Stay at home mums? or Working mums?

Adrienne - posted on 05/19/2009 ( 78 moms have responded )

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As a stay at home mum, have you ever felt looked down upon by working mums? as a working mum, have you ever felt that your efforts are not recognized by stay at home friends & neighbours? please disscuss.

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Marianne - posted on 05/21/2009

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I was very fortunate to have been introduced to an amazing company that allowed me to build my own home based business when my twins were 2 years old. They are now 4 and are just about finished with Pre-K. I am able to make my own work schedule and because of this, have never missed any of their school activities. Even more important to me is the fact that "Mommy" is always there for them when they are not feeling well. If anyone is interested in hearing about my venture, e-mail me.....I would love to share it with you! MOMS ROCK!!!!!

Carla - posted on 05/21/2009

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I have provided childcare in many different situations for many years and I've seen many things said and done by others childcare providers that I wouldn't be happy with, for my child. So, even as a single (divorced) parent I have been determined to be a full time mom and caregiver to my child. With much opposition, everyone surprisingly against my staying home, they fully expected me to have someone else raise my child apparently and expected me to work full time for earnings. I feel that women should help provide financially anyway they can but never at the expense of their children if it can be avoided at all. I believe it is the man's responsibility to provide for his family. Unfortunately, many men now do not meet their responsibility to their family. I feel it is my honor and my responsibility to teach my child how to be successful in every aspect of her life. It has been tricky but God has provided in one way or another and my daughter is now almost 3 1/2. It is not much money at all but people really tend to spend spend spend on things/services that could totally be avoided and is not necessary at all. I would rather watch my daughter write her first "A" than to get my pedicure or would rather see her first step of walking than to go tanning in the booth. Those are examples of how my priorities/my values have changed as a "Mom". If you can do both fantastic but if not that's where the priority is found. Because In my opinion, nothing is more important than raising my daughter and watching all of her firsts and really knowing her ways of communication and her capabilities her strengths her weaknesses etc. There are situations where people have to work outside of the home I understand that and I feel for them. As for women who want/choose to work instead of being with their children, I personally do not respect that decision at all. I suppose everyone has a right to their opinion but that does not mean I have to respect it. After I was able to figure out how to stay at home over the last 3 yrs I have had great support from friends and family for staying home now but in the beginning I was not verbally supported at all to be a stay at home mom. I saw then that the value of family has declined among some people and I think it's just awful. I don't think women should be pressured by people to go to work outside of the home and place their children in other peoples care. I also think if women must work outside of the home they should not be pressure to feel badly for it because of their particular situation. I find it very tragic that America does not pay mothers as they care for their children. In some other countries the mothers continue to receive their pay or at least a substantial portion of it up to the first year. I love America but in some ways we are still not where we should be in supporting the family unit especially the moms.

Tamara - posted on 05/21/2009

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I am a stay at home mom. But I am also very active in the Family Readiness Group. I also am a minister and I am studying to be an interior designer. The rewards of being a stay at home mom is you know where and what your kiddos are doing at all times. The girls and I have made plans to make outdoor games and stuff for this summer while their dad is gone over seas.

Tawny - posted on 05/21/2009

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Im a stay @ home mom, Im very grateful that my husband has a good job. Before our son was born my husband and I sat down and tried to figure out which way would be better. Where we live daycare is very expensive so if I went back to work my income would basically go towards daycare so we thought it was silly for me to go back to work.And yes we had to cut back on some things that we were used to. I thought it was great that I got to take care of my child. But I don't think that anyone should look down on a working mother or a stay @ home mother. There are some families out there that both parents have to work to pay the rent, mortgage, bills and etc. You have to do what is right for you and you family. And yes there are sometimes that I wish that I could have some hours alone to myself every day or be a little jealous of my hubby. It is great to have a wonderful husband that doesn't mind when I want to go do a ladies night or ladies getaway. Good luck to all working mothers and stay at home mothers!

Karen - posted on 05/21/2009

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Children need their moms at home. I think it is very healthy. It's a hard job sometimes, but rewarding. I will say moms that stay at home aren't appreciated enough.

Becky - posted on 05/21/2009

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Quoting Adrienne:

Becky .Do you think it,s NOT ok to stay at home, WHY?? Do you think maybe some mums are mums because the state DOES pay??? Am requesting a little explanation plz.


i dont think women get pregnant just so the state can pay for them, or at least i hope not. i dont think its wrong for mums to stay at home and look after their kids, of course not, if you can afford it is all im saying.



i know a few mums who have kids and are quite happy living on benefits. i PERSONNALY wouldt like that. as i said in my last post it depends on the parent and the child. for our family staying at home wasnt an option. we both work 30 hours and that is just aboout getting us thru.

Carol - posted on 05/21/2009

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Adrienne

I am with you. I know I am doing right at a SAHM. it is the best start for my little one.

But there are times when I feel I would like to be a working mum. I have actually just given up trying to be a working mum after going back to work in Sept following maternity leave with my 3rd child. I thought i could do it all as i had been a single working mum to the older 2 children. When i did return to work with a toddler and teenagers it just wasnt right for my family.



I so do not want to miss my lo growing up. i had the luxury of being a SAHM to the older children until the 2nd one went to playschool and want to give the youngest the same attention.



Now i am home again i am not sure what i would want to do workwise when the lo gets to playschool. i got a couple of years to work that one out.

Sarah - posted on 05/21/2009

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I have the best of both worlds.... I drive a school bus..it gets me out of the house,and my children are able to come with me...I'm home during the day,, after school, school vacations, holidays, and the whole summer too.... Its not for every body,, you really have to love doing it.... however it is like I'm getting paid to stay home with my children..

Channa - posted on 05/21/2009

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I too sometimes wish to swap roles with my husband, especially on days he says what i do is easy. I laugh at him cause he has a hard enough time dealing witht the kids for one day with out me, he lets them get him so stressed out. However i will give him the fact that the house, for some reason, does stay cleaner when he is in charge.

Channa - posted on 05/21/2009

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I am a stay at home mom and have been for 10 years now. I have recieved praise and been looked down on for making my husband work and not going out and getting a job myself. When my husband and me decided to have kids we both decided no matter what i would stay home and raise our children. I think the biggest praise i received was from my sister in law, we don't always see eye to eye, she told me that she doesn't know how i do it stayng around the kids all the time. For her going to work means getting a break from the kids with the added bonus of getting paid. however sometimes i do feel like people think all i do is sit around all day wathcing tv, when in actuality i am busy with house chores, my school work and taking care of the kids' needs.

Michelle - posted on 05/21/2009

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I am a stay at home mom I Have been for some time now, I have 3 children and My oldest is 27 and my daughter will be 19 and my youngest is 16 so I made it, Don't beat yourself up about being at home because it is a job in itself and I did not get paid for it, I did it because it is my family and that is what I am supposed to do and My husband also has a good paying job but the way the world is these days it is hard for everyone, but just pray and trust God and he will see you all through.

Michelle - posted on 05/21/2009

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I have been looking for an at home job for some time now but have not had any luck finding one that you do not have to come out of pocket, can someone tell me where one is :0)

Lyndsay - posted on 05/21/2009

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I've always wanted to be a SAHM, but am a FT working mom. Finding time to take care of cleaning, laundry, cooking, other things around the house etc. is squeezed into evenings and weekends, when I'd rather have quality time with my daughter and husband. I guess money could be spent on a cook and maid, LOL, j/k! I like to do everything myself...wish I had more time though. This is where my conflict comes from, I want to do it all! But really, no one should be looked down upon for whatever their decision. Let's just say my heart wants SAHM, but my mind tells me not to.

Michelle - posted on 05/21/2009

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of course not. im a stay at home mom and to me it is the hardest, rewarding, funnest, i can go on forever...job of them all. with great benefits too.


and being happy helps me to not notice the other moms criticism.

Wanda - posted on 05/21/2009

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I am a stay at home mom and I work at home. I have my own business which is cool. I get grown up talk time and teenage, wat up? time!! Fabulous! Anybody can do this if you got some patience and can come up with a few hours a day. I don't want to sell here but sometimes earning your own income even if it just enough to go get that latte, helps you feel a little better about your decision to stay home with the children. I hated the dear can I have? My husband is fantastic and never wanted me to feel less than equal but he was also impressed when the time came that I could buy the timmys!! Of course, now the teens have both parents they can mooch from!! Love it!!

Dottie - posted on 05/21/2009

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I think that both need to respect each other, because they both do ALOT of work whether they are stay at home or work outside the home. I work outside the home and feel that I miss out on alot with my kids. My best friend is stay at home. She loves it and is always busy. We swap stories and try to support each other.

Vanessa - posted on 05/21/2009

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I am a stay at home mum but sometimes wish I could go to work from time to time just to keep my mind in good working order and to remember what it was like before life as a mum and wife. I don't feel as if my efforts as a stay at home mum are always recognized by a lot of people.

Andrea - posted on 05/21/2009

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I am a working mother, had to go back to work when she was 8wks old and have been working since. Though, I do enjoy working, kind of a little break but in all I must say it helps me appreciate every moment outside of work that I get with my Little Girl!!!!! Also, stay at home mom's I commend you .... alot of work goes into it and many do not realize all that is entailed!!!!

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This is something that I have always said since I became a mom. mothers are the worst critics, instead of criticizing each other or judging each other, we should band together and support each other. It takes a village.....

Tiara - posted on 05/21/2009

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Im a single mom and a working mum and I wish I could spend more time with my girls, I dont think I could manage a full day though ... I am striving towards working in a half day capacity so I can do more with them in the afternoon. My youngest daughter has downs syndrome and in Grade 1 and I find I need to spend more time with her with her homework, I cant do that working a full day, coming home to clean, cook etc etc ... Wish me luck!!

Lori - posted on 05/20/2009

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I'm a new SAHM. I returned to work when my oldest son was 9 months old (he's now 5). It was very hard on me as I would hear from his caregivers what firsts he had done and I felt very guilty (because he is adopted and we waited 3 years on the wait list) but finances didn't allow me to be home with him. We've just (Aug. 2008) adopted twins who are now 9 months old. I have not returned to work nor will I as daycare is so costly and the family who looked after our oldest son for the previous couple of years cannot handle 2 young children. I love being a SAHM so far.



I admire and respect both working moms and SAHM.

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I have the best of both worlds! I am able to work part time and be with my kids the rest. (ages 3 &1). I don't have to work at all, it's a personal choice. I love the freedom of taking a break from the kids yet being flexible enough to come and go from my job anytime my kids need me. My children are social butterflies and love every minute they spend at their school/ daycare, The things that they have learned are nothing shy of amazing!! I don't know that I would think of teaching them everything they have learned. Our third baby is on the way and we will sent him/her to daycare as well. I wil continue to look forward to the days that I spend with my kids, and the days that I get to her about everything they have learned!

Rebecca - posted on 05/20/2009

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Im a working mom, I have a 2yr old son and a 2 week old daughter. At least I get the first yr off for maternity/paternity leave but at the end of that time it is hard to have to go back to work. Sometimes I really wish I was a SAHM but other times I think of how hard I worked to get where I am and how much I love what I do....I work as a Paramedic. Im just glad that I dont have to work mon to fri. I work 2 day shifts then 2 night shifts then Im off for 4 days. So the only time I dont see my kids is on my 2 day shifts, when I go to work for my night shifts I leave when they are sleeping and Im home when they get up so it all seems to work out.....but it dosnt mean its not hard.

Estelle - posted on 05/20/2009

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Hi Adrienne, I feel the same way, having completed a degree i sometimes feel it was all for nothing but i could not imagine actually working full time again!

Thankfully i work from home in my field and can feel empowered by my financial input to the family also - I know my family often encourage me to get back into the workforce and dont understand my decision but i have been able to surround myself with positive people that encourage my ambition! I think when you know you have made the right decision you dont notice others trying to bring you down.

Adrienne - posted on 05/20/2009

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Becky .Do you think it,s NOT ok to stay at home, WHY?? Do you think maybe some mums are mums because the state DOES pay??? Am requesting a little explanation plz.

Jennifer - posted on 05/20/2009

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I actually do both. I stayed at home with both my girls until they went to school and now I am working but home for them in the AM and after school. I say I work from bus to bus~LOL!!! I personally have not had any issues until I was interviewing. Employers; though they won't admit it, look down on a resume that has large gaps. Funny thing is, they don't think being a stay at home Mom is a job. I think it is a harder job that any I have recieved money for. It is; however, the most rewarding I have had.

If someone actually had the gumption to say anything to me I would just tell them to get a grip! I mean Honestly.



I do find myself jealous of my husband sometimes though. Seems silly, but I wish I could just get up and take a shower and go off to work without worrying about lunches, back packs, bowls of cereal, busses and all that. Does anyone else feel that way?

Stephanie - posted on 05/20/2009

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I also have had the best of both worlds....I was able to stay-at-home with both my boys and I returned to the work force when they both reached the age of three. I currently work part-time and my shift is super early in the morning and my husband takes the kids to school and I pick them up. I am still able to volunteer at the school each week and take them to soccer practice and games. I now struggle with going full-time. I'd like too but feel I need to be there for my boys. Thankfully my husband agrees and so I'll keep doing what works for my family.

Amberleigh - posted on 05/20/2009

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Quoting Jocelyn:

I am a SAHM, and i desperately want to be a working mom (even if it is only part time). but circumstances don't allow me the opportunity to. Some times my husband makes me feel a little guilty about not working, but i haven't gotten anything like that from other mothers, which is a good thing. The grass is always greener it seems, my working mom friends tell me that they would love to be able to stay home.



I feel the same way. I love being with my daughter, but there are times when I wish I could go to work like my husband. So Im going back to school to get a better chance at a good job.  

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I have seen both sides. After de first was born i kept working, then came number two and i stayed home for 7 years. It has its con's and pro's. All the time for the kids but felt very isolated. Now i am a divorced single working mum.. long days and lots planning to keep work and home balanced. This also has it's con's and pro's. I am an independant woman and my children and wise and we help each other.. but there are also the days when i crave to sit and wait with milk and cookies till the kids get out of school.. though i am not really that kind of mum. Either way.. at home or at work, kids are hard work .. sometimes we spend 2 much time with then and sometimes 2 little.. finding the balance is tough but it is possible!! At the end of the day we are all human and make mistakes. As i mum i found out that spending time with yourself is very important.. we are not only mothers and should not forget ourselfs. Happy mothers make happy childeren... and don't forget: be nice to your children, they choose your retirementhome ;)

Lorraine - posted on 05/20/2009

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Unfortunately in Guernsey we don't have any statutory maternity laws in place and my employer only offers 6 weeks maternity (paid) so I had to store up some holidays on top of that to be able to have 10 weeks off. As I earn more than my hubby I had no choice and had to go back to work much earlier than I would have liked. I am quite lucky as she is a good baby and has settled in well with her childminder but I do feel bad that I may miss parts of her development or the childminder will do her first things with her before I do. I have always been a career girl but have been desperate for a family for two years prior to getting pregnant so I am trying to get a good balance between the work/family divide. I luckily have a hubby who is quite hands on but like I said earlier, I still wish I could have had more maternity time with her.

Michelle - posted on 05/20/2009

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I am due to go back to work in 3 months (I actually took 9 months off work). I do not want to go back and if we could afford it I would not go back. I have enjoyed being home so much. My husband is in the navy and he has already missed out on so much by being away so aften I am afriad that I will be in that position when I go back even though it's only part-time. I would never look down on stay at home mums as I would love to be one of them. I am just waiting for my husband to get a promotion at work and who knows what will happen next!!

Becky - posted on 05/20/2009

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i personally have no problem with stay at home mums, but i just couldnt do it.
The only time i have a problam is when they stay at ome so the state can pay for their kids. if you can afford not to work then thats ok for you, at the moment me and my partner could not live on aone wage, so we both have to work and our son goes to nursery.
a freind of mine does both. she works for the local council parttime thruy the week, then works from home the rest of the week, so her son only goes to daycare 2 days, and that works for her. i supose it depends on the person, the child and whatever works for them.

Patricia - posted on 05/20/2009

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I have been a stay at home mom now for two years. Before that I was a working mom, who worked full time. The cost of day care for 3 kids is a lot, so I decided to leave my job and become a stay at home mom. I love being home with my kids, but there are days I really miss my job.

Teri - posted on 05/20/2009

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I was a stay at home mom, never felt looked down upon, if anything maybe envied. I believe it is best for the kids to stay at home and wouldn't have changed a thing even if we had to do without things, my kids never new how poor we really were and they really are glad thatI was always there.

Morag - posted on 05/20/2009

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I am a working mum... but if I had a choice and I really, really don't, I'd be a SAHM. I knit and bake and make clothes for the girls and even my DH says I am very domesticated. I was made to be a SAHM. But thanks to the world financial crisis, I have to work. I constantly miss my girls when I am not with them. My eldest is at school though so I wouldn't see her anyway and my youngest has benefited amazingly from going to nursery... She has started reading and knows her numbers/letters/colours and she's only 16 months. So it has made me feel less guilty. I know she is stimulated and paid attention too. Plus the grandma's take her for half the day so she gets 1 to 1 attention everyday, plus exposed to Swedish, English and Spanish regularly.

Its looked down on in Spain for being a SAHM. You are expected to go to work and support your parents who will then offer free child care for you while you are at work. Families living together is very common, the culture is vastly different. Day care is incredibly cheap. For example from 8am until 8pm, I can send my daughter to daycare, and they would also include breakfast, snacks and lunch for the total amount of 280euros a month.!!! My daughter goes half days and only has snacks, and we pay 140euros a month. Because I am working I am entitled to 100euros a month to pay for it until they reach 3...then they get to go to school from 9am until 5pm. So technically I only pay 40euros a month.

Tbh, I have found more negative comments from SAHM mums towards me as a working mum. But I have noticed that people who come from cultures where they believe all young people should work, or people without kids tend to look down on SAHM. My main experience obviously is as a working mum. Comments such as according to the Lord you should be a SAHM, or SAHM have the hardest job... well I might not be at home all day with the kids, but I have to fit a whole day into a couple of hours, and still have all the chores, cooking, cleaning to do after having worked all day. Its hard being a mum is hardwork full stop but I got to be a SAHM for a while after I had both my girls and it was much easier than having to go to work and being a mum, and I loved every second. As a working mum I have a lot more work to do and a lot more guilt and sadness to deal with... But thats just me. I am forced to work, I suppose if it was my choice or I enjoyed my work, it would be much different.

Vanessa - posted on 05/20/2009

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Hi, i'm a stay at home mom & i haven't been look down apon that i no of. I enjoy being a stay at home mom, i'm here when my oldest gets home from school & i have baby sat in my home as well, i find being a stay at home mom is cheaper then sending my girls to daycare & paying a whole lot of my wages when i can work out of my home & make money just as easy & i no that my girls are safe here & i no where they are. Stay at home mom's do not get enough crediet. Us mom's have the hardest job in the world. Stay at home or not.

Jennifer - posted on 05/20/2009

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Wow! It sounds like a lot of you are struggling with this decision. I have been in both worlds and have now found my solution to this struggle. I used to work full time and raise my children. I was lucky enough to have a mother in law who was able to babysit my kids for me so I didn't have to worry about the cost of daycare but there was still the drama of the working mom syndrome that my kids had. It would take me until 10:00 or later to get my kids to stay in bed because they craved that time with me. I finally decided that after having my 4th child it wasn't worth going to a full time job. Now I am a stay at home mom but I also have my work time too! I became a Pampered Chef Consultant and I absolutely love it! I get to stay at home with my kids and enjoy fun activities with them and I get to get away from them for a little adult time too! I choose when I do and do not work and I love it! If you think it might be something you want to look into go to my website and check it out! You can contact me through my website too if you have any questions. just copy and paste this into your address bar. www.pamperedchef.biz/jennpead good luck with your decision making process! As for being looked down upon it has not happened to me in either situation.

Heather - posted on 05/20/2009

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I admire both! I am a full time working mom since Anna turned 3 months. One of the hardest times in my life was leaving her to go back to work. I often romantisize being a stay at home mom, but know that it isn't an easy job either way. The hardest part for me is that I have to travel for my work. The overnights without her kill me!!!! All mothers are amazing~~~!!!

Mel - posted on 05/20/2009

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i have. i feel i have to give my reasons for not working since alot of people often say so what are you doing these days, as if having a 13 month old on 3 hour feeds isnt enough. being a mum is a job in my opinion just not a paid one.

Natalee - posted on 05/20/2009

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i am a stay at home mum and i find it very rewarding for both me and my children. i do sometimes think that working mums do look down on those that dont work but i think its what you as a mum thinks is best for yourself and your children. i would love to go back to work but i feel at this moment neither of my children are ready for that. my daughter starts school in september so im thinking of getting a part time job as she will need alot of home help with her having dispraxia

Stacey - posted on 05/20/2009

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im a sahm and i love being home with my son all though some days i wish i did work to get a break. and yes i get looked down up on for staying home from my partners side of the family yet his sister has 2 kids and hasnt worked a day in her life

Bobbie - posted on 05/19/2009

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Yes to both! but just remember the God blessed you with the abilty to say home with your babies so don't let anyone take that joy away.

Jinglebones - posted on 05/19/2009

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I'm with Bernice Castro - do what works for you and your family - not everyone has the same choices available to them. I really wish women would stop attacking each other for the different choices we make. I am an older mom who has a husband with a high paying, very secure job - he also has to work his tushy off because he is at a high rank and has to travel quite a bit with work, which means I am commander in chief for a lot of the time. I am not complaining because we have a wonderful lifestyle and he is a great dad (it can be a little lonely, though, because we have been transferred a lot and I really do not know many people and do not speak the language well where we live...). Everyone has their own row to hoe; I wish we could be kinder to the folks who are working the dirt with us... We are all working moms...

Mel - posted on 05/19/2009

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i would love to be a sahm, or even go back to work part time

but unfortunatly due to our society unless he gets a better higher paid job, we just can't afford to miss out on my wage!!!

my sister is a sahm, my cousin was and they love it although my mum was working.

i really want to provide my child with everything i didn't hav but both my parents worked and stil couldnt make end meet so i don't see how im going to be any better at it

:(

Bernice - posted on 05/19/2009

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I've been on both sides of the table. After having my daughter I was back to work 3 weeks after she was born. I was on bed rest for 4 months prior so I was going bonkers ans in need of adult contact. My husband was working 12 hour days so that left me with 3 kids which at times can drive you crazy. Being pregnant with 3 boys was very hard and I had to get back to work. When I got home from work it was like she didn't know who I was. So after working for 1 1/2 years I am now a PROUD stay at home mom of 4 who at times wishes she was working. My best advise is do what you think is best for you and your child (ren) and not what people say you should do.
I hope I helped ...

Brooke - posted on 05/19/2009

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During yr 12 I fell pregnant.. I was 17 and it resulted in a m/c, I left school because I felt it wasn't for me now I am 18 have a beautiful daughter who is 4 months old and next year I plan on going to TAFE to study aged care so I can get into enrolled nursing. I would love to stay at home with my baby, but after a long think about everything we plan on having more children and the best oppurtunity for me to fulfil my dream of being a midwife is now. I dont think I am being selfish, I think of it as an oppurtunity for my partner to be a stay at home dad at one point.

Malinda - posted on 05/19/2009

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I'm a Working Mom by choice. I don't *have* to work, but I enjoy my work and feel that the life I am able to provide my children doing so is better for them overall than if I stayed home. I also know that my children have an excellent care situation where they learn things from a loving trained professional that I may not have thought to teach them. Care from a person who truly loves them and will be part of their life forever, increasing my childrens' "village" (and I do believe that it takes a village). They don't lose me - they get me every morning before their caretaker arrives, evenings after she leaves, and all weekends. Because I spend my days at work, I never feel like I need "time away" so I am fully dedicated to our family when I am home. At the end of the day, it's the right choice for my family. It may not be the right choice for everybody, and so I don't judge those who make different choices - I admire EVERY woman who sets up her life to make the choices that are right for her and her family. And I'm sad for the women who do not feel like they have that power.

And if others *do* judge my choices, I don't hear it (or maybe I'm just not listening very closely because frankly, it isn't someone else's place to decide what is best for my family).

Shelagh - posted on 05/19/2009

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Yes, yes, and again yes. When I was at home I felt I should be at work. And when I was at work I felt I should be at home. Permanent guilt trip.

Emily - posted on 05/19/2009

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Quoting Jocelyn:

I am a SAHM, and i desperately want to be a working mom (even if it is only part time). but circumstances don't allow me the opportunity to. Some times my husband makes me feel a little guilty about not working, but i haven't gotten anything like that from other mothers, which is a good thing. The grass is always greener it seems, my working mom friends tell me that they would love to be able to stay home.


 



I was planning to be a SAHM but I felt like I wanted to get back to work so I got a part time job at my local YMCA childwatch. I get to take my son to work with me and watch him while I work, I think its a great opportunity if your a mother and want to work at the same time.

Carleen - posted on 05/19/2009

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My thing is i've been a sahm now i am trying to get back to work and it is so hard. My boys are teenagers and i am only 38 not sure what the future holds for me.

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