Immunizations

Wendy - posted on 03/29/2009 ( 105 moms have responded )

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Anyone like myself and not giving their child the MMR vaccination? My pediatrician just told me at our 2 year old visit that we needed to be thinking about giving it to our son cause she had seen a child with mumps, actually 2 cases. What age is it safe to give your child the MMR vaccination? she also went on to tell me that a male has a chance of becoming sterile if they get the mumps. I have been worried since the visit and kinda just undecided on what to do. Any suggestions?

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Lauralee - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Sara:

Why is a lot of this anti-vaccination stuff always weaved together with conspiracy theories? It disturbs me how a few people on here seem very ill informed about vaccinations. There are a lot of disreputable sites on the internet that prey on peoples fears about vaccinations. Even Dr. Sears isn't opposed to vaccinations, he just thinks that people need all the information about them and then can make a choice one way or another. I agree with him.

And honestly, losing a baby to SIDS is one of the most painful things that someone can experience. I have good friends that lost their 5 week old daughter to SIDS, and it wasn't because of vaccinations. There are those scare tactics at work again...

http://www.sids.org/news1.html


http://www.thinktwice.com/stories.htm&nb...



http://www.thinktwice.com/stories2.htm







Dear Thinktwice,
I read your vaccine book too late.... My dearest son, Spencer Joseph, died 10 hours after receiving his 4th dose of DPT, HIB, and polio vaccines. He was 20 months old. I knew Spencer was dead when I heard my husband wailing like an animal. I grabbed Spencer's stiff and lifeless body and screamed, 'God, No, Not My Baby! He Can't Be Dead!' I administered CPR for 15 minutes, pounded on his chest, and yelled, 'Come Back Spencer, Come Back, Come Back!' Then I heard my father say over the phone to 911, 'We've got a dead baby here.' Realization hit. I opened Spencer's eyes, and he was dead. I then hugged his stiff body and emitted sounds I didn't know any human being was capable of making.





I cannot adequately express my horror, anger, and ultimate suffering. My life turned upside down in one day, and each day that goes by I look at as one day closer to death, one day closer to Spencer. Why? Because they told me the benefits outweigh the risks. What does that really mean, and why are these people allowed to play God? After educating myself further [on vaccines], I realize I was lucky to have had Spencer for as long as I did.



Spencer's death certificate said, 'Sudden and Unexpected Death; No Cause Found.' I have met numerous times with [the pathologist] in an effort to have [tests done to detect vaccine toxins]. He said he didn't take the blood in assayable [testable] conditions. I asked him to do an immuno-fluorescence test, and had him speak with Dr. William Torch [the medical researcher who found correlations between vaccines and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome], but [the pathologist] said it wouldn't yield anything. I asked him to do [another test], but he said they don't do that test there. It's maddening and frustrating BUT I WILL NOT GIVE UP. Spencer was so special and loving that his mama will not stop fighting until the day I die.



 



These stories aren't scare tacticts...they are peoples lives and and their children!





Lauralee - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Lori:



If you are actually deciding on giving your child vaccinated, you should wait until they are 5-6 years old. China made the change to all their kids and reduced rates of SIDS significantly, not to mention all the side effects were drasticly lower as they were older.  I don't vaccinate, but If someone is set on it, go for it if it makes you feel better. just make sure you do your research. There are medical doctors out there that don't even vaccinate their own children due to what medical research shows.  Just be careful and watch for any differences in your childs behavior.  Good luck






 





I agree...if you are going to vacinate your child wait until their immune system is stronger.



As far as the SIDS in concerned and lowering the rates of SIDS when infants are not vaccinated,



...I am surprised at all the stories I've read about parents who have lost their baby to SIDS and they said, they were fine and healthy that day, they had just been to the doctor and everything was fine. They had gotten an immunization shot and then suddenly had SIDS! I think it is a bad reaction to the vaccination. They past away from it and the medical world is covering it up with this phenomenon called SIDS and we don't know why kids are getting it. I'm not saying it is the only cause but it does have a lot of parallels!

Liana - posted on 03/31/2009

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Just had a quick read up on chicken pox and why the vaccine isn't offered in the uk, firstly the chicken pox virus lies dormant in the bodyif re activated it becomes shingles.  Shingles can not be reactived by coming in contact with a person who has chicken pox in fact coming in contact with others who have chicken pox after you have had it apparently acts as a booster so lowers the chance of getting shingles.  The general belief over here seems to be that having the vaccination for kids would increase the amount of people getting shingles as adults because they wont be getting that booster effect from coming into contact with it on the odd occaision. Thats what I just read anyway.

Lauralee - posted on 03/31/2009

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Why Your Doctor May Not Care



Your doctor gets paid by the companies that supply the vaccines for each and every vaccine.



A 1993 federal "Immunization Initiative" gave States more than $400 million in vaccine incentives and a $100 bounty for each child vaccinated with the shots the federal government recommended.



You should know that according to the February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), 90 percent of obstetricians and 66 percent of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine, and in 1990 a British survey showed that over 50 percent of doctors in the UK rejected the Hepatitis B vaccine. (British Med Jnl, 27/1/90).



The article, entitled "Feuding Over Vaccines" by Boodman, Sandra G., was printed in the Washington Post on 08 November 2005 on page F1.



Ashley - posted on 03/30/2009

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"The measles vaccine may cause learning disability, retardation, aseptic meningitis, seizures, paralysis, and death. Other researchers have investigated it as a possible cause or co-factor for multiple sclerosis, Reye's syndrome, Guillain-Barre, blood clotting disorders, and juvenile-onset diabetes." - Robert Mendelsohn MD, How To Raise A Healthy Child...In Spite of Your Doctor

"The drug company that produces the mumps vaccine publishes an extensive list of ailments known to have occurred following the mumps or MMR shot. These include aseptic meningitis, encephalitis, orchitis, diabetes mellitus, parotisis (the technical name for mumps), anaphylaxis and death." - Physicians Desk Reference 55th Edition

I would much rather take the chance of my child POSSIBLY catching measles than risk these side effects. Totally a personal choice. Not everyone will agree. But I feel like I made the best decision for my daughter by keeping her vaccine free.

Lauralee!! How fun to see you on here!!! Haha.

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Mary - posted on 10/03/2011

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It will be your cross to bear if you don't get your son a shot and you should know mumps can make a boy sterile . They have prove autism and the vaccines are not related . If your Son grows up sterile will he blame you ? You have to have him vaccinated anyway if you expect him to go to school . I do not believe autism and vaccines are related it is just some place to place the blame

Deveri - posted on 04/03/2009

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This is the most controversial vaccine due to the possible link to Autism. The following if from http://www.ageofautism.com/2009/02/unvac...



...searching for something that would give some insight on unvaccinated children and the rate of autism ~



Meanwhile, the only data that has ever considered unvaccinated children was done through a phone survey funded by Generation Rescue, the results are available here:



http://www.generationrescue.org/survey.h...



Generation Rescue analyzed the data provided by SurveyUSA, and a copy of our analysis can be found here. The most notable results of our survey are with the boys, which is not surprising considering boys represent approximately 80% of total cases of NDs. Namely:



All vaccinated boys, compared to unvaccinated boys:



- Vaccinated boys were 155% more likely to have a neurological disorder (RR 2.55)

- Vaccinated boys were 224% more likely to have ADHD (RR 3.24)

- Vaccinated boys were 61% more likely to have autism (RR 1.61)



Older vaccinated boys, ages 11-17 (about half the boys surveyed), compared to older unvaccinated boys:



- Vaccinated boys were 158% more likely to have a neurological disorder (RR 2.58)

- Vaccinated boys were 317% more likely to have ADHD (RR 4.17)

- Vaccinated boys were 112% more likely to have autism (RR 2.12)



(Note: older children may be a more reliable indicator because many children are not diagnosed until they are 6-8 years old, and we captured data beginning at age 4.)



One final point: the mainstream will never do a study of unvaccinated kids. They already fear what it will show, and the results for them would likely be cataclysmic. Their best bet is to invent reasons the study can't be done. It will be our community that will have to fund this study. It won't be cheap (my guess is $4-6 million). And, it will have to be constructed in such a way and managed by scientists in such a way that it has widespread credibility. When and how do we get from here to there?







~~Both of my children are unvaccinated and very healthy. You can always do a delayed vaccine schedule if you are weary.

Ashley - posted on 04/03/2009

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Quoting Sarah:



Okay, i don't claim to be an expert, but here is how i understand it.  If EVERY child is vaccinated, the diseases don't have a way in.  However, if one child is not, they can get sick.  Then the virus can mutate (you know how there are many flu strains?) and vaccinated children can catch the mutated disease, then causing an epidemic.  Does that make sense?  As far as vaccinations keeping you safe, nothing is 100% guaranteed (think birth control) but in cases where vaccinated children catch the disease, it is much less severe since their bodies already have "immunity".  In order to truly erradicate a disease, everyone must be immunized.






 






And for the mothers who don't like vaccinations because of the use of aborted fetuses in development, I have a question.  Since those fetuses were not aborted for the purpose of making vaccines, don't you think it is better that at least their unfortunate death had some good come out of it...served the purpose of helping others?  Just my opinion but i would be interested in hearing others!





those diseases are still out there. i mean, you are injecting LIVE viruses into people. which means that other people can catch the virus from someone who has been freshly vaccinated. plus, vaccines don't last forever. so older people that do not still have "immunity" can catch the disease. thus, you will ALWAYS have the possibility of the disease being spread around. whether or not everyone is vaccinated. IF vaccines give your child a less severe form of whatever disease, then you should be fine. my unvaccinated daugther will have it worse, but your child will be ok. again, not understanding how unvaccinated children are putting vaccinated children at risk.



reading up on all of these vaccines, i have learned that all of these diseases were starting to diminish before the vaccine was actually administered. so, who are we to say that the disease wouldn't have erradicated THEMSELVES before we started introducing live viruses in vaccines?



i don't claim to be an expert either. or a scientist. or a doctor. or God. but i believe that my daughter is better off without being injected with chemicals for every thing under the planet. the side effects to these vaccines are pretty scary. we eat healthy. work out. she is breast fed. i think she stands a pretty good chance to be a healthy kid. i do not pass judgement on those that do not have the same values that i do. not everything works the same for every family. just like crying it out doesn't work for every family. vaccines aren't for every family.

Heather - posted on 04/03/2009

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I completely agre in getting immunizations my kids did receive theirs, but I just waited for MMR until they were 3 instead of 2. I agree with doing what we can to protect our childre, but I don't agree with being disrespectful to those who don't share our same views. Parents try to do their very best for their children. None of us are perfect, we all make our own mistakes. I don't feel it is fair to judge another on their descisions, when in all reality we don't know 100percent they we are even correct. It isn't like science hasn't failed us before.

Nicola - posted on 04/03/2009

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Quoting Heather:










That is beyond hateful.  Unless you are God I don't see how you could possibly know exactly how the Mumps outbreak started.  Futhermore, people get flu shots, and low and behold people still get the flu.  Cold it be possible that ALL viruses have more than one strain, so unless you want to be pumped full of chemicals for every little thing that could possibly floating out in the air, I suggest you get over your paranoia.  You can't protect from everything and to be so judgemental of others as you have stated before is unneccessary and un called for.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  Unless you mother of the year, Saint Teresa want-a-be, I suggest you work on giving just advice and not judgement.







 





Ur right, there are many strains of the flu vaccine alike, and to back you up even more, if ur child or even urself get the vaccine then the flu, u would have gotten the flu anyway......just 10 times worse. Come one people, consider yourselves lucky we can do these things for our children. i dont see why people dont do it.  

Heather - posted on 04/03/2009

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Quoting Megan:



OMG PPL, U NEED TO GET UR KIDS THERE SHOTS!!!!! THERE IS A REASON WE HARDLY SEE THESE SICKNESSES AROUND IT'S BECAEUSE WE HAVE THE SHOTS TO PROTECT THEM. YOU START NOT GIVING THEM TO UR KIDS AND LOW AND BEHOLD THESE SICKNESSES ARE MAKING A COME BACK, ALL BECAUSE STUPID PAREBTS THINK THERE KIDS DON'T NEED THEM. OUT IN THE FAR WEST THEY THOUGHT THERE KIDS SHOULDN'T GET THE MMR AND NOW THEY HAVE A SEVERE OUTBREAK OUT MUMPS. YOU SEE PARENTS DO THE WRONG THING AND ITS THE BABIES AND KIDS WHO END UP PAYING THE PRICE ALL CAUSE MOMMY AND DADDY THOUGHT THAT THEY SHOULDN'T GET THE NEEDLES. THEY DON'T CAUSE AUTISM OR ANY OTHER RIDICULOUS DISEASE OUR ILLNESS. THEY PROVIDE PROTECTION FOR UR BABY FROM SICKNESSES THAT COULD KILL OR MAKE YOUR BABY VERY ILL. i MEAN REALLY MOST OF US GOT OUR VACCINES WHEN WE WERE BABES AND LOOK OMG WE'RE STILL AROUND, ALIVE AND KICKIN. GROW UP ALREADY!!!!






That is beyond hateful.  Unless you are God I don't see how you could possibly know exactly how the Mumps outbreak started.  Futhermore, people get flu shots, and low and behold people still get the flu.  Cold it be possible that ALL viruses have more than one strain, so unless you want to be pumped full of chemicals for every little thing that could possibly floating out in the air, I suggest you get over your paranoia.  You can't protect from everything and to be so judgemental of others as you have stated before is unneccessary and un called for.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  Unless you mother of the year, Saint Teresa want-a-be, I suggest you work on giving just advice and not judgement.



 

Heather - posted on 04/03/2009

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Quoting Megan:



OMG PPL, U NEED TO GET UR KIDS THERE SHOTS!!!!! THERE IS A REASON WE HARDLY SEE THESE SICKNESSES AROUND IT'S BECAEUSE WE HAVE THE SHOTS TO PROTECT THEM. YOU START NOT GIVING THEM TO UR KIDS AND LOW AND BEHOLD THESE SICKNESSES ARE MAKING A COME BACK, ALL BECAUSE STUPID PAREBTS THINK THERE KIDS DON'T NEED THEM. OUT IN THE FAR WEST THEY THOUGHT THERE KIDS SHOULDN'T GET THE MMR AND NOW THEY HAVE A SEVERE OUTBREAK OUT MUMPS. YOU SEE PARENTS DO THE WRONG THING AND ITS THE BABIES AND KIDS WHO END UP PAYING THE PRICE ALL CAUSE MOMMY AND DADDY THOUGHT THAT THEY SHOULDN'T GET THE NEEDLES. THEY DON'T CAUSE AUTISM OR ANY OTHER RIDICULOUS DISEASE OUR ILLNESS. THEY PROVIDE PROTECTION FOR UR BABY FROM SICKNESSES THAT COULD KILL OR MAKE YOUR BABY VERY ILL. i MEAN REALLY MOST OF US GOT OUR VACCINES WHEN WE WERE BABES AND LOOK OMG WE'RE STILL AROUND, ALIVE AND KICKIN. GROW UP ALREADY!!!!






That is beyond hateful.  Unless you are God I don't see how you could possibly know exactly how the Mumps outbreak started.  Futhermore, people get flu shots, and low and behold people still get the flu.  Cold it be possible that ALL viruses have more than one strain, so unless you want to be pumped full of chemicals for every little thing that could possibly floating out in the air, I suggest you get over your paranoia.  You can't protect from everything and to be so judgemental of others as you have stated before is unneccessary and un called for.  You should be ashamed of yourself.  Unless you mother of the year, Saint Teresa want-a-be, I suggest you work on giving just advice and not judgement.



 

Nicola - posted on 04/03/2009

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this is a pretty controversial topic! im not sure where most of u are from but here in australia, if ur child doesnt get his/her immunisation, you cant send them to day care and even some schools. its outs a huge strain on the health system and can cause ur child or another child harm. i also believe abortion is wrong, but u cant get mad at the people who are out there trying to save you r children by doing what they have to do to help our kids. but it is ur choice, just dont complain if your child gets sick i say.

Megan - posted on 04/03/2009

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OMG PPL, U NEED TO GET UR KIDS THERE SHOTS!!!!! THERE IS A REASON WE HARDLY SEE THESE SICKNESSES AROUND IT'S BECAEUSE WE HAVE THE SHOTS TO PROTECT THEM. YOU START NOT GIVING THEM TO UR KIDS AND LOW AND BEHOLD THESE SICKNESSES ARE MAKING A COME BACK, ALL BECAUSE STUPID PAREBTS THINK THERE KIDS DON'T NEED THEM. OUT IN THE FAR WEST THEY THOUGHT THERE KIDS SHOULDN'T GET THE MMR AND NOW THEY HAVE A SEVERE OUTBREAK OUT MUMPS. YOU SEE PARENTS DO THE WRONG THING AND ITS THE BABIES AND KIDS WHO END UP PAYING THE PRICE ALL CAUSE MOMMY AND DADDY THOUGHT THAT THEY SHOULDN'T GET THE NEEDLES. THEY DON'T CAUSE AUTISM OR ANY OTHER RIDICULOUS DISEASE OUR ILLNESS. THEY PROVIDE PROTECTION FOR UR BABY FROM SICKNESSES THAT COULD KILL OR MAKE YOUR BABY VERY ILL. i MEAN REALLY MOST OF US GOT OUR VACCINES WHEN WE WERE BABES AND LOOK OMG WE'RE STILL AROUND, ALIVE AND KICKIN. GROW UP ALREADY!!!!

Sarah - posted on 04/03/2009

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Quoting Ashley:



Quoting Sara:




Quoting Ashley:





Quoting Sara:

I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.









what about anti-vaccine books? written by doctors? the books that i read are full of scientific evidence, not emotional stories.










people in underdeveloped countries probably need vaccines. they don't have the knowledge and hygeine that america has.










i have a friend from europe. he told me that people in europe don't vaccinate NEARLY as much as people in america do. because they are educated on just how dangerous vaccines can be. his words, not mine.










i'm not saying that vaccinating is wrong. but IN MY OPINION, my children are better off without them. just like other people have said, it's a choice. just like cloth diapering and breast feeding. every mother only wants what is best for their child. i completely respect any one that chooses to vaccinate. i'm just looking for the same respect. (not saying that YOU don't respect non-vaxing, i just mean in general)













I am seriously not trying to put anyone down, just sharing my opinion and I do feel strongly about it. 








 








Funny thing about the hygiene thing you talked about.  Hygiene in America (better sewer systems, sanitization, etc) actually INCREASED communicable disease in the 20th century.  The polio epidemic in the '50's was a result, they came to find out later, of increased hygiene which lessened our exposure to disease and therefore made our immunity weaker.  There was a really interesting documentary recently on PBS about Polio and Dr. Jonas Salk that talked about that.








 








Also, I have read Dr. Sear's vaccination book and even he isn't anti-vaccine, and I like his idea of an alternate vaccine schedule.  If you could please point me to a reputable book or website, I'd be happy to look at it.  I have not yet been convinced by any evidence I have seen that not vaccinating children is the right choice.  And I also certainly think it is a public health issue that should concern us all.  I don't think it's as simple as some people make it out to be because in this case, one person's actions, or a group of people in close geographic proximity, can have a large impact on me, my family and my community.









i would be interested in reading the article about how better sewer systems caused a polio outbreak. outbreaks of different diseases come and go. plagues come and go. do you think that the whooping cough outbreak was from something similiar? how can we REALLY even know what caused it?






two of my favorite books are 'the sanctity of being human blood" by Dr. Tim O'Shea and "Vaccines, are they really safe and effective?" by neil miller. i also like the movie "vaccines: the risk, the benefits, the choices" by Dr. sherry tenpenny. very long, but good info.






you mentioned earlier that "a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk." if you believe so fervenlty that vaccines keep you safe, then how is my unvaccinated child putting you or the "herd" at risk? your vaccine should keep you disease





Okay, i don't claim to be an expert, but here is how i understand it.  If EVERY child is vaccinated, the diseases don't have a way in.  However, if one child is not, they can get sick.  Then the virus can mutate (you know how there are many flu strains?) and vaccinated children can catch the mutated disease, then causing an epidemic.  Does that make sense?  As far as vaccinations keeping you safe, nothing is 100% guaranteed (think birth control) but in cases where vaccinated children catch the disease, it is much less severe since their bodies already have "immunity".  In order to truly erradicate a disease, everyone must be immunized.



 



And for the mothers who don't like vaccinations because of the use of aborted fetuses in development, I have a question.  Since those fetuses were not aborted for the purpose of making vaccines, don't you think it is better that at least their unfortunate death had some good come out of it...served the purpose of helping others?  Just my opinion but i would be interested in hearing others!

Stevie - posted on 04/02/2009

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go when it is sugested ask your doc or look at the sheets that say when they should be vaccinated

Brenda - posted on 04/02/2009

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This is the one area that I don't agree with even though I believe in most other Attachment Parenting ideals.  I had a mother that almost died from Polio as a child, and I honestly don't believe in taking any chances.  Mumps are dangerous and can indeed sterilize a child.  Even should the child contract Mumps after the vaccine, the cases are usually much milder and rarely lead to sterilization or death (where an unvaccinated child can). 



I just think that any chance of prevention, even small, is better than nothing.  And even if my child contracts something that he's been vaccinated for, if it is any milder and causes any amount of less suffering than if he hadn't had the vaccine, then I'm for it.  My son has been vaccinated for chicken pox, because I wish I had been able to be vaccinated for it.  I've had it three times and am susseptable to getting it again anytime I'm around anyone with it.  All it takes is one unvaccinated foreign person who doesn't know they're carrying a dangerous disease to come in contact with an unvaccinated child to lead to their death.  My son is almost four and has never had any problems from his vaccines, and my baby that is due next month will also be fully vaccinated, on schedule (I do not agree with delaying them because infants are so much more likely to die from one of the diseases than an older child).



Personally, I'd get the vaccine if mumps are going around in your area.  But that's just me!

Kate CP - posted on 04/02/2009

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Unless your child attends a private school or private daycare facility they CANNOT keep your kid out of school because they don't have vaccines. You CAN opt out. The administration will make life really hard for a while, but it can be done.

Samantha - posted on 04/02/2009

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I am a registered nurse and both of my boys have had all of their immunizations up to date...kids can get the mmr vaccine any time after they turn 1 and then again a few years after they get the first. The benefits of getting vaccines outweigh the risks. Neither of my kids had any side effects (although some do get some side effects) thus far...knock on wood! :)

as far as how they get the vaccines I am prochoice...i would NEVER have an abortion myself but i don't think it's far for anyone to decide what someone else should do with their baby. However, I didn't know that about vaccines and that does disturb me. Will it stop me from getting my kids vaccinated? No...vaccines save lifes...

Heather - posted on 04/02/2009

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If your child goes to daycare, then you may not have a choice, but neither of my children got their MMR until after 3yrs old. I declined it and the kids stayed at home with me. Schools require it though, so if you want to put your children in Pre-K, yu will have to get it at 3yrs.



I chose not to simply because i figured it wasn't worth the risk, I realise there thaere isn't conclusive proof of the mercury causing autism, but I didn't want to play the game of chance with my children if I didn't have to. Immunizations are the parents choice and don't let the doctors talk you into anything that yu do not want for your child.

Stasia - posted on 04/01/2009

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Ashley, people claim that they "save lives" because although there is no 100% guarantee that the child will not get the disease there is an immensely significant reduction.
For my schooling I am working in an immunization clinic right now only a couple days a week and all those reactions that you listed are of course possible, but highly unlikely. Like severe allergic reaction the risk is about 1 in 1,000,000. Slim but of course worth looking in to.
Thankyou for your perspective it gives me something to consider and more things to look into, i think as parents we all want to do what is best for our children it is just hard to know what that is sometimes because of the mountains of conflicting advice!!!

Charley - posted on 04/01/2009

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My son ha shad all his vaccinations including his MMR and has recently had his pre school jabs which includes an MMR booster. He has never suffered any side effects and myself and my sister both had ours when we were kids. I think we are in danger of turning int a nanny state and was much more worried about measles and mumps than any risk from the vaccine itself. I ama nursery nurse and I know how quickly infection can spread especially in a pre school environment. My son had strep B meningitis when he was born and I almost lost him so I certainly wan't going to take the risk.

Lacey - posted on 04/01/2009

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All of my children have been vaccinated, with no adverse side effects, and my oldest son has had an additional vac that my other two don't have due to his medical condition. I think people forget that vaccines aren't to eliminate the risk of kids getting the illnesses, but to reduce the risk of them getting it and already having an increased immune defence to certain illnesses due to the vaccines in the event of contracting these illnesses. I've gotten my information from various sites about vaccines, but the government one was the most informative (once you learn to navigate it)
www.phac-aspc.gc.ca/im/vs-sv/factsfigs-eng.php

Annie - posted on 04/01/2009

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Quoting Cindi:



I have a 18 month old little boy. We are vaxing but on a delayed schedule.  We will not be doing the chickenpox vax at all.  The MMR we are still trying to decide for sure if we want to give it to him. If we do have him get it it won't be till he is 3 years old.  He had a horrible reaction at his 9 month vaxs and was in the hospital for 2 days.  All he wanted to do was sleep and he threw up so much that he was throwing up bile. After that we decided to change the way we did things.  I do think that children should get vaxed but not so many and not so soon.  With our next child we will not do any vaxs till he/she is around years old.  My Dr. told me that with all vaxs they recomend a time frame when they should get the shots but they can get them whenever you want them to.  You don't have to do what the government tells you is the best.  Read the Dr. Sears book, it has tons of great info and has helped us decide on what we think is best. I don't agree with everything that they put into the vax's and I am prolife and I hope that one day they wont need to use unborn babies.  






There is a video out there showing a baby being aborted. It's about 7 weeks old.  When they inject the solution to kill the baby you can see it trying to swim away from it.  No one thinks that when it's so early on that it's something "real" and can feel pain. 





wow your poor baby! sounds like he was really bad, i guess he must have reacted badley to 1 or more of the ingredients in the vax, shame they couldnt let you know what that way you would be able to avoid this happening again.  at least your docs were helpful and you were able to work out a better routine for the vax's - good for you, all that matters is what is best for your child at the end of the day and hope he does well x

Jayne - posted on 03/31/2009

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your mad if u dont get all of them done and up to date u just dont no wat the future holds

Ashley - posted on 03/31/2009

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poor wendy. she made a post asking for advice and well took it and ran with it. lol.

I'M SORRY!!!

Sara - posted on 03/31/2009

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No prob! Thanks for your info too, I am interested to see what those books have to say!

Ashley - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Sara:



Quoting Ashley:




Quoting Sara:





Quoting Ashley:






Quoting Sara:

I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.











what about anti-vaccine books? written by doctors? the books that i read are full of scientific evidence, not emotional stories.












people in underdeveloped countries probably need vaccines. they don't have the knowledge and hygeine that america has.












i have a friend from europe. he told me that people in europe don't vaccinate NEARLY as much as people in america do. because they are educated on just how dangerous vaccines can be. his words, not mine.












i'm not saying that vaccinating is wrong. but IN MY OPINION, my children are better off without them. just like other people have said, it's a choice. just like cloth diapering and breast feeding. every mother only wants what is best for their child. i completely respect any one that chooses to vaccinate. i'm just looking for the same respect. (not saying that YOU don't respect non-vaxing, i just mean in general)
















I am seriously not trying to put anyone down, just sharing my opinion and I do feel strongly about it. 










 










Funny thing about the hygiene thing you talked about.  Hygiene in America (better sewer systems, sanitization, etc) actually INCREASED communicable disease in the 20th century.  The polio epidemic in the '50's was a result, they came to find out later, of increased hygiene which lessened our exposure to disease and therefore made our immunity weaker.  There was a really interesting documentary recently on PBS about Polio and Dr. Jonas Salk that talked about that.










 










Also, I have read Dr. Sear's vaccination book and even he isn't anti-vaccine, and I like his idea of an alternate vaccine schedule.  If you could please point me to a reputable book or website, I'd be happy to look at it.  I have not yet been convinced by any evidence I have seen that not vaccinating children is the right choice.  And I also certainly think it is a public health issue that should concern us all.  I don't think it's as simple as some people make it out to be because in this case, one person's actions, or a group of people in close geographic proximity, can have a large impact on me, my family and my community.












i would be interested in reading the article about how better sewer systems caused a polio outbreak. outbreaks of different diseases come and go. plagues come and go. do you think that the whooping cough outbreak was from something similiar? how can we REALLY even know what caused it?








two of my favorite books are 'the sanctity of being human blood" by Dr. Tim O'Shea and "Vaccines, are they really safe and effective?" by neil miller. i also like the movie "vaccines: the risk, the benefits, the choices" by Dr. sherry tenpenny. very long, but good info.








you mentioned earlier that "a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk." if you believe so fervenlty that vaccines keep you safe, then how is my unvaccinated child putting you or the "herd" at risk? your vaccine should keep you disease free.









Thanks for the info...






 






Put simply, paralytic polio was an inadvertent by-product of modern sanitary conditions. When people were no longer in contact with the open sewers and privies that had once exposed them to the polio virus in very early infancy when paralysis rarely occurs, the disease changed from an endemic condition so mild that no one knew of its existence to a seemingly new epidemic threat of mysterious origins and terrifyingly unknown scope (p. 23).





Read this...






http://www.cloudnet.com/~edrbsass/poliod...






http://www.childrenshospital.org/researc...






 






Also, I'm surprised you didn't run accross this in your research on vaccinations.  The CDC states that vaccinations are not 100% effective, most are only 85-95% effective.  So yeah, it puts vaccinated kids at risk to have a disease outbreak in a community.






http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/





yes, i knew that vaccines weren't 100% effective. just wondering why some moms SWEAR that vaccines "save lives" when there is actually not guarantee of that.



i will definitely look at those sites!! sounds interesting!! thanks!!!

Sara - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Ashley:



Quoting Sara:




Quoting Ashley:





Quoting Sara:

I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.









what about anti-vaccine books? written by doctors? the books that i read are full of scientific evidence, not emotional stories.










people in underdeveloped countries probably need vaccines. they don't have the knowledge and hygeine that america has.










i have a friend from europe. he told me that people in europe don't vaccinate NEARLY as much as people in america do. because they are educated on just how dangerous vaccines can be. his words, not mine.










i'm not saying that vaccinating is wrong. but IN MY OPINION, my children are better off without them. just like other people have said, it's a choice. just like cloth diapering and breast feeding. every mother only wants what is best for their child. i completely respect any one that chooses to vaccinate. i'm just looking for the same respect. (not saying that YOU don't respect non-vaxing, i just mean in general)













I am seriously not trying to put anyone down, just sharing my opinion and I do feel strongly about it. 








 








Funny thing about the hygiene thing you talked about.  Hygiene in America (better sewer systems, sanitization, etc) actually INCREASED communicable disease in the 20th century.  The polio epidemic in the '50's was a result, they came to find out later, of increased hygiene which lessened our exposure to disease and therefore made our immunity weaker.  There was a really interesting documentary recently on PBS about Polio and Dr. Jonas Salk that talked about that.








 








Also, I have read Dr. Sear's vaccination book and even he isn't anti-vaccine, and I like his idea of an alternate vaccine schedule.  If you could please point me to a reputable book or website, I'd be happy to look at it.  I have not yet been convinced by any evidence I have seen that not vaccinating children is the right choice.  And I also certainly think it is a public health issue that should concern us all.  I don't think it's as simple as some people make it out to be because in this case, one person's actions, or a group of people in close geographic proximity, can have a large impact on me, my family and my community.









i would be interested in reading the article about how better sewer systems caused a polio outbreak. outbreaks of different diseases come and go. plagues come and go. do you think that the whooping cough outbreak was from something similiar? how can we REALLY even know what caused it?






two of my favorite books are 'the sanctity of being human blood" by Dr. Tim O'Shea and "Vaccines, are they really safe and effective?" by neil miller. i also like the movie "vaccines: the risk, the benefits, the choices" by Dr. sherry tenpenny. very long, but good info.






you mentioned earlier that "a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk." if you believe so fervenlty that vaccines keep you safe, then how is my unvaccinated child putting you or the "herd" at risk? your vaccine should keep you disease free.





Thanks for the info...



 



Put simply, paralytic polio was an inadvertent by-product of modern sanitary conditions. When people were no longer in contact with the open sewers and privies that had once exposed them to the polio virus in very early infancy when paralysis rarely occurs, the disease changed from an endemic condition so mild that no one knew of its existence to a seemingly new epidemic threat of mysterious origins and terrifyingly unknown scope (p. 23).


Read this...



http://www.cloudnet.com/~edrbsass/poliod...



http://www.childrenshospital.org/researc...



 



Also, I'm surprised you didn't run accross this in your research on vaccinations.  The CDC states that vaccinations are not 100% effective, most are only 85-95% effective.  So yeah, it puts vaccinated kids at risk to have a disease outbreak in a community.



http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/

Kate CP - posted on 03/31/2009

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36

754

Quoting Ashley:



Quoting Sara:




Quoting Ashley:





Quoting Sara:

I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.









what about anti-vaccine books? written by doctors? the books that i read are full of scientific evidence, not emotional stories.










people in underdeveloped countries probably need vaccines. they don't have the knowledge and hygeine that america has.










i have a friend from europe. he told me that people in europe don't vaccinate NEARLY as much as people in america do. because they are educated on just how dangerous vaccines can be. his words, not mine.










i'm not saying that vaccinating is wrong. but IN MY OPINION, my children are better off without them. just like other people have said, it's a choice. just like cloth diapering and breast feeding. every mother only wants what is best for their child. i completely respect any one that chooses to vaccinate. i'm just looking for the same respect. (not saying that YOU don't respect non-vaxing, i just mean in general)













I am seriously not trying to put anyone down, just sharing my opinion and I do feel strongly about it. 








 








Funny thing about the hygiene thing you talked about.  Hygiene in America (better sewer systems, sanitization, etc) actually INCREASED communicable disease in the 20th century.  The polio epidemic in the '50's was a result, they came to find out later, of increased hygiene which lessened our exposure to disease and therefore made our immunity weaker.  There was a really interesting documentary recently on PBS about Polio and Dr. Jonas Salk that talked about that.








 








Also, I have read Dr. Sear's vaccination book and even he isn't anti-vaccine, and I like his idea of an alternate vaccine schedule.  If you could please point me to a reputable book or website, I'd be happy to look at it.  I have not yet been convinced by any evidence I have seen that not vaccinating children is the right choice.  And I also certainly think it is a public health issue that should concern us all.  I don't think it's as simple as some people make it out to be because in this case, one person's actions, or a group of people in close geographic proximity, can have a large impact on me, my family and my community.









i would be interested in reading the article about how better sewer systems caused a polio outbreak. outbreaks of different diseases come and go. plagues come and go. do you think that the whooping cough outbreak was from something similiar? how can we REALLY even know what caused it?






two of my favorite books are 'the sanctity of being human blood" by Dr. Tim O'Shea and "Vaccines, are they really safe and effective?" by neil miller. i also like the movie "vaccines: the risk, the benefits, the choices" by Dr. sherry tenpenny. very long, but good info.






you mentioned earlier that "a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk." if you believe so fervenlty that vaccines keep you safe, then how is my unvaccinated child putting you or the "herd" at risk? your vaccine should keep you disease free.





ep·i·de·mi·ol·o·gy Pronunciation:\ˌe-pə-ˌdē-mē-ˈä-lə-jē, -ˌde-mē-\Function:nounEtymology:Late Latin epidemia + International Scientific Vocabulary -logyDate:circa 1860

1 : a branch of medical science that deals with the incidence, distribution, and control of disease in a population2 : the sum of the factors controlling the presence or absence of a disease or pathogen





From the CDC on MMR vaccine effectiveness:


The United Kingdom and United States have recentlyexperienced large outbreaks of mumps, which raises concernsabout vaccine effectiveness. The effectiveness of themumps component of the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR)vaccine was estimated using the screening method. In Englandfrom January 2004 through March 2005, 312 cases ofmumps were reported in children eligible to have received 2doses of MMR vaccine. Of these children, 52 (16.7%) hadreceived 1 dose of MMR vaccine, and 97 (31.1%) had received2 doses. Vaccine effectiveness was 88% (95% confidence interval [CI] 83%–91%) for 1 dose and 95% (95%CI 93%–96%) for 2 doses. The effectiveness of 1 dose declinedfrom 96% (95% CI 81%–99%) in 2-year-olds to 66%(95% CI 30%–83%) in 11- to 12-year-olds, and the effectivenessof 2 doses declined from 99% (95% CI 97%–99.5%)in 5- to 6-year-olds to 86% (95% CI 74%–93%) in 11- to12-year-olds (p

Ashley - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Stasia:

It is very true Ashley what you say about not getting complete immunity.

I am wondering about your statement of "side effects of vaccines are MUCH worse than the actual disease,"

I was a preemie and have suffered numerous pneumonia bouts throughout my life. Because of this I am aware that my daughter will be exposed to this. I chose to get her vaccinated against this and she has had no side effects, especially none that are worse than a toddler getting pneumonia.

I do however thoroughly respect your opinion and your choice to do what is right for your child. I will not be getting the chickenpox, gardisil or some other vaccines for my daughter but the ones I have given her so far have not given negative side effects.

I also have a friend who never got ANY vaccinations and she was extremely sickly as a child and she now DOES have autism despite her mother choosing not to vaccinate for fear of this outcome. In NO way am I saying that if you don't vaccinate your children that your child will be sick I am only explaining my motives for vaccinating my own daughter.


i have to say, i have never had pneumonia. so i have NO idea what that is like... but this is the excerpt from a book i read...



"The package insterts produced by the vaccine manufacturer list several adverse reactions that occurred following trials of the vaccine. Althought the manufacturer does not admit a causative relationship between this vaccine and many of these reactions, parents who are considering this vaccine may wish to weigh the implications. Such reactions indluded: asthma, seizures, pneumonia, diabetes, autoimmune disease, ear infections, neutropenia, thrombocytopenia, wheezing, croupe, and sudden infant death syndrome. - www.pneumo.com/vaccine/PI.html "



i am NOT saying that you shouldn't get the vaccine. NOT AT ALL. just relaying the part of the book that you asked about. i don't know if the vaccine caused these thigns or not. i am not giving my daughter ANY vaccines though. that is TOTALLY a personal thing. in your case, i can DEFINITELY see why you would vaccinate your child with the pneumonia vaccine.



i'm not one of those that thinks that vaccines cause autism. sure, the child may have a predisposed gene for austim and the vaccine may have pushed them over the edge. but i don't think vaccines cause autism. i don't vaccinate simply because of the side effects listed on most of the manufacturers websites.

Ashley - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Sara:



Quoting Ashley:




Quoting Sara:

I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.







what about anti-vaccine books? written by doctors? the books that i read are full of scientific evidence, not emotional stories.








people in underdeveloped countries probably need vaccines. they don't have the knowledge and hygeine that america has.








i have a friend from europe. he told me that people in europe don't vaccinate NEARLY as much as people in america do. because they are educated on just how dangerous vaccines can be. his words, not mine.








i'm not saying that vaccinating is wrong. but IN MY OPINION, my children are better off without them. just like other people have said, it's a choice. just like cloth diapering and breast feeding. every mother only wants what is best for their child. i completely respect any one that chooses to vaccinate. i'm just looking for the same respect. (not saying that YOU don't respect non-vaxing, i just mean in general)










I am seriously not trying to put anyone down, just sharing my opinion and I do feel strongly about it. 






 






Funny thing about the hygiene thing you talked about.  Hygiene in America (better sewer systems, sanitization, etc) actually INCREASED communicable disease in the 20th century.  The polio epidemic in the '50's was a result, they came to find out later, of increased hygiene which lessened our exposure to disease and therefore made our immunity weaker.  There was a really interesting documentary recently on PBS about Polio and Dr. Jonas Salk that talked about that.






 






Also, I have read Dr. Sear's vaccination book and even he isn't anti-vaccine, and I like his idea of an alternate vaccine schedule.  If you could please point me to a reputable book or website, I'd be happy to look at it.  I have not yet been convinced by any evidence I have seen that not vaccinating children is the right choice.  And I also certainly think it is a public health issue that should concern us all.  I don't think it's as simple as some people make it out to be because in this case, one person's actions, or a group of people in close geographic proximity, can have a large impact on me, my family and my community.





i would be interested in reading the article about how better sewer systems caused a polio outbreak. outbreaks of different diseases come and go. plagues come and go. do you think that the whooping cough outbreak was from something similiar? how can we REALLY even know what caused it?



two of my favorite books are 'the sanctity of being human blood" by Dr. Tim O'Shea and "Vaccines, are they really safe and effective?" by neil miller. i also like the movie "vaccines: the risk, the benefits, the choices" by Dr. sherry tenpenny. very long, but good info.



you mentioned earlier that "a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk." if you believe so fervenlty that vaccines keep you safe, then how is my unvaccinated child putting you or the "herd" at risk? your vaccine should keep you disease free.

Stephanie - posted on 03/31/2009

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My daughter is 2 and is up to date with all her shots and is doing fine. I think it all comes down to what is comfortable to you. As a mom you will know what to do.

Kimberly - posted on 03/31/2009

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I would like to add though. I'm irked that my son was given the chicken pox vaccine. I never wanted him to have it but it came in the package of immunizations that are standard now and was given it before I could do anything since I wasn't told that he was getting it. Some things are great to vaccinate against, and others kinda pointless since they aren't life threatening. I had chicken pox....got over it and never had it again. Kids do need germ exposure to have an immune system of their own. The US is a big to germaphobic.....that aside...I still say talk to your doc and look into it on your own.

Kimberly - posted on 03/31/2009

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I'm really not sure what age MMR is given but it's a good idea since mumps is such a bad thing, and since most schools and colleges require that kids have it before admission, it may be a have to whether you like it or not. Sterilization may not be an issue though, because Polio supposedly leaves people sterile, but my dad had it and had 2 kids. Granted he had a mild case, but still. Talk to your doctor and get all the facts straight. Also, try PubMed.org, and you may be able to find a lot of research on it. I hope I've been somewhat helpful.

Sara - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Ashley:



Quoting Sara:

I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.





what about anti-vaccine books? written by doctors? the books that i read are full of scientific evidence, not emotional stories.






people in underdeveloped countries probably need vaccines. they don't have the knowledge and hygeine that america has.






i have a friend from europe. he told me that people in europe don't vaccinate NEARLY as much as people in america do. because they are educated on just how dangerous vaccines can be. his words, not mine.






i'm not saying that vaccinating is wrong. but IN MY OPINION, my children are better off without them. just like other people have said, it's a choice. just like cloth diapering and breast feeding. every mother only wants what is best for their child. i completely respect any one that chooses to vaccinate. i'm just looking for the same respect. (not saying that YOU don't respect non-vaxing, i just mean in general)






I am seriously not trying to put anyone down, just sharing my opinion and I do feel strongly about it. 



 



Funny thing about the hygiene thing you talked about.  Hygiene in America (better sewer systems, sanitization, etc) actually INCREASED communicable disease in the 20th century.  The polio epidemic in the '50's was a result, they came to find out later, of increased hygiene which lessened our exposure to disease and therefore made our immunity weaker.  There was a really interesting documentary recently on PBS about Polio and Dr. Jonas Salk that talked about that.



 



Also, I have read Dr. Sear's vaccination book and even he isn't anti-vaccine, and I like his idea of an alternate vaccine schedule.  If you could please point me to a reputable book or website, I'd be happy to look at it.  I have not yet been convinced by any evidence I have seen that not vaccinating children is the right choice.  And I also certainly think it is a public health issue that should concern us all.  I don't think it's as simple as some people make it out to be because in this case, one person's actions, or a group of people in close geographic proximity, can have a large impact on me, my family and my community.

Stasia - posted on 03/31/2009

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It is very true Ashley what you say about not getting complete immunity.

I am wondering about your statement of "side effects of vaccines are MUCH worse than the actual disease,"

I was a preemie and have suffered numerous pneumonia bouts throughout my life. Because of this I am aware that my daughter will be exposed to this. I chose to get her vaccinated against this and she has had no side effects, especially none that are worse than a toddler getting pneumonia.

I do however thoroughly respect your opinion and your choice to do what is right for your child. I will not be getting the chickenpox, gardisil or some other vaccines for my daughter but the ones I have given her so far have not given negative side effects.

I also have a friend who never got ANY vaccinations and she was extremely sickly as a child and she now DOES have autism despite her mother choosing not to vaccinate for fear of this outcome. In NO way am I saying that if you don't vaccinate your children that your child will be sick I am only explaining my motives for vaccinating my own daughter.

Kate CP - posted on 03/31/2009

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Okay, I have a question. If you (you in general, not a specific "you") are against vaccines because of all the unnecessary chemicals in them do you still feed your kids processed foods? What about during pregnancy-did you take pre-natals? Did you have an epidural or other drugs when you delivered? What about if your kid DOES get sick? Do you give them Tylenol? Antibiotics? Do you let your child go outside in the city? Do you wash their clothes in detergent? Do you wash your dishes with dish soap?

If you (general "you" again) are against vaccines because of all the stuff in them then I have to ask why you would use any of these products which also have harmful chemicals and preservatives in them?

Ashley - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Stasia:



Quoting Jill:




Quoting Amber:

may i say one more point. ... for the people that say that an unvaccinated child puts their child at risk and other children at risk..Your child is immunized so don't worry about it ...if you had such faith the immunizations would work you wouldn't be worried about an umimmunized child. If my unimmunized child contracted a rare disease that hasnt been in the united states in decades...aka most of the stuff they vaccinate against --gives it to another child...that child wasn't immunized either so its just as much that mom's "fault" as it would be mine. I am against anything that uses aborted fetal tissue or cells. You can now donate your childs umbilical cord for FREE that have the same cells as the aborted baby. I donated all 3 of my childrens cords.








What about the unborn babies and the children who haven't reached the appropriate age? If you are prolife, you should be concerned about the fetuses that are at risk, because of children who didn't receive their vaccines.









ouldnt have said it better myself. I am a little skeptical about whether I believe all these info regarding fetal tissue etc. I will have to do some research but I agree with Jill, there are acults and OTHER unborn children to think about too. It is a little hypocritical to leave that ot of the equation.






Also, the reason that these diseases are rare is BECAUSE of vaccinations so you are able to not vax your kid because other people did.





every vaccine book that i have read has quoted prominent medical journals by saying that most of these diseases were already diminishing before the vaccines started being administered.

Ashley - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Janell:



i believe everyone should be able to make their own choices when it comes to their children,but not about vaccines! this is somethig that was meant to keep our children safe, what does it matter where it came from or how it was obtained ?? it keeps them safe from all of those unimaginable diseases that our kids could get, how can you say that "oh because its from a human fetus i dont agree, it was that persons choice to do that, so the docs made a way to use what they needed to, i agree it sounds a little morbid.....but......what are you gonna do, just let your kid get sick all the time, because you think its wrong???? suck it up and let your kids get their shots- like our moms always used to say, its for your own good!!!





my decision not to vax had NOTHING to do with the fetal tissue.



i think that the side effects of the vaccines are MUCH worse than the actual disease. plus, vaccines DO NOT give you COMPLETE immunity. even your dr will tell you that. so there is still a chance that your child will catch those diseases. my younger sister was given the chicken pox shot and STILL got the chicken pox. so no, vaccines don't keep your children "safe from those unimaginable diseases."



i believe that our bodies were PERFECTLY desingned by God. with the help of breast milk, a well balanced diet and good hygeine, i plan on letting my daughters immune system develop naturally. if she gets the chicken pox, i'm ok with that. i'm not going to inject her with all kinds of harmful chemicals to "keep her from geting sick."

Stasia - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Jill:



Quoting Amber:

may i say one more point. ... for the people that say that an unvaccinated child puts their child at risk and other children at risk..Your child is immunized so don't worry about it ...if you had such faith the immunizations would work you wouldn't be worried about an umimmunized child. If my unimmunized child contracted a rare disease that hasnt been in the united states in decades...aka most of the stuff they vaccinate against --gives it to another child...that child wasn't immunized either so its just as much that mom's "fault" as it would be mine. I am against anything that uses aborted fetal tissue or cells. You can now donate your childs umbilical cord for FREE that have the same cells as the aborted baby. I donated all 3 of my childrens cords.






What about the unborn babies and the children who haven't reached the appropriate age? If you are prolife, you should be concerned about the fetuses that are at risk, because of children who didn't receive their vaccines.





ouldnt have said it better myself. I am a little skeptical about whether I believe all these info regarding fetal tissue etc. I will have to do some research but I agree with Jill, there are acults and OTHER unborn children to think about too. It is a little hypocritical to leave that ot of the equation.



Also, the reason that these diseases are rare is BECAUSE of vaccinations so you are able to not vax your kid because other people did.

Janell - posted on 03/31/2009

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i believe everyone should be able to make their own choices when it comes to their children,but not about vaccines! this is somethig that was meant to keep our children safe, what does it matter where it came from or how it was obtained ?? it keeps them safe from all of those unimaginable diseases that our kids could get, how can you say that "oh because its from a human fetus i dont agree, it was that persons choice to do that, so the docs made a way to use what they needed to, i agree it sounds a little morbid.....but......what are you gonna do, just let your kid get sick all the time, because you think its wrong???? suck it up and let your kids get their shots- like our moms always used to say, its for your own good!!!

Ashley - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Sara:

I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.


what about anti-vaccine books? written by doctors? the books that i read are full of scientific evidence, not emotional stories.



people in underdeveloped countries probably need vaccines. they don't have the knowledge and hygeine that america has.



i have a friend from europe. he told me that people in europe don't vaccinate NEARLY as much as people in america do. because they are educated on just how dangerous vaccines can be. his words, not mine.



i'm not saying that vaccinating is wrong. but IN MY OPINION, my children are better off without them. just like other people have said, it's a choice. just like cloth diapering and breast feeding. every mother only wants what is best for their child. i completely respect any one that chooses to vaccinate. i'm just looking for the same respect. (not saying that YOU don't respect non-vaxing, i just mean in general)

Sara - posted on 03/31/2009

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I think anti-vaccination websites rely heavily on emotional appeal to convey their message, there's not much actual science content, just links to other anti-vaccination websites and claims that they lack to back up with any actual proof. I understand why someone would not have their child immunized if they were prolife, as was mentioned before, but I find most of the anti-vaccination websites I've encountered not very informative or backed up with any scientific data.

I believe that people want an explanation for why their children die (or get sick, as with autism), as any parent would, and SIDS does not give them the closure that they need. It's easy to blame vaccinations for that, or to try and come up with some link. But in the all the research I have done, there are no reputable sources (scholarly/scientific papers, studies, etc) that can prove a link between immunizations and autism, SIDS, etc. Certainly not enough to convice me that vaccinations are bad for my baby.

It kind of makes me mad, because we live in a country where we have the "luxury" to turn down vaccinations for our babies, and there are mothers in underdeveloped and economically depressed countries that lose babies to the diseases that we don't even have to worry about any more. We have vaccination programs to thank for that people! If enough people stop vaccinating their children, we will have to worry about them again (anyone read about the whooping cough epidemic in Boulder, CO?). So in a way, when you chose not to vaccinate, that choice affects others in your community, not just yourself and your family. Vaccinations don't protect 100%, so a non-vaccinated child can put a vaccinated child at risk.

Jill - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Sarah:



Quoting Amber:







I'd know if my child had measles, mumps, ruebella, diptheria,hepititis chicken pox etc. its not like they are "silent killers" they're kinda obvious. I wouldn't subject someone elses child. Plus I'd love to know the last time anything (besides chicken pox they are harmless for the most part) was here in this  podunk lil town in illinois. I totally support other people vaccinating their children. Its a personal choice like choosing to go to church, choosing to give your child soda, everyone has a different opinion..their opinions are not wrong they just might not be the same as other parents decisions.













They are only obvious once there is an outbreak.  When they are most contagious is BEFORE there are visible signs. You would have no way of protecting other children from being exposed. It would be to late.






Exactly

Sara - posted on 03/31/2009

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Why is a lot of this anti-vaccination stuff always weaved together with conspiracy theories? It disturbs me how a few people on here seem very ill informed about vaccinations. There are a lot of disreputable sites on the internet that prey on peoples fears about vaccinations. Even Dr. Sears isn't opposed to vaccinations, he just thinks that people need all the information about them and then can make a choice one way or another. I agree with him.

And honestly, losing a baby to SIDS is one of the most painful things that someone can experience. I have good friends that lost their 5 week old daughter to SIDS, and it wasn't because of vaccinations. There are those scare tactics at work again...

http://www.sids.org/news1.html

Sarah - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Amber:





I'd know if my child had measles, mumps, ruebella, diptheria,hepititis chicken pox etc. its not like they are "silent killers" they're kinda obvious. I wouldn't subject someone elses child. Plus I'd love to know the last time anything (besides chicken pox they are harmless for the most part) was here in this  podunk lil town in illinois. I totally support other people vaccinating their children. Its a personal choice like choosing to go to church, choosing to give your child soda, everyone has a different opinion..their opinions are not wrong they just might not be the same as other parents decisions.








They are only obvious once there is an outbreak.  When they are most contagious is BEFORE there are visible signs. You would have no way of protecting other children from being exposed. It would be to late.

Sarah - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Amber:





I'd know if my child had measles, mumps, ruebella, diptheria,hepititis chicken pox etc. its not like they are "silent killers" they're kinda obvious. I wouldn't subject someone elses child. Plus I'd love to know the last time anything (besides chicken pox they are harmless for the most part) was here in this  podunk lil town in illinois. I totally support other people vaccinating their children. Its a personal choice like choosing to go to church, choosing to give your child soda, everyone has a different opinion..their opinions are not wrong they just might not be the same as other parents decisions.








They are only obvious once there is an outbreak.  When they are most contagious is BEFORE there are visible signs. You would have no way of protecting other children from being exposed. It would be to late.

Amber - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Jill:



Quoting Amber:

may i say one more point. ... for the people that say that an unvaccinated child puts their child at risk and other children at risk..Your child is immunized so don't worry about it ...if you had such faith the immunizations would work you wouldn't be worried about an umimmunized child. If my unimmunized child contracted a rare disease that hasnt been in the united states in decades...aka most of the stuff they vaccinate against --gives it to another child...that child wasn't immunized either so its just as much that mom's "fault" as it would be mine. I am against anything that uses aborted fetal tissue or cells. You can now donate your childs umbilical cord for FREE that have the same cells as the aborted baby. I donated all 3 of my childrens cords.






What about the unborn babies and the children who haven't reached the appropriate age? If you are prolife, you should be concerned about the fetuses that are at risk, because of children who didn't receive their vaccines.



 



I'd know if my child had measles, mumps, ruebella, diptheria,hepititis chicken pox etc. its not like they are "silent killers" they're kinda obvious. I wouldn't subject someone elses child. Plus I'd love to know the last time anything (besides chicken pox they are harmless for the most part) was here in this  podunk lil town in illinois. I totally support other people vaccinating their children. Its a personal choice like choosing to go to church, choosing to give your child soda, everyone has a different opinion..their opinions are not wrong they just might not be the same as other parents decisions.





 

Liana - posted on 03/31/2009

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To be honest I was terrified of giving my kids the mmr with all the scare mongering thats gone on and because one of my cousins kids developed autism within a short space of time of having the mmr.  So as  soon as my oldest was born I was researching the subject and he was 2 before I decided that when weighed up against single vaccinations or the illness themselves I decided the mmr was the safest option. 



It is one of the safer vaccinations out there I found that the vacinations they have at 2, 3 and 4 months were actually more dangerous than the mmr yet I hadn't batted an eyelid when the proffesionals told me he was to have them because I'd heard nothing bad about them.



I have 2 boys both have had the mmr and the booster both are in perfect health.  It is a gamble whatever you choose and no one can make the decision for you I suggest you look into in depth and make an informed decision.



As to the chicken pox vaccine I'm guessing you are in america because as far as I'm aware they don't offer it over here in the UK for several reasons both my kids have had chicken pox and it was horrible to see them suffer but it doesn't last long but I'm told it's best if they catch it between the ages of 2 and 8 or it can be dangerous.

Whitney - posted on 03/31/2009

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we all got them when we were little and all turned out fine... why not give it to your child! Just my opinion. and that's how i feel about my son! he got his and now i don't have to worry about him getting measles mumps or rubella! I don't understand why people do this. y don't you get the shots and not have to worry about having your children go into the hospital and spend more then your co-pay to just get the shot.

Veronica - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Sarah:



Quoting Veronica:







I was talking to a friend of mine who has shingles and has to take medication for them and she believes she got them from the vaccine as well.  Her parents made her and her siblings get the chicken pox vaccine as children and she ended up getting shingles as an adult.  I think that is horrible and as much as I was miserable during my bout with chicken pox as a child I would hate to be dealing with shingles recurrently as an adult if that is what the vaccine could cause.












 






Since there have been documented cases of shingles since the 19th century and the chicken pox vaccine was first introduced in 1995, I'm not sure this makes much sense. You can get shingles after you have had chicken pox or the vaccine. Neither one causes shingles.



 



 



I was just saying what my friend told me and probably what her doctor informed her of the cause.  Maybe there is more than one cause to an effect....hmmmm.





 

Sarah - posted on 03/31/2009

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Quoting Veronica:





I was talking to a friend of mine who has shingles and has to take medication for them and she believes she got them from the vaccine as well.  Her parents made her and her siblings get the chicken pox vaccine as children and she ended up getting shingles as an adult.  I think that is horrible and as much as I was miserable during my bout with chicken pox as a child I would hate to be dealing with shingles recurrently as an adult if that is what the vaccine could cause.







 



Since there have been documented cases of shingles since the 19th century and the chicken pox vaccine was first introduced in 1995, I'm not sure this makes much sense. You can get shingles after you have had chicken pox or the vaccine. Neither one causes shingles.

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