Spanking can cause long term harm (just saying)

Kaye - posted on 08/16/2012

Crap! my siblings and myself were raised by parents who spanked us and I am neither aggressive, depressed or addicted to anything except my beautiful grandchildren, all 23 of whom are happy and good natured, thanks to all my children and their spouses, who also believe in spanking. They are respectful too and know boundaries unlike some children today who are 6 going on 36 and havent a clue about the real world.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/16/2012

@ Michelle "I am not sure why the husband analogy keeps coming up, my husband never disciplines me."



"In a marriage any of that behavior would be controlling and abusive."



"If a stranger tried to discipline my child I would be pissed too! Whether they smacked a hand or tried to pick my child up and put them in timeout."



That is the point, you don't want to be hit, and you don't want strangers hitting your kids. Hitting overall is just not right, so why is it ok to hit your own child that is not even half your size or weight, but you get to as a full grown adult hit someone so defenseless?

**Jackie** - posted on 02/16/2012

Shauna, thanks for the comic relief! lol

Debbie - posted on 02/15/2012

I was spanked constantly as a child. I would call it child abuse. Spanking is not for children. Children do what we teach them. So, if we teach them that hitting is ok, don't you think they're going to grow up doing the same. Children are precious and we should treat them that way. They're other methods of correcting your child. Time out, sit in a corner, or even take something away they truly like or enjoy. I know children needs disipline, but not abuse or even hitting.

Shauna - posted on 02/15/2012

I hope people don't think I'm serious...hahaha this convo is messed up.

Kate CP - posted on 02/15/2012

Okay, instead of your husband disciplining you how about your boss? Instead of writing you up for an infraction he swats your butt.

Michele - posted on 02/15/2012

I am not sure why the husband analogy keeps coming up, my husband never disciplines me. I would be as pissed if he started putting me on timeouts or taking away my possesions as if he started hitting me. In a marriage any of that behavior would be controlling and abusive. If a stranger tried to discipline my child I would be pissed too! Whether they smacked a hand or tried to pick my child up and put them in timeout. These situations don't pan out.

Shauna - posted on 02/15/2012

My husband spanks me all the time. I don't see a problem...

Shauna - posted on 02/15/2012

I'm just gonna spank myself!

Kate CP - posted on 02/15/2012

Lisa - posted on 02/15/2012

Thank you ladies. He is our only one, so we are trying our best!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

The whole point I was trying to make about "why is it ok for you to hit your kid, but if your husband does hit you for doing something wrong, why is it abuse and not hitting your kid"? I figure that is pretty self explanatory. Even an occasional smack from a husband would be considered abuse. But hitting your child that is not even half your weight is suppose to be ok. It is hypocritical. Would you let a stranger out in public hit your kid if they saw your child was stealing? Just a tap on the hand and saying "NO don't steal it is wrong" chances are not one of you would say that is ok. Heck, you might even call the cops and press charges.



Lisa, it sounds like you are doing a fantastic job with your son. Keep up the good work. But, if he is bi polar, it can also come with depression, so hitting may make it worse, even if it is occasional. That is all I am saying.

**Jackie** - posted on 02/15/2012

I'm praying for your little boy, Lisa! I hope it's just a phase! Good luck and stay strong no matter what the outcome!

Lisa - posted on 02/15/2012

I did not mention that I am skeptical about my son's diagnosis of BORDERLINE bi-polar. I AM looking into a second opinion as this is very important to us. I am pretty sure he is just up to typical 6 yr old behavior, but there are things that he has said that the dr considered unusual for his age. Because of this, we do not use spanking as a usual form of discipline. Even tho I was not asked I will tell. He is responsible for the following: picking up his toys, putting his dirty clothes in the hamper, emptying the recycle bin into the recycle dumpster, homework 4 nights a week, picking up his bathroom after a bath, putting away his clean laundry. He also helps wash the dinner dishes (at his request) and likes to help get dinner together. When I am housecleaning he likes to help with small things such as dusting. He was born with a genetic condition which required surgery at 3 mos of age to remove 2/3 of his colon. This in turn requires daily medication. Not to mention he was born 9 weeks early. So, he was dealt a crappy hand right from the start. He is responsible for taking his meds every day when mommy's phone alarm goes off. He receives praise and/or rewards for good behavior or for doing his chores. He hates having his toenails and fingernails cut. He was given a reward for each toenail and fingernail he let us cut without sitting and screaming. He earned all 20. Our issues are homework and taking meds. He will stand and pout or say no I don't want to do it. I get down on his level and let him know how important doing his homework is. I ALWAYS sit with him so that he has someone to help when he has questions. I explain to him how some people need medication to help their bodies work the way they should. No one likes taking medications, but do it because they know that it is needed. Most times he will do what he needs to do without the promise of some type of reward. I like to be able to surprise him that way. If he still refuses after talking to him, I just wait for a bit and then talk again. Sometimes we get to the point where he just downright refuses and nothing we say or do works. He is extremely well-behaved for other people and is very polite and behaves at school. We gave up on time-outs long ago because he would refuse to stay there or he would sit there and scream. Hmmm.....sometimes you just have to choose your battles. Taking away privileges or special toys is another thing we do. Spanking is NOT a daily thing and is used for the extreme case when nothing else works. Now, if that makes me a bad parent, then I am a bad parent. I love my son more than anything in the world and would die for him. My mom once told me I should be spanking him for everything he does wrong.Umm...no. THAT I don't go for. That's extreme. Maybe it worked when I was a kid, but I don't think it's the answer to every problem. Hopefully I have cleared the air as far as my opinion on spanking. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. Like I said before, no 2 kiddos are the same.

Maree - posted on 02/15/2012

For the people who reference the bible....maybe you should do EVERYTHING the bible says before you reference it....



I wonder how many of you have actually read the bible....do you realize that it isn't supposed to be taken literally ???



Do you really think that Adam and Eve took a bite of an apple?? Or did they just go and have sex??? Hmmmm..that's a hard one..



So...... get off birth control and start popping out babies every 12 months



Go to church every sunday



Don't EVER tell a lie....or pray for forgiveness if you do.



Get you ass into confession



I sure hope none of you have sex out of wedlock or gave birth to "bastard" children....you may just go to hell !!!!



Your bible reference is a cop out....it doesn't make you look any better for doing what you should know is wrong.



Don't hide behind the bible .

**Jackie** - posted on 02/15/2012

Julianne.....YES. You said what I have been trying to say. You literally just summed up by argument. AWESOME

Julianne - posted on 02/15/2012

You may not think its abuse, but your child might feel abused by it.

Kelina - posted on 02/15/2012

i find that after reading many of these posts I have something to thank you ladies for. This website, these debates, and your comments have made me a better, stronger more confident parent and given me so much information and knowledge it drives me nuts going to my moms group now. But even better, you've helped me get through some of the hardest moments in my life by forcing me to confront not only who I am and what I believe and defend it, occasionally causing me to change my opinions. However, you've given me the best thing I could ever ask for today. The reminder that no matter how frustrated I am, no matter how much they whine, or how stinky they smell, my kids are the most important things in my life. So i'm going to go play with them now! Thanks!

Kelina - posted on 02/15/2012

Lol Jackie I have to respond to you right now I'm halfway through page eight and you're absolutely right. Alot of us say it's a last resort and still advocate it. You're right. It is a harsh punishment I'd never say it wasn't. It's why I try to use it as little as possible. This is a hugley controversial topic though and it really upsets me to see parents who spank once in a blue moon being lumped in with parents who spank all the time or for every little thing. To be honest I'd prefer not to have to use it. But I also know my limits as a parent. It's effective, is not really going to hurt my kids in the long run if used once in a while and is far less scary and permanently damaging than me really truly losing my temper and yelling and screaming or hurting them even worse because I feel like a failure as a parent. To me asking if it's right to spank a child is too precisional a question when there's so many factors involved including age of the child, usual discipline methods, why they're getting spanked and how often. There's also a fine line between spanking and abuse and that's the reason we have laws about it. Because many parents have turned spanking into abuse. Broken bones, bruises, using things to spank with, and allowing their tempers to take them over, which can lead to spanking harder than they think they are and actually hurting a child, and move to other places on the body. Actually I'd like to ask a question-what's the first thing everyone thinks of when they think of a spank? The first thing that jumps to my mind is my dad hitting me harder and harder because I was screaming. To him, I'm sure that that was a spank because it was on my butt. that's not right. It's never ok to hit a child like that. It's also not how I spank. Or i'm sure how many people spank. The definition of a disciplinary spank will vary from person to person. Which is why asking if it's right or ok is a difficult question to answer. there are a lot of degrees of spanking which people who spank would never agree with. And other people who spank would argue is ineffective. Again, reasons why studies like this get me up in arms :)

Michelle - posted on 02/15/2012

julianne, I'm sorry that you were abused as a child but one spank on the bum isn't abuse. I'm glad to clear that up for you yes I'm being sarcastic seems to work for you.

Kelina - posted on 02/15/2012

Because my child is not my equal. They're not responsible at the moment for moldng someone and teaching them about life and trying to shape someone into a productive adult while still loving them at the same time and teaching them that. Right now they're responsiblities are to love, grow, learn and play. And to be honest, that's childhood not life. I want my kids to have a childhood, and so I will not treat them like my equal, not treat them like my friend. I'm not going to tell them intimate details of my life or the feelings in my head, I'm not going to go out drinking with them, I'm not going to allow them to watch movies I don't think they're ready for but there are no rules out there for me like that. I can watch everything, go out and get drunk if I so choose, tell my best friend all about how I'm feeling(something I'd never do with my child btw, there are things they just don't need to be burdened with) and vote. They deserve love and will get respect when the time comes, and when they're grown and making their own decisions then I hope that I'll begin to see them as equals but for now they're not. Children don't think or feel things the same way adults do. It's why being a teenager is so hard because all of a sudden they're scope of emotions is changing, the things they have to handle in the world is becoming broader. Would I spank a teenager? nope. At that point I have to hope I've done my job and they know that they're going to have to handle the consequences of their actions. But my 3 year old doesn't understand the consequences that could come from pushing someone back right beside the road. And If i have to spank him to scare him out of it until he does then so be it. I'd rather have him scared than him or someone else dead.

Kelina - posted on 02/15/2012

Seriously?!?!?!?! Seriously! stupid fricken post button and share by meebo I didn't want to delete the entire freakin things I just wanted to cut out a line! Ok, now that that's out of my system lets try this again. Someone mentioned what if your hubby spanked you? I'll try to condense it this time cause I don't feel like typing what I typed again. I believe the actual question was if he spanked you for burning dinner or not cleaning the house. Personally, I'd leave him because if he can't eat burnt dinner, then he's a controlling ass who doesn't appreciate me. Now personally these things would correlate to my kids in the following ways-not cleaning up their toys exactly how I would do it, and not cleaning up their toys at all when asked. Don't know about you, but I wouldn't spank for these things. I'm not a control freak, and if they don't clean up their toys the once a day that I ask them to, then they don't get toys. That simple. They get thrown away instead. We also help our kids clean up their toys. However if I spanked my kids for that stuff I'd have to spank my husband cause he leaves far more dangerous stuff out like the exacto knife he left on my kids play kitchen the other day, or the bucket of toxic hard spray foam or the tools that constantly get left around our house. This is one of the reasons that I'm trying to say, you can't lump everyone who spanks into the same category. Some people who spank do it every time their kid does soemthing wrong which is ineffective. How are they going to know how to do it right if you don't teach them? They only going to know half a dozen different ways to do it wrong, and be afraid of their parents and of trying to do anything. There are parents who spank to great effect but every child is different and every parent knows their child. What works for your child may not work for mine. And while some have stated or rather implied that you can't raise a well behaved child without spanking it can be done. Some kids respond so well to other parenting methods. And some take major advantage of the fact that nothing else really seems to bother them. Go get bore in the corner for fives minutes you betcha mom I'm just going to watch this random movie in my mind. No phone for a week? no problem nobody calls me anyways. No play dates? that's nice I've got enough to do here. No tv? again, I can entertain myself in other ways. Extra chores? meh might as well, I got nothing better to do with my time. Sound like a difficult kid to discipline? I was one. Nothing my mom ever did was particularly unpleasant for me. I griped and complained the time she made me wash the dishes for a week but it really didn't bother me.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

Abuse can happen at any time....SMH.

Julianne - posted on 02/15/2012

Well Michelle, I guess since it wasn't daily all those bruises, stitches and broken bones are not considered abuse. After all, my mother was only doing it to discipline me..Thanks for clearing that up for me.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

Once again, (thought I was clear) the loud noise thing was a joke. And yes, i have a 5 year old (almost 6) that is starting to mouth off. Haven't hit him yet :)

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

WOWZA! Cannot handle a response much to much? Yes I was spanked, no I am not a bully....just responding. Yes, I blame my mom for spanking me, it was her choice to do it. I am a pretty much a very well rounded individual, and nope. I don't think i am a better parent because I chose not to spank, just different parenting styles. What I do love about this site, you never know who you will reach. Apparently this is to sensitive of a subject for the welcome page. I should have kept it in a debating community. And once again, I am responding to your comments, not picking fights. I am not the one who brought up the bullying. Oh, and I am sure you will come back to read my response. They always do. Whether or not you decide to respond back is another matter.

Jocelyn - posted on 02/15/2012

Okay...1. Didn't say that kids NEVER get spanked out of anger. The right way is to not do it out of anger. How it is done is up to the parents.

2. Maybe bullies were spanked BUT then EVERY child (because more than you think are spanked) would be a bully. Yet, my children and those around us are not, so...it's one thing to say that it can lead to that in certain kids and make the statement that it will happen.

3. Let's all blame our problems on our parents! No thank you!

4. Obviously you were spanked because you are bully and are just finding fights to start rather than discussing a topic as an adult!

Good luck to your parenting and hopefully you will never one day have a child in your face disrespecting you and find out that your loud noises (or other forms of trying to get their attention) have not worked!!!

Don't bother writing back...I won't be coming back!!!

Michelle - posted on 02/15/2012

I was spanked as a child. It was never done in a abusive way just one spank on the bum and not very often. The difference between a spank and phsyical abuse is that abuse is a thing that happens on a daily basis don't confuse the two because they are totally different. Yes unfortunately in this day and age we still have abusive parents and I support every tool we have that stops the abuse but the spanking I described isn't abusive. After reading all the posts I respect your right to your views but give all the other people who have disagreed the same respect and stop being judgemental because just you have the view that spanking is unacceptable doesn't mean that your a better mother, it just means that you have decided not to spank. Some of the post are just aggressive and stupid

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

Actually, plenty of people have asked for examples of other disipline techniques used by spankers. Guess you have not caught up yet.

Kelina - posted on 02/15/2012

Ok i'm going to address these as I see them because coming back to five pages of posts it's a little difficult to remember everything I'm seeing. First, not one single person that I can remember has asked anything about different methods of discipline on this thread to spankers and second I specifically remember advocating an occasional spank IN CONJUNCTION with other methods of parenting in the first post I made on the first page, so if you'd like an answer to that question, go ahead and ask. If not, I'm going to answer it anyways. I use positive parenting. I work hard to catch my kids doing things well and praise them for it and gently correct them and show them how to do things correctly if they don't. Like for example yesterday, I showed my daughter how to use gentle hands when dealing with the dog. she's not much of a hitter but she's a big ear puller and likes to sit on the dogs. When the times call for something stronger, she gets put on time out. Usually for not listening to me and staying out of my cupboards. Doesn't help that they have no doors. Or for playing in the giant bag of flour on my floor. We've been trying to find a better spot for it but it hasn't happened yet. If she won't calm down or is throwing a temper tantrum she gets put in her room and ignored until she's calmed down. Do any of those involve a spank yet? nope I don't think so. I do parent my kids in other ways. Including spanking in my parenting repertoire doesn't mean they automatically get spanked for every little thing. And I'm sure that that's true of many parents who spank. There'll be more to come I've still got another 4 pages of posts to read through and came home in a relatively bad mood. Oh, and btw, while I'm at it, someone explain to me how they could possibly get a totally completely pure study without actually having cameras in peoples homes and watching them 24/7. Because again, despite the fact I put that in all my posts that it's pretty much impossible to be able to believe the results of studies like these because PEOPLE LIE and forget, and every single person on this planet is different and reacts differently to different things, only one person so far has even mentioned one thing in my post about lumping everyone who spanks into one specific category. I'm at the bottom of page six.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

BTW I was being sarcastic about the loud noise. If spanking is strictly to capture ones attention, I was pointing out there are other ways rather than spanking.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

@ Jocelyn, you are kidding yourself if you think every mother that spanks never hits out of anger., I am sure every mom is going to pop up and say "no I never ever spank out of anger" yeah right. Many times spanking is a reaction, a reaction caused by emotion, emotion can turn into anger, especially when a child is disobeying and not listening. Also, have you ever met a bully? Did you bother ever going into his/her background and finding out what there home life was like? Cause, the meanest bullies I knew growing up were definitely spanked, or beaten.....and they SURELY beat up other kids. WOWZA!

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

Huh that is ironic you say your son is bi polar. So is my sister....she did not turn out great being spank. And your responces are a direct result of how I respond. So, you say "spanking is not hitting, that hitting is to cause intentional pain" I am going to point out that spanking is causing intentional pain, and is indeed hitting.

Jocelyn - posted on 02/15/2012

Spanking hurts. Words hurt. I think you can make an argument for both sides and it comes down to what works for you and what works for me.



Spanking is as a consequence not out of anger. When you hit someone your angry at them.



Make a loud noise...I'm not sure how that helps when you have a kid talking back. Again you can make the argument that you teach them to make a loud noise to get their attention. I have never heard of a kid who got spanked turns around and then is a bully or beats other kids! So...I guess it's an agree to disagree!

Lisa - posted on 02/15/2012

I'm pretty sure when I asked Miss Cant Be Wrong HER definition of spanking I wasn't asking for the DICTIONARY'S definition. To listen to some of you, a swat on the butt is like torturing them! I do not use spanking unless I absolutely need to because I do NOT want my son to be afraid of me like I was of my parents (yes, as a kid I was afraid b/c I got spanked a lot and not just with a hand). One swat is all it takes and that's all I give when it is needed. Parenting doesn't come with an instruction manual. Discipline takes different forms depending on the child. No 2 children are alike. I have used all the methods that have been mentioned here. My son was diagnosed borderline bi-polar. The dr was hesitant to go full on bi polar becuase he is only 6. Most times these methods work, sometimes not and we have to resort to something stronger.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

Megan, all of those things you have been through certainly shaped you into the person you are today. So, those things were nothing you could control....(except leaving an abusive relationship, which you did) so if you actually have the power to control the outcome of a situation ie spanking your kid, then maybe more parents should.

Julianne - posted on 02/15/2012

Everyone is entitled to basic human rights. When your views or customs takes away the rights of another human being, then its wrong. Children deserve to have their rights protected too!



I love your point views differ from person to person, so your child may see it as abuse when you do not.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 02/15/2012

My older BIL has DUI offenses and got his vehicle taken away. I have to find out what the Drunk driving laws are in BC or just drunk in general. I know random obscure laws in NY, NJ and TX.



I have to say that veiws on spanking and other physical punishment may differ also from culture to culture and person to person. Also what may differe is what is considered abuse. So in some cases we may just have to agree to dissagree because we're all different on here and what works for you may not work for me.

Julianne - posted on 02/15/2012

The bill is in the final stages actually. It just needs to be voted on.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 02/15/2012

Julianne, no one has ever died from a slap on their hand or their bum and spanking is NOT illegal in Canada yet. Come to think of it, BC is considering bringing back the death penalty. But that's an entirely different topic.

It's just not legal to use an impliment to spank someone. So it's not really a good analogy until you have 5 year old dies from being slapped on the hand on a news paper.





I know many people who don't spank are adament that all spankers should conform and believe that people who do spank only spank. This is why I hate these debates, non spankers seem to believe that spankers only do spankings and their kids are going to be seriously messed up. When this is usually far from the truth. Yes I've spanked and swatted my 7 year old, but as I've stated numerous other times in other debates like this one DH and I also do time outs and taking away things that she likes (not that she notices- she had her DVD player taken away for a week and I forgot to return it, she didn't notice until a month later) For my 11 month old it's always redirect or putting her down. Especially after she bites while nursing.



Emma, because there's a difference between swatting when the child is about to touch a hot stove and retaliation.

Stifler's - posted on 02/15/2012

Being under the influence and pushing a pram or riding a bike is a DUI offence here.

Krista - posted on 02/15/2012

I was talking about drunken walking actually. Which I'm fairly confident is still legal.

Stifler's - posted on 02/15/2012

I have no idea why it's apparently okay to use violence to punish your kid when you teach your kids not to hit others.

Julianne - posted on 02/15/2012

Spanking is in the process of becoming illegal in Canada, and is illegal in 33 countries. Drunk driving is still legal in 3 states and some countries..So its perfect comparison.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 02/15/2012

Krista, drinking and driving is a bit different from spanking or being spanked. How about we compair legal actions with other legal actions eh?

Michele - posted on 02/15/2012

Krista I understand what you are saying. My son knows that water and coffee are hot. He knows what hot means, he just feels the need to touch everything to make sure its hot. So yes he knows that the reason he got spanked is because he tried to touch a hot stove even after mommy said no hot. He just needs to get to the point where he will listen too me without testing for himself. I would rather he learned about hot from things that won't do any perment damage. I am glad that other things have worked for you.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 02/15/2012

Marina, that's why I said it depends on your personality. Shoot I could've also been a different person if I wasn't adopted, could've been breastfed, wasn't bullied in school and wasn't in an abusive relationship for 5 years.



I'm bi polar and I have ADD. I honestly only have one memorable physical discipline episode from a parent and that was when my mom smacked me for saying I didn't have to listen to her because she wasn't my real mom. But I believe I was harmed more from the abuse I suffered from my ex husband and from people at school than from my parents swatting me once in a while.



And by spanking I'm talking about just the palm of the hand. I believe also my parents knew what happened at school and didn't punish us as much as we may have deserved at times. Could you honestly do something to your child after knowing that your child's grade one teacher had been verbally and mentally abusive towards them?

Krista - posted on 02/15/2012

That's the thing. Sure, there are lots of people who were spanked who turned out just fine. And there are lots of people who walk home alone after a night out drinking, and nothing bad happens to them.



It doesn't mean that either action is advisable, though.



Not one person here is saying that being spanked is GUARANTEED to screw you up as an adult. But, like it or not, it DOES increase the odds.



So why risk it?

~♥Little Miss - posted on 02/15/2012

Megan, some people are not fine after being spanked. You are right, it does somewhat depend on the personality, frequency, AND severity. But many are effected negatively. You don't know for sure, you could be a different person if you were never spank. That is the bitch, you will never know. I know for sure I would have been better off if never spanked, or if my sisters were never spanked. I was abused by my sister because she was spanked/beaten. It goes down hill, she beat me and tortured me. She does indeed have mental illnesses, but maybe it never would have been triggered so severely if she was never hit....maybe I would have had a better child hood in that case. Who knows.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 02/15/2012

Krista, DH and I touch the stove ourselves and say, ow hot no touch to our 11 month old even when it's not on.



I have swatted my now 7 year old's hand away from an open flame on a gas stove while saying that's hot. I have also redirected her when she was younger and wanted to craw onto my parent's fireplace while we had a fire going.



Interesting information on spanking in Canada. It is legal between the ages of 2 and 13, but you can't do it with anything other than your hand.



Most people who do spank do use other methods of discipline besides spanking.



One method I WON'T try is what my MIL did when DH and his brothers were little. She used a spray bottle on them. It worked great until DH went for his first hair cut, the barber sprayed him with water and he shrieked 'No! I'll be good! I'll be good!'



In reguards to everyone who was spanked saying that they're fine being a myth is BS. I was spanked and so was my husband and a few friends of ours. We are fine. It depends more on your personality and how often.