracles still happen, u just don't hear about them and probably aren't looking for them. You are not gonna get it in the news usually. And most people just don't recognize a mircle anymore if it hit them in the face! lol

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Amanda :

I totally agree with you on this....it is not that I do not believe in a higher power, it is that so many religions try and make god out to be some mean vengeful being that I do not want my kids exposed to all of the things that RELIGION has become. I have a friend that goes to a church that had a guest speaker tell everyone that attended that Sunday (even small children) that 2012 was going to be the end of the world and now her 9 year old daughter has no dreams or aspirations of ever being anything....because she is going to die in 2 1/2 years. I mean come on we can raise our children with morals without putting religion in it....I know people that were raised in environments where religion was taught to the highest standards and they turned out worse than most of us. i am just saying, you cannot use Jesus as the Boogyman so that kids and people will be good!

I'm appalled that someone would tell your friend or her church that the world was going to end in 2012.  There is NO possible way for anybody to know that.  Do you know if he was talking about the return of Jesus?  There is nothing in the Bible about the date or year of His return.  Jesus doesn't even know.  What an irresponsible thing for this speaker to say.  The only thing I can say is that one has to live their life today like he is coming back tomorrow, because you just really never know.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Jodi:

Libby,

"You are totally consumed in yourself and cannot see what you are doing or saying about others." You are totally consumed in your own faith that you are blind to others thoughts, opinions and you dismiss them because you feel what you are doing and saying is your truth. It is not my truth - it is yours.

 

Jodi, I know this is a long thread and perhaps you have not had the opportunity to read through every post.  But there was a post just above yours where I posted to someone who was raising her child in a "spiritual" manner (not religious).  My reply back was I thought it was very positive and even asked her a question as to why she felt a certain way about something.  I have done that with several other posts to become more informed so I'm confused as to why you call that blind and dismissive. 

 

"You are no authority figure to tell me and my family how to deal with the death of my child." You are no authority figure to tell that lady how she sees what you are doing to your children, with your children etc. She can say all she likes how she sees it because you have put it out into the public eye and in a thread that obviously is very heated - and you can dismiss it, just as you do when someone says they are a non believer and you dismiss that to go on trying to "save their soul".

Again, your definition of dismissive must be different from mine.  Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. 

"All of that means nothing to me because all you are trying to do is belittle my experience." Everything that you say to a non-believer means nothing. Your words only come off as belittling our lives as if we NEED your faith in order to live a full and happy and meaningful life. Which we obviously, have decided that we don't need.

 My words about the death of my daughter had nothing to do with this other poster's faith.  But if you feel my words mean nothing you are not forced to read them. 

"You are wasting your breath." - no elaboration needed there.

 

"Preach your mommy and attorney speech to someone else because it is completely lost on me." Preach your faith to someone else, because it is completely lost on me.

 Again, you (nor anybody else) is being forced to read about my faith.

"But this obviuosly isn't a phone call and I can't just hang up on you." It's rude to hang up on people tsk tsk lol

It is not rude to ask someone politely to end the conversation and not want to continue to hear their belittling comments and to disconnect the *call* if they cannot stop.    I used to do credit card collections and it wasn't in my job description to take verbal abuse on the job, and I'm certainly not going to let someone keep talking to me in a manner that I find disgusting in any other form. 

 

"So, you'll do and say what you want because you feel you are better than me and think you have the right to tell me how to deal with my daughter's death from 6 months ago." You already know that no one can tell you how to deal with your daughters death. And regardless of whether someone says anything - if you know what you are doing is how you need to do it - why bother with what someone else says? Generally I find that when people become offended by comments like that it means that they have some doubt about what they are doing and that there may be some truth to what that person is saying and being offended comes from embarrassment or denial. That may not be the case but I can see both sides of this - your side and hers. I can see why she would say that and I can see why you would want that for your children. It can go either way as long as you realize you have the responsibility to explain death in a more earthly manner to your children so they don't become delusioned to think "ahh oh well if we die, I'll be in heaven" and do something stupid - or kill people etc.

What should I be embarrassed about when it comes to losing my child?  You do not need to answer this because it seems like a very strange question to begin with since i know what it is like to lose a child and there is nothing embarrasing about it.   Also, what is the earthly manner of death?  My children know that someone doesn't just go to sleep and hope that they will wake up.  They know that people become sick from heart, attacks, cancer, car accidents, etc.  and end up in the hospital and then they can die.  They know that people get buried in their caskets in the ground because they have been to funerals and they know someone can be creammated because their sister is.  That is the earthly part of death.  I don't know anybody who thinks its ok to die or who wants to die because there's always Heaven.  I feel the delusion your stating is extremely far fetched, especially for a child who doesn't even think about their own mortality.

 

"But the more you post such cruel things to a person who has just lost a child, the more people can see you for who you really are." One woman posting her opinion on your way of raising your children and being concerned of their emotional well being is no different than you posting your opinions about our childrens emotional well being or our mortal souls dismissing our beliefs. Should we see you for who you really are? The fact that you dismiss us in nearly every post because someone has a different idea of faith than you do makes you cruel and unkind in my eyes, so should I just asume you are a cruel and unkind woman?

 Again, you claim I am dismissive in every post.  I suppose you can assume I'm whatever kind of person you want if you're going to base it off of something that isn't true.  I can't change your mind if you are not looking at the entire truth so it would seem silly for me to even try. 

"Perhaps it's time for you to move on." -- DITTO.

 

"God bless." 

Is this like the goodbye for religious people... "peace" or "ttyl" or "yours truly" or "sincerely"?

 

Libby, I am really truly not meaning to belittle you or put you down or trivialize your daughters death (to me, you have done that a bit on your own without anyones help) but when you come off like that, you make no sense and everything you said before that point becomes irrelivant to me. I respect that you have your religion and I understand why your faith is so strong, but you fail to be human on so many levels that it makes your faith and your attitude seem so... redundant and boring and almost fake.

You are polite and you are nice - to those who SAY they respect your views, or those who agree with you - but then as soon as someone does not post anything nice about you or your faith but voice their own opinions - negative or not - about religion, you get so defensive like if someone else can not believe your faith, then your faith will die with that.

It's almost like you NEED people to justify your faith. You don't need to come off as though your world will end if you can't get everyone to believe your faith though. You believe in yourself and your faith, the rest of us who don't believe, will be happy for you regardless - and the people who aren't happy for you - just aren't worth a second thought, whether they are relgious or not.

Jen - posted on 06/03/2009

I was raised a Catholic, my husband has no religion... I am raising my daughter Catholic. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive- the Big Bang Theory was penned by a Vatican priest, I believe... Evolution is...

I do not understand why so many believe that raising a child in a particular religion means that you are "pushing it down their throats" or do not respect other religions and lifestyles. I decided that I like who I am and I like who my siblings are (they don't practice) and what made us who we are is growing up with a Catholic base. So, I will give that to my children. I also decided that since my spiritual "lexicon" is Catholic, that I will seek a deeper understanding of that religion to express my belief in God rather than trying on every other religion. That is not to say that I do not want to learn about other religions, just that the expression of my own spirituality will be within the Catholic church.

I feel sad that people have been told that they are going to hell (certainly not a way to win believers!)... sure I believe in hell (all you have to do is look around and see that many people are already in their own personal hell), but who am I to say that someone really is going there?

Sorry, back to the point. I want my children to have a spiritual lexicon to help them keep hope alive in this world.

Amanda - posted on 06/03/2009

I totally agree with you on this....it is not that I do not believe in a higher power, it is that so many religions try and make god out to be some mean vengeful being that I do not want my kids exposed to all of the things that RELIGION has become. I have a friend that goes to a church that had a guest speaker tell everyone that attended that Sunday (even small children) that 2012 was going to be the end of the world and now her 9 year old daughter has no dreams or aspirations of ever being anything....because she is going to die in 2 1/2 years. I mean come on we can raise our children with morals without putting religion in it....I know people that were raised in environments where religion was taught to the highest standards and they turned out worse than most of us. i am just saying, you cannot use Jesus as the Boogyman so that kids and people will be good!

Nancy - posted on 06/03/2009

Personal experience has taught me their is a God and I believe we will have to answer to him about how we have lived our lives and what we have taught our children. My children's soul is the most important thing to me. If EVERYONE would live as Jesus lived, there would be peace on this earth, but too many that profess to be Christians don't have the right spirit or attitude to really SHOW unbelievers what it means to be a Christian. You can't tell them from the unrighteous anymore. I chose to believe God, and the Bible and use them as my roadmap in live. The Bible tells me right from wrong and sets my values and principles, not myself! Values change too much over the years and you have to have a firm foundation on which to stand! One can't have that if they trust in their own values or put their trust in humanity. What can seem right to you, may not be right with God. But, if you truly do not believe there is a God, this is just a pointless conversation anyway. But if you say you do believe in God and do things your own way, that is just dangerous. Well that is my 2 cents worth! God bless and have a great day! : )

?? - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Shannon:

God has made us to crave him. It takes some of us longer to get to that point where we quit trying to do things on our own and ask for the help of our Lord and Savior. I think the fact that you have posted a question on a Christian mom site indicates that God is trying to get your attention. He loves you and wants a relationship with you. God will never stop trying to get your attention. Start with reading the bible. It's amazing what God will do for us....There is nothing better you could do for your kids than to give your life to Christ!

A Christian mom site? Huh?

?? - posted on 06/03/2009

Libby,

"You are totally consumed in yourself and cannot see what you are doing or saying about others." You are totally consumed in your own faith that you are blind to others thoughts, opinions and you dismiss them because you feel what you are doing and saying is your truth. It is not my truth - it is yours.

"You are no authority figure to tell me and my family how to deal with the death of my child." You are no authority figure to tell that lady how she sees what you are doing to your children, with your children etc. She can say all she likes how she sees it because you have put it out into the public eye and in a thread that obviously is very heated - and you can dismiss it, just as you do when someone says they are a non believer and you dismiss that to go on trying to "save their soul".

"All of that means nothing to me because all you are trying to do is belittle my experience." Everything that you say to a non-believer means nothing. Your words only come off as belittling our lives as if we NEED your faith in order to live a full and happy and meaningful life. Which we obviously, have decided that we don't need.

"You are wasting your breath." - no elaboration needed there.

"Preach your mommy and attorney speech to someone else because it is completely lost on me." Preach your faith to someone else, because it is completely lost on me.

"But this obviuosly isn't a phone call and I can't just hang up on you." It's rude to hang up on people tsk tsk lol

"So, you'll do and say what you want because you feel you are better than me and think you have the right to tell me how to deal with my daughter's death from 6 months ago." You already know that no one can tell you how to deal with your daughters death. And regardless of whether someone says anything - if you know what you are doing is how you need to do it - why bother with what someone else says? Generally I find that when people become offended by comments like that it means that they have some doubt about what they are doing and that there may be some truth to what that person is saying and being offended comes from embarrassment or denial. That may not be the case but I can see both sides of this - your side and hers. I can see why she would say that and I can see why you would want that for your children. It can go either way as long as you realize you have the responsibility to explain death in a more earthly manner to your children so they don't become delusioned to think "ahh oh well if we die, I'll be in heaven" and do something stupid - or kill people etc.

"But the more you post such cruel things to a person who has just lost a child, the more people can see you for who you really are." One woman posting her opinion on your way of raising your children and being concerned of their emotional well being is no different than you posting your opinions about our childrens emotional well being or our mortal souls dismissing our beliefs. Should we see you for who you really are? The fact that you dismiss us in nearly every post because someone has a different idea of faith than you do makes you cruel and unkind in my eyes, so should I just asume you are a cruel and unkind woman?

"Perhaps it's time for you to move on." -- DITTO.

"God bless." 

Is this like the goodbye for religious people... "peace" or "ttyl" or "yours truly" or "sincerely"?

Libby, I am really truly not meaning to belittle you or put you down or trivialize your daughters death (to me, you have done that a bit on your own without anyones help) but when you come off like that, you make no sense and everything you said before that point becomes irrelivant to me. I respect that you have your religion and I understand why your faith is so strong, but you fail to be human on so many levels that it makes your faith and your attitude seem so... redundant and boring and almost fake.

You are polite and you are nice - to those who SAY they respect your views, or those who agree with you - but then as soon as someone does not post anything nice about you or your faith but voice their own opinions - negative or not - about religion, you get so defensive like if someone else can not believe your faith, then your faith will die with that.

It's almost like you NEED people to justify your faith. You don't need to come off as though your world will end if you can't get everyone to believe your faith though. You believe in yourself and your faith, the rest of us who don't believe, will be happy for you regardless - and the people who aren't happy for you - just aren't worth a second thought, whether they are relgious or not.

Shannon - posted on 06/03/2009

God has made us to crave him. It takes some of us longer to get to that point where we quit trying to do things on our own and ask for the help of our Lord and Savior. I think the fact that you have posted this question indicates that God is trying to get your attention. He loves you and wants a relationship with you. God will never stop trying to get your attention. Start with reading the bible. It's amazing what God will do for us....There is nothing better you could do for your kids than to give your life to Christ!

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Teresa:

i am teaching my kids how to connect with their inner being. So spirituality is the route i am taking. Religion is fear based and GUILT FILLED that is the last thing i want to teach my children. Energy follows thought, so if your kids or even you are walking around in fear all day that is what you manifest. JUst makes sense to me, I will quote my favorite thing i read everyday "WHAT WE FOCUS ON WE CREATE IN OUR LIVES SO WHAT WE GIVE ATTENTION TO WE ATTRACT INTO OUR LIVE EXPERIENCE"

That is a very good concept, to think positively and what not.  I'm just curious as to why you feel religion is fear based.  I think that believing in God is a positive thougt.  I suppose parents and churches do teach that religion is to be feared and that is the only way.  That to me doesn't make sense why someone would want to teach that when all you have to do is teach the children of God's promises and to love and respect Him for what He does for us.  That is ashame that someone would take that approach because God is a very caring God.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts on that. 

Teresa - posted on 06/03/2009

i am teaching my kids how to connect with their inner being. So spirituality is the route i am taking. Religion is fear based and GUILT FILLED that is the last thing i want to teach my children. Energy follows thought, so if your kids or even you are walking around in fear all day that is what you manifest. JUst makes sense to me, I will quote my favorite thing i read everyday "WHAT WE FOCUS ON WE CREATE IN OUR LIVES SO WHAT WE GIVE ATTENTION TO WE ATTRACT INTO OUR LIVE EXPERIENCE"

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

i do understand your point Betsy, i truly do, i don't agree with people calling other people ignorant, theres no need for it. but i don't think you can judge the way she is living her life, from a few posts on a thread.
i could sit here and tell you you're all wrong for believing in God, but that would get me nowhere. you are one type of person, she is another and i am another yet again. no-one is going to change anybody's mind. we are all going to do our own way regardless!
i'm not trying to cause a fight here, so i wish you a good day too!! :)

Sarah, I think this whole thing started because someone shouldn't judge anyone based on 2 or 3 sentences they clipped from a whole post when the whole post contains the whole view.  But that does happen.  And then when that gets addressed, well, then it's this reason for the disagreement, or that reason.  I can't address every little concern somebody has with my faith, especially if my family and I feel it is working out well for us.  I'm definetly not going to feel guilty for what works for our family.  It is such a compliment to me and my husband when our pastor tells us he is proud of us for having our family in church and giving them a strong upbringing through God.  The Sunday after our daughter died we were in church and he spoke about how we had many reasons not to be, but there we were wanting and needing to be near the Lord. 

Along with my belief in what I've already stated about Heaven, I do feel the Bible is truth.  If I felt there was another truth out there how could I be faithful to my God?  It doesn't mean that I don't know that people practice other religions.  I also believe that a person who falls away from God does bear guilt.  Hopefully that guilt turns them back towards God.  I'm not going to be afraid to raise my children as Christians because some people have turned away from God when they were adults after being raised as Christian youth.  I also hold my children to academic standards, moral standards, etc.  Why shouldn't I, as their mother, expect them to uphold Christian standards while in my care?  Even after they leave my care I expect them to be good citizens, hard workers, good spouses and parents when they are older too, as well as strong Christian men.  My children are not in a cult (that is a whole different thread, LOL).  They are in a loving and God praising environment.  I treasure those nights when I lay in bed with my boys after they say their prayers and we can have conversations about their sister, God, Heaven, etc.  I don't know many children who openly talk about those things but my boys are not embarrassed to say they have a sister in Heaven.  They also answer their friends' questions when they ask them about that kind of stuff.  That makes me proud that they have learned the things I have taught them and have been able to be children that know how to praise God.  I fail to see what is harmful about that.  I just want the best for my children and I am not going to settle for second best.  That is why I raise my children to believe in God.  Which is what this thread is about! 

Yupawadee(Bird) - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sairah:

I know this thread is mostly about Christians and non-Christians, but I thought I'd put my $0.02 in.

I'm a muslim, born to a muslim family. My parents are very devout, and I have learned about Islam at their feet. I myself totally believe every precept of Islam.

I believe it is VERY important to introduce your child to God, to right and wrong, to accountability. And if I'm not going to do it, who is?

But, if a parent decides that religion is not for them, who am I to judge? No parent wants anything but the best for their kids.

Hi Sairah (beautiful name BTW)

Silly question on my part but isn't Islam a non-christian religion, therefore completely relevent to the ORIGINAL question from Krista? Sorry to offend if I have.

I've been waiting/hoping that a non-christian would put something here as I was wondering where everyone else was, the  Bhuddists, Hindus, Sihks!!  I think it's great we all teach our kids at least something, anything at all about religion whether we practice or not.

Sarah - posted on 06/03/2009

i do understand your point Betsy, i truly do, i don't agree with people calling other people ignorant, theres no need for it. but i don't think you can judge the way she is living her life, from a few posts on a thread.
i could sit here and tell you you're all wrong for believing in God, but that would get me nowhere. you are one type of person, she is another and i am another yet again. no-one is going to change anybody's mind. we are all going to do our own way regardless!
i'm not trying to cause a fight here, so i wish you a good day too!! :)

Betsy - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

sorry Libby! i shouldn't be putting words in your mouth!
i just didn't think what was said was fair on you.

Sarah, I think you misunderstood that I just didn't agree with her spiritual beliefs, when in fact I am also Christian, and we actually have very similar beliefs. The difference is I know millions of others have different beliefs systems they wholeheartedly believe in, and I respect that, whereas she has made her feelings clear that she believes she has the only truth and all others are ignornant with a desperate need to be saved.  My concern with those comments were the effect comments like a child like that could have as the grow, replacing free will of faith with guilt and fear, especially regardling a loss of a child and children having to face mortality that young, as well as fear of being alone and without family added to the already present fear of death. Post after post have shown women who were brought up Christian and although they didn't believe, had so much guilt, turmoil and fear to struggle with in having an authentic spiritual life for theselves from what was placed on them by their Christian families as children. I don't agree with that line of spiritual growth and find it very harmful, especially with young kids. I am all for raising kids Christian, if you are a Christian, and have done so myself, but the way she worded that had more to do with utilizing fear and guilt than comfort. It is very possible how she shared her story, she expressed it in a way differently here than she actually did with her children, but that does seem unlikely her from showing the same feelings and attitudes with all the other moms here repeatedly, calling them ignorant, saying their kids weren't going to Heaven or needed to be saved, etc.  Have a good day.

Sarah - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Libby:

 

Sarah, I was also thinking that in my book death and God go hand in hand.  I'm not sure why I would leave that part out of my children's up bringing to know God.  We've had 9 deaths in the last 3 years of all family members.  I had none growing up.  Now I am being effected by losses and so are my children, so I'm not sure why I wouldn't give my children the knowledge and comfort of the promise that God has given us that those that believe in Heaven will all be together again.  I know the most tragic loss for us has been my daughter, so again, I am thankful we know the Lord and He comforts us. 

I know everybody thinks they are an expert but what I have seen with my children who know God as compared to a friend's child who doesn't understand (about God or Heaven) was that she had an extremely difficult time dealing with the death of her grandfather.  While my friend was raised Catholic she hadn't instilled any religious beliefs with her daughter yet and had expressed to me how hard it was to explain it after the fact.  I'm thankful we started serving the Lord when we became a family instead of waiting until we had a tragic event happen and then start figuring out what to tell our kids.  Our kids already had their comfort in the Lord then and we were just able to build on that when these deaths occured.  In fact, our kids just believe with such child like innocence that it seems easier for them to accept than it does for adults at times.  Just food for thought and I wanted to share that thought with you while I had it in my head.

i think death is always a hard thing to explain to kids, it's a hard thing to get your head around as an adult! i think it's great that your faith makes this easier for you and your kids. however, personally i think it can be explained and hope can be given, without using the bible and such. i really admire the amount of faith you have, i have faith too, just not in the same way! your way obviously works very well for you and i'm glad. i think that my way is good too, as i've said, we're doing the best for our kids, just in different ways! :)

 

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

sorry Libby! i shouldn't be putting words in your mouth!
i just didn't think what was said was fair on you.

Don't apologize.  You weren't putting words in my mouth, you were being sweet.  I just wanted you to know that you didn't have to stick up for me if you didn't want to.  The last thing I want is your views and opinions to be taken out of context too.  That wouldn't be fair if the same thing happened to you because you were defending me.  I'm glad we have been able to chat about this.  :-)

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Sarah, I was also thinking that in my book death and God go hand in hand.  I'm not sure why I would leave that part out of my children's up bringing to know God.  We've had 9 deaths in the last 3 years of all family members.  I had none growing up.  Now I am being effected by losses and so are my children, so I'm not sure why I wouldn't give my children the knowledge and comfort of the promise that God has given us that those that believe in Heaven will all be together again.  I know the most tragic loss for us has been my daughter, so again, I am thankful we know the Lord and He comforts us. 

I know everybody thinks they are an expert but what I have seen with my children who know God as compared to a friend's child who doesn't understand (about God or Heaven) was that she had an extremely difficult time dealing with the death of her grandfather.  While my friend was raised Catholic she hadn't instilled any religious beliefs with her daughter yet and had expressed to me how hard it was to explain it after the fact.  I'm thankful we started serving the Lord when we became a family instead of waiting until we had a tragic event happen and then start figuring out what to tell our kids.  Our kids already had their comfort in the Lord then and we were just able to build on that when these deaths occured.  In fact, our kids just believe with such child like innocence that it seems easier for them to accept than it does for adults at times.  Just food for thought and I wanted to share that thought with you while I had it in my head.

Sarah - posted on 06/03/2009

sorry Libby! i shouldn't be putting words in your mouth!
i just didn't think what was said was fair on you.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Betsy, i never thought i'd be sticking up for a Christian, however, i don't think Libby is 'emotionally blackmailing' her kids. She is teaching them the way of life that she believes in and by the sounds of it, what her kids believe in too. although you or i may feel that what she believes isn't true, she does!! she's teaching her kids good morals and giving them hope. when her kids grow up, i'd imagine their faith will be as strong as their mothers, but they have free will to look into other avenues and then if they choose another path, they will still have hope to see their sister again, from whatever path they do find.
Libby is a Christian, so she will teach her children Christian values and i don't think we can judge that. yes perhaps some of her earlier posts have been a bit full on, but a lot of things she has said are thoughtful and kind of inspiring!
i'm not religious at all, but i'm not going to try and talk anyone out of raising their kids to those values, because there's a whole lot of worse values you could be teaching a child.
live and let live i say! :)

Thank you Sarah, but there is no reason to stick up for me.  My words explain my beliefs but perhaps they weren't clear enough for all to understand, even though you understood it.  I have tried to reiterate/re-explain but that too is getting lost in translation.  The main thing is I know my heart and that is what I have to pass on to my kids.  I'm glad in some way you felt even slightly inspired. 

Betsy - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Betsy, i never thought i'd be sticking up for a Christian, however, i don't think Libby is 'emotionally blackmailing' her kids. She is teaching them the way of life that she believes in and by the sounds of it, what her kids believe in too. although you or i may feel that what she believes isn't true, she does!! she's teaching her kids good morals and giving them hope. when her kids grow up, i'd imagine their faith will be as strong as their mothers, but they have free will to look into other avenues and then if they choose another path, they will still have hope to see their sister again, from whatever path they do find.
Libby is a Christian, so she will teach her children Christian values and i don't think we can judge that. yes perhaps some of her earlier posts have been a bit full on, but a lot of things she has said are thoughtful and kind of inspiring!
i'm not religious at all, but i'm not going to try and talk anyone out of raising their kids to those values, because there's a whole lot of worse values you could be teaching a child.
live and let live i say! :)

I completely respect that you have a different opinion on it, but that is my opinion based on helping my own children grieve a sibling as well as my professional opinion working in the juvenile system. I am also Christian myself, but I do find that very troubling  regarding the lasting effects on a child's emotional well-being. Libby has been very vocal in making her opinions heard repeatedly regarding other people's choices regarding this topic and their children, so she shouldn't have a problem when opinions are shared the same way on her choices that she chose to share publically.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Betsy:

Quoting Libby:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Sarah:

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

just realised i kinda contradicted myself there! so i will amend that, to say that,

to say libby shouldn't tell her kids they will see their sister in Heaven seems really MEAN.

it's what i meant just didn't phrase it right!! :)

Thank you for your thoughts on this Sarah.  While it does feel mean and I was hurt with the first post about that, I have prayed about it and I know they are just words.  It did seem cruel as my scars from losing my daughter are so fresh, but in the end I still have the hope of seeing her again, and so does my children.  No one can take that away from me.  And I definetly want to give my children that hope too.  I had said in a post before that we don't grieve like those with no hope.  Meaning, we (those that believe in God and Heaven, etc.) don't grieve like those with no hope in seeing their loved ones again in Heaven.  It is something my pastor has said several times before and it has really stuck with me because that is something that helps me get through this; knowing that I will see her again.  Thank you for your kind words. 

Sarah, it was in the the she worded the comments from her own posts, along with her attitudes towards belief systems of others. It is one thing to say "we believe we will see her again" as a form of comfort and positive thinking, opposed to her explanation that she tells them they must believe as it is the ONLY possible way to ever see their sister again, as she wrote in her first post. A child hearing comments like that is going to have that emotional guilt as they grow into adults if they even questioned looking into other faiths of the world. Even if that being the only way is what a parent believes, placing the emotional weight on a confused grieving child is very damaging. As she stated to Krista in that first post, she tells them that is the only way possible to ever see their sister again and if they don't believe as she does, they lose that chance. That is emotional blackmail. My kids lost their brother. We also believe we will see him again and discuss it in a positive way, but even if I truly believed it, I would never place the weight of "if you don't believe this way, you won't see him like the rest of us"  because that would be a deep emotional threat they would have to struggle with as I don't want them to be adult members of our Church due to emotional guilt, fear of losing a sibling again by making a different choice or my demands, but rather openly, intelligently and from what is in their our hearts. I feel placing that burden on young chldren is mean and extremey unfair.

Sarah,

Here is what I said in my 1st post about this topic.  It's a million posts ago but it appears my words are getting twisted.  So, just for the record even though the post is still there to refer to, here's what I said:

"Without God in my children's life they would have no promise of being with their sister again when they get to see her in Heaven one day. I would NEVER take that away from them. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord."

This is obviously only a few lines out of many from the post, but this is what I said about my children seeing their sister again, and never did I say that I tell my children this is why we believe in God.  Her death happened 6 months ago and we have been serving the Lord much longer than that for many more reasons (and some of those reasons were listed in that original post but the focus seems to be on this for some reason, instead of my post as a whole).  Anyway, I wouldn't stop teaching them about God now because I don't want them to fall away from God and lose all the promises God has given us.  The one promise I spoke about here is truly an AWESOME promise.  But then again, He is an awesome God.  I do think Heaven is one of the biggest promises He gives us.  I definetly don't want my children to miss out on that promise because I didn't teach them about it.  We talk to our boys openly and positively about God and Heaven and death and life and sins and everything we possibly can at the time that is age appropriate.  It works out great for us. 

Sarah - posted on 06/03/2009

Betsy, i never thought i'd be sticking up for a Christian, however, i don't think Libby is 'emotionally blackmailing' her kids. She is teaching them the way of life that she believes in and by the sounds of it, what her kids believe in too. although you or i may feel that what she believes isn't true, she does!! she's teaching her kids good morals and giving them hope. when her kids grow up, i'd imagine their faith will be as strong as their mothers, but they have free will to look into other avenues and then if they choose another path, they will still have hope to see their sister again, from whatever path they do find.
Libby is a Christian, so she will teach her children Christian values and i don't think we can judge that. yes perhaps some of her earlier posts have been a bit full on, but a lot of things she has said are thoughtful and kind of inspiring!
i'm not religious at all, but i'm not going to try and talk anyone out of raising their kids to those values, because there's a whole lot of worse values you could be teaching a child.
live and let live i say! :)

Jen - posted on 06/03/2009

I was raised a Catholic, my husband has no religion... I am raising my daughter Catholic. Science and religion are not mutually exclusive- the Big Bang Theory was penned by a Vatican priest, I believe... Evolution is...

I do not understand why so many believe that raising a child in a particular religion means that you are "pushing it down their throats" or do not respect other religions and lifestyles. I decided that I like who I am and I like who my siblings are (they don't practice) and what made us who we are is growing up with a Catholic base. So, I will give that to my children. I also decided that since my spiritual "lexicon" is Catholic, that I will seek a deeper understanding of that religion to express my belief in God rather than trying on every other religion. That is not to say that I do not want to learn about other religions, just that the expression of my own spirituality will be within the Catholic church.

I feel sad that people have been told that they are going to hell (certainly not a way to win believers!)... sure I believe in hell (all you have to do is look around and see that many people are already in their own personal hell), but who am I to say that someone really is going there?

Sorry, back to the point. I want my children to have a spiritual lexicon to help them keep hope alive in this world.

Betsy - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Libby:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Sarah:

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

just realised i kinda contradicted myself there! so i will amend that, to say that,

to say libby shouldn't tell her kids they will see their sister in Heaven seems really MEAN.

it's what i meant just didn't phrase it right!! :)

Thank you for your thoughts on this Sarah.  While it does feel mean and I was hurt with the first post about that, I have prayed about it and I know they are just words.  It did seem cruel as my scars from losing my daughter are so fresh, but in the end I still have the hope of seeing her again, and so does my children.  No one can take that away from me.  And I definetly want to give my children that hope too.  I had said in a post before that we don't grieve like those with no hope.  Meaning, we (those that believe in God and Heaven, etc.) don't grieve like those with no hope in seeing their loved ones again in Heaven.  It is something my pastor has said several times before and it has really stuck with me because that is something that helps me get through this; knowing that I will see her again.  Thank you for your kind words. 

Sarah, it was in the the she worded the comments from her own posts, along with her attitudes towards belief systems of others. It is one thing to say "we believe we will see her again" as a form of comfort and positive thinking, opposed to her explanation that she tells them they must believe as it is the ONLY possible way to ever see their sister again, as she wrote in her first post. A child hearing comments like that is going to have that emotional guilt as they grow into adults if they even questioned looking into other faiths of the world. Even if that being the only way is what a parent believes, placing the emotional weight on a confused grieving child is very damaging. As she stated to Krista in that first post, she tells them that is the only way possible to ever see their sister again and if they don't believe as she does, they lose that chance. That is emotional blackmail. My kids lost their brother. We also believe we will see him again and discuss it in a positive way, but even if I truly believed it, I would never place the weight of "if you don't believe this way, you won't see him like the rest of us"  because that would be a deep emotional threat they would have to struggle with as I don't want them to be adult members of our Church due to emotional guilt, fear of losing a sibling again by making a different choice or my demands, but rather openly, intelligently and from what is in their our hearts. I feel placing that burden on young chldren is mean and extremey unfair.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Libby:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Sarah:

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

just realised i kinda contradicted myself there! so i will amend that, to say that,

to say libby shouldn't tell her kids they will see their sister in Heaven seems really MEAN.

it's what i meant just didn't phrase it right!! :)

Thank you for your thoughts on this Sarah.  While it does feel mean and I was hurt with the first post about that, I have prayed about it and I know they are just words.  It did seem cruel as my scars from losing my daughter are so fresh, but in the end I still have the hope of seeing her again, and so does my children.  No one can take that away from me.  And I definetly want to give my children that hope too.  I had said in a post before that we don't grieve like those with no hope.  Meaning, we (those that believe in God and Heaven, etc.) don't grieve like those with no hope in seeing their loved ones again in Heaven.  It is something my pastor has said several times before and it has really stuck with me because that is something that helps me get through this; knowing that I will see her again.  Thank you for your kind words. 

your welcome! everyone has ways of getting through hard times and your's is probably one of the better ways! i'm glad you haven't been upset too much by their comments, it shows how strong you are, and i for one am certain you will hold your daughter again.

Hope is a wonderful thing and i embrace it, whether i believe in God or not, i think we're all trying to do the best for our kids and that's the main thing!

I am certain I will hold her too.  I am very blessed to believe in that promise.  Losing her was the worst time in my life.  It is extremely unnatural to bury your child and NO ONE should have to go through it.  I know we all deal with it differently though.  There are things in life that are unexplained but I will understand it the day I see her again.  My strength you speak about comes from God.  I'm glad you also embrace hope, no matter where it comes from, hope is so important. 

Terra - posted on 06/03/2009

What a great gift you are offering her. You are right in that statement that there are so many religions and who are we to denounce any of them. Many of the religions use the same bible but get a different meaning. Just as any written word, people will get different things from it even by the way the read it. I had a wonderful pastor that set up different sundays for our confermation class to attend other churches so that we could make educated decisions. It was a wonderful experience and reinforced my decision that I had picked a religion right for me. Even though my mother was not religous I grew up and now teach sunday school. God is a loving God and that is the main lesson.

Sarah - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Libby:

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Sarah:

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

just realised i kinda contradicted myself there! so i will amend that, to say that,

to say libby shouldn't tell her kids they will see their sister in Heaven seems really MEAN.

it's what i meant just didn't phrase it right!! :)

Thank you for your thoughts on this Sarah.  While it does feel mean and I was hurt with the first post about that, I have prayed about it and I know they are just words.  It did seem cruel as my scars from losing my daughter are so fresh, but in the end I still have the hope of seeing her again, and so does my children.  No one can take that away from me.  And I definetly want to give my children that hope too.  I had said in a post before that we don't grieve like those with no hope.  Meaning, we (those that believe in God and Heaven, etc.) don't grieve like those with no hope in seeing their loved ones again in Heaven.  It is something my pastor has said several times before and it has really stuck with me because that is something that helps me get through this; knowing that I will see her again.  Thank you for your kind words. 

your welcome! everyone has ways of getting through hard times and your's is probably one of the better ways! i'm glad you haven't been upset too much by their comments, it shows how strong you are, and i for one am certain you will hold your daughter again.

Hope is a wonderful thing and i embrace it, whether i believe in God or not, i think we're all trying to do the best for our kids and that's the main thing!

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Sarah:

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

just realised i kinda contradicted myself there! so i will amend that, to say that,

to say libby shouldn't tell her kids they will see their sister in Heaven seems really MEAN.

it's what i meant just didn't phrase it right!! :)

Thank you for your thoughts on this Sarah.  While it does feel mean and I was hurt with the first post about that, I have prayed about it and I know they are just words.  It did seem cruel as my scars from losing my daughter are so fresh, but in the end I still have the hope of seeing her again, and so does my children.  No one can take that away from me.  And I definetly want to give my children that hope too.  I had said in a post before that we don't grieve like those with no hope.  Meaning, we (those that believe in God and Heaven, etc.) don't grieve like those with no hope in seeing their loved ones again in Heaven.  It is something my pastor has said several times before and it has really stuck with me because that is something that helps me get through this; knowing that I will see her again.  Thank you for your kind words. 

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

Quoting Sarah:

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

just realised i kinda contradicted myself there! so i will amend that, to say that,

to say libby shouldn't tell her kids they will see their sister in Heaven seems really MEAN.

it's what i meant just didn't phrase it right!! :)

Thank you for your thoughts on this Sarah.  While it does feel mean and I was hurt with the first post about that, I have prayed about it and I know they are just words.  It did seem cruel as my scars from losing my daughter are so fresh, but in the end I still have the hope of seeing her again, and so does my children.  No one can take that away from me.  And I definetly want to give my children that hope too.  I had said in a post before that we don't grieve like those with no hope.  Meaning, we (those that believe in God and Heaven, etc.) don't grieve like those with no hope in seeing their loved ones again in Heaven.  It is something my pastor has said several times before and it has really stuck with me because that is something that helps me get through this; knowing that I will see her again.  Thank you for your kind words. 

Sairah - posted on 06/03/2009

I know this thread is mostly about Christians and non-Christians, but I thought I'd put my $0.02 in.



I'm a muslim, born to a muslim family. My parents are very devout, and I have learned about Islam at their feet. I myself totally believe every precept of Islam.



I believe it is VERY important to introduce your child to God, to right and wrong, to accountability. And if I'm not going to do it, who is?



But, if a parent decides that religion is not for them, who am I to judge? No parent wants anything but the best for their kids.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Krista:

Quoting Tina:

I think it's interesting how you mention "forcing our beliefs on our kids". Do you not think that what ever you decide to teach your children could be considered "forcing your beliefs on them"? Regardless of what you decide to teach them, whether it be...don't lie, don't hit, don't steal....believe what you want to believe, you are still "teaching them" or "forcing them" to think the way you do.

No, I think that teaching my kids to be respectful, honest, accepting, kind...and every other trait that I hope to instill in them... is completely different from teaching them that there is ONE true religion, ONLY one god, and only one way to get to heaven.  I don't see how teaching kindness and respect could be construed as "forcing my beliefs" on my kids...unless other parents don't also agree that those are important traits for all children to acquire.  Forcing my religious beliefs on my kids would be much different, though, because religion is not universal...there are many beliefs and I don't think that one religion is more right than another. 

I understand what Tina was trying to say.  It seems far fetched, but you'd be surprised at what some parents will or will not teach their kids.  There was a story on the news yesterday about this woman who got arrested because she "forced" her children into stealing to pay for the rent and bills because she lost her job (I think they were teenagers).  Outside of religion, you'd think we'd all have the same morals to teach our children, but unfortunately there are those few that maybe didn't get those morals either so they are less likely to teach them to their children.  Just food for thought.  When I read these thoughts about this I immediately thought about that news story!

Sarah - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Sarah:

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

just realised i kinda contradicted myself there! so i will amend that, to say that,

to say libby shouldn't tell her kids they will see their sister in Heaven seems really MEAN.

it's what i meant just didn't phrase it right!! :)

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Jen:

I was raised Lutheran and my husband was raised Baptist. We are currently attending a non-demoninational church and couldn't love it more. Both my husband and I spent many years "away" from a relationship with Christ and were so unhappy, though we didn't know it at the time. Since we, as a couple and family have been actively pursuing a relationship with Christ things have changed dramatically. Our son who previously had numerous issues has completely overcome them. I honestly believe we have been able to weather several financial storms due to our faith and diligence in tithing. My marriage has become more loving than I could ever have imagined. I love the Lord and am teaching my children to love the Lord, not because of how I was raised but because of what I have learned as an adult in the years I spend away from Christ and how wonderful my life has become since I put my faith and trust in Him.

That is wonderful Jen!  God certainly doesn't promise us that there won't be any hard times, but He does promise us that He'll be there with us through them.  We have weathered quite a bit the last few years too and without God I'm not sure how we could've gotten through them.  I too am teaching my children because of what I've learned as an adult.  I believed in  God as a child but didn't learn anything about God because my family never went to church.  I went with friends to their youth groups, but that doesn't have the same learning experience as it does when your family takes you and supports you and knows what you're learning about because they actively participate.  Some people have said they aren't going to teach their child about religion but won't deny their children if they want to go to church or youth groups or whatever.  But I've always felt that I want to know what my children are learning.  That's why I spend so much time in their schools actively volunteering and participating.  I can't imagine not doing the same when it comes to something as important as their faith.  I volunteer at church during activities and teach the youth once a month.  After I have my next child I will also volunteer in the nursery since I will have a little one in there too.  It's not quite the same as being involved in the teaching aspects, even though I will still do that too, but I still think it shows my children that I am helping with what is important to our family.  Well, anyway, I'm glad you are in a church family that you love.  We are too and we couldn't be happier.

Sarah - posted on 06/03/2009

i've said a few things on this post, and i've followed most it, i find religion an intersting debate. i've stated i'm not religious (tho i like to think i'm spiritual!) but to say that Libby shouldn't tell her children that they will see their sister in Heaven seems really WRONG!
Libby is clearly a Christian so why wouldn't she tell them that???
i'm not a Christian, but i'm in her circumstance i would do the exact same thing! (even if i meant heaven in a slightly different way!)
personally, i've found Libby's comments to me very respectful!
No-one is ever going to change peoples views of their faith, i wouldn't dream of telling Libby she's wrong, or anyone else for that matter. i may not agree, but hey, life would be dull if everyone agreed all the time!! :)

Krista - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Tina:

I think it's interesting how you mention "forcing our beliefs on our kids". Do you not think that what ever you decide to teach your children could be considered "forcing your beliefs on them"? Regardless of what you decide to teach them, whether it be...don't lie, don't hit, don't steal....believe what you want to believe, you are still "teaching them" or "forcing them" to think the way you do.

No, I think that teaching my kids to be respectful, honest, accepting, kind...and every other trait that I hope to instill in them... is completely different from teaching them that there is ONE true religion, ONLY one god, and only one way to get to heaven.  I don't see how teaching kindness and respect could be construed as "forcing my beliefs" on my kids...unless other parents don't also agree that those are important traits for all children to acquire.  Forcing my religious beliefs on my kids would be much different, though, because religion is not universal...there are many beliefs and I don't think that one religion is more right than another. 

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Jenifer:

I think you missed my point. I certainly understand prayer - I have prayed before, and I've prayed for others before. I no longer believe that there exists anyone to pray to. But someone telling me that they're praying that I accept Christianity, is a bit of a passive-aggressive way of saying they have no respect for my belief system. I wouldn't approach someone who is Christian and tell them that they're delusional and wasting valuable time praying to no one at all. Why do Christians think it is okay to tell me that they pray I'll convert? People can pray all they want, but I don't share those beliefs, and I'd rather not be harassed about it, which seems to be inevitable here in the US.

Jenifer,

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying you don't understand prayer.  I apologize if I gave that impression.  I was just simply saying since you said you don't benefit from those prayers, that you actually do.  Not everybody is going to verbalize to you when they pray for your well being or when they know their prayer was answered.  So, you may not see the direct benefit there, but it's there.  And I'm sure the person praying for you is thankful their prayer was answered.  That's all.  It didn't really have to do with explaining how prayer works, it was really a more simple message than that.  Take care.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Betsy:

Quoting Libby:

Quoting Betsy:

Thanks and you're welcome. I think many have felt the same way, but it is obvious, at this point in her life, she isn't going to understand what Christians and non-Christians are saying. Unfortunately with people like that, it many times ends up backfiring, which I do hope she becomes enlightened about as she gets older. We have seen so many posts here with people saying they were raised with Christianity. It does seem that those who are raised with it jammed down their throats and an unwillingness to even recognize all the other belief systems in the world, they are more likely to want no part of being Christian as adults, raising their own children. Those who were shown other relgions and were taught a genuine respect in the faith of others tend to stick with being Christian. This is true for myself, my husband and now our adult son.

Even being a Christian myself, to say following what I want my children to believe being the only way to see a deceased sibling again, I personally find troubling and unstable. There is a mature way to have your beliefs but still not emotionally blackmail children. Having buried our son in 1996, I could never use the emotions regarding the death of their sibling to say either believe what I tell you to believe or you'll never see your brother again, especially with children. For me, that's a line that shouldn't be crossed and troubles me greatly, not finding that being the best thing to do regarding a child's emotional health, but people are going to do what they want to do, and if they don't comprehend that naturally, there is nothing you can do.

I have never been so appalled until this very moment.  What you claim is emotionally blackmailing is actual an huge comfort to my children who only got to meet their dead sister.  A 6 year old and 4 year old looked at their dead sister wrapped up in a blanket and said their goodbyes never to see her again on this earth.  They find it comforting that they can talk to her because she is in Heaven.  They know that they can pray to God and talk to Him about their sister.  They know that when they get to Heaven they will be able to have a relationship with their sister, one they never had the chance to have.  Perhaps you are troubled and unstable by saying such ridiculous things about me and my children and our relationship with God.  Our family has had a relationship with God since God helped create our family.  Our daughter died 6 months ago tomorrow.  So, this wasn't something I threw at my children and told them to believe or they'll never see her again.  This was something we believe because it is right.  I have entertained such ridiculous comments on this thread aimed at me but never until right now have I ever felt like someone was being so cruel.  I don't want you to speak my name, speak about me, talk about any of my children (living or deceased).  You have taken one statement amongst probably a hundred things that I have said about religion and turned it into something dirty and disgusting.  I'm surprised you call yourself a Christian after slandering my faith in such a heinous way.  Please, out of respect, do not comment back to me or regarding me to anyone else in any of your posts. 

 

Sorry but that is the impression you give from your own words, and as the mom of 5 living and 1 deceased child, I find that appalling and irresponsible. From the way you have spoken in every single one of your posts to others who do not agree ith you, you can't believe you can now order what is discussed or what posts are responded to....time to grown up.  You have made sure everyone hears repeatedly what you believe, how they are wrong, how irresponsible parenting it is and your mind knows the only TRUTH. Well, if you are going to put all that out there, you need to also be ready to hear the truth. I know you like the dramatics, lol which can be blatently seen in this last post lol, but on a serious note, as the mother of a deceased child, I do find your methods beyond reprehensible.  If you don't want critique on that, don't put it out there or you choices are going to be discussed, just like you have to the OP and many others. I find the comments you made about following your belief system being the only way to see a loved deceased sibling as being sheer ignorance to a child's emotional well-being, and I will share that opinion from 20 yrs of having babies and raising them. Comments like that ARE emotional blackmail. I don't feel you are ill-intentioned, but I do feel, from how you have written all your posts and the things you say, that you are very immature and do not know better yet, especially of how harming your attitudes with comments like that can be for a child's emotional state. I do love these legal terms like "slander" being thrown out there though. I'm an attorney, so if you want to accuse someone of something, try understanding the correct meaning of the word and what actually constitutes slander. Giving an opinion on your own words that you publicize across the world isn't slander in any court of the nation.

 

You may be offended by my comments, but oh well. As someone who buried their own child 13 yrs ago, you definitely offended me with those comments, and we can see you have been offending others here for days.

It is obvious to me by your words and belittling of someone you know nothing about that your emotional state is in question, not those of my children.  You are totally consumed in yourself and cannot see what you are doing or saying about others.  You are no authority figure to tell me and my family how to deal with the death of my child.  You obviously think you are by stating this or that about being a mother of 20 years, or burying a child or being an attorney, or you just simply think you are the posting police here.  All of that means nothing to me because all you are trying to do is belittle my experience.  You are wasting your breath.  I have prayed about this and God has given me a peace in my heart to know that what you are saying is just words that add no meaning to my life.  Preach your mommy and attorney speech to someone else because it is completely lost on me.  I thought maybe you could respectfully refrain from having a conversation about me.  But this obviuosly isn't a phone call and I can't just hang up on you.  So, you'll do and say what you want because you feel you are better than me and think you have the right to tell me how to deal with my daughter's death from 6 months ago.  But the more you post such cruel things to a person who has just lost a child, the more people can see you for who you really are.  So, you are not hurting me, my God has given me peace, you are hurting your own reputation.  Perhaps it's time for you to move on.  God bless.

Jen - posted on 06/03/2009

I was raised Lutheran and my husband was raised Baptist. We are currently attending a non-demoninational church and couldn't love it more. Both my husband and I spent many years "away" from a relationship with Christ and were so unhappy, though we didn't know it at the time. Since we, as a couple and family have been actively pursuing a relationship with Christ things have changed dramatically. Our son who previously had numerous issues has completely overcome them. I honestly believe we have been able to weather several financial storms due to our faith and diligence in tithing. My marriage has become more loving than I could ever have imagined. I love the Lord and am teaching my children to love the Lord, not because of how I was raised but because of what I have learned as an adult in the years I spend away from Christ and how wonderful my life has become since I put my faith and trust in Him.

Libby - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting Yupawadee(Bird):

 

Very interesting that you will not accept blessings that I have offered you in the name of other gods and religions Libby. 

I dont for 1 second hold you of any standard, be it higher or lower, you are just different and that is OK. 

And yes you have commented back on other faiths and religions and asked but always there is that questioning undertone of disapproval of these peoples eminating from you, maybe I am wrong and if so I whole-heartedly apologise for my misinterpretation of your words.

I do respectfully disagree with you but that does not mean to say that I dont respect you, you have so much faith and belief in your chosen religion and it is a beautiful thing.

I wish you well Libby

I'm not sure why you would say when I have asked those questions about other faiths that I was eminating disapproval.  I respectfully asked a question and the poster politely replied.  However you took it I guess I cannot control but don't read into words that aren't there.  I had very good conversations with those people and I'm glad I asked and was informed.  But I'm glad we can just respectfully disagree at this point.  Take care.

Cathy - posted on 06/03/2009

Quoting FredSusan:

Quoting Catherine:

This is one thing that confuses me in Christian religion. You don't believe in the idea of evolution of man, right? Adam and Eve were the originals? Wouldn't that have to mean we all have to be descendants of incest? Isn't that a sin? I'm not trying to be offensive I'd just like an opinion on this.

This is from an excerpt of the writing of  a guy named Ray Comfort.  He's great at answering the hard questions.  "Many ask this question thinking they've found a mistake in the Bible that there must have been other people besides Adam & Eve.  Scripture tells us that Adam is the first man (1Cor.15:45); that there were no other humans when he was created, because God said, It is not good that the man should be alone (Gen. 2:18); and that Eve is the mother of all living (Gen 3:20).  Cain and Abel, then, must have married distant sisters.  All of the first-generation siblings married each other in order to populate the earth.  At that time there was no law against incest.  But as the population grew large enough, and as the risk of genetic problems increased because of sin's curse, God outlawed marriage between siblings."  

This is just something I found.  It is a man's opinion that I respect, don't know what to think of it myself.  I just didn't want you to think that your question wasn't worth the time to try to answer.  Great question!  Like I said, Ray Comfort has done lots of research and is able to answer lots of questions like these.  Google him and check it out.  

Thank you for your answer. My take on Genesis and the seven days of creation has always taken a more metophorical meaning. Seven days to man may be 700 billion years to God. A which point evolution comes in to play as Gods plan. But it's important for me to understand what others believe, and to do that I need to ask questions. The same as I hope my children will do!