vaccines

Kari - posted on 12/22/2010

P.S. to my previous post:
Another point I forgot to mention is that the Vaccine Safety Manual discusses genetic illnesses and allergies which are important to consider before vaccination. Unfortunately, I've never heard of a doctor taking those into account before vaccinating an infant.
A friend of mine has 3 children. Her first son had a fever and vomiting immediately following his third DPT shot. She was told he must have caught a bug, and it was just a coincidence. After that, he had a fever and vomiting every 21 days, and it would last for 3 days. They stopped all vaccinations. He recently turned 4, and is now just running a fever every 21 days and not vomiting any more. He was diagnosed with Periodic Fever Disorder, which her Dr. mentioned is rising in children, and it's considered a genetic disorder that can possibly be triggered by vaccination. Nobody ever mentioned that to her or asked her any questions that might have prevented the issue. So far, their other children have not had any issues and have not been vaccinated. Again, I know this is controversial, but I thought I would share. I've heard too many stories like this, so I think it's important to do the research. Whatever you decide, good for you for researching!

Kari - posted on 12/22/2010

This is such a heated and controversial topic, so I'm glad you were willing to ask the question! I think everyone should do the research. Anything that impacts your child's health is important to research. I highly recommend the Vaccine Safety Manual by Neil Z Miller. It is a great resource that is medically based and well-documented. It does not focus on Autism. Instead, he discusses details regarding every vaccine, not just childhood vaccines. And each vaccine has it's own section, so it is easy to go back and review info on individual shots. Of course, the book does have bias. I haven't found a resource on either side that doesn't, but this is the best one I've read so far. It is not just emotional conjecture like most of the other resources I've read. The book discusses the history of each vaccine, medical studies on both sides of the debate, vaccine ingredients, and much more. If you decide to vaccinate, you can definitely choose which ones you consider unnecessary, and you can also choose your own vaccination schedule. You are the parent. You get to make these choices for your child. I'm glad you are doing the research!

Sara - posted on 12/22/2010

Get "The Vaccine Book" by Dr. Sears. I believe it will answer all your questions and is the best source for information I have found.

Crystal - posted on 12/22/2010

I hope you read my response about chicken pox vaccine. I'm on a mission to let people know that chicken pox is a serious disease with long term concequences.

Crystal - posted on 12/22/2010

I hope you read my post about chicken pox. This is NOT a mild childhood disease. It is every bit as dangerous as the other diseases. Just the connections between it and the long term concequences are just being discovered. I was in a study at UCLA medical center in 2005 when I had my brain tumor removed and their conclusion was that chicken pox virus was the cause.

Crystal - posted on 12/22/2010

let me tell you about my experience. And I'll not mince words here, my experience has not bee a good one If you think that it is scare tactics...so be it.

I got to be a little kid BEFORE they invented the vaccine for chicken pox. So, I got to have the disease. It went into my head and infected my cranial nerves. I'm 45 now. and I have spent the last 25 years with the contraction/paralysis of my facial muscles because of damage to the nerves,This last week I had 53 shots of Botox into the right side of my face to reduce the contractions of the muscles. That is about 10 times as many shots as you get for one session of beauty treatment...and they go into the muscles that move my eye, my tongue and my lip. I also had a brain tumor caused by my body trying to protect itself from the chicken pox virus, which never really goes away, it only goes dormant on one's nerves. So, I had a 17 hour open skull surgery to remove the tumor. Had to relearn how to read and write. Still can't do math very well. And on top of that, I have chronic pain called neurlagia. It affects my facial nerves causing it to feel as if I'm being burned or shocked on my face. not just occasionally, but all the time, all day all night with out stopping... with out medication which is expensive and liver toxic but I take it because it gives me a life. I 've had several bouts of shingles...that's when the chicken pox virus reactivates and causes pain and itching and a rash...that unlike the chicken pox that lasts a week to ten days. Shingles can last 8 weeks or longer.

And don't think that this is just one of those rare cases..Everyday older adults suffer from shingles, it is debilitating. People often get them when they are recovering from heart surgery....and it can kill them by sapping them of the energy they need to recover...or cancer treatements...or any other stressful situation.

25 years.That is a very long time to suffer from something that can be prevented by a vaccine. Other diseases that can be prevented by vaccines have other long term effects, Measles can blind and deafen your child, mumps can cause them to be sterile, whooping cough can set a kid up for a life time of breathing problems. and ALL of diseases these can KILL a kid. Even if vaccines caused autism...and they don't. Autism is not dead.

And also there is the rest of the community to consider. Diseases are kept in check if 90% or greater of all people are vaccinated. Here in CA the vaccination level for whooping cough dropped below 90% recently..and children have DIED. My neighbors little daughter DIED of whooping cough, In AMERICA In 2010. Shameful. My other neighbor, elderly gentleman caught whooping cough. nearly died, probably should have because the bills have broken him financially.

That is my experience.

Angie - posted on 12/22/2010

Try to find sites that aren't one sided - either pro or con. I would go to places like the Mayo Clinic site.

Kate CP - posted on 12/22/2010

I'll echo what Jodi said.

Viruses and bacteria will effect different people in different ways because no two immune systems respond the same way to the same bacteria or virus exposure. That's just the way bodies work.

Jodi - posted on 12/22/2010

Actually, Amanda, people do deal with chicken pox differently. The vaccine was only very new when my son was a baby and wasn't yet on the schedule, so he never had it. He had the chicken pox when he was 2 and didn't have a fever at all. While he had a lot of pox, he didn't itch or scratch at ALL. If it weren't for the pox all over his body, you would never have known he was sick.



However, I will agree that the vaccine doesn't stop people getting it. I know a lot of kids who have still had chicken pox, but it has only been extremely mild.

Amanda - posted on 12/22/2010

People dont deal with chicken pox differently, the vaccine is not to stop chicken pox, its actually to lessen the sickiness. It is why after 5 years the Canadain government decided to start paying for the vaccine again (its cheaper to give every kid their shot then deal with the medical bills of a extremely ill children who werent vaccinated).

My mother didnt get the chicken pox until she was 25 (of course she wasnt up to date on her booster shots) so while her 3 kids (all up to date on shots) got 20-30 pox, she had to have a public health nurse come into our home and keep care of us for 2 weeks while she like my son layed in bed, with 100s of pox all over her. She had them in EVERY hole of her body. She was extremely sick, because her chicken pox shot wasnt up to date. This is what the illiness does when someone doesnt have the vaccine.

Kate CP - posted on 12/20/2010

Like I said earlier...Chicken pox effects different kids in different ways. Some get it really really bad and others it's no big deal. That's a risk you'd have to be willing to deal with if (and when) he does get the pox. Not to mention Shingles when he's older. I'm really hoping and praying I never get Shingles. :|

Amanda - posted on 12/20/2010

Chicken pox, Canadian government for a few years took it off the list of manidtory vaccines. My son didnt get this shot because he an infant while the Canadian government wouldnt pay for it. Well when my older daughter brought home the chicken pox I thought nothing of it, its ok my kids are fully up todate on their vaccines (oops mom forgot the boy didnt get his chicken pox). My daugther got a fun week off school, she had 20-30 poxs, no fevers, other then her visible pox you wouldnt even think she was sick. Now my son, he got 100's of pox, they were in his mouth, nose, ears, anus, he was covered head to toe, the fevers were so scarey he almost ended up in the ER 3 times. Took him 2 weeks to get well, for the first week 1/2 all he did was lay there. He barely ate, I spent every night covering his hands with oven gloves and sleeping with him holding his hands together to make sure he wasnt itching in his sleep.



But hey if you dont wanna do the chicken pox, dont worry it only makes children sterile, it can turn to strep, fleshing eatting, extreme fevers that can cause seizures.

Kelina - posted on 12/20/2010

where I live it's not necessary for kids to have their vaccines to enter school. Jenn, Yes, that's what I'm looking at. with one look at tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis, I knew i'd be getting her that vaccine. What I was having difficulty finding were numbers. percentages, statistics etc. That vaccine the benefits far outweigh the risk. along with Hib, pneumococcal, and meningococcal, after looking at them i'd rather get her the vaccine and risk her possibly having a reaction than have her get the illness and regret it the rest if my life. But I'm still not sure about the MMR or the chickenpox vaccines. The risks simply don't seem that significant.
PS I' one of those people who doesn't believe in the flu vaccine either.

Kate CP - posted on 12/20/2010

The kids that had been vaccinated didn't have their complete vaccines, thus their immunity wasn't complete. Also, immunity varies from person to person and while one dose of a vaccine may work for one child another child may need the 3 boosters. This is why an infant who is 4 months old can still get pertussis. Also, because people are opting out of vaccines and not updating their own boosters as adults the viruses are mutating making some vaccines less effective in some circumstances.

If nothing else a person should absolutely get the vaccines to protect against diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis (DTaP) and the polio vaccine. These are all deadly diseases that can be prevented with a vaccine.

Alyssa - posted on 12/20/2010

I decided against vaccines. My son has never been sick, we go out all the time, we've been to california, we've flown lots and i'm not fussy about germs, I truly believe that we didn't just "get lucky" but that my son's immune system is strong. His pediatrician said that most vaccines he doesn't care about. I've found several sites that have had information on otbreaks, and most of the kids had been vaccinated?! I personally know of two babies of friends of mine that got whooping cough...and had gotten vaccines. This tells me so much. You can still get your child into school.... ( http://www.unhinderedliving.com/statevac... ) if they aren't vaccinated. Either choice has risk for sure, and everyone has to pick what they think is best for them and their kids!
http://www.thinktwice.com/ploys.htm

Emily - posted on 12/20/2010

Agree with Jodi as well. Get protected not just for you, but for those around you who CAN'T get vaccines, such as premature babies and immune-compromised folks. I used to get so mad hearing about people not getting their vaccines after I brought home my 4lb premature baby who was so vulnerable.

Emily - posted on 12/20/2010

I agree, Victoria. I used to work with a woman who had permanent and severe brain damage due to having measles as a child.. this is just one example, but these are things that we just aren't exposed to anymore due to vaccines so we 'forget' the devastating consequences of the illnesses. Go to a 3rd world country somewhere and see an infant die from an illness that we routinely prevent with a $1 vaccine, and I think people's eyes would be opened.

Jodi - posted on 12/20/2010

Here's my advice, like the other ladies have said, talk to a doctor. I found a nurse down in public health VERY helpful and informative without a real bias. She reccomended vaccines but gave me the information about the risks associated with them.

When looking on the net, seach both sides of the issue, both pro-vaccination and anti-vaccination, that way you get both sides of the story. Obviously, any site that is non-biased is best to get your information from, but those are hard to find on any controversial topic.
My daughter gets all of her vaccines and my husband and I get our boosters because nearly all diseases/illnesses that are preventable through vaccine are on the rise, this correlates (but is not the finite cause of) with lower and lower rates of vaccinated children and adults. Like someone else said, remember that this decision not only effects your child, but other children as well.

Jenn - posted on 12/20/2010

I think it is great that you are researching things to make the best decisions for your child. I would like to give you a few things to think about. Are you researching the risks of not vaccinating your child? Specifically, researching things like Whooping cough, Rhotovirus, and Swine flu. The other thing to keep in mind is if your child get something like the measles they could pass to a child who hasn't recieved the vaccine due to their age. You are making choices for other children too. I understand being a new mom and being concerned but I highly suggest getting the statistics from your peditrician and not a random site. ( It appears that it was you are trying to do) My daughters doctor has pamphlets with all that information. AAP website also has some articles and numbers about vaccines. (It is my understanding that alot of Peditricians referance this site and its not just a clever name)

Victoria - posted on 12/20/2010

If you have ever seen a child ridden with polio or small pox or diptheria yo would eat your worries in a heartbeat and line up no matter what it took to get those vaccines! I grew up with an uncle who was a lucky polio victim, he grew up after spending long periods of time in an iron lung with a crippled spine and leg. He spent most of his life in pain. Smallpox is not eradicated so take a look on line what it could do to someone not inoculated. Measles blind and kill and are on thr rise thanks to those who won't get inoculated. There is no link between autism and vaccines. Be safer and get them inoculated read how those diseases are still around and how to protect your child --the repercussions are so much worse should they contract any of these diseases it isn't worth it.

Callie - posted on 12/19/2010

I would definitely find a health professional to talk to. I know many people don't find chicken pox as a scary illness because we all had it when we were little. But like a pp said just because you survived the illness doesn't mean every one will. My parents thought nothing about the chicken pox until my brother, sister and I all had it at the same time. We also ended up with strep throat at the same time too. Fortunately our doctors were able to keep things under control and nothing serious happened but if the staph infection would have ended up in one of the pox it could have led to a blood infection and eventually resulted in death if doctors couldn't control it. So just talk to a trust worthy health professional. That's what they're there for to help you keep your family healthy.

Sherri - posted on 12/19/2010

The Chicken Pox vaccine is grouped into the list of vaccines that is required to attend school just an FYI for those that want to opt out of it.

Rebecca - posted on 12/19/2010

Talk to your doc. I went on the web and pretty much scared the shit out of myself. Then I went to my doc and had a pro/con talk. He even told me that his sister's kids choose not to but he chooses to. He gave me the reasons for both cases and talked about the real science and stats behind stuff. That really is your best bet.

As well, it doesn't have to be all in or all out. You can choose to do some and opt out of others (like chicken pox or a little later the HPV vac).

Emily - posted on 12/19/2010

In my opinion the best websites for medical information are those that are from reputible organizations that use actual scientific research, like AAP, the WHO, or National Institute of Health. And generally if the website ends in .edu it's usually good info.



It seems like most of the vaccine websites out there use scare tactics. The bottom line is, vaccines save more lives than they harm. There are millions of children that die all over the world every day from diseases that our kids can get vaccinated for.

Kelina - posted on 12/19/2010

thanks ladies. The only problem with talking to my doctor is 1) she's old enough that she delivered me and so is her info and 2) she's not very easy to talk to. 1 or 2 word answers are her specialty. I did manage to find a half decent site www.kidshealth.org has some good information that seems to be back by the other medical sites i tried to wade through. I'm going to try and talk to one of the nurses here in our town though. Here's to hoping she's actually there on wednesday!

Morgan - posted on 12/19/2010

I totally agree with Sherri.

Sherri - posted on 12/19/2010

Sit down with you pediatrician to be and go over all these questions with them. They will answer you questions honestly and patiently with the right doctor. Please do not just rely on the internet for your information because pro vaccine sites and Anti vaccine sites simply twist the information to suit their views. Go to a trained professional that can give you all the information you need and ease your fears.

Sarah - posted on 12/19/2010

Vaccinations can sometimes cause a low-grade fever. If untreated, and increasing, can lead to febrile seizures in young children. This is an extremely rare complication from vaccinations. Children can also extremely rarely have allergic reactions. More common are pain at the injection site, redness and slight swelling of the injection site, sometimes (with some vaccinations) a measles-like rash, and irritability. All of these are temporary. Tylenol given prophylactically following the vaccine can help avoid or alleviate many of these symptoms. As a pediatric nurse, I highly recommend vaccinations, they do save lives (not just your child, but other people too - remember if your child is sick, they can infect others too - elderly, immunocompromised, and pregnant women are particularly susceptible). Many illnesses can cause serious life-altering complications. Some, such as Chicken Pox, who many think are harmless, are in reality serious illness. For example, if a pregnant woman faces a primary exposure, it can cause mental retardation in her baby. Not to mention that up to 1000 healthy children in the US die every year from the Chicken Pox. Completely preventable.

Health Canada provides this information on available vaccinations, though you can get more detailed information from your physician or public health nurse:

1. Diphtheria can cause serious breathing problems for your child. Diphtheria can damage your child's heart and nervous system and cause paralysis.
2. Tetanus is a disease that most people think of if they step on a rusty nail. Tetanus is also found in dirt, manure and human stool. If tetanus gets into your baby's open cut, it can cause muscle spasms, convulsions and death.
3. Pertussis (Whooping Cough) can turn into severe coughing ("whooping" sound), choking and vomiting. It can last for weeks or months, and may even cause death. It is most dangerous when your baby is under six months old.
4. Polio attacks your child's nervous system and can paralyze muscles or even cause death.
5. Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib) can cause meningitis - an infection of the lining around your child's spinal cord and brain. It can also cause pneumonia, swelling in the back of the throat, deafness and death.
6. Measles can cause a rash, high fever, cough, runny nose and watery eyes that could last from 1–2 weeks. Measles can also cause pneumonia, convulsions, deafness, brain damage and death.
7. Mumps can cause a fever, headache, and swollen, painful cheeks and neck. It could make your child deaf and cause meningitis. In rare cases, mumps can affect future ability to have children.
8. Rubella (German measles) causes a fever and a rash, which usually lasts for less than a week. It is very serious for unborn babies. If a pregnant woman who has no protection against rubella comes in contact with this disease early in her pregnancy, she could have a miscarriage. After exposure to rubella, the baby could be born deaf, blind, or with heart or brain damage. Before you become pregnant, ask your doctor if you need a rubella shot.
9. Varicella (Chickenpox) causes a low fever and an itchy rash of blisters that form scabs. In some children, chickenpox causes severe skin infections (like flesh-eating disease), scars, pneumonia, brain damage or death.
10. Hepatitis B affects the liver and can sometimes cause liver cancer or other serious liver problems for your child.
11. Pneumococcal disease can cause pneumococcal meningitis, pneumonia, ear and blood infections. It could make your child deaf or cause brain damage.
12. Meningococcal disease can cause meningitis - an infection of the lining around your child's spinal cord and brain - or a blood infection. Children can die from meningitis.
13. Influenza (The flu) is a common respiratory infection that begins in your child's nose and throat. Influenza can be serious - especially for infants and young children. If your child has influenza complications, she may have difficulty breathing or might develop pneumonia.

http://www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/iyc-vve/pg...

I think the point is, is that no matter what you decide, it is not without risk. You have to ask yourself, are you willing to risk any one of the many possible complications from the illnesses themselves, or the rare complications from the vaccines?

Kate CP - posted on 12/18/2010

http://www.circleofmoms.com/immune-disor...



This link will give you a general idea of how the immune system works and how vaccines are supposed to work. If you have a family history of vaccine reaction then I would talk to your doctor about an alternate schedule. However, I do think that vaccines are very important and all children (baring those who CANNOT have them for whatever reason) should be inoculated.



Any site or information source you go to will come with the the assumption of some sort of bias either for or against vaccines. There's really no way around that because humans write the reports and humans put their own emotional spin on things.



If you have no familial history of vaccine reaction the chances that your daughter will have a reaction are fairly marginal. If you're worried about it spread the vaccines out so she's not being bombarded with lots of bacteria/viruses at once (although most vaccines use dead virus or bacteria as it's much much safer).



Lifetime immunity doesn't really exist for any one in any circumstance regardless of whether or not you acquired the disease naturally or via a vaccine. Your body will only produce the antibody markers for a specific bacterium or virus for as long as it determines it a threat. This is why people who were vaccinated 10 years ago for DTaP (diphtheria, tetanus, and pertussis) can still get sick and why people who have had whooping cough (pertussis) before can still get sick if it's been a long time since they last had the infection.



Every body is different. The way one person's body deals with the chicken pox can be very different from the way YOUR body deals with chicken pox. Some children who get chicken pox become deathly ill and get sores everywhere (including in their nasal passages, throat, and eyes). The diseases that we vaccinate for are highly contagious and many of them can be deadly and/or don't have a cure. My advice is to get the vaccines but spread them out if you're nervous about it.

Lise - posted on 12/18/2010

Just a piece of advice, go to a doctor you trust or a health nurse. The internet is full of information on vacines and i wouldn't trust any of it. Anyone can put anything on the internet and make it sound scientific and factual. The sezuires you heard about may have been fibrial sezuires caused by a fever which in turn can be a side effect of vacines. Fibrial (sorry probably spelled wrong) sezuires don't cause any brain damage like some other sezuire disorders. Good luck on your search.

JuLeah - posted on 12/18/2010

So, I sat down with a doctor I trust and asked all my question. I also did net research.
What I learned is this: Whatever you learn today will have changed in ten years time.
What was suggested and thought correct ten years ago has changed.
My doc recommended I give most, but not all shots. He also suggested I divide them so my baby was not bombarded with all at once.
They give as many as they do out of a fear that the parent won't bring the kid back.
There are side effects to giving the shots and there is risk.
There are risks to not giving shots.
I have known kids who got very ill, my daughter included from a vaccine.
I have known kids who got very ill becuase they did not have the vaccine.
Learn what you can, make the bext choice you can and pray for the best.
Vaccines do not come with a promise of good health and not giving vaccines, also won't offer any promises.

Kelina - posted on 12/18/2010

No. I've hear that the autism thing was refuted. However, knowing what I do about circumcision related deaths going unreported or underreported, it makes me wonder how many children really do have adverse effects from the vaccines that aren't reported. I recently met a mom with a four month old little girl who started having seizures within several hours of getting her vaccines. The doctors have told ehr it has nothing to do with the vaccines but honestly, what could the chances be of that child spontaneously starting to have seizures the same day as she got her vaccines? It doesn't make sense to me. Also, I don't know too much about the illnesses themselves, but I saw something a while back about some of the things kids are being vaccinated against not being that bad. Like the chickenpox vaccine, which i started to question. Everyone I know had the chickenpox and it was nothing more than a week of itchiness if that, and then you have a lifetime immunity. But doesn't the vaccine need to be boostered every 5 years? That type of stuff if that makes any sense lol

Katherine - posted on 12/18/2010

Well, what is your biggest fear? Autism? Because they DO NOT cause Autism. There has been a breakthrough study done and it has absolutely nothing to do with vaccines. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hy...