Anyone extended rear facing?

Wendy - posted on 02/07/2011

Elfrieda: In Ontario, an infant MUST be both 1 year AND 22lbs to forward face. It is not a recommendation, it is LAW. This is the same in most provinces.
ERF has been proven safest by many MANY testing situations, here is a visual example of WHY
As per the legs touching the back of the seat being a concern, I can say this: The most common injury for a forward facing child is in fact, a broken leg, a close second is a broken neck or internal decapitation (when the skull is removed from the spine). There has never been a documented case of an ERF (Extended Rear Faced) child having broken their leg as a result of being ERF. The saying I use most is "Broken leg, cast it. Broken neck, casket."
You're only as safe as the worst driver on the road. While each of us is confident in our own abilities, are you so confident in the teenager who's texting and driving, and in the car behind you? Buckle accordingly.
Feel free to message me with any child passenger related questions. I am a Canadian Tech, but have many US tech friends who would happily help out!
Wendy
Child Restraint Systems Technician
Halifax NS

Annamarie - posted on 02/07/2011

Yes, I'm keeping DD RF until she maxes out the RF limits of her seat! She's 2y7m, riding in a True Fit Premier. I'm hoping she makes it to 4 years old. :D She rides in a True Fit in daddy's car and Graco MyRide's in both grandparent's cars.

She is perfectly comfortable rear facing and I have no fears about her legs being too scrunched. Kids are flexible and more comfortable with their legs up than just dangling anyway. And we have just as much interaction as we would if she were FF. If I'm driving, I shouldn't be turning to look at her or interacting physically in any way. Her mouth and ears work the same forward facing or rear. I also know she can see plenty from where she sits because she knows instantly where we are or where we're headed and will mention things she sees.

User - posted on 02/07/2011

Oh my, there is so much misinformation in this thread! As a CPST, I really hate to see that.

For starters, when a child outgrows their infant carrier (either by height or weight) the next appropriate step in a convertible seat. These can be installed first rear-facing, and then later on forward-facing. All convertible seats in the US have at least a 30lbs rear-facing weight limit, with most being 35lbs and 40lbs, and even up to 45lbs. The forward-facing limits vary as well, from 40lbs up to 80lbs. So if a child outgrows their infant carrier, that does not automatically mean it is time to forward face them.
Also, it's important to note that around the 9mo-1yo stage kids dislike being in a car seat period. Many parents 'read' this as 'oh, they dislike being rear-facing'. A 1yo who has never been forward-facing wouldn't know the difference, they're just going through a phase and if you're patient they will simply outgrow that phase.

This study was done of crashes with passengers ages 0-23 months that occurred between 1988 and 2003. It showed that "Children in F(orward)F(acing)C(ar)S(seats)s were significantly more likely to be seriously injured than children restrained in R(ear)F(acing)C(ar)S(eats)s in all crash types":
http://fcs.tamu.edu/safety/passenger_saf...

As an earlier poster said, that benefit doesn't suddenly go away on a child's 2nd birthday. It's just that there were not enough children rear-facing over the age of 2 to have any statistics to use for this study.

However, if you read through carefully you'll see there have been studies done in Sweden where children are routinely rear-faced to age 4 and above. And those studies all show an increase in safety for the rear-facing children.

This is an older study, which can help someone understand crash forces and what happens in a crash. If you scroll to page 6 you'll see the difference is very marked between a child in a convertible seat rear-facing in a front impact and one forward-facing. I find that most parents who see this image of any similar one are VERY receptive to rear-facing to the weight limit of their convertible seat which is the current recommendation. It's startling.

http://www.umtri.umich.edu/content/rr31_...


The AAP encourages parents to keep their children rear-facing until the reach the rear-facing limits of their child's convertible car seat (height or weight, whichever comes first).

Children's legs are not an issue. In fact, there are more reports of leg injuries of FORWARD-facing children than there are of ones rear-facing.

Coleen
CPST

Wendy - posted on 02/07/2011

Oh, and Melissa, There are laws regarding forward facing in your state, and if you review said law, you will realize that you have broken the law. In CT, all infants under 1 year and 22 lbs MUST be rear facing. This is pretty standard across the board in the US, where in most states have a similar or the same law.
If you're not going to use best practice and install your seat as per the manufacturer's instruction, and ERF, at least follow the laws, and don't encourage other parents to break the law, and risk their child's life.

Alisa - posted on 02/06/2011

We are planning to ERF. I work with people who have Traumatic Brain Injury, so I know firsthand how much safer ERF is (when done properly) than turning kids too soon. Our carseat (Graco MyRide65), allows my daughter to rear face up to 40 lbs. She's 24 pounds, so she has a ways to go.

Karen - posted on 03/13/2011

I was planning to ERF but then my son became too tall for his seat, even then I tried to put it off but now with him being 25lbs... I've accepted that he'll have to face forward.

Wendy - posted on 02/10/2011

The top line of the chest clip should be in line with the crease of the child's arm pit. :)

Juli - posted on 02/10/2011

Well my daughter is very petite for her age (14 lbs and 14 months old) So she will be rear facing till 20 lbs (the rate shes going she'll probably be 2yrs old)

Darla - posted on 02/09/2011

I have a 3 1/2 year old and I know for a fact she is getting to tall for the carseat harness though right now I'm trying my hardest to keep her in the harness cause I know I'm not ready to change to a regular booster seat but there is no way that she would fit in the carseat rear facing not to mention the fact she would hate not seeing forward. I have a 14 month old and she is front facing. What is more important than the way they are facing it's how there carseat is fitting them and the harness snaped in the right positions. My rule of fine is 2 inches below the chin is where the chest plate is suppose to be and I know this because I go to car seat check ups all the time to make sure I have their car seat securing in the car and to make sure they are fitting it properly.

Angie - posted on 02/08/2011

@ Rebecca, what seat do you have? Some seats provide more leg room than others. Some seats are taller than others. If you want to ERF, you should choose your seat based on tall shell and high weight limit. The Radian is tall and RFs to 40 or 45 lbs., depending on model. The Safety 1st Complete Air is the tallest convertible and RF to 40 lbs. Bent legs are the least of my concerns, which is a big reason a lot of parents turn their kids. I posted a video of older kids ERF on the first page here. Those kids look pretty comfy to me. :)

Rebecca - posted on 02/08/2011

I am in total agreement with the 'idea' of this. But, how in the world do your kids still fit in a rear facing carseat. My son isn't especially tall as a matter of fact he's a bit on the short side and I felt he could have used more room before I turned him around. He also is much happier in the forward facing carseat.

Sarah - posted on 02/08/2011

I am definitely with everyone on the ERF side. My son is 13 months, 25 lbs, and still rear facing. His carseat is rear facing until 40 lbs, and he'll be rear facing until he reaches that point. If we were in an accident, God forbid, I would much rather him have broken legs over a snapped neck. It's MUCH safer....Grace My Ride 65.

Julia - posted on 02/08/2011

We turned our daughter front facing once she hit the weight limit on the car seat. She was about 5 or 6 months old.

User - posted on 02/08/2011

@ Angie, I think you're right about the "car seat criers" My DS constantly cried in his Peg Perego infant bucket. I couldn't take it anymore and at 5 months I turned him FF (just kidding LOL!!!) At 5 months I bought a RFing convertible seat and he did have the occasional meltdown but it was much better and I am happy to say he's still RFing at 2.5 :)
I pass him things quite easily and he looks more comfortable to have place to rest his feet vs having them dangle.

Angie - posted on 02/07/2011

@ Annemarie, awesome post! Easier interaction and loading are just selfish and lazy excuses made up by parents. I don't understand the argument that babies cry when RF, so they must want to FF. Babies don't even realize FF is an option until they've done it. I bet a lot of "car criers" would have benefited more from a big, comfy convertible car seat to replace the infant seat than being turned too early. And the statement that FF is as safe as RF is NOT true when describing a child under 2. Studies support that RF is 500% safer to age 2. It's still true after that, there are just no studies to prove it to hard headed, selfish, lazy parents.

Francesca - posted on 02/07/2011

My first daughter screamed non-stop for a year until we could turn her around, starting with the first ride home from the hospital. But that was before the big push for rear-facing anyway. My second daughter doesn't really seem to mind sitting backwards, and I'll leave her that way for as long as that remains true. (She's 14 months old now.) We have a Maxi-Cosi.

Mary - posted on 02/07/2011

yes i am. my son is small. only 28 inches and 22.4 lbs. we got a big boy carseat, but it's still rear facing until he's AT LEAST 30 inches (and even more if he's still comfortable.)

I have the Evenflo Triumph. the manual says 35 inches OR if the top of the head is within 1 inch of the top of the car set back. If he hits either of those, we have to turn him around. but at this rate he'll be 5 lol.



i'm thinking 2-3 years if he'll let me... i'll have to play it by ear.

Angie - posted on 02/07/2011

@Melissa Odelius, Can you please link us to these many studies and tests about the lack of safety of rear facing? IF this is true, we all want to read them. Thanks.

Stephanie - posted on 02/06/2011

and I realize that there are seats out there that go to 40 but it's not worth him growing out of it in his length weight isn't the only thing that you need to base a car seat on

Stephanie - posted on 02/06/2011

I am hoping to ERF as long as possible! My 13mon son(14mon on 2-8) is flirting with 20 lbs and has been for months. He is just a skinny lil guy. Our seat RF til 35 lbs so he has a way to go on it.
My SIL & I are in the minority with our friends and family and are constantly being scrutinized - her 2 1/2 yr old son (my nephew) is ERF too!! Our MIL is the worst about harassing us too. I wish more people around us did their research and at least try to understand why it is so much safer.
We are from south of Fort Worth, TX btw, but I am currently in Colorado Springs, CO and in the minority here also.

Stephanie - posted on 02/06/2011

I would if I could my first I was able to do it untillhe was almost 2 but because he stood to my belly button ( I'm 5 4) and weighted almost 40 pounds I had to switch for his own safety per a doctor with my second he is 13 months standing 6 inches below where my leg and hip connect weighing in at almost 30 pounds it's had to find a seat that fit his height and weight

Bianca - posted on 02/06/2011

My daughter is 13 months and she is still rear facing. I did some research and according to the American Board of Pediatrics they recommend rear facing until I believe 35 lbs. It's confusing because a lot of carseats will say if your child is of a certain weight and height it's ok to rear face sooner. Just go with your better judgement. At least I know my daughter is so much safer!

Melissa - posted on 02/06/2011

from the research i've done there's nothing that really proves rear-facing is much safer than front-facing. some people believe if the harness in the seat were to malfunction that the seat being in front of the child would be a good soft barrier to stop them, but many studies and tests have shown that a child of a heavier weight (one that would legally allow forward-facing) would make it more likely that the child would go over the seat and out the window anyways. everyone has their own reasons for doing what they feel is best, i'd simply never heard of keeping your child rear-facing, and i like to read up on things before forming an opinion, so that's what i did.

my son has been forward facing since 10 months. he already met the weight requirement and he was too big for his car seat (his poor legs were all scrunched against the seat in the rear-facing) so we had to replace the car seat, so i just decided to turn him around. i drive a big car, he sits in the center of the back seat, i have his seat strapped in with two seatbelts stretched to criss-cross to hold his chair steady, plus there's a latch that holds the back of the seat steady on the back dash. i enjoy being able to interact with my son while driving. i'm the driver of the family, so my son's father will usually turn a bit and talk with him, point out fun things for him to see, it makes driving fun for him. he's always hated being confined to his chair, so interacting with him and making it fun for him is helping him realize that car rides and his car seat aren't bad things.

we live in connecticut, our son is 14 months, and he's been forward-facing for 6 months and loving every minute of it :0)

Kim - posted on 02/05/2011

I still have my boys rear facing. Now that it's winter, we don't go out much so it isn't an issue. I'm waiting as long as I can.

Serree - posted on 02/04/2011

I am in Colorado and have 14 month old twins and we are ERF, my infant car seats went to 32lbs or 32ins, at 12 month apt our little girl was already 30in so we decided to get new car seats at first got forward facing only, then I saw the forward facing crash test and it scared me half to death. I returned the seats and got Safety 1st complete air which goes to 40lb rear facing. They have never had an issue with rear facing so I will keep doing it as long as I can. I think most of my friends are also doing ERF.

Darci - posted on 02/04/2011

Im ERF with my daughter. We got a sunshine kids Radian XT in Flora. I think its just so much safer that I really should. I am finding it difficult to tighten her straps in this new seat. We just switched so I hope it wasnt a mistake. We could have gotten the Britax Marathon 65. Anyway Im in Ottawa Canada and am in the minority for my friends.

[deleted account]

My son is way too all, even at 10 months his feet were so far up on the seat that he would have broken his legs in an accident. We had to turn him around at 1 year. Girls are much smaller...

Andrea - posted on 02/04/2011

Hi there,
My LO is rear facing at the mo, she's 15mths and about 17 1/2 lbs she was 11 wks prem. She hates facing to the rear so will move her as soon as I can, tried the mirror thing but couldnt get it to stay where it needed to be. I am in the UK and legally they can face forward at 9mths/20lbs.
Andrea

Lekisha - posted on 02/03/2011

I have 13 month old twin sons. At their 12 month check-up, one weighed 17 lbs 13 oz & the other weighed 20 lbs 11 oz. I plan to keep them rear facing until they reach the limit of their car seats which is 35 lbs. I have the Evenflo Symphony 65 convertible car seats. My sons don't complain or fuss because they are rear facing while riding in either our sedan or our minivan. We have two sets of the car seats for each vehicle. I think rear facing is much safer and I live in New York State.

Juliette - posted on 02/03/2011

I have the Graco, which can be both front and rear facing. Symantha is the weight stipulated to face forward. But I understand where you are coming from. I am front facing because she cannot front face because of air bags in up front, but because we have a van she is perfectly placed behind the drivers seat and she is quite comfortable. But I think you should do what you think is best for your little one.

Niki - posted on 02/02/2011

my first son who is now almost 4yrs old stayed rear facing until he was 11 mths as he was too long I was worried about more harm coming to him if we left him rear facing. and our second we turned him around at 12 mths much happier now that he can see. I'm from Alberta, Canada

Shanna - posted on 02/01/2011

My son is currently rear facing. He is 13 months now 26lbs and 35 inches...he will probably be rear-facing until he is 2-3 yo... but that truly depends on the particular ride and the point at which he would have to sit "Indian-style"...sitting crossed legged for short rides fine...but I dont think that I would have him like that on those 7-8hr (overnight) trips to Boston.

I cannot recall the name of his seat...but I do love it with all of its extra cushing...and its recliner like appeal.

Amy - posted on 02/01/2011

I wanetd to ERF but once she was too big for her baby seat and we got a convertible Britax seat she started getting car sick. I guess because it held her in a different position. She threw up every car ride until I turned her forward facing. Her Ped said it was okay but I was majorly disappointed, but what could I do? I couldn't let her be sick everytime she was in the car :(.

Angie - posted on 02/01/2011

@Kay, that's exactly why I asked if posters were in the US or otherwise. I know some countries don't have options readily available to ERF. If my daughter wasn't so tiny, I'd be really tempted to import a Swedish seat to RF to 55 lbs. But she'll have plenty of time in her 45 lb. RF seat, since she's so tiny. :)

[deleted account]

Hi
Im not liking or disliking the idea but im in the UK and the rear facing newborn car seat we have here ( you dont show one in the video) only go up too 12moths or 13kg then you go up to the next size seats which are forward facing 9month-4 years the ones you have in the pictures we dont have over here so i guess its up to you my child is foreward facing and hes 13 months :0)

Jessica - posted on 02/01/2011

My girls will be rear-facing as long as their legs will allow for the space. We're not even close to the 20lb mark, but they're 13 months old. Both will likely outgrow the length requirements on the infant seats before we hit the weight restriction. Just be careful to check the height restrictions, a lot of people think because a seat goes to 30lbs it doesn't matter the length of the baby, but there are TWO requirements on every seat. We have the Chicco Keyfit30, and it's a 30lb/30in seat. As long as they're not 30in (we've got about 5" to go) they'll be in those. Then we'll look for a convertible I can rear-face if they're not past 2/30lbs yet. The girls aren't screaming, except if we're on really long car rides, and it's not having any type of way to move and play that's upsetting, not rear-facing. They have mirrors in one car, but in the other they don't, and neither really seem to care, as long as they have a few rings to play with. I'm in the Puget Sound, Washington region.

Nicole - posted on 02/01/2011

My son is 14 months old and around 23 lbs. He is rear facing in an Evenflo seat and I plan to keep it that way until he is over the rear facing weight restriction on his seat, 35 lbs. If he gets upset in his seat, it is not because he is backwards, it's because he wants to be able to run around, not sit still in a carseat. My mom was bugging me to turn his seat forward in her car because she just got a new car with a DVD player. I made sure she came to his next doctor appointment with me so she heard the doctor say "the longer the better" when it came to rear facing.

Sandi - posted on 02/01/2011

I'm in Ontario Canada, and we turned our daughter around at 11 months. Again, like most others her who have already turned their children around, the screaming was unbearable! It would get to the point that she was choking because she was crying and screaming so much. Once we switched her around, it completely stopped! She was 21lbs 15oz at 1 year, so we switched her at about 21lbs. She is a happy camper now in her car seat!

Ching - posted on 01/31/2011

Elfrieda, you live in such a lovely country where drivers are so sweet. Here, if they could slam on the accelerator when they see you coming close to the zebra crossing, they will :) I have decided to ERF for my son too, but only for as long as he can still fit into the rear-facing baby car seat...which is not going to be too long! My reasons:
1) Drivers here are quite aggresive and they mostly drive fast. (I'm in Bangkok by the way!)
2) He's doing OK in the rear facing position, so I'm not complaining.
3) I'm still sitting in the back seat with little one, so by having him on ERF, I can still enjoy seeing his face LOL

Samantha - posted on 01/31/2011

Hello! I'm from Oklahoma and my daughter just turned 1 on December 30th. She's a skinny baby and weighed in at 18.6lbs for her 12 month check up and she's 31 inches tall. It's been over a month now and I'm sure she's over 22lbs but I plan on keeping her rear facing until she is too. She still fits into her Graco infant car seat but we will be buying a safety 1st conv. car seat soon. I was really excited thinking I could turn her around until I googled rear facing and it told me a bunch of stuff that I needed to know. My daughter does not have a problem with rear facing only because I keep her occupied...we have an old portable dvd player in my SUV and I turn of her favorite dvd (baby einstein of course) if I know we are going to be in the car for a while.I also have toys and snacks for the road trips.I plan on keeping her rear facing until she is 2 years old..maybe longer if she is okay with it. She doesn't know that there is any other way to sit so I think if a child is mad or fussy it's because they are BORED...children get bored very easily so I say entertain and make it a joyful, peaceful experience!

Anna - posted on 01/31/2011

We are in Arizona and are definitely keeping our little one ERF as long as possible. She is a tall baby, almost 33 in and 26lbs at 13 1/2 months, but her being taller helps her be able to look out the window and she totally doesn't mind being RF. We have an orbit, so in the RF position, it is still on the base, which also makes it a bit taller for her.

Kate - posted on 01/31/2011

mine was turned around at 11 months she was at the weight limit and fussed the whole time she was rear facing...car rides are much more pleasant now, her car seat is installed correctly and secure and her pedi gave me the ok

M - posted on 01/30/2011

No, we turned around the car seats when both of our kids were 20 lbs and 1 year old (at 17 1/2 months for our daughter and 12 months for our son). They didn't have any leg room to remain facing the back seat. Also, it was so much better when my daughter got turned around. She was very happy and we could hand things to her like her blankie or water bottle.

Angie - posted on 01/30/2011

@Mindy, I'm from WV, so I don't think we know each other. I do, however, nerd around on the forums on www.car-seat.org. Do you hang out there? :)

Kara - posted on 01/30/2011

I am located in the US and my son is currently 13mo and just at 20lb. My peditircian suggested we keep him rear facing for a while, at least till 2. I'm ERFing as long as he is comfortable. He really doesn't mind sitting RF either. I too feel it is just safer, and we are using the Evenflo Triumph Premier this seat goes up to 33lbs rearfacing and 50 lbs forward.

Mindy - posted on 01/30/2011

Angie, :) I love that video, too. I actually was questioned about two weeks ago. This mom said to me, "Isn't your daughter older than my son?" I replied, "Yes". She says, "Then why do you still have her rear facing?" I feel really bad about this now. I wish I had taken a moment to collect myself before I answered, but I said, "Um, because it's safer..." Trust me it was snotty. I wish I had educated instead of condemned. :) Oh well, I will be prepared for the next incident.

BTW your name sounds familiar, do we know each other through mutual friends?

Angie - posted on 01/30/2011

@Mindy, I totally agree! I love this video, BTW. :D Rear facing = 500% safer to age 2. It is beyond that, there just aren't studies to back that claim up. The benefit doesn't suddenly go away at 730 days of age. :) I love ERF. I just wish my daughter looked her age, instead of 6 months, so more people would look at me weird. I can't wait to have people ask me about it so I can let my zest for it burst forth onto them. LOL, mostly kidding there.

Mindy - posted on 01/29/2011

I am hoping to stay rear-facing as long as possible. After doing some research, I feel it is safer for my daughter. She doesn't know that front facing is even an option and doesn't mind being in her car seat. I am definitely in the minority in my area. :) I'm in Idaho, U.S.

Samantha - posted on 01/29/2011

We turned her around at 13months. She absolutely hated to be rear faced, she would scream non stop until she got out. Also she is pretty long so her legs were always bent and she was uncomfortable. She is much happier front facing and in my opinion just as safe.

Jennifer - posted on 01/26/2011

We are ERF until Zoie reaches the weight limit of her carseat which is 30 pounds on my Graco Comfort Sport and 35 pounds on the Safety 1st all in one seat in my husband's jeep. She was 17 pounds at her one year appointment so we are hoping to ERF for at least another year, possibly longer. We are in Oklahoma

Kim - posted on 01/26/2011

We have a maxi cosi carseat. Its european but it had great safety ratings. I spoke to the pediatrician abt this the other day. He said rear facing till age two. They may be too long after that age. I am in the US.

Kristy - posted on 01/26/2011

Yep, our little one is 13 1/2 months and still rear facing. I am paranoid about her safety, so my hubby and I decided to continue. I will probably stop between 1 1/2-2yrs, though because she is getting so big. She is already 31in tall and 25-26lbs.

Elfrieda - posted on 01/26/2011

Oh man, I'm going to get criticized. I turned my son around at 8 months, when he reached the the 22 lb weight limit on the infant carseat. Mostly to stop the constant screaming that happened for the entire duration of the car ride. It worked!
I'm in Ontario, Canada. The law says 22lbs or 1 year before turning around, and it's STRONGLY recommended to wait both 1 year and 22 lbs, plus it's better if you wait until the baby is walking. Or graduated from high school. (joking)
My reasons for not ERF are:
1- the baby is the safest person in the car anyway, even front-facing. How many times have you heard "oh, it's terrible, everybody died except the baby."
2 - I don't like the constant screaming.
3 - My husband and I are very careful drivers.
4 - We live out in the country, where the drivers are not at all aggressive. (when you're walking in town on the sidewalk, if you wander too near the edge, all the cars brake and wait, just in case you want to cross the street! It used to annoy me, but now I think it's sweet.)