Woman compares forced c-section to rape

Tamara - posted on 10/07/2009 ( 34 moms have responded )

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http://www.lemondrop.com/2009/10/05/woma...|wbml-aol|dl7|link4|http%3A%2F

I can't say I disagree with her. She's already had a successful VBAC and the hospital is attempting to force her into a surgery that she neither needs nor desires. I think her quote is especially appropriate as there are many hospitals that ban VBAC "They don't want to allow VBACs because she said they aren't equipped for emergency C-sections, but if they can't do emergency C-sections, they shouldn't be having labor and delivery at all."

What do you folks think?

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Jeanine - posted on 10/07/2009

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I think that is the SILLIEST thing I have read in a while, ON BOTH ENDS! If you do not like your options, go somewhere else. Instead of throwing a fit be a strong person and take your birth elsewhere. Comparing it to rape is just silly. Be a smart woman and do what you feel would be the right EVEN if that means seeing a new Doctor or transfering to a new hospital. Don't play victim.

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Sarah - posted on 10/09/2009

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It our bodies we should be able to have natural births. I think its our right. Haveing c-cections for insurance reasons and the doctor's conveinience is ridiculous and unfair.

Sarah - posted on 10/09/2009

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It is all about insurance for the doctor's. In order for them to be insured someone needs to be with you at your bedsite the whole time. No one wants to cover this cost. It sad because its all about money.

Alyssa - posted on 10/08/2009

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Quoting Angel:

The hospital I gave birth to explained it to me like this: When a VBAC goes bad the mother dies about 95% of the time and that leaves at least 2 children in the world without a mother, the one born via c-section and the one born via VBAC. Given that fact, they were not going to accept the legal actions of allowing a procedure that could end so badly. They did tell us that we were free to go to a different hospital if we wanted a VBAC. Having worked with insurance carriers I also know that insurance companies like women to have VBAC's because it is cheaper. Right now we still have that choice, to go somewhere else.


Huh?  You are very misinformed...or your doc/hospital is and i would find a new one.  Only .4% of women will rupture their uterus in a VBAC of that .4% only 10% will have serious complications that could result in death.  That is a VERY VERY small number.

Crystal - posted on 10/08/2009

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First off, rape is a very violent crime, and that word should NEVER be abused (like I feel it was in this lady's complaint). Please lets use that word for the literal translation.

As far as the issue, I had to have a C-section for my first since my baby, Trent, was too big for me to have normally. I had the C-section, found out how painful & inconvenient it was (after the baby was born of course. I got pregnant with Rhiannon, and asked my doctor about a VBAC, and she told me of the horrors of what would happen if the VBAC goes wrong. That did it for me, Rhiannon was born by C-section. Believe it or not, the C-section the second time around went a lot smoother (less painful) than the first. I don't regret it a bit. I do feel that things would've not turned out great for either birth had I had them naturally. I am grateful for my both of my doctor's advice on both occasions. The doctor who told me the VBAC risks is a doctor who I feel was very trustworthy, caring, and very much in the know.
***Side note on C-sections*** - Make sure the morphine button works, because it didn't on my first, and it was PAINFUL!

Maria - posted on 10/08/2009

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This is unfortunate because I had a better experience with VBAC than I did with an emergency C-section. As much as my husband and I respected my gynecologist, I can't say much about the anesthesiologist and the nurses that were working in the operating room with him. They gave my doctor a hard time. The anesthesiologist didn't give me enough epidural, I felt the incision. And to add insult to injury, I didn't get cleaned up until that night when the night nurse came in my room. And I had my operation that morning at 10 am! It was a very traumatic experience for me. And this was to save my son, who was breech at birth and his head was stuck in the birth canal. Personally, I think the reason for the push on c-section, is because the HMO makes more money than VBAC.

Barbie - posted on 10/08/2009

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I have been pregnant 5 times, 2 lives births. Both c-sections. First one almost 18 years ago. My sons heart rate sky rocketed so c-section was agreed on by the doc and myself. I was told by my doc with the second baby less then two years ago that a vbac was not an opption. And he gave all the reasons why. But Im the kinda of person who believes in vaginal birth whenever possible. Even though i have never had one.

However im also a God fearing woman who believes these babies are not ours they belong to Christ and we are blessed to have the opportunity to bring them into the world and raise them according to His will. And I also think that these docs are suggesting c-section for the safty of the baby. The grown woman can do whatever she wants to. But when it comes to the baby, who is unable to decide for his/her self we have to put them first. If these woman are vain or worried about scaring and bikini season, they are selfish. If they have a doc who has been around and seen alot of death or near death (to the baby) and we have not seen 'it all' then we should listen to them. Unless you can find a dr who'll do it, and they are out there, then find one who'll do a vb after c-section.

Barbiedoll

Melissa - posted on 10/08/2009

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Quoting Jeanine:

I think that is the SILLIEST thing I have read in a while, ON BOTH ENDS! If you do not like your options, go somewhere else. Instead of throwing a fit be a strong person and take your birth elsewhere. Comparing it to rape is just silly. Be a smart woman and do what you feel would be the right EVEN if that means seeing a new Doctor or transfering to a new hospital. Don't play victim.



yea i dont believe it is rape, ive been raped my ex husband and this is no comparisson. that is just a lazy doctor wanting to schedule his surgery for his convience. i agree i wud take my business else where and not stay if i wasnt happy, or if there was nuthn medicallyy wrong or reason 4 the c-section, but to compare to rape is ludicrous.

Melissa - posted on 10/08/2009

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yea i think if their is no reason 4 the c-section and there wasn't a prior one done y do it? i had all 4 of mine naturally and would never want a c-section inless it dangered my baby? so to force it upon someone is ethically wrong and u can refuse that. we as patients have the right to refuse medical treatment at any time, im in the medical field and in school so im learning alot about the in's and outs of this world. doctors due things 4 their convience and not ours and it isn't fare. if everything is normal i would demand a natural delivery. or switch docs!

Gerri - posted on 10/08/2009

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If you had ever had to TRY to resuscitate a baby that died because of a VBAC gone wrong, I do believe you would change your minds about the "safety" of doing this procedure in a hospital not equipped for it. Not to mention, having to go to a court room and testify for the same case in which this terrible tragidy happened. All because a woman wanted HER choices...not really what was good for that perfectly formed little person that she was carrying.

Danielle - posted on 10/07/2009

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It's not like the hospital is forcing her to have a hysterectomy. They are looking out for the safety of her and her unborn child.

Danielle - posted on 10/07/2009

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Quoting Shameron:



Quoting Danielle:








Quoting Shameron:

I completely agree with this woman. The rate of complications with a vbac is at 1%.








 








One percent complication is enough for me.  How do you know that you're not going to be that one percent?  Why risk the complications?  It boils down to there is no right or wrong way to deliver a baby.  The goal with both is the same...a healthy child, not a dead one.













  Even giving birth at all increases the chance of having a successful birth. 



 



Um, don't forget to look at the flip side as well.  Giving birth also increases the chance of uterine rupture and/or other complications.  I believe that this woman is being very selfish and creating alot of drama.





 

Sharon - posted on 10/07/2009

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hhmm anyone remember "coffee is hot @ mcdonalds"??? yeah - disgusting.

Shameron - posted on 10/07/2009

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Quoting Sharon:

unfortunately - in some cases hospitals & the government have to protect people from their own stupidity.

You're right - no one wants to be accountable for their own actions.


Haha.  Don't get me started down that path.  I abhore people who cannot take responsibility for themselves and their actions and I abhore the fact that society lets them do it.



I am a firm believer that sometimes you have to touch the stove and find out for yourself that it's hot and a stupid choice.  After you do so, you'll likely never ever do it again.  In our culture what we get (if we make life a stove analogy) is a ban on stoves altogether and if someone does touch that stove then that person is consoled and told about how awful the stove is and how they should set out to destroy it.



I personally find it disgusting that we are training people this way.  We are enabling people to be incompetent fools by allowing them to pass off blame where there should be an attitude of "well, you made a mistake, learn from it".

Sharon - posted on 10/07/2009

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unfortunately - in some cases hospitals & the government have to protect people from their own stupidity.



You're right - no one wants to be accountable for their own actions.

Shameron - posted on 10/07/2009

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Quoting Sharon:

Good point about the risks of a c-section.

But you're wrong - it is the hospitals choice. They are a business. They get choose what services they offer and this is one they don't offer. Frankly, I'm inclined to think they've had a higher than average screwup on VBACs and that is why they CAN'T offer them now. And who would want to deliver under those circumstances?

And beyond both the hospital and the womans choice - the baby will decide how its born by its presentation.


True it is the hospital's choice, i just hate that a hospital has more say in a woman's rights because of people who go into risky situations where the risks were laid out before them and then cannot take responsibility for their own actions and sue. I would like to be able to live in a society where people are able to make their own decisions and then, have to live with those decisions on their own.  But that would require that people take accountability for their own actions and that factual and un-tilted information is handed out.



A lot of times people fail to realize that there is a .69% chance of uterine rupture without a previous c-section done before and a .80% chance after a c-section.  The "less than one percent"  is not less than one percent more than those who have never had c-sections before.  And hoenstly, once you introduce infection, fetal brain damage, kidney failure, adverse reactions to medications, and the other complications that go along with c-sections into the picture, you are not looking at a safer pregnancy. 



There are chances for complications with EVERY pregnancy and it all depends on the situation.

Sharon - posted on 10/07/2009

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Good point about the risks of a c-section.



But you're wrong - it is the hospitals choice. They are a business. They get choose what services they offer and this is one they don't offer. Frankly, I'm inclined to think they've had a higher than average screwup on VBACs and that is why they CAN'T offer them now. And who would want to deliver under those circumstances?



And beyond both the hospital and the womans choice - the baby will decide how its born by its presentation.

Shameron - posted on 10/07/2009

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Quoting Danielle:






Quoting Shameron:

I completely agree with this woman. The rate of complications with a vbac is at 1%.






 






One percent complication is enough for me.  How do you know that you're not going to be that one percent?  Why risk the complications?  It boils down to there is no right or wrong way to deliver a baby.  The goal with both is the same...a healthy child, not a dead one.








Because the thing that is often left out is that there are also risks involved in c-sections as well.  How is one risk better than the other?  The reason I agree with the woman is she has already given birth after a c-section once.  Even giving birth at all increases the chance of having a successful birth.  There are other factors that are normally left out of the reasons for complications with VBACs.  Also, there are ways to minimize the risk that people talk about.  In trial by birth a pregnant woman attempts to give birth, if there are any complications, or pushing goes past an hour a c-section is done.  Ultimately however, it is not the hospital's choice on how a child is born.  If the mother feels that the risk of VBAC is worth it to her, then it should be her choice.  No one elses.

Danielle - posted on 10/07/2009

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Quoting Shameron:

I completely agree with this woman. The rate of complications with a vbac is at 1%.



 



One percent complication is enough for me.  How do you know that you're not going to be that one percent?  Why risk the complications?  It boils down to there is no right or wrong way to deliver a baby.  The goal with both is the same...a healthy child, not a dead one.



Mary - posted on 10/07/2009

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I think it's just inflammatory rhetoric, plain and simple. I have a hard time trusting an article that talks about placental "eruptions"...whatever the hell they are! (note to self...research this bizarre condition on AWHONN's website).



Bottom line is, no is FORCING her to have a C/S...if she is CHOOSING to go to a hospital that does not perform VBAC's, then SHE is choosing a C/S, plain and simple. Really, it's not that hard...find another facility to birth at. I have to question her priorities here...is her birth experience more important than the safety of her unborn child? Why in God's name would you want to deliver your way at a place that is telling you they are not equipped to handle any potential emergencies? Chances are this is a more rural area, and a small community hospital, that does not have the necessary personnel available 24/7. Most hospitals like this do not have in-house anesthesia around the clock...an essential for a facility to safely allow VBAC's. She needs to deliver elsewhere...or accept the care that this hospital says it can safely provide. My guess is she would be unwilling to sign a waiver releasing said hospital form ANY liablility if they allowed her to have her way.

Sharon - posted on 10/07/2009

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I agree Danielle - if I didn't trust my OBGYN - they wouldn't be my doctor!

Danielle - posted on 10/07/2009

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Quoting Melissa:

thats horrible geez i wouldnt allow that to happen if i wanted a natural birth.



You can't always get what you want.  YOU are the one responsible for making informed decisions.  I completely trust my OB/GYN and I would respect his opinion regarding any decisions I had/have to make.

Danielle - posted on 10/07/2009

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When I was pregnant with my youngest, I asked my OB/GYN about doing a VBAC. My first child was born by scheduled c-section due to a car accident I was in. My OB/GYN pointed out the risks of doing a vbac. The first of which is your uterus ruptures, with the possiblity of killing both mom and baby. That was all I needed to hear! I wanted a healthy baby and I wanted both of my girls to have a mother. I live in a very small community. We do have our own hospital, but it is small. They don't have the staff on hand for emergency c-sections. If indeed it is your choice to choose how you deliver, it is also your choice to see a different doctor. Go somewhere bigger!

Danielle - posted on 10/07/2009

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When I was pregnant with my youngest, I asked my OB/GYN about doing a VBAC. My first child was born by scheduled c-section due to a car accident I was in. My OB/GYN pointed out the risks of doing a vbac. The first of which is your uterus ruptures, with the possiblity of killing both mom and baby. That was all I needed to hear! I wanted a healthy baby and I wanted both of my girls to have a mother. I live in a very small community. We do have our own hospital, but it is small. They don't have the staff on hand for emergency c-sections. If indeed it is your choice to choose how you deliver, it is also your choice to see a different doctor. Go somewhere bigger!

Isobel - posted on 10/07/2009

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not that I agree with it...there are lies, damn lies, then there are statistics...they can be bent and manipulated to suit just about any agenda...look at me (I sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist today)

Isobel - posted on 10/07/2009

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I think the difference in the statistics is that one includes all women with VBACs, the other is "when it goes bad" meaning that they don't just have normal complications...the most common complication is death.

Tamara - posted on 10/07/2009

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Quoting Angel:

The hospital I gave birth to explained it to me like this: When a VBAC goes bad the mother dies about 95% of the time and that leaves at least 2 children in the world without a mother, the one born via c-section and the one born via VBAC. Given that fact, they were not going to accept the legal actions of allowing a procedure that could end so badly. They did tell us that we were free to go to a different hospital if we wanted a VBAC. Having worked with insurance carriers I also know that insurance companies like women to have VBAC's because it is cheaper. Right now we still have that choice, to go somewhere else.


Did your doctor give a link to that statistic?  As every analysis I can find pins the deathrate at around 2.8 per 10000 women.  A study published in the American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynocology has the maternal morbidity rate at 1.6 per 100000 http://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378%2...

Sharon - posted on 10/07/2009

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I'm curious to see what will happen with the courts decision.



But if that is the hospitals policy - she needs to look elsewhere. Stop sniveling and find another hospital.



Giving birth doesn't always go as planned. As moms we have to stay flexible in case of emergencies.



I don't agree with the hospital - but to me it sounds like they've had issues before and maybe now can't get insurance to cover the riskier (says them) procedure.



When I planned my births, I found doctors and hospitals that agreed with ME. If they weren't willing to work with me I kept looking for a hospital that did.



With my second child I stayed in a hotel in another town so i would be close to the hospital that I had chosen to give birth at.



If she dosen't like their policy - she needs to move on.

Isobel - posted on 10/07/2009

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Thank the capitalist health care system...for a doctor's insurance company VBACs are risky, and when they fail are VERY expensive. This woman is trapped in a very unfortunate position.

Angel - posted on 10/07/2009

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The hospital I gave birth to explained it to me like this: When a VBAC goes bad the mother dies about 95% of the time and that leaves at least 2 children in the world without a mother, the one born via c-section and the one born via VBAC. Given that fact, they were not going to accept the legal actions of allowing a procedure that could end so badly. They did tell us that we were free to go to a different hospital if we wanted a VBAC. Having worked with insurance carriers I also know that insurance companies like women to have VBAC's because it is cheaper. Right now we still have that choice, to go somewhere else.

Shameron - posted on 10/07/2009

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I completely agree with this woman. The rate of complications with a vbac is at 1%. The problem is, hospitals just don't want to expend the extra resources it takes to have a VBAC. A VBAC requires a doctor to be present at all times. This hurts the doctor if they have other things they need to do. It just seems like with the c-section rate so high there will eventually become a point where all births are done by c-section to limit lawsuit and other stupid things that can come from a regular birth.



I am pregnant with my third child. My first was a c-section, my second was VBAC and I fortunately found a doctor in my area who will not only do VBAC, but in most circumstances recommends it. She takes percautions to make sure it will go as smoothly as possible, such as a transvaginal ultrasound before the birth to make sure the uterus is a certain thickness, applying primrose oil to the cervix to soften it. She also has two midwives who are always on duty to help out with other births. I can't imagine having to be forced into a c-section at this point. I think i would be livid. My first c-section was because "the baby was not progressing quickly enough" and seemed like a violation then. Now, without even trying after I have already successfully given birth vaginally once before, it WOULD INDEED be a violation.

Mel - posted on 10/07/2009

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thats horrible geez i wouldnt allow that to happen if i wanted a natural birth.

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