Someone please explain this to me! Why is Marriage and a Wedding seen as the same thing?

Bobbie - posted on 11/06/2012 ( 110 moms have responded )

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Yes, I am an older mom. My children are 30 and 26. My daughter, the oldest was told that she had a responsibility to do things in the right order. That to meet these responsibilities with character and self control meant a reward of a wedding. The cost to be spent on dress, cake, the whole nine yards. If however she chose to disregard these responsibilities to herself and skip the society order of dating, marriage, then setting up house, then adding children AS YOU CAN AFFORD THEM, then she forfeits all rights to tradition. She understood this and her husband and she did pay separate rent, Living on their own until their wedding day. There were no children born, no joint going into debt to buy furniture and play house. They were supporting themselves, not the big deal made out to be impossible by those who what to move in together. Some how it isn't seen as thumbing their noses at tradition to live with one man than another when it doesn't work out. Example: my son dated a "girl" not a woman, of 20 and she had moved in and moved out with three men already! When my son had real feelings for her he had to consider this past and he decided that was too much of a past for him to deal with. So I see where these young ladies get to where they are stuck with a boyfriend that won't marry them and they go from relationship to relationship, sprinkling children into the mix along the way.

Here is my question. Do you not see it as thumbing your nose at tradition to live together, have a baby and set up a house before marriage? If so why is it seen as a hurdle to having enough money to get married? A wedding is a tradition NOT a marriage.

I bring this up because there was a girl who asked if her boyfriend could adopt her baby from another man she messed with while they were on a so called break. They have four other children together, FOUR! and this last one bringing the total to FIVE and she still has never married. NOW she says she is ready to get married but can't afford it with five kids. To me that sounds like a stupid excuse. Just the price of one large pizza on the weekend is all the money needed to get married! $20 bucks! Walk into the courthouse and sign your name, say I DO and then start the marriage. Oh wait, there has been all the other aspects of a marriage going on while having the children and living together! The wedding was just a tradition!

Now, I had a young girl approach me to assist with her "wedding" she was 9 months pregnant and her boyfriend was serving over seas. Hell yes I helped her! She was not able to marry due to her husband to be LIVING UP TO HIS RESPONSIBILITIES. So that type of delay is not the same here. I wouldn't expect her to give up her wedding day when she waited at home for him for three years, living separately when he came into the states and planning that traditional wedding to honor their faith in the church and be witnessed by God and their family. But at the reception one of her friends approached me and asked if I would help her "throw and wedding" she had two kids, this was the fourth guy she had lived with and neither one of the children were his. She didn't attend church and so I asked her if she wanted to be married in a church. She said, "Oh God No! I want to be married in a backyard or garden and have a beautiful reception". That is what make me sound off here. What she wanted was a party. To play princess at this party, eat drink and be merry. THAT IS NOT BEING MARRIED that is using tradition as an excuse to get gifts and dress up! blow money on a party that you should be applying to your future. Oh, and asking parents to foot the bill or even help with costs is ridiculous. They shouldn't have to keep up their end of tradition and responsibilities when you didn't keep yours. After they have bounced your baby on their need and paid to help you make ends meet with your little bundle the last thing money should go for is to celebrate your doing it backassward.

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Lacye - posted on 11/07/2012

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I am so going to be flagged on this one but I don't care.



Who the hell are you to tell another person what a wedding should be? What gives you the right to be the wedding police and tell other people what they should or should not being doing!?!



No I was not married to my daughter's father when she was born. As a matter of fact, he and I had been together for only 2 months when I got pregnant. Yes we lived together during my pregnancy and afterwards but guess what WE ARE NOW HAPPILY MARRIED. Could we afford to have the wedding, no, because unlike some people, I had to pay for it on my own without mommy and daddy's help! So hubby and I are going to wait for our 10th anniversary to have our official wedding.



As for your question, hell no it's not "thumbing our nose at tradition". It's like this, shit happens! I for one was not going to marry a man until I was damn sure I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him because I do have a respect for marriage. It's "til death do you part" not "til I find another piece of ass". Does that mean if things didn't work out between hubby and I before we got married would I live with another man, that would depend on the man! You are judging all single parents on the one female that your son hooked up with. Well guess what, they are not all like that!



Oh and one last thing, just because a woman chose to not have her wedding at a church and instead of having it in a backyard does not mean she is just wanting to have a fucking party. It means she doesn't want to have her wedding in a fucking church for one reason or another.

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 11/07/2012

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Wow. This is almost as bad as my father refusing to acknowledge (for 15 years) my marriage because my husband had not "asked his permission" before asking me to marry him! Now, you tell me, what right did my father have to assume that I was chattel? Because last I checked, I became an adult at the age of 18, well able to make my own decisions.



FYI: I'm 42, and my kids are 18 & 15 now, so not a youngster either. I am the product of divorce. My parents were forced to marry because of narrowminded views like yours. Because, obviously, everyone who sleeps together should be married, right? Also FYI: Before I met my husband (now of 23 years), I lived with my (then) fiancee for 3 years. Like Little Miss said, it's a "trial period". And it was a darn good thing I had that trial period to find out about the narcissistic, controlling asshole that I was engaged to! Had I married him, I'd just be extending the pattern of divorce.



I also lived with my husband prior to marriage. We thought I was pregnant, so we POSTPONED the wedding until we were sure. The reason? If we couldn't live with each other thru a pregnancy, we weren't going to inflict a divorce on a child. Needless to say, I wasn't pregnant, but it was sound logic.



My brother was forced to marry his girlfriend because of a pregnancy. They married 18 years ago, and divorced 6 years ago. Why? Because they shouldn't have been married in the first place.



So, I must ask, since you're so mired in "tradition"...WHAT DOWRY DID YOU RECEIVE FOR YOUR DAUGHTER? After all, she's a piece of property (traditionally) to be sold to the highest bidder (or the farmer with the best sow, depending on your area) Did you actually turn your son's girlfriend away because she was loose, or did you turn her away because her dowry was too high for you?



Honestly, to say that you offered your daughter a wedding as a reward for fulfilling her responsibilities...is totally ridiculous. See, a wedding ISN'T a reward. It's a celebration of a relationship. Celebration implies dressing up, being a princess for a day, and receiving gifts.



THE WEDDING IS SIMPLY A CEREMONY. THE RELIGIOUS OBLIGATION COMES FROM HAVING A PASTOR OR PRIEST CONSECRATE YOUR UNION. THE MARRIAGE IS THE COVENANT THAT BOTH PARTIES ENTER INTO.



NONE of those things are a "reward" for being responsible.



And, to top it off...I didn't get married in a church either! Oh, gasp! I got married in a DANCEHALL!!! With an attached bar!!! And God didn't send down lightning bolts or anything! LOL...And my husband and I paid for it ourselves. Because it was OUR choice to marry, OUR choice to hold a ceremony, and OUR friends that supported us. My parents had nothing to do with it.



I would say that someone had a rough day, and felt the need to vent. Why the tirade? I'd have probably agreed with a few of your points, if you didn't sound like a petulant teenager wanting everything her way.



One last thing I'd like to point out: A marriage is a covenant between two people. Sometimes, depending on views, it is a covenant between two people and their God. It is NOT something to be taken lightly. Most people who have lived with their spouses prior to exchanging vows have had a very good reason for doing so, and have also had longer, happier relationships as a result. I know I have! Happily (yes, still) married for 23 years and counting. Still very much IN LOVE with my husband. And guess what? My parents are STILL torqued off about it. I think it's jealousy, personally...

~♥Little Miss - posted on 11/07/2012

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WOWZA! Aren't you the high and mighty judgmental one.



First of all, if my kids need help with a wedding, I will do the best that I can financially to help them. I am not going to set rules upon them, and if they break one of the rules, not help them. How completely rude. You children are adults and they can make their own choices without threats of abandonment from their mother. It sounds to me like you want to control your children and others.



I am not sure why these other girls are coming to you and asking you to foot the bill for their weddings. That is just peculiar. But if you are willing to help young couples get married, you judging them in the process is very rude. You can help whomever you would like, but for you to come in here and rant about how awful people are for living with one another before marriage is unbelievable. Many people make poor choices in life. But for them, those choices made sense to them at the time.



Quite frankly, I believe in living with someone before marriage. This way, you get to know one another on an intimate level, learning each others behaviors, and you can see if you really want to spend the rest of your life with them. Call it a test run if you like.



I just cannot believe how judgmental and controlling this whole post is.

Jodi - posted on 11/07/2012

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Yeah, I must admit, I *am* a little offended that this whole idea of the wedding in a church being the only one that counts, because otherwise it is just an excuse for a party and gifts. That's kind of narrow minded and just a little judgemental.

Rebecca - posted on 11/11/2012

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Well I have to say my Husband and I agree with you if our children are to want us to pay for their wedding then they need to do it the "right way" if they just want a party to celebrate that they have been living in sin for 2 years then they are on their own. If however it is a shotgun wedding then we would of course help them out to make it right after all people do make mistakes.



as for those who say they believe in living together first any study I have ever seen as stated that actually decreases your chances of a successful marriage because then there is the idea that if it doesnt work you can just leave rather then you need to make it work.



Bobbie Hodges I hope you enjoy this article as much as I did http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/1...

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Crystal - posted on 12/03/2012

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Bobby, I think the reason so many of us misunderstood what you meant was for a few reasons:



1) you came off as ranting, specifically about unmarried women who have 1 or a few children from past relationships (made mistakes). Which many women have done but do not regret. So that in itself is likely to rub many women the wrong way. That and you mention women your son has dated who you obviously have a LOT of judgement against. You actually sound like a mother of a boyfriend I dated who forced him to break up with me or risk her not paying for his college. All because she passed judgement without knowing who I was... and boy was she wrong! So she had made some bad decisions and moved in with men she thoughts were worth her time, hard lessons life has for us all. Who knows what her home life was like... perhaps she had no choice but to be on her own at 20.



I did mention I moved in with mine when I was 21. Not a far cry from your 'girl' comment. Funny thing, I got a job and helped pay our way. Helped pay for car insurance and I didn't even have my license yet. How well did you really know that 'girl'?



2) again you seem to be confused about what a 'wedding' and 'marriage' means to many -different- women. To YOU it's under God, in a church, to many others it's the ceremony being held in front of and -for- family and friends to announce their life long commitment to each other. So essentially, we're arguing semantics. I bring that up because of your apparent contempt with a woman's choice to not be married in a church but in a backyard etc. See below, weddings were not 'invented' by Christians...



-I- understand that the 'marriage' is the day to day grind, the joys, trials and tribulations any couple meet in their strive to make a life and live their lives for each other and their family.



In MANY peoples minds, the LEGAL aspect, ie; going to city hall and signing a paper, being witnessed etc does not constitute being married, except in the eyes of the government. In fact, the 'contract/union/marriage' ie legal part of it has EVERYTHING to do with religion traditionally!



The "party" regardless of size or location is a must in order to call their relationship a marriage, in hundreds of thousands of minds a church ceremony is not 'required'. That in itself is a tradition and a custom that is losing headway. Weddings, and ceremonies were not derived from the Christian faith. Most 'weddings' taken place before the rise of Christianity were 'hand binding' where no priest, minister or any cloaked holy man was required. It was the inception of Christianity and it's stranglehold on politics that made these unions honored only if performed by a holy man in the house of God etc.



Your post led me to believe women who've made bad choices do not deserve a nice wedding day because of their 'assbackwardness'. Personally, if someone has worked to make 'right' in their lives, found someone they are willing to spend the rest of their days with and raise their family with, they're deserving of a nice wedding. Should it be paid for by anyone but them, well that depends on whether their parents are capable and willing to help out with. If you made clear to your daughter that in order for her to expect any support from you to throw her a beautiful wedding she would have to play by your rules, and she didn't.. well whatever. You have every right to deny her that, but that's harsh. Especially in this day and age, and considering what you mentioned as her choices, not nearly as bad as it could have been. Sounds like a sensible young woman to me. There are no children... huh, not bad, they each paid their own rent, well that isn't how I run ship, what mine is yours and vise-verse, we are a TEAM regardless of a contract. No house... well who the shit wants to own a house these days?! Don't get me started on the waste that is buying 'property'. Talk to a financial adviser that isn't afraid to give you the facts before lining their pocket.



Anyway.. that's more than enough from me.



Re-read your post, look at all the stressed (capped) words and which -points- you decided to stress. Perhaps you'll see exactly why you rubbed so many the wrong way and gave us the wrong idea.



And just as an add, had my 'husband' and I waited to have a child until we were sure we could afford one, we wouldn't have the wonderful blessing that is our daughter. So who's to say your daughter or son for that matter -should- do things they way you want them to? Perhaps their cards are a little different than what you expect. Perhaps life will have it's way of throwing the 'plan' out the window.

Mazy - posted on 12/03/2012

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Ok, but what is so wrong with wanting the party part of it? My husband & I were strange in the fact that the reeption happened on our one year anniversary, but that was so that all the important people could come & we could save up the money. The party part was so romantic & a wonderful thing to look forward to & most women would agree.

Bobbie - posted on 12/03/2012

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Gee apparently I am the only person who read the actual words. I am not judging anyone, their choices, or their paths. Love little ones, and know that today the choice to have them comes without the traditional marriage licenses. Not an issue. That many live without getting married, and even more can't get married to the one they loved because the law doesn't permit it. I am not judging anyone!! I am just saying, a wedding, the celebration that takes months of preparation and lots of money isn't "Getting Married"

IF YOU CHOOSE TO GET MARRIED you can do it with who ever you want to attend at the court house with the Justice of the Peace. THE MARRIAGE is the license part, not the party.

[deleted account]

Well, I am Shanti ..I was raised in India and was arranged to marry. But Marriage and Wedding comes some how hand in hand BUT to love someone or to share life with someone has nothing to do with Marriage or Wedding

Marriage is a social union or legal contract between people called spouses that establishes rights and obligations between the spouses, between the spouses and their children, and between the spouses and their in-laws.

Wedding is is the ceremony in which two people are united in marriage or a similar institution.

So if one needs a contract " marraige or wedding" then it is no longer true love in my eyes.......

Well........... dont shoot me to the moon ............cus i see things in a bigger image and not the way I was taught to see..........

Srry girls..........if you dont like my answer ..........

Love,

Shanti

Crystal - posted on 11/28/2012

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Well I do agree on some things like the song says, First comes love than marriage than the baby in a baby carriage!!..I do think Its kind of sad how people dont take their vows or marriage seriously..I am a christian and got married less than a month ago and it wasnt at a church! I dont think we should judge other people tho and well we all make mistakes and learn from them! I just got married to the love of my life and I have two wonderful kids..One from a previous marriage when i was 17 and a lil girl from a boyfriend whom I was living with as you can tell I didnt do it the way I would have wished but I learned from my mistakes and Im now married to my husband but moved in with him 3 months before the wedding and we did not have sex during that time and I know that alot of judgemental people think we did. But I dont care because I know the truth and dont care what anyone thinks or says..But if my kids which are 9 and 5 would ever do things out of order,I wouldstill be more than happy to help with watever I could and be happy that she even wants to finally get married because I love them and we can not judge on how people choose to do things..I would just pray for my kids to do what I BELIEVE is the right thing.

Crystal - posted on 11/27/2012

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I'm a 30 year old woman with 1 daughter (bastard child) who is only now 2.5, as a result of my ongoing 13 year relationship with my BOYFRIEND! We have lived together since I was 21 and he 25. We dated for 4 years before moving in together. I personally think it's very important to live with a potential spouse before marrying them. You do not know a person, ever, but certainly not well enough to conclude you're compatible until you've lived with each other. Just the same, I feel it's important to have sex before marriage... learning what you yourself like and dislike, in full, in a significant other.



We do not believe in the sanctity of marriage and tend to see it as a money grab. Not just the industry of weddings, but in the governments eyes as well! It would cost me upwards of $300 in order to go to city hall and have witnesses sign a piece of paper that is somehow to signify our commitment to each other. We think it's all a crock of shit. I do -not- however look down on others fortunate enough to afford elaborate weddings or romantic and practical enough to dedicate themselves and save for a small ceremony.



I think it's a bit controlling and intrusive to put rules and limits on your adult children in order to gain your support in their decisions. But that's just my opinion, and I have my own daughter that will not fall victim to that sort of behaviour.



And btw- 'Marriage' in your eyes is under god.. Marriage in millions of other peoples eyes is a commitment to one person til the end of their days. Marriage was not 'invented' by Christians. /smh So before you start preaching as to what a traditional wedding is supposed to mean, perhaps you should take into account the thousands of different women that read these posts and partake in discussions on this site. You come off as sounding, yes old and oldschool but also narrow minded and uneducated.

[deleted account]

Lol can we add hypocritical to the list? Just because the guy is serving in the armed forces doesn't mean he's not banging or shacking up with his girlfriend before marriage! As obviously seen by her pregnancy! They still did it backwards! But Shawn lively said it best.

Rachel - posted on 11/25/2012

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Haha this makes me laugh!! I'm 23, I live with my partner, we have two kids and own our own home. We have no debt apart from the mortgage and are financially stable. We don't feel like we have to get married just because someone else wants us to. You sound exactly like his mother lol. So according to you we are doing it "backassward" but hey we can't all live up YOUR expectations and it sounds like your children can't either. Get a life and stop meddling.

Sherri - posted on 11/25/2012

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Okay here is my take.



I think everyone should live together BEFORE marriage. Also although I only believe in getting married in a church and having a beautiful reception afterwards that isn't for everyone and that doesn't mean that getting married just because they wish to have an outdoor wedding and nice reception afterwards means they devalue their marriage vows than anyone else that gets married in a church.



Oh and too me getting married by a justice of the peace in a courthouse is NOT being married.



Sorry my parents still helped pay for parts of our wedding, we paid for the majority of it and our wedding was only $3,000 and was the most gorgeous Cinderella wedding you have ever seen. I have now been married for 15yrs and have 4 amazing children. 15, 14, 6 & 9mo's. We did keep up with the tradition and followed all my responsibilities. Just because you don't see it that way too bad.

Ken - posted on 11/24/2012

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Tradition runs deep to some. I noticed that Bobbie stated that her kids are 30 and 26. I don't know what age exactly that makes her, but I would guess she's probably around 50ish, give or take a few years. The purpose of my post isn't to guess her age, but to point out that she is from a different generation than her kids and their peers.



Thumbing your nose at tradition may seem the way to put it for someone from Bobbie's background and beliefs...but "tradition" is a matter of culture. Living together before marriage, having sex before marriage have become the "traditional" way to operate now in our American culture. The hard part for some is to recognize that and be okay with it.



There's nothing wrong with keeping your traditions, but others aren't necessarily bound by them.

Tamika - posted on 11/23/2012

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I agree. These days, you don't just learn to love the one you married. You marry the one you love, love the one you live with... I myself met my other half about 4.5 years ago. He moved in with me a year after we met; we spent most of the week together anyways. He had already expressed how he felt about me and his intent on our future. I had no problem living with him before getting married. There are things you go through before and during the time you live with someone that aid in building your relationship. Our communication has grown and our Love is stronger. I lived with my ex before him and Lord knows it would have been a mistake to go through with the marriage. I had given up hope until I met him. He means the world to me and I wouldn't change anything... And I'm not getting married in the church either. No disrespect to religion, just our choice.

Some people just need to mind their own business! Thou shalt not judge!

Erica - posted on 11/22/2012

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I am 26. I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old. A wedding is just a ceremony of marriage. You are setting ridiculous rules and are being overly judgemental. I don't blame your daughter. You don't have a vote in what she chooses to do.

Lisa - posted on 11/22/2012

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I don't see anywhere in the article that say's 'She was asked to pay for someone else' wedding'. The impression given here is she's some sort of 'planner' maybe?!



Quote: She said, "Oh God No! I want to be married in a backyard or garden and have a beautiful reception". That is what make me sound off here. What she wanted was a party. To play princess at this party, eat drink and be merry. THAT IS NOT BEING MARRIED that is using tradition as an excuse to get gifts and dress up! blow money on a party that you should be applying to your future. Oh, and asking parents to foot the bill or even help with costs is ridiculous. They shouldn't have to keep up their end of tradition and responsibilities when you didn't keep yours.

End of Quote.



I am sure it says there about "asking parents to foot the bill or help with costs."



This thread is a waste of time and energy, because all it's doing is making everyone irate instead of spending time helping the people that come to use this forum correctly!

Angie - posted on 11/21/2012

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When a parent decides to give their daughter a financial gift for her wedding, they need to be willing to do so without stipulations or strings attached. If a parent wants to give a gift, but then sets up rules about receiving that gift, then it is no longer a gift it has to be earned. Getting married has a very important tradition which involves leaving and cleaving. A bride should leave her family of orgin and create a new family with her husband. In order for this to happen a mother and daughter have to cut the apron strings, which involves letting go of control. This process should begin once the bride is engaged, but often times what happens is that the mother has a difficult time releasing control of her daughter. Usually the mother has a deep rooted fear of losing her baby girl, so as the wedding approaches, she clings on tighter and then conflicts come up about wedding planning. You will notice power struggles between mother and daughter regarding the guest list, location, wedding dress cost, table settings, ect. In the end it is all about letting go. If you don't let go, then your daughter will not be able to move fully into the woman she needs to be.

Karen - posted on 11/21/2012

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To Diane- I understand your point. However, your post brings me to my next question. Why are couples bringing children into the world that they cannot afford and haven't planned for? I understand that your sons job doesn't provide health insurance but I would think that having a child to care for would be a pretty big reason to plan to have a job with benefits before having a child. I don't know your sons circumstances and I am not judging him at all. Sometimes it just feels a bit unfair that my husband and I pay for insurance for ourselves and our five children. We are not rich by any stretch. We live modestly. I am a nurse in a high risk Ob/Gyn office and I see women EVERY day that are fine with letting everyone else pay for not only their care, but also the care of their unborn children. Many times, too many times, I will see these women back in the office year after year. Child after child. It is discouraging at times that there seems to be no accountability. Where does it end?

Diane - posted on 11/21/2012

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This one's easy for me to answer. My son lives with his S.O. and they have a baby. They are what you would consider right on the poverty line, so, were they to marry, they'd lose the baby's Medicare. Their jobs don't carry insurance, and even when you are insured, like me, you pay a boatload in drug and other costs. For one person in my state to get the cheapest insurance coverage it would be right around $8000.00 a year. So I have supported their decision, knowing I've had friends, yes even friends at church, who've taken out bankruptcy due to medical bills. If you wind up in the hospital for a month, and you have no insurance, they will haunt you until you cannot breathe. So this is the main reason I've seen in my area, and I see the moral issue as one of a grossly unfair healthcare system that not all can participate in. My husband is a teacher, and has seen hundreds of children who've never seen a dentist. Call and try to see a specialist without insurance sometime, and lemme know if you got in.

Mazy - posted on 11/20/2012

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I don't understand paying for someone's wedding if they AREN'T your daughter. I don't understand asking someone to pay for a wedding if it ISN'T your parent. Am I the only one finding this odd? What's the real gripe here; that she was asked to pay for a wedding or that it wasn't be done her way? Of course the poster has the right to not pay for the wedding no matter what her reasons are. But her way of going about telling the readers on COM that she disapproves & won't pay is not very nice & very judgemental. Or, this story isn't 100% & perhaps a bit trollish.

Samantha - posted on 11/20/2012

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yes holly she does. my husband and i got married before we had kids and still paid for it all on our own. it wasnt even thought of that someone else would pay. but she doesnt need to post on here about how she will pay for one couple living in sin but not another couple. i would say there is more to this story than what is being said as i cant really believe people would just come up to someone and ask them to pay for there wedding if they dont know them very very well

Mama-mia - posted on 11/20/2012

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Well bugger me I am 29 have 2 children and been with my partner for 15yrs now not even considering getting married, we have a home cars furniture bills get paid now why is it that people who are in a loving relationship need to prove it by getting married? Everyone has a opinion but quite frankly yours is so judgemental its pathetic. I have 2 sisters(older) that did it the so called way that you say is "PROPER" oh and well there marriages ended in divorce 1 has 2 children and on her own and the other has 3 children and there fathers were such wankers they now have nothing to do with the children....If only they lived with them first they might of found out they were the biggest pricks on this earth. Marriage changes a lot of people not for the better. Oh and by the way my mum is a older mum and is Catholic to and supports me and my decisions 100%as that is what parents do. I attend church with my children, partner my mum and dad(who been married 25 years been together 37 years) but I sure as heck ain't no sinner in the eyes of god,as I provide a LOVING, STABLE SAFE HOME for my children that is all he as. Times have changed so maybe you should come join us in the future not the past.

Barbara - posted on 11/20/2012

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Wedding is the event and marriage is a lifetime commitment. If I had a daughter and she turned 30 years old and was marrying for the first time I would help her out as much as I could no manner if she was living with me or living with her husband to be. My daughter is always my daughter is how I think. I do like tradition but if my daughter did not live by traditional ways, the bottom line is that I would still help her out as much as I could.

Holly - posted on 11/20/2012

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dawn, she said some girl from the party came and asked her to pay for hers as well: "Now, I had a young girl approach me to assist with her "wedding"" i don't know if you saw this.



that these girls were not her daughters

Dawn - posted on 11/20/2012

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Wow,,,, opened up a can of worms here methinks!

Personally, I can see where you are coming from on a couple of points, ie, date first, get engaged, plan wedding and have a marriage,but you are ranting madly about your daughter and not wanting to help because she chooses differently - hmmm..

I have been married twice.... made to get married the 1st time (not through pregnancy I might add) as both sets of parents would not tolerate us living together before marriage - this lasted 5 months..... I could have saved myself SO much grief and a costly divorce if we had been left to live together first. Second time, I had already learnt from my mistakes and whilst we had organised the wedding, we also moved in together for a short while beforehand ' to make sure' and this was great and we have now been married 26 years, 2 children.

Everyone has a right to choose the way they want to do it - it is a free world and if you are going to enforce your rules, then only you will get hurt if she chooses to cut you out of her life. If you enforce your rules and she does what you say and it doesn't work out then SHE will get hurt and you will not be thanked for it.

Holly - posted on 11/20/2012

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@ samantha yes we all have the right to live how you want, but you ALSO have the right to pay for it by yourself! or go mooch off your OWN family member!!! She "has the right" to refuse handing out her money, doesn't she?

Samantha - posted on 11/19/2012

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what i dont understand is that you say it was ok for the woman to have her dream wedding as her partner was overseas fulfilling his responsibilities and they didnt live together but she was 9 months pregnant. if they were keeping up tradition how is it acceptable to be having sex before marriage but not live together before marriage. your very hypocritical.

we all have a right to live how we want

Jo - posted on 11/19/2012

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@minklooping....You have been reported for this post....it is not appropriate to post an advertisement here.

Candy - posted on 11/19/2012

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Wow this is a serious post and you want to post about things for sale REALLY?

Candy - posted on 11/19/2012

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I am appalled at the level of judgement in this post. I too did it the right way and got married before living with my ex husband. Notice I said EX. While great when we were dating once married he became a controlling abusive man since I was now legally his in his mind. Had I lived with this man first I am sure he would not have been able to hide this behavior and I would never had to deal with a nasty divorce and years of abuse at his hands. Many people choose not to get married for their own reasons. If both husband and wife have a high income just the act of getting married could impose a marriage tax penalty doubling the amount of taxes they would pay if they remained single. Many women are choosing to have children with out a husband simple because they do not need a man to support them.

If this poster is a wedding planner I suggest they choose a different career. I can assure you if I heard a wedding planner state these thing I would tell everyone I knew not to use them.

I think it is sad that some parents tell their children that they must do things their way or they get nothing .



WOW Most parents raise their children to have a mind of their own and to think for themselves. Why is your way the right way? Because you said so. I wonder if you are the same type of person that believes that people should not get divorced either regardless of how unhappy they may be.



We live in a different world now. Women are stronger and more independent and no longer need a man to take care of them or define them. I think it is sad in this day and age that we are still judging others. The sooner we learn that everyone, men and women have a right to their own choices the happier we will be when we lay our heads down to sleep at night.

Holly - posted on 11/19/2012

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It's her money, she could decide not o help this random girl solely based on the fact that she didn't like her nose..... ITS HER DANG MONEY!

Ashley - posted on 11/19/2012

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Im not sure that marriage and a wedding and tradition are the issues here. I believe everyone has a right to there own beliefs, and there is nothing wrong with that. I do think it became a personal attack by posting it on a page were 95% of the woman here are young and were raised in a world to be your own person. Babies out of wedlock, sex and living together before marriage and so on has become the norm and very acceptable.



I am 27 years old. I started dating my now husband when I was 17, my parents moved away when I was 19 at the time my options were move with them or move in with my bf. I chose to move in with my bf. We loved each other and I couldn't think of leaving him. If we were to move in together after getting married, we prob would have married a lot sooner and killed each other. We are from completely diff backgrounds and it was hard getting used to eachothers different ways. We bought a house 2 years latter then got married. Our parents chipped in the cost because they wanted to help there children out and they believed our marriage was something they were proud of. Yes we married in a church. I do not think it was any more legit then anywhere else. It was just what I always dreamed our wedding would be. Then we had a big drunken " party" after. To celebrate us, as a couple in love who just got hitched.



We then went on to have our two beautiful children. I have heard shocked expretion that since we got married before we had children we did it the right way. I think I did it the way I could live with. My husband and I dont always get along, and I feel we would have been divorced if we got married before we lived together or even had sex. To me sex is important in a relationship and i would have much rather find out if we were sexually compatible before marriage then after.



All that being said. Everyone is different and has a different story to tell. The fact that i feel you are judging every woman on this forum who didn't do it the " right" way is to me a statement that you need to open your eyes look in the mirror and tell me who really is the happy one?

Romina - posted on 11/19/2012

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I am so surprised how many people are jumping down your throat. I am catholic and I believe there are reasons God wants us to abstain until marriage, not because he wants to infringe on our rights, or to control everything we do, but to steer us from ending up in situations where you have 5 children with 5 different men because lo and behold, none of them will marry you. I am 30, I lived at home until I got married, andf my husband is the only man I have been with. I didn't need to live with him before I got married, I actually used my head as well as my heart and I chose a man who is worthy as a husband and father, someone who shares my ideals and goals. I didn't get stuck with some guy because I got pregnant with his child. Maybe if more people thought like this lady we would have less children without fathers.

Patricia - posted on 11/19/2012

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the first thing parents of older children need to learn is kids have their own life. Also, your relationship with your child is key. I want to be part of my children's life. So, a big part of being a parent of 20 somethings + is listening. Kids make mistakes it happens. They are more likely to learn from mistakes if they are not being judged harshly.



Often the price of knowing what is proper and demanding others follow the rules is loss of an adult child. Who wants to love and spend time with a demanding shrew who constantly judges you.



Then within a framework of love and listening, enjoy your older kids and bite your tong a few times in the process. Within this framework, decisions happen in context - You may not approve but you love and communicate often.

Amatullah - posted on 11/19/2012

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@Bobbi



Depending on what state you are from a weddig license will cost you between $60 to $80, and the waiting period is about 1-3 days before you can have a judge, or anyone of your faith sign the certificate. Poof! You are officially man and wife. Now! The wedding party is what puts "most" people in bind after ther wedding, and can total up to thousands, thousands of dollars.





People you are missing the point! These people are coming to her/him and ASKING her/him to assist them with getting married.(Bobbi I take you must be financially well off if they are) In that case she/he has the RIGHT to be bias in this situation rather you agree with it or not. Now! Bobbi! You shouldn't put yourself out there as the go to person for every "woman" that wants to get married know to ask you.





As it relates to your own children I notice that you didn't place the same stipulations on your son that you did you daughter.



Either way you made an veral agreement with your daughter, and she followed all your rules if or when she wants to get married pay up.



As for your son..You should have applied the same rules to him as well.

Frances - posted on 11/19/2012

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I've been with my boyfriend for 3 years and 4 months, we have two children together the oldest is 3 years and 7months, yes we were not together when we had him but we are together now with another son and we are getting married next year and I wouldn't change anything its just how it happened, we are happy and in love and that's all that matters not which way you do things

[deleted account]

It's good to know there are still women in the world who believe in what's right. God bless you. Oh, and for the record... due to being poorly parented I did things bassackward, had two kids out of wedlock, and a long list of boyfriends and lovers. I hated my life. God answered the prayers of my heart though and gave me a Godly husband. We'll be married 3 years this coming June and never had the money for a "white wedding", we went to the court house with our best friends as witnesses. I wouldn't change it for the world.

Mikka - posted on 11/18/2012

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To be fair... there are some good points made amidst your rant. I will give you that. You ought to be a lot less judgmental about other people's views of proper tradition though. I am currently engaged to the father of my children, and probably would be unfairly looked at in the same way you are looking at these ladies - but as the saying goes, you should never judge a book by its cover. Weddings these days are nothing but glorified overpriced and over-advertised parties. It doesn't matter whether the ceremony takes place in a church or not, everything for the reception carries a 700% markup.



Taking that into consideration, as well some other very practical matters that today's modern society require any smart young couple consider, we sat down and made a decision together to do it backwards. We secured our family and our home - everything that was important for the life we plan to share before spending any frivolous money on a wedding that only makes the commitment between us legally binding (meaning it doesn't change how things are between us because we are already a dedicated family).



As for the part of who's money will be spent....... OUR OWN. We have been generously offered money from family to assist in making the day PERFECT, but we did not and will not ask anyone for help. And by waiting as long as we did we are easily able to have the small, intimate ceremony that is more about us, our family and our love than the "traditional" huge and extravagantly expensive party that most have.



So, hopefully that will give you some insight into your question of "why" people go about as they do. Times change, and sometimes the way in which people honor traditions has to change as well in order to do things responsibly and properly.

Melissa - posted on 11/18/2012

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I am in total shock of this woman's narrow minded attitude. In the year 2012... It's actually very sad to me. Judging people is very sad, who is to say what choices are right or wrong? My parents lived separately, didn't have sex until the wedding night, divorced when I was 3 years old. I am now 44, and that divorce has affected me until this day(still have issues with them). I on the other hand, lived with my boyfriend for four years before we were married. Yes, we played house and it was fun!!!! We have been married for 16 years, we have four beautiful children and we are still going strong! How about them apples??????:)

Sara - posted on 11/18/2012

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I would just like to say that I am a single mom. I lived with my daughter's dad while I was pregnant and about a year after that. Had I gotten married because I got pregnant my daughters life and my life would be hell. I would be broke having to pay for a divorce. My parents thankfully have respected my decisions and have helped me when neccesary. They have been married for 37 years. They know that I want what they have and they expect that I would live with a man before I marry him. Keep in mind I would never bring a man to live in my home with my daughter and I unless I felt we were headed towards marriage. Do I need a wedding to prove that I want to be with a man for the rest of my life? No, but if I chose to have one I know that my parents would be there to support my decision and help out any way they could. Because they are my parents and love me unconditionally as parents should, even though I had a child before I was married.

D. - posted on 11/18/2012

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I agree with you re: not footing the bill if you're a traditionalist and are being asked to pay for something that goes against your moral fiber.



That being said, I think that you can still love and support someone who lives a life opposite of your belief system without having to contribute to it financially.

Tamala - posted on 11/18/2012

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Hey each to their own. I am now 41 and did the whole "traditional" thing. Had one child and it all went south!! Then met a lovely man, lived together, had a child, had a simple ceremony while on holiday with our immediate family, then a wedding celebration with friends when we got home. We have since had another little girl who is now four and we have been together for 10 years. So just because you do things the "right" way doesn't always make it "perfect".



As long as you are happy and your heart is in the right spot, then go for it. However, I do agree that those big expensive weddings don't make a marriage!



My sister also eloped with her boyfriend she had been living with and they have been together now for 18 years and have two children. So is that so wrong????

Maggie - posted on 11/18/2012

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You said " Now, I had a young girl approach me to assist with her "wedding" she was 9 months pregnant and her boyfriend was serving over seas. Hell yes I helped her! She was not able to marry due to her husband to be LIVING UP TO HIS RESPONSIBILITIES. So that type of delay is not the same here. I wouldn't expect her to give up her wedding day when she waited at home for him for three years, living separately when he came into the states and planning that traditional wedding to honor their faith in the church and be witnessed by God and their family." ...I am questioning how she got pregnant if the fiance was overseas, how she got pregnant if they were living seperately and saving themselves for marriage and why it is ok for her just because she is marrying a deployed military guy. You can't just judge one person and not another if their situations are basically the same. Either it is ok to be pregnant outside marriage or it isn't. Make up your mind.

Eve - posted on 11/18/2012

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My husband & I lived together as friends (in a share house) for 2.5 years before we got together as a couple. By your "rules" we should have moved out separately, which when paying rent on low income is not always an option, and buy all new furniture - only to have to sell at least half of it when we got married. Complete waste of time & loads of money if you ask me.



We got married on our 5th anniversary & we've been happily married ever since (2 kids - born in wedlock) - with no surprises - we know each other completely & our habits. I am an advocate for living together before marriage - you don't really know someone until you live with them. Having a series of dates doesn't tell you about their nasty habits, people are always on their best behaviour on a date.



Why do you believe that we are not entitled to a wedding? Weddings are not about tradition, they are about declaring your love for each other, your commitment to each other for life. And sharing this with your family & friends.



We paid for our own wedding, our parents offered to help. We told our guests that gifts were not expected or needed.



I understand that these are obviously deep seeded beliefs for you, but you seem to need to be more understanding that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. And that times change, we cannot stay doing that same things eternally, people evolve.



I think the fact that more people are moving away from "tradition" is great - it means that people are finally confident enough to do what makes them happy & follow their own beliefs (not just follow what other people are telling them they should do).



Tolerance not judgement.

[deleted account]

I found this post really offensive.



I have two children, one born before we were married, one after, both to my high school sweetheart several years after finishing school I may add.



I'm a big advocate of living together before marriage. We dated for 6mths, lived together a year, then got engaged, had our first daughter and married a year later.



Things were complicated when we started living together. We had to fit completely into each others lives, see bad habits and deal with finances. It took some getting used to and compromise on both sides but I can see why for a lot of couples living together shows that they cannot be married, its hard going.



My husband is the only man I've ever lived with so I've thankfully never had to go through it myself.



When we married our families were both really happy but we still paid for it ourselves. Family offered to pay for flowers or the photographer, and my Mum made my dress, but paid for our "party" ourselves.



This year we'll be attending four weddings, all for couples already living together, one couple who have a child, but I'm still so happy they want us to share their special day with them and the fact they live together won't take away from it in the slightest.



To me your views seem outdated, but their your beliefs and I wouldn't say you shouldn't have them, however posting them on here seems to serve no purpose other than to upset and aggravate women like me who in your opinion have done it wrong.



If your daughter married, as a virgin, then moved in with her husband, did it all properly, then he beat her and forced himself on her, would you permit her a divorce? Would she then need to always live alone and never remarry? Not all long marriages are happy ones.

Melissa - posted on 11/18/2012

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I think the wedding at my aunt's house was sooo special specially since my mom couldn't b there!! Just way more special!

Janie - posted on 11/18/2012

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Times have changed. Better or worse... they are different. We see so many more marriages ending in divorce and people having family units not getting married than before. Marriage just doesn't seem to be so much a priority anymore. That being said... anyone who wants to get married I will encourage. It doesn't matter where it happens... garden, beach, park, courthouse or church. A wedding is the party celebrating the marriage. The marriage is two people promisin their lives to each other forever. Live up the party, celebrate. The marriage itself is going to be hard work, it's nice to have that memory to look back to. Oh... and I was married at a park. The church was waaaaaaay to expensive, we simply could not afford it. A park was cheaper and I felt more intimate. People could come as they were from all walks of life and not feel odd being in a church.

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