Abortion

Rhonda - posted on 02/04/2009 ( 350 moms have responded )

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Has becoming a mother changed your personal or political stance on abortion and abortion rights?

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Kendra - posted on 02/04/2009

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Well Rhonda,



 



I will be the 1st to seriously tackle your question on abortion when you're already a parent. Rhonda while I am prochoice on the situation, i dont believe that any person should use abortion as a form of contraception! at some point you need to act like an adult and use responsible preventative action! Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and decision so i wont judge! While being a parent has been utterly fulfilling and I would never trade my 6year old son for anything. Had I known what I was getting myself into I probably would have made a different decision! so dont let the moral judgemental world say you are wrong for thinking about anything! You are entitled to think what you want! Period Point Blank!!!  Although I also feel like if you already have a child and you know what it means to have to sacrifice for a child. If you dont wanna do that again then why wouldnt you take preventative actions to make sure it doesnt happen again? Nuthing is ever a mistake. Unless the condom broke (and even if it does you could always get another or stop) then there is no reason to have an oops!!! but i do have different views now than i did then but i understand!!!!

Jennifer - posted on 02/04/2009

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Expect a huge response, I am not even going there. I love my son and thats where I will leave it.

Jessica - posted on 02/10/2009

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I thought this Circle of Moms would be something that would offer advice and tips on parenting with Children. Instead it seems to be turning into a site that is offering drama and controversy. It is ok to share how you feel but I dont think it was appropriate to wonder about other peoples thoughts. It just started a big response that has nothing to do with bettering our kids or parenting techniques!!!!!

Barbara - posted on 02/10/2009

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 I was pro life for half of my life, and then changed my mind when I was working with endangered species.  I realized that the reason that they are on the verge of dissapearing is that there are just too many people, and family planning is something that is very important in order to preserve and sustain all life on this planet.



Some animals can re-absorb their litters after conception if the conditions aren't right for having babies at that time.  They have naturally designed built in abortion capabilities.  We don't have that ability in our bodies, but that doesn't mean we aren't occaisionally pregnant when we shouldn't be.  Though it is never an easy decision, sometimes having an abortion the is right one for the people involved.  Whose right is it to say otherwise when you are not in that situation with those people?



It does get trickier when one parent wants the baby and the other doesn't.  I don't think that is a debate that is solveable except in individual situations.



That's my two cents, anyway.

Danielle - posted on 02/09/2009

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I strongly believe that it is a womans right to do what she feels right. I have a one year old son and I love him more then myself, it is an all powering feeling that only a mother can truely understand. However, I would never turn my back on a woman who feels that the right decision, for her, would lead her down that road. Women need to stick together...an abortion is a horrible thing to have to experience especially if you are doing it on your own. To all the woman out there who are going through a trialing time, just remember, reach out for help, not everyone is so judgemental!

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Okay ladies, I have read all of the post in this thread and there are a lot of concerns, questions, opinions and stories. I can not say that any are right or wrong but I feel that it is important for everyone to have their say, that is what this site is all about. My opinion has changed when I saw what my sister went through and then some stories of other family member came out, when you are involved or it becomes more personal views can change. I would say that everyone needs to see the movie "If These Walls Could Talk". A lot of these subjects were touched in this film and I think it is very important to see. Also I wanted to mention that abortions are a better option that taking care of it yourself and I feel that that is one of the main reasons why it is an option. If it became outlawed or illegal things will go back to that way. I feel it is the same with drugs, just because it is illegal doesn't mean it won't happen. At least this way there is a bit more control and it would be taken care of "safely". Just my opinion and some food for thought. Now, since I am the administrator of this group I will now be ending it and preventing any more posts from being made. Please do not take offence to my doing so, but if I do not end it this conversation will, no doubt in my mind, never end.

Peace, Love and Smile, it can get you through anything!

***Missy***

Aly - posted on 02/11/2009

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Also, both of my sons were planned. When I got pregnant with my youngest, we were at our high point finacially. Then my eldest son got sick and almost died. My husband had to quit his job, we lost our house and ended up in a homeless shelter. I had to give birth while living in a homeless shelter. We just moved from the shelter to our own place. And things are starting to get better now. I'm on birth control to prevent any unplanned pregancies. And I don't mean the pill, I'm on the Mirena IUD.

Aly - posted on 02/11/2009

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It sure has! My first born is special needs and has had many medical problems including cancer. I am so happy that he is in my life. No matter how long or short he's here for, if I could go back in time, I wouldn't have changed a thing.

Jaymie - posted on 02/11/2009

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this is got to be one of the hardest topics ever i think ive never ever believed in abortion i myself hav 5 youngens my eldest is only 8, then 7, then 2of them are 4 at mo (not twins) theres 11 mnth between them & my youngest is 15 mnth i died havin my youngest twice i lost more than my body count of blood the docs told me ive t rest my body for a good few years ive got time as im only 28 myself but i caught on more or less straight away while on th pill it broke my heart but i had t hav 1 even though i knew i did it so i wasnt leavin the 5 ive got it still nearly cracked me up i no i wud die 4 any of my babies but yet in my eyes i killed 1 of my own!!! how can the right choice feel so wrong? this bullshit of havin 1 up to 22wks so NEEDS to be changed to me that is murder!!! fair enough sum people hav no choice but if u do hav the choice stay protected lifes a pressious thing dont waist it 4 no good reason xxx

Barbara - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Liana:



To the lady who said humans do not re absorb babies into the womb I'd like to say yes they do. When I was 18 I had a problem pregnancy from day one a scan at 7 weeks showed there was a baby 10 days later at another scan the baby was gone and there had been no bleeding.  The explanation I was given was that my body must have re absorbed it due to some problem with fetus. I cried for weeks afterwards. 






I do get what you are saying about the world being seriously over populated though and I think using education as a means to reduce this problem and reduce the amount of abortions is definately the way to go. 





I had no idea that could happen.  Wow, I'm sorry you had to go through that, it must've been very heartbreaking.  I'm sure I would've cried for weeks as well.



My mother in law works for planned parenthood and it always frustrates me because I believe they prevent more abortions than all the people who picket and pray and occaisionally bomb out front put together.  Abstinence obviously works the best, but there needs to be more education out there for people besides being told "just keep your legs closed."  That just doesn't work.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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. And since some one brought it up, I am anti-death penalty as well. It is not our place to decide if another person lives or dies.



But isn't that what the option of abortion is, deciding whether someone, the unborn child, lives or dies?

Rachel - posted on 02/11/2009

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Re: Post by Liana Stephenson

Ok i can c your point and i believe that the father should have SOME SORT OF SAY, but should a woman have to carry the baby for 9 months and then give birth just because a man wants them to. I dont believe in abortion but i dont believe that a man should be able to dominate a woman in that way either. Ask yourself how you would feel if you HAD to be pregnant not because you WANTED TO but because someone else wanted you to be, how do you think that would affect your mental state?

Margo - posted on 02/11/2009

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Should be illegal, unless for serious medical complications to either mother or child (ie. continuing the pregnancy could possibly ressult in the death of one of the above mentioned, also possibly for victims of rape, other wise i really think abortion is just another term for murder, there are so many options for contraception out there why is this even offered)

but i dont begrudge people who feel strongly that they need to use this option either, this is just MY veiwpoint and everyone is entitled to there own.

Liana - posted on 02/11/2009

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To the lady who said humans do not re absorb babies into the womb I'd like to say yes they do. When I was 18 I had a problem pregnancy from day one a scan at 7 weeks showed there was a baby 10 days later at another scan the baby was gone and there had been no bleeding.  The explanation I was given was that my body must have re absorbed it due to some problem with fetus. I cried for weeks afterwards. 



I do get what you are saying about the world being seriously over populated though and I think using education as a means to reduce this problem and reduce the amount of abortions is definately the way to go. 

Stephanie - posted on 02/11/2009

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It has not changed my opinion at all. I think abortion should only be available in certain situations. I love my son and I could not imagine flushing him down the toilet, just because I was too stupid to use birth control.

Stephanie - posted on 02/11/2009

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It has not changed my opinion at all. I think abortion should only be available in certain situations. I love my son and I could not imagine flushing him down the toilet, just because I was too stupid to use birth control.

Liana - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Rhonda:



Quoting Danialle:




Quoting Liana:





Quoting Danialle:






Quoting Liana:







I have a question for all pro choice mothers, out of curiosity, Everyone talks about a womans right to control their body and the babies right to live what about the Father of the child? Does he have a say? If the father wants the baby and the mother doesn't does she still have the right to have an abortion? Or should she go through with the pregnancy and hand the child over to the parent that actually wants it?














I personnaly think if 1 parent is oppossed to the abortion then it shouldn't happen obviously the child is wanted 1 parent and to abort would be cruel.  Thats my view but I'm just curious what others think.


















I have the opposite question for you. What if the mother wants it but the father doesn't? Should she be able to keep it and make him pay support? I don't really know how I feel about either question. It is a woman's body so it should be her choice, but as a father he should have a choice too. That question is like trying to figure out how everything came to be. You go round and round and round.
















In answer to your question I believe in equal rights for both parents if the child is wanted by 1 and not the other than there should be no abortion but the parent who didn't want the child in the first place should not be forced to be a part of the childs life (other than medical records) financially or socially.  However if they do want to see the child they should help to support it. That's regardless of whether it's the mother or the father.












What about the parent who skips the first 5 or 10 years? Should they have to pay back support to see their child? Or what if they are over 18 and the parent finally wants to see their child but never helped the other parent to raise that child? I guess I think if they are both involved in making a baby, they should have to support it regardless or they shouldn't be having sex and taking the chance of having a child.










I think if you decide not to be a parent to THAT child (because you can't be reimpregnanted with the same child and you cant' reimpregnant someone with the same child you abandoned or aborted) then you simply do not ever get the chance to be a parent to that child. You walk away and don't turn back, abortino is permanent that child doesn't come back in the womb once its aborted its gone forever no matter how many other children you have, thus a man *aborting* his child who still exists shouldn't get the chance to ever se eor know that child.






I'd like to thank Rhonda because that is exactly what I think if a parent opts out of the childs life it is forever.

Rachel - posted on 02/11/2009

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Yes for some people their opinions change about abortions once they have kids but mine has never cahnged. I have never agreed with abortion's unless the woman has been raped or having the baby would kill her. Abortion is murder and i think if ya old enough to have sex and you fall pregnant through stupidity then your old enough to deal with it

Lauren - posted on 02/11/2009

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I know a woman in her 30's who had an abortion at about 12 weeks gestation because the baby was so severely deformed that the mum would most likely deliver a stillborn baby, but if she did deliver a live baby there was a 100% mortality rate because the lungs would be deformed. The poor woman planned the pregnancy and was devestated. but i think it would have been worse to deliver a stillborn or have a baby for an hour and then it die.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Julie:



I have always been pro-choice.  Personally, abortion is not something I think I would ever be able to do, even in the event of a rape.  But that is me, I am not one to tell others what they can and cannot do.  People tend to think that women who have abortions are heartless and don't care, well that is not true.  Some women are really suffering over the choice they had to make.  I have a dear friend that had an abortion and I know it was a very tough decision for her to make.  I wonder too about whether that decision was harder for her since she already had a baby and had seen what she looked like and all that...Anyways, I think women should not be forced into carrying a child they do not want.  And it's not up to us to judge them at all, that's God's job.






The only people who truly *have* to choose abortion are those whose life or health is at risk, I'd include in that those who are mentally unstable or those who conceved the chiold through rape because of the emotional repercussions of your rapist's semen growing into a life inside of you. BUT if you're broke there are programs for those poor mothers who choose adoptions, if that is available to you you do not *have* to have an abortion, you want to have one. WHat you need and what you want are two very different things. But I'm not saying the want should be ignored or isn't valid just that  we really shouldn't throw around the word a need with abortion. Because there are plenty of women who literally needed an abortion and truly did not want one and those who simply wanted one even though her life, health and sanity did not depend on it.

Carrie - posted on 02/11/2009

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I think if you are big enough to have have sex you should be big enough to live up to the consequences, if you dont want a baby use protection, theres lots of it out there so there is no excuse. I had a miscarriage 3 months ago and it was the worst pain i felt emotionally and physically, maybe because i already have a son, i dont know. But i wouldn't wish it on anybody and i would give anything to still be pregnant. I just think people should think twice before they 'jump in the sack' about precautions. It takes 10 minutes to go to the doctors. I also know mistakes happen, and abortion can be a hasty decision, there are lots of other options out there.

Julie - posted on 02/11/2009

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I have always been pro-choice.  Personally, abortion is not something I think I would ever be able to do, even in the event of a rape.  But that is me, I am not one to tell others what they can and cannot do.  People tend to think that women who have abortions are heartless and don't care, well that is not true.  Some women are really suffering over the choice they had to make.  I have a dear friend that had an abortion and I know it was a very tough decision for her to make.  I wonder too about whether that decision was harder for her since she already had a baby and had seen what she looked like and all that...Anyways, I think women should not be forced into carrying a child they do not want.  And it's not up to us to judge them at all, that's God's job.

Danialle - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Jana:

First of all it needs to be verified that she is pregnant. She's 8 and she has already hit puberty??? If you are the only one who knows about the rape, you need to do whats best for her and let someone know. She needs to be tested for std's and have a preg. test. There are far more dangerous things that could happen if she doesnt get help. If her body has hit puberty and she truly is pregnant she should be physically able to carry a child and have a c-section. Its odd that an 8 year old would already be menstruating......but regardless she definitely needs to see a doctor before its too late


My mom started mensturating at 9. I have heard of an 8 year old having triplets. I am sorry but that has to tear her little body to pieces

Simone - posted on 02/11/2009

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i have always been anti abortion. i even believe you should keep your child or give them up to someone else who can take care of them even in difficult situations: rape, child is expected to be born with a serious defect or illness. it has been proven that even in the beginnings of the first trimester that child can indeed feel pain. i encourage anyone who doesnt understand what an abortion is or what it looks like to look it up, especially if your thinking about having one done yourself. yes being pregnant at a young age is difficult, being pregnant in a family that is religeous stinks, but try living with yourself after murdering your own child on top of not being able to talk about it to anyone. thats the worst! God bless everyone and all of the unborn children due to abortions.

Jodie - posted on 02/11/2009

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I don't believe in abortion unless you know the child is going to be severely disabled or if the person did all they could to prevent getting pregnant. I think abortions are given out too freely as an alternative to contraception which is disgusting. Take the precautions or deal with the consequences.

Jen - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Bobbi-joe:

dont even go there if you dont want to get prago then close your lags no kid asked to be conseved


I am not for abortion, but your comment is uncalled for.  Do you only sleep with your husband when you want to conceive a child?

Ashley - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Bobbi-joe:

dont even go there if you dont want to get prago then close your lags no kid asked to be conseved



that's so not fair to say!...so what you are trying to say that someone who was raped deserved to be raped because she couldnt keep her legs closed??.....wow some ppl can be so rude!!.....nd your right no child asked to be conceived but look at all those abused children out there who were brought into a family that didnt want them.....they didnt asked to be conceived but they also didnt ask to be abused!!!!......you should get to know ppls situations before you make comments like that!..

Bobbi-joe - posted on 02/11/2009

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dont even go there if you dont want to get prago then close your lags no kid asked to be conseved

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Meghan:

hello there. this is a very diverse question, and im sure you would hve had ALOT of input.my opinion on the whole matter is i WOULD have an abortion if i was haveing a hard time financially or got raped. i belive that you need money in a societ like ours to raise a child effectivly,i have a 2 year old son (planned) and i love him dearly, but if we could not afford to cloth him e.t.c we wouldnt of had him.in some of the statments it has been said you should use contraception.....i know a few mothers that were on the pill, never skip one and always had it at the ssame time, and yet still got pregnant so it does happen, they kept there children, but some people dont want the child so they get an abortion, that is there choice. that is my opinion anyway thanks :o)



I think most people use abortion when its inconvenient to keep the child as opposed to giving the baby up for adoption. A lot of kids in teh system are there because they were taken away from their homes.

Elisabeth - posted on 02/11/2009

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My opinion has never changed. I believe that as soon as the egg and fertilized it is a baby. That baby had no choice in being concieved, and no concept of how it was conceived. While I do not judge anyone, and understand that for many many women becoming pregnant can be a very difficult thing, whether it was unplanned, teen, or the result of rape. I still believe that the baby deserves a chance at life. If you don't want to be a parent, then give your child to someone who does. And since some one brought it up, I am anti-death penalty as well. It is not our place to decide if another person lives or dies.

Meghan - posted on 02/11/2009

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hello there. this is a very diverse question, and im sure you would hve had ALOT of input.my opinion on the whole matter is i WOULD have an abortion if i was haveing a hard time financially or got raped. i belive that you need money in a societ like ours to raise a child effectivly,i have a 2 year old son (planned) and i love him dearly, but if we could not afford to cloth him e.t.c we wouldnt of had him.in some of the statments it has been said you should use contraception.....i know a few mothers that were on the pill, never skip one and always had it at the ssame time, and yet still got pregnant so it does happen, they kept there children, but some people dont want the child so they get an abortion, that is there choice. that is my opinion anyway thanks :o)

Nicola - posted on 02/11/2009

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i believe in abortion but only in circumstances of rape or if the baby as serious abnormalities were u would be told by specialist that u should have one. I think abortion is the easy way out for some people its wrong if u are stupid enough to not take contraception then u should live up to ur responsibilities.i no a girl whos had 3 abortion's by 3 different men its  wrong.and having them at 23 weeks is murder.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Danialle:



But what if she is too scared or ashamed to tell her parents?






Then she'd have to undergo a procedure that, for an 8 year old who may in fact grow up to be pro-life, be one of the single most traumatic events in her life. At 8 we all know she certainly is not capable of consenting to sex and she certainly is not capable of understanding the complete ramifications of abortion, what it does to her body, that she's carrying her rapist child . It's waaay too much for a child. If that situation were to occur, whether or not she could get an abortion is the smallest problem in comparison to the fqact that her rapist made her a mommy. FYI it is extremely rare that an 8 year old is capable of becoming pregnant and if she were raped , again, she'd suffer an infection because she'd surely have fissures.

Jana - posted on 02/11/2009

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First of all it needs to be verified that she is pregnant. She's 8 and she has already hit puberty??? If you are the only one who knows about the rape, you need to do whats best for her and let someone know. She needs to be tested for std's and have a preg. test. There are far more dangerous things that could happen if she doesnt get help. If her body has hit puberty and she truly is pregnant she should be physically able to carry a child and have a c-section. Its odd that an 8 year old would already be menstruating......but regardless she definitely needs to see a doctor before its too late

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Kamilah:



Thanks Rhonda. And you're right. I wouldnt change a thing. My son provided the motivation I needed to be the sucessful woman i am today. . . But, i keep hearing a lot about "love" and that worries me. . .






I know that love is a great thing, and there is nothing compared to the love of a mother and child, but frankly, love isnt always enough. Everyone whose ever had a relationship in which they thought they loved someone knows that love doesn't buy diapers, food, shelter, or clothes. . . Some bad decisions are made over love.  And while i know there are many adoptive parents who would love to have the unwanted baby of a 14 year old, that 14 year old has to go through the trauma of pregnancy. Whether you enjoy the experience or not, pregnancy IS traumatic on the body, and if you're not emotionally strong (which teenage girls are not) or have support, on the mind as well. . . The stigma alone can be heart breaking. . . I was asked to leave my church when I was pregnant (unmarried), and I was over 18. . . imagine how that would feel if i were 13. . .






Life isn't always a crystal stair, and having to make the decision to do things in the way that is right for you (not for him, or your mother, or your church, or anyone else who isn't going to be there to hold a screaming baby at 2 in the morning) isn't easy. And for all of you who have had to make that choice, my heart goes out to you . . .






I know the trauma of pregnancy as a woman with a chronic illness who could not take her medicine during pregnancy, I risked my very life to give birth only to have a c-section at the end which further made things worse. Trust me, I understand trauma in pregnancy. I do mention love because there is love between mother and child and as successful as I am, being a mother made me appreaciate my mother even more for not aborting me. I was concevied post Roe V Wade and anyone conceived after that was up for abortion if their mother decided to, we were all one decision, one fear, one regret away from non existence. I like to think that love for me had something to do with me being here so I throw that in when referencing mother-child relationships. I know I was certainly inconvenient to my parents at the time.

Jana - posted on 02/11/2009

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No I dont think it changed my stance. I've always been prolife and believe that life begins at conception and that God has a plan for each and every life that He creates. The thought of abortion, especially later in term, is hard for me to think about. Its really sad and I wish it didnt happen but it does. I would be willing to help someone who doesnt think they can have their baby for whatever reason....its not worth ending a life.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Danialle:



Ok I have to ask those people who are adamantly pro life a question. This is a serious question and not meant to be sarcastic. What if a 8 year old girl is raped? She is not ready in any way to carry or care for a baby. This could potentially kill her and she had no choice in the situation. I am talking about a petite stick thin little girl like my little cousin. Should she have to go through that and probably destroy her body and her life. She will probably never be able to have children she wants and will probably never want a child after being so emotionally scared. I don't understand how anyone could say this CHILD should have to carry and birth a baby. What should she do if she doesn't have the option of abortion?






If her parents knew of this and did the right thing she was taken to the ER and given emergency contraception and anitbiotic (MOST IMOPRTANTLY) to help guard her against infection, being 8 she's most likely suffering from an open wound in that area meaning she's more likely to get HIV or any other infection or disease from the rape.

Hayley - posted on 02/11/2009

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i had a termination after i had my son he was 3 months old n found out i was 8 weeks gone n my partner had left me wen my son was 2 months old! n i dnt regret it at all i had it dun b4 i was 12 weeks gne other wise i wouldnt have got rid of it due 2 i dnt agree after first trimester! i do however feel dwn as would love another bby now but no i dnt regret having it dun at that point as life was hard!

Barbara - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Rhonda:



Quoting Barbara:




Quoting Rhonda:





Quoting Barbara:






 I was pro life for half of my life, and then changed my mind when I was working with endangered species.  I realized that the reason that they are on the verge of dissapearing is that there are just too many people, and family planning is something that is very important in order to preserve and sustain all life on this planet.












Some animals can re-absorb their litters after conception if the conditions aren't right for having babies at that time.  They have naturally designed built in abortion capabilities.  We don't have that ability in our bodies, but that doesn't mean we aren't occaisionally pregnant when we shouldn't be.  Though it is never an easy decision, sometimes having an abortion the is right one for the people involved.  Whose right is it to say otherwise when you are not in that situation with those people?












It does get trickier when one parent wants the baby and the other doesn't.  I don't think that is a debate that is solveable except in individual situations.












That's my two cents, anyway.















 Kill the human babies to save the animal babies... I don't follow. Humans built in mechanism for natural selection is spontaneous abortion IE MISCARRIAGE. I dare you to tell a woman who's miscarried it was for the good of the endangered species.












I have never had to experience the tragedy of a miscarriage, and I'm sure if I did I would be devastated.  Miscarriage, howvere is not what I am referring to.








The animals I'm talking about aren't miscarrying, they are RE-ABSORBING their babies, like I said.  A common animal with this ability is the rabbit.  If she is stressed or overcrowded she will absorb perfectly healthy fetuses back into her body.  They don't go through a miscarriage, the babies just dissapear back into the mother.  Rabbits are lucky to have this ability.  Other animals eat their young when stressed or overwhelmed because they can't abort beforehand.  Some women throw their babies in dumpsters in this very country, or smother them.  Some leave them out to die.  I think it's far crueller for babies to be killed in these kinds of ways than to be aborted early on in a pregnancy.








I am equating having an abortion to those animals re absorbing their litters when the time isn't right for birthing and rearing little ones.  I'm sure that the animals that have to go through that make perfectly good mothers when the time is right, but sometimes nature takes over and makes sacrifices for the good of all.  It's not pretty, but sometimes those hard decisions have to be made in our lives as well.  Women, like rabbits, deserve the right to choose.








 









From what you'vce posted rabbits are intentionally killng their child, the re absorption of a fetus which in terms aborts the pregnancy of the rabbitt occurs because of her stress levels. Did you know that in humans a woman's stress level can affect her fertility? If she's malnourished that can affect her fertility? In many cases a woman is pregnant and NEVER KNOWS IT because we have monthly cycles and a spontaneous abortion will just exit like a period. It takes longer and is usually heavier but about 50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage and most of those  exit the period under the auspice of a normal cycle. I understand the overopoulation bit but long before abortion was legalized and when pre-marital sex was still thought to be the biggest sin of all women were having sex and getting pregnant and there was no overpopulation.  Choose what you may but the reasoning you gave just seems like something realyl far fetched.





I did know that stress can affect your fertility, and perhaps it does directly apply to the rabbit reabsorption phenomenon,( although they can reabsorb relatively late in their pregnancy without any bleeding.)



As to the overpopulation issue, I expressed my views on the subject in my last comment if you care to take a look.;)

Kamilah - posted on 02/11/2009

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Thanks Rhonda. And you're right. I wouldnt change a thing. My son provided the motivation I needed to be the sucessful woman i am today. . . But, i keep hearing a lot about "love" and that worries me. . .



I know that love is a great thing, and there is nothing compared to the love of a mother and child, but frankly, love isnt always enough. Everyone whose ever had a relationship in which they thought they loved someone knows that love doesn't buy diapers, food, shelter, or clothes. . . Some bad decisions are made over love.  And while i know there are many adoptive parents who would love to have the unwanted baby of a 14 year old, that 14 year old has to go through the trauma of pregnancy. Whether you enjoy the experience or not, pregnancy IS traumatic on the body, and if you're not emotionally strong (which teenage girls are not) or have support, on the mind as well. . . The stigma alone can be heart breaking. . . I was asked to leave my church when I was pregnant (unmarried), and I was over 18. . . imagine how that would feel if i were 13. . .



Life isn't always a crystal stair, and having to make the decision to do things in the way that is right for you (not for him, or your mother, or your church, or anyone else who isn't going to be there to hold a screaming baby at 2 in the morning) isn't easy. And for all of you who have had to make that choice, my heart goes out to you . . .

Danialle - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Barbara:



Quoting sarah:




Quoting Barbara:





 I was pro life for half of my life, and then changed my mind when I was working with endangered species.  I realized that the reason that they are on the verge of dissapearing is that there are just too many people, and family planning is something that is very important in order to preserve and sustain all life on this planet.










Some animals can re-absorb their litters after conception if the conditions aren't right for having babies at that time.  They have naturally designed built in abortion capabilities.  We don't have that ability in our bodies, but that doesn't mean we aren't occaisionally pregnant when we shouldn't be.  Though it is never an easy decision, sometimes having an abortion the is right one for the people involved.  Whose right is it to say otherwise when you are not in that situation with those people?










It does get trickier when one parent wants the baby and the other doesn't.  I don't think that is a debate that is solveable except in individual situations.










That's my two cents, anyway.












 








Are you seriously comparing human beings to animals? don't you think that humans are intellectually far superior to animals. I don't think that we should have abortions because animals are becoming endangered. That puts animals above the sanctity of life.









I didn't say family planning is important to preserve animal life on this planet, I said all life.  Plant, animal, and human.  Our human population has exploded in the last century, rising from about 2 billion to 6 billion in about 70 years.  This kind of human growth is impossible for this planet to sustain.  The fact that animals are dying out is an indicator that things aren't going the way that we need them to for us to be able to live here for much longer, relatively speaking.  We are all connected in a vast web of life, and if we keep clipping the strands, eventually the whole thing will collapse.  We need eachother in order to survive.






Why spend your energy worrying about the women getting abortions instead of trying to solve these problems before they start?  I might be generalizing here, but it seems like a lot of people who are pro life tend to be anti sex education, which may be your most valuable tool in preventing abortions from happening in the first place.  People pray outside Planned Parenthood, but they aren't preventing as many abortions as P.P. does in the course of it's work.  Abortions are terrible.  They are hard to justify.  We should be trying to stop them from having to become an option in the first place.  I think that is a point that we could all agree on, right?





You are right. I do support abstinence, however I do believe we need to talk about safe sex as well. Some kids just don't listen to the abstinence stuff because they are young and going to do what they wanna do. They may zone out when talking about abstinence, but listen to topics about safe sex, because they still get to do what they wanna do, but they can be safer doing it. We tell our kids don't smoke, don't drink, don't steal, etc. and they still do it because they are kids and think they know it all. The same thing applies to sex. We should be expressing all aspects of sex. My mother was very open and honest with me my whole life. When I turned 16 she put me on birth control because I was going to be able to date and she wanted me protected incase of date rape. I did not lose my virginity until I was 18 and married that same guy a year later and had our son a year after that. I knew all aspects of sex, stds, pregnancy, the emotional aspect and making smart choices, I believe because of this I stayed a virgin so "long". I was an adult and made an informed adult decision. Most people I knew were having sex at 13 or 14. I feel I was more informed then them and therefore made better decisions. Again abstinence is great to teach, but we can't depend on that alone

Melanie - posted on 02/11/2009

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the thing about the 8 year old girl is kind of the point i was trying to make. there's always going to be situations where abortion IS the right thing to do.

Melanie - posted on 02/11/2009

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i'm definately pro-choice now after having a child, but was not always that way. after going through the whole expeirience of being pregnant, giving birth, and now raising my daughter.. i would say it's definately not for everybody.



i DO believe in being safe so no one would ever have to be in the situation. [people who are being reckless and just getting abortions left and right ARE wrong.] however, lets say, a woman is ON birth control AND has sex with a condom also. but then somehow ends up pregnant? she took every precaution she could. someone in an earlier post said well it would be god's gift or something. lets say this woman is not religious...? how is she suppose to think it's a gift from something she doesn't even believe in?

Danialle - posted on 02/11/2009

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Ok I have to ask those people who are adamantly pro life a question. This is a serious question and not meant to be sarcastic. What if a 8 year old girl is raped? She is not ready in any way to carry or care for a baby. This could potentially kill her and she had no choice in the situation. I am talking about a petite stick thin little girl like my little cousin. Should she have to go through that and probably destroy her body and her life. She will probably never be able to have children she wants and will probably never want a child after being so emotionally scared. I don't understand how anyone could say this CHILD should have to carry and birth a baby. What should she do if she doesn't have the option of abortion?

Barbara - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting sarah:



Quoting Barbara:




 I was pro life for half of my life, and then changed my mind when I was working with endangered species.  I realized that the reason that they are on the verge of dissapearing is that there are just too many people, and family planning is something that is very important in order to preserve and sustain all life on this planet.








Some animals can re-absorb their litters after conception if the conditions aren't right for having babies at that time.  They have naturally designed built in abortion capabilities.  We don't have that ability in our bodies, but that doesn't mean we aren't occaisionally pregnant when we shouldn't be.  Though it is never an easy decision, sometimes having an abortion the is right one for the people involved.  Whose right is it to say otherwise when you are not in that situation with those people?








It does get trickier when one parent wants the baby and the other doesn't.  I don't think that is a debate that is solveable except in individual situations.








That's my two cents, anyway.









 






Are you seriously comparing human beings to animals? don't you think that humans are intellectually far superior to animals. I don't think that we should have abortions because animals are becoming endangered. That puts animals above the sanctity of life.





I didn't say family planning is important to preserve animal life on this planet, I said all life.  Plant, animal, and human.  Our human population has exploded in the last century, rising from about 2 billion to 6 billion in about 70 years.  This kind of human growth is impossible for this planet to sustain.  The fact that animals are dying out is an indicator that things aren't going the way that we need them to for us to be able to live here for much longer, relatively speaking.  We are all connected in a vast web of life, and if we keep clipping the strands, eventually the whole thing will collapse.  We need eachother in order to survive.



Why spend your energy worrying about the women getting abortions instead of trying to solve these problems before they start?  I might be generalizing here, but it seems like a lot of people who are pro life tend to be anti sex education, which may be your most valuable tool in preventing abortions from happening in the first place.  People pray outside Planned Parenthood, but they aren't preventing as many abortions as P.P. does in the course of it's work.  Abortions are terrible.  They are hard to justify.  We should be trying to stop them from having to become an option in the first place.  I think that is a point that we could all agree on, right?

Danialle - posted on 02/11/2009

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Ok I have to ask those people who are adamantly pro life a question. This is a serious question and not meant to be sarcastic. What if a 8 year old girl is raped? She is not ready in any way to carry or care for a baby. This could potentially kill her and she had no choice in the situation. I am talking about a petite stick thin little girl like my little cousin. Should she have to go through that and probably destroy her body and her life. She will probably never be able to have children she wants and will probably never want a child after being so emotionally scared. I don't understand how anyone could say this CHILD should have to carry and birth a baby. What should she do if she doesn't have the option of abortion?

[deleted account]

before i became a mom i was not one for abortions and now even more i stand by my decision!!! all babies are blessings so i i strongly disagree on ppl having abortions unless the pregnancy was a result of being raped!!! if you're having unprotected sex and end up pregnant it's your responsibilty to see the pregnancy through because the baby didn't asked to be here so it's unfair to end a life that had no chance of starting.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting sarah:



Quoting Rhonda:




Quoting sarah:

People shouldn't have sex, on or off of birth control, unless they are will and ready to have a baby. Because birth control doesn't always work. People should be ready for the possibility of getting pregnant. If they're not able or willing to take care of a little innocent baby then they SHOULD just NOT have sex. It is totally selfish to give into carnal desires if you aren't ready to be responsible for those actions.








Sarah,








Under that logic, people should not be willing to have sex without being willing and ready to have HIV/AIDS or other STDs or STIs because those are much more likely to occur than a baby during sex.









 






 






EXACTLY. People shouldn't just be out there having sex. Sex is intended for two married people who are in a committed relationship with one another. Our society has this free love mentality. But look at what we have as a result: aids, stds and the like, and abortion. This is not what sex is intended for.






Yes but what about those women who ar ewith cheating husbands and they have unprotected sex and she gets infected? I mean there are waaay too many variables for that argument to be a sound one though I do respect the opinion but it has bearing. You SHOULD fully understand what you are getting yourself into and that you can't cherrypick what you want from sex, there are consequences.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Danialle:



Quoting Liana:




Quoting Danialle:





Quoting Liana:






I have a question for all pro choice mothers, out of curiosity, Everyone talks about a womans right to control their body and the babies right to live what about the Father of the child? Does he have a say? If the father wants the baby and the mother doesn't does she still have the right to have an abortion? Or should she go through with the pregnancy and hand the child over to the parent that actually wants it?












I personnaly think if 1 parent is oppossed to the abortion then it shouldn't happen obviously the child is wanted 1 parent and to abort would be cruel.  Thats my view but I'm just curious what others think.















I have the opposite question for you. What if the mother wants it but the father doesn't? Should she be able to keep it and make him pay support? I don't really know how I feel about either question. It is a woman's body so it should be her choice, but as a father he should have a choice too. That question is like trying to figure out how everything came to be. You go round and round and round.













In answer to your question I believe in equal rights for both parents if the child is wanted by 1 and not the other than there should be no abortion but the parent who didn't want the child in the first place should not be forced to be a part of the childs life (other than medical records) financially or socially.  However if they do want to see the child they should help to support it. That's regardless of whether it's the mother or the father.









What about the parent who skips the first 5 or 10 years? Should they have to pay back support to see their child? Or what if they are over 18 and the parent finally wants to see their child but never helped the other parent to raise that child? I guess I think if they are both involved in making a baby, they should have to support it regardless or they shouldn't be having sex and taking the chance of having a child.






I think if you decide not to be a parent to THAT child (because you can't be reimpregnanted with the same child and you cant' reimpregnant someone with the same child you abandoned or aborted) then you simply do not ever get the chance to be a parent to that child. You walk away and don't turn back, abortino is permanent that child doesn't come back in the womb once its aborted its gone forever no matter how many other children you have, thus a man *aborting* his child who still exists shouldn't get the chance to ever se eor know that child.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Kamilah:



I am pro choice as the day is long. Its not my place to judge anyone for choosing not to have a child for WHATEVER their reason may be (too young, irresponsible, rape, doesn't want kids, WHATEVER). It's not an easy decision to make, and most importantly, its a private decision, and It's really none of my (or any one else's) business.






With that having been said, to answer the original question, my perspective hasn't changed since before my first child, which I had as an unmarried college freshman. I considered abortion then, and have considered it since. IKeeping my son wasn't an easy decision to make knowing I would have to go it alone, but I made it. . . And knowing then what i know now, i couldnt say I would have made that decision all over again. I don't have to defend the love of my child here, and won't, but being a mother isn't easy, and there a lot of women who can't handle that responsibility, and have to find that out the hard way.






Thank you for a very honest very open post. I never expected anyone to get as detailed as you have here but I really do appreciate that you did it without being defensive. We are all mothers here and we all know the difficulties associated with raising a child, be it alone or with help from the father, husband, boyfrind fiance partner family friends whoever. Each situation is different and each person reacts and makes different decisions. I will say this though, I think if you could go back even knowing what you know now you'd want your child to exist and you'd have him but you'd be better prepared because you'd know what to expect.

Danialle - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Liana:



Quoting Danialle:




Quoting Liana:





I have a question for all pro choice mothers, out of curiosity, Everyone talks about a womans right to control their body and the babies right to live what about the Father of the child? Does he have a say? If the father wants the baby and the mother doesn't does she still have the right to have an abortion? Or should she go through with the pregnancy and hand the child over to the parent that actually wants it?










I personnaly think if 1 parent is oppossed to the abortion then it shouldn't happen obviously the child is wanted 1 parent and to abort would be cruel.  Thats my view but I'm just curious what others think.












I have the opposite question for you. What if the mother wants it but the father doesn't? Should she be able to keep it and make him pay support? I don't really know how I feel about either question. It is a woman's body so it should be her choice, but as a father he should have a choice too. That question is like trying to figure out how everything came to be. You go round and round and round.










In answer to your question I believe in equal rights for both parents if the child is wanted by 1 and not the other than there should be no abortion but the parent who didn't want the child in the first place should not be forced to be a part of the childs life (other than medical records) financially or socially.  However if they do want to see the child they should help to support it. That's regardless of whether it's the mother or the father.





What about the parent who skips the first 5 or 10 years? Should they have to pay back support to see their child? Or what if they are over 18 and the parent finally wants to see their child but never helped the other parent to raise that child? I guess I think if they are both involved in making a baby, they should have to support it regardless or they shouldn't be having sex and taking the chance of having a child.

Rhonda - posted on 02/11/2009

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Quoting Barbara:



Quoting Rhonda:




Quoting Barbara:





 I was pro life for half of my life, and then changed my mind when I was working with endangered species.  I realized that the reason that they are on the verge of dissapearing is that there are just too many people, and family planning is something that is very important in order to preserve and sustain all life on this planet.










Some animals can re-absorb their litters after conception if the conditions aren't right for having babies at that time.  They have naturally designed built in abortion capabilities.  We don't have that ability in our bodies, but that doesn't mean we aren't occaisionally pregnant when we shouldn't be.  Though it is never an easy decision, sometimes having an abortion the is right one for the people involved.  Whose right is it to say otherwise when you are not in that situation with those people?










It does get trickier when one parent wants the baby and the other doesn't.  I don't think that is a debate that is solveable except in individual situations.










That's my two cents, anyway.












 Kill the human babies to save the animal babies... I don't follow. Humans built in mechanism for natural selection is spontaneous abortion IE MISCARRIAGE. I dare you to tell a woman who's miscarried it was for the good of the endangered species.









I have never had to experience the tragedy of a miscarriage, and I'm sure if I did I would be devastated.  Miscarriage, howvere is not what I am referring to.






The animals I'm talking about aren't miscarrying, they are RE-ABSORBING their babies, like I said.  A common animal with this ability is the rabbit.  If she is stressed or overcrowded she will absorb perfectly healthy fetuses back into her body.  They don't go through a miscarriage, the babies just dissapear back into the mother.  Rabbits are lucky to have this ability.  Other animals eat their young when stressed or overwhelmed because they can't abort beforehand.  Some women throw their babies in dumpsters in this very country, or smother them.  Some leave them out to die.  I think it's far crueller for babies to be killed in these kinds of ways than to be aborted early on in a pregnancy.






I am equating having an abortion to those animals re absorbing their litters when the time isn't right for birthing and rearing little ones.  I'm sure that the animals that have to go through that make perfectly good mothers when the time is right, but sometimes nature takes over and makes sacrifices for the good of all.  It's not pretty, but sometimes those hard decisions have to be made in our lives as well.  Women, like rabbits, deserve the right to choose.






 





From what you'vce posted rabbits are intentionally killng their child, the re absorption of a fetus which in terms aborts the pregnancy of the rabbitt occurs because of her stress levels. Did you know that in humans a woman's stress level can affect her fertility? If she's malnourished that can affect her fertility? In many cases a woman is pregnant and NEVER KNOWS IT because we have monthly cycles and a spontaneous abortion will just exit like a period. It takes longer and is usually heavier but about 50% of all pregnancies end in miscarriage and most of those  exit the period under the auspice of a normal cycle. I understand the overopoulation bit but long before abortion was legalized and when pre-marital sex was still thought to be the biggest sin of all women were having sex and getting pregnant and there was no overpopulation.  Choose what you may but the reasoning you gave just seems like something realyl far fetched.

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