Wondering what beliefs about God do you have? And why?

Apryl - posted on 11/25/2011 ( 213 moms have responded )

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I'm always amazed how people come to the beliefs they have. Are they something that you picked up from someone else or is it something that is innate in you that makes you believe beyond what you see around you? Just looking for honest and healthy discussion on the topic....NO JUDGEMENT here.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Brandy - posted on 12/01/2011

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"Love how everyone needs to have facts."

I don't need facts for spiritual beliefs. I have my beliefs...but I don't try to pass them off as facts, because they are not. They are truths that are personal to me. What you are trying to do is pass off your personal truths as the only absolute truth - which they aren't.

"Yes, I provided facts from the Bible."

Like I said in my last post, anything SPIRITUAL cannot be proven just yet, hence you did NOT provide facts from the Bible. You provided Biblical passages that have specific meaning FOR YOU.
What would you say to the Christian who reads those same passages and came up with a very different interpretation than you have provided? Are they wrong? Or are you? That's the point I was making above...when it comes to belief, NO ONE is right or wrong. It's all personal opinion and interpretation...and we all see things from different perspectives based upon our personal experiences.
Faith, religion, and spirituality have NO absolute truth. They can be taken no further than personal truths, until concrete proof is provided. The Bible is NOT concrete proof of any spiritual facts. It is only personal interpretation of the written word.

"I am referring to the ONE WHO is ABSOLUTE TRUTH....GOD"

Like Krista said, this is in YOUR opinion. My opinion differs. Who is right? Neither of us. Just as neither of us is wrong. It is all PERSONAL to each of us.

Apryl - posted on 11/25/2011

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Thanks to everyone who posted. I grew up in a home that said they believed in Jesus Christ but none of the actions I saw in the home looked like what I was taught in Catholic school. So I had mixed feelings and beliefs about who God was and what His role was in my life. Coming from a Catholic background I felt alot of guilt and condemnation for any actions that did not match the rules that I was told was right yet no relief or reward when I did what I thought was right. This lead to a rebellious behavior in me up to my early 30's. I now know because of a lot of rules being placed on me without having a relationship with the people who were stating they were wrong lead me to rebellion. After a few years of hardships and slow triumphs without any sense of inner fulfillment, I came to wonder what is the real purpose for coming to this earth and going through life's journey? With that question came alot of events that changed my thinking to realize it was my perspective on life that caused me to doubt, mistrust, and not believe that a higher power could actually care about me and want more than I personally could imagine for myself. After a major loss in my life, I came to realize I had been depending on my own actions to get what I want in life, and still was coming up short from what I wanted. Then one day, I decided to think outside my box and ask the God I had heard so much about being so loving, kind, joyful, peaceful, patient, good, faithful, gentle, and self-controlled to possibly show me if there is anything else what I was put on this earth to do and to help me to do it. Now almost 12 years later, I can see (in hindsight) how all the things up to that point of asking was Divinely orchestrated even though I thought i was making my own decisions and choices without God in it. It amazes me how I selected a person very similiar to my father for my child even when he initially didn't seem anything like him. How I seemed to be able to place my trust in men who were untrustworthy all because I was looking to fill the void of my soul for a father that was unavailable. While all the while God was using these people and circumstances in my life to mirror those thoughts and beliefs that I actually had to then remind that they all were just that....a belief system that was contrary to what His Divine Word tells us is TRUE. Now after continuing to pray, study learn, and to apply all that I have read in the Bible. I know, that I know, with confidence that what is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH
can only come by way of the One I submitted my life to some 12 years go....Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world.

Oh I used think, "Why are Christians standing on the corner shouting out like a fanatic to people who could care less about what they are talking about?" What do they believe the Bible is true when they weren't around to see who wrote it? Why are there so many different denominations in the world? Why does everyone who believes in Jesus Christ seem to be so adamant about Him being the ONLY way to God? But know after going through enough heartache and upset and realizing that life will bring trials and tribulations that are not according to our plans, I can still have all those qualities as God has only by Him empowering me to do so. All other things that we attempt will only be TEMPORARY while for me JESUS is the stability I can rely on regardless of the various storms of life that may come.

He gives me PEACE no matter what is going on, He gives me COMFORT when I feel low, He GUIDES me when I don't know what to do, and He LOVES me no matter how much I don't get it right according to the Bible. I have learned to discipline myself with spending time getting to know what is in the Bible and to then ask Him to HELP me be able to do what He impresses upon my heart to do and amazingly in time my life begins to reflect what is in His Word.

Although many don't believe that the Bible is true, I can confirm and be a witness to the many events that have taken place in my life that have been made KNOWN to me that it is God's little smile in my life although I don't SEE Him physically. Because they are things, I have asked Him to help me with and sometimes immediate and sometimes later there is a KNOWING that you can't explain to anyone who has no REAL relationship with Him. It is a gift that is only activated once we ask Jesus into our lives and then the spiritual blindfolds are removed from our eyes to see things beyond what is physically in front of us and to know with certainty that it is a move of God.

So to all those who don't believe, I challenge you to try JESUS and then let me know if you have the same belief after asking Him to help you in your life. If you are daring enough to try Him, these are the steps I took almost 12 yrs ago that have changed and enhanced my life with "PEACE that passes all human understanding".....

1) Admit that you are a sinner (meaning your actions are not good enough to meet the standards of God)

2) Believe in your heart that Jesus Christ died for you to save you from sin (He is the only person who is supernatural (100% man and 100% God) to be a TRUE mediator for a sinful humanity.)

3) Confess it with your mouth out loud that He is Lord and Savior and you want Him to come into your life and become Lord over your life.

The biblical reference that explains these steps are found in Romans 10:9-12 and state the following:

"9Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.

11The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him [who adheres to, relies on, and trusts in Him] will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed.

12[No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith]."

If you wish to read the entire chapter related to this, here is the link....http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?sea...

Hoping Eternal Peace and Abundance to all!

Kimberlea - posted on 11/25/2011

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I believe. More so now than ever before. I like this quote (no idea who said it) and I find it appropriate for this discussion..."To believe with your eyes is proof; to believe with your heart...FAITH." It gives me comfort to know that there is a higher power, God, who accepts me as I am - unconditionally, flaws and all. Confessing my sins doesn't not mean keeping a laundry list of everything I've ever done wrong, it simply means acknowledging that I am not perfect. The best part of that is that He already knows that and loves me still. God Bless... ♥

Alessia - posted on 12/06/2011

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I just wanted to comment on this statement made by Barb: "the "to each his own" attitude works if you're an atheist"

Just because I don't believe in god doesn't mean I don't care about other people. My philosophy on life has nothing to do with "to each their own", but rather that we are all responsible as one human family to care for eachother. The notion that ALL atheists are nihilists is quite wrong. Some of the largest benefactors in the world (Warren Buffett, Bill Gates) are atheists and I don't see them practicing a philosophy of "to each their own".

:)

Johnny - posted on 12/05/2011

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"We love Him not because it's in our best interest... We love Him because of Who He is. "



You see, as a non-religious person, I only consider people who follow this to be Christians. All of that Pascal's wager stuff about what will happen to you if you don't believe and what will happen to you if you don't find a path to Jesus and such, seems like so much self-protection and self-absorption. It doesn't sound like faith, it sounds like fear. It seems to come from a bad place and a poor reading of the bible. Even though I do not believe in the bible as the true word of God, I have read it. And Jesus' message certainly didn't seem to be about choosing to follow him because you are afraid of what will happen if you don't



I used to work in a church mission, with some amazing people filled up with faith in how to live their lives more in line with Jesus' teaching. They all knew I was an atheist, yet not once was I questioned, cajoled, or bothered about it. They simply lived their faith, and hoped that if it touched me too, I would come to share it. I never have, But I know that for many, the power of their faith makes their lives into great events that touch and benefit people here. Something that ranting and raving about it never comes close to doing.



Earlier in this thread, people were simply sharing their beliefs and how they came to them. I like to hear these stories, religious or not. I like to know why YOU came to Jesus and that it has improved your life or what have you. I can share how my beliefs have shaped and benefited my existence. But I have no interest in telling you why you should not believe, even though I have many reasons that I think that you would be better off. Just as I have no interest in being told why I should believe, even though you may have many reasons to think that I should.



These conversations have the most meaning when we share our own experience, not when we tell others how to experience. I suppose I can understand the enthusiasm to "save", but it really achieves the polar opposite almost every time.

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Johnny - posted on 12/06/2011

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I have read the bible, and I did not find it to be True in any greater sense than any other fiction tales. Often peppered with bits of other stories, historical and mythical, cobbled together from a multitude of sources and stories that occurred throughout history. But that's what I got out of it. So no, I don't tend to think that the story of Jesus is real or that he rose from the dead.

There is evidence of many people during Roman times being crucified, probably one of them easily could have been a teacher who claimed to be the son of God bringing a new message to his people.

The ascribing of a virgin mother to great people was common at that time. Many believed that Alexander the Great's mother was a virgin as well. And Jesus was not the first guy people thought rose from the dead. The bible and the story of Jesus specifically just didn't make me feel like they held any special Truth in my life at all whatsoever.

I never really experienced any traumatic thing that drove me from religion. My father was an atheist, so I knew of the option of non-faith. My mother is spiritual. I sought out religion as a child and a teen, mostly because I thought I might be missing out on something. I just realized that whatever it was that all those other people were feeling about god, I just don't. I wanted to believe, I thought it would be nice, but like someone else mentioned earlier, you just can't fake it.

I am not angry at God at all, it is pretty impossible to be angry in something you don't believe in. For me, God, Jesus, has the same reality as Santa, leprechauns, and angels. They all do teach special lessons in their stories that we can use to enrich our spirits and understand our purpose, but for me, they just are not real. Although certainly not something to get angry at.

I do find that if any thing could personally actually drive me farther from believing than I already am, it would be the believers who speak of their absolute belief in the the literal truth of the bible. When I read people making statements that the earth was only formed 6000 years ago and humanity began with Adam and Eve as honestly wholly believe truths, it causes me apprehension, fear for our future, dismay, and more than a bit of shock. I just can not suspend my understanding of things based in evidence for a life based solely on faith. For me, seeing this consistent connection between faith and ignoring the facts tends to make me turn ever further from it. And as soon as they begin telling me how much better my life would be if I could just suspend my disbelief, well, I just find myself unable to take that seriously as well.

Barb - posted on 12/06/2011

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I'd like to throw one more thing out there. Jesus Christ IS the God of the Old Testament as well as the New. He may go by many names but He's the same God.

Kate CP - posted on 12/06/2011

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"...I just wanted to comment quickly on one recent comment: "For people using the Bible as "proof" of god. It isn't. There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a supreme being." I disagree. I see evidence of a Supreme Being everywhere I look. Not just in nature, but in the things people create and do (knowingly or not). It's amazing to me. So... "no evidence" is your opinion! "

I actually agree with this. I see God everywhere I look. I don't need a book to tell me that God is there for me. Just because I don't believe Jesus was the messiah doesn't mean I don't have faith in God. I'm just not Christian. :)

Barb - posted on 12/06/2011

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Wow, some of you are working hard to pick apart others opinions..... :) If you're going to argue so strongly about others views being their "opinion" just remember that your views are opinion as well....
I just wanted to comment quickly on one recent comment: "For people using the Bible as "proof" of god. It isn't. There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a supreme being." I disagree. I see evidence of a Supreme Being everywhere I look. Not just in nature, but in the things people create and do (knowingly or not). It's amazing to me. So... "no evidence" is your opinion!

Brandy - posted on 12/06/2011

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@Apryl -

Again...IN YOUR OPINION. It is only YOUR OPINION that we need the "Holy Spirit" to make sense of the spiritual aspects of the Bible. It is only YOUR OPINION that we don't have proof because we don't have the "Holy Spirit". Everything you have ever stated has been YOUR OPINION only.



Like I said, I have a very different OPINION...but I'm not sitting here saying that the only way you'll come to know MY truth is by calling on such and such God at such and such hour and when you bear your heart soul you will KNOW the TRUTH of the Celtic deities.



There is a world of difference between knowing something to be true (a fact) and believing something to be true (faith). Facts are universal. Beliefs are personal.



Now I'm off do something very Pagan...decorate the Yule/Christmas tree with my kids. :)

Apryl - posted on 12/06/2011

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What I stated prior to all that you are arguing is that the HOLY SPIRIT and the BIBLE confirms it for me....something you need in order to "make sense" of anything that is Divinely revealed. So your right, you don't have proof because you don't have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you without FIRST believing in Jesus Christ. Just explaining why He qualifies as the ONLY way, rather you believe or not is up to you to make the choice to take the steps first mentioned in my original post to find out if it is true or not. 'Cause that is only way those who don't believe will ever know any further from what "LOOKS" illogical.

Krista - posted on 12/06/2011

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But Alessia! Everything in the Bible is true! How do we know? Because the Bible says so.

See what I did there?

Alessia - posted on 12/06/2011

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No. I do not think Jesus existed. His story is a plagiarized mish-mosh of the story of the Sun God Mithra (who rose from the dead 3 days after he was killed) and the Egyptian god Osiris. Just as pagan holidays were incorporated into Christian one, so was the story of Jesus.

For people using the Bible as "proof" of god. It isn't. There is no scientific evidence for the existence of a supreme being. If the reasoning for this proof is "because the bible says so", then I must put forward the notion that Hogwarts and Harry Potter are true because I read about them in SEVEN books.

Krista - posted on 12/06/2011

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Um, no, Apryl. You BELIEVE that he rose from the dead.

There are plenty of other possibilities out there, you know.

I guess that's sort of my main beef with religion overall. Anything that's at all mysterious? God did it. Anything that we can't yet explain? God did it. Anything to which we don't yet know the answers? God did it.

There are so many other possibilities out there. Just because we don't know the answer to something, that is not PROOF that your god, or ANY god, is responsible for it. I could claim that invisible leprechauns stole Jesus' body, and would have just as much proof as you do.

Believe all you want, but please stop insulting everybody's intelligence by acting as though your belief is some sort of irrefutable proof. It's not.

Kate CP - posted on 12/06/2011

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Wait, because you can't find Jesus' remains you think that's proof he existed and was the messiah? How does that make sense?

Why hasn't his tomb been found? Could be because when he was buried he was a poor Jew and wasn't a rich king or noble. So he didn't have the money for a tomb or burial chamber that would leave his body well preserved. OR, it could be that it is a REALLY FRICKIN HUGE desert and finding ONE body out there is like looking for the proverbial needle in a haystack.

Liz - posted on 12/06/2011

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Darlene,



In answer to some of your points:



"Did you ever hear of Adam and Eve? Christianity was the FIRST Religion...God walked in the garden with Adam and Eve...Gen1:27..."



These events occur according to the Bible, which means that they occur according to Christian belief. You cannot use them in order to prove anything in the Christian faith, because that would create an infinite logic loop. Also, as others have said, Christianity did not come into being when humans did (however you believe that happened) but after Jesus Christ lived, by definition! Incidentally, I do believe that there was such a man, but I do not ascribe any divine nature to him nor do I believe that he rose from the dead.



"People can choose whom or what to believe in, just because people were not taught in a christian way or home, does not mean that God will not call to their conscience an let them know that he still loves and wants them."



You see, what you're doing here is saying that although people can believe whatever they want, only Christians are correct. I'm really not sure why you cannot understand the simple concept that telling other people that what they believe is wrong is rather insulting. It's fine to tell them that you don't believe the same as they do, as I do not believe in the same way as you. Me=right and you=wrong is not an approach that will ever give you credibility or authority.



"The devil also has convicting powers, he can cause any one person to believe what he wants so when they pass on, he will collect them. It still comes down to a choice...Whom do you believe? God or the Devil?"



Neither. My concept of the divine is not the same as yours and I don't believe that the Devil exists at all. The fact that you DO does not mean that the Devil's existence is factual and proven. You're also just rehashing the same argument of 'me=right and you=wrong' by implying that all non-Christian beliefs are false and inspired by an entity that is part of your belief system only.



"That is what I want and it took only God to show me the truth."



The truth as it appears to YOU.



"People often live in fantacy"



The only fantasy in my life is the Science Fiction and Fantasy genre literature that fills one of my bookshelves. :) I don't live in it, though I did do Live Action Roleplay when I was younger. Note that I'm not choosing to interpret your words the way that you probably intended them, because then I would be finding them offensive. It's easier this way! :)



"I do believe he is real, I have seen his work many times in my own life, my 7 year old daughter prays and her prayers are answered. I do not tell her who or what to believe in, she just has faith. As I have said: I live my life before her and who all enter into my life...Words are not necessary, when you walk in faith, it shows! Who can refute that?"



Nobody is refuting that you have a particular faith and that you feel it to be at the root and core of your life and that of your family. All we are refuting is that this proves the existence of anything or that your way is the only correct way. You believe, which is fine and admirable. You cannot and do not _know_. If you did, it wouldn't be faith anymore, but merely observation of an empirical truth.



"Faith, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT SEEN"! Just because we can't see it, feel it, touch it, does not mean it is not real! "



It doesn't mean that it IS real either.





"All I am saying is have an open mind to other beliefs, not people. You may just be surprised as to what you see."



I do, which is why I am open to things other than Christianity. :)

Brandy - posted on 12/06/2011

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@Apryl - you forgot to add "in my opinion". ;)



How many other bones of people have not been found? Um, I would bet A LOT. That's not proof of anything but that a supposed (remember, I said it possible he existed, not that he for sure did) man's bones haven't been found yet. That's really drawing at straws. If that's what gives you conviction, then that's fine. But yeah, that doesn't work for me.



BTW...my beliefs don't have a "leader"...so really, no bones to find there, either. My beliefs are OLDER than society needing a religious leader to look up to



So, in your opinion, "JESUS is the ONLY way to a TRUE relationship with God...He is the ONLY one that rose from the dead and therefore is the ONLY one that qualifies!"

My opinion differs.

Apryl - posted on 12/06/2011

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To those who do not believe God was a special man above any other man, How come they have never been able to find His body (bones at this point)? Because of this, we as Christians KNOW (and is confirmed by the Holy Spirit that lives in us, and by the Bible) that He rose from the dead. No other leader of other so called religion or denomination can say that without proof of the remains. So JESUS is the ONLY way to a TRUE relationship with God...He is the ONLY one that rose from the dead and therefore is the ONLY one that qualifies! (No, it's not politically correct, but it is BIBLICALLY correct!)

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 12/06/2011

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Kim Abel Hill you marked my post as funny.......what was funny about it? just wondering

"okay it is Hinduism as the oldest Organized religion...still strong today"

Apryl - posted on 12/06/2011

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Tam, the example of prayer given to us in the Bible by Jesus, is the Our Father (Matthew 6:9-13). Through out the New Testament there is numerous reference of prayer for those who have FAITH for "In order to please God, you must BELIEVE that He is." Jesus, prayed in John 17 asking for believers to be One just as He, The Spirit and the Father are One....That prayer is actually the "Lord's Prayer although Catholics believe the one in Matthew is the Lord's prayer. As believers in God we can ask Our Father for ANYTHING because we are considered His children and we get special priviledges just as your children would over strangers (or less intimate people in your life).

A lot of what the Bible offers anyone can only be SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED with the help of the HOLY SPIRIT...because without His help you are pretty much spiritually blinded from the things God wants to reveal to us. In Proverbs 25 vs 2, It states how it is the Glory of God to conceal a thing, but the glory of kings to search it out. Kings refer to the kings and queens of God who use the Bible and its reference to confirm other parts of the Bible that were not written by the same people and at different times. This in itself is AMAZING that the Bible can confirm itself with being put together by men who were God inspired to bring forth the same info at different time periods.

Prayer is just communication to God....I talk to him like I'm talking to anyone I know in my family or friends, I express my disgust about some things I have not come to a revelation on and I am often just GRATEFUL to be in His presence to be able to tell Him I Love Him just for Loving me enough to send Jesus to save me and to have this relationship....It's such a LOVE that does not compare to anything else on earth I have ever experience and it grows BETTER and BETTER as I get to know HIM BETTER....Just like a friend you've grown to learn and trust over years of knowing them. No other person, can give you the continual PEACE, LOVE, JOY, PATIENCE, KINDNESS, GOODNESS, FAITHFULNESS, GENTLENESS, and SELF-CONTROL as He does....all without me deserving it one bit given my human frailties. I can't HELP BUT SHARE when I see someone without Him.

LOVE is the one thing that can be the happiest thing in the world but can also cause us so much pain....yet we still search for it. There is a place put in us that is set apart only for God that every person that is created is on a journey to find. God is a loving God however He USES pain in our life for HIS PURPOSE....too draw us closer to Him. He is a GOD of relationship and by any means will He use things in which we become TOO ATTACHED, to help us realize they will not fill that space reserved for Him. So prayer is just that opportunity to invite Him into our lives, even though He knows it all, HE is a gentleman and wants to be invited out of respect for you, the one He created.

Brandy - posted on 12/06/2011

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@Apryl - yes, I believe it possible Jesus existed. He was a man among other men of his time. I believe he was spiritually inclined, like Buddha. He was a teacher who taught people how to live better lives, just like Buddha. But that's where my belief ends in regards to Jesus and Christiainty.

Was he from God? Well, I believe we are all from the Creator, so yes...but so am I, so are you, ect. So he wasn't special in that regard. Was he divine, as in a God himself? No, I don't believe so. I believe as Krista does...that his divinity was a legend that grew up after his death.



No, I don't believe he rose from the dead. Either that is simply a story to garner support for the new religion of Christianity...or he didn't truly die on the cross at the moment that is claimed.



I also believe that the things written in the Bible about what he said was either misinterpreted by his followers, or what he originally said has been so lost in translation that people today interpret it much differently than what was actually said/meant (I lean more towards this view). I have been quoted "the way, the truth, the light" quote so many times...and I honestly believe that has been misinterpreted from the original texts for conversion purposes.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 12/06/2011

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okay it is Hinduism as the oldest Organized religion...still strong today

Brandy - posted on 12/06/2011

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@Darlene - Um, I haven't had any really bad experiences in life to turn me from your God. In fact, my life is actually very blessed...and I am a Pagan. However, have YOU noticed that YOU have had really bad experiences in YOUR life and have found the Christian God? I notice a trend in Bible-thumping Christians...all the ones I have EVER talked to have had some horrible life experiences (abuse, drugs, alcohol, ect.) and suddenly they have God in their lives and everything is good. It's probably because as a society that throws Christiainty in your face as being the only correct religion, it's one most of us know...and in a time of self-crisis, it is the one most people cling to. Anyway, that's fine if that's what suits you....but realize it was your choices that pushed your belief, just as it's my choices that push my belief.



Like I said before...life experiences will push us one direction or another. But someone saying we must have a belief in the same thing they do or we "have no idea what God can do"? Um...WRONG. I am Pagan. I believe in a Creator and many Gods and Goddesses under that Creator. Just as you have had meaningful experiences with your God, I have had meaningful experiences with the Gods I believe in. You may call Them devils or Satan. I don't care. But I do believe what a Creator is capable of, just as you believe. (There is no "know", as that would require proof, and personal experiences aren't proof.)



You say to have an open mind...but yours is shut so tight you have tunnel vision. If you want us to consider the possibility of you being right, then you need to consider the possibility of us being right. Or simply concede that NO ONE is right or wrong and we all have the beliefs we do because of the experiences in our own lives, not simply because we want to piss off Christians and/or their God.



As to the rest of your post, I won't reiterate what Krista said, but I agree with her.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 12/06/2011

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I think..(dont quote me) the Sumerians were one of the first people to have what we call religion....no? I should go look that up

Groovy Girl - posted on 12/06/2011

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Darlene,
I read your whole post and you had me until you started talking about heaven being made of gold mansions.
Kinda reminds of another religion that believes when they go to heaven they will be with 41 virgins. I get the concept of having faith. I veer away from religion when such descriptions of what is to come are so detailed by someone who has never been there yet......

Tam - posted on 12/06/2011

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Your post brings up an interesting point, Darlene, that I have noticed is a general assumption made about atheists and non-religious types.

I've never had a traumatic faith moment. I was raised in a relaxed Baptist home. But I never became angry at god nor did I have any sort of spiritual crisis to drive me away from Christianity. So many people seem to think that a crisis of faith has to be the reason that people don't stick with religion and it's almost insulting. Just as you said you have looked into other perspectives in faith, so have I. I haven't even found Christianity wanting. It simply is not for me, therefore I choose not to believe.

And you didn't posit this in your last post, but in response to an earlier entreaty to hedge the bets against a hell in the afterlife by going through the motions - wouldn't that actually be a contradiction of the very commandments that Christians are called to uphold? I don't believe in a higher power, but on the off-chance that there is, would it not be insulting to show up in church for pretension's sake, while being absolutely disinterested and disbelieving? It smacks of lying, and the commandment to refrain from such is one of the most readily identifiable tenants to your Bible.

One more thing I did want to ask. And please, I am not attacking, but asking for your opinion as a person of faith. In my studies of the Bible, which I have read several times, never have I seen it written that prayer should be used for anything but praise for the Christian god and possibly his messiah. Yet I see a lot of people speak of prayer as though it is a method of request. Most people in my life who pray usually pray for THINGS, be it a change of circumstances, a certain sequence of events, material gain, and the conversion of others to the faith that you believe they should have. Yet anything I could ever find in the Bible itself is that prayer exists to sing praise to the creator, nothing more. Of course, I cannot quote chapter and verse even though I have read the thing cover to cover, so perhaps you or someone else may have some insight on this question.

Krista - posted on 12/06/2011

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But I do have another question after reading all the Non-Christian comments. Do you believe Jesus existed and do you believe He rose from the dead?

I think it's possible that he existed. I've heard that there is evidence that he did not, but have not reviewed the evidence as of yet. If he did exist, I believe that he was a pacifist and a teacher, and had some very good lessons to impart. Which is why I find it so sad that so many self-professed Christians in the US are combative and anti-intellectual. [And no, I know most are not like that, but the ones who are? They're making an awful lot of noise. Especially politically.]

I do not, however, think that he was divine, in any way, shape or form. I believe that his alleged divinity is simply a legend that grew up around him after his death.

Krista - posted on 12/06/2011

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Danielle. Please.

1. Christianity was not the first religion. Not even according to the Bible. If you go by the Bible, then Judaism was the first religion. Adam and Eve had no idea who Christ was. Christ hadn't even been born yet. How could they be Christians?

And if you go by actual recorded history, then there were PLENTY of religions that were around prior to Judaism. Hinduism is the oldest religion that is still being practiced.

2. The choice isn't solely between God and the Devil, you know. Plenty of people believe in other gods. Or no god at all.

3. You're contradicting yourself. On one hand, you mention other cultures' faiths, and ask who's to say whether they're right or wrong. And yet, in the very same post, you just completely ignored the existence of those faiths...faiths that are much older than yours. And you also implied that the only choice for all humanity was between God and the Devil -- which also completely ignored those other faiths.

So do you think that other faiths have validity or not?

4. Just because we can't see it, feel it, touch it, does not mean it is not real! That's true. However, that does not also mean that faith automatically means that something IS real. Nobody knows. That's why it's faith. And it's fine to have faith. What is NOT fine is to act as though the things that you believe are proven, irrefutable facts that we're all just too stupid to see.

5. You're operating under the assumption that people who do not believe in God only do so because of a negative experience, or because (in the words that someone else said to me) we're "mad at God". I can no more be mad at God than you can be mad at Zeus. How can you be angry with something you don't believe in? I had no negative experiences with religion prior to admitting my atheism. I just did not believe. If you can understand why you didn't believe in Scientology or Buddhism, then perhaps you can understand why I do not believe in Christianity.

Apryl - posted on 12/06/2011

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Wow.....Can't believe this topic is still going FULL THROTTLE!

I loved reading ALL the posts, no matter what your belief. I am a person of STRONG convictions and really wouldn't take to anyone beating me over the head about what they believe especially if i do not believe it. But I do have another question after reading all the Non-Christian comments. Do you believe Jesus existed and do you believe He rose from the dead?

Darlene - posted on 12/06/2011

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Did you ever hear of Adam and Eve? Christianity was the FIRST Religion...God walked in the garden with Adam and Eve...Gen1:27...God created man in His Own Image...male and female created he them...People can choose whom or what to believe in, just because people were not taught in a christian way or home, does not mean that God will not call to their conscience an let them know that he still loves and wants them. The devil also has convicting powers, he can cause any one person to believe what he wants so when they pass on, he will collect them. It still comes down to a choice...Whom do you believe? God or the Devil? The devil will take you farther than you ever want to go, then there is hell fire and damnation...or you can choose God who gives an eternity in Paradise...That is what I want and it took only God to show me the truth. People often live in fantacy, do whatever you choose and when you die, you are just gone...The Bible tells us that we will have everlasting life in the city of Gold with Mansions he went to prepare for us. My grand mother at 98 yrs old believed in God so much that she was actually given a knowledge unknown to me...she told my husband that God told her that I would have 3 deaths in my family in 1 year...He never told me because he wanted to spare me any pain...Sure enough my Father died, then my sister and finally my Grand Mother in Canada...all within 12 months of each other. So, how did she know that if she were not serving God? I do not know for sure if they went to heaven or not, only God knows that, I do believe in the after life...What about the Egyptians, they had many gods and when they were burried it was usually with great treasures. What about the Indians, they believed in God's, and the Catholics, the Muslums and so on, they all have beliefs...Who is to say that they are right or wrong? Only God knows for sure, he hears our prayers and will answer in his time and not always in the time we would like, nor are the answers always what we want, but he hears and answers prayers, in his way and what we NEED not want. I was not brought up in a christian home, my parents were both Canadian Catholics, my mother more. But that woman had the gift of decernment as did my grandmother. When they prayed, prayers were answered. My brother in law was a known athiest, but finding no comfort there he turned to God. My nephew lived with me for one year, the kid was a true heathen, then started to go to church with us (never once pressured him) Now, he is married to a wonderful christian girl, living in Arizona and is saved by the glory of God and living a pure, clean christian life. My sister, married to the Athiest, now living a christian life. I never once put any pressure on my OWN family to serve God, but yet look at that! They chose it on their own, I lived my life before them and they saw how great my life is and wanted the same. God can work thru people, if you are not ready then he is patient and true just waiting for who so ever to call on his name. I do believe he is real, I have seen his work many times in my own life, my 7 year old daughter prays and her prayers are answered. I do not tell her who or what to believe in, she just has faith. As I have said: I live my life before her and who all enter into my life...Words are not necessary, when you walk in faith, it shows! Who can refute that? "Faith, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things NOT SEEN"! Just because we can't see it, feel it, touch it, does not mean it is not real! I will always refer to faith, because I have seen the work of God in my life, and I know what he has done for me. My testimony is: I was raised in an alcoholic home w/ fighting and abuse, I smoked, did hard drugs (in the 70's) drank alcohol, cussed like crazy, did all I could to rebel, but one day God talked to my heart and I ignored it then after a few times I listened and I got saved. The great thing about that is...Once your sins are forgiven, they are put in to the sea of forgetfulness, never to be remembered again. That is a true work of God.

If anyone can refute that then they have no idea what God can do. I have had more wonderful things happen in my life thru God, but to share them at this time would be in vein because I do not think that the people who have not experienced a work of grace and do not believe, then they would not understand. But, ask any one who has walked through life and has had sorrow, hard times or whatever, they will tell you what their testimony is if they have turned their lives over to God, he has and will turn your life around. It is so simple. Yet people today who have a bad taste in their mouth due to some bad experience because some one claims to have salvation and does not, then I can undrstand why people would shy away from God. My point is, try to look at it from a different angle or perspective. I have checked into scientology, budist, different religions and I was not satisfied but I did look outside the box so to speak, but nothing gave me what I was searching for. All I am saying is have an open mind to other beliefs, not people. You may just be surprised as to what you see.

Barb - posted on 12/06/2011

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I just want to clear up one thing if I may. I was a bit puzzled by Alessia's critique of my comment on "to each his own"... Then Brandy had a similar reply so i guess it was my lack of being clear? I simply used that terminology to refer to the many comments posted by those who were saying what each of us believes is fine ... I wasn't being critical and I didn't mean to imply that those people don't care about others or anything. Was just saying that if one doesn't believe in God or an afterlife then what people believe about those things is mostly irrelevant. But if you believe in those things then what you believe ABOUT them becomes important. That's all I meant by that. I don't think atheists being "benefactors" has anything to do with the point I was making so that's why I think you misunderstood me. Or at least read more into what I was saying.  Sorry. I'm trying to be as brief as possible in my comments! :(

I also want to add that even tho I was trying to garner understanding for Christians who feel the need to do this, I don't agree with the practice of beating people over the head with the Bible. I've eluded to that in an earlier post. If we believe God is God (as I do!) then we ought to learn to hear His Voice and be led of the Spirit and be witnesses to people as He directs us. In all humility....

Brandy - posted on 12/06/2011

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@Barb -

"I realize that the "to each his own" attitude works if you're an atheist, for example."



Or a Pagan. :) Or pretty much any non-Christian. I understand what you're saying with the Christian mindset, and being told once is fine. It's being beaten over the head with it constantly that bothers me. The coat metaphor that Tam used and that Krista elaborated on is really a very good one. When I'm told once in a while about the Christians beliefs, and then am allowed to explain mine and why I don't believe the Christian way, and it's left at that, it's all good. But when people come at me constantly trying to change my views, especially with the threat of hell...it is very irritating and only strengthens why I choose other Gods to follow.



However, while I subscribe to the "to each his own" sediment in regards to religion/spirituality, I am not uncaring towards humanity as a whole. I truly believe we are all this together, and we should all work together for the betterment of all. This is a not an "every man for himself" world...but one where we need to work together and be there for one another. And that's actually part of the problem in today's society...so many think it IS "every man for himself" because of our current economy crisis. If we could find a way to stifle the greed of the elite, it just might put us back on track for a world in which we all benefit because we are all helping one another.



"We love Him not because it's in our best interest... We love Him because of Who He is."



That's why I follow the Celtic Gods/Goddesses. What They represent for me is what the Christian God represents for Christians. I don't follow Them because of anything in it for me...I follow them because They are who I am. If only Christians could understand this, I think we'd all get along in this great world a whole lot better.

Krista - posted on 12/06/2011

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That's a good metaphor, Tam.

One other thing to add, is this: let's say I'm heading out without that proverbial coat, despite my friend warning me about the cold. And I'm comfortable and happy with my choice. And now let's say that every single person I encounter on the street points out that it's cold out and that I should wear a coat. For starters, it's annoying. And secondly, it's a bit insulting -- it assumes that I'm stupid and am just not wearing a coat because I haven't heard of coats, or because I just don't know any better.

Tam - posted on 12/06/2011

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Barb, and by extension, Darlene,

I can sort of understand where you are coming from with your mindset. I've got quite a few religious friends who have expressed the same concern for me. Perhaps the problem is not in that concern, but in how it is expressed.

I pride myself on my ability to be courteous and professional about this sort of thing. In reply to concerns about my spiritual well-being, I explain my beliefs and why. Normally, after the initial conversation about it, those religious people in my life respect my wishes after giving me their warnings and beliefs of what will happen to me on my current path. It's something we agree to refrain from discussing except for occasionally, and even then, they lay off on the conversion attempts.

Perhaps a good metaphor for what you were expressing is when the weather turns cold. Imagine two people are walking outside, and one says to the other, "You should put on a coat. You'll be cold, otherwise."

The other doesn't suit up for the weather. They both walk outside into the weather. The one with the coat is confident that they made the right choice and they are warm in the face of the cold. The one without the coat doesn't think the weather's really that bad, and is comfortable the way they are.

The initial attempt is fine, but if the person you are conversing with is not interested, it's damn near impossible to change their mind. If it were so easy to alter another person's convictions, then they either wanted them changed or they weren't too set in their ideas in the first place. And I think that goes for both sides of the equation.

Darlene - posted on 12/06/2011

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Barb, that was awsome...I took myself out of this conversation because I could not express what you just did along with Heather. I usually never talk about religion because I cannot express my tho'ts or feelings let alone beliefs in that matter. Thank you and Heather because you guys have nailed it. I am always afraid that I will offend some one, which I guess I did and then had to apologize for it. I felt so bad that I had to take myself out of the conversation, but you two have opened a new door. Thank you!!!

Darlene - posted on 12/06/2011

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Barb, that was awsome...I took myself out of this conversation because I could not express what you just did along with Heather. I usually never talk about religion because I cannot express my tho'ts or feelings let alone beliefs in that matter. Thank you and Heather because you guys have nailed it. I am always afraid that I will offend some one, which I guess I did and then had to apologize for it. I felt so bad that I had to take myself out of the conversation, but you two have opened a new door. Thank you!!!

Barb - posted on 12/05/2011

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Could I say something in defense of Christians, please? I realize that the "to each his own" attitude works if you're an atheist, for example. That makes sense. But think about the Christian mindset for just a moment. Just try it. If you were convinced that the people in your life who hadn't accepted Jesus as Savior were going to be tormented for eternity... Wouldn't you try to talk to them about that? That's huge! If you believed it with your whole heart wouldn't you want to warn them? Get them to change their thinking so they could avoid that? I mean, really! Think about it. Would you rather have them just say "oh well, I'm saved, who cares about everyone else!"? I say this because when I first got "saved" I went to someone close to me and told them about it only to discover they had this belief and hadn't told me. Incredulous, I say. They believed I was headed for hell and never said a word. I was so upset! Did they not care?!? It took me a while to get over that! Eventually I matured enough as a Christian to realize that God had things under control and I didn't need to WORRY...  about myself or anyone else, but as a new Christian I wasn't there yet. So, my point is, to the non-Christians, the next time you feel "thumped on the head" by a Christian, rather than being offended or upset... think about where they're coming from and perhaps even smile... and say "thanks, glad to know you care!" :) Srsly, it takes a lot of guts (and conviction) to risk offending and alienating people because you believe it's the right thing to do. Just sayin'.

Having said that, I also want to apologize on behalf of Christians because we do offend a lot of people and turn them off of God in our zeal... And I know people don't always feel its coming from a place of love, which is regrettable. I know I used to get upset w people and take it personally if they didn't listen, because I'd think if they respected me they'd believe me. But it doesn't work that way. Eventually God began teaching me about His Sovereignty... and that brought so much peace. Jesus' example is to "say only what the Father says" and "do only what the Father does"... not scramble around in fear to convert people before it's too late. It's never "too late" in God's book! He's God, for pete's sake! The Master and Creator of time itself! (yes, just sharing what I believe!)

I agree with the earlier post about trying to convert people with fear tactics. It's not the example Jesus set. God says (I believe) 365 times in the Scriptures "do not fear." Fear is a sin. You're not trusting Him if you're fearful. And to suggest people accept Him just to "hedge your bets" or be on the safe side? Wow. That's not faith! That's not what it's about. (I understand the logic but is that Biblical?) Although I will say God works in all kinds of ways so I know different things work for different people, but generally speaking! To accept Jesus because of what that will do for us is rather self centered/self serving. (Sorry, I'm on a rant to the Christians now.)  

We love Him not because it's in our best interest... We love Him because of Who He is. 

Kate CP - posted on 12/05/2011

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Heather: Do you actually believe the earth is less than 10,000 years old??

Brandy - posted on 12/05/2011

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@Heather - a few things:

What you keep describing is the illusion of free will. Again, "true free will" would allow us to choose whatever deity we wanted to follow (or none at all) and not be punished for THAT choice. We're not talking about all the other choices we make in life, only the spiritual one, since no matter what other choices you make in life, according to some of you Christians, the spiritual one is the one that saves you or damns you. Funny that it all rests on what is believed rather than what's in a person's heart...glad I don't see things that way, but each to their own.



You don't have to "buy" anything. Believe what you want and let others believe what they want. How hard it is to just let someone see birth in their own way...and not as some miraculous thing? Science can and does explain A LOT.



So, you're an expert on why God created sex?? Really?? Were you personally told by God that sex was ONLY for procreation? I thought we couldn't know everything? So how exactly do you know this? If that were the case, why was it created so pleasurable? You do realize there are homosexual animals right? Scientists have found thousands of species that have homosexual tendencies. They don't "choose" their sexual preference.

And God loves homosexuals...but damns them?! There's another one of the many contradictions I just can't wrap my head around. How about this - the homosexual tendency comes from SOMEWHERE. And if God is the almighty, wouldn't it stand to reason that ultimately, it came from Him? Just something to think about.

One more thing...if God does not want anyone to go to hell, then why put them there? He's the almighty, right? He can do anything, right? Yeah, yet another of the oh-so-many contradictions...that believers just continuously answer with "well, it's in the Bible, so it must be true"...not realizing the Bible was written by MEN and was put together by a more powerful MAN who wanted a tool to control his people. But hey, it's an old book for the popular religion...it must all be true. *shakes head*



I have told so many Christians this - PLEASE read about our nation's history before saying such things about it...our country is NOT based on Biblical anything! It never was and never will be! It would go against the Constitution and what our founding fathers wanted - a nation free from the oppression of the church. Just because Christiainty is popular here, certainly doesn't mean that it's the only choice or only RIGHT choice. Popularity does not necessarily mean the best.



Oh boo hoo, Christians have received some persecution. Again, read some history. Christians persecuted so many others in the past and continue to do so today.



Expressing opinion is NOT the same thing is saying "my way is the ONLY correct way and if you don't follow MY beliefs you're going to a bad place when you die". Very big difference. There are opinions being expressed...and then there are those who are stating they are correct and the rest of us will be damned to hell if we don't change our beliefs to the "popular choice of the US".



As to the longevity and history of beliefs...if you believe that Judaism is the first...where do all the others fit in? I mean, really...how can you ignore historical FACT for Biblical opinions? It is historical FACT the Judaism is NOT the oldest religion...not even for the area in which it started. I understand having beliefs...I have mine...but to ignore FACTS just to make your beliefs more real? That I do not understand.



You seem a good person, Heather...just a tad too sheltered. I'm not asking you to change your beliefs...but would it hurt to study the history of the world? To actually KNOW what happened in history vs. only having Biblical knowledge...wouldn't it be better to have both? At least you would be more knowledgeable in these types of conversations. :)

Alessia - posted on 12/05/2011

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Heather, you are clearly very misinformed and/or uneducated about American History. Most of our Founding Fathers were not Christian, rather they were DEISTS. Deism is very different from Christianity. In fact, many of the Founding Fathers held quite the contempt for Christianity and spoke out often against its tenets and doctrines. Thomas Jefferson was notably one of the most vocal saying, "Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law." (letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814).



Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.



Benjamin Franklin is also another notable non-Christian Founding Father. "I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.". Again, Franklin was a DEIST, as were Washington, Madison, and Adams.



By far, the most conclusive proof that the US is not a Christian nation, is the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified June 7, 1797 and signed by President John Adams. Specifically, Article 11 which states, "the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion".



Also, I don't know where you are getting your information that Christianity was the "only religion" taught in schools until the 60s. And I have never sworn on a bible in a court of law. I have always sworn on my own character. The terms "in god we trust" on currency, and "under god" in the Pledge of Allegiance were added in the 1950s as a "morale boost" to combat the Cold War, with its threat of Communism. Pure idiocy.



You may also need to reread the Declaration of Independence and Constitution as they make no allusion to any Christian tenets at all. The term "creator" can mean any of a number of notions of god, represented by the many faiths that are present in this world.



I suggest you educate yourself on the FACTS about American History instead of fallacies, propagated by the religious right. Saying something is true, simply because you say it enough times, doesn't make it so. There are plenty of resources out there, including personal essays, journals, and letters written by the Founding Fathers themselves that beg to differ with your skewed view of American History.



It is a disservice to the history of this country to change its history, simply to suit the needs of propaganda.



"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the "wall of separation between church and state," therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.

We have solved, by fair experiment, the great and interesting question whether freedom of religion is compatible with order in government and obedience to the laws. And we have experienced the quiet as well as the comfort which results from leaving every one to profess freely and openly those principles of religion which are the inductions of his own reason and the serious convictions of his own inquiries."

-- Thomas Jefferson, to the Virginia Baptists (1808) ME 16:320. This is his second known use of the term "wall of separation," here quoting his own use in the Danbury Baptist letter. This wording of the original was several times upheld by the Supreme Court as an accurate description of the Establishment Clause: Reynolds (98 US at 164, 1879); Everson (330 US at 59, 1947); McCollum (333 US at 232, 1948)

Heather - posted on 12/05/2011

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Kate, you are still missing my point. I believe that in the beginning that there was God and that He was alone and created everything. If you believe this, the first 2 people were Adam and Eve and they worshipped God. If you don't believe that the Judao- Christian God created us, then sure, another religion could have been first. There are millions of people who believe this, and I am one of them. Please don't even get started on God and the U. S. What book do we swear on in court, the Bible. Which religion was taught in schools until it was taken out in the 60s? Christianity. What is in the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, etc? It is filled with Christian principles and doctrine, even mentioning the name of God. Of course a lot has changed since our founding fathers, but this nation was founded on Christian principles, even if they are no longer believed as widespread as they once were.

Kate CP - posted on 12/05/2011

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O.o



wow...just...wow.



Edited to add:



I have to go shopping but I'll be back. Oh yes...I'll be back.

Kate CP - posted on 12/05/2011

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I'm not arguing beliefs, I'm arguing facts.

FACT: The US is not a Biblical nation with Christian foundations.

FACT: Judaism is NOT the oldest religion. Some multi-diety system is the oldest. It's not even the oldest monotheistic religion: Zoroastrianism is.

Heather - posted on 12/05/2011

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Kate, if you read the book of Genesis, where it says God-the God of Judaism and Christianity- created the Heavens and earth and all within (people included), you see the foundation of Judaism- the beginning of EVERYTHING. Other religions( like Hinduism) have creation claims as well, but if you believe in the Old Testament, you believe this is how the world began, thus making Judaism the oldest religion.

Alessia - posted on 12/05/2011

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What part of "I don't believe in any god" did you not understand? I think every atheist on this board has made it explicitly clear where they stand.

And Walt Disney was an anti-Semite

Heather - posted on 12/05/2011

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I could stay on here all day, ignoring my precious little girl, arguing as my lawyer's mind would love, but we are obviously going around in circles. You will never convince me to change my beliefs, and yours, whatever they are- you still haven't really explained much- are I'm sure held firm in your heart, so let's agree to disagree. I'm not cajoling, threatening, or even drinking some imaginary kool-aid, just calmly stating what are my beliefs, as I hope we can agree that we are both entitled todiSlike anyone rather discuss Walt Disney today on his birthday? It may be a little less cutthroat! Lol

Kate CP - posted on 12/05/2011

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OH MY GOD. Judaism is NOT the oldest religion on earth! Where do you get this?!

Alessia - posted on 12/05/2011

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Seriously? Adam and Eve?
Someone needs to research Lucy and Aardi.

#facepalm.

Kate CP - posted on 12/05/2011

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*bangs head on table* The Bible is NOT THE FOUNDATION OF THE UNITED STATES!!! The founding fathers didn't WANT religion in politics because they saw how damaging it is.

It bugs the hell out of me that people think the foundation of the United States is Biblical. IT'S JUST NOT.

Krista - posted on 12/05/2011

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I was just answering your questions, Heather. Remember this?

"We all have free will, and I pray that those who don't believe will come to the belief before it's too late! What do you have to lose? If I'm wrong, you lived a just and moral life with peace and will live happily in some eternity somewhere, if YOU are wrong, you spend eternity in hell. It's a sure bet! Why not believe?"

You posed us all a question. I answered. And in my answer, I pointed out the folly of using Pascal's Wager as a basis for spiritual faith. And you responded reiterating Pascal's Wager. And once again, I pointed out the problem with using that.

And now you're saying that I'm nasty and shouldn't respond to any of your statements.

Perhaps if you had followed your own advice and just stated your beliefs, instead of trying to cajole and threaten people into following those beliefs, then I (and the others) would not have felt the need to reply to your statements?

Heather - posted on 12/05/2011

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Actually, I have picked mine already, so if you choose Hinduism as your religion, go for it! Judaism is the oldest religion if you believe in the old testament- remember Adam and Eve?

Heather - posted on 12/05/2011

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I'm sure you are a lovely person, but may I say that you don't get it. This is a discussion about what we believe and why. I don't claim to have all the answers or know everything. Only God knows the future and what it holds for each of us- as I believe, not everyone, but me personally! That's the point- give your personal opinion about YOUR beliefs and why you feel that way. The point of this is to express yourself, not knock on each other. So please, instead of being nasty, just state your opinion and be done with it.

Krista - posted on 12/05/2011

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What I said earlier is still true, about hedging your bets. Since the Bible is the foundation for our country and is one of the 3 most followed religions in the world, it would be smarter to pick one instead of following nothIng.



So, popular = true.



Good to know.



In recorded history, Hinduism has been the most popular

for the longest period of time. It is also the world's oldest religion.



So Heather, when do you plan on converting to Hinduism? You probably should, you know.



Just in case.

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