Why is it a problem that babies don' t sleep through the night as adults define it?

Tamara - posted on 06/04/2009 ( 295 moms have responded )

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I see so many posts about how their baby or toddler won't sleep completely through the night as defined by an adult even though babies and toddlers are designed to wake frequently to nurse, seek comfort, etc. I'm just having a hard time how seeing how a a baby obeying its biological imperative is a problem of some kind. Can anyone explain the logic in trying to get a baby/toddler to sleep longer than they are designed to do?

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Amanda - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)


what are you even talking about? the OP wanted to know why some mothers think young babies and toddlers need to sleep through the night as defined by an adult. what does your post have anything to do with that. And whats with all the F bombs? Is that how you talk around your children?



Yes I have strong views and opinions, but I am not the only one. I have haters sure but so do alot of people on here. I have also had people send me emails thanking me for my opinions, ideas whatever.



I think you are the one that needs to do a little growing up, since you feel the need to swear so much. I just hope your children dont pick up on your potty language, it would suck if they took that to the playground and exposed it to other peoples children when threr parents try so hard to keep them away from ignorant talk like that.

Ashley - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)


Veronica...that felt good just to read! Thank you for saying what most of us are thinking! And I consider you supermom for taking care of your 5 kids and still knowing when you need and DESERVE time/sleep for yourself.

Ashley - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Ashley:

To be completely honest, I think there is not enough information out there on proper sleep habits of babies and what to expect based on their age, from newborns to toddlers. I'm sorry to all of those mom's out there who are up a few times a night with their older babies and toddlers, because it doesn't have to be that way. And I only say that to pertain to the babies' sleep needs. If a baby is waking up multiple times per night and they are an older baby, they are not getting enough sleep, which is "food" for their developing brain. I think it is rude and unfair to say a mother is lazy if they let their baby CIO. All babies are different, it is not a foreign statement. I would have been thrilled to rock my baby to sleep, if she actually fell asleep and stayed asleep. She would wake up the minute her head hit the bed. It is not absurd to try to let a baby sleep for up to 12 hours at night. Nor it is absurd to sleep train, in my opinion. This site is supposed to be to help other mom's, not to judge people. Motherhood is based on maternal instinct not on other people's opinions. You cannot say a baby or toddler is not "designed" to sleep for a certain period of time, they are all different. An older baby or toddler wants to sleep for a long period of time at night, could be 10 hours could be 12, each one is different. But they are always growing, always learning, and that requires a lot of sleep...which, like most humans, happens at night. So stop getting down on mom's who are only trying to help their child get the best rest possible.





you know what ashley, the OP asked for opinions not support, she wanted opinions about why some nut jobs expect infants and tots to sleep through the night so I just gave my take on it. You know my feelings on CIO. yes I think it is LAZY, so LAZY and SELFISH .






That is my opinion and I am entitled to it so pleasestop the "circle of moms is a support forum and blah blah blah" it is also an opinion forum when it is asked that we give our takes on diferent views.






That was mine. hey have you not heard that song that says "you have yours and i'll have mine and together we will be fine cause it takes diferent strokes to move the world"






Everyone has an opinion so live and let live





Well Amanda, I have read some of your other posts and I know you have A LOT on your plate with your daughter right now so I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt. I completely agree with giving your opinion...that's what this is for, you are completely right. I don't agree with calling other mom's selfish and lazy= RUDENESS. There are plenty of names I could call you and other mom's on here but i don't. Nobody appreciates having their parenting style judged. And being rude really doesn't give your post any credit or validity. It makes your opinions and advice (which could actually be good) look like crap. Just wanted to make my point clear, in case it wasn't. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not many people will care for it or read it for that matter if it is dripping with condascending, judgemental, rude comments. So if you are going to fill your post with that maybe you shouldn't waste your time.

Jen - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Veronica:

Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!

As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.

I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)


I just have one thing to say:   AMEN.



Sister if you are ever in Phoenix look me up I'm buying you a Starbucks.

Ashley - posted on 06/08/2009

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Well this post certainly got some attention. I would just like to say that I think all of us mom's on here just want what is best for our children. Maybe some kids do fine waking up several times a night and they function fine all day long. However, I think most mom's can agree that their child is much happier when they get enough rest. Having a child sleep all night long has nothing to do with luck, or letting your baby cry in their bed for hours until they pass out from sheer exhaustion. Having a child that sleeps a full night has everything to do with knowledge. There are so many different opinions about child development, nutrition, sleep, etc. The list goes on....But the bottom line is most children that are completely healthy (and I am talking about older babies, not newborns or smaller infants) can and want to sleep all night long (10-12 hours). Anybody out there that is going to argue that, does not know what they are talking about. So any mom that is going to try to make that happen for their child is just doing what all mom's want for their children...the best. Children are constantly growing, learning, and moving so when they do sleep they need a lot of it. "Sleeping through the night" for an older baby/child is 10-12 hours period. If you don't know that you are not educating yourself very well. Yes, sometimes kids wake up at night...don't we all. But the goal is that they go right back to sleep and are given the opportunity to sleep 10-12 hours. That is they are put to bed at a very age-appropriate hour so they wake up at an age-appropriate hour ( like 6-7am). An older baby/toddler is "designed" to sleep 10-12 hours...that's why their circadian rhythms start around 6-7am and shut down around 6-7pm. Again, having a child sleep through the night has everything to do with knowledge, not luck.

Veronica - posted on 06/08/2009

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Amanda Passmore -- Im going to be a brutally honest bitch here --- You are the worst person to ever be online -- and in the circle of moms -- your opinions are nothing but verbal abuse to all of us women who are trying to be the best mothers we can be! I dont think any one of these mothers online is a bad mom - i dont agree with all their methods - but they dont all agree with mine either - so the f*ck what!! Ive learned new things, hopefully helped others, etc. I think you are nothing but a negative, conceted, full of yourself bitch! leave us the f*ck alone, and get a damn life!! im tired of hearing the verbal bashes on these woman! You are not mentally healthy to be on here and try to tell others how to be a mother - who is right and wrong, and that you are better than the rest. I think you are having insecurities with yourself, and you get off bitching at the rest of us! GROW THE F*CK UP!!!!



As for me, i think looking for different ways of how to help your children get to sleep and stay to sleep is a natural thing to question -- i have five kids, i get frustrated when i get woken up at night - but i still take care of my kids. I cuddle them, rock them, and take care of their immediate needs and put them back to bed. I do let my children cry - after they are taken care of! If they still dont go down within a few minutes, i continue to care for them until they do go back to bed! Crying isnt going to hurt them one bit! Sometimes they just need to cry! Sometimes i need to cry!! I never co-slept because i could not sleep worrying about rolling on my baby or my husband -- ive nursed in bed and stuff, but put my babies back to bed when they were done. That does not mean co-sleeping is bad because i couldnt do it. I dont think one mother on here is lazy either. We can BE lazy at times - i dont always clean, cook a full meal, or play all day with my kids, but that isnt an every day occurance, and its because im tired, not in the mood, or whatever -- does not make me a lazy or uncaring mother. Show me a book that says that we should be 24 hour supermothers!! There isnt a such thing, and in fact that is the fucking problem, too many of us try to be - cook, clean, take care of kids, take care of housework, hubby, ourselves, some a job -- you cannot tell me that anyone wakes with a smile and smiles all day and smiles before bed!! everyday of their motherhood!! this is the type of world we live in now a days - im a stay at home mom - and do all these things and am just plum wore out - i am glad when my children are in bed and sleeping cause i can actually breath for a few minutes, relax, or do things that i couldnt while i was being "supermom"all day fucking long!! Of course when they wake up its frustrating! i just spent all day caring for them, and putting myself aside for them - and it will be that way 24 hours seven days a week for almost forever -- does that me i throw myself aside forever too? No -- so shut the hell up and go make your own "Self-absorbed bitch" forum.



I have nothing left to say. (by the way, this statement is my OPINION -- this is what i feel -- not necessarily who or what you are -- just what my opinion is of you!)

User - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Nicole:

FYI: Cry it out is child abuse! that is all.


 



Seriously that is disgusting to say somthing is child abuse because you do not agree with the method.



It is actually called control crying. If used properly it is used for when a child is crying out in bed for no reason at all. It shouldn't be used untill 6 months of age or more as before 6 months when they do cry they do need somthing!



I felt I needed to explain this to you in simple terms!



If you want to run around yelling child abuse keep your comments to yourself I say. No one wants to hear that crap. THAT IS ALL!



I just joined these forums and I won't be staying here long. This will be my last post, people like you make me sick.

Gemma - posted on 06/08/2009

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i have 2 young daughters, 1 of which is 6months and the other is 17 months. my eldest daughter sleeps throught he nite which is normally 9pm til 8am and my youngest goes to sleep about 7pm wakes for one feed then wakes up 7am. i am happy with this as it means they have sum sort of routine which makes my life so much easier being a mum to 2 young babies. both my girls r healthy and happy and that the main priority. each child is different

?? - posted on 06/08/2009

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My son always slept in his own bassinette/crib. And I got up at every single noise. My partner is a very deep sleeper and he was scared shitless that he would roll over and suffocate our baby. I was scared that I would fall asleep and not hear him - I was a new mom, I had no idea how loud/quiet he would/could be and with breast feeding every hour on the hour (later going to every half an hour to 45 minutes) I was getting no sleep so I was scared shitless that I was going to fall asleep and roll over and suffocate the baby!



So he slept in his own basinette right beside our bed and then his own crib about 2 feet from our bed. There was only 3 times I can remember where I fell asleep with him in my arms while he was nursing and I woke up after about 5 minutes having a heart attack cause I thought I was suffocating him with my boob..... so I made it a point of making sure I was awake.



My partner works full time - often overtime because his job calls for it - my parents live 3 hours away, so they come and visit but never stay more than a couple days because we lived in a teeny tiny apartment. His parents both worked and would stop by - his family would stop by and my best friend lived right next door, but she worked full time and went to school full time. So I was alone for the majority of the time for the first 3 months of his life. I loved it, I walked around the house topless the majority of the time cause then I could carry him and feed and do what I had to do. And night time... I slept topless and it was no problems getting up with him.



Then we moved. The night we moved into our new apartment, which was much bigger, was the first night he slept through the night. He had been on formula for about a month at that time because my body could not keep up the milk supply to keep him satisfied and my body physically couldn't keep up any energy level because I was getting zero sleep. So on his own accord, at 3 months he slept from 10pm until 6am and I still got no sleep, it took about 2 weeks of him sleeping like that for me to actually be ok with sleeping and not worrying about him. His crib was just around the corner from us, because his crib wouldn't fit in our bedroom with us and we weren't going to put our bed in the living area. So, we have a baby monitor, even though when awake I can still hear every movement that my son makes. And now at 7 months he sleeps from 10-11pm until 6am, still, on his own and if he wakes up at any other time during the night... I get up with him and sometimes all he wants is a bottle, sometimes he wants to play, sometimes he wants to just cuddle... I may look like a zombie during these eat/play/cuddle times but I look like a zombie with a huge smile on my face.



Anyone who thinks cribs monitors and formula are for parents who don't want the best for their children - get your head out of your ass. If I didn't make those choices, I wouldn't have been doing what's best for my child. Anyone that has a problem with it can suck a lemon lol



We have a routine in our home to keep some organization in our lives - and we have our priorities. We certainly don't stick to the routine religiously and shit happens but every child needs routine, structure and I need structure in my life or I become fizzled out, overwhelmed, unorganized - so with 7 months of gaining that routine and structure in our lives my son has also adjusted to the routine - that leaves plenty of room for the billion things a day that are never the same as the day before. He naps at the same general time, he eats at the same general time and there's nothing wrong with that. If he needs more he gets more.



Anyways, I don't think sleeping through the night is as important as other things but getting sleep is important, for baby and for mom.

Jessica - posted on 06/08/2009

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This is crazy! I thought this thread would be nice and peaceful, Little did I know :). Even though I was never able to complete it successfully I don't believe the CIO method is wrong. I've tried it a couple times with my youngest but I just couldn't do it. There have been alot of accusations on here about laziness, I would just like to say, I AM TIRED!!! I have 4 children and am pregnant with my 5th and to be honest the reason I do feed my 22 mth old when she wakes up is because I'm tired and I want to go back to sleep. I agree that when they're little its not as bad because you have that speacial bonding time but I have bonded, my daughter loves me and I love her, go to sleep already. I stated earlier in the post that it's normal for my kiddos to get up at least once until they're about 2 and even though I am tired I don't have a problem with it. On the other hand I really do envy those mothers who get to sleep through the night. I believe routines for young infants is silly, it's the parents way to take back the control they lost when the baby took over, but I think toddler routines are great. I guess i'm just to lazy to deal with it. To all the moms who can function with very little sleep, more power to you, I used to be one of you. To all the moms who need and get their sleep, I envy you, I used to be one of you too.

Sarah - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Sara:

Here you go. Please not the part where it says that Dr. Ferber never says you should simply leave your baby in his crib and shut the door behind you. His progressive waiting approach allows you to gradually limit the time you spend in your child's room while providing regular comfort and reassurance — as well as reassuring yourself that he's okay.

http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-ferber-m...


exactly!! there's loads of variations on the Ferber method too, and i do believe none of them tell you to leave your child til they're sick!! maybe some of these other mum's having been reading different books to us?? (i'm joking!) :)

Sara - posted on 06/08/2009

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Here you go. Please not the part where it says that Dr. Ferber never says you should simply leave your baby in his crib and shut the door behind you. His progressive waiting approach allows you to gradually limit the time you spend in your child's room while providing regular comfort and reassurance — as well as reassuring yourself that he's okay.



http://www.babycenter.com/0_the-ferber-m...

Sarah - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Sara:



Quoting Sarah:




Quoting Sara:





Quoting Nicole:

FYI: Cry it out is child abuse! that is all.









I am so sick of this statement.  It is made by people who have no idea, though their own ignorance, what different methods that employ crying are about.  Educate yourself on it and realize that you chose to do things one way (like apparently breastfeed your child in a pool) and other people chose another.  It doesn't make another person a bad parent, only different than your narrow-minded ass.












well said Sara! i've said before that i don't understand why people say things like that, a lot of people think mums who use controlled crying are leaving their kids to cry til they vomit and other awful things!! as you say, if they actually read up on it, they'd see that wasn't the case at all!!








again i say after like 6 months babies need SLEEP!! and so do mummy's. i posted a link earlier about sleep deprivation leading to post-natal depression.








thanks again for the spot on comment Sara! :)









Thanks! 






 






Seriously though, does the child is my picture look abused to you?





looks like a VERY HAPPY baby!! i really think the whole 'cry it out' thing has been taken totally the wrong way by soooo many people! my kids don't feel neglected just coz i let them settle themselves, and because i don't rush to their every want and whim! as you say, establishing a routine works miracles!! :)

Sara - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Sarah:



Quoting Sara:




Quoting Nicole:

FYI: Cry it out is child abuse! that is all.







I am so sick of this statement.  It is made by people who have no idea, though their own ignorance, what different methods that employ crying are about.  Educate yourself on it and realize that you chose to do things one way (like apparently breastfeed your child in a pool) and other people chose another.  It doesn't make another person a bad parent, only different than your narrow-minded ass.









well said Sara! i've said before that i don't understand why people say things like that, a lot of people think mums who use controlled crying are leaving their kids to cry til they vomit and other awful things!! as you say, if they actually read up on it, they'd see that wasn't the case at all!!






again i say after like 6 months babies need SLEEP!! and so do mummy's. i posted a link earlier about sleep deprivation leading to post-natal depression.






thanks again for the spot on comment Sara! :)





Thanks! 



 



Seriously though, does the child is my picture look abused to you?

Sarah - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Sara:



Quoting Nicole:

FYI: Cry it out is child abuse! that is all.





I am so sick of this statement.  It is made by people who have no idea, though their own ignorance, what different methods that employ crying are about.  Educate yourself on it and realize that you chose to do things one way (like apparently breastfeed your child in a pool) and other people chose another.  It doesn't make another person a bad parent, only different than your narrow-minded ass.





well said Sara! i've said before that i don't understand why people say things like that, a lot of people think mums who use controlled crying are leaving their kids to cry til they vomit and other awful things!! as you say, if they actually read up on it, they'd see that wasn't the case at all!!



again i say after like 6 months babies need SLEEP!! and so do mummy's. i posted a link earlier about sleep deprivation leading to post-natal depression.



thanks again for the spot on comment Sara! :)

Sara - posted on 06/08/2009

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Quoting Nicole:

FYI: Cry it out is child abuse! that is all.


I am so sick of this statement.  It is made by people who have no idea, though their own ignorance, what different methods that employ crying are about.  Educate yourself on it and realize that you chose to do things one way (like apparently breastfeed your child in a pool) and other people chose another.  It doesn't make another person a bad parent, only different than your narrow-minded ass.

Sara - posted on 06/08/2009

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I think there are different schools of thought on this topic. It's an individual parenting choice, as well as a difference among individual children. You prescribe to one parenting philosophy, some people prescribe to another. My daughter is 8 months old and sleeps 10-12 hours a night, and I have worked to help her get there through establishing a routine for her. If you are a working parent, I don't think there's anything wrong with helping your child to learn to self-soothe and sleep for longer. I agree that sleep is very important and I personally think a lot of night wakings/feedings after a certain point are a learned behavior.

[deleted account]

Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Catherine:





forgetting about what is right or wrong for a babies sleeping patterns .... when the hell do you sleep????









well I get about 6 hours sleep on average a night, sometimes less sometimes a bit more. most nights it is broken sleep and I have learned to adjust. You just learn to adjust. Life is tough and we deal with what we are given, My daughter is failure to thrive so she is on a high calorie diet. she is a year next month and so I have recently been allowing her to sleep more than 4 hours at night. I think when you have a special needs child your body just clicks into over drive and you just do what you have to. It is routine for me and so it is normal. My baby also has developed alleriges and is showing some signs of asthma so my home MUST be dust and germ free because of her. Maybe if she were a normal healthy child I would not be so rigid with things but it is because of her that I have learned to dicipline my self into making sure that her surroundings are as close to perfect as possible.






As far as going back to school, this is for my kids as well. I dont want them to grow up thinking that they have to choose one or the other (family or work) they need to know that if their mother can do it so can they and no matter what life throws at you all you can do is keep moving forward, doing the best you can and accepting things for what they are and not wishing thigs were easier or living life through the "why me" approach.






My older daughter (5) has ADHD, ODD and is on a waitlist for a specialist because her pedi thinks she is showing signs of autisim. I dont know if you have seen the stats regarding say just the ADHD and criminal beghaviour/ lack of further education ect. Well my husband is also ADHD, she is the reason he has decided to pursue a Masters. We lead by example, if our children can see the strugles that we have gone through to provide the best for them than it will hopefully give them the motivation and drive to be all that they can be.






When you take all of that into consideration I would say that sleeps gets put on a back burner and since we have been doing this for so long we have just become use to it.






The best tip I can give an over tired mom (as I have been there so many times) Eat well, and not just moderatly well but really really well, check out any of the books by dr. mehmet oz (he has been on oprah lots)  Also, exercise plays a key role.  and routine and structure within your home.  Another thing is to talk about your feelings with friends or a group or a counsoller. If you are staying as healthy as possible and not getting overly stressed about things than eventually your body will adapt and you will need less and less sleep to function.  If you are living off of take out and fried foods and not getting much exercise and your suuroundings are chaotic than of course you will be tired all the time.





I personally think that an expectation for a baby to sleep through the night is completely unrealistic. My five month old has slept for 10 hours for the past two nights and I will be completely honest, it's been friggin' awesome! Not that I'm now expecting that to be the norm.



My eldest son (6 yrs this week) was diagnosed as autistic two years ago. You really have to learn by experience as the text books don't apply. The best description I heard was "it's like planning a trip to Italy, you read all the guide books, learn the language, get off the plane and you're in Holland". My son is thriving, he's doing so well at school, and nearly all the specialist that have been involved with him from the age of three have signed him off. I completely understand the desire to teach your child that she can achieve anything she wants. No child should be written off because they are different from the "norm".



For me I'm always tired, diet probably contributes to that i'll admit, I only eat one good meal a day and the rest of the day i'm snacking on junk in between chores. I do walk a good 4 miles a day, up and down hills, with a pushchair, so excerise is met, but kinda want to sleep afterwards. My house is chaos. Never been a tidy person and no idea how to get organized. Would love to know how. It's not from laziness, I really try. It's only taken me an hour to write this response as i've been running around the house just trying to get the basics done.

Brenda - posted on 06/08/2009

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The whole idea that a child has to "self soothe" is important to a lot of parents. This is why I'm an attachment parent. I don't believe in the concept of "self soothing" because that's what parents are there to do. A lot of people disagree with me. I co sleep, have since my son was born in the hospital, and the nurses had no problem with me co sleeping in the hospital, and in fact encouraged it. My 4 week old baby boy sleeps five hours at night between feedings. Putting babies on adult schedules, to me, is not condusive to strong bonds between mother and baby during infant years and interferes with independence in later years. I've always fed on demand, breast and bottle, and my nearly 4 year old has no trouble sleeping through the night and has since he was three years old. A lot of people also expect more out of toddlers than they are ready for, and a lot of people believe in "baby training" (another thing I oppose). My husband and I go round and round now and then because he expects more out of our older son than he is developmentally ready to give, and has for a long time. I find it saddening that some people won't let children be children.

Of course, it is all a matter of a parent's decision. I simply choose to raise my kids in as natural a way as possible, and choose natural and attachment parenting to do so. It was funny, I was an attachment parent with my first before I knew what it was. I just knew I was following what my instincts said. I feel very strongly that babies only react to what they NEED. This is based on the fact that a child under 9 months is cognitively incapable of anything except needing, they just do not have the capacity to want. If they wake at night, they need food because of growth. It is hard for some to have their schedules interrupted, but the truth is that infants and toddlers go through growth spurts and they can be painful, and lots of people don't think about that. Just think of the pain we went through when puberty hit. The "growing pains" we all had as teens. Then imagine how much a baby grows in the first two years. So when my little boy needs me to hold and cuddle him, I do, because he may just need some comfort because he's growing so quickly. And to the same thing, if he wakes in the night, he's probably requiring more calories because of that rapid growth. But, to each their own. That's just the way I feel about it.

Charlotte - posted on 06/08/2009

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my daughter was sleeping through at 6 weeks cos she was in a good routine and she needed it. i think that if children are still waking as toddlers especially for feeds this is wrong and should be put in better routines as they need the sleep as a part of development too. being a nursery nurse i know how important it is to be in good routines and to get a good nights sleep however i do also think that children are individuals and if they wake up and learn not to feed as toddlers and just to stay in bed what harm is it doing

Mel - posted on 06/08/2009

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thats fair enough Amanda i know you dont normally pay for health care here but it is my fiances best mate and he and his wanted wanted to get someone that you do have to pay for just to make sure they were correct in thier information. they too said to me they would rather find out earlier and at least it is a diagnosis

Sarah - posted on 06/08/2009

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/196389...

the above is a link to news article that suggests that sleep deprivation can lead to post-natal depression.
sleeping through the night (after 6 months) is REALLY important for baby AND mum.
before 6 months, i think you just have to roll with it, but after that, baby needs sleep!! and of course, so does mummy and daddy and any brothers or sisters!!

Joy - posted on 06/08/2009

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i never cared when my babies didnt sleep through the night it gave we a chance to bond better with them in the wee hours when the rest of the house was sleeping

[deleted account]

In my opinion, firstly I do not think babies are "designed" to do any thing as they all different as some sleep all the way through from the start and others don't, also my son woke up once a night till he was 9 months old purely out of habit as he woke up at the same time every night to have a drink of milk and I found once we cut this out it was what was best for my baby and us

[deleted account]

In my opinion, firstly I do not think babies are "designed" to do any thing as they all different as some sleep all the way through from the start and others don't, also my son woke up once a night till he was 9 months old purely out of habit as he woke up at the same time every night to have a drink of milk and I found once we cut this out it was what was best for my baby and us

Bec - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Bec:

oh and i just love the fact that because i have responded you have judged me to be a mother who puts her baby on a shelf like a toy, condones cio, beats the crap out of her kids - this is what i mean - i disagree with your way and im the bad one - stick it up ur arses!






hey wait a minute was that not you who started the thread about how you hate perfect mothers and you said and I quote " I hate mothers who think they are perfect", you know the ones. they breast feed and think formula by choice is evil ect ect ect. you also said that people judge you because you formula feed, your baby has his own room and you spank. so sweetie you just  walked your self into a trap because all the things that you said that people assume you do ,it turns out that you actually do. like hitting as you said your self in another thread.






If you did not want a backlash you should not have been so snippy to the OP comment. I mean it seems like you really have a problem with us mothers who try to do the very best for our children.





dont call me sweetine you condascending woman! Yes i started that forum cause of women like you quoting ur bloody stats at the not so perfect mums who apparrently dont read and inform themselves of their choices - dont expect that you wont get it back oh and i never mentioned my baby has its own room so alot of assumptions there lovely dear

Amanda - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Bec:

oh and i just love the fact that because i have responded you have judged me to be a mother who puts her baby on a shelf like a toy, condones cio, beats the crap out of her kids - this is what i mean - i disagree with your way and im the bad one - stick it up ur arses!



hey wait a minute was that not you who started the thread about how you hate perfect mothers and you said and I quote " I hate mothers who think they are perfect", you know the ones. they breast feed and think formula by choice is evil ect ect ect. you also said that people judge you because you formula feed, your baby has his own room and you spank. so sweetie you just  walked your self into a trap because all the things that you said that people assume you do ,it turns out that you actually do. like hitting as you said your self in another thread.



If you did not want a backlash you should not have been so snippy to the OP comment. I mean it seems like you really have a problem with us mothers who try to do the very best for our children.

Amanda - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Melissa:

to Amanda - i saw your post about your eldest just wanted to let you know ive seen friends babies that the parents are told they have autism and the parents have paid 1000s of dollars for a good specialist who has told them its not so but some of the other wants have made them concerned. i think sometimes they worry parents un necessarily. just wanted to add that i know it hasnt nothing to do with this thread



well in canada we do not pay for health care so no worries there. And I started noticing the signs early on but thought there was no way my daughter could be autistic just no way, so i never brought it up to the doctor. we were seeing her for my daughters other issues, the adhd and odd and she mentioned that she suspected she was autistic, i still did not tell her i had thoes thoughts so if she suspected without us brining it up i feel it is something that should for sure be looked into.



I guess an early intervention is better than when they are older.

Stephenie - posted on 06/07/2009

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my kiddos are 3 and 20 months-they still wake through the night-it depends on how they wake in the night that determines what I do, my son wakes and cries a little if he cries more than a few minutes I go in and see whats the matter-most of the time he has kicked him blankets off and has gotten cold, i just cover hime back up and asleep he goes, my daughter wakes in the night thirsty and if she cant find her cup than she cries out-she also gets terrible migraines and often has to be sat with for hours to soothe the pain---- my kids slept in my bedroom until they were 1 year old- their bed was right next to mine when they were first born and then across the room when the got to be a few months old. I also find that the longer and more frequent naps are during the day the child will not sleep at night.

infants that sleep in the same room as an adult or another child have a better nights sleeep and lower risk of sids, they hear the person in the room breathing which when a child stops breathing in the night all they need to hear is a sound to restart their breathing that why they make soothing machines and such. my children loved soothing machines but the background noise of a tv worked better(even if they couldnt see it) turning the tv around and just using it for a night light and background noise it wonderful for my kids now age 3 and 20 months

Shannon - posted on 06/07/2009

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my son is 6 weeks old and has only ever woken once a nite at about 3:30 am for a feed, i know i'm lucky and even a few time i've woken him to feed him and he wont, as long as your baby is happy and heathly and you can get some sleep somewhere in the day then it shouldn't matter when they wake.

Lori - posted on 06/07/2009

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ummm . . . so there is a huge difference between someone who would expect a (for example) 2 month old to sleep through the night and therefore resort to CIO and someone who has a 2-year-old who still wakes once every hour or so trying some sleep training methods. Just saying.

Mel - posted on 06/07/2009

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to Amanda - i saw your post about your eldest just wanted to let you know ive seen friends babies that the parents are told they have autism and the parents have paid 1000s of dollars for a good specialist who has told them its not so but some of the other wants have made them concerned. i think sometimes they worry parents un necessarily. just wanted to add that i know it hasnt nothing to do with this thread

Cidalia - posted on 06/07/2009

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It depends on what age they are that people are complaining about. A baby does wake frequently, but the toddler stage is when they should start moving from a baby pattern of sleep to the pattern of night-time sleep they'll need when they become older children. Regardless of whether it's natural or not, the problem is not on the kids' end ...it's a problem for parents who need to sleep at night and can't always sleep when the baby sleeps. Severe sleep deprivation is a special kind of torture. I get frequent migraines when I don't sleep well, so it certainly becomes a problem for me when my 2-year decides to wake up a few times a night, then is up at the crack of dawn, and I have to work that day and start my day with some pain killers.

Erin - posted on 06/07/2009

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I agree that our expectations can be skewed on this matter, adn think sometimes it becomes a bit of a bragging right to be able to say "my baby sleeps through". I was very lucky in that I had a big healthy baby who slept 6-7hr stretches since coming home from hospital, but I certainly didn't expect this!! And I didn't do anything to MAKE it happen (CIO, early solids etc). On the flip side my daughter is a TERRIBLE napper so I guess she makes up for it by sleeping so long at night. She's now 4 months old and sleeps 11-12hrs overnight. But occasionally she will wake for a bottle, or just wake earlier. Do I run to her at the first little noise?? No. Often she will give a little cry for a minute or 2 and go back to sleep. If she doesn't I get up and go to her. Is this an issue to me?? No. Her hunger patterns aren't set in stone.

As for sleep training, I had to do some when my daughter was 9 weeks old, but it was not to get her to sleep longer. I was quite happily rocking her to sleep but she got to a point where everytime I lay her down she would wake up. Without fail. So I just gently familiarised her with the idea of falling asleep in her cot rather than in my arms. CIO troubles me because babies need to be TAUGHT to go to sleep on their own, not just left to cry to the point of exhaustion so they give up. Even though my daughter CAN go off to sleep on her own, sometimes she needs that extra comfort from me (especially atm because she's teething). As frustrating as it sometimes gets going in and out 10 times, it seems unfair to me to deprive her of that....

Bec - posted on 06/07/2009

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oh and i just love the fact that because i have responded you have judged me to be a mother who puts her baby on a shelf like a toy, condones cio, beats the crap out of her kids - this is what i mean - i disagree with your way and im the bad one - stick it up ur arses!

Bec - posted on 06/07/2009

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well to all u mothers who quoted me!!!!
I didnt think all mothering would be perfect, i fact i had my first born at 25 weeks due to severe pre-eclampsia - and no - i didnt cause it! he spent 6 mths in hosp[ital and home on oxygen with further issues. I just cant stand mothers who think everything should be their way and criticise mothers who chose their own way. You act like ur perfect and if mothers choose to sleep with their babies (which i have never done btw) are terrible by posting all these statistics and making them feel terrible for their choice - dont you think they have made an informed choice from these stats and that maybe that is what suits them - just because you have read a bood and quote it, it doesnt make you right. Other people read those books too and choose another option.

Sarah - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Amanda:



Quoting Bec:




Quoting Tamara:

Why is it a problem that babies don' t sleep through the night as adults define it?

I see so many posts about how their baby or toddler won't sleep completely through the night as defined by an adult even though babies and toddlers are designed to wake frequently to nurse, seek comfort, etc. I'm just having a hard time how seeing how a a baby obeying its biological imperative is a problem of some kind. Can anyone explain the logic in trying to get a baby/toddler to sleep longer than they are designed to do?







well you must be a bloody perfect mother then! Ur telling me u have never felt a little grumpy when you havnt had enough sleep or they are sick for a while? You must also have little angels - mothers like you should write a book and tell the rest of us who get a little emotional from time to time how to manage ourselves as mums









oh my god, seriously?she asked for the logic behind making babies sleep throught the night and here I see a selfish mother who obviously thought when she had a baby it would be all grins and giggles. Are you kidding me bec? any reasonable human being would know that a baby will wake up every 2-4 hours and that there is no maigcal age when they just automaticly sleep through. Sure there are things to make them sleep through or more ignore them like CIO where every good mother knows that if your baby wakes up crying and you just leave them and not see what is wrong that it is neglect and that when the baby finally does learn to "sleep through" with cio they are simply just giving up the hope that mom, their protector and nurturer will ever come. i think it is the cio moms who give all moms who dont cosleep a bad name. And all the moms that defend this CIO practice are just mad becasue they know what I said is true and they feel guilty so they feel the need to justify their selfish actions. Bec a baby is not a toy that you can simply place up on a shelf when you are done playing mommy, the baby is there all the time weather you like it or not and there needs must be met when they cry.






I think your right about one thing, maybe the mothers with realistic expectations and knowledge of infant development should write a book so that the selfish mothers who think when their pregnant that their baby will be is cute little happy thing that never makes a fuss can get a wake up call.





i seriously do not personally know one single mother who would not get up in the night if her child started crying. i do not personally know one single mother who thinks that their baby is a toy.



loads of you seem to think CIO involves leaving your child to scream for hours on end. again, i do not personally know one single mother who would do that.



i don't know what kind of mothers you know, but jeez, i'm glad all the mothers i know (and that's loads!) are nothing like the monsters you're describing!

Amanda - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Bec:



Quoting Tamara:

Why is it a problem that babies don' t sleep through the night as adults define it?

I see so many posts about how their baby or toddler won't sleep completely through the night as defined by an adult even though babies and toddlers are designed to wake frequently to nurse, seek comfort, etc. I'm just having a hard time how seeing how a a baby obeying its biological imperative is a problem of some kind. Can anyone explain the logic in trying to get a baby/toddler to sleep longer than they are designed to do?





well you must be a bloody perfect mother then! Ur telling me u have never felt a little grumpy when you havnt had enough sleep or they are sick for a while? You must also have little angels - mothers like you should write a book and tell the rest of us who get a little emotional from time to time how to manage ourselves as mums





oh my god, seriously?she asked for the logic behind making babies sleep throught the night and here I see a selfish mother who obviously thought when she had a baby it would be all grins and giggles. Are you kidding me bec? any reasonable human being would know that a baby will wake up every 2-4 hours and that there is no maigcal age when they just automaticly sleep through. Sure there are things to make them sleep through or more ignore them like CIO where every good mother knows that if your baby wakes up crying and you just leave them and not see what is wrong that it is neglect and that when the baby finally does learn to "sleep through" with cio they are simply just giving up the hope that mom, their protector and nurturer will ever come. i think it is the cio moms who give all moms who dont cosleep a bad name. And all the moms that defend this CIO practice are just mad becasue they know what I said is true and they feel guilty so they feel the need to justify their selfish actions. Bec a baby is not a toy that you can simply place up on a shelf when you are done playing mommy, the baby is there all the time weather you like it or not and there needs must be met when they cry.



I think your right about one thing, maybe the mothers with realistic expectations and knowledge of infant development should write a book so that the selfish mothers who think when their pregnant that their baby will be is cute little happy thing that never makes a fuss can get a wake up call.

Amanda - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Catherine:



Quoting Amanda:




Quoting Kylie:

First off, Vanessa: I think you made a couple interesting and valid points, however artificial human milk is a very negative way to describe formula and it shouldn’t have been lumped into the same category as teddy bears with artificial heart beats! How unfair. Breastfeeding is a wonderful thing but consider yourself lucky it worked for you and your child but it certainly doesn't make you a better mother than those who feed their babies from a bottle.
Amanda you asked a similar question to this a few weeks ago because so many mothers on here continually ask why isn't my baby sleeping through?! What can I do to make them sleep all night!? And it’s because they have unrealistic expectations about babies sleep habits brought about mainly by the idea that a "good baby" is a baby that goes to bed and isn't heard from until morning. I believe Co-sleeping is an excellent way for some family's to get more sleep and its been happening safely for centuries, a baby in a cot in its own room is a result of a western consumer driven society tricking parents into buying all these things. Nurseries are for parents, not babies. I also think it’s a lot harder for parents who have no extended family help to deal with a baby waking every few hours. I am so very grateful my Mum is only a phone call away and will come hold my son for a few hours so I can get my ironing done or have a nap when I need it. This doesn’t make me a lazy or unorganized parent and I think it’s really sad some parents don't get that extra support from outside the immediate family and turn to the CI0 method, putting cereal in bottles and these books on sleep training because they are not coping.
My 4 yr old didn't sleep through the night in her own bed until she was two, looking back I don't remember the sleepless nights at all I remember her being a happy contented baby who got her mummy whenever she needed/wanted her. I wish she had stayed a dependent little baby longer she’s growing up way too fast :( Lucky I have my baby boy who slept through yesterday night but was up for a feed every 2-3 hours last night eek fun fun fun







no, parents are lazy if they need to result to putting cereal in a bottle and letting their baby CIO. they are unorganized if they cant keep up with kids and housework. I was like that for a long time. Now I have a system and it works, my kids are cared for, my house pretty clean aside from a few toys on the floor now and again, I cook at least 5 dinners per week but we also go out once as a family and once on a date my husband and I . I also run a home daycare, have just started working with motivated moms and I am a part time student and still find time to go to the gym a few times a week so yes if someone cant take care of 1 child while on mat leave without help everyday I would say they are unorganized. My husband is doing a masters in economics and political studies and he works in the evenings so we dont see him from 6 am to 8 pm on  a bad day, often it is me alone with my 2 kids (1 and 5) and my day care kids (1,2,3) I was tired of chaos and disorder and found that just being structured and organized helped me to get more done in a day without going insane.









forgetting about what is right or wrong for a babies sleeping patterns .... when the hell do you sleep????





well I get about 6 hours sleep on average a night, sometimes less sometimes a bit more. most nights it is broken sleep and I have learned to adjust. You just learn to adjust. Life is tough and we deal with what we are given, My daughter is failure to thrive so she is on a high calorie diet. she is a year next month and so I have recently been allowing her to sleep more than 4 hours at night. I think when you have a special needs child your body just clicks into over drive and you just do what you have to. It is routine for me and so it is normal. My baby also has developed alleriges and is showing some signs of asthma so my home MUST be dust and germ free because of her. Maybe if she were a normal healthy child I would not be so rigid with things but it is because of her that I have learned to dicipline my self into making sure that her surroundings are as close to perfect as possible.



As far as going back to school, this is for my kids as well. I dont want them to grow up thinking that they have to choose one or the other (family or work) they need to know that if their mother can do it so can they and no matter what life throws at you all you can do is keep moving forward, doing the best you can and accepting things for what they are and not wishing thigs were easier or living life through the "why me" approach.



My older daughter (5) has ADHD, ODD and is on a waitlist for a specialist because her pedi thinks she is showing signs of autisim. I dont know if you have seen the stats regarding say just the ADHD and criminal beghaviour/ lack of further education ect. Well my husband is also ADHD, she is the reason he has decided to pursue a Masters. We lead by example, if our children can see the strugles that we have gone through to provide the best for them than it will hopefully give them the motivation and drive to be all that they can be.



When you take all of that into consideration I would say that sleeps gets put on a back burner and since we have been doing this for so long we have just become use to it.



The best tip I can give an over tired mom (as I have been there so many times) Eat well, and not just moderatly well but really really well, check out any of the books by dr. mehmet oz (he has been on oprah lots)  Also, exercise plays a key role.  and routine and structure within your home.  Another thing is to talk about your feelings with friends or a group or a counsoller. If you are staying as healthy as possible and not getting overly stressed about things than eventually your body will adapt and you will need less and less sleep to function.  If you are living off of take out and fried foods and not getting much exercise and your suuroundings are chaotic than of course you will be tired all the time.

Nicole - posted on 06/07/2009

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"Sleeping through the night" is just silly. Parents want this for their own adjendas rather than allowing things to progress in a natural way. I think the "sleep through the night" business is just a marketing ploy from the formula companies (in observation, formula feeders that chose to ff not the moms who have legit resons to ff, seem to be the most preoccupied with the sleep thing. why not? they are already going against nature). So I cannot explain, I can only comment on the idiocy I see. By the way, I went back to work at four weeks and just sucked it up as far as lack of sleep.

Kylie - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Bec:



Quoting Tamara:

Why is it a problem that babies don' t sleep through the night as adults define it?

I see so many posts about how their baby or toddler won't sleep completely through the night as defined by an adult even though babies and toddlers are designed to wake frequently to nurse, seek comfort, etc. I'm just having a hard time how seeing how a a baby obeying its biological imperative is a problem of some kind. Can anyone explain the logic in trying to get a baby/toddler to sleep longer than they are designed to do?





well you must be a bloody perfect mother then! Ur telling me u have never felt a little grumpy when you havnt had enough sleep or they are sick for a while? You must also have little angels - mothers like you should write a book and tell the rest of us who get a little emotional from time to time how to manage ourselves as mums





Wow, why you flipping out on Tamara? Feeling guilty much? She was asking you to explain the logic behind "sleep training" babies and toddlers… this had nothing to do with her being so called perfect because she’s happy to be there for her child 24/7. I wake up sometimes 6 times a night, I get grumpy but it doesn’t inspire me to want to start using CIO. I saw your thread on hating perfect mothers ...seems like you have a grudge because you spank and support CIO? Get over it.

Kylie - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Bec:



Quoting Tamara:

Why is it a problem that babies don' t sleep through the night as adults define it?

I see so many posts about how their baby or toddler won't sleep completely through the night as defined by an adult even though babies and toddlers are designed to wake frequently to nurse, seek comfort, etc. I'm just having a hard time how seeing how a a baby obeying its biological imperative is a problem of some kind. Can anyone explain the logic in trying to get a baby/toddler to sleep longer than they are designed to do?





well you must be a bloody perfect mother then! Ur telling me u have never felt a little grumpy when you havnt had enough sleep or they are sick for a while? You must also have little angels - mothers like you should write a book and tell the rest of us who get a little emotional from time to time how to manage ourselves as mums





Wow, why you flipping out on Tamara? Feeling guilty much? She was asking you to explain the logic behind "sleep training" babies and toddlers… this had nothing to do with her being so called perfect because she’s happy to be there for her child 24/7. I wake up sometimes 6 times a night, I get grumpy but it doesn’t inspire me to want to start using CIO. I saw your thread on hating perfect mothers ...seems like you have a grudge because you spank and support CIO? Get over it.

Tamara - posted on 06/07/2009

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Quoting Cathralynn:

I think, maybe I am making assumptions, that when people are talking about CIO or sleeping thru the night most pple are talking about older babies. At least 6mo, but definately a year. But as I understand it (and I don't want to offend), you tamara, are applying the comfort and tend to their needs thing indefinately no matter how old. And that is fine too. But that is where I think its good to teach self soothing and independence. I want my daughter to be able to calm herself at night or when she hurts herself cause I will not be able to always be there for her when she's bigger and think that is a good place to start. But although we disagree, please don't think I ignore my daughter when she's hurting or let her scream for hours. So not true. Its case by case. There are different cries and different reasons for those cries and as a mother I go through the different ways I have to solve them. I resorted to CIO at 8mo only when I knew my daughter was going thru separation anxiety and going in at all was making it worse. For my personal reasons, I do not like co-sleeping, but do not judge others for their decision to do so. Each mother has their own way and each child is different. Hope this lets you understand me a lil more. Have a good day!


You are correct in that I comfort and sooth the needs of my child, no matter her age.  She could be 5 and need me to give her a hug or what not in the middle of the night and it would be ok.  It makes life easier on all of us.

Angela - posted on 06/07/2009

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What you have is balance. You meet her needs and then allow her the independence to self soothe. Great job!!

Kimberly - posted on 06/07/2009

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my daughter is 5 weeks old and a few days. She has slept thru the night since before we left the hospital. She is exclusively breastfed, sleeps quite well thru the day as well, has active time for longer stretches. The only time I let her cry herself out is if i have already fed her til she pulled herself off the breast, changed her diaper, played with her, checked to see if she had any sore spots or anything. IF she continues to cry thru all that then i let her CIO but it only lasts 5 minutes or so til she tuckers herself out and goes to sleep but never in vomit or a dirty diaper.

Its not laziness that parents would like the baby to sleep thru the night but its also not realistic for the most part. Babies should be on a schedule but not for several months, It never hurt anyone to be up a few times a night, think back to when you were teenagers and stayed up all night, this is no different you are just a little older and have a purpose for being awake.

Angela - posted on 06/07/2009

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As a parent of 2, I can honestly say that I don't think that it is a matter of trying to get them to do something unnatural like sleep longer. If they wake it is for a reason. But once their needs are met/satisfied they do need to have some independent self soothing and the ability to fall asleep on thier own. If they don't then you will never get past that waking up a dozen times phase. The biggest mistake I made with both of my kids is not teaching them self soothing. Now at 3 years old, my son wakes up 2-3 times a night and can't go back to sleep without me. My 8 year old still wakes up through out the night and has difficulty going back to sleep. She is getting better but my son won't go to sleep or go back to sleep without assistance. In this case not only is he not getting enough sleep but I am not either. So you have to find the balance between enough support and reassurence, and enough independence/self soothing.

[deleted account]

To a certain extent I would say go with the flow. Anyone who thinks a young baby will sleep through the night is going to be dissapointed when it is born. Their are exceptions, but as a general rule, most babies get up several times when they are newborns. Even after this stage it will still happen. Even toddlers wake up in the night sometimes and get scared or they get you up at 'stupid o-clock' in the morning.



I'm not writing this post to be judgemental in any way, I just think that some moms to be out there have high expectations of what their little one will and won't do. Having said that, I can understand that moms need sleep in order to care adequately for their little ones. Perhaps the best people to seek advice from in extreme situations is a ped/health visitor because none of us know the babies that don't sleep or what the parents have already tried or what they are going through.



My advice is be realistic unless their is extreme sleep deprivation.

[deleted account]

Quoting Bec:




Quoting Tamara:

Why is it a problem that babies don' t sleep through the night as adults define it?

I see so many posts about how their baby or toddler won't sleep completely through the night as defined by an adult even though babies and toddlers are designed to wake frequently to nurse, seek comfort, etc. I'm just having a hard time how seeing how a a baby obeying its biological imperative is a problem of some kind. Can anyone explain the logic in trying to get a baby/toddler to sleep longer than they are designed to do?







well you must be a bloody perfect mother then! Ur telling me u have never felt a little grumpy when you havnt had enough sleep or they are sick for a while? You must also have little angels - mothers like you should write a book and tell the rest of us who get a little emotional from time to time how to manage ourselves as mums







I know I don't think I'm perfect, but I don't have expectations that babies should to things that they aren't biologically able to do. I guess I see expecting an infant to sleep through the night as like expecting a newborn to be able to sit up properly. Or expecting my 9 month old to be potty trained by now. It's not like I love cleaning up dirty diapers or anything, but I did plan to be a mother knowing that it was part of the deal. When I get emotional about the sleep deprivation - and I do - I don't try to change my son's behavior (since it is normal) I try to change mine. I get my husband to take the baby while I get a nap, or just a few moments away. And we certainly have our bad nights here - the baby was quite sick this week, and I a few nights I hardly slept at all. But I know this behavior won't last forever, and I see value in comforting my son, even in the middle of the night, right now.

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