Why is it a problem that babies don' t sleep through the night as adults define it?

Tamara - posted on 06/04/2009 ( 295 moms have responded )

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I see so many posts about how their baby or toddler won't sleep completely through the night as defined by an adult even though babies and toddlers are designed to wake frequently to nurse, seek comfort, etc. I'm just having a hard time how seeing how a a baby obeying its biological imperative is a problem of some kind. Can anyone explain the logic in trying to get a baby/toddler to sleep longer than they are designed to do?

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Betsy - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Jenifer:

Betsy - I was just curious, since you seem pretty knowledgeable on the subject, but I had thought that CO2 poisoning and SIDS would typically be classified as two different causes of death. I assumed SIDS was a death with no known cause, whereas suffocation has a distinct pathology. Is the difference not so dramatic, or are some cases just labeled SIDS with no autopsy?



They aren't classified as different causes of death. They have just connected in recent years that many SIDS deaths, where no other cause or issue was found, may have been due to CO2 poisoning. It is only in recent years, with that connection, that they are testing CO2 levels.  That is a huge breakthrough is making SIDS a thing of the past because for so long they had no reasoning, only questions and parents with no answers. Now they do, and it is a wonderful thing. There is a clear difference between suffocation, where no air is getting in and was able to be determined easily, and CO2 poisoning, where air is being inhaled, just the wrong make-up of air and at fatal levels.

Emily - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Betsy:

The state of Massachusetts actually isn't a warning against co-sleeping after 31 babies died in one year, in their parents' bed. The issue wasn't rolling on them, but when they are facing someone or a pillow, just like stomach sleeping, the area in which they breath is limited. They rebreathe from the air which they are exhaling, which is high levels of carbon dioxide. Just like with my friend's 4 mo old son, his CO2 levels were fatal, that is what they are finding with cases of SIDS. In her case, she didn't even co-sleep, but her husband worked nights. The baby woke, and she brought him in bed with her just until her husband came home an hour later. When he came in that hour later, the baby was gone due to SIDS/CO2 poisonong, as he lied on his side, facing his mom.

A big factor is the arcuate nucleus in the infants brainstem might not be developed at birth in all kids. That is what signals to the brain O2 levels are down and CO2 levels are getting dangerous. It happens with us nightly. I am sure we all have rolled over in our sleep, feeling like we need more air, or taken a blanket off our heads. That is the arcuate nucleus at work, signally us to get more oxygen and that we are getting high levels of carbon dioxide. In an infant, they either can't move yet to get more air, or in the case of an undeveloped arcuate nuclues, nothing is signalling them to even wake them. As of now, development of that important area of the brainstem can't be tested, but they are working on it, which would be wonderful for it to be a routine test to make parents aware their child is at high risk of SIDS, and it being completely preventable.

Not co-sleeping and placing children on their backs has dramatically reduced SIDS deaths when followed. Another tip that has been recommended for those who don't want to follow recommendations, and as an extra step for those who do, is placing a fan in the room where the child sleeps, which aids in circulating the air. Just a fan going in the corner helps that air to circulate room-wide. The white noise from the fan also does help many to sleep better, as we know white noise helps many to sleep. It's just an extra aid until the child might be able to get out of the crib, where a standing fan would be a safety hazrd, but by that time, risk of SIDS, lack of movement and development of the arcute nucleus are not issues of concerns anymore.


Thank you soooo much! It concerns me that so many parents think is ok to sleep in the same bed as there child!!! I know to each there own, but a lot of children die in the beds of there parents due to suffication or being rolled over onto. I personally slept in the same bed as my son once, and that was because he was sick and i will never do it again.. i didnt sleep the whole entire night!

Emily - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Betsy:

The state of Massachusetts actually isn't a warning against co-sleeping after 31 babies died in one year, in their parents' bed. The issue wasn't rolling on them, but when they are facing someone or a pillow, just like stomach sleeping, the area in which they breath is limited. They rebreathe from the air which they are exhaling, which is high levels of carbon dioxide. Just like with my friend's 4 mo old son, his CO2 levels were fatal, that is what they are finding with cases of SIDS. In her case, she didn't even co-sleep, but her husband worked nights. The baby woke, and she brought him in bed with her just until her husband came home an hour later. When he came in that hour later, the baby was gone due to SIDS/CO2 poisonong, as he lied on his side, facing his mom.

A big factor is the arcuate nucleus in the infants brainstem might not be developed at birth in all kids. That is what signals to the brain O2 levels are down and CO2 levels are getting dangerous. It happens with us nightly. I am sure we all have rolled over in our sleep, feeling like we need more air, or taken a blanket off our heads. That is the arcuate nucleus at work, signally us to get more oxygen and that we are getting high levels of carbon dioxide. In an infant, they either can't move yet to get more air, or in the case of an undeveloped arcuate nuclues, nothing is signalling them to even wake them. As of now, development of that important area of the brainstem can't be tested, but they are working on it, which would be wonderful for it to be a routine test to make parents aware their child is at high risk of SIDS, and it being completely preventable.

Not co-sleeping and placing children on their backs has dramatically reduced SIDS deaths when followed. Another tip that has been recommended for those who don't want to follow recommendations, and as an extra step for those who do, is placing a fan in the room where the child sleeps, which aids in circulating the air. Just a fan going in the corner helps that air to circulate room-wide. The white noise from the fan also does help many to sleep better, as we know white noise helps many to sleep. It's just an extra aid until the child might be able to get out of the crib, where a standing fan would be a safety hazrd, but by that time, risk of SIDS, lack of movement and development of the arcute nucleus are not issues of concerns anymore.


Thank you soooo much! It concerns me that so many parents think is ok to sleep in the same bed as there child!!! I know to each there own, but a lot of children die in the beds of there parents due to suffication or being rolled over onto. I personally slept in the same bed as my son once, and that was because he was sick and i will never do it again.. i didnt sleep the whole entire night!

Mel - posted on 06/10/2009

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oh and to Jenifer some babies are labelled as dying of SIDS with no autopsy but i know of cases where they have had one done and found out there were other reasons the baby died not SIDS like one one case the baby was born with some kind of disease something where the baby will die shortly after birth my cousin told me it was her friend so i dont know much about it. she said to me she wishes she had an autopsy done on her son now

Mel - posted on 06/10/2009

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Quoting Betsy:

The state of Massachusetts actually isn't a warning against co-sleeping after 31 babies died in one year, in their parents' bed. The issue wasn't rolling on them, but when they are facing someone or a pillow, just like stomach sleeping, the area in which they breath is limited. They rebreathe from the air which they are exhaling, which is high levels of carbon dioxide. Just like with my friend's 4 mo old son, his CO2 levels were fatal, that is what they are finding with cases of SIDS. In her case, she didn't even co-sleep, but her husband worked nights. The baby woke, and she brought him in bed with her just until her husband came home an hour later. When he came in that hour later, the baby was gone due to SIDS/CO2 poisonong, as he lied on his side, facing his mom.

A big factor is the arcuate nucleus in the infants brainstem might not be developed at birth in all kids. That is what signals to the brain O2 levels are down and CO2 levels are getting dangerous. It happens with us nightly. I am sure we all have rolled over in our sleep, feeling like we need more air, or taken a blanket off our heads. That is the arcuate nucleus at work, signally us to get more oxygen and that we are getting high levels of carbon dioxide. In an infant, they either can't move yet to get more air, or in the case of an undeveloped arcuate nuclues, nothing is signalling them to even wake them. As of now, development of that important area of the brainstem can't be tested, but they are working on it, which would be wonderful for it to be a routine test to make parents aware their child is at high risk of SIDS, and it being completely preventable.

Not co-sleeping and placing children on their backs has dramatically reduced SIDS deaths when followed. Another tip that has been recommended for those who don't want to follow recommendations, and as an extra step for those who do, is placing a fan in the room where the child sleeps, which aids in circulating the air. Just a fan going in the corner helps that air to circulate room-wide. The white noise from the fan also does help many to sleep better, as we know white noise helps many to sleep. It's just an extra aid until the child might be able to get out of the crib, where a standing fan would be a safety hazrd, but by that time, risk of SIDS, lack of movement and development of the arcute nucleus are not issues of concerns anymore.


 



 



omg finally someone who talks some sense on the issue and has done thier home work. it was really helpful to me ill remember it with my next bubba thanks

[deleted account]

Betsy - I was just curious, since you seem pretty knowledgeable on the subject, but I had thought that CO2 poisoning and SIDS would typically be classified as two different causes of death. I assumed SIDS was a death with no known cause, whereas suffocation has a distinct pathology. Is the difference not so dramatic, or are some cases just labeled SIDS with no autopsy?

Andrea - posted on 06/10/2009

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I don't think that it is wrong for older babies or toddlers to sleep through the night. My daughter was a preemie (10 weeks early and had a low birth weight) we had to wake up about 3 to 4 hours to feed her, the older she got the bigger the feedings the longer the sleep. My daughter started to sleep through the night (between 6 to 8 hours) around 10 months but sometimes still gets up for a bottle. I am not a breast feeding mom due to her prematurely and refusal of the breast (pumped breast milk for 6 months) and we are not co-sleepers but she did sleep in the same room until about 11 months. Now at 14 months if she wakes up even a 1/2 a hour under 8 hours she will cry for a while, not eat breakfast and I have to calm her down, if she does sleep 8 hours she is happy ready for breakfast and our play time. I let my daughter set her own sleep schedule and I found that if she sleep the way she wants that she is a very happy little girl.

Betsy - posted on 06/10/2009

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The state of Massachusetts actually isn't a warning against co-sleeping after 31 babies died in one year, in their parents' bed. The issue wasn't rolling on them, but when they are facing someone or a pillow, just like stomach sleeping, the area in which they breath is limited. They rebreathe from the air which they are exhaling, which is high levels of carbon dioxide. Just like with my friend's 4 mo old son, his CO2 levels were fatal, that is what they are finding with cases of SIDS. In her case, she didn't even co-sleep, but her husband worked nights. The baby woke, and she brought him in bed with her just until her husband came home an hour later. When he came in that hour later, the baby was gone due to SIDS/CO2 poisonong, as he lied on his side, facing his mom.

A big factor is the arcuate nucleus in the infants brainstem might not be developed at birth in all kids. That is what signals to the brain O2 levels are down and CO2 levels are getting dangerous. It happens with us nightly. I am sure we all have rolled over in our sleep, feeling like we need more air, or taken a blanket off our heads. That is the arcuate nucleus at work, signally us to get more oxygen and that we are getting high levels of carbon dioxide. In an infant, they either can't move yet to get more air, or in the case of an undeveloped arcuate nuclues, nothing is signalling them to even wake them. As of now, development of that important area of the brainstem can't be tested, but they are working on it, which would be wonderful for it to be a routine test to make parents aware their child is at high risk of SIDS, and it being completely preventable.

Not co-sleeping and placing children on their backs has dramatically reduced SIDS deaths when followed. Another tip that has been recommended for those who don't want to follow recommendations, and as an extra step for those who do, is placing a fan in the room where the child sleeps, which aids in circulating the air. Just a fan going in the corner helps that air to circulate room-wide. The white noise from the fan also does help many to sleep better, as we know white noise helps many to sleep. It's just an extra aid until the child might be able to get out of the crib, where a standing fan would be a safety hazrd, but by that time, risk of SIDS, lack of movement and development of the arcute nucleus are not issues of concerns anymore.

Emily - posted on 06/10/2009

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I agree that infants should not be expected to sleep. I had a child that i had to wake up every two hours to feed, and had to do this for a month due to a loss of weight in the hospital.. which at this point became a habit for him and i continued this until he was 5 months old and his pedi. told me to start weening his feeding as he didn't need to be fed that much. I continued to wake up with a very unhappy little boy looking for his bottle until he was 8 months old.. because i refused to let him cry a little despite what my pedi suggested to me since he was getting up for playtime and not because he actually needed something.. from the time i allowed him to cry for 5 mins.. then i'd check on him.. then let him cry for 10 mins.. and check on him and so on.. He has slept a full 12 hours.. and is a much happier baby! I don't think its fair for others to disapprove of mothers who would like a little sleep.. Everyone is going to do what they feel is in the best interest for there own families. Do i think letting a 5 week old baby cry for hours acceptable, No... But by the time they are 6 or 7 months old letting them cry a little and learn to self sooth is acceptable.. Doing this doesn't make me a bad or lazy mom. It just makes me a mom that is teaching my son that he doesn't need me every time he wakes up. And i know some moms have said that we expect them to sleep later because we stay up well, in my case that is a very wrong statement.. my son goes to sleep at 8.. and i go to bed at 9.. It all has to do with people's different beliefs.

[deleted account]

This is a great point Tamara - I think the more we fight the "sleeping" issues and accept that babies need more frequent feeds (sorry you cannot compare a baby/toddler to an adult 'Betsy Betsy'). Babies are growing and developing rapidly and need more nourishment. Breastmilk also digests quick, and therefore needs to be replenished. I think it comes down to, who's schedule are we trying to control and for the convenience of whom? Babies come into our lives and shake things up - for the better I think. If parents think they should be getting all their sleep first and foremost - don't have children! When babies cry and rebel against nap time/bedtime - there is usually a reason for it. Understand that babies are wired completely different from adults and are constantly learning about the world around them, ecspecially how we react to what they do - ie. forcing a schedule that does not agree with babe = crying, upset babies and frustrated parents.

I follow my 7mo's lead and she has developed her own sleeping "routine" if you will. My husband get enough sleep and have a happy child.

I have worked with many familes (as a birth & postpartum doula and Breastfeeding Counsellor) for 7 years and see similar patterns that we must conform children to what 'we' are doing or what 'we' need - babies have needs to and listening and following their leads can make everything run a lot more smoothly.

Kimberly - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Vanessa:

Hi Tamara.....i think the big problem is in western culture most people live as single family units, therefore have little to no help in attending to the needs of a baby. One baby with one adult (even 2 adults) can be a strain.......as it really does take a village to raise a child. If parents weren't pushed to the limits during the day time hours through a lack of support from their community.....then maybe they would be better equiped to manage night time needs. Sadly, everyone is too busy doing their own thing and making money to help a woman raise her children.
Western culture holds the ideal of "individualism" and "independence" so high on their list of priorities....that they get confused and think you must teach a tiny child to be independent (when they are totally dependent). Truth is we in the west have much to learn from those who live primative lifestyles in simple kin groups.
And somewhere in the individualist western world......some idiot came up with an idea of how to make a buck and wrote a stupid book on training your child to sleep all night by leaving them alone to "self sooth" (the sugar coated way of saying, leave your child to cry alone, become so distrought that they are abondoned by their caregivers, vomit and fall asleep in a heap of despair and give up on their mother and the human race in general). Fact is there is much money to be made in the western world through convincing tired, unsupported parents their babies and young child should be sleeping all night alone......IE the sales of cots, baby monitors, musical toys, teddy bears with heart beats *oh please!*, those little security blankets, baby sleeping bags, dummies, artificial human milk, bottles, teats, books and "how to train your child to sleep"......the list goes on *sigh*. Marketing giants and formula companies have a lot to answer for. Unfortunately we have had the wool pulled over our eyes for far too long....
i truely believe....if you know better, you do better......and unfortunately solitary sleeping (sleep training, CIO etc) is SO INGRAINED in our culture.
i have educated myself (as you have) on the normal biological needs of babies and physiology of human lactation......and accept my role as a mother. Attending to my childrens needs are made easy through co-sleeping and breastfeeding (the biological expectation of a human infant).........only when more people accept this as normal and stop trying to separate themselves from their children will the BIG sleep issue go away.
Cultures that co-sleep and breastfed as the NORMAL way to parent do not have "problems" with sleep........blah blah blah.....
anyway Tamara, no point preaching to the converted (you already know all this and more).......just wish a few more people would embrace their childrens night time needs.....might make their parenting role a whole lot more enjoyable and their children a little more secure, considerate and empathetic.
enjoy sleeping with you little one......i know i do!!!!
p.s.... i always get a good nights sleep with my little one snuggled up to my breast.....
right where he belongs!
p.p.s....once upon a time a family in my country took a baby camping in the outback, the mother left her baby alone to sleep.......the baby was taken and eaten by a dingo (a wild dog).......proof right there babies are NOT designed to ever be left alone!
Have a good day (and night) everyone! :)


Ok, the whole dingo thing is proof that a newborn should not be left alone when camping! Have you noticed that babies have also died as a result of being crushed in a bed or falling off of an unsecured one?



As far as the formula bit, some women can't lactate, and some, like me, have babies that just could not get enough breast milk. I was so stressed and furthering a lack of milk production by thinking that it had to be breast milk all the time. Finally, my pediatrician practically yelled at me to give my son whatever he needs in order to be full. It ended up being both. I see nothing wrong with this, and I think there are too many people saying that's the only answer to a healthy baby.



My son learned to sleep through the night by being rocked and sung to at night, and then he slept in a bassinet in my room and later, a crib. I was terrified of co-sleeping because I move around so much, and the one time I did it, I got an hour of sleep from being so scared.



Different strokes for different folks, but I think saying only one way is right is somewhat closed-minded.

Tarra - posted on 06/09/2009

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I say do what works best for you and your baby. If you can both function off broken up sleep and the baby NEEDS to eat every 3 hours then so be it. If you need your sleep to provide for your baby and can get your baby on a schedule that help he/she sleep longer through the night then it might benefit both. (After a certain age of course, wouldn't expect that at 1 week) I don't personally think it's a matter of them being designed, I think it's what habits they grow in to and how we influence those habits.

Katt - posted on 06/09/2009

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My daughter luckly has slept threw the night since she was born. She did not have jaundice and we had to wake her to feed her for the first month during the night. After that first month my boyfriend and I were so tierd from getting up every 3 hours to wake her up to feed her, we deceided if she's not waking up we'll let her sleep and ever since then she has slept 10 - 12 hours a night and she is growing perfectly fine infact she's 4 1/2 months and weighs 17lbs! I definitly expected having a baby would include long nights of them up every 3 hours but I do think every baby is different some babies sleep longer than others and I don't think its a biological thing for them to wake up every three hours. Establishing a good sleep pattern is important and having a happy healthy mother is also important for a child so moms getting frustrated that there baby won't sleep for longer than 5 hours I can understant I can't even imagine what thats like to do that for 6 or 7 months. No one expects there newborn baby to sleep threw the night right off the bat!! But after months and months of lack of sleep I can see why parents want there child to sleep threw the night and there is nothing wrong with that.

Ashley - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Ashley:




Quoting Amanda:





Quoting Ashley:






Quoting Amanda:







Quoting Ashley:








Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)















Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.





















oh so you speak for the majority now do you. you know what everyone is thinking.


















I think there are plenty of mom's on here that feel this way. Maybe not how the person feels about you Amanda, but how mom's feel about raising a family, taking care of the household, working, hubby time, in general. and knowing that a good night sleep makes it a hell of a lot easier to do. And that most of the time it is great, but every so often we are tired and overwhelmed and just want and deserve a break. There are plenty of your posts to different threads that imply you are supermom 24 hours a day and do it with a smile to your face...in so many words. Veronica's post just gave us all a little dose of reality, and made us all feel better about the days when we feel worn out.















her whole post was a bitch rant about me. I have never seen such vulger language before.  just nasty I think. so if you say thanks for the post than I guess you agree. Dont try to turn it around. You seem to always have something to say about me ashley, you could not just live and let live as I had asked you long ago.










I never knew being a good mother was a bad thing, researching the decisions for my children I never thought that was a bad thing. like with cio, you say you researched it before you used it well good for you, I also researched it because I have old school grandparents trying to push the method on me. personally I dont agree with the method, if it worked for your kid fine but i know mine would be screaming on end for hours. I do let her cry in bed for up to 5 min or so when i put her down and i always put  her down awake.  she only cries when she is over tired and then she crashes. but back to the point, I did get nasty with bec because of how rude she was not only in this thread but in the thread that she started to bash hard working moms.










I am sorry that some moms cant hold it together almost all the time. I can, and I have had to train myself to do it. I had my first when I was 18 and trust me I was not super mom. I am 24 now and just in the last year I have become much more organized and efficient. I do find the rice ceral in a bottle selfish and that is my opinion. There have been several threads where moms have posted when is it ok to put cereal in a bottle ect, I have never called the moms lazy infact the only thing i say is NEVER, it is never ok because it is a choking hazard.










If you ask me which you probably wont because you have me pegged as a monster, I think veronica (giving her opinion) is just as bad as me if not worse because she is sitting there swearing at me like a trash mouth.










Remember freedom of speech, I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours.












Wow you have issues. Never, ever, in any of my posts have I ever even implied you as a monster! I only agreed with part of the mom's post dealing with the reality of stay at home mom's, which I said. I don't think it is okay to name call, and pass judgement on people, ever, period. I don't agree with a lot of the things this mom called you, I am sorry if I gave that impression. I do think sometimes you come accross as all "holier than thou" and you are so perfect and that is difficult for some mom's to take, especially if they are having a hard time. Most people simply give their opinion and try not to pass too much judgement with it, but you don't. You not only give your opinion, and then some. You seem to not have any empathy or tolerance for anyone else's opinion unless they agree with you. If they don't then you call them selfish and lazy. You say you research all sorts of things before implementing them with your children. I actually have a hard time believing that because if you did you would know that CIO DOES NOT MEAN LEAVING YOUR CHILD IN THEIR BED TO CRY FOR HOURS UNTIL THEY PASS OUT FROM EXHAUSTION. It is not, and if you actually did research the topic you would know that. It's fine if you don't feel comfortable with that method but DO NOT imply that those mothers that do use this method are lazy or selfish, because they are not. And any mom who says that doesn't know much about an baby's neurological development and the reasons behind the crying when they are going to sleep. I have seriously tried giving you the benefit of the doubt as I said earlier I understand you have a lot on your plate right now, but you seem to only want to harp on people if they don't agree with you. And at only 24 years old you still have some growing up to do yourself. Oh and by the way, look above at one of your previous posts...you did call mom's lazy for putting cereal in a bottle (which I don't agree with anyway) and you called parents who try to train their child to sleep a 10-12 hour long stretch selfish. Do your homework! A baby needs to sleep that long (an older infant, not a newborn). For someone who comes accross as a mom who researches everything and lives and breathes motherhood you don't know much about a babies sleep needs. But you seem to think you are the most educated mom on here.  Jeeze, you do have issues.









do not use my age against me. I am not a stat. Why am I not allowed to have an opinion but everyone else can? Please explain it to me. i never called anyone names on here, saying that I think people who put rice cereal in a bottle are lazy is a general statment, I did not single out I was useing that as an example but I guess you were to high and mighty to actually read my posts, you just glanced at them and picked what you liked so you could twist it around and use it against me. Are you not just as guilty by telling me I have issues? Oh and by the way, cereal in a botlle is not an opinion because we are told NEVER PUT CEREAL IN A BOTTLE by our health nurses. I have never heard a doctor or nurse tell me if you want to try cereal in a bottle so YOU can get more rest than go ahead. You also stated that everything I say is a load of crap and now you know it is because of my age. I guess you are suggesting that I am stupid because I am 24. Just because I did not read the studies that you have does not mean I am stupid. I dont agree with CIO I have explained that and I did research it, I talked to my doctor who is also a mother of 4 young kids. I looked up several parenting websites all stating that it is damaging. I am not going to bother quoteing any because you think your right anyway. The only resources I have found stating that cio is good is found in books and sleep training programs...hmm sounds like a way to make a quick buck, lets target sleep deprived mothers into wasteing there money on a bunch of shitty books and programs and make them believe all the crap we shove at them. Well sorry but I am not that gullible. I do my research I just dont believe every bit of trash that is tossed out there by "older wiser mothers" times change ashley, maybe it is time to change with them.





This is the lamest reply ever! Stating your opinion and what works for you and your children is one thing, but you also go on to say people that want their children to do anything BUT what yours do are wrong. You are BEYOND judgemental and narcistic. I am so OVER the back and forth with you. I've decided you are a arrogant, narrowminded, judgemental snob and plan to completely ignore anything else you have to say on here from this day forward.

?? - posted on 06/09/2009

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I don't see it as sacrificing anything for my son. His life is my life. I'm not giving up anything for myself for him, I am doing everything for him. Whether I'm sleeping, eating, laughing, learning, arguing, pooping, watching the grass grow, doing the dishes or the bajillion things I've done since he was concieved, my well being is as much a part of his well being as his well being is part of mine.



I'm one of the "lucky moms" who has a "good sleeper". He loves to sleep and play just like his mommy does. Meaning he sleeps in the same positions I do, and if I go lay on our bed with him and talk to him he will talk back with me and just go to sleep. He has long naps and we play hard when he's awake. We're always playing and so he sleeps really good cause he is / we are incredibly active.



I have put cereal in his bottle - not so that he sleeps longer, but because he needed a lil bit extra. He won't eat cereal on it's own, I have to put a specific amount of fruit in with his cereal for him to eat it. I don't want to open/waste or make more than I have too when I can put, have been told I can put and have been putting 1 tablespoon of cereal into his bottle and mix it up so that the consistency is hardly even remotely different than if it were just formula in there. He also stays awake for about half an hour after his bottle before he goes to sleep and sometimes he has a lil spew before he goes into his crib. There's only three times that he's spit up in his crib and that was when he was younger and he was breast feeding.



He's more than happy, he's ridiculously content and he's gotten the clean bill of health from 7 doctors (the maternity ward here is silly and every pregnant woman sees up to 7 doctors). He's growing, developing, sleeping, pooping, peeing and has only ever gagged with food twice and that was the first time he ever had puree, it was carrots, and he was like what the hell is in my mouth and the first time I gave him puree with meat in it, he was tired and cranky and didn't want it so he gagged and that is it.



Different things work for different moms. Every woman has different needs and so does every baby. I'd like to think that if a mom does something it's for the benefit of her baby... if it's not... well that sucks but its her decision to raise her baby that way and if that baby is happy and healthy, then I don't see why anyone should have an issue with that mom doing whatever she decides to do.

Sara - posted on 06/09/2009

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Since when does being a mother also make you a matyr? I mean, no matter how you choose to parent, whether it involves sleep training, breastfeeding, etc, we all make sacrifices. Just because one person choses to parent one way, whether you agree with it or not, does not mean you sacrifice more than any other mother. This thread is really becoming ridiculous.

Amanda - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Heather:

I just wanted to say thank you for starting this thread! I'm so tired of reading about people expecting their infants to sleep 10 hours straight from the time they're a few months old. I know this may sound harsh, but it seems so selfish to me, which is the opposite of parenthood. I went into it expecting sleep deprivation, for the first year, if not longer. I'm not sure why so many people are convinced babies should be like tiny adults. They don't eat like adults, they don't speak like adults, they don't think like adults and they don't sleep like adults. People seem in such a hurry to have their little ones grow up instead of enjoying the special, only-as-a-baby moments, no matter how trying they may be at times. I wear the bags under my eyes (which have been there for the past 11 months) with pride...most days anyhow ; )


careful with the words selfish. I agree with you and I was called a name caller and told to fuck off.

Amanda - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Ashley:



Quoting Amanda:




Quoting Ashley:





Quoting Amanda:






Quoting Ashley:







Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)













Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.


















oh so you speak for the majority now do you. you know what everyone is thinking.















I think there are plenty of mom's on here that feel this way. Maybe not how the person feels about you Amanda, but how mom's feel about raising a family, taking care of the household, working, hubby time, in general. and knowing that a good night sleep makes it a hell of a lot easier to do. And that most of the time it is great, but every so often we are tired and overwhelmed and just want and deserve a break. There are plenty of your posts to different threads that imply you are supermom 24 hours a day and do it with a smile to your face...in so many words. Veronica's post just gave us all a little dose of reality, and made us all feel better about the days when we feel worn out.












her whole post was a bitch rant about me. I have never seen such vulger language before.  just nasty I think. so if you say thanks for the post than I guess you agree. Dont try to turn it around. You seem to always have something to say about me ashley, you could not just live and let live as I had asked you long ago.








I never knew being a good mother was a bad thing, researching the decisions for my children I never thought that was a bad thing. like with cio, you say you researched it before you used it well good for you, I also researched it because I have old school grandparents trying to push the method on me. personally I dont agree with the method, if it worked for your kid fine but i know mine would be screaming on end for hours. I do let her cry in bed for up to 5 min or so when i put her down and i always put  her down awake.  she only cries when she is over tired and then she crashes. but back to the point, I did get nasty with bec because of how rude she was not only in this thread but in the thread that she started to bash hard working moms.








I am sorry that some moms cant hold it together almost all the time. I can, and I have had to train myself to do it. I had my first when I was 18 and trust me I was not super mom. I am 24 now and just in the last year I have become much more organized and efficient. I do find the rice ceral in a bottle selfish and that is my opinion. There have been several threads where moms have posted when is it ok to put cereal in a bottle ect, I have never called the moms lazy infact the only thing i say is NEVER, it is never ok because it is a choking hazard.








If you ask me which you probably wont because you have me pegged as a monster, I think veronica (giving her opinion) is just as bad as me if not worse because she is sitting there swearing at me like a trash mouth.








Remember freedom of speech, I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours.









Wow you have issues. Never, ever, in any of my posts have I ever even implied you as a monster! I only agreed with part of the mom's post dealing with the reality of stay at home mom's, which I said. I don't think it is okay to name call, and pass judgement on people, ever, period. I don't agree with a lot of the things this mom called you, I am sorry if I gave that impression. I do think sometimes you come accross as all "holier than thou" and you are so perfect and that is difficult for some mom's to take, especially if they are having a hard time. Most people simply give their opinion and try not to pass too much judgement with it, but you don't. You not only give your opinion, and then some. You seem to not have any empathy or tolerance for anyone else's opinion unless they agree with you. If they don't then you call them selfish and lazy. You say you research all sorts of things before implementing them with your children. I actually have a hard time believing that because if you did you would know that CIO DOES NOT MEAN LEAVING YOUR CHILD IN THEIR BED TO CRY FOR HOURS UNTIL THEY PASS OUT FROM EXHAUSTION. It is not, and if you actually did research the topic you would know that. It's fine if you don't feel comfortable with that method but DO NOT imply that those mothers that do use this method are lazy or selfish, because they are not. And any mom who says that doesn't know much about an baby's neurological development and the reasons behind the crying when they are going to sleep. I have seriously tried giving you the benefit of the doubt as I said earlier I understand you have a lot on your plate right now, but you seem to only want to harp on people if they don't agree with you. And at only 24 years old you still have some growing up to do yourself. Oh and by the way, look above at one of your previous posts...you did call mom's lazy for putting cereal in a bottle (which I don't agree with anyway) and you called parents who try to train their child to sleep a 10-12 hour long stretch selfish. Do your homework! A baby needs to sleep that long (an older infant, not a newborn). For someone who comes accross as a mom who researches everything and lives and breathes motherhood you don't know much about a babies sleep needs. But you seem to think you are the most educated mom on here.  Jeeze, you do have issues.





do not use my age against me. I am not a stat. Why am I not allowed to have an opinion but everyone else can? Please explain it to me. i never called anyone names on here, saying that I think people who put rice cereal in a bottle are lazy is a general statment, I did not single out I was useing that as an example but I guess you were to high and mighty to actually read my posts, you just glanced at them and picked what you liked so you could twist it around and use it against me. Are you not just as guilty by telling me I have issues? Oh and by the way, cereal in a botlle is not an opinion because we are told NEVER PUT CEREAL IN A BOTTLE by our health nurses. I have never heard a doctor or nurse tell me if you want to try cereal in a bottle so YOU can get more rest than go ahead. You also stated that everything I say is a load of crap and now you know it is because of my age. I guess you are suggesting that I am stupid because I am 24. Just because I did not read the studies that you have does not mean I am stupid. I dont agree with CIO I have explained that and I did research it, I talked to my doctor who is also a mother of 4 young kids. I looked up several parenting websites all stating that it is damaging. I am not going to bother quoteing any because you think your right anyway. The only resources I have found stating that cio is good is found in books and sleep training programs...hmm sounds like a way to make a quick buck, lets target sleep deprived mothers into wasteing there money on a bunch of shitty books and programs and make them believe all the crap we shove at them. Well sorry but I am not that gullible. I do my research I just dont believe every bit of trash that is tossed out there by "older wiser mothers" times change ashley, maybe it is time to change with them.

Heather - posted on 06/09/2009

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I just wanted to say thank you for starting this thread! I'm so tired of reading about people expecting their infants to sleep 10 hours straight from the time they're a few months old. I know this may sound harsh, but it seems so selfish to me, which is the opposite of parenthood. I went into it expecting sleep deprivation, for the first year, if not longer. I'm not sure why so many people are convinced babies should be like tiny adults. They don't eat like adults, they don't speak like adults, they don't think like adults and they don't sleep like adults. People seem in such a hurry to have their little ones grow up instead of enjoying the special, only-as-a-baby moments, no matter how trying they may be at times. I wear the bags under my eyes (which have been there for the past 11 months) with pride...most days anyhow ; )

?? - posted on 06/09/2009

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I don't think co-sleeping or breast feeding has anything to do with babies sleeping. I think it is an all around contentness... I agree that sleeping through the night for a baby isn't the same as an adult - my son sleeps from 10-11pm until 5-6am, has a bottle and goes back to sleep until 10am. Whether he sleeps with me or breast feeds or not has nothing to do with his sleeping........ we play A LOT, he gets enough to eat, he's happy, he's cuddled, he's loved and he knows he's safe... he knows if he cries or even makes a noise, I'll be there - and I know that cause the silly lil man has tested it, literally... he'd cry, I'd go pick him up and cuddle him and he'd go back to sleep, then I would put him in his crib, and he would wimper and I would come runnin and he'd be there smilin at me like he was thinkin "HAHA GOTCHA MOMMMMMMM!!!"



He slept through the night literally, 12 hours a night from January 10th for about 3 months. He was growing like a weed too. My son is a big boy but he is in NO WAY a fat boy. He's tall and stocky, like all the men in both mine and his daddy's families. In those 3 months I got less sleep than when he was waking up every 3-4 hours.



Different things work for different moms and as a SAHM right now, I have all the time in the world to sleep when daddy is home from work or the weekends and he's there to get in his own bonding time with his son. Soon I'll be starting online courses and will still be home with him and he will rule my life, I am 100% a-ok with that, I wouldn't want it any other way.



I know that not all moms have that - but I'm sure there are others that could do the same if they wanted too. I get told to shut up and go away by my partner (jokingly of course) cause I don't want to miss a minute with Gabriel, but he wants time alone with his lil boy.



I don't think needing sleep is being selfish or uncaring. Especially if you're at your wits end or your body literally can't take anymore and need to sleep - as humans we have physical needs, sleeping, eating, exercise, etc to work properly just as much as our babies do. Those moms need to find some way to get that rest. And it's perfectly fine to want and need that rest.



After so many months, an infant waking every 2 hours to nurse or seek comfort - it means there is something that needs to be addressed. Whether it's a habit you've formed for that child or something deeper, or it could even be something as simple as it's too warm or too cool in the babies room. Co-sleeping or not, breast feeding or not, getting enough play time or not, getting enough fresh air or not, growth spurts, the list goes on and on, there's all sorts of things that lead to babies sleeping for longer or sleeping short bursts at a time.



Some moms need more sleep than others to be "human". I know a lady if she doesn't get 12 hours of sleep a night, she literally can't walk and chew gum at the same time. She doesn't have children, but if she were to have kids - she would be a mom who would rely on her partner to take up some night feedings otherwise her child would suffer immensely. She would be an AMAZING mom, as long as she got the sleep. But if she didn't get that sleep... who knows what could happen, the dog would get baby food, the baby would get cat food and the cat would probably move to the neighbours!

Pililani - posted on 06/09/2009

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Its just hard for some adults to deal with the sleep deprivation. My daughter woke up every two hours to nurse untill she was 2 years old, my son wakes up twice a night, he's almost nine months. It depends on the child and the habits their parents place upon them. My daughter would wake to nurse because that is the habit I taught her. Instead of seeing if maybe it could be something different I nursed her and she kept that habit. My son wakes for one bottle during the night and the other time its just to be held. I'm not depriving him of food cause he is a really big boy, 27 lbs at almost nine months. Its not logic and a baby from 6 months on can sleep at least 6 hours without food.

Cathralynn - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:



Quoting Cathralynn:




Quoting Jennifer:

Co-sleeping and breast feeding makes all the difference in the world.

I personally don't think that all the people who post in favor of tending to young ones needs as they develope normal sleep patterns are posting against mothers who believe CIO is the answers their needs. The ones who believe CIO often are responding to the selfish statements posted by those who prefer CIO because they, more often than not, state they use CIO because they themselves need to sleep through the night. Read their posts which are inudated with "I need to sleep," " I could not function," "I needed rest, " etc... And, again, more often than not, "My ped said they should be sleeping through the night," when the definitin of sleeping through the night as an infant (anything under 12 months, generally speaking) is 4-6 hours at any given time.

Me, personally, am over-joyed when my DD sleeps 4-5 hours w/o waking during the night. I wake up like, "Oh smack, she slept 5 hours, woo-hooooo!!!!!!" I rejoice and do the the party dance. Everytime my SIL sees me, she starts with, "Does she sleep through the night because, you know, I put rice in Lillian's bottle just as soon as we came home from the hospital and she's been sleeping through the night since then. Oh, that's right, you don't bottle-fed, well you should, then you could sleep." Lillian is a little on the FAT side.

As a co-sleeper, cloth-diaperer, breast-feeding, baby-toting momma with Lupus, I sleep just fine! And, if I can take care of three little ones, clean my house, grow my garden, work a full-time job, commute three hours a day, and still hug on my honey, then any woman out there can, with grace, charm and a good attitude!

I raise my glass (of water) to all the momma's like me, who do it everyday! And a shot (of juice or coffee) to those crafty momma's running their own businesses while at it!

For clarification, this post is strictly informational and to commend mother's of the like!







SO this is gonna sound neg and I don't mean to be rude, but if breastfeeding and co-sleeping make all the difference in the world, but you are over-joyed when your baby sleeps 4-5 hrs without waking. How's that?  Does it make the difference just in your sleep patterns and rest by not having to get up and being able to go back to sleep quicker?  Wanting to understand.  Sometimes it seems to me that some of the bf co-sleeping moms claim to have all the answers but your babies don't sleep thru either.  Maybe its just that most would like moms to just "go with it" more.








And then separately, I love my style of parenting, but always am out to learn from the other side.  As far as co-sleeping goes when do you try and move the child to sleeping on his/her own?  I've seen that a lot of these moms have multiple children.  Do they all sleep with you? Do you in some way let the baby decide?  How does that work? Best of luck to all.









More like, "BONUS!"  Of course there are nights that I'd love to sleep for 8 hours, but I chose to have these babies, therefore, if I had any forsight, I knew there would be times, most of them, that during that first year, I'd get scattered sleep. My DD wakes at 9pm, 12:30am and 4:30am, and then she'll happily sleep until 8:30am.  She goes down at 7pm and wakes at 9pm because that's when I go to bed.  She wakes at 4:30am because that's when the first alarm goes off for DH.  Otherwise, she'd skip that 4:30 feeding, but that 4:30 feeding measn she sleeps through me getting ready for work and getting my two boys ready for daycare and school. 






 






Add is eating right and really, you feel better even with less sleep. 






 






4-5 hours is sleeping through the night by definition.  It is the ludicrous concept that babies should at 4 months sleep 8-12 hours w/o waking.  Too often people assume that "sleeping through the night" for a baby is the same as an adult.






 






So many mom's want to make the baby sleep on their schedule, but don't want to adjust their own lives to help themsleves, like eating right, or not staying up until 10/11pm.  There is a host of other things moms can do to help themselves feel better, more energized, well rested, etc.






 






When to transition to their bed?  From my own experiences, my children transitioned on their own between 1 and 2.  Like all kids, the middle child has found his way into our bed in the middle of the night once, maybe twice.  He's been in his bed since he was about 14 months.  DD is only seven months.






 






But, in the end, I think the biggest issue is the obsession with "sleeping through the night," but by definition, that just means 4-6 hours, not from 8-12. 






 






My DD, by definition, sleeps through the night a couple times a week.  Right now, she's teething, such is life, but I love it!






 





Not worried bout the sleeping thru the night thing or anyones definition of it.  My daughters a year and sleeps ten hours reliably.  She's always been pretty easy going and I know all babies are different.  I was just curious about the co-sleeping thing.  I was set against it from the start and it all worked out okay with my daughter in a bassinet in my room (like I said she's pretty easy going).  We moved her to her own room at about 2mo when I went back to work and I just got up when she needed.  My thoughts were that I didn't want to have to break her of the habit when she got older.  I have friends whose kids still sleep with them or on the floor and they are ages 6-12, multiple parents with multiple kids.  I just wondered if that experince was common or just the few friends I have.  Do people have a hard time teaching their kids to sleep in their own beds/rooms or is it just not that important to some parents?

Jennifer - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Cathralynn:



Quoting Jennifer:

Co-sleeping and breast feeding makes all the difference in the world.

I personally don't think that all the people who post in favor of tending to young ones needs as they develope normal sleep patterns are posting against mothers who believe CIO is the answers their needs. The ones who believe CIO often are responding to the selfish statements posted by those who prefer CIO because they, more often than not, state they use CIO because they themselves need to sleep through the night. Read their posts which are inudated with "I need to sleep," " I could not function," "I needed rest, " etc... And, again, more often than not, "My ped said they should be sleeping through the night," when the definitin of sleeping through the night as an infant (anything under 12 months, generally speaking) is 4-6 hours at any given time.

Me, personally, am over-joyed when my DD sleeps 4-5 hours w/o waking during the night. I wake up like, "Oh smack, she slept 5 hours, woo-hooooo!!!!!!" I rejoice and do the the party dance. Everytime my SIL sees me, she starts with, "Does she sleep through the night because, you know, I put rice in Lillian's bottle just as soon as we came home from the hospital and she's been sleeping through the night since then. Oh, that's right, you don't bottle-fed, well you should, then you could sleep." Lillian is a little on the FAT side.

As a co-sleeper, cloth-diaperer, breast-feeding, baby-toting momma with Lupus, I sleep just fine! And, if I can take care of three little ones, clean my house, grow my garden, work a full-time job, commute three hours a day, and still hug on my honey, then any woman out there can, with grace, charm and a good attitude!

I raise my glass (of water) to all the momma's like me, who do it everyday! And a shot (of juice or coffee) to those crafty momma's running their own businesses while at it!

For clarification, this post is strictly informational and to commend mother's of the like!





SO this is gonna sound neg and I don't mean to be rude, but if breastfeeding and co-sleeping make all the difference in the world, but you are over-joyed when your baby sleeps 4-5 hrs without waking. How's that?  Does it make the difference just in your sleep patterns and rest by not having to get up and being able to go back to sleep quicker?  Wanting to understand.  Sometimes it seems to me that some of the bf co-sleeping moms claim to have all the answers but your babies don't sleep thru either.  Maybe its just that most would like moms to just "go with it" more.






And then separately, I love my style of parenting, but always am out to learn from the other side.  As far as co-sleeping goes when do you try and move the child to sleeping on his/her own?  I've seen that a lot of these moms have multiple children.  Do they all sleep with you? Do you in some way let the baby decide?  How does that work? Best of luck to all.





More like, "BONUS!"  Of course there are nights that I'd love to sleep for 8 hours, but I chose to have these babies, therefore, if I had any forsight, I knew there would be times, most of them, that during that first year, I'd get scattered sleep. My DD wakes at 9pm, 12:30am and 4:30am, and then she'll happily sleep until 8:30am.  She goes down at 7pm and wakes at 9pm because that's when I go to bed.  She wakes at 4:30am because that's when the first alarm goes off for DH.  Otherwise, she'd skip that 4:30 feeding, but that 4:30 feeding measn she sleeps through me getting ready for work and getting my two boys ready for daycare and school. 



 



Add is eating right and really, you feel better even with less sleep. 



 



4-5 hours is sleeping through the night by definition.  It is the ludicrous concept that babies should at 4 months sleep 8-12 hours w/o waking.  Too often people assume that "sleeping through the night" for a baby is the same as an adult.



 



So many mom's want to make the baby sleep on their schedule, but don't want to adjust their own lives to help themsleves, like eating right, or not staying up until 10/11pm.  There is a host of other things moms can do to help themselves feel better, more energized, well rested, etc.



 



When to transition to their bed?  From my own experiences, my children transitioned on their own between 1 and 2.  Like all kids, the middle child has found his way into our bed in the middle of the night once, maybe twice.  He's been in his bed since he was about 14 months.  DD is only seven months.



 



But, in the end, I think the biggest issue is the obsession with "sleeping through the night," but by definition, that just means 4-6 hours, not from 8-12. 



 



My DD, by definition, sleeps through the night a couple times a week.  Right now, she's teething, such is life, but I love it!



 

Cathralynn - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Jennifer:

Co-sleeping and breast feeding makes all the difference in the world.

I personally don't think that all the people who post in favor of tending to young ones needs as they develope normal sleep patterns are posting against mothers who believe CIO is the answers their needs. The ones who believe CIO often are responding to the selfish statements posted by those who prefer CIO because they, more often than not, state they use CIO because they themselves need to sleep through the night. Read their posts which are inudated with "I need to sleep," " I could not function," "I needed rest, " etc... And, again, more often than not, "My ped said they should be sleeping through the night," when the definitin of sleeping through the night as an infant (anything under 12 months, generally speaking) is 4-6 hours at any given time.

Me, personally, am over-joyed when my DD sleeps 4-5 hours w/o waking during the night. I wake up like, "Oh smack, she slept 5 hours, woo-hooooo!!!!!!" I rejoice and do the the party dance. Everytime my SIL sees me, she starts with, "Does she sleep through the night because, you know, I put rice in Lillian's bottle just as soon as we came home from the hospital and she's been sleeping through the night since then. Oh, that's right, you don't bottle-fed, well you should, then you could sleep." Lillian is a little on the FAT side.

As a co-sleeper, cloth-diaperer, breast-feeding, baby-toting momma with Lupus, I sleep just fine! And, if I can take care of three little ones, clean my house, grow my garden, work a full-time job, commute three hours a day, and still hug on my honey, then any woman out there can, with grace, charm and a good attitude!

I raise my glass (of water) to all the momma's like me, who do it everyday! And a shot (of juice or coffee) to those crafty momma's running their own businesses while at it!

For clarification, this post is strictly informational and to commend mother's of the like!


SO this is gonna sound neg and I don't mean to be rude, but if breastfeeding and co-sleeping make all the difference in the world, but you are over-joyed when your baby sleeps 4-5 hrs without waking. How's that?  Does it make the difference just in your sleep patterns and rest by not having to get up and being able to go back to sleep quicker?  Wanting to understand.  Sometimes it seems to me that some of the bf co-sleeping moms claim to have all the answers but your babies don't sleep thru either.  Maybe its just that most would like moms to just "go with it" more.



And then separately, I love my style of parenting, but always am out to learn from the other side.  As far as co-sleeping goes when do you try and move the child to sleeping on his/her own?  I've seen that a lot of these moms have multiple children.  Do they all sleep with you? Do you in some way let the baby decide?  How does that work? Best of luck to all.

Jennifer - posted on 06/09/2009

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Co-sleeping and breast feeding makes all the difference in the world.



I personally don't think that all the people who post in favor of tending to young ones needs as they develope normal sleep patterns are posting against mothers who believe CIO is the answers their needs. The ones who believe CIO often are responding to the selfish statements posted by those who prefer CIO because they, more often than not, state they use CIO because they themselves need to sleep through the night. Read their posts which are inudated with "I need to sleep," " I could not function," "I needed rest, " etc... And, again, more often than not, "My ped said they should be sleeping through the night," when the definitin of sleeping through the night as an infant (anything under 12 months, generally speaking) is 4-6 hours at any given time.



Me, personally, am over-joyed when my DD sleeps 4-5 hours w/o waking during the night. I wake up like, "Oh smack, she slept 5 hours, woo-hooooo!!!!!!" I rejoice and do the the party dance. Everytime my SIL sees me, she starts with, "Does she sleep through the night because, you know, I put rice in Lillian's bottle just as soon as we came home from the hospital and she's been sleeping through the night since then. Oh, that's right, you don't bottle-fed, well you should, then you could sleep." Lillian is a little on the FAT side.



As a co-sleeper, cloth-diaperer, breast-feeding, baby-toting momma with Lupus, I sleep just fine! And, if I can take care of three little ones, clean my house, grow my garden, work a full-time job, commute three hours a day, and still hug on my honey, then any woman out there can, with grace, charm and a good attitude!



I raise my glass (of water) to all the momma's like me, who do it everyday! And a shot (of juice or coffee) to those crafty momma's running their own businesses while at it!



For clarification, this post is strictly informational and to commend mother's of the like!

Emily - posted on 06/09/2009

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Im sorry you feel as though those of us wanting our children to sleep through the night is wrong. However, having a child that was getting up 6-7 times a night at the age of 7 months and taking care of him every time he gets up by myself is EXTREMELY tiring. We may be moms but i believe that we also deserve our sleep after a while. A baby that doesn't learn a good sleeping pattern, will always have a hard time sleeping. Being exhausted day in and day out makes it very hard to have the energy to chase them around the house all day. If you want to keep getting up everyday.. all the more power to you, im just not the type of mom that can physically get 2 hours of sleep a night then deal with a cranky baby all day.. my pediatrician told me that past 4 or 5 months, they no longer need to eat at night, it becomes habit!

Jennifer - posted on 06/09/2009

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Veronica's post was grown up. I am now reminded why I haven't been to CofM for quite awhile.



Enjoy the hate here, yum-yum. Can't really learn from one another or have grown up conversatiosn and debates about parenting styles nad parentling info if we spend that much time insulting and cussing each other out, now can we. Chill pill, valium, time-out, type and delete until we can respond in manner we'd not be ashamed of if our children read/heard? Hmmmm...

Ashley - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Ashley:




Quoting Amanda:





Quoting Ashley:






Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)











Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.















oh so you speak for the majority now do you. you know what everyone is thinking.












I think there are plenty of mom's on here that feel this way. Maybe not how the person feels about you Amanda, but how mom's feel about raising a family, taking care of the household, working, hubby time, in general. and knowing that a good night sleep makes it a hell of a lot easier to do. And that most of the time it is great, but every so often we are tired and overwhelmed and just want and deserve a break. There are plenty of your posts to different threads that imply you are supermom 24 hours a day and do it with a smile to your face...in so many words. Veronica's post just gave us all a little dose of reality, and made us all feel better about the days when we feel worn out.









her whole post was a bitch rant about me. I have never seen such vulger language before.  just nasty I think. so if you say thanks for the post than I guess you agree. Dont try to turn it around. You seem to always have something to say about me ashley, you could not just live and let live as I had asked you long ago.






I never knew being a good mother was a bad thing, researching the decisions for my children I never thought that was a bad thing. like with cio, you say you researched it before you used it well good for you, I also researched it because I have old school grandparents trying to push the method on me. personally I dont agree with the method, if it worked for your kid fine but i know mine would be screaming on end for hours. I do let her cry in bed for up to 5 min or so when i put her down and i always put  her down awake.  she only cries when she is over tired and then she crashes. but back to the point, I did get nasty with bec because of how rude she was not only in this thread but in the thread that she started to bash hard working moms.






I am sorry that some moms cant hold it together almost all the time. I can, and I have had to train myself to do it. I had my first when I was 18 and trust me I was not super mom. I am 24 now and just in the last year I have become much more organized and efficient. I do find the rice ceral in a bottle selfish and that is my opinion. There have been several threads where moms have posted when is it ok to put cereal in a bottle ect, I have never called the moms lazy infact the only thing i say is NEVER, it is never ok because it is a choking hazard.






If you ask me which you probably wont because you have me pegged as a monster, I think veronica (giving her opinion) is just as bad as me if not worse because she is sitting there swearing at me like a trash mouth.






Remember freedom of speech, I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours.





First of all, I never even implied you were a monster. I think you give your opinion and then state other mom's who don't feel the same way are lazy and selfish. Which you did call other mom's who don't abide by your definition of a wonderful mother as lazy and selfish...please read above in some of your earlier posts. You are entitled to your opinion...everyone is. But it is uncool to call other mom's who may have a different parenting style lazy or selfish, that is why you get so much backlash on here. If you read above other mom's aren't too happy with some of your comments either. Most of the time I read your comments, roll my eyes, and move on because half the time you give off this "holier than thou" above all other mom's attitude. But when you call other mom's on here lazy or selfish I am going to say something. If you don't want the comments back to you than don't start with the name calling of other mom's. Now that I know you had your first at 18 and are only 24 it makes sense...a lot of the things you say are loaded with crap. You should watch how you phrase things when you post if you would like people to take you seriously.

Jennifer - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Amanda:
Looks like you are trying to compare US stats to Canadian stats, which would be different as to population.  Reall simple, you'd have to break it down based on the ratios, deaths to population.



With pahrmaceauticle companies and agri-businesses being some of teh biggest lobbyist  to the US government, of course, they would like it to look like co-sleeping (which tends to coincide with breast-feeding) would result in higher numbers of SIDS.



If you don't like the stats, move on.  She was simply providing the data and not insulting anyone.



According to WHO, your data of 16% less chance of dying in a crib vs mom's bed, in unsubstatiated.



 



Thank you.



Quoting Sian:

Here are some stats on co-sleeping ..just to help dispel the myth that its a very dangerous practice. I co-slept with all my babies and know full well that your brain doesnt 'sleep' like your body does... the same bit of your brain that stops you from falling out of bed every night, stops you from squashing your baby!
Its the lovliest most natural thing in the world - we seem to be the only mammals who make our young sleep somewhere away from us.

Number of U.S. births year 2000: 4,058,814

Total infant deaths year 2000: 28,411
Age birth to 1 year. (6.9 per thousand)

Number SIDS deaths year 2000: 2,523
Defined as death with unexplained cause, birth to 1 year.

Total suffocation deaths year 2000: 1,000

Number of crib-related "accidents"/yr: 50

Number of playpen-related deaths/yr: 16

Number deaths/yr attributed to overlying: 19 Most are only "suspected."

Number of babies (0-2) dying in night fires/yr: 230 Many of which may have been retrievable if next to parent, not in another room of home. This is true for abductions and other night dangers as well.

Number of deaths/yr in adult beds reported as entrapment/suffocation between bed and wall, headboard, or other furniture, on waterbed, in headboard railings, or tangled in bedding: 18 With side-rail: 1 That's 19 of the 60.

Number of deaths/yr reported as suffocation of unknown cause in adult bed: 13 These would be SIDS if in a crib. Remember, these do not necessarily involve cosleeping.

Number of deaths/yr in adult beds from prone sleeping: 5 Again, these are considered SIDS in cribs, and they are preventable in adult beds, as in cribs.

4/yr died not from falling out of adult bed, but from suffocating (pile of clothes, plastic bag) or other danger (such as drowning) after falling out.

13% of U.S. infants are routinely cosleeping with nearly 50% sharing bed for part of the nights. National Institute of Child Health and Human Development 2000 Survey,

Number of U.S. infant lives that could be saved per year by exclusive/extended breastfeeding: 9,000 Exclusive/extended breastfeeding cuts SIDS risk and cuts overall infant death risk in half.


Why does our nation rank only 42nd in infant survival?* in the industrialized world (some non-reporting nations are thought to rank better than us as well)? Our difference from the best-ranking nations is a high predominance of formula feeding, isolated sleep, and medical intervention. The highest cosleeping/ breastfeeding nations rank with half our overall infant death rate (and negligable SIDS rates). Remember we rank #1 in medical intervention.





I have found evidance for the contrary stateing that the risk of infant death by suffication, straglation and other accidentals are 16% higher in moms bed than in a crib following canadas back to sleep iniciative. Things to consider are, is there puffy blankets in the bed/crib, the age of the crib, sleep position of the baby. these are all factors that play a roll in determining the death numbers. a baby who is put to sleep in the crib the way its use is intended to has a 16% less chance of dying an accidental death than one in moms bed.






The whole your brain does not let you roll onto your child does not work for everyone, I have read news cases of mothers killing their babies in their sleep either by squishing them, suffocating them or letting them fall wack there head and having them bleed out.






You can not sit there and say that it does not happen ever because it does. if a parent wants to sleep with baby next to them fine I just think it should be done with the child in a bassinet, co sleeper or play pen beside the bed. mom is still at an arms reach and the baby is safe





 

Kandace - posted on 06/09/2009

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well my almost 2 year old has not really slept an entire night in his life. He does not get up for long when he wakes up anymore but I don't know why he does I don't give him food or anything when he gets up, he just gets up and comes in and lays by me and I have to put him back in his bed. I am hoping one day he stops it but for now it really doesn't bother me, just what he does.

Kandace - posted on 06/09/2009

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well my almost 2 year old has not really slept an entire night in his life. He does not get up for long when he wakes up anymore but I don't know why he does I don't give him food or anything when he gets up, he just gets up and comes in and lays by me and I have to put him back in his bed. I am hoping one day he stops it but for now it really doesn't bother me, just what he does.

Jessica - posted on 06/09/2009

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Quoting Nyssa:



Quoting Rosalind:

okay help...my son is 16 months and wakes up about 4 times a night..sometimes hollering due to gas...but the other is because he cant find his binky...I hate it... Do I need to be concern like that?





Hi Rosalind,






I don't think it is anything to be concerned about as such, re the gas, have you tried altering his diet slightly, or altering the time he is fed prior to bed time, to try and help alleviate that ?  Tried some warm water when he wakes up with tummy pains ?






re the dummy, I think that's a common occurrence, have you tried putting a few dummies in reach of him in his cot, so that if he loses one he has more chance of finding a replacement ?  I think that a lot of mothers wean off Dummies when it starts affecting their sleep patterns :)






 






RE Everything else,






I have read this entire thread, basically because I'm so over not getting enough sleep, I'd see if there was any suggestions or comforts about reasons why Children don't sleep through... I found none of that.  I thought I would share though.






I have a 22mnth old daughter, She has been for the last few months waking up to 10 or 12 times a night..... she also starts the day from 5.30/6ish.  I am a single parent, I'm a WAHM, by the 6th or 7th time of getting up to my daughter I am so Angry at her, now, I know that this is not the way to be, but I'm just so exhausted that I hear her cry it wakes me and I feel like crying myself..... This is a perfectly good reason to want my child to sleep through (or at least only wake once or twice)... My mental well being is as important as her physical well being, as they reflect upon one another.  If I am in a bad place from lack of sleep, then her needs are going to be less well-met than if I was feeling good.






My daughter is well adjusted, she is generally a happy child, She is on a very limited diet due to allergies, but eats very well, she naps perfectly fine during the day etc etc etc.  The only thing I can put the night wakings down to is possibly 2yo Molars.. now I understand that this may be causing her discomfort and affecting her sleep patterns, but understanding something intellectually is a totally diff kettle of fish to understanding it emotionally.. and coping with it emotionally....






The reason I am writing this is because I'd imagine some other mothers have read this thread and felt like me that I am the Worst Parent in the world, because I get to the point of going "OMG I wish my child would just G'Damn sleep... why can't she just sleep, please just sleep...."  I do not think that expecting an almost 2 yo to sleep through the majority of the time is unwarranted.






And yes, I do allow my child to cry for a few mins to see if she'll resettle herself, it allows me to get into a better frame of mind to go and comfort her, and it allows me to decide whether there is something wrong, or if she's just woken and given herself a start.






I wish she would cosleep, then I wouldn't be having as badly interrupted sleep as I currently am, but If I remove my daughter from her cot during the night, she fights to get back into it, she wants to be asleep, she wants to be in her cot, she just wants me to stand beside her all night too......






hrmmm, The End of my novel... but hopefully it has been a bit of a comfort to some of those mothers feeling like they don't deserve children, because they would give almost anything for them to sleep... and a fair few ppl are making them feel like they don't have the right to wish for a full nights sleep.






N.





Nyssa,



Have you tried teething tablets?  They were a Godsend when my kiddo was teething.  Have you tried giving her a snack before bedtime?  I'm not an advocate of the CIO method mostly because I have 3 other children and that's all I need is to have my whole house wake up, but maybe if you read up on it and tried it out a couple of nights it might work.  Did she just recently start or has this been a long habit of hers?



I understand the go to sleep already attitude.  My kids are 7,5,3,1 and I'm pregnant with #5, I nurse and co-sleep which helps with the lack of sleep but I'm freakin tired.  I work full time as well so not getting a good nights sleep sucks.  I don't think this makes us bad mothers I think it makes us human.

Mary - posted on 06/09/2009

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Amanda Passmore-----From the posts that I have read here and in other topics I must say that at times you are very rude and condesending.....I am not trying to start a fight with you or anything it is just that sometimes evenwhen what you are saying has a valid point you make it sound so rude. I understand feeling strongly about a topic and all but there is a way to expres that without making every other mother who doesan't agree with you feel like a bad mother. Everyone has their own opinions and I respect that but there is no need to call others down to show how strongly you feel about something.



I don't know you and I have no idea what you have been through (I noticed someone say something about cutting you some slack because of what you have been through) but I just get so tired of going into a topic that interests me and leaving feeling like a bad person and mother because of your comments....I have even agreed with some of your posts but dissliked the way they were put across. I was tought to be respectful of others thoughts and opinions and that it was ok to have my own. I was also tought not to be rude to others because of their opinions. I feel like to many people on here don't think of those things before posting.

Mary - posted on 06/09/2009

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Ok I didn't get to read every last post but what I did read made me a little angry. I AM NOT LAZY for wanting to get some sleep and neither is any other mother out there. Yes when a baby is a newborn they need to wake up 2-4 hours (yes I said 4 hours because my son wanted food every 3-4 hours and the doctor said that was perfectly fine.) I am not forcing my child to sleep through the night.....My son is now 10 months old and he goes to bed at 8 pm and usualy gets up between 7-8am. Sometimes he wakes up and cries. I go in and check on him....if his diaper is full I chage him and settle him back in to sleep.....If his diaper is fine I just rub his back and wisper to him and he goes back to sleep.



He doesn't need or want food in the middle of the night anymore. I didn't force him to do anything....I offered him a bottle at night untill he started refusing it. All children are different and when they are ready they will sleep through the night but I must say that I have never heard of a two year old still waking every 3 hours to eat.



All in all I guess I am saying that of course it is crazy to think a 1 week old baby is gonna sleep through the night but a two year old should. I know that they might wake up for other reasons but food shouldn't be one of them. I define sleeping through the night as not feeding every 2 hours just cause I myself still wake up in the middle of the night for no reason sometimes.....I mean people are gonna wake up to go to the bathroom or get a drink or because they heard a noise....I don't think anyone can say that when they go to bed they sleep 100% of the time from the min they fall asleep to the time they get up in the morning.



I just think it is a little unfair to call mothers lazy and unorganised just because they need some sleep to function....there is nothing wrong with wanting your child to sleep without waking every couple of hours.....but obviously when they are ready to do so and not before.

Rachael - posted on 06/09/2009

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My story is very similar to Laci's. I would have thought that a toddler sleeping through would be better for them than to wake up and want to run around and play at any given hour of the night. I can say that this does irratate me when this happens to me. As a parent i think im doing the right thing by tryin to put my daughter back to bed instead of letting her think its okay to be up and about so early in the morning or late at night. If she wakes and is visibly distraught of course i will change her nappy, give her a bottle or rock her back to sleep what ever works but if she just wants to play iam firm to put her back to bed and in so letting her know its time for bed. This is how my child acts and i know their are plenty of children who may sleep through the night and not do this but for the parents whos children do wake and just want to play when its sleep time i think its more than fair if they get upset or annoyed and want their child to go back to bed.

Veronica - posted on 06/08/2009

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another quick note amanda: this circle of moms is for moms, it doesnt say circle of moms and their kids, or circle of kids, or circle of infants -- so the fact that i used swear words in my forum ( like a lot of others do too ) does not have anything to do with my children. Swear words are my last resort of - ok im not going to be nicey nicey anymore -- my kids arent on here, they dont read, and therefore, it doesnt matter!

Veronica - posted on 06/08/2009

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i certainly do my best to help, and understand when im confused, and learn from what others have to say.... maybe you should stop acting like you are the best, and that we are beneath you, and start listening.



Later, V

Veronica - posted on 06/08/2009

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Amanda Passmore -- I am sooo passionate about being a mother, wife, and friend -- but if you go through and read alll your forums you are rude, demanding and insulting. Im soooo frustrated that i resorted to swearing, cause i just cannot stand reading the crap anymore. We all know the studies and dangers of things we do: baby suffocating due to co-sleeping, baby choking on a bottle of cereal, baby vomitting and lacking security from CIO, etc. etc. etc. -- we also know the risks to bunji jumping, mountain climbing, amusement park rides, sky diving, et.c etc. etc. -- some of us do these things, and some of us dont. Im not saying we are risk takers and are hoping the best with our children -- but we are making decisions based on what works for us, and hellps the baby at the time being. At least try to be nicer, or go on the approach : this is what works for me, maybe you could try it out and see if it helps you too... anything nice - thats all we are asking for (and yes i do mean 'we' ive seen a lot of posts against you by a lot of women on here) Im not the nicest person either, but

Nyssa - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Rosalind:

okay help...my son is 16 months and wakes up about 4 times a night..sometimes hollering due to gas...but the other is because he cant find his binky...I hate it... Do I need to be concern like that?


Hi Rosalind,



I don't think it is anything to be concerned about as such, re the gas, have you tried altering his diet slightly, or altering the time he is fed prior to bed time, to try and help alleviate that ?  Tried some warm water when he wakes up with tummy pains ?



re the dummy, I think that's a common occurrence, have you tried putting a few dummies in reach of him in his cot, so that if he loses one he has more chance of finding a replacement ?  I think that a lot of mothers wean off Dummies when it starts affecting their sleep patterns :)



 



RE Everything else,



I have read this entire thread, basically because I'm so over not getting enough sleep, I'd see if there was any suggestions or comforts about reasons why Children don't sleep through... I found none of that.  I thought I would share though.



I have a 22mnth old daughter, She has been for the last few months waking up to 10 or 12 times a night..... she also starts the day from 5.30/6ish.  I am a single parent, I'm a WAHM, by the 6th or 7th time of getting up to my daughter I am so Angry at her, now, I know that this is not the way to be, but I'm just so exhausted that I hear her cry it wakes me and I feel like crying myself..... This is a perfectly good reason to want my child to sleep through (or at least only wake once or twice)... My mental well being is as important as her physical well being, as they reflect upon one another.  If I am in a bad place from lack of sleep, then her needs are going to be less well-met than if I was feeling good.



My daughter is well adjusted, she is generally a happy child, She is on a very limited diet due to allergies, but eats very well, she naps perfectly fine during the day etc etc etc.  The only thing I can put the night wakings down to is possibly 2yo Molars.. now I understand that this may be causing her discomfort and affecting her sleep patterns, but understanding something intellectually is a totally diff kettle of fish to understanding it emotionally.. and coping with it emotionally....



The reason I am writing this is because I'd imagine some other mothers have read this thread and felt like me that I am the Worst Parent in the world, because I get to the point of going "OMG I wish my child would just G'Damn sleep... why can't she just sleep, please just sleep...."  I do not think that expecting an almost 2 yo to sleep through the majority of the time is unwarranted.



And yes, I do allow my child to cry for a few mins to see if she'll resettle herself, it allows me to get into a better frame of mind to go and comfort her, and it allows me to decide whether there is something wrong, or if she's just woken and given herself a start.



I wish she would cosleep, then I wouldn't be having as badly interrupted sleep as I currently am, but If I remove my daughter from her cot during the night, she fights to get back into it, she wants to be asleep, she wants to be in her cot, she just wants me to stand beside her all night too......



hrmmm, The End of my novel... but hopefully it has been a bit of a comfort to some of those mothers feeling like they don't deserve children, because they would give almost anything for them to sleep... and a fair few ppl are making them feel like they don't have the right to wish for a full nights sleep.



N.

Ashley - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Ashley:




Quoting Amanda:





Quoting Ashley:






Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)











Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.















oh so you speak for the majority now do you. you know what everyone is thinking.












I think there are plenty of mom's on here that feel this way. Maybe not how the person feels about you Amanda, but how mom's feel about raising a family, taking care of the household, working, hubby time, in general. and knowing that a good night sleep makes it a hell of a lot easier to do. And that most of the time it is great, but every so often we are tired and overwhelmed and just want and deserve a break. There are plenty of your posts to different threads that imply you are supermom 24 hours a day and do it with a smile to your face...in so many words. Veronica's post just gave us all a little dose of reality, and made us all feel better about the days when we feel worn out.









her whole post was a bitch rant about me. I have never seen such vulger language before.  just nasty I think. so if you say thanks for the post than I guess you agree. Dont try to turn it around. You seem to always have something to say about me ashley, you could not just live and let live as I had asked you long ago.






I never knew being a good mother was a bad thing, researching the decisions for my children I never thought that was a bad thing. like with cio, you say you researched it before you used it well good for you, I also researched it because I have old school grandparents trying to push the method on me. personally I dont agree with the method, if it worked for your kid fine but i know mine would be screaming on end for hours. I do let her cry in bed for up to 5 min or so when i put her down and i always put  her down awake.  she only cries when she is over tired and then she crashes. but back to the point, I did get nasty with bec because of how rude she was not only in this thread but in the thread that she started to bash hard working moms.






I am sorry that some moms cant hold it together almost all the time. I can, and I have had to train myself to do it. I had my first when I was 18 and trust me I was not super mom. I am 24 now and just in the last year I have become much more organized and efficient. I do find the rice ceral in a bottle selfish and that is my opinion. There have been several threads where moms have posted when is it ok to put cereal in a bottle ect, I have never called the moms lazy infact the only thing i say is NEVER, it is never ok because it is a choking hazard.






If you ask me which you probably wont because you have me pegged as a monster, I think veronica (giving her opinion) is just as bad as me if not worse because she is sitting there swearing at me like a trash mouth.






Remember freedom of speech, I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours.





Wow you have issues. Never, ever, in any of my posts have I ever even implied you as a monster! I only agreed with part of the mom's post dealing with the reality of stay at home mom's, which I said. I don't think it is okay to name call, and pass judgement on people, ever, period. I don't agree with a lot of the things this mom called you, I am sorry if I gave that impression. I do think sometimes you come accross as all "holier than thou" and you are so perfect and that is difficult for some mom's to take, especially if they are having a hard time. Most people simply give their opinion and try not to pass too much judgement with it, but you don't. You not only give your opinion, and then some. You seem to not have any empathy or tolerance for anyone else's opinion unless they agree with you. If they don't then you call them selfish and lazy. You say you research all sorts of things before implementing them with your children. I actually have a hard time believing that because if you did you would know that CIO DOES NOT MEAN LEAVING YOUR CHILD IN THEIR BED TO CRY FOR HOURS UNTIL THEY PASS OUT FROM EXHAUSTION. It is not, and if you actually did research the topic you would know that. It's fine if you don't feel comfortable with that method but DO NOT imply that those mothers that do use this method are lazy or selfish, because they are not. And any mom who says that doesn't know much about an baby's neurological development and the reasons behind the crying when they are going to sleep. I have seriously tried giving you the benefit of the doubt as I said earlier I understand you have a lot on your plate right now, but you seem to only want to harp on people if they don't agree with you. And at only 24 years old you still have some growing up to do yourself. Oh and by the way, look above at one of your previous posts...you did call mom's lazy for putting cereal in a bottle (which I don't agree with anyway) and you called parents who try to train their child to sleep a 10-12 hour long stretch selfish. Do your homework! A baby needs to sleep that long (an older infant, not a newborn). For someone who comes accross as a mom who researches everything and lives and breathes motherhood you don't know much about a babies sleep needs. But you seem to think you are the most educated mom on here.  Jeeze, you do have issues.

Rosalind - posted on 06/08/2009

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okay help...my son is 16 months and wakes up about 4 times a night..sometimes hollering due to gas...but the other is because he cant find his binky...I hate it... Do I need to be concern like that?

Tracy - posted on 06/08/2009

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Well, I count myself as lucky as my little one sleeps throught the night and has done for some time. He will only wake during the night if he is teething or unwell. Very Lucky. I am big believer that creating a good routine for bubba promotes a good night sleep. I know there are some mothers out there that have tried everything and still get no sleep. I really feel for these mums that are woken up through the night and only get a few hours sleep each night and there little one is a toddler. Thats tough!

Jinglebones - posted on 06/08/2009

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the logic is we need a certain amount of sleep and it is tough when you do not get it. Most people understand that babies are different but it does not change the fact that we still have a biological, physical, psychological and emotional need for sleep.

LaCi - posted on 06/08/2009

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my son woke up about every 2-3 hours for the first 8 months of life. I already have sleeping issues, it takes around 1-2 hours to fall asleep. As soon as I fall asleep, kid screams. After a few months of this, I got used it it and fell back into my prebaby insomnia. I rarely slept. I kept the place clean. I cook dinner, every night. Have I let my son cry? yes. When the bottle doesn't work, he doesn't need to be changed, he doesn't have gas, he doesn't care if I'm holding him. What else is there to do? nothing. Yes he has cried himself to sleep. Generally, I cried with him. Is that considered CIO? a baby crying himself to sleep in your arms? I'm not sure. But he's done it. He has cried himself to sleep in his crib as well, he wakes up and falls asleep before I even make it back with a bottle. I sure cried it out. But I did everything I knew to do.

Fortunately now its over. He sleeps all night, usually. Although this much sleep leaves me feeling more tired than I did before. He's happier throughout the day now that he's sleeping better, he used to be quite the tantrum thrower.

He wakes me up with laughter now, and taps on the wall between our rooms for me to come get him. A much nicer way to be woken from slumber than screaming bloody murder.

But yeah, with sleep deprivation, I was irritated for a while, I'm sure I complained. I completely understand wanting your kid to sleep at night. But nothing would help my son sleep any longer. Not holding him all night, not sleeping in the same room, it was always the same. every couple hours screaming child, mommy gets an hour or two sleep per night. That is not healthy no matter how you look at it. So I was annoyed? yeah, I was fortunate to not start with the hallucinations.

Amanda - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Ashley:



Quoting Amanda:




Quoting Ashley:





Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)









Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.












oh so you speak for the majority now do you. you know what everyone is thinking.









I think there are plenty of mom's on here that feel this way. Maybe not how the person feels about you Amanda, but how mom's feel about raising a family, taking care of the household, working, hubby time, in general. and knowing that a good night sleep makes it a hell of a lot easier to do. And that most of the time it is great, but every so often we are tired and overwhelmed and just want and deserve a break. There are plenty of your posts to different threads that imply you are supermom 24 hours a day and do it with a smile to your face...in so many words. Veronica's post just gave us all a little dose of reality, and made us all feel better about the days when we feel worn out.





her whole post was a bitch rant about me. I have never seen such vulger language before.  just nasty I think. so if you say thanks for the post than I guess you agree. Dont try to turn it around. You seem to always have something to say about me ashley, you could not just live and let live as I had asked you long ago.



I never knew being a good mother was a bad thing, researching the decisions for my children I never thought that was a bad thing. like with cio, you say you researched it before you used it well good for you, I also researched it because I have old school grandparents trying to push the method on me. personally I dont agree with the method, if it worked for your kid fine but i know mine would be screaming on end for hours. I do let her cry in bed for up to 5 min or so when i put her down and i always put  her down awake.  she only cries when she is over tired and then she crashes. but back to the point, I did get nasty with bec because of how rude she was not only in this thread but in the thread that she started to bash hard working moms.



I am sorry that some moms cant hold it together almost all the time. I can, and I have had to train myself to do it. I had my first when I was 18 and trust me I was not super mom. I am 24 now and just in the last year I have become much more organized and efficient. I do find the rice ceral in a bottle selfish and that is my opinion. There have been several threads where moms have posted when is it ok to put cereal in a bottle ect, I have never called the moms lazy infact the only thing i say is NEVER, it is never ok because it is a choking hazard.



If you ask me which you probably wont because you have me pegged as a monster, I think veronica (giving her opinion) is just as bad as me if not worse because she is sitting there swearing at me like a trash mouth.



Remember freedom of speech, I am entitled to my opinion just as you are to yours.

Amie - posted on 06/08/2009

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How in the world did this go from a mom asking why other mom's expect their babies to sleep through the night as defined by adults to let's bash Amanda because she's a strong personality? I don't know her but what she does have to say has merit. She's admitted it before in other posts (maybe in this one too didn't read them all) that her strong personality come across aggressively. She doesn't mean to do this (I've seen her post that too) it's just how she comes across. I certainly don't agree with her on everything either but have never felt the need to start swearing at her. It's this marvelous little thing my mom taught me how to do.. it's called ignore and move on. Just because some of you choose to take offense to what she has to say doesn't mean you need to break down and start acting like a child. I thought we were the mom's here.

?? - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)





what are you even talking about? the OP wanted to know why some mothers think young babies and toddlers need to sleep through the night as defined by an adult. what does your post have anything to do with that. And whats with all the F bombs? Is that how you talk around your children?






Yes I have strong views and opinions, but I am not the only one. I have haters sure but so do alot of people on here. I have also had people send me emails thanking me for my opinions, ideas whatever.






I think you are the one that needs to do a little growing up, since you feel the need to swear so much. I just hope your children dont pick up on your potty language, it would suck if they took that to the playground and exposed it to other peoples children when threr parents try so hard to keep them away from ignorant talk like that.





It would suck even worse if your children pick up on your condecsending comments "chicky boo", rude way of "giving advice" and the over all know it all attitude and bring it to the playground where moms who try so hard to teach their children how to speak WITH people and not DOWN AT them have to end up telling your kid to fuck off.



"And whats with all the F bombs? Is that how you talk around your children?" Are you implying that you are a child and can't handle the f word? And who cares if someone swears around their children - my parents/relatives swore around me all the time and I can hold a conversation with ANYONE without saying the F word. I can also go a whole conversation without making them feel like they're doing SOMETHING wrong. I have yet to see you hold any sort of conversation like that.



You can have strong views and opinions, I know I sure do, but like the other lady posted here if you can't remove the rude, arrogant, I'm better than you tone - the majority of what you say means dirt. I'm sure there are some people that thank you - I bet they are also people that you have spoken to only because they were in need of help and it would stroke your ego to hear that thanks.



Anyways. My son is napping - something he normally does around this time, so that he can play for the rest of the evening after dinner to wear him out so he sleeps through the night hahaha so I'm gonna go and do some laundry without him unfolding everything I just folded :P

Ashley - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Ashley:




Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)







Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.









oh so you speak for the majority now do you. you know what everyone is thinking.





I think there are plenty of mom's on here that feel this way. Maybe not how the person feels about you Amanda, but how mom's feel about raising a family, taking care of the household, working, hubby time, in general. and knowing that a good night sleep makes it a hell of a lot easier to do. And that most of the time it is great, but every so often we are tired and overwhelmed and just want and deserve a break. There are plenty of your posts to different threads that imply you are supermom 24 hours a day and do it with a smile to your face...in so many words. Veronica's post just gave us all a little dose of reality, and made us all feel better about the days when we feel worn out.

Amanda - posted on 06/08/2009

645

33

14

Quoting Ashley:



Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)





Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.





oh so you speak for the majority now do you. you know what everyone is thinking.

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