Same sex marriage

Vette - posted on 03/24/2010 ( 202 moms have responded )

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I am not against people spending their lives together. What I have a problem with is the word "marriage". I believe a marriage is between a man and a women. I know everyone has a right to love and be loved. I could get behind the title "life-partner" because the laws do prohibit them from certain things. Do you think a change in the word would make a difference for you on the issue?

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Angela - posted on 03/31/2010

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Boy looking at some of these posts makes me glad I'm an atheist! To have your whole life dictated by a piece of a paper written thousands of years ago? To have to be so small minded and prejudiced even though you know it isn't right? 'God' didn't fax the bible from heaven people! Also some of you if you're going to be prejudiced then have the balls to admit that it is YOU with the problem, take some responsisbility for your beliefs and don't just hide behind your church doctrine.

Also I object to the use of the words 'sexual preference' with regard to homosexuality. It is nothing to do with what you 'prefer'. It is so much more than who you choose to bump hips with. Just as your gender is so much more than what happens to be sitting between your legs. It is an essential part of your core being, your emotional mentality, your very soul if your believe in such a thing.

Love, respect, equality, unity, these are things that are sorely lacking in our world today. I am totally for anything puts more of these things out there, including gay marriage. If everybody spent a bit more time thinking about their own lives rather than looking at what other people are up to then the world would be a better place. God or no god we are all answerable to our own consciences.

Lucy - posted on 03/29/2010

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@Jamie, the rare cases of abuse that occur in schools etc statistically pale into insignificance compared to the systematic abuse of children in the catholic church. It has recently come to light that HUNDREDS of children were abused by priests in Ireland over a 30 year period, and that this was DELIBERATELY covered up by the bishops there. Priests were not punished, the police were never involved and offenders were simply moved to different parishes to continue this abuse. It is a major scandal, and cannot be compared to anything else we have seen in the modern age.



I respect the views of individual catholics, such as yourself, even though I may not agree with them, but cannot begin to fathom how an institution that has fostered such wickedness can claim the right to judge others for whom they wish to marry.

Charlie - posted on 03/28/2010

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"funny how a child of that age would knew that it was wrong."



Theres nothing funny about it , he is a product of his environment .



Ignorance breeds ignorance .

Kate CP - posted on 03/25/2010

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Marriage was NOT originally about love. It was about selling off a woman to another man to further the family line. Gee, that sounds like a great tradition to continue. It was only "religious" because the church WAS the government. Before organized faith couples paired off to procreate, yes, but there were also instances of same sex couples who paired off because they couldn't procreate or weren't allowed to. So, the fundamentals of marriage have already been flipped by straight couples. Honestly, who cares if we flip it a little more for gays and lesbians?

Johnny - posted on 03/29/2010

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The Catholic Church, and any other church for that matter, has the right not to perform same-sex marriages if they contravene the teachings of the church. Here in Canada, gay marriage is legal and is performed in many churches. However, the Catholic church (and many other churches) do not perform same-sex marriages and are protected by law from being forced to do so. No church can be forced to sanctify any act that it deems to be immoral by it's own laws. Canadian law even protects Catholic (and other religious) organizations from being forced to host same-sex wedding receptions in their community halls. They are considered property of the religious organization. This protects people's right to freedom of religion and ensures that same-sex couples have the legal right to wed. No church has the right to impose it's morality on all people within the country, and the country does not have the right to impose it's morality on a specific church. Now, this is unfortunate for gay Catholics, but you choose your religion, you don't choose your sexual orientation.

If religious people want to be protected from state intervention in their religion by the rules governing the separation of church and state, then they need to understand that they do not then have the right to impose their specific moral beliefs onto the laws of the state.

I understand that many Christians believe that homosexuality is a sin. I also know that many other Christians do not agree with this assessment of biblical text and do not see homosexuality as a sin. People need to learn to take responsibility for their own beliefs and dogma. You may choose to believe that God sees homosexual acts as a sin, but that is your choice, and no one has the right to force their beliefs onto others.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

202 Comments

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Camille - posted on 07/11/2011

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Straight couples have expressed and cherished their love by getting married. I don't see why gay couples can't do that. The wedding is the celebration. The document is just that a document, a piece of paper. A marriage is the couple. Teresa: being gay is not worse than being a murderer or a theft or a racist. Being gay is. Like being straight is. Being gay is not bad for society like being a murderer.

Jamie - posted on 04/04/2010

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I personally, find it disturbing that someone would show such hatred. As you know if you have been following this thread, I do not support gay marriage, but my gosh who are you to tell somone to "go find a man." If a woman is happy with another woman, than good for them! Seriously, there is nothing wrong with being gay/lesbian. Just because of my beliefs I don't support marriage (not only for gay/lesbian but I also don't think it is right unless it is by the church).

Leane - posted on 04/02/2010

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i think it's funny how SOME hetrosexuals are against homosexuality yet NO homosexual people that i know of are against hetrosexuality. kinda makes u think who the most accepting people are. I hate being given any title weather it's bi sexual homosexual, lesbian etc i am just a woman who has found love with someone whom i believe is my soul mate. isn't that what anyone wants and what most people search all they're lives to find, i guess i'm just lucky that i have found that person. everyone is entitled to they're opinion i agree but it's usually hetrosexual people giving they're opinion about homosexual people not the other way around.

[deleted account]

I'm chilled. Completely. I don't care if you read it or not. I was just offering a suggestion since you said the topic made you uncomfortable. And what is the 'you all' comment about. If you read my first response to this post... I AM against homosexuality and believe it is a sin. I also don't believe it is any better or worse than any other sin that every single human being commits every single day of their life though.... including myself. Aren't you the one that said homosexuals should just 'quit it and find a man'? Comments like those are the reasons so many people assume that if you are against homosexuality you must be full of hate. :(

[deleted account]

mmhmm, youre right teresa... nobody is forcing me really but since we all have the right to express our opinions hence i found it necessary to mention how inappropriate i found this debate! you all may carry on with your beliefs and practice what you feel is right... but i seriously want to convey my stance on this issue (as i feel) for everyone's benefit!!! plus, my getting uncomfortable was also because ive never come across a real controversial issue on COM! yep we all have different suggestions in response to the questions posted here, but there has to be smthng abt this topic that has us all getting involved in a heated debate!so chill, and once again we all shd relax and accept each others points of view respectfully whether they are based on religion or spirituality or atheism or hetrosexuality! just as much as i need to increase my tolerance level, so does everyone else over here!

[deleted account]

Sunya, if this conversation has you uncomfortable then my best advice would be to quit reading it. No one is forcing you to, are they?

Jenny - posted on 04/01/2010

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I wasnt talking about casting judgement on ME, I was talking about anyone on this page. Sorry for the confusion.

Dree - posted on 04/01/2010

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This is the only response I'm giving you...then from here on out I will just simply prove to you that I am the best person here and ignore those posts that are "uncomfortable" as you put it earlier.

This is not worth my time arguing about. I only hope that your God forgives you for judging others....cause you know after all that is a MAJOR sin and not your place to do.

[deleted account]

in the beginning only i mentioned that we have been ASKED for what we think on this issue... and well, dree im very sorry but i disagree with you and i earnestly pray that you quit and find a nice guy! and not because im holding smthing aginst you rather because it would be a normal course for you to follow... getting married settling down having babies WITH the man you love!!!! raising children in a same sex union isnt right.... u need not get hot over my remark!!! just as much as you dont understand my point of view, similarly i COMPLETELY fail to understand the majority posts here!!!and well we all shd cool down over this debate now.... cuz agn its abt opinions and we all need to respect each other!

Dree - posted on 04/01/2010

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@Sunya

As a matter of fact this topic has everything to do with parenting. In case you FAILED to notice in all my earlier posts...I am lesbian. I am PROUD of sexual orientation. I have been with my girlfriend for nearly 4 yrs now. She has two children from a previous marriage. So does this have to do with parenting in my case...HELL YES IT DOES. Do I want more children...of course I do. I would love to have a child of my own. Have I been pregnant in the past even with my sexuality...you better believe it. But in my case I lost my son at 5.5mths gestation. And if your going to blame my loss on my sexuality...then keep the comment to yourself. It's been almost 5yrs ago now and I STILL struggle with not have my Ryleigh here with me. Did I concieve naturally...yes I did thanks to the help of a very close friend that I trusted 100%. So please tell me once more that this topic...at least in my case....isnt about parenting???

[deleted account]

@lucy
im a little disturbed by the nature of this topic... really this particular one has absolutely nthng to do with parenting! maybe youre right... but well this topic has me uncomfortable!

Lucy - posted on 04/01/2010

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@Sunya-



When you join COM and read the rules of conduct etc, it is made clear that it is a support and discussion network for parents, but that it is not necessary for all the topics to be directly related to parenting. I see plenty of threads (some of which you have commented on) that are not directly related to parenting, so I don't know why you would particularly pick on this one out as a problem.



If you have no interest in a topic posted, don't read the thread or add your comments, it's as simple as that.

[deleted account]

i am a little disppointed at why this discussion in particular has lasted so very long! we are all moms here and instead of sticking to moms' issues we have sort of steered away from the motive of this group and are discussing smthng highly irrelevant!why are you all not discussing this on some gay-lesbian blog or website or group???? i understand you all believe in freedom of all kinds of speech but really i dont think this is the right forum for that! and if in future also we will be coming across such discussions then i will withdraw from the group(not that it will make a difference to anybody but at least i will be at peace!)

[deleted account]

I'm against it. I believe homosexuality is a sin. I don't have the right to tell other people what to do w/ their lives or to judge them though. That's between them and God.

Issues like this are the main reason I don't vote. I can not/will not ever vote against my beliefs, but since I don't feel like I have the right to tell other people what to do.... I'm stuck either not voting or being accused of trying to impose my beliefs on others or being accused of hatred which couldn't be further from the truth. I hate no one.... even my crummy, creep of an ex. ;)

Johnny - posted on 03/31/2010

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I always find no end of amusement when the people casting judgment on a whole entire segment of society then complain that they are having judgment cast on them. If you wish to be intolerant, that is fine, but you can not then expect to be tolerated for it. You have the right to your opinion and anyone who wishes to has the right to strongly disagree with you.

Sylvia - posted on 03/31/2010

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Sorry, are you serious?



No, "life partner" would not make a difference to me. I can't think of anything that would convince me that two consenting adults of the same gender shouldn't have the exact same right to marry that two consenting adults of opposite genders have.



Thank heavens I live in a country where most people seem to have gotten over this kind of ugly prejudice.

Jenny - posted on 03/31/2010

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The original posted question was "whats our opinion on same sex marriages"
she WANTED our opinions. Its an interesting topic for disscusion, and can get people angry, there is no need to cast judgement on anyone. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. I have enjoyed reading EVERYONES posts.

Tiffany - posted on 03/31/2010

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I dont see why same sex marriages should be anyone buisness. If you believe its wrong, it dont matter. Its still gonna happen no matter what anyone thinks. If someone wants to marry someone of the same sex, oh well, so be it. Thats their choice and not yours. And if u are against it for religious reasons, who are you to say its wrong. who are u to say its a sin. who are you to judge them. In the end, only God can determine who sins. Only God can judge. Even if the bible says it a sin, even if the churches say its a sin, Its not your place to say. Let them do as they wish. Why dont the religious people concentrate more on bringing theirselvs closer to God and the people who are just against it, concentrate on something more productive and leave the people who chose to live their life that way alone. It is their life, let them live it the way they want to.

[deleted account]

if marriage is really something religious or whatever a bunch of you are saying... what about us atheists? i do not believe in god, i am not affiliated with any religion whatsoever, and im getting "married" in july... so really what does it matter if you're gay or straight, catholic or christian or atheist? i agree with everyone who said that marriage is simply two people who want to spend their lives together and become family. why make it more than that?

Emma - posted on 03/31/2010

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Katherine Collins, I thank you. I don't think anything more needs to be said. Case closed, as they say.

Jenny - posted on 03/31/2010

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Also homosexuality is severley unchristian and ungodly. Sure if I wanted to spend my life with another woman that I loved I guess I would have a right to, but that still wouldnt make it okay. I feel very strongly about my beliefs and opinions, I really didnt mean to offend anyone. Sorry if I did.

Jenny - posted on 03/31/2010

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I wasnt talking about religion, God and religion are two seperate things. I also respect other peoples views they will do what they want anyway and nobody will change that. I do know some homosexuals, whom I love very much, just because I dont agree with their lifestyle doesnt mean I treat them differently than anyone else. Afterall Jesus taught to treat others how you want to be treated. We are all sinners, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. I am not a religious person, but I do believe in what the Bible teaches, and homosexuality is wrong. Thats my opinion and Gods also.

Lucy - posted on 03/31/2010

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@ those who can't get away from the sin issue- The bible also teaches that smoking, wearing gold jewellery and eating meat on a friday are sins on an equal footing with homosexuality, but as most people accept, times move on.

I happen to be a vegetarian non smoker, so who knows if those two would bring trouble to my door, but no-one has attempted to stone me to death for wearing jewellery yet!

Kathleen - posted on 03/31/2010

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I want to take this moment to congratulate everyone... whether you be gay or straight on any relationships, marriages that have surpassed the tests and stresses of time. I have been with my husband for 18 years, we have a gorgeous son and a beautiful daughter and if it wasn't for this man I wouldn't be able to be myself. I don't feel that it is because he is male and I am female, it is because there is a bond stronger than anything I can think of. I am a whole complete person because of him. Why would anyone think that this would not be the fact for anyone else, whether that partner is same sex or not. I have respect for all religious views, but the one thing that gets me angered is that all religions tell you to treat people as you would want to be treated and then you cast dispersions on anyone that doesn't share your views or beliefs. That is severely unchristian and ungodly. For those that this offends, I apologize it is simply my view and as an American citizen I am entitle to my opinion and the right to express them. I believe in a higher power and that all things are governed by the laws of nature, but I also believe that the Bible is a very well written history book, because it was written by man. The actual written interpretation of the will of god was derived by man, not sent down from the heavens on a golden cloud or beam of light. Every interpretation is different, hence the different religions of the world. Gay, lesbian, straight, these are all labels, they in no way shape or form tell you about the person you are labeling, and you'd be surprised at what you'd find if you get past the label and actually get to know your fellow man, regardless of their sexual orientation.

Jenny - posted on 03/30/2010

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I am against same sex marriage, I understand that homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time. God teaches that it is a sin, and always will be even if it is 2010.

Nichole - posted on 03/30/2010

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Peter Griffen From Faimly Guy said this: Why dont we let them be Miserable like everyone else? Whats the big deal? LOL

LaQuita - posted on 03/30/2010

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I know of some gay couples that have better relationships than stright couples. So I say go for it!!!! If two people love each other and they want to get married, LET THEM.

[deleted account]

It is, well said Emma.



And I agree with you on the word 'partner', it's become very confusing as it did used to mean business associate, or for Police, the other person in your unit/car. Now I never know what people mean when they refer to their partner, as it can also be used by people in Common law marraiges. Usually I have to just wait for more information to work out whether they mean in their business or personal life. Everyone should have the right to refer to their spouse as husband or wife or they so wish.

Katherine - posted on 03/30/2010

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The overall essence of marriage is to declare love and commitment. I believe that everyone has the right to declare that - if they so choose - and that man, not being God, has no right to dictate and pick and choose the laws stated within the pages of their holy book as though it's an all you can eat buffet.
That is beautiful.

Emma - posted on 03/30/2010

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I agree, Tracy. I think a lot of views are both now outdated and outmoded. The overall essence of marriage is to declare love and commitment. I believe that everyone has the right to declare that - if they so choose - and that man, not being God, has no right to dictate and pick and choose the laws stated within the pages of their holy book as though it's an all you can eat buffet. My mother was with her partner for over twenty years, and I am sure they would have loved to marry - they were both religious and both believed in God btw. Who is man to say that their interpretation of a bible overrides the Dictum given to us (if you go for that kind of thing) that we are to love each other and live as equal, to quote Jesus. I refer to all of my GLTB friends as married - as do they refer to themselves as married. I think to term what they have as a Civil Union or as each other as Life Partner is taking away some of the commitment they have pledged to each other, seeing themselves as married, only to have bigoted views making them sound as though they are either in business together, or have made a lesser commitment, thanks to the terminology used when referring to their marriages.

It's 2010. Surely it's time to see everyone as having the same rigths as each other? Discrimination is more of a sin than falling in love. Call it marriage and give people the respect they deserve.

Tracy - posted on 03/30/2010

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What irks me about the whole "gay marriage" issue is that we have a separation between church and state in this country. Why shouldn't a gay couple be allowed the same legal rights as a hetro couple? Religion has no place in dictating. So you can believe that the earth is flat and sitting on a stack of 7 elephants who are standing on a giant turtle who carries the whole mess through space and you can still have the same rights as the good Christian, agnotic, athiest, etc sitting next to you in the church of Starbucks.

[deleted account]

Thank you Jamie (Erickson) for your response, but the point I was making was that the woman was interviewing me on the annulment of marriage between my ex and I, what right she thought that gave her to comment on my subsequent marriage and children, I do NOT know. It was simply none of her business, so actually NOTHING should have been said at all as I didn't ask for her opinion on my life. Regardless, just b/c the Church says it's a 'sin' does not make it so and that's the last I'm going to say on that. I'm not even going to address the subject of my daughter's 'sins' as she was at the time about 18mths old and is now 4 so I'm fairly certain she hasn't yet done anything to offend the Catholic Church. I dont actually wish to be welcome in the Church b/c essentially I dont agree with the majority of it's teachings, which was the point of the discussion.



Back to the orginal topic, I personally dont believe that homosexuality is a 'sin'- here is a list of some things that I do believe are 'sins':- Paedophilia, persecution, torture, child abuse, slavery, domestic violence, bullying, dictatorship, victimisation, discrimination. These are my personal views only, I dont have the right to categorically state they ARE 'sins'- but I challenge you to look throughtout history find ANY religious organisation that hasn't been guilty of all of these 'sins'. This is why I dont have a religion- organised religion destroys humanity.



Based on the principle of humanity, I think 2 people who want to get married and call their union marriage should be entitled to do so. I dont care what their ethnicity, cross-cultural status, religion, social status or sexual orientation is, if they are ready for the commitment that's all that matters.

Jamie - posted on 03/30/2010

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Emma - If you read the whole thread, your questions would be answered. First off, I was stating facts as to why the catholic church is against same sex marriage. Thats it, facts. Why the catholic church refuses marriage, and why it is a sin. And yes, I do believe in that aspect of the church where I do not believe in same sex marriage, but I also said I think marriage outside of the church is a sin as well.

I have also said how I no know that times have changed, and gay marriage does not bother be even though I do not agree with it. If I recall, I even told a gay person on this post that I wish her all the best in her plans to marry. You can misread my posts all you want, but I know what I have said.

Like I have said many times before, I have my views as a catholic, and would never push them onto you. I respect that your views are different than mine, and I understand why. I would only expect that you would do the same to me, and respect that we will not alway see eye to eye on things.

And by the way, I am wearing a shirt over my bathing suit :)

Jemma - posted on 03/30/2010

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I am for same-sex marriage. I think that if a couple is committed and wants to move forward they should be able to do so. I also feel that if a married couple (same sex or not) decides to call it quits they should have to go through a legal divorce just like any other couple.

Danielle - posted on 03/30/2010

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I don't have a problem with same sex marriage but it bothers me when people fight the Catholic church to have gay marriages in their church. We don't expect gay people to change and they shouldn't expect Catholics to change. That's just my opinion. But hey, if a same sex couple wants to get married at city hall or whatever I think that's great.

Jamie - posted on 03/30/2010

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ok i DO BELEIVE IN SAME SEX MARRIAGE iam gay and i think me and my gurlfriend should b able 2 do the same thangs a man and woman should b able 2 do...Y SHOULD WE B PUT OUT OF EVERYTHANG CAUSE WE R 2 WOMAN??????

Tracy - posted on 03/30/2010

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I agree with Emma!



Also, using the same line of thinking, sterile adults regardless of sexuality should also be denied the right to marriage, if it's ONLY about reproduction.

Emma - posted on 03/30/2010

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Jamie, I have to comment on your views that a marriage is solely there for the 'reproduction of children.' I think it rather laughable that this view is still held in the twenty-first century, to be honest. The view was that a marriage to a woman would ensure than his line would be just that--His line. The husband could be pretty certain that any children born to his wife were his and held his genes, as the woman was in essence, his property. Do you still hold with that view too--after all, the bible does say that wives should honour their husbands and obey his wishes etc etc. Do you obey without question and follow the bible to the letter? Or do you pick and choose which parts of that book you will follow and disregard others?

You also say that 'homosexuality closes the gift of life' to a union. I assume then that you only sleep with your husband merely to procreate, and do not do it for enjoyment or closeness?

Marriage is a bond between two people who wish to publicly declare their love for each other. In the twenty-first century, it IS that simple. The church is sticking by an outdated point of view, and its arguments against same sex marriage are no longer valid. The bible is the same book it has always been, but do you allow your husband to beat you? He has the right--according to the bible. I see in your pic that you wear a swimsuit. Rather immodest, if one takes a biblical view of your attire. Do you cover your head out of respect for modesty when you leave the house? Do you follow Saint Paul and make sure you are practically seen and not heard?

I would bet you don't, and yet you feel free to use one more outdated biblical view to try and say that the word 'marriage' is not applicable to two people who love each other, simply because they happen to be of the same gender. Hmm.

Jamie - posted on 03/30/2010

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You are right, if does say a lot that we are about to have tis discussion and respect each other at the same time. I am sorry, and I think it is horrible that the experience you had with the chuch went like that. What should have been said (at least what I would have said along with, I am positive every priest, deacon, bishop, etc that I have meet) is that your daughter (along with you) are welcome in the church. Yes, it is a sin, but did your daughter do anything wrong? No. And God knows that. And even if she did, he forgives no matter what.

I too have enjoyed our discussion, and thank you also for educating me on your views.

And Carol- I enjoyed your response. I like what you had to say.

[deleted account]

That's an awesome response Carol, I really enjoy reading your posts as they're really well thought-out and informed.



Jamie, I have also really enjoyed our discussion along the way. Especially b/c this is one of the few debates I've been in on this forum where both sides have respected each other's opposing views without getting nasty.



My family dont actually 'say' a "gay person would not be allowed in the congregation." It's what they've been told the rules are according to their priests. They are from several different areas and it seems to be the consensus- which was my point, perhaps it's more widely accepted by Catholic Churches in some places, but certainly not everywhere in the world. I guess it's possible that the heirarchy of the Catholic Church where we are is as you say, very "old fashioned".



One thing though- I understand that in the eyes of the Catholic Church getting divorced is a sin. I'm very familiar with the process b/c my aunt, who converted to Catholicism to marry but was later divorced- not at her choice- by her husband (who was non-practising BTW) and remained Catholic; subsequently had trouble remarrying b/c her marriage was not annulled. I know that she paid and exsorbitant amount of money to the Vatican and a few years later through the Catholic tribunal had her marriage annulled. My ex-husband also paid, I believe almost $2000 to have our marriage annulled and I also had dealings with the Catholic tribunal as I had to be interviewed. I wont go into my thoughts on that whole process b/c that's a whole other can of worms-I just wanted to let you know that I am FULLY aware of the church's stance on the subject. (In fact the woman from the tribunal who interviewed me felt it was appropriate to tell me that my daughter will go to hell b/c our marriage is not recognised, therefore I would be unable to get her baptised, hence, hell. It turned out she was wrong, at least about the baptism, I guess I'll have to wait to find out the rest- but I believe my response was far more Christian than her little speech.)



But I in NO WAY KNOW that it is a sin. With the greatest of respect there were reasons that we both divorced, which I will not go into; but suffice it to say if indeed there is a God I feel sure that he would not expect people to either remain in a dangerous or even more morally perilous situation. And I'll leave it at that on the subject of divorce, if that's ok- since I feel strongly about that too and I'm digressing from the original topic.



But back to the topic of the church's position about sins with respect to homosexuality- I do understand your explanation and I'm glad you enjoy educating people on your faith- but I did already know about these particular aspects and as with many other teachings, such as the above issue, I dont agree with them. But I appreciate you taking the time out.

[deleted account]

i support you on this jamie, evil exists everywhere... if a few heads of some church have indulged in this terrible act, it does not provide the entire mankind with a justification to go ahead with whatever they desire be it good or bad! some things just are WRONG!

Jamie - posted on 03/29/2010

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Lol trust me Mandie, I am not a "perfect catholic" nor would ever claim to be. I obviously had pre-marital sex as I was almost 7 months pregnant at my wedding. My husband is not a catholic - he, like you, has no religion. We were able to get married in the catholic church, and it is recognized by the church. Our daughter is baptised in the church, and she too will make her sacraments up until her confirmation - then it is her choice if she wants to continue her faith. I honestly don't understand why your family says a "gay person would not be allowed in the congregation" It makes no sense to me and I have spoken to several priests and bishops about it in the past. There is no reason why anyone, no matter there sexual orientation, race, etc. would not be allowed in church. Being gay is not a sin, it is the act of sex. I even know of a married gay couples who attend catholic church, no one would ever look at them different, or tell them they are wrong. Yes, they are living in sin (but so is every other single person in the world), but it does not change the fact that they are welcome in the eyes of god. Is it possible the church they attend has a very "old fashioned" priest? Sometimes, if you are dealing with an old priest they seem to have a different view on things even though it is not what they mean. I have seen several older priests for example say getting a divorce is a sin (which you know that it is), and therefore you may not recieve communion. But then fail to explain that you can still attend mass, it is just a sin to recieve communion until your marriage is annulled, therefore making that parishoner feel like they are not welcome at mass. I have also seen older priests in this situation of gay marriage - tell someone "the act of being gay is a sin." which to anyone who does not know the faith, just hearing that "the act of being gay is a sin" would automatically make you think that god disagrees with being gay altogether and you are not welcome in his house, right? When that is not at all the case, and the priest failed to explain that being gay is not the sin, having sex outside of marriage is. It probably sounds a little confusing, but I hope you at least have some idea of what I am talking about.

Look, I'm not at all trying to shove religion down your throaght (and I know you never said anything about that), I just enjoy educating people on my faith when they don't know about certain aspects. I know no matter what I say, your opinion will never change, just like no matter what you say will change mine. I really do respect your belief, and I completely understand why you believe so strongly in this.

[deleted account]

Me too- and that's my answer to the OP's original question- No I dont think a change in the word would make a difference for me b/c I believe that EVERYONE is entitled to marry if they so wish; and I also believe that EVERYONE has the right to call their life commitment to another person a marriage.

Rosie - posted on 03/29/2010

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i don't see why everybody is so up in arms about whether or not to call it marriage. marriage is a legal conract between 2 people, in most states it's between a man and a woman, in my state it's not. this country used to have laws that black and white people couldn't marry, arguabley most people now a days would say that's crazy. soon all of this hubbub will be for nothing, and more states will be like mine, and gay marriage will be normal.

i just don't get how common law marriages are legal and why nobody is making a big stink about them being called married when they didn't even do ANYTHING that is needed to be legally married. but you want to know why i don't make a big stink? because love is love, and i could give a crap less about who does what with whom. god doesn't make the laws for this country, and the last time i checked most of the people who were against this wouldn't like it if you were subject to another religions laws. women are treated so great in the islamic culture. so why subject others to rules of your religion? there is such a thing as seperation of church and state in this country for a reason, and it is a blatent disregard for our constitution that this law is actually in place in most states.

[deleted account]

Anything less that legally letting two committed people marry each other if they choose to, is discrimination. Changing words leads to "separate but equal", type thinking which has obviously been proven as wrong when applies to other minority groups. Anything that gives less rights is wrong.

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