Should I feel bad for voting as democrat before but I strongly disagree with abortions and same sex marriages?how do you feell?

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Linda - posted on 01/23/2012

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Well, I don't know about life in the UK, but here in America there is very little discrimination against gays. There is, however, much discrimination against Christians. Homosexuality is a sin, according to the Bible. It's not necessarily any worse than other sins, but it is wrong. God's Word is clear on this. However, Christians who simply state that they believe it is wrong have lost their jobs, been sued, been kicked out of school, and been subjected to all sorts of abuse. Catholic Charities, who had been placing children for adoption for decades, had to shut down because the State wanted to force them to place children in homes with homosexual parents,,,even though research has clearly shown children are better with one mother and one father. If a Christian photographer doesn't want to photograph a gay wedding, they should not have to do so. We have the freedom of religion in this country, and freedom to exercise our religion in the way we see fit. I am not saying that Christians should go around blasting gays--we need to show them love and hopefully lead them to Christ. However, we should not have to hide our beliefs because society has changed. We should not have to act against our principles.

Jean - posted on 11/14/2012

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I strongly believe that our country has prospered because it has been founded on a Christian God and is a place where all can take refuge and be free without judgement as long as their life does not impede on Christian standards of living (murder, rape, lying, etc.). Christianity is where our country got its sense of morality from. What defines right from wrong if it is not a higher power? Humans are not blessed with an intuitive sense of right from wrong, but we are programed with a compulsion towards religion and belonging. Something cannot be wrong because a leader says it is so without it being an authoritarian government unless there is a higher power who gives us a path to morality. For this reason I cannot believe that separation of church and state is right. Historically it is not the case with our country as this country was made on Christian values and we cannot uphold those values without that religion. We have been moving towards burying our religion and being discreet about it, when this was the very reason our country was created. We were made to be a country of Christian religious freedom (of course sinners and people of other religions would be welcome as well as all are free to dwell in Christ's presence). Religious freedom is key, not just where others can't see it. I believe that there will be a time when people will move back towards religion, because ultimately it is the strength that binds a country together and allows us to make it through hard times. For now, it is a battle for religion and the freedom to express it. I cannot vote for a candidate that does not openly believe that God is present not just in the church, but in every aspect of human right. I believe it is turning your back on your faith to knowingly vote for a candidate that will work to make religion less prominent or important in this country. Whether they advocate abortion, push birth control on Catholic institutions, or work to further separate church and state. For now the conservatives are the ones who believe religion is a key to a healthy country. Being Christian wont make our country money, but it will allow for us to be moral and Christian in our ways, which led us to hundreds of years of prosperity before now. I am not about forcing others to be religious, but if they don't believe in democracy and freedom to express religion than there are hundreds of other countries where they can be happy. This is one nation created under God where all can be equal and be prosperous.

Linda - posted on 09/19/2012

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Katie, it is not elected officials which decide court cases, but judges who have the position for life. A judge doesn't always rule the way they are expected to. Furthermore, there are often political battles these days over the nominations. Case in point, Judge Bork, nominated by Reagan in the '80's. The Democratic congress unfairly criticized him because he was against abortion, made scurrilous accusations, and "borked" him. Instead of a reliable justice, we ended up with Anthony Kennedy.



As far as PRESIDENTS go, all the Democratic presidential candidates since Carter have been for abortion; all the Republican candidates have been against it. Each Republican president institutes the "Mexico City" proclamation, making it illegal for US tax dollars to be used for abortions overseas; each Democratic president has over-ruled this policy.



A further point is that "republican" does not always mean "conservative". While the Republican platform has been pro-life at least since Reagan, the Democratic platform has been pro-abortion at least as long. However, this does not mean that all Republicans are pro-life or that all Democrats are pro-abortion--just that most of them are. You still need to do your homework before each election.

Amy - posted on 04/02/2012

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The other big difference is one of condoning the act as opposed to showing God's love and respect to other people who sin (because we all sin)...I am a Christian and as such I will not DISCIMINATE (I hate that word) against someone who is Gay when doing business with them or having any other dealings with them. They are people who sin just like me...I do not like when I sin and I seek to right it through confession, repentance and reconciliation...but choosing to help a gay couple to get married (part of the sin process) by photographing their wedding or making their cake or designing their outfits or whatever, is completely different than showing them God's love by not discriminating against them as people....Just as my husband who is a medical practitioner will not give underage (and obviously unmarried) young ladies birth control meds because it is against his religious beliefs.

Karen - posted on 04/02/2012

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Rosie,

I have not taken any offense at the things you have posted, so please don't feel that I am angry or sarcastic... I am not… so I’m saying this in love.



It is clear by your statements that you think Christians want to deny paying insurance premiums for healthcare for many different reasons but that is simply not the case. Catholics believe that birth control is a form of abortion. As a nurse, I understand why they believe that. Birth control pills prevent the lining of the uterus from preparing to support a pregnancy. I'm not sure about the newer birth control pills, but the first birth control pills did not prevent an egg from being fertilized, they just prevented it from attaching to the uterine wall to support life. Catholics believe that the fertilized egg, prior to implantation, with cells already beginning to divide, is a sacred and viable form of human life. That is why they see birth control as abortion. The law you are referring to simply allows them to refrain from providing birth control pills to their employees based on their religious beliefs. No one said anything about not providing healthcare for unwed mothers, smokers, homosexuals, or anyone in any other situation. The Republican Party doesn't want to take away your birth control. However, it does want to take away or limit the use of abortions as a form of birth control. They also want to allow the Catholic Church, or any other church or religion, to refrain from paying for birth control pills for their employees but only if it is contrary to their religious belief. No one is stopping those employees from purchasing birth control pills with their own money. No one is threatening them with being fired because they use birth control. They are still free to use birth control without any repercussions from their employers. They are also free to quit that job and go to work for any Non-Catholic employer if they so desire.



As for judging others, as Christians we are still supposed know the difference between right and wrong. We are supposed to try to avoid doing what is wrong as well as identify the wrongdoing of others. That is technically judging others... the difference is that we are not to follow through by condemning others... only Jesus has earned the right to sentence or condemn them. He earned that right by living a perfect, sin-free life here on earth. Since we ourselves are not without sin, we can not elevate ourselves to that position. Jesus does want us to lovingly confront those who are doing wrong. The New Testament is full of letters to the new Christians in the new Churches that tell them how to live their lives, how to identify those who are falling away from Christ and causing others to fall away from Christ, and then how to confront those people in the church.



You don't think that the freedom of Christians is threatened. I strongly disagree with that. The History books for our public schools have been re-written to remove any references to our country being founded by Christians seeking freedom of religion. Teachers dare not teach that without fear of losing their jobs. The Pledge of Allegiance is no longer recited because of the phrase "under God." The liberal politicians have tried to censor our radio programs on Christian Radio or to bury them in red tape and expensive legal fees and documentation. Liberals have tried to censor and control the internet. Free speech is no longer a given right, legislation is slowly eroding our rights. You can turn a blind eye to all of this if you want to, and that is your right. But I choose to hold our politicians accountable for their actions. I choose to stand up for the rights I was born with in this country. I don't wish to drive out or silence those who disagree with me. I am not trying to take their rights away from them. They should have the same rights that I have... but they don't have the right to take my rights away from me... and that is what they are trying to do.



If you really want to know what is going on in our country, and in the world, you need to listen to conservative media stations along with the liberal media stations. Don’t listen to either one exclusively. Listen to both, then you get the whole story instead of just the select information that is intended to make you believe as they do. Form your own opinions with all of the information that you can get, don’t let others form your opinions for you because of the information that they are feeding you.



I may not always be right about everything, but I am not blind to what is going on in our government. Christian beliefs and values are being threatened at every turn. We are supposed to allow the special interest groups to re-write our country’s history, influence our children, and teach our children to tolerate their lifestyles without identifying those their choices as right or wrong. We are not supposed to say anything at all and if we do we are labeled, criticized and even threatened. We are supposed to be tolerant of all things but the special interest groups do not tolerate us or our beliefs.



Rosie, you have the right to your beliefs and I have the right to my own beliefs. I will not stand by in silence while my rights are being stripped away. Please pray for God to reveal the truth to you. God bless you.



Respectfully,

Karen

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User - posted on 11/06/2012

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what happened to the medical terms zygote.. embryo...fetus?? I thought these terms where to describe an unborn child



This is why i do not believe myselfthat parasite is the proper "term"



Parasite:





an organism that lives on or in an organism of ANOTHER SPECIES known as the host, from the body of which it obtains nutriment.



2.

a person who receives support, advantage, or the like, from another or others without giving any useful or proper return, as one who lives on the hospitality of others.



3.

(in ancient Greece) a person who received free meals in return for amusing or impudent conversation, flattering remarks, etc.



Number 2 without giving any useful or proper return?



What about forming into a human, bringing the mother a child, giving the mother a new found love



What about the advantages of "the baby being in a human female"



In many diseases, the symptoms greatly decrease

In some cancers the risk of obtaining them are reduced

Some, not all,mothers have increased energy

from higher hormone levels the senses are increased.



I believe the (first line) terms are the best scientifically to describe my baby. I will never ever call myself or anyone else a parasite, and I do not put humans on the same level as any other mammal. I do understand where you are coming from (we all have our own opinions) but I just simply disagree on this one, and wanted you to know where I am coming from. I do respect your opinion and hope I dont offend you in anyway from my posts

I dont mean to be in anyway, just defending my side



I do also hope that whoever is going to be president will also address the important issues, better than they are now

User - posted on 11/05/2012

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just reading throught the other posts this is still off topic, but I have to say that it makes me completely SICK to know that people consider an in-utero child a PARASITE!!! My word!!!It makes me really really sad to think about it. What do you think ARY about yourself, that you were at one point a parasite? Well I may not know you or even agree with you, but I have to say you were surely not, far from it!!!

User - posted on 11/05/2012

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I say if you feel bad about it and you dont believe what they can make happen I wouldnt go for it. DO what makes you feel good, your vote counts. I am registeredd as an independant because I feel that we all have opinions that cant be labeled with a name. We are all different But I am voting republican because the views more suite my beliefs and I def. disagree as with you on those two issues. lol I know Im voting independant but I wouldd never vote for a democrat just because of their views like this.

Linda - posted on 11/05/2012

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Angela, you have to realize that the mainstream media's goal is to re-elect Obama. Therefore, they slant every article to try to further their agenda. It's actually almost treasonous in the way they have abandoned their responsibilty to report the facts. They act as paid campaign workers for Obama! No President is going to be able to pass any significant legislation banning abortion outright for the forseeable future....and even if he did, the Supreme Court could nullify it. The real battleground for abortion these days is in the Supreme Court....and which person gets to nominate the Justices which serve there for life. We already know the kind of judges which Obama would nominate...and they are very extreme. If you want to find a more balanced approach to news, I would suggest exploring www.heritage.org.

Carla - posted on 11/03/2012

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You know, I feel kinda proud that these silly children single me out as 'bad'. How do you know the devil doesn't like your testimony? When he is sending his followers to bug you, which this did, at first. But now I understand, and stand a little taller, knowing Jesus loves me, and satan's mad!



God bless, all!

Carla - posted on 11/02/2012

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As someone said, this has gotten wayyy off track. Let's try to get back on topic.



I was a Democrat back in my teens and early twenties. Once I understood their platform more, I had to change my stand. There are sooo many other issues besides abortions and same sex marriages! There is literally NOTHING they profess that agrees with my beliefs.



Now, as for do I feel bad? No. I didn't understand the platform. It would be like if admired Communism--the ideal concept of Communism is nice. The reality of it? Not so much. So I changed my opinion. We all change, as our knowledge increases.



So let's not attack each other for what they believe or don't. Let's pray for each other, that Truth will be revealed.



God bless, all.

Linda - posted on 11/01/2012

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Wow, Angela, you rise very early over there across the pond! But since it is quite late here, I'll try to answer your questions as briefly as I can.



I can not be dishonest, even to avoid a lawsuit. Satan is the Father of lies. I would have no problem buying/selling a house from a gay person, anymore than I would have a problem buying a house from an unmarried couple living together. However, photographing a marriage between gays is celebrating something that I could in no way celebrate. The fact of the matter is that many of these lawsuits were sought out...the gay couple went there knowing it would be a problem, not just as an innocent inquiry. They wanted the lawsuit. And not just the photographer. The Pavilion where the gays wanted to get married on the property of the Methodist church, the farm in upstate New York where another gay couple wanted to get married, the Inn in Vermont. These are all actual lawsuits, sought out specifically for litigation by the gays in order to make a point in court.



Anyone can get contraception at the local Walmart. It is not hard to acquire here!



You are wrong about not being enough parents to adopt children. It is almost impossible to adopt an infant in this country. Very few women actually put their babies up for adoption. That is why many Americans are doing overseas adoptions now. One side effect of abortion which the abortion providers don't advertise is that it increases infertility down the road. That, along with many other factors (many women now wait longer to try to have children) is producing a very high infertility rate among couples in America these days. Furthermore, there is still a large population of sincere Christians in this country who would gladly adopt a baby, even if they were not seeking to adopt, if it would save his/her life.



The whole "back alley" abortion argument is getting so old. Legalizing abortion was suppose to make it safe in this country. However, the abortion lobby is so strong (especially with the support of the current administration), that the pro-abortion people fight any law that will make it harder/more expensive to provide abortions---even if the law is for the safety/health of the mother. They haven't been inspecting the abortion clinics and they have lowered the health standards They found unbelievable conditions in one Pennsylvania clinic, having not inspected it for over 10 years. . Many women have died. California actually just passed a bill to allow physician assistants (not doctors) to perform abortions. There are numerous cases of clinics sneaking critically ill women out the back and rushing them to hospitals because the doctor went home--sometimes they make it; sometimes they don't. It's completely unpardonable and they treat the women terribly...they are just looking to make money. They don't really care about the women at all.

Linda - posted on 11/01/2012

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Ary, if you know anyone who is planning to have an abortion, I would GLADLY take care of that child after birth. Furthermore, I know a lot of other people who would as well. I would even venture to add that many of the moms here would do anything to save even one baby from death, even if it meant adopting them and raising them as their own.

Ary - posted on 11/01/2012

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Actually, a baby is a parasite until birth. Until it can live on its own without feeding upon its mother, it does not have its own rights. The slavery comparison? Utter bullshit. Not even in the same league. My argument is that you may believe how you wish to as long as you don't infringe on another person's rights. A fetus does not have the same rights as a person that has already been born. And if you want to make it law that the fetus has the same rights, then you had better be prepared to take care of that child after birth.

Linda - posted on 11/01/2012

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Wow. A lot of misinformation here. The federal government has taken numerous states to COURT because they don't want to fund Planned Parenthood, the major provider of abortion. The federal govt wants to force them to! Furthermore, Obamacare will force everyone to pay for all abortions!



Ary, if something is wrong, then it's wrong. You could use your argument to say that as long as you don't own slaves, slavery is fine. If an unborn child is a living breathing human being, and science says it is, then killing another human being who has committed no crime is murder. In our society, we usually punish murders because we hold human life valuable.



The whole same sex argument is also not just about letting two people get married. They want to take away our rights to even voice our deeply held religious beliefs. If I own a photography business, and it would make me extremely uncomfortable to film a wedding for two men, then I shouldn't be sued for refusing to do that. Yet that is exactly what is happening. It's never really been about gay marriage. It's about taking away our freedom of expression and religion.

Ary - posted on 11/01/2012

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I don't get this argument. Sorry, but I don't. If you don't agree with abortions, then don't have one. If you don't agree with same sex marriage, then don't get married to a person of your own gender. It really is that simple. What other people do in their private life is none of anyone else's business. Not agreeing with someone does not give you the right to take their right to choose both family size and marriage partner. I don't agree with divorce, but I don't judge those that have had one, and I certainly don't want to make them illegal.

Anne - posted on 10/30/2012

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Linda I so applaud for your stand. I mention things like this in person or facebook and I am blown out of the water with vulgarity, blasphemy, etc. I am appalled at how 'they' can scream illegal conduct when we want to educate the mom and save the baby, but they can, through freedom speech etc sway, yes convince , the mom it is just a fetus so an unwanted pregnancy is best resolved with an abortion. I think the moms should see the truth, the movie that is % minutes long of babies being murdered in and out of the womb for sake of choice. And as far as the question in topic, I changed my political affiliation when I was old enough to vote and discovered what the Democratic platfirm was. I am a Republican forever more as long as they do not promote abortions. That is my one and only issue on voting that is priority. The government can take away all that I have, just dont murder the babies.

Kimberlee - posted on 10/30/2012

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Linda (again) you are wrong about federal funding being used to pay for elective abortion . That is Simply NOT true.





http://www.politifact.com/florida/statem... - "But it's not fair to say that taxpayers are paying for elective abortions. Any abortions would be paid through a separate account funded entirely through a portion of premiums paid by people who select a plan that covers abortion services, not from tax dollars. That's an important difference. Everyone who buys into a plan that covers abortion would have to pay into that abortion fund, even men. And for those with moral objections to paying a portion of their premiums for abortion services, the federal law requires that every region offer at least one alternative health plan that does not cover abortion.."

Kimberlee - posted on 10/30/2012

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Linda Nasman - Minors in some states can have an abortion without parental consent because of the issues teens may have if they involved their parents. Teens are not allowed in every state to consent to abortion without permission , some states do require consent and/or permission.



Clinics do speak to girls, alone, to ask them if the pregnancy was the result of a rape and/or sexual abuse. Still the reality is that most adult women don't report rape so to expect that all teens will is not realistic.



Some public schools ( NYC is an example) even provide birth control pills and the morning after pill now.



I don't have a problem with these issues since I realize many teens have parents that are abusive , or would be willing to force their child to abort or to carry their pregnancy and these are not things that should be forced on anyone.

Linda - posted on 10/24/2012

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Oh, and yes, there have been lawsuits....especially when said young teenager dies at the hand of the abortionist and the mother did not even know about the surgery.

Linda - posted on 10/24/2012

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Angela, I'm sorry. I should have been more clear, especially since you are probably not aware of all the issues here in the US. The problem here is some states allow young teenage girls (under 18 or even 14) to undergo abortions without the consent of the TEEN's parent. Our laws are extremely inconsistent in this area because most schools cannot even give a child Tylenol without their parent's consent, but major surgery is ok? The other problem is that if parents are not involved, then often abusers (whether older boyfriends, or abusers in a child's own family) can take a young girl to get an abortion and so cover their crime. Many, many girls are actually forced into abortions they don't want in this way. There is simply no excuse for a parent not to be involved in such a major decision concerning their minor daughter.

Linda - posted on 10/16/2012

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Indeed, who is the next President is extremely important. If we cannot repeal Obamacare next year, it will never be repealed....which means that every Christian who owns a business will be faced with the choice to (1) go against their conscience and offer health insurance which covers abortions (2) sell the business (3) close down the business or (4) sue the federal govt. Many have already opted for option 4. Eventually the govt will take over all health care as most Americans will lose their current insurance.



Furthermore, the next President will almost certainly appoint at least one Supreme Court Justice. This is, unfortunately, where these matters are usually decided. One more liberal judge like Sotomayer or Ginsburg, and we will see more abortion, more abortion without the consent of parents, and millions more dead babies.



The choice could not be more stark.

Nikkia - posted on 10/16/2012

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Whether we vote Democratic or Republican a law would have to be made and approved by the government or Americans with a majority vote. Either way if abortion is still set in place to be paid for by the ppl after its all said and done then debating about who is president is pointless.

Linda - posted on 10/15/2012

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Well, if you vote for Obama, you are not only voting for abortions, but you're voting to PAY for abortions. Unlimited taxpayer funding of abortion for any reason for 9 months.

Nikkia - posted on 10/15/2012

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I vote for who best fit the job to run our great country. The laws that I approve in my vote is what really matter. I am voting Democratic but I will nit be approving same sex marriage and abortions.

Youaintseennothingyet - posted on 10/01/2012

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Tom, I'm still going to turn this website over to 4Chan because there is only 1 person who has said anything even remotely rational. If we have to ruin the experience of one good person to break down the fanaticism of 10 more it will be justified.

Youaintseennothingyet - posted on 10/01/2012

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Tom, I'm still going to turn this website over to 4Chan because there is only 1 person who has said anything even remotely rational. If we have to ruin the experience of one good person to break down the fanaticism of 10 more it will be justified.

Carlasucks - posted on 10/01/2012

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Wow, Angela Barker. You have to be the one smart christian that I have seen on these forums. BTW there are six of us, its not one single person. People like Carla's infinitely stupid comments were beginning to bore and sadden us enough that we were going to turn this website over to the biggest website of vitriolic hate on the internet known as 4chan and then this website would really have a "troll" problem on its hands. But alas, seeing as there is a smart individual in these forums. It would be a great injustice to do something like that. We'll leave this website alone now just for you.

Carla - posted on 10/01/2012

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Yes, Linda, and they can't stop the Holy Spirit speaking to them! I woke up from my nap praying for these guys. God's Word doesn't return to Him void, but also His Love doesn't return void as well. As long as His love is being prayed over them, He is working. I expect a testimony soon from one of these guys that their life has been changed by God's love. I LOVE IT!

Linda - posted on 10/01/2012

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Since you're continuing to read this,



Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"



Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Chrsit our Lord."



Romans 5:8 "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."



Romans 10:9,10 "if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved."



I can keep going if you're going to keep reading and posting. God promises his Word will not return void, but will accomplish his purpose. I have read the whole Bible through many times and it is not an ordinary book.

FUCKRELIGION - posted on 10/01/2012

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I am so glad you cannot refute logical arguments. You have to resort to "Jesus loves you and we all need a savior" after your idiotic beliefs are absolutely torn apart when logic is applied to them.



You lose, you get nothing.

Carla - posted on 10/01/2012

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Yes, Linda, pray for them all. We ALL need Jesus, and saying we don't doesn't change that fact. God is Love, and nothing anyone says changes that, either. If we are His, then we pray for those who despitefully use us, so--



Father, we, as a community, bring these poor lost ones before Your face and ask that You speak to each and every one of them. Let them see the love You have to give, and the peace and joy living for You brings. Let us see them, not as they are now, but as lost children who need a Savior. In Jesus' Name, amen.



They can scream and yell, but they cannot stop us from praying for them.



God bless, all

Linda - posted on 10/01/2012

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Ladies, please pray for this person. The anger and vitriol shows how lost he is! He takes time out of his day to spew hate on a Christian board when he is perfectly free to ignore it. He thinks he is bothering us, but he is blind and cannot see. He doesn't know that one day EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus is Lord....only for some it will be too late. Then they will remember they had their chance and blew it. The opposite of love is apathy, not hate. Perhaps God can yet reach him.

April - posted on 09/30/2012

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I know it's pointless to respond to you but I'll respond once more. I'm glad you used the word "just" because if you look at God as the king and you think about worshipping other gods as commiting treason against the king that would be punishable by death. That's justice. We all deserve the same justice today. Death. But by Jesus making the ultimate sacrifice and by Gods grace He allows us life. So don't think you have some knowledge that we don't have because you are living with that same grace even if you dot accept it. I know what the bible says, the difference is that I understand what a just and loving and merciful and wrathful and jealous and never changing and good God does.

FuckFundamentalists - posted on 09/29/2012

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April, you are also incredibly stupid (but hey that's the norm in a Fundamentalist forum). Go get the good book. Got it? Good. Now put that away and get out your god damn Bible. Here are a list of instructions from your high and just God commanding you to commit religious genocide, the murder people that work on the sabbath, and last (but not least) to slay the elderly, young women, and children.



The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.' (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)





If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)



"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." (Ezekiel 9:5-7 NLT)





There are many more horrendous things that the bible commands you to do (turning your daughters into sex slaves, raping the wives of your enemies, burning women alive, ect,) Also don't feed me your packaged fundamentalist horseshit about how that evil is only in the old testament and those laws are now defunct because almost all of the christian culture stems from the old testament and the majority of the teachings in the old testament are still followed by the faithful (creationism bullshit,, anti-science bullshit, anti-gay bullshit, anti-women bullshit, anti-secular bullshit, ect).



Now if you really believe that any perfect and just being would work in such inefficient and cruel ways as the god in the bible, then you are a truly delusional and incredibly irrational. If you think the commands in the Bible are all moral, you are a horrible person. If you think history supports the Bible, you are incredibly ignorant. If you can look at all the contradictions and badly written stories in the Bible and come to the conclusion that it is a perfect work of text, you are incredibly stupid.







So there, I am clearly more of an expert on the Bible than you are. I strongly encourage people to read the Bible, because nothing will turn you into an atheist faster than reading the God Damn bible.



"Then quit spewing stupidity all over our boards" I literally laughed out loud at this.

Elizabeth - posted on 09/29/2012

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It is not about the donkey or the elephant...it is about the Lamb. We must vote our morals not a ticket. Please vote for Godly men and women in all offices, local and national. Our vote does count. Judges are in for a lifetime and we have seen ungodly judges change how laws are interpreted to support liberal agendas of abortion, same sex marriage, and so on. Right to life, traditional marriage, religious freedom, public prayer, and ethics and morality are important issues for our families and our future. There are 60 million Christians in America and only 30 million are registered to vote. Could you imagine the impact if these 30 million Christians would register and vote from a Biblical view?



As far as how you voted in the past, I'm not sure if you are feeling bad or wondering if you should feel bad? Either way it is in the past. It is what you do now. I pray that you have the courage and conviction to vote based upon what God says about the issues.



2 Chronicles 7:14 If My people, who are called by My name, will humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

April - posted on 09/29/2012

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Wow I love when people go to such lengths to insult someone and then their facts are so wrong. But that's fine. You clearly have no interest in learning anything about the bible or who God is. Obviously your heart isn't ready to be changed so why don't you quit wasting your time because your insults don't bother is, your poor knowledge of biblical history is laughable and youre not going to change anyone's mind here. Good luck. I hope one day your anger and hate towards the God who gives you life goes away. But only He can change your heart. Until

Then quit spewing stupidity all over our boards

Carla - posted on 09/29/2012

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The more you hack onto Christian communities trying to 'enlighten' us on the atheist theories, the more we will pray for you. God is Love. It's obvious from your postings that whoever you serve isn't.



Carla

Thereisnogod - posted on 09/28/2012

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Yes, please vote democrat. We republicans need to purge the fundamentalist idiots that have hijacked our party. Actually don't vote, people that believe the earth is 6000 years old shouldn't be influencing our government in any way, shape, or form.

Carla - posted on 09/22/2012

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I understand, April, completely. Pray for America, honey. I see very scary times coming.

April - posted on 09/22/2012

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I didn't read the posts- but I believe that we as Christians have awful choices on both sides. You've gotta look at what the candidate does and not what he says bc they both say what serves them best and not what they believe. That is why I will be writing in Ron Paul bc we do need to vote our conscience and not party lines.

Katie - posted on 09/19/2012

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In 1972 or 1973 when roe verses wade first went supreme court there 6 republicans and 3 democrats on the bench. 5 of the 6 republicans voted to make abortion legal. 2 of the 3 democrats also voted yes. When it went back in 1993 to be re voted on there were 8 republicans and one democrat on the bench and the democrat voted to get rid of abortion and yet enough republicans voted yes that abortion stayed legal. Republicans have had the majority vote in the supreme court for about 40 years and yet abortion stays legal. So the republican party claims to be pro life when running for president, but their actions say other wise.

Carla - posted on 09/12/2012

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I agree, Linda. I have written, erased, re-written, re-erased a response several times. So I guess my first sentence is all the Lord wants me to write ;)



God bless, hon

Linda - posted on 09/12/2012

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Angela, in my response, I was mainly addressing Mike's second post, which is quite belittling of Christianity and obviously coming from a position of ignorance. I do agree that there is often more than one issue. Personally, I can't find anything to agree with as far as the Democrats in the US go, whether it's foreign policy, economic policy, or social policy. For heaven's sake, they even booed God at their recent convention! However, even if that were not the case, I would have to consider moral issues above economic ones. God does not judge a nation for poverty, but He will judge it for immorality.

Linda - posted on 09/12/2012

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Mike, first of all this is circle of MOMS. Second, this is a Christian group. The Bible is the standard for all truth and knowledge here. Thirdly, you should read the Bible before you try to use it as an example. Adam and Eve did not eat from the Tree of Knowledge, but from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. When they disobeyed God, they learned for the first time what sin is and how it separates us from God.

User - posted on 04/11/2012

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Angela, it is true that no political party or candidate is perfect. However I always make sure I vote, partly out of respect for the many women who suffered and died so that we could have the right to do so.

I am grateful that the UK doesn't have the death penalty, as there have been far too many miscarriages of justice.

Polyleah - posted on 04/09/2012

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Linda, I understand where you are coming from on my death comparison, and I surely did not intend to diminish the life of an innocent child. The death penalty has been a debate in the christian community for years and there are scriptures in both the new and old testament that can be used to support the argument either way. I am one who feels that we should not allow it, mainly because of the many innocent people who are put to death. I understand that the Lord gave authority to the government to judge certain issues, but I also know that the judges are not at all pure at heart themselves. I don't agree with policies to make "sin" easier but I don't feel that many of the policies of our "so called christian" former presidents were the best either. In a perfect country we would have the spirit of the lord to willingly give to people that are less fortunate as Jesus commended, but America is hardly perfect and the same way we were born into sin, this country was started by so called "christians" who built this country on heineous acts and crimes. I think it is sad that a policy would even have to be put into place to force rich people to help poor people, especially in America. Everyone who is poor is not lazy, everyone who is struggling did not overspend or make foolish decisions to put themselves in that situation. I know that God's word is everlasting and has not changed. I continue to pray for God to give me guidance on his word. And contrary to what you believe or have seen, there are many churches that help the poor and do God's will. My church being one of them, we do public feedings every month, just money we take from our offerings to feed people, our church has helped members in need financially and spiritually of course. Many churches in my community help people find jobs, give out scholarship money to highschool grads for college and many other things. We just have an imbalanced portion of poor people vs. rich and too many people need help. We have to get to a point to show compassion and not always assume that everyone just wants a handout. My husband and I have 3 kids, we both have college degrees, one of us on our way to an advanced degree and for years have worked good jobs. My husband who made a six figure income, was laid off two years ago and just went back to work in January. His income was primarily our only source because I had to resign from my job (I made more than him at first) because of chronic asthma with my kids. Luckily because of programs implemented by our current government we did not lose our home. We found ourselves in that category, the people who needed government help. I just want everyone to look at all aspects of what this country needs.

Linda - posted on 04/09/2012

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Polyleah, I agree that we need to look to the whole Bible when it comes to issues. However, I disagree with comparing abortion (the taking of an innocent life which has done no harm) to capital punishment (usually reserved for the most brutal murderers). The Bible supports capital punishment. The state taking a life after a person has been duly convicted of a heinous offense is not equivalent to an individual taking the law into his own hands.



Also, while Jesus instructed the rich to give to the poor, this was ALWAYS directed to individuals. Never did Jesus advocate the state collecting money from the rich and then giving it to the poor. When you have money forcibly taken from you to redistribute to someone else, it is not charity and deserves no merit. On the contrary, Jesus commended those who voluntarily gave, either out of abudance or out of poverty (think the widow who gave a mite). We are encouraged to give with a cheerful heart. I truly believe that Church does not do as much as it used to do in this area because the State has taken that job away from them. Thus, the poor do NOT look to the Church, which can offer them spiritual blessings as well as physical blessings. They instead look to the State, while their spiritual souls suffer.

Megan - posted on 04/08/2012

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Don't turn let your faith determine what party you tend to vote with. Vote for who you think will best lead this country. We need to get out of this mind-set that Christians must vote Republican and those who vote Democrat are not Christian.

Amy - posted on 04/06/2012

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God did not create man with sin...but unfortunately, because of Adam, we all have it in us...It is un-productive to debate how the sin got there. Is it God's fault that we have a sin nature?? No. But yes people are born with that sin nature. Just like a person can be born with the genetic predisposition to being an alcoholic they can be born with the tendencies toward homosexuality...but it is their CHOICES and ACTIONS that decide whether they succumb to sin or are victorious over it! I was born with the predisposition to be an alcholic (It runs strongly in my family through generations) and potentially a liar as my biologic father is a pathologic liar...but my choices and actions are what God will judge, not my genetic markers. I do not get to pass off my guilt of sin to my parents or to God just because I chose to give in to sin.

Karen - posted on 04/05/2012

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Angela,

I am neither smug or self righteous. I simply can not believe that our Creator... who made us male and female, sanctified marriage between one man and one woman, and breathed out His word to us so clearly... would "create" anyone to be homosexual. That would be completely against His own character. He seeks to deliver us from sin, not tempt us with it.



I believe that Satan tempts us all in many ways. It is up to us to either turn away from the temptations or to dwell on those temptations and act on them. I believe that homosexuality is an addiction. Just like any other addiction, it is very difficult to break free from. There are people whom God has freed from this addiction. They are great witnesses. Try researching it on Focus on the Family where I remember hearing their testimonies when they were guests on the radio broadcast.



I'm sorry that you took the scriptures I posted as judgments from me. I am in no position to judge. I merely meant to caution you about watering down or misinterpreting God's word. The consequences for doing that are not good. It is because I care enough about you and your eternital salvation that I bothered to do that at all. In loving others you sometimes need to be tough and say things that are difficult to say. Jesus commanded us to lovingly confront other Christians when they are straying from following Him. If that is unsuccessful, we are to take two or three other Christians with us and confront them again... then the whole church. What you choose to believe is totally up to you... it's your free will. I pray that you ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you, I pray that you choose well.



Linda is right, we shouldn't be getting so far off the original subject. I have said what I needed to say so I will refrain from saying more. Once again, may God bless you and your family.

Respectfully,

Karen

Linda - posted on 04/05/2012

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Karen, that was wonderful. Angela, I also take issue with your exegesis of scripture. I think that when the culture rams something down your throat, as it does in the UK, it is sometimes too easy to accomodate it. That is why American Christianity is fighting this acceptance of homosexuality. However, I believe we are seriously off-topic here. If there is to be a BIBLICAL discussion of homosexuality, it shoulf probably move to another thread. Rosie, I could address all your issues, but I don't think you really want them addressed. With every answer, you come up with 5 more issues. Again, if you have HONEST questions about Christianity, please take them to another thread...and try to limit it to one question per thread so it can be reasonably addressed. You may have abandoned the faith, though I don't think you probably ever really understood it in the first place. I will NEVER stop loving Jesus for all He's done for me, and I would give my life for the cause....since I know where I go when I die!

Karen - posted on 04/05/2012

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Angela,

Thank you for the enlightening facts on King James. That shows how God can use even an unGodly person for His greater purpose.



I've tried presenting facts and graphic photos of abortions to groups of people during speech class, 1st in High School and later in College. I asked if anyone had changed their minds or was considering changing their minds about abortion at the end of each presentation. Not one single person in either group was swayed. Unfortunately, most people in our society want to make their own definition of right and wrong.



You seem to be a good scholar. I'm rather surprised that you are using just two verses in the Bible to form your opinion of whether homosexuality is right or wrong. I learned to interpret scriptures as a group, not individually. That is Luther's way of studying the Bible... find everything that you can find on a subject and study it together, including the verses that come before and after those passages so that you don't take it out of context or draw wrong conclusions from isolated verses.



I strongly (and lovingly) disagree with your interpretation of right and wrong where homosexuality is concerned. Consider how Eve was formed to be Adams partner. How God states that "man shall not lie down with a man" and how even lustful thoughts are sinful. God did not make it natural for anyone to be homosexual. It is our sinful nature that causes us to be curious and to be tempted to do things that God has told us not to do. We can't justify it in God's eyes. Jesus spoke to support only a marriage between a man and a woman. While He didn't speak directly against homosexuality, neither did he refute the passages written in the Old Testament that did so. The arguments for homosexuality are weak and watered down. None of them take into account everything that is written in the Bible about it.



I do not speak in contempt of sinners, because I am one. I only seek to help identify sin as sin, so others can put it aside to become more like Christ Jesus. That is what our journey here on earth is all about... accepting Him as Savior and Lord... then learning to become more like Him... and leading others to Him. If we become believers but then do not become like Jesus, we have become lost somewhere in that journey and have rejected His ways. That is a very dangerous thing to do in regards to our salvation.

Matthew 7:21-23: True and False Disciples

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’



We are also cautioned many times in the Bible to be very careful not to lead others astray. I caution you that by what you have said about homosexuality and nature, you are indeed leading others astray. Read the verses before and after Hebrews 1:26-27 to see what I mean: Romans 1:18-32: God's Wrath Against Mankind:

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.



Add to this the wisdom in:

1 Corinthians 6: 9-20: Avoiding Sexual Sin

Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

You say, “I am allowed to do anything”—but not everything is good for you. And even though “I am allowed to do anything,” I must not become a slave to anything. You say, “Food was made for the stomach, and the stomach for food.” (This is true, though someday God will do away with both of them.) But you can’t say that our bodies were made for sexual immorality. They were made for the Lord, and the Lord cares about our bodies. And God will raise us from the dead by his power, just as he raised our Lord from the dead.

Don’t you realize that your bodies are actually parts of Christ? Should a man take his body, which is part of Christ, and join it to a prostitute? Never! And don’t you realize that if a man joins himself to a prostitute, he becomes one body with her? For the Scriptures say, “The two are united into one.” But the person who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with him.

Run from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. Don’t you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body.



In conclusion:

Hebrews 10:22-30

… let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds, not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching. If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”



Deuteronomy 30:11-20: The Offer of Life or Death:

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, "Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, "Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?" No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.



May God bless you and open you mind and your heart to His truth.

Respectfully and lovingly,

Karen

Carla - posted on 04/05/2012

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Rosie--we are appreciative of your efforts in trying to enlighten us, however, you don't need to worry about me. I came from a background of being an alcoholic and abuse, bad health, you name it, I had it. When I turned my life over to Jesus, He took the rottenness of me and replaced it with His Love.



Are all people Christians just because they say so? No, no more than my saying I'm purple with pink polka dots makes me colorful. True Christians give of themselves to help others. True Christians love their neighbor. I am sorry you have been hurt by those who say they are Christians, but are not.



Everyone has their own opinion, and you have given us yours. Let's get back on topic--which is--should Cherrese feel guilty for her past, the the answer is no. We believe God erases our past, when we ask forgiveness and turn to living a life patterning Jesus.



Wishing everyone a blessed Easter, God bless.

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