What are your thoughts on the MMR Shots?? good or bad..

Tanz - posted on 09/24/2011 ( 130 moms have responded )

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Has anyone's child had any bad affects to these MMR shots? My daughter is 17months and has been immunised up until now however i dont want her to have her MMR. I've met a lady who's son became autistic after his MMR shots. However the Dr's and Nurses keep hounding me to get her immunised. Thoughts??

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Johnny - posted on 09/24/2011

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There has been zero proof that MMR vaccine and autism are linked. Quite the opposite in fact. The study that suggested this has been proven a fraud. Some (very rarely) have reactions to vaccines, that can cause a variety of issues. This is very uncommon and unlikely. Your child is not going to become autistic from the MMR. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jan/05/...

Johnny - posted on 09/24/2011

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My daughter had the MMR vaccine (on a delayed schedule) with no side effects. My neighbor did not vaccinate her son and he is autistic. Correlation does not equal causation.

Jenni - posted on 09/25/2011

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There has been two large studies on Autism to see if there was indeed a link between Autism and vaccinations (after the Wakefield study).



One was in Montreal and one was done in Denmark (where the MMR is optional). Both studies found the same percentage of infantile autism in both vaccinated and unvaccinated children.



Fact; no one knows what causes autism. Your friend is not a doctor. She does *not* know what caused her son's autism. Correlation is not causation.



Fact; Autism does not cause death. Measles, Rubella, Mumps can cause death or serious complications.



Not to mention, by not vaccinating your healthy child... you are putting those who *cannot* be vaccinated (because they are too young, too ill, or have a medical history of bad reactions to vaccinate) at risk.



For example, if your child were to catch Rubella and come in contact with a pregnant mother who is unvaccinated, the disease could cause damage to her unborn fetus:



FETUS



The risk to a fetus is highest in the first few weeks of pregnancy and then declines in terms of both frequency and severity, although there is still some risk in second trimester. The virus infects the placenta and then spreads to the fetus. In an outbreak of rubella in the United States in the mid 1960's, there were over 12 million cases of rubella and 20,000 cases of congenital rubella syndrome. If non-immune mothers are infected in the first trimester, up to 80% of neonates may have sequelae.



The sequelae of congenital rubella syndrome are:



Hearing loss. This is the most common sequella of congenital rubella infection especially when the latter occurs after four months of pregnancy.



Congenital heart defects such as ductus arteriosis and others



Neurologic problems (psychomotor retardation, mental retardation, microcephaly)



Ophthalmic problems (cataract, glaucoma, retinopathy, microphthalmia - table 1)



intrauterine growth retardation



Thrombocytopenia purpura



Hepatomegaly



Splenomegaly



Where do you take your child when they are sick? The doctor's, the ER... where they come in contact with pregnant women, newborns and other people who are not vaccinated for medical reasons.



And this is just the tip of the iceburg of what not vaccinating can cause.



I suggest (if you haven't already) research these diseases we vaccinate against. Getting the vaccination is by far the lesser evil than putting your child and others at risk for these diseases based on some unfounded 'link' between the MMR and Autism. As well as anecdotal information from a friend who is not a medical professional.

Jane - posted on 09/27/2011

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@Stacy M. - Because the more people are NOT vaccinated, the greater the risk that pools of various diseases will remain and grow larger, posing an increased risk to babies who haven't been vaccinated yet or to people with immune system problems. You need to learn about how public health and disease in human populations works before you can issue that particular challenge.

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Joanne - posted on 09/28/2011

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if you want to immunise your child with seperate vaccines, there sre many dr's who will do it for about £100 per jab. we've had our 4 yougest children immunised seperately at dr john oakley in sutton coalfields as he has an outstanding reputation for safety and using up to date and tested (as opposed to non tested from the nhs in the past) vaccines that are known to be safe and have been thoroughly tested . we chose this option as our 8 year old had delayed development and we didnt wish to put her at any risk of autism, as we believe it clearly causes it in some children. dr wakefield was publicly stoned to make the populous behave themselves and immunise their children even though they know his research was geniune, but they had to discredit him due to the danger it posed to society as a whole. its ridiculous to believe that bombarding tiny children with the now ridiculous amount of vaccines in one go, cant have any risks atatched.

Sal - posted on 09/28/2011

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i don't know what country you are in stacy, i am in australia, here the govt actually pays a bonus incentive when at 18months the schedual is complete....also here you need to prove vaccination to go to preschool or childcare, i'm sure there are ways around it in case of adverse family reactions but to me those things seem to point to the govt trying very hard to maximse the people who vaccinate not to mention that it is all free....how much more do they have to do??

Jodi - posted on 09/28/2011

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And lets not forget ANY product including corn syrup, of which most contains large amounts of mercury, is processed using hydrochloric acid and an enzyme produced by bacteria, and is in most commercially prepared foods, many cosmetic products, shampoos, conditioners, diapers, and more.

But it must be the mercury in those damn vaccines......

Minnie - posted on 09/27/2011

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What I am interested to know is if anyone staunchly anti-vaccine due to the chemicals in them makes sure to avoid the use of artificial infant formula, use only baking soda, borax and white vinegar as cleaning agents at home, don't use artificial sweeteners or eat chemically cured meats, only consume food products labeled organic (but not boxed organic products, because many contain MSG), only eat grass-fed and pastured meat and eggs, have a reverse osmosis filter at home, don't give their kids sweets and the like...don't all of these products contain harmful chemicals? No doubt they themselves build up over years of consumption.

Stacey - posted on 09/27/2011

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Honestly, I respect what anyone has to say not persecuting anyone. But don't you think that if the government fully believed that vaccinations should be the law, it would be? There is so much controversy that we can all get caught up in it. Listen to the media, listen to your heart, listen to what everyone else tells you to do, listen to whatever it is that you do. It's not my business. And again, I say in my own belief, if the government thought it was just and fully "right", it would probably be a law...but it's not.

Sal - posted on 09/27/2011

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hey stacy p, while you are keeping your newborn at home, would you mind keeping the other nonvaxed kiddies there to....in all seriousness if you put my child at risk by knowlingly putting your unvaxxed and exposed child near minen i would explore what legal avenues i could find, it is danugerous, pig headed and neglectful, thankgod i am able to vacciate mine as there are seeme to be no limit to this nonsence

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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More children would get sick and die from the disease.......

But as I said, if you children have reactions, or if you have a family history of bad reactions/allergies, that's considered a valid medical reason. However, encouraging others to not vaccinate if they DON'T have those reasons is irresponsible.

Stacey - posted on 09/27/2011

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I'm not here to argue like I said before but yes, I would still keep the stance. If there was a "change" in the vaccinations themselves and there was something else that wasn't harmful, then I might change my mind. But that would be a miracle. I don't want people to die or become sick. But my children have become sick from vaccines. So I keep my stance. You all can keep yours. The initial writer Tanz asked for opinions and advice, that's all I am giving.

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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"I would be interested at what sources the anti vaxxers source their "facts" from"

Dr Mercola of course!!!!!!

Charlie - posted on 09/27/2011

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It doesnt take a genius to figure out that those who are at risk from non vaxxers are infants too young to recieve immunisations , the elderly , those with valid medical reason NOT to vaccinate and those with immune disorders.......seriously people , thinking caps !



Disturbingly enough deaths in infants from these diseases have been on the rise in towns where vaccination is at an all time low.....your choice affects others.

Charlie - posted on 09/27/2011

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I would be interested at what sources the anti vaxxers source their "facts" from I am yet to see an unbiased , non propaganda source or from a source that doesnt have an alterior motive.

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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So...Stacey, let's say we all took your stance, absolutely EVERYONE....would you be happy for all these disease to just....come back? Would you feel as confident then?

Stacey - posted on 09/27/2011

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I am aware of herd immunity and I am still anti vaccination. I have done the research...endless research.

Sherri - posted on 09/27/2011

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Ya Stacey that is not optional for all people. My older 3 kids are in school. I volunteer in the school, my newborn will be in the school touched and surrounded by a million kids from the day he comes home from the hospital. Not to mention I do in home daycare and once again will be surrounded by a whole bunch of kids daily.

Stifler's - posted on 09/27/2011

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Interesting that people are so anti vax and have "done their research" but have no idea of herd immunity. Interesting indeed.

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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If your children cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons, then that is very different. There is a small percentage of the population who react to vaccines and can't have them. There is also a percentage of the population who have immunity disorders, and vaccines simply don't work properly. THESE are the people I am concerned about, and THESE are the people who will be protected if the rest of us vaccinate. However, the more people who CHOOSE not to vaccinate for non-medical reasons, the more likely that these people could be infected with the disease. So yes, your choices, if it is for non-medical reasons, affect other people.

Stacey - posted on 09/27/2011

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I understand the worries fully and completely about lack of vaccination. But there are also risks to getting those vaccinations as well. Because of the negative responses 2 of my 4 children have had from different vaccines, I will not take that chance again. Keep your newborns close to you and don't pass them around a well populated area. We've all been told that by our baby's pediatrician. There are other ways to keep your children safe without subjecting them to toxic chemicals...though in low dose...could be harmful.

Sherri - posted on 09/27/2011

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Stacey it isn't the children that are vaccinated we worry about, it is the infants to young to be able to be vaccinated or the people that can not be vaccinated for medical reasons that your children not being vaccinated effect.

Stacey - posted on 09/27/2011

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to the vaccine believers....if you are vaccinated then why should worry if others are not? Aren't you "protected"? A vaccine is not going to make you "healthier" think about all the chemicals in the ingredients. everyone has a choice, make an informed decision, Tanz.. interesting on all the "expert" advice here

Stacey - posted on 09/27/2011

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It is not the law to vaccinate your child, it is your choice. This is not an argument, it is a right to choose what happens to your family.

Stacey - posted on 09/27/2011

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I would also swear till I was black & blue that the MMR vaccine "triggered" my son's autism. I do not know or have proof that it is the cause, but it certainly triggered it. Within days of his vaccination he was a changed boy. I didn't notice it right away because I thought it was just a normal reaction. I've done all of the research hearing both sides of the story. I do NOT vaccinate my children anymore and I have 4 of them. It is a personal choice and we have chosen to try to make changes in our lifestyle (such as food, natural soaps, etc.) In order to be healthier and have the ability to develop our own antiboties. Yes, we do get sick sometimes and we go to the doctor...but not any more than that person who was vaccinated. Probably less...we don't get sick very often.

My autistic son is now 7. My youngest is 17 months and he has never had a vaccine. He is the smartest and healthiest of the bunch. Your choice. :)

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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@ Sherri, you do realise that the sooner the immune system kicks in, the sooner you get well? If you prevent the optimum functioning of the immune system by dosing up with Tylenol to prevent fever, it is only logical it will take longer to recover, and you feel crappy for longer anyway.......

Stifler's - posted on 09/27/2011

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I will never understand giving kids panadol for no reason in case they get a fever. It's not like you can't give it to them when they actually get a fever. I've never had to give either of my kids anything after their needles.

Charlie - posted on 09/27/2011

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LMAO Dr ( dont get vaccinated come to my website and let me fill you with nonsense while I blast you with ads for my awesome vitamins for you to purchase and make me rich) Mercola hahaha....Yeah the Osteopath only has your best interests at heart.

Lisa - posted on 09/27/2011

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The idea that autism is linked to immunizations has been totally debunked. Autism has risen 600% in the past 20 years. There are many believed causative factors, but that is not one of them. It is imperative not only to protect your child against these life-threatening diseases, but to prevent the spread to other children. Mumps causes boys to be sterile. Any of these diseases can kill a child. This is from a nurse and a mom who thoroughly did homework before doing immunizations. I did it for both mine as well as the hepatitis series because hepatitis can easily kill a child. These diseases are far scarier than any actual reactions to the shots which are quite rare and usually consist of redness around the shot area.

Sal - posted on 09/27/2011

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get the vacc, no excuses just do it, if taking advice from people who link it to autism you might as well take advice from a monkey, they are choosing to spread fear and faulse info and horror stories, all evidence has proven that there is no link,if they can read the info that links it they could read the info that proves mmr vacc safe all my kids have had vacces all n schedual a bit of a temp or tender arm is it for side effects to my kids, but that is nothing compared to seeing a child suffer with one of the diseases



***note please that if your child or your family has history or allergic reactions don't get them that is why everyone who can be vaccnated should be,

Sherri - posted on 09/27/2011

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Ya we always medicate even for low grade fevers. I hate not feeling well and I will take ibuprofen just so I feel better. I use the same rule of thumb for my kids who wants to feel like crap and not be able to function. No thank you.

Minnie - posted on 09/27/2011

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Ah, this was 4 1/2 years ago. We don't see that doctor anymore. :)

No one I know has had a perceptible reaction to a vaccine, Kate. She didn't react to any of her other vaccines, either. And we don't have any allergies that I know of. It's so weird. And of course I always worry that it was the fever that delayed her speech but that's just jumping to conclusions. I mean we practiced severe CIO at that particular doctor's behest and there are definitely developmental delays connected with that as well.

Melanie - posted on 09/27/2011

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I just want to point out two things. (first let me say that my kids have had their MMR). First, doctors don't necessarily know more about the MMR vaccine or autism than a well-informed consumer. Medical school does not have a class on vaccines or anything special. Second, I believe Dr. Wakefield (who got into so much trouble for supposedly claiming a link between MMR and autism) was only reporting his finding of the MMR virus in the GI tract of his autistic patients who had very severe bowel issues. That's all. He never said MMR causes autism.

My son did have a fever after getting his MMR and a lymph node on the back of his head swelled up. I have been hyper-vigilent about watching for neurological changes in my kids after vaccines; none so far that I can detect.

Doris - posted on 09/27/2011

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The MMR shot is VERY important. My best friend did not believe in vaccination. Her son came down with a very bad case of measles. He recovered from the measles, but was diabetic for the rest of his life. They have never proved the shot causes autisim, but they have proved measles especially are dangerous.

Jenni - posted on 09/27/2011

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Lisa, I'd shop around for a new doctor if it's possible. But I imagine he can't say "yes it was the vaccine' if he really didn't know if it was or wasn't.



I have a love/hate relationship with my doctor. He is highly hollistic. Which is great in some aspects. He's very honest and he prefers naturopathic remedies over prescriptions. He does support vaccination but is not too keen on the increasing vaccine schedule.



But one downfall to a naturopathic doctor is he absolutely refuses to send us to specialists most times and refuses to write prescriptions unless *he* deems them absolutely necessary. I guess that's a good fit for me though, because I hate taking medication and avoid it at all costs.

Kate CP - posted on 09/27/2011

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Lisa: I would say that yes, there is a possibility that your daughter had a reaction to the vaccine. Does vaccine reaction run in your family? I would consult an immunologist or an allergist and talk to them about further vaccines before she gets more shots.

I am *very* pro-vaccine. But some kids just CANNOT get them because of reactions. These are NOT side effects, but an allergic reaction to the additives used in vaccines to make them shelf-stable. If you think your child had a vaccine reaction or is at risk of having a vaccine reaction I would talk to a specialist before vaccinating any further. That's just being safe.

Minnie - posted on 09/27/2011

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I asked the doctor if the vaccine could have caused it and they quickly brushed me off saying that it wasn't. But no other explanation offered. At the time I wasn't one to question doctors.



Overall she's a very healthy child- that was the last 'sickness' she's ever had. She hasn't had the second booster due to that reaction- I worry about a future reaction. Though she's five and a half now, so perhaps it wouldn't be as severe?



Thankfully she didn't have seizures. She is a little delayed in her speech, but I don't know if that would be attributed to it at all.

Jenni - posted on 09/27/2011

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Lisa, that is the one disconcerting aspect of the MMR. Is the risk for high fevers. The high fever that can be brought on by the MMR is what is linked to seizures.



In 5-15% of children who receive the MMR a fever exceeding 103 F is a side effect.



I'm not sure about the duration of a high fever. I've heard the fever can last up to a week.



The rash, in itself is nothing to be concerned about. It's a fairly common side effect (1/5 children will experience it).



But yes the high fever and especially the duration your daughter experienced is concerning. It's the high fever the MMR can bring on that is attributed to serious (but mind you, extremely rare) side effects like brain swelling, deafness, convulsions, febrile seizures etc.



What caused her to have a more serious reaction? Possibly an allergy, weakened immune system from an unknown cause?



Did you ask her pediatrician about it? What did doctor's say? I imagine you would have sought professional advice for her with a fever that high and for that long.



But I do feel that what she experienced is still within the normal range of side effects but definitely on the more severe side of the spectrum.

Minnie - posted on 09/27/2011

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I admit to not being very knowledgeable about vaccines. When my first had her MMR she developed a fever averaging 104 about three days after the shot- and it maintained that high for about ten days, with vomiting and lethargy. When the fever broke she was covered in a rash.

We had blood work done for bacterial causes but they didn't persue it any further.

What do you ladies think? Jodi, Kate?

Jenni - posted on 09/27/2011

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The medical secretary at my children's doctors *always* recommends and reminds me to give my children tylenol before immunizations. Especially, the MMR. But I never took her advice. Mother's intuition? I don't know. But I never gave children's tylenol or advil before an immunization.



My first two children have never had a reaction to *any* immunization... maybe a bit cranky and sleepy but not even a fever. So I never had to give them tylenol even after an immunization.



My youngest is the only one who experienced side effects after the MMR. But common side effects. A rash 5 days after the first shot and a low grade fever for 24 hours (100.3 F). So I did give her tylenol to ensure her fever didn't get too high. But it never exceeded 100.3 F.



And I second Jodi, Mercola is a quack.

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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@ Stacey, is that Dr Mercola, the OSTEOPATH, as opposed to being a MEDICAL doctor? The one whose website is not only riddled with articles about how bad vaccines are and you are better off purchasing his vitamins, but also riddled with articles that everything in the world is bad for you and you need to buy his vitamins, just click here to purhcase? The Dr Mercola who has been officially warned for violation of US marketing laws (false claims and all that). The Dr Mercola who claims HIV is harmless? The Dr Mercola who strongly encourages the ingestion of saturated fats in the diet? THAT Dr Mercola?

Um, yeah......ok.

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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But RECENT research indicates otherwise and it is now no longer recommended in general. That's all we were pointing out. Maybe your *practitioners* don't always keep up with the most recent research in every area of medicine (because that would be an awful lot to keep up with). But you keep UHMMMMMing, that's fine. Your choice. However, feel free to read that research article I posted, because it always pays to educate ourselves.

Joni - posted on 09/27/2011

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The pre- medications that my girls recieve are recommendations of a Board Certified Family Practioner, a second opinion from Board Certified Pediatrician and two Nurse Practioers one who works for the Public Health Department. UHMMMMM !!!

Jodi - posted on 09/27/2011

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Well, technically, if you have wireless internet and are not wearing protective clothing.......you are probably absolutely correct Amanda!!

Amanda - posted on 09/27/2011

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I finally figured it out, the internet is the most dangerous thing to our childrens health! :0)

Jenni - posted on 09/27/2011

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In 2009 my province banned many pesticides and other products in the strictest ban in the country. Banning over 80 ingredients and 250 products. (Including weed killer).

If I am going to put my money in one basket of *what is one of the greatest contributors to Autism* I'm going to go with use of pesticides.

So we'll have to wait and see what sort of effects this ban will have. Or if this ban is enough to make a substantial and noticeable difference in health.

"Experts, such as the Ontario College of Family Physicians, have warned that the long-term effects of exposure to pesticides can be devastating, especially to pregnant women and children."

http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/arti...

Charlie - posted on 09/27/2011

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Well people like to have something to blame dont they and that is understandable however since that quack who was debunked released his falsified documents on vaccination and autism put the word out parents everywhere have had the MMR shot to lean on however autism is complex , mostly genetic and the symptoms have been known to to progressively worsen from infancy and then stablise somewhere along the spectrum ...whether it is denial or just plain and simple not noticing often small signs are recognisable before the vaccination.
Autism is most likely to become apparent around the age MMR is given yes .....it also becomes apparent in children around that age who DONT recieve vaccinations , correlation is not causation.

MMR shots no longer contain thermisol which is what the original worry was with the " MMR = Autism " crowd.

Nikki - posted on 09/27/2011

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I just remembered the other reason I was told not to medicate beforehand. I spoke with a immunisation specialist when Issy was a baby because of family reactions, he said aside from making the vaccines less effective it can mask the beginning of serious symptoms with children who may have an allergic reaction.

Stifler's - posted on 09/26/2011

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My kid have never needed it. Renae got her needles today actually. I'll never understand why it's a huge deal to people.

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