what can i do if 4year old askng me to hide him so dad not take him away

Isobell - posted on 04/21/2011 ( 200 moms have responded )

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sons been liven with dad as dad took him boxing day even though i vist him and try to keep things normal my boy becomes very upset when i leave and dad plls him off me and locks the car doors so he cant get out son is upset for days and wont talk to me on the phone i to call back for few days then he talks to me but now hes saying hes going to wait until dad is asleep and jumpout the window and stuff dads due to come get him in few days ive tried talking to his dad but he says he cant live without him,please what can i do its very upsetting

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Mary - posted on 04/26/2011

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I think I would call one of the agencies to intervene. This cannot be a healthy situation for a young child. He needs freedom to choose and he is not dealing with living with dad obviously and being without mom.

Tanisha - posted on 04/26/2011

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Cynthia- I can agree with that. I think neither are handling it the correct way. They are both reacting to the child's behavior instead of setting ground rules and like I said if Mommy feels there is a problem she needs to take care of it if they can't get this problem under control then neither should have the kids. It seem to me this was a sudden decision not well planned out. We don't know the whole story I am an optimistic person so I can't think the worst first. What I see are two people not communicating to come up with a plan that would be best for all involved.

Jenn - posted on 04/26/2011

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Sorry, I wasn't saying to just run and hide. I contacted a lawyer before I ever even left. I believe I did already say to get a lawyer. My ex tried to have me charged with kidnapping. Know what the cops did? Laugh at him. It's only kidnapping if the father has legal custody and you take him. If any one of you felt that your child was in danger, wouldn't you keep them away until a legal decision was made? I sure as F&#* would! No way in hell would I let my child go into a potentially dangerous situation. I think a judge would look at you badly if you allowed the child to go into a potentially bad situation - not if you tried to protect them. Sorry. And if you let the child stay with the father, who do you think the courts will grant custody to? The main care provider - who would be the father if he has the child. Get a lawyer NOW, and keep your son safe.

Cynthia - posted on 04/26/2011

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Tanisha...there may not be any physical abuse going on, but there is emotional abuse. And those scars run deep, trust me. If dad is telling son the same thing ("I can't live without him. I miss him too much."...etc) that is emotional blackmail. It doesn't matter so much that the child is pitching a fit; he's 4 and he's going to react with passion; BUT it does matter how the dad is handling it. Ripping the boy out of his mother's arms and locking him in the car is inappropriate. Hence my suggestion for family counseling. Dad is making the problem much worse. It was very dificult for my son when his father and I divorced. But we both made it clear to him that he could contact or visit the other parent at any time. He tested that theory for a couple of months, then settled into a regular routine of visitation with both of us. Now he rarely request to change the parent "in charge today." (That's how he phrases it, because we've also had to stress the fact that there are different rules at different homes.)

Tanisha - posted on 04/26/2011

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I don't get the impression of abuse maybe I miss that post. I think a lot of you are taking this to the extreme. Kids will say anything to get what they want. He may have seen the movie I Am Sam and got the idea from there a mother should and would know if her child was being abused. I you feel the child is in danger then nothing can stop you from taking that child out of that situation, if this is a case of mommy not wanting to see her baby cry keep him with you or figure out a way to get over it. I my kids father wanted our boys to live with him if we were not together more power to you take them, as long as I can see and keep them when I want to. Don't get me wrong but it is rare when a father is ready to take on such a big responsibility. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a father wanting to keep his kids. If the the situation were reversed and your child was having fits when it was time for you to take them home would you feel the father should call the police on you. NO. She is his mother and he wants her but you have to help him realize he lives with dad now and if this is not what you want then change it.

Cynthia - posted on 04/26/2011

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The most important thing that jumped out at me: Your son says he will jump out a window to get away from his dad. That is a huge red flag. I assume you have an attorney; make sure the attorney the child is threatening actions that could potentially be harmful to him. That should warrent an emergency hearing on the situation. You might also consider telling his father that you are concerned about his reaction and would like to try FAMILY counseling with all of you to help your son accept the situation. If he cares about his son, he will want to help him deal with it in a healthy manner. If he refuses counseling...well that's one more thing to use in court.

Cindy - posted on 04/26/2011

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You are saying the same point I am trying to make. The kidnapping stuff is irrelevant in my opinion...I'm not suggesting she run off and go into hiding like THE FATHER DID, I'm saying to protect the child with other people's guidance...lawyers, child protection, doctors, etc...

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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Since the child has been living with the father she could possibly be arrested for kidnapping. She won't do much good to her son in prison =( All I'm expressing is that she needs an intervention with experts so that they can support and help her. She has now called the father and alerted him to her intent...with NO legal protection and no restraining orders, etc.

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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@Cindy, I agree if she feels she and her child are in danger then neither one should see the father until the court decides. However, there is a legal way to go about it to protect her and her son. By calling child protective services and stating that she believes her child is in immediate danger, they can remove the child, place him in her custody, and do a protective order for the child that away if he comes on her property and calls the cops then they will remove him. If there is no order by the courts they will not be able to do much for her and if the father decides to come over and take his son back then there is nothing they can do. They will ask her who the child has been living with and he and his sister have been living with the father. I would be interested to learn what the 12 year old has stated about the situation since I'm assuming the mother talks to her as well. It is important that she does it the "right" way so that she and her son are protected and the cops have permission from the courts to intervene immediately otherwise it could become a very dangerous situation if the father is violent.

Tanisha - posted on 04/26/2011

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I understand what you r saying ladies, but I have a 4 & 5 year old I think this is a case of mommy's boy missing mommy, he is only 4 and no one can replace that. While kids love dad mommy os always better. Call him at bedtime read him a story then call him in the morning to wake him up. Don't worry about him not wanting to talk on the phone no 4yr old boy does. Mine went away for a month I they barely spoke to me for more than s min a day. before it is time for him to go home perp him and let him know you will be calling later with his bedtime story and let him pick what he wants to here

Cindy - posted on 04/26/2011

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Keeping a child from the other parent (temporarily, until a court decides) in this circumstance based on the statements the mother has already made.....Let's recap...."I'm scared of him", "He's run off with children in the past", "He rips the child from mom's arms and leaves with him", "He locks the car doors, and ignores the 4 yr olds requests for mom", "The 4 yr old wants mom to hide him from dad", "The child wants to jump out the window when dad's asleep" GOOD GRIEF!!!!!! In my opinion, the father is disprepecting the child and the mother's rights, and I would not call it alienation to protect you child. The mother would have good reason for doing so, and it would not take long to get some sort of intermediate order or an appt. with someone for guidance. I would protect my child at all costs just like Jenn Morris did, and I am pretty sure the mother has enough very good reason to do so.

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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And apparently she has taken some of the advice already because she called him earlier after talking to us and told her she was keeping the son and now the father is mad. Am I reading her post wrong? Before doing anything mentioned here I can't stress how important it is to call child protective services or someone that can really help her.

OhJessie - posted on 04/26/2011

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How horrible :( I'm so sorry; I have no advice, but I wish you all the best.

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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When the 4 year old threatens to jump out a window the police need to be called, period. I don't understand why she is hesitating calling the police and getting the ball rolling to help him immediately. This is not a sit and wait type of situation :(

[deleted account]

Maybe we should state the obvious. Every state has it's own laws regarding children. Find out the requirements and establish legal custody for your children. Many states it is almost a whoever files first gets custody and then you go to court to establish visitation, support and guidelines. It is never good to separate without a legal document. I am fighting back tears, a 4 year old says he will jump out the window at his fathers place?! HELLO! Major alarms going off!! OMG who does this poor child have looking out for his best interests?

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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keeping a child from a parent IS alienation. Look it up. I have been through a case with parents alienating the child from another and it could definitely cause you to lose custody. Once the judge gives custody it is VERY hard to turn around. Don't do anything that will jeopardize your custody.

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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@Maxine, understood but we are telling her what the courts will and will not care about, we are telling her to hide her child, we are telling her to take him and tell the father that he can't see him until court, all this information is given to her and I just want her to understand that before doing any of this she needs to see a professional to guide her for what is best in her situation and not to take any advice from us without doing so.

Jennifer - posted on 04/26/2011

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I can not stress enough how illegal it is for a parent to keep a child from the other parent. It will be considered kid napping and you will go to jail and you can loose any custody of the child. I have seen this personally a few times. Involve other services if you need to, but go about it the right way. I have no clue what the whole story is here, or why you let dad have physical custody to begin with, but in all fairness, lets not all assume dad is some monster and is doing something wrong !

Maxine - posted on 04/26/2011

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@Samantha, none of us are claiming to be professionals. This is a board called "circle of moms" and the poster knew that before she posted....so no need to state the obvious!

[deleted account]

something is very very WRONG! Trust your instincts, please! There are child and family services in every county that can evaluate him and the situation. Do not hesitate to protect your son. PLEASE!

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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We do not know the full history of the father, by giving her advice to hide and take the child, it may cause the father to retaliate and something horrible could result. What about the daughter? What if she hides with the son and he hurts the daughter to get back at her? What if he finds her and his son and hurts them? I for one would not want to be responsible for giving someone advice that leads to their being severely harmed or killed because they did not consult professionals and just listened to Mom's speaking from the heart =( I am a mother as well and my first reaction has/was the same as many of you but to truly be helpful in a situation like this it is important that she understands that none of us claim to be professionals and that our advice should not be taken without speaking to a professional first.

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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@Jenn, I was told differently by a child psychologist for abused children. It is okay to ask general questions, such as, "Did you have fun at your dad's?" "What did you do while you were there?" etc. I would leave it up to the psychologist to ask more detailed questions about possible abusive situations. However, if you ask your child how his week went or what kind of things did he do while gone and the child opens up on his own then that is okay. I'm speaking from my own personal experience and educational background, not personal feelings. I think speaking from the heart, as a parent, to someone you don't truly know their situation may cause more harm then good. She needs to speak to a professional.

LAURA - posted on 04/26/2011

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I agree. i did the same. i wouldnt allow him in and ai stayed at a friends house so he couldnt find me.

LAURA - posted on 04/26/2011

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dont let him do that. I was in the same situation. I found out my children were being abused. I got a protective order against him. He couldnt hae contact with my children. U need to get him into counseling and tell dad until you go to court he is not to see the child without you there. You need to tell him the child will stay with you. As a mother we have to protect our children. dont let him do this.

Jenn - posted on 04/26/2011

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Samantha - if your child is showing fear of the other parent, there is nothing wrong with asking questions. The court will not think anything of it - there is no reason you can't ask your children a simple question, nobody is saying that she should grill her son, or "interrogate him". It's also not alienating the other parent to keep the child with you while you wait for the court to make a decision regarding custody.

Heather - posted on 04/26/2011

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I can understand being scared, but your son is more important then your fear. With no legal paperwork done, and a history of the father previously taking children away, I would lock the doors and call the police. This man does not have the right to do any of this without legal consent. I hope you figure out what you're doing soon, so this little boy doesn't need to keep suffering.

Samantha - posted on 04/26/2011

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It is not okay to ask detailed questions of your son about his father and his relationship, the courts may think you are "feeding" him stuff. It is not okay according to the courts to alienate another parent, they frown on this. If you feel your child is being physically harmed in any way then you need to contact Department of Social Services and they will investigate. My recommendation stands on the counseling, you do not have to have his father's permission to do that and there will be a record of his mental health and the situation with the therapist that will be considered in court. She said/He said is not going to do anything but upset the judge and you go to a mediator before you even get to court and the court usually sides with the mediator. Do not interrogate your child, you may do more harm then good. If you fear his safety contact your local police department to fill out a report and contact Social Services immediately. If you fear for your own safety, contact a Faith House or Womens Shelter immediately. A Faith House will also put you in contact with everyone you need to help you along the way for you and your son.

Cindy - posted on 04/26/2011

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Hey Isobell! You need to get a back bone NOWWWWW!!!!! The next time you have your son, KEEP HIM!!!!! There is not a person in this world, including the police, that can take your son from you!!! I know this! The police cannot take a child from one parent and give that child to the other parent without a court order!! You can keep him until a court order is made! and I would be doing just that if you are putting the best interest of your child first! DO NOT LET THE FATHER TAKE HIM AGAIN!!! If you dont have a lawyer, GET ONE NOW, and have your lawyer send him letter telling him that you will be keeping him until further asssessment can be made based on your son's concerns. DO IT!!! You are doing your son a great injustice by not fighting for him NOW! Don't just do what the father says! That is ridiculeous! If you continue letting your son stay with his father, it will be very damaging in court for you to convince them that he is better off with you!! The father isn't even home for 10 hr out of the day! He has a hired nanny!?!?!?!??! YOU ARE THE MOTHER!!!!!!

Jennifer - posted on 04/26/2011

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So your daughter lives with dad too. I don't know many mothers who willing let their children go live with their dad. you need yo get your son home now. you said you think the father would run with him, he could do this if you have full custody too. Good luck getting full custody, why should the court give you your kids if you let them go? This whole thing is weird.

Jenn - posted on 04/26/2011

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Tracy - she said she lets him in her house - so yes she is letting him. When I left my ex, I hid. I moved where he didn't know I was and parked my car behind the house. I had a cell phone that he knew nothing of, and changed babysitters. That's how you don't "let" him take the kid. Protecting me and my son was of the utmost importance, and I did what I had to do to do that.

Jenn - posted on 04/26/2011

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Tracy - she said she lets him in her house - so yes she is letting him. When I left my ex, I hid. I moved where he didn't know I was and parked my car behind the house. I had a cell phone that he knew nothing of, and changed babysitters. That's how you don't "let" him take the kid. Protecting me and my son was of the utmost importance, and I did what I had to do to do that.

LAURA - posted on 04/26/2011

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If he is acting this way than something is wrong. You need to follow your heart. The dad will say what he wants to keep him.

Linda - posted on 04/26/2011

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I would have a family meeting with the boy and the dad together....and both question as to why the boy doesnt want to stay with dad..very gingerly of course....and if feasible...have dad stay for a visit so you can observe......is there a small problem which dad can resolve...or is it something more serious........if he MUST go per say...I would try to have a counselor figure out why....if it is severe..I would have dad back off until you all can reach a FIX for the problem.......it should all be analyzed for sure...........

Becki - posted on 04/26/2011

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You need to seek legal advice and see what your rights are. An attorney (and there are places for free advice) can give you guidance that won't send you backwards in your fight for custody. There are many variables, such as: How long dad has had him? Is there a history of abuse? If so, was it reported? What happened when he ran off with his other child? Were the authorities involved? Do you have the finances and means to care for the child? And the list goes on...talk to an attorney or someone in family court and do it asap. Good luck! This is really sad, and it has to be very hard for you to deal with on a regular basis.

Alicia - posted on 04/26/2011

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Also sounds like something is going on at dads, maybe. Maybe try some family consuling (sp) to see if the doc can figure something out too

Alicia - posted on 04/26/2011

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revisit court. The child obviously wants to be with you and is always a good thing to do 50/50 custody. My daughter was the same way when her dad and i did 50/50 at first (I had her all the time) now she is adjusted and thriving! I'd look into it. Your son needs u!

Alicia - posted on 04/26/2011

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revisit court. The child obviously wants to be with you and is always a good thing to do 50/50 custody. My daughter was the same way when her dad and i did 50/50 at first (I had her all the time) now she is adjusted and thriving! I'd look into it. Your son needs u!

Tracy - posted on 04/26/2011

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@ Jenn Morris -

Just as the mother doesn't have to let him take the child until there is court ordered paperwork, the dad has the legal right to take him, whether it is from school, daycare, etc. If he is the birth parent, and is on the birth certificate, the police will not get involved because it's a civil matter, and there is nothing she can do without proof of abuse, etc. It has nothing to do with her letting him. Maybe she never "let" him in the first place.

Tracy - posted on 04/26/2011

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What a lot of you don't realize is that while the mother doesn't have to "let" the father take the son, the father CAN take the son, if he is on the birth certificate and he has a valid I.D. The father can get them at daycare, and daycare, while even if they have instructions not to let the child go with someone, if the someone can prove they are the father, they can do nothing to legally get in the way unless there is a restraining order. My advice to you, Isobell, would be one of two things. Either wait paitiently if you do have court proceedings in the process, or if you do not have the proceedings started yet, take the boy, and refuse to give him back. Just like you can do nothing to the father, he can do nothing to you. Only then, you go and you get a restraining order that way he can no longer take him from school and or daycare. Keep the restraining order in place until you can get full physical custody of him. If you do not want to keep him from his dad, either, you can get a restraining order temporarily, that will enforce visitations. It's quicker than waiting for full custody, and at least this way you get guaranteed visitations, or he'll go to jail.

Jennifer - posted on 04/26/2011

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small children tend to want mom. and even though its a visit with dad, someone who also loves him and wants to spend time with him, the child can get very upset about being separated from mom. I would suggest talking positive about dad and the visit with dad. prepare him on the visit days. talk about it the night before and the day of, about how daddy is comming to see him. have dad spend a few minutes with you and son at your house before he takes him. let the boy call you or you call him and talk even for a min on the phone. try taking turns picking up or droping off. The child has feelings of anxiety and anger and he will have to work thru it. Its not fair to ask dad to step out of his life. work it out for your son. It will get better and he will out grow it. oh, and maybe go to lunch together so he can see the two of you interacting in a civil manner, before dad goes off with him............

Mommy - posted on 04/26/2011

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Clair, I completely agree. And that is what I saying before. This story makes no sense because you ocntradict yoruself. You say you are fearful of him, he has taken children and run off with them before, and are scared for yourself and your son, yet you let his father walk in and out of the house snatching up kids as he sees fit. If you aren't going to take a stand then what's the point of posting on here?

Sheri - posted on 04/26/2011

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Post a reply! you should take him to a physcologist because it is not normal that he is that afraid of his dad. something bad is probably going on that he is too scared to talk you about. sorry but I really believe that

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