Spanking

Ledetrice - posted on 07/02/2009

spanky only teaches your child that hitting someone gets the job done. adults and children respect authority. if you chlid doesn't see you as such then it is what it is. people should teach their children the communicate instead of hitting. this all leads to but not always fighting, shoting, killing, and prision. speak b4 you teach the wrong lesson.

Amanda - posted on 07/02/2009

Don't like or believe that anybody should spank their child but can understand why it can happen. I have been at the end of my tether and feel like spanking... or even just throwing my child across the room in frustration.. BUT I NEVER WOULD!! But I find even a slap on the hand has escalated the situation and mad everything worse. You end up with an even more angry resentful child with a worse tantrum then in the beginning. And even though it may feel good to spank, in the end i'd imagine you'd be full of guilt. I feel there are better ways to discipline a child such as taking their fav toy away or time out.

Amanda - posted on 07/02/2009

Don't like or believe that anybody should spank their child but can understand why it can happen. I have been at the end of my tether and feel like spanking... or even just throwing my child across the room in frustration.. BUT I NEVER WOULD!! But I find even a slap on the hand has escalated the situation and mad everything worse. You end up with an even more angry resentful child with a worse tantrum then in the beginning. And even though it may feel good to spank, in the end i'd imagine you'd be full of guilt. I feel there are better ways to discipline a child such as taking their fav toy away or time out.

Amanda - posted on 07/02/2009

Don't like or believe that anybody should spank their child but can understand why it can happen. I have been at the end of my tether and feel like spanking... or even just throwing my child across the room in frustration.. BUT I NEVER WOULD!! But I find even a slap on the hand has escalated the situation and mad everything worse. You end up with an even more angry resentful child with a worse tantrum then in the beginning. And even though it may feel good to spank, in the end i'd imagine you'd be full of guilt. I feel there are better ways to discipline a child such as taking their fav toy away or time out.

Kelli - posted on 07/02/2009

Quoting Jamie:

Quoting Kelli:

Quoting Kristi:

I was not only spanked but i was beatened being raised. If i had to choose one or the other I would much rather take a spanking anyday. I do spank my child but very rarely. My daughter is two and she is a very good two year old. I only spank my child if she does something drastic, like grabbing a knife from the dishwasher. I dont mind spanking my child but somehow the public here has a issue with that. If you catch your child stealing would you not spank them? but you have to drag them to the bathroom to do it and by the time you do that they dont know why you are spanking them. But there really is no other form of a discipline that you can use in public without someone being offended.

Just caught this one, and I think that the "public" as you called it is exactly the reason why parents just let their kids run wild in public places, people are so judgemental and quick to say that you're abusing your child that it makes parents afraid to spank their kids... you can not give a time out in the grocery store... how could you??? By the time you get your kid home the moment is gone and they've most likely forgotten what they did in the first place. Yes... I will admit, it is a bit uncomfortable for me when I step into the ladies room to find a mother spanking her child, but I would never ever condemn her for it... if she is a good enough parent to step up and discipline her child for doing something wrong, then more power to her!!

I give my two year old time outs in stores whenever the need arises.  I don't waiver just because it's not always easy.   I have my kid put two hands on the wall when there's no where to sit.

If that works for you then thats great... its creative, I like it, and will definetely keep it in mind. My thing is... I hate when parents don't do anything, they just ignore the behavior, that just irks the you know what outta me!

Jamie - posted on 07/02/2009

Quoting Kelli:

Quoting Kristi:

I was not only spanked but i was beatened being raised. If i had to choose one or the other I would much rather take a spanking anyday. I do spank my child but very rarely. My daughter is two and she is a very good two year old. I only spank my child if she does something drastic, like grabbing a knife from the dishwasher. I dont mind spanking my child but somehow the public here has a issue with that. If you catch your child stealing would you not spank them? but you have to drag them to the bathroom to do it and by the time you do that they dont know why you are spanking them. But there really is no other form of a discipline that you can use in public without someone being offended.

Just caught this one, and I think that the "public" as you called it is exactly the reason why parents just let their kids run wild in public places, people are so judgemental and quick to say that you're abusing your child that it makes parents afraid to spank their kids... you can not give a time out in the grocery store... how could you??? By the time you get your kid home the moment is gone and they've most likely forgotten what they did in the first place. Yes... I will admit, it is a bit uncomfortable for me when I step into the ladies room to find a mother spanking her child, but I would never ever condemn her for it... if she is a good enough parent to step up and discipline her child for doing something wrong, then more power to her!!

I give my two year old time outs in stores whenever the need arises.  I don't waiver just because it's not always easy.   I have my kid put two hands on the wall when there's no where to sit.

Kelli - posted on 07/02/2009

Quoting Kristi:

I was not only spanked but i was beatened being raised. If i had to choose one or the other I would much rather take a spanking anyday. I do spank my child but very rarely. My daughter is two and she is a very good two year old. I only spank my child if she does something drastic, like grabbing a knife from the dishwasher. I dont mind spanking my child but somehow the public here has a issue with that. If you catch your child stealing would you not spank them? but you have to drag them to the bathroom to do it and by the time you do that they dont know why you are spanking them. But there really is no other form of a discipline that you can use in public without someone being offended.

Just caught this one, and I think that the "public" as you called it is exactly the reason why parents just let their kids run wild in public places, people are so judgemental and quick to say that you're abusing your child that it makes parents afraid to spank their kids... you can not give a time out in the grocery store... how could you??? By the time you get your kid home the moment is gone and they've most likely forgotten what they did in the first place. Yes... I will admit, it is a bit uncomfortable for me when I step into the ladies room to find a mother spanking her child, but I would never ever condemn her for it... if she is a good enough parent to step up and discipline her child for doing something wrong, then more power to her!!

Kelli - posted on 07/02/2009

Wow, I'm actually amazed by some of the answers on here... I was spanked as a child, and as I only have 1 son and he's only 10 weeks old, I obviously don't spank my child at this time... however I do believe that there will be a time when he is old enough that I will. I believe that spanking at young age does teach children whats right and wrong, when its used the right way, for example, if my son were to run out into the street, i would spank him for it, its dangerous... I will also use the time out method, but sometimes the spanking is necessary to get your point across. I won't condemn anyone for not spanking, if thats the way you feel then thats fine... however I do believe a lot of parents today do not follow-through with their discipline and that is why you see so many out of control kids. I think that a lot of parents are too worried about looking like the "bad guy" to the kids, but that's what parents sometimes have to be.

Laura - posted on 07/02/2009

My siblings and I got spanked when we were little, and it didn't seem to have affected us. It was a sign of telling us what was wrong. I'm glad that we did get it. We only got Kids now a days get by with too much, and that is why you have young, young girls having babies, while they are still babies themselves. We were disciplined back in the day and now kids get by with sooooo much!!!! I hope and pray that my kids do not turn out that way. They are being raised to be respectful, and to have common sense. My kids have gotten spanked, but only, and ONLY when they really deserved it.

Salena - posted on 07/02/2009

Quoting Mallory:

I was spanked as a child and I learned very well that way. I think every child is different, my 16 mth old test me all day long. I've tried time out several times and it doesn't work, so then she gets a spanking. I don't spank her the first time, but after the 3rd time I tell her NO and she continues it, there has to be consequenes to her actions. Maybe when she gets a little older, she will understand time-out better and we can go that route, but for now spankings work best.

I also have a 16mo old.  And time outs for us have been effective- of course she tests her limits as she gets to know the world around her.

I am also a psychology major-  at this age (and for some time) she does not have a developed frontal-lobe (this is where right and wrong are decided).  For now, she will make decisions based solely on basic instincts, mostly emotional responses.  I don't want to pass judgement, because I don't know you- but the idea of hitting my baby makes me nauseous-  It is not up to me as to how you discipline your child, but in most states spanking such a young child would constatute abuse.  I recommend FOR EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM doing some research on time-outs and positive reinforcement- with a little time they are effective!

Salena - posted on 07/02/2009

Psychological studies show, that when given in a loving and compassionate manner (not while angry, without 'tools' and making sure the child understands why and they are still loved) does not cause emotional harm. However, there are more effective ways of punishment! My daughter is 16 months old and rarely has to be told "no" more then once- and rarely throws tantrums! I was spanked as a child and remember getting the belt as well- I was a TERROR as a teenager! Positive-reinforcement is the best tool for behavior modification!

Kristi - posted on 07/02/2009

I was not only spanked but i was beatened being raised. If i had to choose one or the other I would much rather take a spanking anyday. I do spank my child but very rarely. My daughter is two and she is a very good two year old. I only spank my child if she does something drastic, like grabbing a knife from the dishwasher. I dont mind spanking my child but somehow the public here has a issue with that. If you catch your child stealing would you not spank them? but you have to drag them to the bathroom to do it and by the time you do that they dont know why you are spanking them. But there really is no other form of a discipline that you can use in public without someone being offended.

Mallory - posted on 07/02/2009

I was spanked as a child and I learned very well that way. I think every child is different, my 16 mth old test me all day long. I've tried time out several times and it doesn't work, so then she gets a spanking. I don't spank her the first time, but after the 3rd time I tell her NO and she continues it, there has to be consequenes to her actions. Maybe when she gets a little older, she will understand time-out better and we can go that route, but for now spankings work best.

Suzanne - posted on 07/02/2009

I'm a bit confused by some of the repeated statements suggesting that Spanking = discipline. Spanking/hitting, is not synonymous with discipline!
Whatever method of teaching (which is what discipline is) one might decide to use when raising their children, suggesting that to spank/hit a child is the only way to raise disciplined children would simply be misinformation.
I'm not hear to pass judgment on anyone's preferences in raising their own children, but - in my opinion, this argument is simply not valid.
Most, if not all, professionals in the field of child development, strongly discourage Spanking/hitting as a form of discipline.
There have been numerous studies showing this practice to be far less effective then you may be convinced of. And I will also add; not at all free from harm.
I will post just one brief excerpt from ERIC (Education Resources Information Center). But, of course, Google works wonders too.

Ten Myths about spanking children
A brief narrative description of the journal article, document, or resource. One of a series of studies on corporal punishment of children, this paper argues that the reasons provided for the strong support of spanking are myths. Ten myths about spanking children are discussed by offering arguments that support the action and by quoting findings from studies that refute the arguments. The ten myths are: (1) spanking works better than other methods; (2) spanking is needed as a last resort; (3) spanking is harmless; (4) one or two instances will not cause damage; (5) parents cannot stop unless they get training in alternatives; (6) without spanking, children will be spoiled or run wild; (7) parents do it only rarely or only for serious problems; (8) parents stop spanking by the time a child is a teenager; (9) if parents do not spank, they will verbally abuse a child; and (10) it is unrealistic to expect parents never to spank. The paper notes that while some of these myths are about the effectiveness of spanking, others are about the harmlessness of spanking. The paper then suggests some of the reasons for the persistence of these two types of myths. The central reason for the first type of myth is "selective inattention," whereby people do not pay attention to or remember the times when spanking fails to work because doing so contradicts what they believe to be true. That is, people have a vested interest in believing that their parents were correct. This, in turn, raises the question why most Americans defend spanking, and several reasons are offered for it. The two important reasons for the second type of myth are that the harmful effects do not become visible right away and that only a small percentage of spanked children experience obviously harmful effects. The paper concludes by noting that although the principle of respect for minority rights and family privacy conflict with the principle that it is wrong to treat children in ways that might threaten their physical and mental health, there is enough evidence to seek an accommodation between our commitment to individual freedom and our commitment to the well-being of children and of society. Contains 30 references. (BAC)

Pauleena - posted on 07/02/2009

As children, my sister and I were spanked. Not as a last resort, either. We were given one warning... If that did not do it, it was mom's hand or a spoon. Never a belt. As an adult and mother, I also use spanking. I try the whole time out thing, and I have noticed one thing... Time outs so not work for my daughter!!! I see nothing wrong with spanking. You just need to know the difference between spanking and beating! I see nothing wrong with it, and I don't care who likes it or doesn't. You are the parent and have to discipline as you see fit.

Courtney - posted on 07/02/2009

I have two children with a third on the way. My son is 7 and for the most part is very mild-mannered and respectful. He has been spanked and will occassionally be spanked again with a wooden spoon. It is a rarity that it happens and my husband is the one who does it. My spankings aren't that effective. My daughter is 2 and is a willful child. She isn't crazy-out-of-control but she likes to test her limits much more than my son ever did. She gets spanked with the hand when she won't return to bed after being told multiple times or if she stands up in her seat and won't sit back down after being told multiple times. However, spanking is never the first choice of discipline. I also swat her hand if she keeps grabbing for something she isn't supposed to. We try very hard to talk to our children first about what they are doing wrong. Usually, that will work. If it doesn't, then we'll spank. I wasn't spanked but a couple times as a child. My mom didn't believe in it. My dad, however, always wanted to use spanking but my mom wouldn't allow it. I never thought I would use spanking but I understand that different kids respond to different disciplines. My son will usually shape up after a talking-to. Even as a toddler that was usually all that was necessary. My daughter responds better to spanking than she does to talking. In the end, it depends on what will work for your kids.

Michelle - posted on 07/02/2009

I was spanked as a child. I have spanked my children but only to a certain age and then I believe that spanking does not work and you have to take things away from them. I have 16 year old and a 9year old. The 16 year old has a car, cellphone and computer that gets taken away, my 9 year old has computer and tv taken away. I also believe there is a difference between spanking and beating. Spanking should be done on the bottom and no where else. Not the head or the back or any place. I believe that for some parents using time outs work best and for others it does not. It depends on the child. My oldest child was more well behaved then my youngest one is and I believe that she test the limits more also. I have well behaved children for the most part. But todays society is alot different then when I was a child. I grew up in the 70's and 80's and music and tv were different, I didnt have a cell phone or a computer or video games. I was spanked to a certain age and then I was grounded or lost priveliges with my friends or going out. I do not think that spanking damages a child when it is done in a proper way but if you spanking your child because they spilled milk on the table then you need help yourself. Kids will be kids and they go through different stages in life and you have to have the composure and patients to help them through it. You dont just spank a child because he does something wrong everytime, especially when they are older. They need to take the mistake they have made and learn a lesson from it. You have to try and put yourself back in thier shoes when you were that age....I grow as a parent every day and I hope that when I become a grandparent that I can take the mistakes that I made and pass them on to my children to help them grow to become a better parent themselves.

Lisa - posted on 07/02/2009

I have 5 children from 22 down to 2-5 year olds. I was spanked with a wooden spoon as a child. I told myself I would not do that. For the most part I didn’t, until, I took in a child. The one we have taken in as a foster child from a family member that was killed when she was 2. She dealt with a drug baron Mother and Father. My older children have only been spanked a few times not more than 5 times as they grew up. My 5 yr old, she has only gotten spanked a few times. She knows the look and doesn’t like being spanked at all. However, the one we brought in, that’s a whole new story. I have never had to spank so much. It has gotten to the point I don’t think it works any more. I have used my hand, a belt and now a paddle. She is oblivious to it all. I think she is ADHD. My husband says just let it go. It is all for the fact she wants attention. She back talks like she is 17, she gets things out of the kitchen without asking, eats the toothpaste and plays with herself. I don’t know what to do with her. She steals out of my room and doesn't listen to us when we tell her things. What do I do next?

Anita - posted on 07/02/2009

You know, I wish I didn't have to resort to violence with my children, but they just do not obey me at all! My husband says its because I am not strict enough and don't follow through with my "threats" ( not going outside if you dont do this, or im going to take away your toys, etc). I had to spank my children once. Now they know that I mean it when I say I am going to spank them. All I have to say is "do you want a whoopin?" and the answer is "no maam" and they discontinue doing what they were doing wrong. for the time being. I have a 2 year old and a 5 year old and the 2 year old thinks he can still run all over mommy. (I let him sometimes)

Jennifer - posted on 07/02/2009

I spank my children when they dont listen.. Good discipline is what makes good adults.. the people you see going around starting trouble, doing drugs, steeling, and being disrespectful are the ones who didn't have good discipline growing up. I hate to see children having a fit and rolling in the floor and the parents dont do anything... thats when they need to get up and spank there little butt... my kids are very good kids and thats all due to good discipline...

Renette - posted on 07/02/2009

I was spanked as a child. My single mother did an excellent job raising my sister and I. She's from the carribean and was very strict. As I kid I remember being really insulted and angry everytime I got spanked. Now that I'm a mom I don't like to spank my kids. It's easier to just take them away from what they're doing or threaten to spank them. My daughter has already figured out how to talk her way out of it.

Denise - posted on 07/02/2009

Has a child growing up i used to be spanked so many times its un believable. Maybe because i was a tom boy grew up with 4 brothers and im every where they go. but i spank my daughter on the butt or legs after 2-3 warning. Most times u see the danger they dont, but they want to continue doing whatever they r doing, or sometimes i let them get hurt a lttle then i say see i warned u but u dont listen, so who cant hear will feel, either with a spank or just get hurt doing the things we calling u from

Denise - posted on 07/02/2009

Has a child growing up i used to be spanked so many times its un believable. Maybe because i was a tom boy grew up with 4 brothers and im every where they go. but i spank my daughter on the butt or legs after 2-3 warning. Most times u see the danger they dont, but they want to continue doing whatever they r doing, or sometimes i let them get hurt a lttle then i say see i warned u but u dont listen, so who cant hear will feel, either with a spank or just get hurt doing the things we calling u from

Line - posted on 07/02/2009

Spanking is abusing children - you never, ever hit a child.



What dou you want to teach a child by spanking him or her, that they can have a go at their friend if they don't get their way? You can never teach a child anything if they are afraid of getting spanked, except that they will obey because they are afraid of recieving pain.



I can not understand what triggers a grown up person to actually talk themselves into believing it is ok to spank a little child. They are children, a grown up needs to set a good example and talk to the children, by all means lay down the law - but never by spanking them. It is just wrong.



I will never use physical punishment where children are involved.

Julie - posted on 07/02/2009

I was more than spanked. My mom used switches, wooden spoon, belt, or whatever was handy. I did spank, but only occasionally. I tried other options first.

Penny - posted on 07/02/2009

I was spanked as a child but i really had to of done something bad first. The bible says spare the rod spoil the child. I don't see anything wrong with it as long as you don't get carried away. There is a difference between spanking and beating. I got turned in to srs one time, neglect for letting my kids get in the street and abuse for spanking them for getting in the street so sometimes you can;t win or loose. It's up to you. I would rather see you get after your child then make an ass out of you in a public place.

Leah - posted on 07/02/2009

I was smacked when i was a child not very often and it was bare hand on the back of my legs is all ,I have 2 boys of my own i choose not to discipline them by smacking them i personally dont see the need to do it i put my children in time out and always follow through with anything i say .For me there are other ways of teaching children how to behave other than smacking them .Its not acceptable to hit your partner for example if they behave in a way or do something you dont like so why is it ok to hit a child?I also notice that quite often children that get smacked a lot are violent towards other children siblings etc and so how then do you explain to a child that you may smack them when they make you cross but they may not smack another child if they are angry.I believe all children should have rules and boundries but i just dont think i need to smack my children to teach them right from wrong and how to behave.This is just my opinion and choice and i realise most parents like myself are just doing whatever they think is best for their children

Courtney - posted on 07/02/2009

First of all, I believe in discipline. When my sisters and I were little, we got a spanking when we had done something really bad...and we never did it again. However, we were also disciplined by having things taken away, being grounded, and having time outs. They all worked as well. I don't think spanking your kids is wrong. I think punishing out of anger is, especially when you are spanking a child because you can really hurt them. What I do have a problem with, is other people disciplining my children. I believe it is my husband's and mine responsibility to discipline our children and no one elses. Just the thought of someone else laying a hand on my child makes me sick to my stomach. I feel if someone is watching my child and something happens or they get out of hand, they can put them in a time out or send them to their room and call me. I then, can take care of it as it is my responsibility as the child's mom.

Jamie - posted on 07/02/2009

I spanked my child. I swore I'd never do it. Now everytime her baby doll does something wrong she gets spanked. I don't like that association. I won't ever spank her again

Kristi - posted on 07/02/2009

i do spank my child but usually it a very rare occasion. the reason is that they need to know the consiquences of their actions.

Victoria - posted on 07/02/2009

I can count the number of times I was spanked on one hand. I also will say that usually it was when my parents were still angry so it was a lot harsher than it should have been. I do not like spanking as a form of discipline. I think it doesn't really do any good. I would rather take something away or put the child in the corner. In my opinion, spanking does nothing but promote fear of the parents. I never want my child to fear me. Also, I just don't think it's right. My sister spanks her child and screams at him often and that is how he interacts with others. He thinks it is ok to scream and hit. It's called observational learning. One day, spanking will be illegal and I think it should be.

Melissa - posted on 07/02/2009

I respect Moms who discipline with tough love... I raised 4 children & they turned into a Paramedic, a youth pastor & an EMT (in school to be a fireman)... & still working on my 4th who is 11 & darn near perfect... if I may say so! I spank for 2 reasons... when it is Important to make a point (like when the child could get hurt)... walking in to the steet, touching the stove, etc... and then for defiance... they don't tell mama NO... or I give them a swat on the butt... with an open hand when they're little. Each child was differant and discipline for each was unique, my first NEVER needed swats, my second, rarely and my 3rd... well, lets just say, he liked to push to find limits! My last, NEVER needs much, but I believe a good mix of love & discipline turns children into law abiding productive adults. They NEED to know that there are consequences to bad behavior, and these moms that let the children run the house, will regret it when their kids are bigger than them & have NO respect...

Shawnra Lea - posted on 07/02/2009

I was spanked. I don't necessarily disagree with this sort of discipline but I do think its outdated. I don't plan on spanking my daughter.

Shawnra Lea - posted on 07/02/2009

I was spanked. I don't necessarily disagree with this sort of discipline but I do think its outdated. I don't plan on spanking my daughter.

Rebecca - posted on 07/02/2009

Quoting Pat:

I was spanked and yes when my children were younger I did spank them.I don't care what people say a spanking is not gonna mar a childs life, but a beating will. There is a difference.

i agree with Pat, its not going to scare the child and there is a diffrence between spanking to disapline and ABUSE TO where they sustain marks ... but when the child gets older there are diffrent routes to take to disapline ones self and weather we go that way that is totally up to the parents... if for one have teens now and when they was smaller time out wasnt the answer... today tho i take privledes away and personal things like there xbox or what have they around for a week... that is becoming more useful now with them being older.

Michelle - posted on 07/02/2009

I was given hidings as a kid well into teenage hood... i have 3 boys i spank them, they are boys and boys need strickter dicipline, i refuse to raise brats, todays youth is a testament to lax dicipline...

Suzanne - posted on 07/02/2009

Hi Lisa, I can understand your frustration. I'm not sure of the age of your foster child, but you did mention that her mother had been drug baron. It sounds like there may be a good possibility that she was exposed to these drugs in utero? She may very well have some developmental/neurological issues as a result. Is this a possibility? If so, you may want to do some research on the results of pre-natal drug use. And possibly have her evaluated by a developmental pediatrician or neurologist?
If she is indeed in need of some intervention, it will lead you down the path of discovery on her behalf, and support for you and your family with regard to dealing with her behavior in the most positive way for her.
Best of luck to you, and your daughter.

Vicki - posted on 07/02/2009

Lisa, It sounds like you and your daughter are not a good match. Why did you take her in? It clearly is NOT working for either of you. I urge you to consider placing her in a family that has more resources to offer her. I too have a son with ADHD. He behaves beautifully, is at the top of his class academically, and has NEVER been spanked. You may want to check out some information about ADHD on this circle of moms site. There are many wise moms to learn from, and you'll find a whole other ballgame of parenting rules, that actullay works. Every child deserves a chance.

Lauren - posted on 07/02/2009

I don't think using a paddle and belt is gonna help!!!!!!! That's teaching her that hitting etc is the right thing to do when you get angry. Ok, she is badly behaved but she's doing bad things cos she wants attention. Maybe you could take her for days out or spend some time with her on her own and TALK.

Lisa - posted on 07/02/2009

I have 5 children from 22 down to 2-5 year olds. I was spanked with a wooden spoon as a child. I told myself I would not do that. For the most part I didn’t, until, I took in a child. The one we have taken in as a foster child from a family member that was killed when she was 2. She dealt with a drug baron Mother and Father. My older children have only been spanked a few times not more than 5 times as they grew up. My 5 yr old, she has only gotten spanked a few times. She knows the look and doesn’t like being spanked at all. However, the one we brought in, that’s a whole new story. I have never had to spank so much. It has gotten to the point I don’t think it works any more. I have used my hand, a belt and now a paddle. She is oblivious to it all. I think she is ADHD. My husband says just let it go. It is all for the fact she wants attention. She back talks like she is 17, she gets things out of the kitchen without asking, eats the toothpaste and plays with herself. I don’t know what to do with her. She steals out of my room and doesn't listen to us when we tell her things. What do I do next?

Jennifer - posted on 07/02/2009

My three, almost four year old loves to push me. I do use spanking I have tried other things such as time outs and taking things away. That just pushes it to the next level. She just doesnt respond to much other than a spanking.

Suzanne - posted on 07/02/2009

Hi Veronica, I had posted this comment to another thread yesterday, debating what constitutes abuse vs. spanking. That sentiment seems appropriate to this thread.

"Defining the difference between "spanking" and "abuse" is an essential clarification. And it would stand to reason that debating the possible merits of any type of intentional use of force, would be negated when it appears to cross the line of abuse. At such time; the harm to a child, more clearly seems to out way any possible perceived benefits. Your definition of what constitutes physical abuse in a child - seems quite reasonable, and very elaborate. But in my personal research, I have not been able to find such a clear definition, and I have looked far and wide. What I have found, are general statements, worded differently, but no clear distinction between"hitting" vs. "abusive hitting". The fact is that the term "hitting" is included in all of the definitions of physical abuse that I have stumbled across. And in my experience the idea of "abuse", is much more subjective then one might think.

In New York State, unless you leave "distinguishable bruising", or strike your child with an implement (such as a wooden spoon), you are allowed to hit your children at your discretion. This was confirmed to me by a social worker, from the office of CPS.

What I'm trying to express may seem insignificant to many, because most people feel perfectly capable of making that judgment on their own. They love their children, they felt loved by their parents, and are simply using a technique of discipline that they themselves were raised with successfully. I'm also not an expert at different cultural practices, but I would imagine that the use of physical discipline - in one form or another, has been a part of may different cultures throughout time. Acceptable practices are generally culturally based anyway. And what may resonate as abusive to us, may be an integral part of another cultures heritage, or rite of passage.

I personally have never believed in the practice of corporal punishment in raising my own children. I simply find it to be a violation of a child's sense of personal integrity and autonomy. And contrary to the sentiments of some, I believe that it creates anger, confusion, and resentment in children. I believe that children are acutely aware of this violation on a very deep level, and are tormented by the confusion. I simply don't believe in violence, I would never attempt to use violence to achieve change in another, so, it would stand to reason - that I would never use this technique with my children. With that said, this is only my belief structure, I am not casting any judgment on different modes of thought.

The reason for my contribution to this debate, is because of the subjective nature of what constitutes "abuse" in each of our hearts, and in our culture. And further, how blurred the line between "abuse" and "acceptable behavior" can become, given different peoples orientation.

I was 39 years old, when my partner and I began discussing having a child. I had already raised my first daughter. She was 21 years old at the time, and in collage. Although I never thought it was in my future, My partner wanted children. I had loved being a Mom, so we began discussing our beliefs, concerns, and preferences. Given my strong preference against the practice spanking, it was, of course, a major topic of discussion instigated by me. It would have been a deal breaker - had he felt differently, and he knew it. He had said to me at the time; "I don't believe in spanking either, we won't have any problems there."

My daughter was around 14 months old, the first time her Father struck her. She toddled up to him one day, attempting to get his attention. He was sleeping on the living room floor at the time. She startled him from his sleep, and his reaction was to slap her across the face. She fell to the floor, landing on her bottom. Startled and afraid, she began to weep. The slap was not too terribly hard, it left no lasting mark, but horror overtook my very soul on that day.

He claimed that his reaction was unintentional, that he was not fully awake, and shouldn't be blamed for something that he had no control over. His explanation seemed plausible, and certainly forgivable at the time. Unfortunately, this incident proved to be the beginning of a pattern of behavior, which I had never been privy to before. Sadly, I was also soon to become aware of where his violent tendencies arose, when Grammy (his Mother) began proclaiming that I should "just hit her" in the middle of one of her meltdowns. I knew this family all of my life, but I had no idea.

He did not begin to "beat" our daughter. There were never any bruises, he never used implements, but a pervasive pattern of - lets say; "physical persuasion" for a lack of a better term had taken form.

As discussions on the topic, became heated conflict between him and I, his newly proclaimed "belief structure" began to crystallize. He claimed that he didn't believe in "spanking". That "spanking" was presumptuous. That he "hit" - and he would have never agreed not to "hit". He claimed that; children learn from cause and effect, and If a child touches a hot stove - and it hurts them, then they will learn not to touch the hot stove. This soon became the basis for his treatment of our daughter. Whatever the reason, based on cause and effect - physical intervention became an appropriate response according to his theory. This left the playing field wide open for him, there was no formal structure to his discipline, no rules. But always, Just never enough - by definition, to clearly be viewed as abuse. He would push her, shove her. I would catch him squeezing her hand, wrist or leg until she would cry. He would pinch her, on two occasions he even bit her, and yes, he would hit her. A slap here and there, where ever his hand would land. Just enough to hurt, but any marks would quickly fade, at least on the outside.

Our daughter was so very young when she first felt the sting of his hand against her skin. She was also at a disadvantage, she was on the autistic spectrum, and her level of awareness made it more difficult for her to understand her Father's behavior. But with each and every shove, pinch, or slap, she would weep, as if it was the first time.

Children become imprinted at a very young age, and the majority will tend to repeat patterns. He seemed incapable of feeling her pain, he seemed as numb striking her, as he must have became when he was struck as a child. His treatment of our daughter was completely acceptable in his opinion. And by definition, at least in our State, not abuse. His opinion was that I had an "allergic reaction to violence."

We all have our own sense about when something begins to feel abusive, but our threshold is generally set according to our own life experiences. What is considered abusive, is always based on cultural norms, and trends. It has been from the beginning of time as we know it.

When you engage in violence, defining when it is "bad" or "good" is not only subjective, but maybe even a contradiction. Can violence ever be "good"?

Or, at best; can you only hope for a favorable outcome, from something inherently hurtful?"

Cynthia - posted on 07/02/2009

I don't really remember being spanked, but I am sure I was a few times. I don't think you should spank children for what they do wrong. It just makes them think they can hit other people or you make them scared to do anything. I know where I live it is illegal to spank your children, though I know people still do it. It is just not the best way to deal with childrens behaviour. Time-outs or groundings work a lot better. Remember, every little thing makes up what your child is going to be like when they are older.

Katie - posted on 07/02/2009

Quoting Amy:

Quoting Jennifer:

Quoting Amy:

I believe that not every child is the same, which means what one parent uses to discipline their child, may not work for others. There is a difference in a spanking for discipline, and a beating just because you're annoyed. I've known children who don't respond at all to time outs or favorites being taken away, just as I know some children don't respond at all to spanking. You have to find a method that works best for you and your child, so as not to become an idiot on the Maury show crying about your unruly child.

so let me pose a hypothetical scenerio to you... lets say you've used both spanking and time-outs, priveledges taken away or whatever other means of discipline and "NONE" have worked... you would simply give up on the child and say "ive tried everything, this child is simply unruly"?

the reason i ask this is b/c there is no such thing as a "bad" child... a child is never born bad... we may simply not be disciplining them correctly as the parent... and i dont mean by the means of discipline... it could be a number of underlying factors: behavioural disorders, tramatic experiences, inconsistancy, problems at school etc etc etc. it is ur job as the parent to get to the bottom of 'unruly' behaviour and to simply say the "time-outs" just aren't working is not getting to the bottom of "why" they aren't working... could they be due to how you execute them? could it be due to lack of parental consistancy? could my child be having other issues or additional pressures in his life right now? when a time-out isn't working that is ur time to sit down and be an objective parent...

Look here miss anti-spanking I'm better than you because I would never do it. I personally don't have to spank my child, he responds well to time out, but I understand the necessity of spanking for some parents. I'm not saying that spanking is an ultimate answer niether is time out. The whole point of "finding out what works best for you and your situation" which includes seeking help if nothing is working. Most doctors give wonderful resources to these things. Not one persons way is ultimately the best for every child. I was spanked a small handful of times as a child, and as I said there is a difference to spanking and beating. It is your responsibility to be a PARENT period! Which means do what works best for your child. Just because a parent spanks, does not mean that they are abusive or short tempered or trying to rule out of fear. It has been a method of disipline since way before our times and I can only assume will continue to be a method of disipline for years to come. So try getting off of your high horse fo five minutes and just realize, that you have not had the ability to live everyone else's lives to see why they chose what they chose and why it works for them. You are not all knowing and niether am I. Just because you load yourself up with literature and various forms of information, does not give you the knowledge to pick and choose what is best.

I agree 100% with Jennifer and her opinons. I also respect the fact that she does " load herself up with literature and various forms of infromation"...thats more than many mothers on this site and its unfair to assume she does not have the knowledge to pick and choose what is best. 

I was spanked as a child and I can say it really didn't ever do anything productive for our family. I was scared to get spanked after doing something wrong, but that never stopped me from doing the wrong in the first place. 

In my opinon, there is NO NECESSITY to spanking a child whether this form of dicipline has been around for years or not. Hitting children in schools was used as a form of dicipline for years, but for some reason its not ok for someone else to hit your child, but it is ok for you to hit your child? LAME

People should take the time to figure out what works for their child, but this should NEVER EVER include hitting/smacking/spanking to any degree...especially out of anger. 

How can anyone look at their child and actually cause physical pain to their little bodies....even if it hurts for only 2 minutes.

I can PROUDLY say I am joining Jennifer on her high horse and hope that others will come to their senses and STOP SPANKING CHILDREN.

Pat - posted on 07/02/2009

Who wasn't spanked is the question. I think that we all were. I spanked my son one time when he was around 2 years old. I had tried everything else from time outs to removing activities, etc. and basically gave him one good smack on the bum. He listened that day, and then the mere threat of a spank on the bum after that, has worked until today. He is almost 9.

Meghan - posted on 07/02/2009

I am someone who dose not believe in spanking. I believe that there is many other ways to punish children without hitting. Everybody has their own way of parenting and that is fine, but for me I don't want my children to be afarid of me, you can not teach your child not to hit by tuning around and hitting them(as an example).

Kellee - posted on 07/02/2009

I was spanked as a child. I can count on one hand how many times I got spanked and it was always for something I *knew* was wrong. My mom didn't use it as a first line of discipline, but I find now that using the "it makes mommy sad when you.." type statements does more damage than the spanking. To this day I hate disappointing people, I hate letting people down, and I hate speaking my mind because I'm afraid of hurting people's feelings. I think the guilt trip is worse than a moment's discomfort.

That said, I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to spank your kids here. I don't like that on a few levels. First, I don't want the government telling me how to raise my child(ren). As long as I am using the spanking as a method of discipline and not abuse then it's actually MY business. Second, I was raised in church and was brought up with the saying "Spare the rod, spoil the child". In a place where they preach religious acceptance, how is it that spanking, when done from the Biblical standpoint, is not respected? Third, children in my generation that were spanked tended to be more respectful and thoughtful. Note I said spanked. Not beaten. There's a difference. Children today are more surly, more flippant, and have no regard for anything but themselves. Take away a privilege or a favored item and they don't really care because they'll get it back eventually.

Spanking and talking go hand in hand. If you talk to the child about the issue, lay the groundwork for the consequence (in this case spanking), and the child chooses to misbehave, then the parent must follow up on the consequence. There's people out there that will say that it just makes the child confused, unable to trust authority, sneaky, more likely to engage in risky behavior. I say that it's all in HOW spanking is used. I grew up fine.

Rosina - posted on 07/02/2009

I too was spanked! I do believe in it, however I'm not as quick to hit my own....it is used as a last resort. I think Parents today have a lot of guilt because of the 'Two parent working' issue and therefore do not spank their children.....I do think that giving in and over-pampering out of guilt is what's going wrong with our youth today!!!! Our young seem to think they are entitled and never wrong.....A generation of self-centered individuals. I work in a school and see a lot of this going on...

Tammy - posted on 07/02/2009

Quoting Lynn:

rod translated means switch

If your refering to the bible translation Moses carried a rod which he turned into a viper as well as held to part the red sea, he was a shepard and his shepards staff was the Rod he used not a switch.  S rod does not translate to switch.

Susan - posted on 07/02/2009

Yes I was spanked as a child, only when I did something really bad, the rest ws just getting grounded. Yes I did spank my kids when they needed it. But there is a big difference on spanking and beating your child! NEVER beat your kids, not only is it against the law but it would hurt the relationship you have with them and want to build with them. Spanking when they have done something very wrong and sitting down with them to explain why they were punished is the key.