Should dads have the right to opt out of fatherhoo

Louise - posted on 06/02/2009 ( 68 moms have responded )

143

52

8

Was just watching Dr. Phil, dads wanting to opt out of being a father.

Dad # 1 got his ex pregnant, and he wasn't give the choice to keep or not keep the child. His ex was on contraceptives, they agreed they're both not ready for children. Now that the baby is born, he's fighting the system because he's forced to be a dad and forced to pay child support.

Dad #2 was told he had a child 2 years after the child is born. He has since gotten married and had 2 other children but only knew about the child 2 years after. Wife of Dad #2 resents the fact she has to pay money for his other child knowing they have 2 kids together. Mom of child wants to get paid to go to the Dr. Phil show, gold digger?

Dad #3 was a sperm donor, but was chased after by the mom of his child. Should he pay child support?

What do you guys think? I've seen my share of dead beat dads, should the courts give them that privilege?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Denikka - posted on 08/01/2011

2,160

5

748

When I found out I was pregnant, the first thing I did was ask my partner if he wanted to opt out (after telling him of course :P)
I don't think it's right that a woman can opt out (by aborting or adopting out) but the man is 100% stuck with the woman's choice. At the time, I told my partner that he was welcome to end it then and there, and take no responsibility and that I would not take him for child support if that was his choice. But also that if he did choose to stick around and see it through that that was it. If he decided to chicken out later, I'd take him for everything I was entitled to, including visitation for the kidlet.
On the same note, we also had the conversation about what would happen if he wanted the child and I did not. I agreed to go through and finish the pregnancy and give up my parental rights at the end of it all if that's what we really agreed on.
We did decide that we both wanted the baby and now we have a handsome toddler son and a beautiful baby daughter.

I thought this was important because of what my mom went through. Before she had me (I'm the oldest), she got pregnant and decided to abort. She had a late abortion, and the baby would have been a boy. She never even told the father that she was pregnant. He found out later through some friends and was crushed. He would have taken full responsibility for the child. He had been told that he couldn't have children, and that may have been his only chance. My mother took that away from him, without even the courtesy of telling him. From what I know of the story, he never did have children of his own.
I could never do that to someone I supposedly loved enough to sleep with.

So yes, I think that dads should have ONE chance to opt out, just like moms do.

?? - posted on 06/07/2009

4,974

0

171

Quoting Louise:

For some women, abortion is not an option due to many reasons.



If abortion is not an option, then that woman should keep her legs shut. She shouldn't be putting herself in the position to get pregnant by a man who doesn't want to be a father. I'm not excusing a man from his responsibility, but if a woman has that stance, she should take responsibility for her own body, life, her childs well being by not having sex with anyone that hasn't expressed that they would be okay having a baby with her. She has no right to expect any man she sleeps with to be on board with her about having a baby.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

68 Comments

View replies by

AMANDA - posted on 08/01/2011

427

38

33

id say dad #3 shouldnt have to step up at all but only if it was a legit donation to a reputible facility not just a pissed off woman if he donated his sperm there should be no responsibility to him.. if the person who chose to use cant take care of the child on their own then they souldnt have had a baby..

as for the other two people if you are adult enough to have sex then no matter what they should be prepared to take care of any children that come out of that.. never trust a woman who says shes using contraceptive as not all women are truthful and some are just "gold diggers" they need to be responsible and do everything they can to prevent it..

Tina - posted on 08/01/2011

316

41

32

Dads # 1 & 2, DONT HAVE SEX UNLESS YOU ARE READY FOR THE CONSEQUENCES!!! The mom of #2 should have told him straight away that she was pregnant with his kid. Sounds like she is just after money but as well as it is wrong to not give the father knowledge at the get go he still needs to pay. As for dad #3 no he should not. She chose to be a single mom and thats a choice she needs to live with.

Courtney - posted on 06/07/2009

147

18

11

Well, Dad #3 TOTALLY shouldn't have to pay!! It is like a woman who donated her eggs having to pay for a child later in life...they donated sperm/eggs to HELP someone else out that wasn't able to have children...or whatever reason. If they wanted the help to have kids and then later couldn't support them, then the burden is theirs!! As far as Dad's #1 and #2 are concerned, I think that dad #1 should pay...even though a woman is on a contraceptive..SHE CAN STILL GET PREGNANT!!!! I was on Ortho and took it RELIGIOUSLY and got pregnant with my daughter; we were shocked, but we handled it and we are so thankful to have her!! If he is grown enough to have sex, then he is grown enough to *possibly* deal with the consiquences. Dad #2 I feel for, but he still is in the same boat as dad #1...he had sex, a child is a possible outcome of sex...ergo, he should be responsible for what he was a part of.



I mean, all those cases suck and they aren't true dead beat dads (my dad was ordered to pay child support of $75 a MONTH and he never did...that's a dead beat!!) but they are still needing to be responsible for their actions. I do think that the guy should have some right about having the child or an abortion. Maybe he can't mandate that she get an abortion, but if he feels strongly about it, have him sign over his parental rights to her when she is pregnant...I think that way she can't get money from him if it is HER that wants the baby. And dad #2...I feel for!! If my hubby told me that he had a child from a previous relationship and we had to support that one plus our 2, I would freak out!! I would try to understand, but I would still feel like I (and MY children) were being short changed. But, as a mother, I would also want him to take responsiblity and take care of his other child and be in his other child's life too. This was a tough one!!

Crystal - posted on 06/07/2009

62

33

10

Quoting Libby:

I saw a few minutes of the show and recorded it b/c we had to leave, I haven't watched the rest yet but I already have a feeling on this. I felt dad #1's mom had a valid point that a woman can opt out of being a mom but a dad can't! But you know what...some dad's do opt out parenthood anyway, and they do it illegally by not paying child support. They also don't participate in the child's life. Sure there are times that the system goes after these dads but what really gets resolved? I know dads that WANT a relationship with their child and the mom's who withhold it because they have the "power". Sounds like we give the moms too many rights in this world. Don't get me wrong, as a mother I don't understand how a parent (whether mother or father) could not want their child. But there are parents how there that do want babies and are willing to adopt. A mother can give her baby up for adoption and in most cases without a father's consent. But a father can't give up anything because...why?...he had sex! It seriously sounds like a double standard.


i seen this one twicw, but missed the last guy..i agree with you

Louise - posted on 06/06/2009

143

52

8

For some women, abortion is not an option due to many reasons. But there are different cases, I wish both parents were mature enough to talk about it rather than use the child support system for vengeance. But then again, there are parents, who at first, want the child. They get married, have kids, then disappear into thin air because they just don't want it anymore. It wasn't what they expected it to be. There are parents who dropped off their 17 year old kid at a safe haven hospital because they don't want the kid anymore. The system can be abused, no doubt. But then again, that's the best way they know how to protect kids from their parent's stupidity.

Christina - posted on 06/06/2009

11

25

0

And i completely agree with Laci. I wish more women were like that. Instead of the women who do have one night stands get pregnant and have the baby even though the man didn't want her to and then ask for child support two years later after the man has a wife and a kid of his own.

Christina - posted on 06/06/2009

11

25

0

I think the dad should be able to opt out. If the mother can opt out and have an abortion, why can't the dad? Father's have no say in determining if they want the child or not. A woman has a choice either way. So how is it fair. If a man has a one night stand with a woman and says he doesn't want to have the baby, but the woman decides to, then that was her decision. Where does a man have a say in any of this?

?? - posted on 06/06/2009

4,974

0

171

That is awesome. Her kids are very lucky. I do know quite a few seperated parents that are both very good parents and they work together to make their babies life the best it possibly can be.

Everytime I hear a girl say she doesn't care if she gets pregnant, the dad will have to pay anyways I want to punch her in the face. I think it's disgusting. I also know a few guys who have the mind frame that if they get a girl knocked up he'll just sign over rights and that will be that - there's no arguing with them.

But every situation is different... the majority of people I know who are "fighting" for child support are fighting to get EVERYTHING the dad has because she doesn't want to do anything for herself and figures because he is the father it is his responsibility to not just take care of baby but make sure she has everything she wants too.

I know one girl here who hands her kid off to her mom every morning and goes downtown to sell drugs and do drugs and she works part time for a friend while she's on maternity leave and she bitches and complains about how the dad doesn't want to pay child support. I've seen HIM with the kid more than I've seen HER with the kid and even though he doesn't work at a job that makes a lot of money, he still tries his hardest to be in his daughters life... I don't think he should have to pay child support. But because she has "custody" of the girl, he's the one who is being 'forced' to pay child support.

Every situation is different really. But I do think moms need to be more responsible about who they are choosing as the father of their babies and when they make a bad choice or don't give the man a choice they have to take responsibily for THAT choice and not EXPECT a man to jump on board.

Becca - posted on 06/06/2009

30

40

1



I was speaking in regards to the people I mentioned - the women who lie, the women who don't even tell the dad that she's pregnant, the women who go around sleeping around taking no precautions just because ah well if she gets pregnant - he'll have to support the kid anyways. And I know A LOT of girls who have that exact mind-frame.





That's a jacked up frame of mind! How the hell are people being raised to be like that? Or why would they turn out that way? Makes me sad for society. I don't know how most families do it, but my friend I spoke of now has a boyfriend who has 2 other children from  a previous marriage, and he gets child support from his ex-wife. But they share parenting responsibilities evenly and no one child is any more priveledged than the other two. I have alot of respect for her. She's only 20 and she's the best mom I know. Makes me proud to call her my  friend :o)

?? - posted on 06/06/2009

4,974

0

171

Becca, I feel for the girl you speak of. I said that I think every situation is different. In that case, he obviously should be held responsible for his child since he was given the choice. Her having to work 12-15 hour days isn't his problem - it's not his responsibility to take care of mom but to take care of baby. Another thing that the whole child support system isn't able to really grasp, I don't think. Moms have to be able to take care of themselves and shouldn't rely on child support. Each situation is different though.

I was speaking in regards to the people I mentioned - the women who lie, the women who don't even tell the dad that she's pregnant, the women who go around sleeping around taking no precautions just because ah well if she gets pregnant - he'll have to support the kid anyways. And I know A LOT of girls who have that exact mind-frame.

I do have a question for moms who have babies with fathers who aren't there..... what do you tell your kids? Daddy sends money or even is forced to send money but doesn't want to see them. If you remarry - if the child support gives that kid an opportunity, do the other kids in the new marriage get the same opportunities but only paid for by that daddy? If you have to fight for child support do you just not tell your kids where the extra money comes from so that they can have those opportunities? What do you say when the kid asks where's daddy? And if you have remarried, and just don't tell the kiddo that they have a different dad, when they get older and it comes out, then what do you tell your kids?

[deleted account]

Perhaps those teens in your parenting class haven't run out because they can't drive away?

But the point is that a woman is not forced to deal with the consequences of her actions. She can have an abortion or give up the baby. But men can always be held responsible. I agree completely that when a guy decides to have sex, he should be ready to deal with the consequences. But maybe we should be putting some on the responsibility on the girls as well. Maybe she should be be thinking about whether she should take the risk of getting pregnant by a guy with no job and no interest in children. I don't think the current system is equitable for the adults involved. But, like I said in my previous post, I can't think of a better system that would still protect the child involved.

Becca - posted on 06/06/2009

30

40

1



Quoting Jodi:



 



Women can go around gettin pregnant left right and center cause they can have abortions but a man, a man only gets one chance. One time. And no matter what he wants, it doesn't matter because the woman gets to make the decisions after that point. Bull, bull, bull.






Obviously men need to be careful, but some situations - it's just redonkulous how women don't take any precaution - the man puts on the condom and the woman gets pregnant - she chooses for him to have the baby even though HE put on the condom - and cause she made the choice to have the baby she expects the man to pay and pay and pay while she goes on living her merry lil life and he busts his ass day in and day out so he can pay for that baby and live too.





My best friend got pregnant 3 years ago with the guy she was dating at the time. When she found out she was pregnant she GAVE HIM THE OPTION of abortion or keeping the child, even though her family would've disowned her for abortion. They discussed it. They chose to keep it. They took precautions and were only teenagers but they understood the risks. (I am of course not speaking to your particular situation, but to the ones you speak about above.) They broke up shortly after this because he was cheating on her the entire time with ANOTHER girl who was ALSO pregnant at the time with his child. My friend's "merry lil life" ever since consists of being a single mom and working 12-15 hours EVERY DAY, 6 DAYS A WEEK. And guess what the dad does? Sits on HIS ass all day. So how is it fair that she hardly gets to see her son because she has to work so much, and he is carefree, when the decision was THEIRS?



And I agree more than completely, why shouldn't tax payers have an option to OPT OUT on supporting other people's children if their freakin parents are able to opt out???? I understand that the state is there to help, I just don't think that either parent should be allowed out of responsibilities, financial or otherwise, unless the remaining parent is self-sufficient. If you make a baby, it's your responsibility. Part of life is dealing with the consequences of your actions.



I'm still amazed at the couple in my parenting class who are not old enough to drive, but neither of them has run away.

Becca - posted on 06/06/2009

30

40

1



Quoting Jodi:



 



Women can go around gettin pregnant left right and center cause they can have abortions but a man, a man only gets one chance. One time. And no matter what he wants, it doesn't matter because the woman gets to make the decisions after that point. Bull, bull, bull.






Obviously men need to be careful, but some situations - it's just redonkulous how women don't take any precaution - the man puts on the condom and the woman gets pregnant - she chooses for him to have the baby even though HE put on the condom - and cause she made the choice to have the baby she expects the man to pay and pay and pay while she goes on living her merry lil life and he busts his ass day in and day out so he can pay for that baby and live too.





My best friend got pregnant 3 years ago with the guy she was dating at the time. When she found out she was pregnant she GAVE HIM THE OPTION of abortion or keeping the child, even though her family would've disowned her for abortion. They discussed it. They chose to keep it. They took precautions and were only teenagers but they understood the risks. (I am of course not speaking to your particular situation, but to the ones you speak about above.) They broke up shortly after this because he was cheating on her the entire time with ANOTHER girl who was ALSO pregnant at the time with his child. My friend's "merry lil life" ever since consists of being a single mom and working 12-15 hours EVERY DAY, 6 DAYS A WEEK. And guess what the dad does? Sits on HIS ass all day. So how is it fair that she hardly gets to see her son because she has to work so much, and he is carefree, when the decision was THEIRS?



And I agree more than completely, why shouldn't tax payers have an option to OPT OUT on supporting other people's children if their freakin parents are able to opt out???? I understand that the state is there to help, I just don't think that either parent should be allowed out of responsibilities, financial or otherwise, unless the remaining parent is self-sufficient. If you make a baby, it's your responsibility. Part of life is dealing with the consequences of your actions.



I'm still amazed at the couple in my parenting class who are not old enough to drive, but neither of them has run away.

?? - posted on 06/06/2009

4,974

0

171

Quoting Jamie:



In the end it still goes back to, if the father, or mother, didnt want kids they should have sex. So Father had a choice he made his choice to take the chance of getting her pregnant, at that point he gives up any other choice whether the baby is born or not.  If he didnt want kids he shouldnt have had sex.






I'm sorry but I don't see that. Women get 2 chances men only get 1?



Woman makes choice to have sex. Man makes choice to have sex.



Woman gets pregnant. Woman makes choice to be mom.



Dad has no choice - he has to do what woman says.



B*ll - F*ck*n - Sh*t.



 



If a woman gets 2 chances to make that decision then so does a man.



Women can go around gettin pregnant left right and center cause they can have abortions but a man, a man only gets one chance. One time. And no matter what he wants, it doesn't matter because the woman gets to make the decisions after that point. Bull, bull, bull.



Obviously men need to be careful, but some situations - it's just redonkulous how women don't take any precaution - the man puts on the condom and the woman gets pregnant - she chooses for him to have the baby even though HE put on the condom - and cause she made the choice to have the baby she expects the man to pay and pay and pay while she goes on living her merry lil life and he busts his ass day in and day out so he can pay for that baby and live too.



Uncivil, mean, vindictive, vengeful, selfish, childish, immature - all words that come to my mind when it comes to most of the moms that >I< know that are "fighting for child support."

?? - posted on 06/06/2009

4,974

0

171

Quoting Jamie:



In the end it still goes back to, if the father, or mother, didnt want kids they should have sex. So Father had a choice he made his choice to take the chance of getting her pregnant, at that point he gives up any other choice whether the baby is born or not.  If he didnt want kids he shouldnt have had sex.






I'm sorry but I don't see that. Women get 2 chances men only get 1?



Woman makes choice to have sex. Man makes choice to have sex.



Woman gets pregnant. Woman makes choice to be mom.



Dad has no choice - he has to do what woman says.



B*ll - F*ck*n - Sh*t.



 



If a woman gets 2 chances to make that decision then so does a man.



Women can go around gettin pregnant left right and center cause they can have abortions but a man, a man only gets one chance. One time. And no matter what he wants, it doesn't matter because the woman gets to make the decisions after that point. Bull, bull, bull.



Obviously men need to be careful, but some situations - it's just redonkulous how women don't take any precaution - the man puts on the condom and the woman gets pregnant - she chooses for him to have the baby even though HE put on the condom - and cause she made the choice to have the baby she expects the man to pay and pay and pay while she goes on living her merry lil life and he busts his ass day in and day out so he can pay for that baby and live too.



Uncivil, mean, vindictive, vengeful, selfish, childish, immature - all words that come to my mind when it comes to most of the moms that >I< know that are "fighting for child support."

Jamie - posted on 06/05/2009

1,488

41

234

Quoting Sarah:

In contrast to most of you, I totally see where the fathers on this show are coming from. Father #1 did not want a child, his child's mother knew this, where are his rights? Yes I realize that it is about the child and the child should come first, but if a women gets pregnant she gets to make the decision ALONE if she wants to have an abortion or have the baby. I realize that it is the women's body, but how is it right for her to decide to have or not have an abortion when the man has no say? If the man wants to keep the child and she doesn't too bad. If she wants to keep the child and he doesn't, again too bad for him, she wins and he is now responsible? That doesn't seem logical to me.
Father #2 and his wife didn't know about the child for TWO years. I think that the woman should be required to inform the father immediately. I mean really, we are talking about the best interest of the child...I think it is in the best interest of the child that they are given a chance to have a relationship with their father from day one. I can understand how this father and his wife don't really want much to do with the child now. Yes, the child is his flesh and blood, but that only goes far...you are now talking about a toddler that the dad had no chance to bond with or get to know, the child is essentially a stranger.
Personally I don't see father #3 as any different from father #1. Here is another man who did not want to have a child. Yes she and him considered him just a sperm donor, but since he wasn't an anonymous donor it is similiar to the first case...the mother wants a child the father doesn't. Personally I am not sure that any of the men from this show should be responsible.

I also agree with Laci, I would rather raise my child alone then with a father who didn't want him. I wouldn't want the only thing my child ever recieved from his "father" to be money. I think it is in the best interest of the child to just have a mother than to have a "father" who is never around but sends a check. Money does NOT buy happiness or love.
I do understand the sentiment of if you aren't willing to accept the consequences don't have sex, but i just think that the consequences should be decided equally not in obvious bias of the mother as our society does.



In the end it still goes back to, if the father, or mother, didnt want kids they should have sex. So Father had a choice he made his choice to take the chance of getting her pregnant, at that point he gives up any other choice whether the baby is born or not.  If he didnt want kids he shouldnt have had sex.



 



And its in the best interestof the child. Doesnt that child deserve to have the support of 2 parents?  A mother working on minimum wage cant afford to take care of  baby on her own. So now everyone else is supposed to do it? Again I ask how this is far? I dont get to OPT out of taxes that pay for these welfare programs. I didnt get to decided if they had sex. So how is it fair I now have to help support thier child because the mother thinks the dad should get a choice to OPT out?  No one can seem to answer that question. Why should I have to support someones kid because they want to let daddy out of his obligation as a parent.

Jamie - posted on 06/05/2009

1,488

41

234

Quoting Sarah:

In contrast to most of you, I totally see where the fathers on this show are coming from. Father #1 did not want a child, his child's mother knew this, where are his rights? Yes I realize that it is about the child and the child should come first, but if a women gets pregnant she gets to make the decision ALONE if she wants to have an abortion or have the baby. I realize that it is the women's body, but how is it right for her to decide to have or not have an abortion when the man has no say? If the man wants to keep the child and she doesn't too bad. If she wants to keep the child and he doesn't, again too bad for him, she wins and he is now responsible? That doesn't seem logical to me.
Father #2 and his wife didn't know about the child for TWO years. I think that the woman should be required to inform the father immediately. I mean really, we are talking about the best interest of the child...I think it is in the best interest of the child that they are given a chance to have a relationship with their father from day one. I can understand how this father and his wife don't really want much to do with the child now. Yes, the child is his flesh and blood, but that only goes far...you are now talking about a toddler that the dad had no chance to bond with or get to know, the child is essentially a stranger.
Personally I don't see father #3 as any different from father #1. Here is another man who did not want to have a child. Yes she and him considered him just a sperm donor, but since he wasn't an anonymous donor it is similiar to the first case...the mother wants a child the father doesn't. Personally I am not sure that any of the men from this show should be responsible.

I also agree with Laci, I would rather raise my child alone then with a father who didn't want him. I wouldn't want the only thing my child ever recieved from his "father" to be money. I think it is in the best interest of the child to just have a mother than to have a "father" who is never around but sends a check. Money does NOT buy happiness or love.
I do understand the sentiment of if you aren't willing to accept the consequences don't have sex, but i just think that the consequences should be decided equally not in obvious bias of the mother as our society does.



In the end it still goes back to, if the father, or mother, didnt want kids they should have sex. So Father had a choice he made his choice to take the chance of getting her pregnant, at that point he gives up any other choice whether the baby is born or not.  If he didnt want kids he shouldnt have had sex.



 



And its in the best interestof the child. Doesnt that child deserve to have the support of 2 parents?  A mother working on minimum wage cant afford to take care of  baby on her own. So now everyone else is supposed to do it? Again I ask how this is far? I dont get to OPT out of taxes that pay for these welfare programs. I didnt get to decided if they had sex. So how is it fair I now have to help support thier child because the mother thinks the dad should get a choice to OPT out?  No one can seem to answer that question. Why should I have to support someones kid because they want to let daddy out of his obligation as a parent.

Jamie - posted on 06/05/2009

1,488

41

234

Quoting Sarah:

In contrast to most of you, I totally see where the fathers on this show are coming from. Father #1 did not want a child, his child's mother knew this, where are his rights? Yes I realize that it is about the child and the child should come first, but if a women gets pregnant she gets to make the decision ALONE if she wants to have an abortion or have the baby. I realize that it is the women's body, but how is it right for her to decide to have or not have an abortion when the man has no say? If the man wants to keep the child and she doesn't too bad. If she wants to keep the child and he doesn't, again too bad for him, she wins and he is now responsible? That doesn't seem logical to me.
Father #2 and his wife didn't know about the child for TWO years. I think that the woman should be required to inform the father immediately. I mean really, we are talking about the best interest of the child...I think it is in the best interest of the child that they are given a chance to have a relationship with their father from day one. I can understand how this father and his wife don't really want much to do with the child now. Yes, the child is his flesh and blood, but that only goes far...you are now talking about a toddler that the dad had no chance to bond with or get to know, the child is essentially a stranger.
Personally I don't see father #3 as any different from father #1. Here is another man who did not want to have a child. Yes she and him considered him just a sperm donor, but since he wasn't an anonymous donor it is similiar to the first case...the mother wants a child the father doesn't. Personally I am not sure that any of the men from this show should be responsible.

I also agree with Laci, I would rather raise my child alone then with a father who didn't want him. I wouldn't want the only thing my child ever recieved from his "father" to be money. I think it is in the best interest of the child to just have a mother than to have a "father" who is never around but sends a check. Money does NOT buy happiness or love.
I do understand the sentiment of if you aren't willing to accept the consequences don't have sex, but i just think that the consequences should be decided equally not in obvious bias of the mother as our society does.



In the end it still goes back to, if the father, or mother, didnt want kids they should have sex. So Father had a choice he made his choice to take the chance of getting her pregnant, at that point he gives up any other choice whether the baby is born or not.  If he didnt want kids he shouldnt have had sex.



 



And its in the best interestof the child. Doesnt that child deserve to have the support of 2 parents?  A mother working on minimum wage cant afford to take care of  baby on her own. So now everyone else is supposed to do it? Again I ask how this is far? I dont get to OPT out of taxes that pay for these welfare programs. I didnt get to decided if they had sex. So how is it fair I now have to help support thier child because the mother thinks the dad should get a choice to OPT out?  No one can seem to answer that question. Why should I have to support someones kid because they want to let daddy out of his obligation as a parent.

?? - posted on 06/05/2009

4,974

0

171

I think it completely depends on the situation.



I was told by 3 specialists a neurologist and a panel of doctors that I'd never be able to have a baby, and I was on the pill too. So you can imagine the surprise I got when I found out I was pregnant. I told his daddy who had told me he never wanted to have kids and he asked me if I would be willing to have an abortion - I said no freakin way - I wouldn't give up a baby knowing I may never be able to have another one. And as soon as I said that I told him it was up to him to decide whether he wanted to have a baby. It was ALL in or ALL out. He chose all in, and we have a beautiful son and a wonderful relationship. But in my situation I was not going to hold him responsible for something neither of us ever in our wildest dreams could have possibly thought would happen.



I really don't mean to be rude or mean to any moms here.... but I don't understand how any woman can eliminate a mans choice to have a baby by deciding to have the baby or not have the baby and then expect him to jump on board with whatever she decided as if it's no big deal. Child's interests or not - you're starting off on the wrong foot for any kind of equal//respectful relationship, intimate or not, if you make the choice and eliminate his choice.



I know more men out there who are forced to pay child support to a child they WANT to see but the mother is a complete c*nt and won't let him see them but hold the child as a ransom so to speak to get more money from their dad than I see men who just don't want to pay child support. I see more men who seriously can not live on their wage when the majority of their pay goes to child support. Some women need to back up, and look at themselves before they go after daddy.



As for women who wait to tell daddy that they have a baby, piss off. When the going gets tough the tough gets going - they don't run off and find someone else to do it for them. If things are going fine for however many years and then things get hard that's when they find daddy. Please. Get over it. That man has moved on, you were doing fine.. and if you weren't doing fine then what the hell were you doing? Either way, if you wait 2 years or more you wasted time and need to grow up yourself before you expect any man to grow up and "take responsibility."



Sperm donors... I don't even know what to say. A woman who just wants a baby, and she gets some spermies from a dude cause she knows he has good genes - I doubt any man would go into that agreement if he had any idea that that woman would turn around and say "nowwwwwwww pay for the baby!" Women need to take responsibilty for THEIR decisions.



Anyways, each situation is different. All I know is that men get a bad rap when it comes to fatherhood. Women need to have the same bad rap. All the cases of child support that I know of personally - it's the women that are being freakin stupid and then men who WANT to be with their kids - but they need to be able to live too.



In my situation - if my partner had said he didn't want to be there, that would have been that. I removed his options when it came to having a baby, the only DECENT and respectful and human thing to do was give him the option to be there or not. He says pretty much everyday he couldn't imagine his life without our son now. But if he didn't want to be there - that would have been fine. I wouldn't have told him he had to pay for the child - a child he told me he never wanted in the first place - how fair or right would that be, he has rights too, and every man should have the right as much as a woman has the right to choose to be a mom or not be a mom.



In fact, I think moms should be held even more accountable and responsible than men. Women LIE to get pregnant and then expect the man to give her 3/4 of his pay cheque. I've heard of women who get pregnant, give the child up for adoption AND THEN tell the father that they have a baby.



It goes either way, and it depends on the situation. Life isn't about money to me. If you want it bad enough you'll find away to get it, and depending on or expecting a child support cheque to get it is incredibly foolish.

Becca - posted on 06/05/2009

30

40

1

The male (in any case) takes the risk of becoming a parent when he decides to have intercourse, just as any female does. Sex was made pleasurable, but it was not made for pleasure. It was made for procreation. That's why you might get pregnant from it. As for paying for mistakes, that's a little thing we call life. You are only splitting hairs when you say criminal offenses are different. Because criminal offenses is not the issue, but paying for mistakes. A criminal offense is a mistake you make, THAT YOU MUST PAY FOR. Just because you don't want to grow up, well, that's tough. If you're not adult enough to care for a child, keep it in your pants. My husband and I just started parenting classes and there is a couple there who aren't yet of legal driving age (16). But I don't see him running away.

[deleted account]

I think there's a lot of problems currently in US courts on the issue of child support vs giving up parental rights. Taking the sperm donor situation for example (since I think that one has the best case), there have been lots of cases of sperm donors being forced to pay child support:

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longis...,0,4274952.story

In those cases, the sperm donor was a friend, not even in a relationship with the mom. So it seems like giving up parental rights is pretty tough. You know, this issue on the father's responsibility was never discussed in my high school health class. Something like 10% of my class had kids before graduation - wonder if it would have been less if people had been thinking about the financial consequences.

Becca - posted on 06/05/2009

30

40

1

Dad #3 no, because it was the mother's choice to be a single parent. THAT'S a gold digger.

Dad #2 yes, screw his wife. I'm sorry but when you have sex you take the risk of being a parent, no matter how careful you are. The mom shouldn't get paid to go on the show, but she should recieve child support and the dad should recieve parental rights if the courts deem necessary. One good question would be why she waited 2 years. What did she do for money before now?

Dad #1, it's not his choice. He made the choice when he decided to have sex. People on contraceptives are told they are 99% effective WHEN USED CORRECTLY. Few people actually use them entirely correctly, and even when they do 99% is not 100%.

If dad #1 or #2 would like to give up parental rights, most courts wouldn't make them pay would they?

Sarah - posted on 06/05/2009

197

14

16

In contrast to most of you, I totally see where the fathers on this show are coming from. Father #1 did not want a child, his child's mother knew this, where are his rights? Yes I realize that it is about the child and the child should come first, but if a women gets pregnant she gets to make the decision ALONE if she wants to have an abortion or have the baby. I realize that it is the women's body, but how is it right for her to decide to have or not have an abortion when the man has no say? If the man wants to keep the child and she doesn't too bad. If she wants to keep the child and he doesn't, again too bad for him, she wins and he is now responsible? That doesn't seem logical to me.

Father #2 and his wife didn't know about the child for TWO years. I think that the woman should be required to inform the father immediately. I mean really, we are talking about the best interest of the child...I think it is in the best interest of the child that they are given a chance to have a relationship with their father from day one. I can understand how this father and his wife don't really want much to do with the child now. Yes, the child is his flesh and blood, but that only goes far...you are now talking about a toddler that the dad had no chance to bond with or get to know, the child is essentially a stranger.

Personally I don't see father #3 as any different from father #1. Here is another man who did not want to have a child. Yes she and him considered him just a sperm donor, but since he wasn't an anonymous donor it is similiar to the first case...the mother wants a child the father doesn't. Personally I am not sure that any of the men from this show should be responsible.



I also agree with Laci, I would rather raise my child alone then with a father who didn't want him. I wouldn't want the only thing my child ever recieved from his "father" to be money. I think it is in the best interest of the child to just have a mother than to have a "father" who is never around but sends a check. Money does NOT buy happiness or love.

I do understand the sentiment of if you aren't willing to accept the consequences don't have sex, but i just think that the consequences should be decided equally not in obvious bias of the mother as our society does.

[deleted account]

Certainly in some US states (elsewhere, I have no idea) the father can object to adoption, but he can't say "I don't have the resources to raise a child, so the baby should go up for adoption." Only the mother can choose adoption, and basically opt out of her responsibility to the child. But I do agree with you that people shouldn't be having sex if they aren't prepared to deal with the consequences - I just don't see that happening any time soon.

Jamie - posted on 06/05/2009

1,488

41

234

Actually Jenifer if a mother chooses to put a child up for adoptiong the father has the ablity to object to the child being put up. There is a good answer. Dont have sex until you want to have children. There are plenty of other ways to be intimate that dont require intercourse. And if people would do this then there would never be any "accidents". Which I still stand by there are no accidents and hate that excuse.

[deleted account]

When I saw the show, I actually had a bit of sympathy for the dads. Really, the issue is that the mother gets to unilaterally decide if she wants to terminate the pregnancy, place the baby for adoption, or take responsibility herself (thus making the dad financially responsible as well). The guy has no role in which of the three routes she chooses. But in the end, I can't see a way to protect the child involved if the father can opt out at will. I guess I prefer that the system be fair to the child, than to people who don't fully consider the consequences of their actions.

But maybe if partners could agree on the opt out before they find themselves expecting, that'd be an okay compromise. What better way to kill the romantic mood than to pull out a document for your partner to sign waiving your responsibility toward child support - like with a sperm donor. Of course, I know that where I live, moms have gone after the sperm donors from donor clinics to get child support - and they've won. Seems to me there's really no good answer, only a less bad one.

Megan - posted on 06/05/2009

359

5

20

with the exception of #3... those men had sex with women and thereby should have been aware of the consequences. I feel bad for the second mom in mom #2... but it is still the dad's obligation to help support his other baby...

Jamie - posted on 06/05/2009

1,488

41

234

SO if dad walked out today, you would be able to do it alone, no help. because right now you arent supporting your child at all, your boyfriend is. So if he left you would have no food, no shelter and you think in this economy you can find a job in a day? How will you pay for daycare? How will you pay for a roof over your head? And you think you can do all this with out govt assistance. What about health care? I bet in that situation you would be asking for help. So rather then tell that dad to support his child you would let your child starve because you think you can do it alone. There is a difference between single moms and single parents. I hope for your childs sake and frankly my own, that you and your bf never break up.

LaCi - posted on 06/05/2009

3,361

3

171

you obviously didn't read what I had said, because I have a child and am fully capable of taking care of my child MYSELF. I am a stay at home mother, in school with a wonderful boyfriend who is doing his job as well. But as I said before, i am fully capable of going back to work, finishing school and raising my child with or without him. Its been done by millions of single moms. I have nothing against mothers who end up divorced and receive child support, the problem is mothers who get knocked up by guys who they know dont want to be fathers, you should have to give up your salary because some girl you banged lied about her birth control, or a condom failed. Its absolutely ridiculous to force a person into that kind of responsibility knowing before hand they dont want it!

Jamie - posted on 06/05/2009

1,488

41

234

Amie is the US its the same way. If a mother files for assistance and the father isnt paying support they will go after him. Ive heard of them garnishing wages and taking tax returns for deadbeat dads.



Laci...instead of having sex for please I think you should try sex toys. there are other ways that wont result in a baby that the rest of us could possibly have to support. So until both of you are ready to have children please keep his penis out of your vagina.

Jamie - posted on 06/05/2009

1,488

41

234

Laci, so since to you want to let the father opt out of care, and if you hve to go on state assistance, now I have to pay for your child. Please tell me how thats fair. I didnt have sex with you, I didnt get to decide if you had a child. So now if you go on state assistance why should i have to help you? Thats why there are so many people abusing welfare. because to me thats abuse. This child has 2 parents, you didnt have sex with yourself to get pregnant, so those 2 parents should be supporting that child. I think you are sayng this now because you are still with your boyfriend and you dont think he will opt out. and I hope you are never in the situation where he does, be cause no offense if you split he probably will.

LaCi - posted on 06/05/2009

3,361

3

171

and I maintain that when a man is informed a woman is pregnant there should be a form with an opt out or accept fatherhood line, he picks the one to sign, problem solved. You know where he stands and you know what youre in for.

LaCi - posted on 06/05/2009

3,361

3

171

you're talking about criminal offenses, and that is a reasonable punishment for a crime. cruel and unusual punishment is entirely different. Like putting someone in prison for 30 years for stealing a pack of gum.

Louise - posted on 06/05/2009

143

52

8

@amie, i think they do the same here.

@laci, a lot of people pay for their mistakes, for years, maybe forever. like sexual predators, they're forever in the registry. for people who have bad credit scores, they can't buy houses. etc... but i do no see why it is cruel to support a child. i support other people's children, and feel like i'm a better person because of it.

Amie - posted on 06/05/2009

6,596

20

408

Laci.. taking care of a child you created is cruel and unusual punishment? Nice... Teenagers I give some leniency to because they are kids having babies. Not a nice term and I don't like it but it is true. For an adult who knows fully and completely what might happen, what a cop out. I'd smack my kids father if he tried something like that... oh wait I did... got charged with assault too. He pays his support now even though he doesn't see the kids anymore.

Amie - posted on 06/05/2009

6,596

20

408

Oh I just wanted to add something too. In Canada if you do end up on assistance and the father isn't paying support. They will make you go after him to get it. I don't know how it works in the states but I do know they do it here.

LaCi - posted on 06/05/2009

3,361

3

171

people shouldn't pay for their mistakes for 18-22 years when they never wanted to be involved. thats cruel and unusual punishment.

Louise - posted on 06/05/2009

143

52

8

@laci, yes you're right, we can survive. but i'd rather have my child live life than just surviving it. but i guess, we disagree on the importance of child support to a child. it is quite important to a lot of women.

even if there's foodstamps, welfare, those are not free. it comes from taxes, and why will the government or other tax payers pay for those when they can get it from the person who actually made the baby. i guess i'm for accountability and personal responsibility. daddies should be accountable.

LaCi - posted on 06/05/2009

3,361

3

171

if the father signs an opt out form, I guess thats left on you. Fortunately when we end up crippled we end up disability, food stamps, etc and will manage to provide somehow. Its survival, and people do it on their own. Im not saying men should be able to walk away 10 years later. But if you tell a man you're pregnant and he signs some kind of opt out form you are the one who wanted the child, you are the one who had the child and he made it clear in the beginning he didnt want any part of it.

Louise - posted on 06/05/2009

143

52

8

@laci, every woman in the world is not lucky as you are. but the courts are here to protect the rights of the child. what if somethings happens to you, god forbid, and you can't take care of the child. if you can't get child support from the other parent, then the child suffers. i believe the courts are right in making parents, both father and mother, pay child support.

Amie - posted on 06/05/2009

6,596

20

408

Quoting LaCi:

I am fully capable of raising my child without forcing and sort of assistance from a man. if my boyfriend didn't want a child, and told me he didnt want a child, why should he be responsible for taking care of a child that he never wanted to begin with?

We had sex for pleasure, not for babies, the baby just happened to occur and we decided as a couple to not terminate the pregnancy. If he didn't want me to have the child, and i insisted on having it, why is he held responsible? Accidents happen, birth control fails, and reproduction is not the reason I have ever had sex. It was ultimately my decision to have it, and I will continue to take responsibility for my decision.


Laci no one is saying mom's aren't capable of raising their children alone. Some are but that's a whole other can of worms.



He should be held responsible because he's an adult. It doesn't matter that it was an accident, my first was too, you think I shouldn't be collecting child support from her father for her? Her brother was planned, should I only get support for him because we chose at that time get pregnant?



My hubby and I can fully take care of my first two and our last two but it doesn't absolve their father of his responsibilities. Everyone knows that no matter the precautions you can get pregnant, just like you can get an STD.  If you are not prepared to handle any situation that could arise from that ... as I said in my last post.... don't have sex. Yes it is pleasurable but more people should think of all the consequences of their actions before doing something, then we might not have all these issues with dead beat parents.

LaCi - posted on 06/05/2009

3,361

3

171

I am fully capable of raising my child without forcing and sort of assistance from a man. if my boyfriend didn't want a child, and told me he didnt want a child, why should he be responsible for taking care of a child that he never wanted to begin with?

We had sex for pleasure, not for babies, the baby just happened to occur and we decided as a couple to not terminate the pregnancy. If he didn't want me to have the child, and i insisted on having it, why is he held responsible? Accidents happen, birth control fails, and reproduction is not the reason I have ever had sex. It was ultimately my decision to have it, and I will continue to take responsibility for my decision.

Charlie - posted on 06/05/2009

11,203

111

401

Quoting Jamie:



Quoting LaCi:




Quoting Jamie:

Laci, I understand where you are coming from. But dont you think your child should be given every chance possible? Wouldnt it be better for your child for you not to have to struggle to support him/her? Doesnt your child deserve to have the support of 2 parents? The 2 parents who conceived her and the 2 parents as you atested, agreed to have her?







No, I don't think its important to my child. Why would I want someone in my childs life who doesn't want to be there? There is nothing good that can arise from forcing someone to be in a childs life. Its much better to surround the child with people who DO want to be there, who will make the child feel appreciated and loved, rather than people who are only there for legal reasons










I didnt mean force them to be there physically I mean financially. I know my daughter has been given many opputinuties because her dad pays childsupport, even though he hasnt seen her in 2 yrs. Im by no means saying a father has to be a father, we all know most dont. But I think its important for them to suppor thier children financially. I make good money and so does my current husband, but my daughter has been able to do dance lessons because of childsupport. Something I wouldnt be able to afford otherwise. So i feel like I would be cheating her by not holding her father accountable.





i completly agree with both Jamie and laci , if the father hasnt got the balls to stick around he better damn well help out financilly !! its a small price to pay for leaving their flesh and blood behind , sperm donors should not be held accountable but apparently this guy didnt go through a sperm bank , well thats his bad judgement for not doing things properly .

Tara - posted on 06/05/2009

7

5

1

I agree with Lindsey Lebsack.... If the father doesn't want anything to do with his child then he is a dead-beat loser and doesn't deserve the opportunity. Nothing good will be gained from trying to force the child or the father into the situation. Imagine sending a child off to visitation where their father doesn't want them to be there... better off in an environment where they feel love and comfort i think.

Jamie - posted on 06/04/2009

1,488

41

234

Quoting LaCi:



Quoting Jamie:

Laci, I understand where you are coming from. But dont you think your child should be given every chance possible? Wouldnt it be better for your child for you not to have to struggle to support him/her? Doesnt your child deserve to have the support of 2 parents? The 2 parents who conceived her and the 2 parents as you atested, agreed to have her?





No, I don't think its important to my child. Why would I want someone in my childs life who doesn't want to be there? There is nothing good that can arise from forcing someone to be in a childs life. Its much better to surround the child with people who DO want to be there, who will make the child feel appreciated and loved, rather than people who are only there for legal reasons






I didnt mean force them to be there physically I mean financially. I know my daughter has been given many opputinuties because her dad pays childsupport, even though he hasnt seen her in 2 yrs. Im by no means saying a father has to be a father, we all know most dont. But I think its important for them to suppor thier children financially. I make good money and so does my current husband, but my daughter has been able to do dance lessons because of childsupport. Something I wouldnt be able to afford otherwise. So i feel like I would be cheating her by not holding her father accountable.

Melissa - posted on 06/04/2009

1

0

0

Sperm donor, yes, other two, no. Most people with half a brain know that contraceptives are not 100%. Chose not to partiticipate in the child's life - fine, your loss, but you aer still responsible for the kid.

Jo - posted on 06/04/2009

6

1

1

i think that dad #3 can opt out of beinga dad because he was just a donor and realistically he shouldnt have to pay anything, he was only there to supply the goods n that was it.

dad #2 i feel very sorry for because the mother really shouldve told him sooner that he had a child, 2 years is a longtime, esp when he has now got a new family. i think that the mother not being harsh or anything is a gold digger to be completely honest.

dad #1 i can relate to because me and my ex broke up just before i found out i was pregnant and he didnt want me to keep the baby because he just wasnt ready. he loves his boy but has nothin to do with him and he isnt paying any child support. he also has another baby on the way, so i think that dad #1 should have to pay child support even if he doesnt have to have anything to do with the child. he had sex with her he should face up to it.

Amie - posted on 06/04/2009

6,596

20

408

Laci while I understand your logic I still don't agree. The Dad's should at least pay support and as for seeing them. Unless there's a good reason for them not to why not be involved in your child's life? There are women too out there who shouldn't be mom's but they are because they are the one's who carry and have the child. They only care about how it's affecting their life and what an inconvenience it is. Suck it up! You created a LIFE, YOUR needs and wants no longer matter, the child's does. If you can't be a decent parent to any child that might arise don't have sex. It is that simple. If my 16 year old sister can figure this out I'm sure adults can too.

Amie - posted on 06/04/2009

6,596

20

408

Quoting Jamie:

Where can I find this transcript, i would love to read it and wish I could have seen the episode.


http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/1150



 



If the link doesn't work go to Dr. Phil web page.



Shows & Videos(top of the page) > Shows this week (left hand side) > Then Tuesday June 2nd.. Forced to be a Father.



 

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms