1 in 10 Parents don't follow vaccine schedules

Katherine - posted on 10/03/2011 ( 121 moms have responded )

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Re-posted from Strollerderby


A new study by researchers at the University of Michigan concludes that one in ten parents are following an alternative vaccination schedule for their children, forgoing the one recommended by such groups as the American Academy of Pediatrics and the Centers for Disease Control.

The study, published today in Pediatrics, found that parents who prefer not to follow the established schedule for giving children vaccines are primarily either refusing certain vaccines (53%) or delaying certain vaccines until the child is older (55%). A minority (17%) are choosing to skip the shots altogether. Flu shots were the most likely to be delayed or skipped.

The Associated Press reports that even parents who follow the regular schedule are still considering switching to an alternative one:

“Worries about vaccine safety were common even among parents whose kids were fully vaccinated: 1 in 5 among that group said they think delaying shots is safer than the recommended schedule.”

Child health advocates are concerned that those who choose an alternative schedule are putting others at risk. In an interview with USA Today, Douglas Diekema, a doctor and bioethicist at Seattle Children’s Research Institute, outlined some of those concerns, explaining, “Children whose parents opt out of one or more vaccines are 22 times more likely to contract measles and nearly six times more likely to contract whooping cough, according to background research cited in the study. Unvaccinated babies are particulary vulnerable, because newborns are at greater risk of complications from many infections.”

Just last month, the Centers for Disease Control announced that early childhood vaccinations are on the rise. They reported that, “Compared with the previous year, vaccine coverage increased for many vaccine-preventable diseases, including measles, mumps and rubella, rotavirus, pneumococcal disease, hepatitis A, and Haemophilus influenza type B (Hib).” Yet the alternative vaccine schedule, promoted by such well-known physicians as Dr. Robert Sears, has gained popularity.

To learn more about childhood vaccines, visit the CDC or check out USA Today Health reporter Liz Szabo’s piece on 6 myths about vaccines.

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

[deleted account]

Yes, the flu vaccine is just silliness. Tell that to my cousin who lost her 6 year old to the Flu last year because she couldn't get the shot in her area soon enough. It wasn't even bird flu or swine flu or anything special....just plain old flu that her little body just wasn't strong enough to fight off. Almost everyone on Earth knows of a child that died from the flu--this isn't a fluke case or a rarity, it happens a lot.

I followed a delayed schedule when J was little because AT THE TIME research was suggesting that this was the safest compromise between forgoing all vaccinations and getting them all so young. NOW research has shown that delaying vaccinations has no benefit. Honestly, I regret my decision. First off, it was WAY more expensive, Second, he got way more shots than he would have if I had allowed the standard mixed shots, and Third, we missed out on a lot of experiences because those of us choosing a delayed schedule must take special precautions to keep our children away from babies and the elderly, thus spending A LOT of time at home so that we would not infect others on the off chance we were infected, and to protect ourselves from infection.

I respect your right not to vaccinate your child. I will tell you there is no need to wait until after 2 years, but you are free to do so. That said, if you choose not to vaccinate your child until s/he is 2 years, I expect you to respect those too young to be vaccinated and those to elderly to fight off a disease even with a vaccination by keeping your baby AT HOME until she is vaccinated. Both for her protection and theirs. Unvaccinated babies in public do not pose the same thread that unvaccinated toddlers do--toddlers put their hands in their mouths and frequently touch many, many surfaces that cannot be wiped down immediately. This is how disease spreads and we need to be very, very careful with them.

[deleted account]

I followed the British schedule which put me behind. In Britain they don't do as many doses as in the US and they skip some of the shots that are required for public school in Tennessee. I reluctantly agreed to the extra shots required for kindergarten, but we are still delayed on the Hep B and we don't do the flu shot. We also didn't need chicken pox because he got the illness back in the UK.

I know I'll get shot down for this, but I think The US schedule is way OTT. They don't do all these shots back in the UK, but we don't have big problems with these illnesses because their minimalist schedule still prevents them. In my opinion Americans are over medicated for everything and vaccinations are no exception.

Becky - posted on 10/04/2011

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I have been screened for both Hep. A and B, as living in West Africa for many years, I was at higher risk for them. I'm also fully vaccinated against both, and everything else imaginable. :) My husband wasn't screened, that I know of, but has been vaccinated because we went out of the country for our honeymoon. I don't think the vaccine is bad or useless, I just think in our situation, (where I am also a SAHM) it wasn't necessary to give it at birth. Like I said before, if we decide to travel out of the country before the kids reach the age where they would be given it anyway, they will definitely be getting it.

During pregnancy here, women are screened for HIV, measles, rubella, and chicken pox immunity, and syphillis (as well as being screened for syphillis again right after delivery). I think adding screening for Hep. B to that test would be great, especially since the vaccine isn't routinely given at birth in my province.

Becky - posted on 10/04/2011

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I think another reason people choose to space them out is because when you give more than at a time, if the child has a serious reaction to one, you don't know which one he is reacting to. If you only give one at a time, then you know. I can understand that. I still prefer to go with the regular schedule, because I feel that all the vaccines given up to 12 months are for illnesses that are still common enough here(except maybe Diptheria) and potentially serious enough that my children need to be protected. Plus, all those extra visits to space out the vaccines is just a hassle! I hate taking my kids in for shots as it is!

Rebecca, I agree with you on Hep. Since it's not routine here for infants anyway, it wasn't an issue, but if it were, we would probably decline unless we were going to travel overseas or our child had a medical condition that would require blood transfusions. I think it's given in gr. 5 here, but if/when we travel to Africa, we will definitely be getting the boys vaccinated for Hep. A and B, among other things they wouldn't otherwise be vaccinated against.

Maggie - posted on 10/07/2011

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Cathy, you can request the individual shots. They still make them, they would just rather give one shot instead of three so they don't have to have as many visits or shots. You can also request mercury-free vaccines. They exist, they just aren't as shelf-stable so most doctors don't keep them in stock.

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Emma - posted on 06/01/2013

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None of my children have been vaccinated, until the govt of my country ( uk) make it LAW that all children are given a full and comprehensive medical test to make sure there are no underlying health issues before they receive a live virus into their tiny bodes, then they will never be vaccinated.

Statistics show that 98 percent of children who die, or who suffer serious side effects, do so, because they had underlying health conditions when they received the live virus.

Dont these statistics mean anything to the powers that be? all those lives wasted, to save a few bucks, it's disgraceful. The stats are the same for measles, the kids who die from them didn't die from the virus, they died because their underlying health issue couldn't tolerate a virus, this is common sense stuff.

Kudos to all you Mums out there who have questioned these vaccines, this is how our kids should raised to 'question everything'

Lucy - posted on 01/30/2013

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Jen "Evidence?"

For the Pharmaceuticals to be allowed to study their own products gives them a huge conflict of interest. When independent not for profit groups examine the so-called 'studies' it turns out that they are junk science. Like when the independent and internationally renowned Cochrane Collaboration warned that there are no studies showing that the flu vaccines are safe or effective http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases...

"In some cases, convulsions and cases of Guillain Barre Syndrome were dismissed as "coincidental" or caused by other vaccines the children received by the 19 Kaiser Permanente and CDC authors -- nine of whom reported financial ties to flu vaccine manufacturers and all of whom received CDC funding."

"The true effect of the influenza vaccine on health outcomes cannot be identified in this single, flawed study, which should not be used as evidence that influenza vaccine is safe for infants and toddlers or to justify national vaccine policies."

"The report concluded that too few clinical trials have been conducted to prove vaccine safety and current evidence indicates that use of inactivated influenza vaccine has only a modest or no effect on preventing influenza in the children and the elderly."

"the Cochrane Collaboration analysis found that the majority of published influenza vaccine studies were methodologically flawed with selection biases, confounders and heavy reliance on non-randomized studies."

[deleted account]

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, however the vaccine is not safe or effective. It is unlikely the vaccine would have been for the correct strain of influenze and there is only a low chance that it would have successfully created antibodies., etc
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Evidence?

Lucy - posted on 01/28/2013

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Kelly "Yes, the flu vaccine is just silliness. Tell that to my cousin who lost her 6 year old to the Flu last year because she couldn't get the shot in her area soon enough."

I'm sorry to hear about your cousin, however the vaccine is not safe or effective. It is unlikely the vaccine would have been for the correct strain of influenze and there is only a low chance that it would have successfully created antibodies. A child needs to be well nourished to cope well with the flu, studies have shown that a megadose of Vitamin C will soon relive the symptoms.

The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10543...

"CONCLUSION:

Vitamin C in megadoses administered before or after the appearance of cold and flu symptoms relieved and prevented the symptoms in the test population compared with the control group."

Kelly "I followed a delayed schedule when J was little because AT THE TIME research was suggesting that this was the safest compromise between forgoing all vaccinations and getting them all so young. NOW research has shown that delaying vaccinations has no benefit. Honestly, I regret my decision. First off, it was WAY more expensive"

You made a good decision to go with the delayed schedule. Be careful with the research you read which claims to show there is no benefit of delaying vaccinations; it's no more than propaganda/marketing. The pharmaceuticals do not want you delaying, they have no interest in providing you with genuine safety studies.

Kelly "Second, he got way more shots than he would have if I had allowed the standard mixed shots, and Third, we missed out on a lot of experiences because those of us choosing a delayed schedule must take special precautions to keep our children away from babies and the elderly, thus spending A LOT of time at home so that we would not infect others on the off chance we were infected, and to protect ourselves from infection."

The mixed shots cause a lot more vaccine damage, so you've done well to avoid those too. It's possible that you've saved your children's lives or maybe saved them from a lifetime of Diabetes Type 1 or MS. I commend you on your decision, if more people did the same there'd be a lot less vaccine damage in the world. The extra cost was well worth it as the health of your children does not have a price.

Kelly "I respect your right not to vaccinate your child. I will tell you there is no need to wait until after 2 years, but you are free to do so. That said, if you choose not to vaccinate your child until s/he is 2 years, I expect you to respect those too young to be vaccinated and those to elderly to fight off a disease even with a vaccination by keeping your baby AT HOME until she is vaccinated. Both for her protection and theirs. Unvaccinated babies in public do not pose the same thread that unvaccinated toddlers do--toddlers put their hands in their mouths and frequently touch many, many surfaces that cannot be wiped down immediately. This is how disease spreads and we need to be very, very careful with them."

The main reason to hold off until after 2yo is to avoid Cot Death. As for the idea of the unvaccinated putting the vaccinated at risk, this is propaganda which is used to push more people towards getting vaccinated. They do not want unvaccinated people going around, as it is then clear that these people are a lot more healthy than the vaccinated. For example, the Amish do not suffer from Autism, hence the Amish present a huge problem to the Pharmaceuticals, and they will no doubt have a plan in store to eventually push them towards vaccination one way or the other.

Lucy - posted on 01/28/2013

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Sara Gisele "To be honest it worries me every time I give my daughter the shots BUT with that being said, I know "they" can be wrong, but they wouldn't be telling you to get the shots at those time if they didn't have the proof to know that it IS effective and safe at those times."

"They" care about profit Sara, they want to profit first from the vaccine and second from the problems the vaccines can cause; ideally lifelong treatments from their perspective. Diabetes Type 1 is ideal for long-term profit.

Sara Gisele "I think people worry too much about it, and pretend they know more then they do. I did a lot of research and my mind was all jumbled up and I couldn't really make out the facts and the myths."

You have to be careful with your research, as the Pharmaceuticals control the CDC, the WHO and the FDA, so you have to ignore anything information from those sources; it's essentially just marketing. Try to find independent not for profit research. Also do not trust the likes of the BBC and the other mainstream news sources, as they work very closely with the Pharmaceutical-controlled health agencies. Mercola is a site I'd recommend, but try to get as many sources as possible.

Sara Gisele "I decided to get the shots at the scheduled times that were recommended. I don't base my beliefs off of things I know nothing about and most parents do that. They hear one thing and believe it and then they put their children and newborns at risk by not getting the shots."

Unfortunately the 'recommended' schedule is actually one that's designed to boost profit, not safety. It benefits the profits of the Pharmaceuticals to the detriment of your child's health. If you really do want to vaccinate, I'd strongly recommend following the safety tips I posted a little bit earlier in this thread.

Lucy - posted on 01/28/2013

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Jen Kowtalo, you were asking about the Chicken Pox vaccine. The first thing to know about Chicken Pox is that not many people die from it and the ones who do are mainly adults. What is it that kills them? It's actually not the Chicken Pox, it's the fact that they took an Ibuprofen or Aspirin while they had Chicken Pox. People should be educated not to take those drugs if they have Chicken Pox, their should be warnings on the labels but there are not. We do not need a Chicken Pox vaccine to solve this problem, especially as the immunity only lasts for a number of years, meaning that a child who was vaccinated for Chicken Pox is then more likely to end with with Chicken Pox as an adult when their artificial vaccine-induced immunity has run out. This means they are more likely to die from chicken pox, as it is not children who die from chicken pox, but adults.

Another major reason to avoid vaccinating against Chicken Pox is because it is linked to epidemics of Shingles

Why a Shingles Epidemic is Bolting Straight at the U.S.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articl...

Lucy - posted on 01/28/2013

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Now, what's going on with MMR, it turns out we've been lied to by Merck about it's effectiveness, which also means they're likely to have lied about it's safety too. According to two of their former virologists Merck have been defrauding the US by lying about the effectiveness of the MMR vaccine. In their lawsuit they claim they "witnessed firsthand the improper testing and data falsification in which Merck engaged to artificially inflate the vaccine's efficacy findings."

Merck Lawsuit Reignites Vaccine Safety Concerns
"In 2010 two virologists, Stephen Krahling and Joan Wlochowski, filed a lawsuit against their former employer and vaccine manufacturer Merck. The lawsuit, which was unsealed in late June, alleges that Merck defrauded the U.S. for over 10 years by overstating the MMR vaccine’s effectiveness."
Full article here http://www.nvic.org/NVIC-Vaccine-News/Ju...

Lucy - posted on 01/28/2013

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Jen Kowtalo "Any evidence to back this statement, let alone the rest? "

Yes Jen, everything is backed up by good science.

One important thing to realize is that any study which comes from the Pharmaceuticals has to be assumed to be 'Marketing' unless anyone can prove otherwise. They have an embarrassing record of paying for results, while binning any results which don't help them to sell their products. Ideally we need not for profit researchers, such as the internationally renowned Cochrane Collaboration. Here the Cochrane Collaboration warned that there are no studies showing that the flu vaccines are safe or effective http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases... and their analysis found that the majority of published influenza vaccine studies were methodologically flawed with selection biases, confounders and heavy reliance on non-randomized studies. They're saying that the Pharmaceuticals are manipulating their studies to make flu vaccines look safe and effective.

Sara - posted on 01/28/2013

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To be honest it worries me every time I give my daughter the shots BUT with that being said, I know "they" can be wrong, but they wouldn't be telling you to get the shots at those time if they didn't have the proof to know that it IS effective and safe at those times. I think people worry too much about it, and pretend they know more then they do. I did a lot of research and my mind was all jumbled up and I couldn't really make out the facts and the myths. I decided to get the shots at the scheduled times that were recommended. I don't base my beliefs off of things I know nothing about and most parents do that. They hear one thing and believe it and then they put their children and newborns at risk by not getting the shots.

[deleted account]

Also, be selective, Chicken Pox and Flu are obviously silly vaccines just there to make money.

--------
Any evidence to back this statement, let alone the rest?

Lucy - posted on 01/28/2013

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For those who do want to vaccinate their children, the most important rules are:-

1. Wait until after 2 yo i.e. avoid Cot Death
2. Never receive more than 1 vaccine per month
3. Never vaccinate a child who's recently been on a course of antibiotics.
4. Never vaccinate a malnourished or sick child.
5. Avoid MMR and Hep B as these are by far the most dangerous vaccines..

Also, be selective, Chicken Pox and Flu are obviously silly vaccines just there to make money. Carefully research through the vaccines and assess if the risk of the vaccine is greater or less than the risk of the illness.

Brittany - posted on 10/09/2011

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Rebecca,

I am going to send you a message in just a moment about TENS and why I asked.

Angela - posted on 10/09/2011

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Cathy I have to say after all our talks I agree with you to some extent. Like the Chicken Pox vaccine I read the science and it is really a guess as to which is better because Japan and the USA still have to see the long term effects of vaccinating everyone for it. I believe they feel boosters will solve the issues. We will just have to wait and see or maybe having other countries not vaccinate for it helps in some ways IDK. For me it was a choice over here in NL, I choose for it, paid for it and so be it. I would not like to be forced into it or bullied as you say.
So I feel more to the lean of vaccinating but I do feel people have the right to choose them. I am not sure if the governments need to enforce it or not to make some vaccines like polio etc. done.
But over all since all vaccines carry a risk I feel it is up to a parent or individual to take what risk they want.
In the end if I am vaccinated I have low risk to the people I am in contact with who are not vaccinated. But young children are not full vaccinated so I do worry of that.
I definitely look at measles rates for example in my community and area where my young child will be in contact with.
If I lived in the USA with small children I worried of people not vaccinating due to cost ( I have heard this before) and not doing vaccines with out medical supervision or as you sad debunked studies as reason is in my eyes not a good idea and harmful.

Thank you for some enlightment on why some countries like the UK do not vaccinate and some do. I know there is much more to it than what you discussed but it gives me a much broader view.

Angela - posted on 10/08/2011

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I see you point Cathy and I was not trying to play a card, it is just a thought I have and wonder how people feel of it. Sorry if you had to repeat yourself but I apprecitae your reply. It is the only way I can understand your and other's like you point of view.

Angela - posted on 10/08/2011

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I just have to ask however if you child got Rubella for example because you did not vaccinate and you exposed a pregnant women to it and she lost her baby or it had birth defects would you not feel responsible?
Measles too if your child dies or you expose a child and it dies...
To be honest I would feel terrible, so why I choose for it.

The old schedule of vaccinating at older age was good but I think they decided on MMR at an early age to limit exposure to those at higher risk.

April - posted on 10/07/2011

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We did a modified schedule because we were uncomfortable with the number of shots given at once. Twice, our son was supposed to have a group of 5 shots at once. (and here i thought 3 was a lot!) We never allowed him to get more than 2 shots at once. Mostly we stuck with one shot at a time. I like the idea of anti-vax but would never forgo ALL vaccinations. I just couldn't live with myself if my child caught croup and died from it

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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I read that at least in the USA thimerosal was not being used any longer.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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Well Rubella is so you do not expose pregnant women to it, it caused birth defect or death in unborn children, so you may not be at high risk but you can put others at high risk.
Mumps can leave males sterile but death is not likely.

Becky - posted on 10/07/2011

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All childhood vaccines given in Canada are mercury-free. The flu vaccine is not, which is part of the reason we don't get it.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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Maggie can you show me what vaccine is more risk than the side effects.
As far as measeles I really feel you are taking a huge risk HUGE, and you are also putting society at risk.
Now with Chicken pox their is sound science to not do it, in many parts of Europe they feel it is not a good idea for the elderly and adults it. I find the reasoning good, but I choose to get it. But I can't say it is a high risk not to get chicken pox vaccine.
But measles....oh I am sorry but those who do not vaccinate at all not good. If you are someone like Cathy who has children with sensitive immunes systems okay dealy but to not get it is a risk to everyone. I think people in Cathy's posisiton are more rare than not. I think many just get fearful of ingnorant rants, and not facts THAT IS NOT A GOOD REASON NOT TO VACCIANTE AT ALL.
I am delaying some of my daughters vaccines. I think I have good reasons... but to not vaccinate against the biggies....I simply do not agree

Maggie - posted on 10/07/2011

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"It is my strong belief that people not vaccinating due to fear of side effects are ignorant to the potential harm it will do to them their families and society if they do not vaccinate. "

As a parent of two children on delayed immunizations schedules and a friend to many parents who chose not to vaccinate at all I can tell you we have all done our research. Vaccines are not 100% effective and many times the side effects of vaccines are more harmful and more likely than side effects from the disease. Not only that but some side effects haven't been studied or proven 100%. That doesn't mean the vaccine doesn't cause it, it just means that no one has established that vaccines are the cause for absolutely sure. I'd rather take my chances with chicken pox or measles.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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Wow Cathy sorry to hear about the adult dose, I say I agree bullying parents is not the answer.
I read about MMR reaction of measles although rare it is possible because it is a live vaccine. I got it for Claire but she was ill and I did worry but when the measles out break came out in France first ... I was like okay lets do it.
Measles scare the heck out of me, it is a very dangerous disease.

Janice - posted on 10/07/2011

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I'm not sure if this is local or national but their is currently a PSA with a mother in a child's room saying things like "the hardest part is coming home and telling your other children their little brother wont be coming home" At the end it asks everyone to vaccinate their children. The autism debate really did affect vaccine numbers in the US enough that their are PSAs trying to scare parents. And it was even the topic on a popular dr. tv drama last year.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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I think it could help but to be honest if people refuse what can any law do? Why won't they vaccinate is a better question and why are not parents trusting it. Do we need more education outreach so parents can feel comfortable? IDK?

Also I have to state in the USA vaccines like the MMR were in use a good decade or more before the UK introduced it. So I think (just my opinion) that Americans in general are use to vaccines, trust them and thus do them as scheduled but we did have an epidemic a few years back in the states. So maybe there is more to people not doing vaccines than fear of side effects. IDK

"During 1988 through 1990, California experienced its worst measles epidemic in more than a decade, with 16,400 reported cases, 3,390 hospital admissions, and 75 deaths. More than half of the patients were younger than 5 years; the highest incidence was among infants younger than 12 months. The epidemic centered in low-income Hispanic communities in southern and central California. The major cause of the epidemic was low immunization levels among preschool-aged children and young adults. Rates of complications, admission to hospital, and death were surprisingly high. Outbreak control efforts met with indeterminate success. Problems with these efforts included insufficient funding early in the epidemic and disappointing public response to community-based immunization campaigns. The cost of medical care and outbreak control for the epidemic is conservatively estimated at $30.9 million. Unless the level of immunization in preschool-aged children is increased, this type of epidemic will probably recur."



I also read this form 2011 from the BBC web site



"Two doses of the MMR vaccine are required to provide the greatest protection against measles.



HPA figures show that the number of toddlers getting the MMR vaccination is climbing steadily, but is still far from the 95% uptake rate needed to stop the spread of the disease in the community.



In December 2010, 89.4% of two-year-old children in the UK had received their first dose of the MMR vaccine.



For five-year-olds, the uptake rate had risen to 92.8%.



From what I understand one needs 2 vaccinations to get the best protection.



France was really hit to the point some friends of mine changed holiday plans.



In France, the figure of 7,000 cases so far this year already exceeds the 5,090 recorded in the whole of 2010.



The World Health Organization said France was taking immediate steps to control the outbreaks by vaccinating infants at nine months and offering the vaccine to all unimmunised or under-immunised people over that age."



"Other European countries reporting an increase in cases of measles are Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Norway, Romania, the Russian Federation, Sweden and Switzerland."



Claire had her first MMR and my family is all up to date so I am not worried. But I do worry of it for others especially children. It is my strong belief that people not vaccinating due to fear of side effects are ignorant to the potential harm it will do to them their families and society if they do not vaccinate.

I do think some vaccines may be a choice, hep A, B and rotavirus are some... but people really need to know what these disease are, what are the risk and get the facts to protect themselves and society.

Stating things like the USA is OTT etc. is really not true and makes some of these vaccines seem trivial, trivializing these disease can cause a big problem.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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@Becky I think they not so long ago made changes to the Polio Vaccine. This is why I am so confused of it. But over all I will get it for her. FOR SURE, I just want to choose the safest one.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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On the measles epidemic post of mine... I mean to say facing an epidemic. According to medical sources here in EU and UK the UK and parts of W. Europe face an epidemic due to children not getting vaccinated with MMR. At least 95 percent of the UK's population needs to be vaccinated to prevent an epidemic and so far the numbers are well below that. Many are asking if the USA model of making it law to get vaccinated before starting any schools or day care may help the numbers go up.

So I do not think the USA is Over the Top at all as someone stated.



Edit to add it was a mistake when I stated it was an epidemic I clearly wrote facing an epidemic and other post btw. Sometimes I text too fast...sorry for that.



I am only going by the UK and other EU info. Over here in NL we have signs all over asking if one visited the countries that are having these issues. If you did you need to report it before your child is allowed to be seen in the hospital clinics or the GP France and the UK are amongst the highest incidence rates.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2011

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@Becky oh yes do it!!! The children's GI doctor started her right away on them when she was so sick. They really did help. Her poo was like water ...it was awful but after the probiotics it got better and better.

Now I use them just for about 3 weeks during the course of antibiotics and one week after... so depends how long they are on it.

What I did not know is just one course of antibiotics can cause an imbalance of good and bad bacteria in the intestines and gut. This can led to CDiff...

The doctor highly recommended this brand. Culturelle... it is also dariy and gluten free and has one of the probiotics that are esp. helpful for past and present CDiff patients.

Apparently the bacteria can lay dormant in the intestines so once you have it you can get it again easier.

I am glad both our kids are better now!

PM me if you need more suggestions and or help with probiotics, I got loads of info from the GI peds specialist at University of Michigan children's hospital from the USA and here chidlrens hospital Utrecht in the Netherlands. They worked with the USA specialist together over here to help get her better.

Becky - posted on 10/06/2011

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Ahh, looked it up, Polio is combined with the D-Tap and Hib. Weird that I never knew that!
Angela, your poor daughter! I hardly even knew what C-Diff was before Cole got it. Then I started googling it, it is pretty scary stuff! Thanks for the tip about the probiotics. Zach is on antibiotics right now for a chest infection, I am going to go get him some probiotics tomorrow I think!

Stifler's - posted on 10/06/2011

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Ahhh thanks Cathy ! I've been wondering forever since I read the babysitters club as a kid what it was and it's one of those things I never think of googling.

Jodi - posted on 10/06/2011

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"UK 2010 had 330 cases of measles and about 1300 in 2009, which in a population of 65 million is hardly an epidemic."

No, but it potentially COULD be if people didn't vaccinate. That's just common sense.

Janice - posted on 10/06/2011

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My daughter has had all of her vaccinations although some were not on time due to illness - they do not give shots at my ped. office if a child is sick or just getting over an illness. I have a relative in CO and she is against vaccines, she sent me this link http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20... a few months back. It has definitely made me think about a slightly delayed schedule for my son. I absolutely believe in vaccines and would never not do them but if any of my future children has any reaction (even minor) after a vaccine I would start an alt. schedule for sure. My daughter never even had a minor reaction so I'm confident her body can handle the combined vaccines that are currently given.

Tracey - posted on 10/06/2011

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UK 2010 had 330 cases of measles and about 1300 in 2009, which in a population of 65 million is hardly an epidemic.

Angela - posted on 10/06/2011

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Emma got this info for you.
When I was a kid it was called the kissing disease, I had friends who got it, I did not and they were in bed for a few weeks but okay. Their is not any Vaccine for Mono. What do you all call it over there?

Mononucleosis — or "mono" — is an infection that produces flu-like symptoms, and usually goes away on its own in a few weeks with the help of plenty of fluids and rest.

Mono is usually caused by the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), a very common virus that most kids are exposed to at some point while growing up. Infants and young kids infected with EBV usually have very mild symptoms or none at all. But teens and young adults who become infected often develop mono.

Mono is spread through kissing, coughing, sneezing, or any contact with the saliva of someone who has been infected with the virus. (That's how mono got nicknamed "the kissing disease.") It can also be spread through other types of direct contact, like sharing a straw or an eating utensil. Researchers believe that mono may be spread sexually as well.

Angela - posted on 10/06/2011

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Becky Claire got C-Diff also it was really bad. She got it after a course of antibiotics and a few months after coming down with rotavirus.
Claire ended up having to go to childrens hospital with cdiff and the medicine they had to give her was a last resort but it was so strong it could have killed her.
I now always give Claire probiotics while she is on any type of antibiotic.
Claire was deathly ill basically the entire second year of her life. She also got a form of ecoli while having c-diff so it made her very very ill.
Polio Vaccines are still given in Canada and in fact is required by law to go to school in most provinces. It is however not the old oral one anymore. Canada uses the injection and it is not live and I think it is a combined one with others.
The live one actually caused people to get Polio. It is not used by most countries anymore. I am at the moment really confused and worried about the Polio vaccine for Claire, she has allergies to antibiotics and I do not want her getting the live vaccine. When I ask about it over here I get all kinds of different answers.
I do plan to get her a polio vaccine but I may go off schedule I just want to be sure I feel good of the vaccine.
I am pro vaccine but I encourage people to get the facts and when all the MMR scare came down I started to do my research when I was pregnant with Claire. I was scared. I learend a lot about vaccines. It is politics, economy and world wide optimal health that feeds the vaccination program. The polio vaccine is actually an example of that. There were two type due to competition.
Sorry rambling on here... but I read that Polio cases do only exists in a few countries. But it is said any child not vaccinated is at risk do to travel etc. The goal it to eradicated Polio like they did small pox.

Stifler's - posted on 10/06/2011

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I have an irrelevant question for those in the States... what is mononucleosis? Is there a different name for it in Australia because I've never known anyone to get it.

Becky - posted on 10/06/2011

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Do they still give Polio in Canada? I can remember getting it as a child - the Salk oral vaccine - but I know for sure the oral wasn't given to my boys and I don't think it was in any of the other vaccines they got. Is it given at an older age?

Becky - posted on 10/06/2011

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My son was tested for Rotavirus when he had bad diarreah too. Turned out he had C Diff, which was much more surprising considering he didn't have the normal risk factors for it (hospitalization or antibiotic use). Fortunately, he recovered on his own, because it can end up being very serious. And there's no vaccine for it.

Angela - posted on 10/05/2011

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Sorry I am not familiar with Canada's system so I will say the CPS recommends it, not offers it.
I want to say you are right, the rotavirus vaccine is not on many schedules nor is hep B and Chicken pox, but that does not mean one should not look to see if the vaccine is right for them or their family that is all I am saying. I do not think you are taking a huge risk if you do not get it to be honest. Unless you live in a third world country or have immune issue. Same with hep A, not a huge risk but you can get sick for like 2 months no thanks and personally if you work in the food or medical service countries should make you do it.
Just because a country does not offer a vaccine does not mean it is not beneficial, it may mean they had to weight out the risk over the cost. I certainly think economics play a big role.
Over here in The Netherlands Hep B is not offered, can't even get it, except a travel clinic. Chickenpox/shingles can't get it at all, had to go to Germany. The live polo vaccine they give here is linked to far more side effects and was banned in the USA I won't be using that and may go off schedule until I find a country close by that does.

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

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The CPS does not offer vaccines. They are simply the professional body of pediatricians, and all they can do is make recommendations. Those recommendations do not even have to be followed by its own members. It is still not on our provincial list and there are no plans to place it there that I've heard of. I personally do not think that 14 percent of kids who get an illness needing to see a doctor is a particularly high rate at all. Half the people take their kid to the doctor for the sniffles. I realize that having had a bad experience with this, you are obviously going to be much more concerned about it. I just do not see this being a major health risk to my child necessitating vacination, and apparently our health services, my doctor, and the people in this field locally would agree. Hopefully I am correct.

I do agree with you about Hep B being an important vaccine. I find it rather surprising that it is not commonly given in some places, but perhaps there are good reasons for that, I don't know. It is part of the regular schedule here and my daughter received it.

Angela - posted on 10/05/2011

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I know it is a newer vaccine, in fact the older one had some issues if I am not mistaken. The new one has been so far deemed safe for the past couple years.

I never would tell you it is necessary nor did I tell anyone else so. I said I wished I had the option for it before my Claire got ill with it. I did not get her the vaccine because it was not on the schedule and I overlooked it. I also was not really aware of it until after she got ill. I stated in retrospect I would have gotten it. That is for me

The only vaccine I stated I felt everyone should get that is not routine is Hep B.

From you post however it seems the CPS is know offering it since last year. 14 percent is high and no I am not surprised you did not hear of it but again even if you do not hear of it or someone getting it as you stated is not in my opinion a good reason to automatically not get the vaccine.

Edit to add, I want to clarify that when I stated you probably did not know someone had it, is because not all people know they have it and I am surprised that they test all people with symptoms of it but you have to admit the leading cause of diarrhea and vomiting it pretty significant. Thus why I made my statement. Did not mean for it to sound condescending if it did sorry.

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

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It is not on the schedule here. At all. It is not even offered as an additional alternative outside of travel medical clinics. Not a single medical professional I know, including my aunt, whom as I mentioned earlier, works for the BC Centre for Disease Control as a nurse, thinks it is at all necessary. None of the vaccine treatments were approved by the federal government for use here until the end of 2008/2009. Our Canadian Pediatric Society did not recommend the usage of the vaccine until the end of 2010. From their website:

"The CPS is also calling for public funding of the vaccine, which is not currently covered by provincial or territorial health plans.

Rotavirus is the most common cause of serious diarrhea in babies and young children, and children under 2 years are most at risk of getting very sick. About 14 per cent of children with the virus will see a health professional or visit a hospital.

“At present, more than 500 to 600 children accross Canada need to be hospitalized annually,”


So really, not all that surprising that I've never heard of anyone being hospitalized for it. And yes, here they do test for it in all pediatric patients with symptoms. My own daughter has been tested, she had food poisoning.

Angela - posted on 10/05/2011

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Johnny just because you have not heard of it... they do not test everyone for it even if they are treated and have the symptoms does not mean it is not there.

The fact is most adults have had the virus unless immunized.

I will post this again

Rotavirus was also the leading cause of severe diarrhea in U.S. infants and young children before rotavirus vaccine was introduced for U.S. infants in 2006. Prior to that, almost all children in the United States were infected with rotavirus before their 5th birthday. Each year in the United States in the pre-vaccine period, rotavirus was responsible for more than 400,000 doctor visits; more than 200,000 emergency room visits; 55,000 to 70,000 hospitalizations; and 20 to 60 deaths in children younger than 5 years of age.

This is just the stats for the USA, so I highly doubt you do not know someone who has had it and needed hospitalization the fact is you just did not know it was the rotavirus.

Now if you want to vaccinate or not it is your choice and I by no means feel I should tell you what to do, but I want the real facts out there for others who are trying to decide what is best for them.



The weather is not a reason given anywhere to not vaccinate unless you have no shelter.

Because you never heard of anyone having it is not a reason not to vaccinate. I don't know anyone who has had polio, or measles and I choose to vaccinate for those.

Angela - posted on 10/05/2011

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Cathy the only places where heat will be a factor is in impoverished nations with out sanitary water etc. Australia, or tropical climates in North American, etc; The warm weather is not going to impact the dehydration as much as the loss of body fluids due to vomiting and diarrhea. So by living in a climate that does not get so warm is not any reason to think a small child under 5 should not get vaccinated. That is all I am going to say on that.

I remember very clearly Parts of Europe and the UK were facing a measle epidemic in fact ther were signs in our doctor's office of it and at our hospital here in The Netherlands.

I am aware it is a part of the schedule in the UK .

I did a quick google and found this article so it seem it is still a problem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-1356176...



Edit to add this link too

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

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I have to second what Cathy said about rotavirus. I do not know about Canadians in other regions, but I have never heard of anyone being hospitalized for this ever. We do have plenty of hositalizations for the flu, which is why the vaccine is so strongly encouraged, particularly for older folks in the seasonal flu risk group, but rotavirus just is not something that people get all that ill from. I would only consider the vaccine if I was going to be spending time in a higher risk region.

Angela - posted on 10/05/2011

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Variation among vaccine schedules

Vaccine schedules vary from country to country and sometimes even within countries. These differences can include which vaccines are recommended, who should get them, when they are given, and how many doses are needed. There are several reasons for this variation:
Why are different vaccines recommended?

Economics – Because some countries cannot afford to give all vaccines to their at-risk populations, they must choose which diseases are most important to prevent through immunizations.
Rates of disease – Because a disease may be an imminent threat in one place, but a minor threat elsewhere, different vaccines may be used routinely in different places. For example, because Japanese encephalitis virus (JEV) is not common in the U.S., it is not a routinely recommended vaccine. However, travelers who may be at risk of infection with JEV while traveling may be recommended to get the vaccine.

It has nothing to do with one country being over the top vs not. It is about money and needs.

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