A child expelled from school because parents are gay

Iris - posted on 03/12/2010 ( 65 moms have responded )

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BOULDER, Colo. — A Catholic school in Colorado is kicking out a preschooler because the child's parents are lesbians.



The child will not be allowed to re-enroll next year at Sacred Heart of Jesus Catholic School. The Denver Archdiocese posted a statement Friday that the parents are "living in open discord with Catholic teaching."



The statement says students in Catholic schools are expected to have parents who abide by policies of the school and church. The Archdiocese said students with gay parents in Catholic schools would become "confused."



The school's decision was first reported Friday by KUSA-TV in Denver.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/05...



What is your opinion on this?

What about parents that have been divorced or had a child out of wedlock? Should their children get to stay in school?



I think that if you can be expelled for your parents "sins" most of the school would be empty and home schooling would be come very popular. I've never considered homosexuality a sin and I never will. But even if I did, how could that justify kicking a pure innocent preschooler out? And how can it be justified that this particular "sin" is worth more punishment then others?

The words, hypocritical, bigotry, discrimination and prejudice are ringing in my ears right now.

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Here is my problem with it...
Jesus Christ preached a message of love. Yes, there are things He wouldn't condone because they were sin, but He also refused to stone an adulteress caught in the act.

I had a friend in high school that was expelled from her Christian school because she got pregnant her junior year. So, let's throw a young girl out of the Christian school when she needs help the most?

I feel the same about this situation. I wish we, as Christians, would reach out to people instead of "kick them out" for sins. I was snippy with my husband this morning. Might as well toss me out too. That is also a sin.

I'm so glad Jesus is about love and forgiveness or we would all be in a lot of trouble.

Esther - posted on 03/12/2010

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I may shock some people with my opinion on this, but I think the school is well within its rights. Of course I disagree with their opinion on homosexuality, and I think their picking and choosing which sins are acceptable and which ones aren't is shady at best (but this hypocrisy is not exclusive to the Catholic church), but I am a strong supporter of religious freedom too, and since this is a private, religious institution, they have every right to run it in accordance with their beliefs, including frowning on homosexuality and expelling a student for that reason. It's the same as my strong belief that no church should ever be forced to accept homosexuals into their congregation, let alone bless their marriages. I do of course hope that one day they will come to see what I consider the error of their ways and take a more enlightened view of this and live more in line with the "love thy neighbor" part of Jesus teachings, but it will have to be voluntary, not mandated.

Mary - posted on 03/14/2010

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Ok, again, I am far from the best spokesperson for the Catholic Church, and I know that one of the liberal world's favorite pastimes is having a go at it, and picking apart it's idiosyncrasies. There are many, I know...but, they exist in EVERY organized religion. The Catholic Church is just an easier target, because of it's size, and enormous presence and impact on western civilization. I myself take issue with MANY of it's social policies (birth control, and anti ART in particular), and have never subscribed to the notion of the infallibility of the Pope. Funnily enough, my positions on this, and many other social issues, were largely influenced by the SSND's who taught me in high school...a rather progressive, intelligent group of Catholic nuns! I admit, the men in Rome should take a page from these gals...the were, and remain, the embodiment of what Catholicism (and Christianity) SHOULD be. But, alas, most organized religions were founded by, and continue to be run by men...and we all know how they tend to muck things up!



What I have found, at least in the states, is that the dioceses vary widely in their social practices, dependent upon location, and the political/social make-up of it's parishioners. For example, I grew up, and remain in Baltimore...a more liberal and democratic area. As a result, the priests, bishops and parishes as a whole tend to be a lot more liberal than say, Northern VA where my sister lives. It's not that they totally ignore the stricter social policies of the Vatican...things are just a bit more relaxed, a lot less judgemental, and much more accepting. We are all taught the Church's official teachings...and then shown what "love thy neighbor" REALLY means when put into practice. Within my parish (and most of those around me, except for a selected few), the child of a homosexual couple would NOT be refused at the parish school. And as for inter-faith marriages? A non-issue...it's actually something my pastor seems to specialize in...he often travels out-of-state to perform these ceremonies for couples who live in more conservative areas where the local priest refuses. My first husband, btw, was NOT Catholic, and there was nothing special required of us to get married within the Church, nor was converting ever suggested. My sister's parish, on the other hand, is beyond conservative (it honestly seems like a different religion altogether to me)...but then again, the area she lives in is also vehemently conservative...so it meets the need of it's parishioners.



I just want to point out to some of my more liberal friends that slamming the Catholic Church as a whole would for the sins of individuals is akin to conservatives assuming that ALL homosexuals are promiscuous deviants. Are there plenty of examples of this within the gay community? Absolutely! But I am not so ignorant as to assume that this lifestyle or mindset is true of ALL gays...many are normal, decent, loving humans, or to judge all homosexuals based on some of the more deplorable actions of a those sensationalized stories that have appeared in the news over the years (and there are many). Or is the Catholic Church just more deserving of judgemental assumptions and generalizations in your books? Yes, there have been some deplorable policies and actions by both individuals and the higher-ups...BUT, they HAVE recognized and acknowledged their egregious fuck-ups with regards to this, and this is not soemthing it either tolerates, or attempts to hide any longer. But, I guess for many of you, THIS group is not capable of change, and has no redeeming qualities.

Kelly - posted on 03/13/2010

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Thank you Mary, that is exactly what I was referring to. :-) Most Catholics don't have blatent hatred for homosexuals, and I know its hard for some of you to wrap your heads around, but there are some homosexual Catholics out there. (And no, I am not referring to the Priests.) What I find offensive, is the fact that some of you see absolutely no problem religion bashing. This time its Catholics, in the past its been Mormons, and others. You would all be up in arms if I or anyone else started gay bashing, race bashing etc. but see absolutely nothing wrong with bashing people that you don't agree with.

All of us sin, no one is perfect. I think the Church was doing these kids a service. They were looking out for the best interest of the children. A big part of CATHOLIC SCHOOL is that you are taught and exposed to the CATHOLIC FAITH. What good would it do to have these poor kids confused by the fact that the Church believes gay marriage goes against God's will? Because that is what they actually said. Not we hate gays, not their mother's are going to burn in hell. A lot of people that are not Catholic don't believe in gay marriage. Get over it. Sharon, I am not really upset by what you said, I know you thought you were being cute. But come on. Pedophiles in the Church is getting quite old, and as far as the KKK remark...... shows your ignorance there. The KKK has long hated Catholics and the church for many reasons, one being that the Church accepts ALL people.

Kelly - posted on 03/13/2010

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I think a lot of you ladies are being hypocritical on this issue. The issue of "church and state" is a two way street. Just as you don't want religion in any facet of public life or schools, a religious school has the right to do what they want when it comes to admission. While I may not necessarily agree with the decision, they have every right to do it. And those of you who keep bringing up the "pedophile priest" issue are just wrong. The Church didn't condone the actions, and excommunicated several. There are predators in every walk of life. Teachers, coaches, scout leaders, etc. Are you going to bring up those every time there is an issue with a t-ball team? Of course not. As far as why they were admitted in the first place, we don't know the whole back story. Was the family up front with the school? I doubt it. A couple relevant quotes:

"If a child of gay parents comes to our school, and we teach that gay marriage is against the will of God, then the child will think that we are saying their parents are bad," Father Breslin said. "We don't want to put any child in that tough position — nor do we want to put the parents, or the teachers, at odds with the teachings of the Catholic Church."

He also asked why the lesbian couple would want to put their children in such a position.

"Why would good parents want their children to learn something they don't believe in?" Father Breslin said. "It doesn't make any sense. There are so many schools in Boulder that see the meaning of sexuality in an entirely different way than the Catholic Church does. Why not send their children there?"

In his column, Archbishop Chaput said that children from divorced and non-Catholic families are welcome "so long as their parents support the Catholic mission of the school and do not offer a serious counter-witness to that mission in their actions."

As a side note, my daughter attends Catholic School. It is important to my husband and myself that she receive spiritual education along with excellent academics. We believe that a lot has changed since we were school age, and that it is a valuable thing for her to have. Yes, we do attend Mass most every week, because it is important to us, not because the school forces us to. Yes, we pray before we go to bed. God is a big part of our life, and just as some of you shouldn't have to defend your lack of faith, I shouldn't have to defend my faith. It doesn't make us racist, bigoted, or anti- anything. Many of you know from my past posts where I stand on Homosexuality. My daughter is not being taught to hate anyone. I just think it is disgusting that some (not saying any of you women here) can justify islamic fanaticism, but condemn Christianity for beliefs held.

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Charlene - posted on 03/16/2010

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What I don't get about this whole thing is, why would you want to send your kids to a school that is basically going to be teaching your children that their parents are 'wrong' and living in sin?

Wouldn't that confuse the hell out of a child?

I'm not saying I agree with this school, just that if it were my children, I wouldn't want to send them somewhere that would teach them that what their parents are doing is 'wrong'. I'd rather send them to a different school and teach them about their religion at home.



On the other hand though.. what about all the other 'sinning' parents? Lying is a sin, sex outside of marriage is a sin, cheating is a sin etc.. so who is deciding which sins they overlook?



I don't know.. this whole thing just boggles me.

Johnny - posted on 03/16/2010

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From CNN:

A lesbian couple whose children were expelled from a Catholic school in Boulder, Colorado, expressed their dismay Monday, but held steadfast to their faith.

In a written statement, the women, who chose not to reveal their identities, described themselves as normal, hard-working people with a nice house and a dog - and as Catholics.

"When we were allowed to have our children baptized ... we made a promise
to raise our children in the Catholic faith," they said. "We now feel like our attempts at fulfilling this promise are being undermined by the Church itself.

"Perhaps our biggest objection to the school's decision is that we think that it is wrong to punish a child for who the child's parents are. We do not think that this reflects what Jesus would have done."

The Archdiocese of Denver, Colorado, recently defended its decision not to re-enroll the couple's two children in the Sacred Heart of Jesus School next year because their parents are lesbians.

"The Church does not claim that people with a homosexual orientation are 'bad,' or that their children are less loved by God," Archbishop Charles J. Chaput wrote in an article published in the Denver Catholic Register.

"Quite the opposite. But what the Church does teach is that sexual intimacy by anyone outside marriage is wrong; that marriage is a sacramental covenant; and that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman. These beliefs are central to a Catholic understanding of human nature, family and happiness, and the organization of society. The Church cannot change these teachings because, in the faith of Catholics, they are the teachings of Jesus Christ."


So it seems the parents are Catholics. And the church allowed them to baptize their children. I guess it is easy for the priests to kick out the children of homosexuals because there just aren't that many wanting to send their kids to Catholic school. And it makes a nice loud statement about how they feel about homosexuality. But if they really practiced what they preached, "sexual intimacy by anyone outside marriage is wrong; that marriage is a sacramental covenant; and that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman" I suspect that the preschool would have a far smaller enrollment. I'm waiting until the Catholic church bans the kids whose fathers have cheated on their mothers. Then perhaps I won't be left with the impression that the Catholic church just enjoys hating gays.

Rosie - posted on 03/15/2010

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i feel it's extremely hypocritical to pick and choose which sins are greater, and therefore worthy of kicking a child out of school. i do feel it's within their rights however to object to homosexuality, and to not want it being exposed to other children. but unless they start kicking all the kids with single parents out of the school as well, they might as well fork over some money to these parents, cause i think they should sue the crap out of them.
as for the pedophilia aspect of the church, i obviously know that not everybody that is catholic is a pedofile, but the church knew about it and decided to sweep it under the rug, and make some huge blanket statement about how they don't condone it? please, that's my problem with it. don't try to hide it, and then when it gets out act like you were a fucking saint and say it's just horrendous. give me a break.

Krista - posted on 03/15/2010

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"Im going to do some digging and see if there is any articles about parents of divorce, pre-marital children, and other 'sinners' - to see if there are any similar cases, but involving another 'sin'."

That's exactly the crux of the issue. Their statements says that the parents are "living in open discord with Catholic teaching", so unless they're also booting out students whose parents commit other sins, then they really don't have much of a leg to stand on, do they?

Plus, there IS the whole issue that they're making the child pay for the "sins" of the parents, which is really quite unfair of them.

Like I said -- they're a private school, so they can kick out whoever they choose (and I'm sure they covered this in the paperwork saying that a student can be expelled at the school's discretion). But the fact still remains that they were jerks to do so.

Veronica - posted on 03/15/2010

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Interesting... First and foremost - I will say that I do disagree that they are expelling an innocent child from school - based on her parents sexual preference. I still am not in agreeance with homo. - however, this is really overboard and rediculous.

The main thing I can understand is the stance that the Catholic Church has. And Im getting very sick and tired of people saying stuff like, 'times change' -- the times may have changed - but the Bible and God's Word has not changed people. There is no 'time' with God - his Word and Law will remain forever - when all is stripped from this earth - the only thing that will remain will be God and his Word.

As for the pedophile priests -- Im sure there are just as bad of crime in other organized religions, and we obv. know that there are other people in 'high society' with skeletons in their closets too. Im just as horrified by all the evilness myself -- but now people are stereotyping and that is wrong. Regardless if it was the Pope, or a lowly minister -- just because they are supposed to be regarded as a person of God - does NOT mean they are perfect - they, like the rest of us, and human too, and will also falter.

The Catholic Church gets attacked the most, because we have stood our ground forever -- we have not fallin into what everyone else is doing, or what everyone else thinks we should do, etc. The politics of the church is what is messed up. As for the money part - i haven't heard of any Catholic church that made you pay any money. Sure they send the collection basket around during Mass - but there isn't a set amount you have to pay - and not everyone puts money in there either. Ive heard of other churches/religions that make you give them your financial info. and determine what % you have to pay to the church out of that.

Ok - so getting back to the main topic -- as much as i disagree with the expelling of the child -- I also can understand that in the contract of the school they specifically state that any parent not abiding by the policies of the church will result in some form of action with the students enrollment at the school. So - they are within their rights.

Im going to do some digging and see if there is any articles about parents of divorce, pre-marital children, and other 'sinners' - to see if there are any similar cases, but involving another 'sin'.

Esther - posted on 03/14/2010

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I just wanted to respond to those posters who wondered why this couple would have put their daughter in a catholic school in the first place. I have to say, I can imagine why. First of all, the public schools in their area might be horrible and they want a first class education for their child. Second, there is a very real chance that one or both moms were raised catholic and despite the official church stance on homosexuality, still feel "catholic". Just as Mary said she feels catholic culturally more so than religiously. Even religiously, they might still identify with the church but disagree with them on this issue. Just as MANY Catholics disagree with (and ignore) the official church stance on birth control etc. They might have hoped that the Catholics running this particular school would be more liberally inclined and be able to look past the homosexuality issue. I just think it's sad that they weren't able to look past it. Sad, but within their rights.

Lindsey - posted on 03/14/2010

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It's just WRONG!! Like you stated, it's NOT the childs fault what decisions their parents make, and he/she should not be punished for them! It's really SAD that it's 2010 and people are still so close minded and ignorant!!

Kelly - posted on 03/14/2010

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Sorry to be late, we just got back from Mass :-) Dana you didn't offend me either. I, like Mary am just tired of the whole faith being lumped in with the bad actions of a few and those who attempted to shield their actions. Even though my husband and I move around a lot, we have had nothing but acceptance and good interactions with every parish we have been a part of. I thought the message today at Mass was so relevent, it was the belief that God loves us all, regardless of the sin, and it is wrong for us to turn our backs on anyone no matter how big the sin. The priest ended it with "love is not earned, it is freely given." I would think that resonates with anyone, religious or not.

Quoting Mary:

I think sometimes we ALL forget to not judge any group as a whole based on the more outrageous actions of a few. This is as true for any organized religion as it is for gays, blacks, Muslims or even (my personal favorite) pit bulls! Yes, there a LOT of bigoted, abusive, close-minded priests in this world...but there are just as many, if not more, truly wonderful ones as well. I guess I've been lucky in that almost all of my personal encounters with religious leaders have been nothing but positive.

Once again, she expressed herself perfectly :-) I personally have never run across a bigoted, abusive, or close minded priest. And the Catholic school my daughter attends may be a little more "progressive" (for lack of a better word) than some. They welcomed us with open arms even before they knew we were Catholic. On the enrollment form they do ask for background info (any divorces, etc) but not for exclusion purposes. The only stipulation other than the normal drugs, alcohol, attendance kind of stuff is that families be active participants of the parish. Not exactly hard for us. Non-Catholics are expected to be active participants in their own churches. At the end of the day, its a religious school, so if someone is anti-religion or doesn't follow or believe the ideology that they teach, its probably just not the right place for them.

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OK, now I know an answer regarding the policy of inter-faith marirages + Catholic church. It is a regional policy. Makes more sense to me now. I grew up in central NJ, so yeah, the policies of the church are heavily political in regard to the Catholic church stance on inter-faith marriages for the region, and I get it in order to protect their own faith.

Mary - posted on 03/14/2010

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Oh, Dana, you didn't offend me! I completely understand hostility towards the Church on the topic of the pedophiles...I share that rage. I just get a little tired of the whole body of Catholicism getting attacked in almost EVERY avenue because of it. I do get a little defensive, because for me, being a Catholic, and most especially my 12 years of Catholic school were a wonderful experience, especially high school. I wish that everyone could have shared in the message of tolerance, acceptance, altruism and love that was instilled in me by those nuns. A big part of my liberal leanings were learned from them (and reinforced by my very devout parents) !



I think sometimes we ALL forget to not judge any group as a whole based on the more outrageous actions of a few. This is as true for any organized religion as it is for gays, blacks, Muslims or even (my personal favorite) pit bulls! Yes, there a LOT of bigoted, abusive, close-minded priests in this world...but there are just as many, if not more, truly wonderful ones as well. I guess I've been lucky in that almost all of my personal encounters with religious leaders have been nothing but positive.

Dana - posted on 03/14/2010

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Mary, I'm sorry that I offended you as I'm sure my comment did. I was sickened by the thought of people getting away with molesting children at that moment while posting and I applied it to the whole religion. Sometimes I let my negative feelings get in the way and they pour right out of my mouth. I'm sorry to Kelly and any other Catholics I've offended by my statement.

Mary - posted on 03/14/2010

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Oh, and Sharon (C), I wanted to add...I really do think a lot of things related to inter-faith marriages are regional. I think I've mentioned before that my immediate area (NW of the city) has a very large Jewish population. Here, it's a bigger deal to the Rabbi's (particularly the reformed and orthodox synagogues) that the non-Jewish partner convert in order to raise the children Jewish. I believe that historically, religion for the child was determined by the Jewish faith based on the religion of the mother, since that was the only "reliable" indicator of paternity (pre-DNA, of course). In other words, a child could not be raised in the Jewish faith unless the mother was already Jewish, or had converted. The child of a Gentile mother was not allowed to be raised Jewish by the father, unless she converted. My guess is that this practice is probably become more relaxed over time, and dependent upon the locale...similar to the Catholic Church's relaxation of it's policies on inter-faith marriages as time goes by.

Jackie - posted on 03/14/2010

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I am not catholic but did look into putting my children in to a catholic school because the public school in our area was not even doing a resonable job of teaching my children. When I was speaking to the school officals they made it very clear that I would have to promise to never interfer in their teachings since I am not Catholic. That i was to support their teachings because it is part of the education and that my children would have to attend mass and so forth.



It is the schools right to say who can and can't go. This is not a public school and its not really your right to attend unless you follow their RELIGIOUS rules. We don't have to like it.. and we can bitch about it but no ones basic human rights have been violated here. No ones civil rights have even been violated. We need to realize that we can't change an instiutions views in a few days when they have been around forever. And is not our jobs to do so.

Isobel - posted on 03/13/2010

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yeah, my best friend married her catholic husband in a catholic church and she just had to do the counseling and promise to raise her children as catholic

Johnny - posted on 03/13/2010

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It must depend where it is and what the local church policy is. My girlfriend is getting married in the Catholic church next month to a man who is not a Catholic, was not raised one, and has no plans to convert. He is an atheist. Although I do not know if the church knows that part. And my best friend from childhood was baptized in the church despite the fact that her father was not a Catholic, and her parents were married in the Church as well.

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If the Catholic church is accepting of ALL, then why did the Catholic church refuse to marry my late brother-in-law with my sister? Oh! My sister was not Catholic! My BIL was a Catholic, attended St. John's from K-8, as his siblings. He attended church semi-regularly with his family when he could. When it came down to getting married, he knew there was no chance in hell that the wedding would be in the church. But he did approach his favorite priest and asked to co-officiate the wedding ceremony at a wedding hall, not on church grounds. His favorite priest refused, and the reason he was told was that the Catholic church does not support inter-faith unions, but my sister was more than happy to convert! So please explain how that encompasses ALL faiths? But it got even worse. After my nephew was born my BIL went back to his church and again asked to have his son baptized in the same church he was baptized in. Nope-they would not allow it because they did not recognize my BIL & sister's inter-faith marriage, and then further questioned how they will raise the child Catholic. But again tried to convince my sister to convert. Sad, but I am sure these were not isolated cases.

Iris - posted on 03/13/2010

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I don't understand it either. And that's where I see it as hypocritical, it's like being gay is the ultimate sin and so horrible that a child of such sinners has to pay for it too. So as a private Catholic School you just get to pick and choose what sin is ok to be flexible about and which one is not?

Johnny - posted on 03/13/2010

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I do not understand either. Does the Catholic church have a hierarchy of sins? I mean, I know that there are mortal sins and just regular sins, but is there a ranking within that?

Isobel - posted on 03/13/2010

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so...gay people's kids can't attend church? I'm so confused. and I'm totally not being a smart ass...just trying to understand the logic, that's all

Kelly - posted on 03/13/2010

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No Laura, they wouldn't be kicked out. The second marriage may not be recognized by the Church because the first wasn't annulled, but that doesn't mean that they cannot still attend Church. They of course would not be able to marry in the Church, but they wouldn't be stopped at the door and told they couldn't worship.

Kelly - posted on 03/13/2010

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Sharon, the only reason I singled you out was because your post was IMMEDIATELY following Mary's. I guess I assumed that you had read her post and then made your comments anyway. My bad.

I am in no way defending pedophilic priests. What they did was inexcusable and disgusting. There are however, adults in other postions of authority that abuse children, and then use their authority to keep the kids silent. That's like saying all attractive teachers are going to cougar young boys and screw them in their classrooms. Stupid.

Sharon - posted on 03/13/2010

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Gah.. that sounds like all catholics are pedophiles and that isn't what I meant. but I'm tired and I'm done with this. I've never mocked an entire religion. To me, every religion has its positive aspects and many of them have a beauty about them.

Isobel - posted on 03/13/2010

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so if one of the divorced parents remarried...then would their kid be kicked out? that would seem to be flouting their non-catholic views and going against the church.

Kelly - posted on 03/13/2010

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Yes, the pedophile issue was a VERY dark day for the Catholic Church as an entity. It also made quite a few Catholics question their faith I am sure.

As far as the divorce issue, here is one quote that I thought worded it well:

The official position then of the Catholic Church is that marriage is a sacrament that cannot be dissolved. A valid marriage has to endure until one spouse dies. The surviving spouse then is allowed to remarry. The Catholic Church does not grant divorce decrees nor does it recognize divorces issued by other religions or institutions. The Catholic Church can, however, annul a marriage if there is sufficient proof that the marriage was invalid to begin with. Grounds for annulment include being forced to marry someone, not having enough information about that individual – as an example – if the party was an abuser, a convicted rapist and if the individual lied (about wanting children as one example). A marriage can also be annuled by the Catholic Church if the sexual act was not consummated. If Catholics divorce and remarry, they are still welcome to worship but they cannot receive the Holy Eucharist.

The last sentence especially is the relevant one, but I wanted to give you the whole position. If you divorce, you are not kicked out of the church, or suddenly not welcome at mass. So why would your children be kicked out of school? In my earlier post, I had a quote from the Archbishop in Colorado, that kind of re-affirms that point.

Archbishop Chaput said that children from divorced and non-Catholic families are welcome "so long as their parents support the Catholic mission of the school and do not offer a serious counter-witness to that mission in their actions."

I really think its as simple as the fact that the school didn't want these innocent kids exposed to the idea that their household was against God's will because their parents are 2 women living as only a man and wife should live. Whether you agree with that or not, that is the position of the Church, and therefore the school.

Krista - posted on 03/13/2010

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Laura made an excellent point there. Do they screen all of the parents to make sure that none are divorced? That none have stolen? That none have coveted their neighbour's wives? That none have done work on the Sabbath?

It does seem to me that if they're going to punish the child for the parents' "sins", then they're applying it rather unevenly, no?

Sharon - posted on 03/13/2010

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Kelly, I thought you were being cute in singling me out although I wasn't the only one to bring up the pedophilic priests.

Face it, they used their religion as an in to get small children alone and stay in a protected position of authority.

No matter how you spin it, this happened because they are catholic and its disgusting.

Why don't you hear about hundreds of baptist minister pedophile victims? Lutheran? Jewish?

I know you're trying to be smart and all, but really you need to to realise that singling ME out amongst all the commenters was just silly. (said in my best homo mocking lisp) >

Dana - posted on 03/13/2010

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As much as it would be nice to just say it's not all Catholics and move on. The Catholic church did try and hide the actions of these pedophiles and continue to do so by shipping them off somewhere else to serve. I agree it's not all Catholics themselves but it IS the church.

My family on my mother's side is Catholic and I'm sorry but, I was really disturbed by some of the things I've witnessed. I am aware thought that it's not ALL Catholics in that manner either though.

Isobel - posted on 03/13/2010

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I do find it slightly hypocritical, however, that even though they disagree with divorce, children of divorce are accepted...why are the children of one sin accepted and not another?

Karissa - posted on 03/13/2010

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Ester said it perfectly. I too believe that the school was within it's rights. I don't agree with a lot of the Catholic Church doctrine but I do think this is an OK thing to do. With the belief that being homosexual is a sin that you choose to participate in it is only natural and right to be fervent about that view. The church can't say, "It's wrong to do...." and then when they know that someone is actively doing said sin without confronting them is a sin as well. In many churches that is a common practice. If a leader in your church sees or knows that you are doing something that goes against God's teaching it is his responsibility to acknowledge it and help you see your wrong. God is Mercy and Grace and loves and forgives, but when He sees one of His children sinning it hurts Him. It is wrong for you to know that you are sinning and continue in that sin.

Sharon - posted on 03/13/2010

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Sorry Mary my computer is running REALLY slow due to an overload of FB games. I didn't mean to knock the whole Catholic religion. Just the dudes in chage with KKK resembling hats... lol sorry had to get that one in there too. Hubby is catholic, and its a beautiful religion most of the time. I try to acknowledge the positive aspects of it and ignore the ugly parts in my house.

Charlie - posted on 03/13/2010

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I dont agree with their blatant hatred for homosexuality , i feel strongly about any form of intolerance but i do believe that this school does have a say due to their religious status and as a private school are within their rights to expel the student .

As sad as the situation is for the child , perhaps the parents should have thought this one through a little before enrolling their child into a religious school that is notoriously homophobic .

Jess - posted on 03/13/2010

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I don't think there is anything wrong with being gay, but having said that. Why would a gay couple want their child to go to a catholic school, knowing homosexuality is not tolerated there ?

I think this has been a huge error in judgement on the parents behalf. Why shouldn't the church be able to stand up and say "No, this goes against our beliefs"? That is what religion is about, setting boundaries that fellow believer's live by.

If you don't agree with their believe's, don't attend, don't associate yourself with them... and certainly don't put your child into their school !

It would be like me sending my daughter to a scientology school and getting upset when they tell me she shouldn't celebrate christmas ! You wouldn't go to a nudist beach and ask everyone to cover up, because your coming through and you don't want to see anything.

If this was a public school, I would be all up in arms about it, but its not. Its a clearly defined instituation that make no secret their belief's.

Sharon - posted on 03/13/2010

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You're probably right Mary ... but check this? This is a quote from sarah butler...
Uh, just to be clear, lol, I posted mine, read hers later.... lmao.. owning up to my own um words...
"4,988
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yesterday, 7:26 am .Well, if that's how Catholics want to represent themselves...I think it's stupid and wrong, but it's a private school so can discriminate, however lame it is. It would be nice if Catholics felt the same way about Pedophiles in the clergy as they do about gays. Bastards"
I personally feel its true. I don't think the religion, per se, is wrong, but the people running the show .... tsk tsk tsk.....

I didn't read anyones replies, I usually write my replies to the original topic, then go back and read replies and address other issues brought up.

Mary - posted on 03/13/2010

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Sharon, you know I love you, as well as your sharp tongue...but I'm also accustomed to you =)

...I believe (and correct me if I'm wrong) that Kelly was referring to your unmitigated knock at the Catholic Church. I know where you were coming from, but I believe that she may have found that a little unfounded after my post...but I'll let her speak for that herself.

Kelly - posted on 03/13/2010

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Ok Sharon..............was that an attempt at a joke? Cause it wasn't funny, it was insulting.

Sharon - posted on 03/13/2010

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LOL DUH. Its a catholic school. Well known for not tolerating homosexuality (unless its one of their priests practicing it as it pedophilia). They just wanted to stir the shit pot by enrolling their child in this non tolerant school.

Sorry, dems da rules. Their school, their rules, suck it up and move on bitches.

Mary - posted on 03/13/2010

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Okay, I am by no means an upright, practicing Catholic. I am divorced, and remarried outside of the church. I have yet to get around to baptizing my daughter (but I eventually will...I think!). I believe in equal rights, including marriage, for gays. I find the cases of pedophilia propagated by priests, as well as the Church's attempts to hide it simply abhorrent.



But, at the end of the day, I still consider myself a Catholic...even if it is mostly a cultural part of my identity as opposed to a religious one. I have to admit, I get a little sick of the automatic argument of "Oh, they're okay with priests raping little boys, but [insert your argument here] is okay". No, not ALL Catholics, and not ALL priests are okay with those abhorrent actions. You cannot assume that the priests or teachers of THIS school are guilty of those actions. It's akin to assuming that all blond-haired, blue-eyed Germans are Nazi's and hate Jews, or that everyone from West Virginia is a backwards hillbilly who has sex with their siblings.



If you want to slam a particular clergyman, fine. Just please stop lumping ALL priests/nuns/Catholics in with them. Believe it or not, some of them are actually some fine, upstanding, and *gasp* liberal, open-minded people. (my local parish actually has a specific gay ministry that supports it's gay parishioners!)

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OK, let's take the Catholic part out of the equation. It is a private school. As such, they are allowed to admit or deny any student to their school. They are also able to remove any student at any time, for any reason whether that reason is justifiable or not. I may not agree with the school's position, but they were within their rights to do so. Who suffers the most is the child, who may experience continued discrimination as the years go on. If the parents are insistant on a religious education, then they will need to seek another denomination. That is a pure fact. There really is nothing to debate in this situation. School was within their right-like it or not.

Celia - posted on 03/13/2010

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I was raised Catholic so my opinion on this is "Hahahaaa!! Whats new?"
and I agree with Kathy... why did they do such a strange thing as send their child to a catholic school in the first place? How very opressive of such a liberal seeming couple!
I think the school and the faith are off their rocker for their views on homosexuality but there are strange people out there and its best to keep your kids far away from them so altho I think its wrong for the child to be expelled for having homosexual parents, I also feel the school did the child a favor as I went to Catholic school and hated every second of it!! :D

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The school is within its rights, although I have no time for their stance personally - lapsed catholic here! Must admit, I can't understand what possessed these women to send their son to this school in the first place - everyone knows the Catholic's stance on homosexuality!

[deleted account]

Yup-the school is right as a private instituition, they make and break their own rules. I have no clue why these moms didn't look elsewhere for their child's education.



So here is a story on my best friend's experience with the local Catholic school. She wanted her daughter to attend St. James because she was unhappy with the local public school. She is a single mom, and had her daughter out of wedlock-never married, no contact with the father. Well, the catholic church insisted she needed to become a Catholic, go through all of the sacraments, and fully convert. She thought it was a good thing for her to support and started to be all into God and everything. It was a positive thing in her life at the time. But, when it boiled down to the MONEY and she didn't have enough for the collection plate, and worked on Sunday instead of church and prayer, and as a working mom she didn't attend as many school functions (but Grandma went), and when the other happy-go-lucky SAHM made her feel like shit, she realized this was not the best setting. She said she constantly felt lesser than others as a single mom and criticized, felt like an outcast. She is not sorry that her daughter attended K-2 at the Catholic school, but my friend personally has zero connction to organized religion.

Iris - posted on 03/12/2010

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I agree with you Krista. Also this child hasn't committed any sin, the parents did according to the school. What if Uncle Joe a close family member that frequently comes and picks up a child is gay? Or an older brother/sister? Where should the line be drawn?
While I understand when some of you say, take the kid out of this school because it would because it would only make it harder on the child staying there, it doesn't make the schools actions right. And why just this sin while the others are ignored? Yes, it is a private school but it doesn't make it right.

Krista - posted on 03/12/2010

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I agree with the others that yes, as a private school, they have the right to kick out whomever they please.

This really illustrates the difference, however, between HAVING a right, and BEING right, doesn't it?

Johnny - posted on 03/12/2010

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I agree with the majority in this post. Even though I think that the Catholic churches position on homosexuality is ignorant and bigoted, everyone has the right to practice their faith the way that they see fit. A church school is a place for those sorts of values to be handed down, and it is the right of the church to control what type of people attend it's school. Although I do wonder if they also ban children of divorce? I also do not understand why same-sex parents would wish to have their child exposed to that kind of thinking at such an early juncture in his/her life. It seems like a large burden for a 3 year old to take on, constantly being told your parents are offensive to god. Yikes!

Jocelyn - posted on 03/12/2010

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I think that the school was well withing it's rights. It was a Catholic school, not a public school. If it was a public school I would be all up in arms about it, but as it stands, it was a private religious school, and therefore they have every right to run it however they want. But I don't agree with their decision. If the bastard children get to go to the school, then why not the children of a gay couple? But religious institutions are pretty well known for their hypocrisy.

Christy - posted on 03/12/2010

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i think it is completely wrong that they would expel a child for the choices their parents make however they are well within their rights to do so. what i can't understand is why the school accepted the child in the first place. obviously the intolerance of gays isn't a new thing in the Catholic religion so if they would have simply denied the child's application no one would have to deal with what's going on now. i also don't understand why the parents wanted to send their child to a Catholic school. of course the children in class probably won't treat their kid differently but i can't say the same about the staff. sure these people might want their child to be educated in a private school but i don't think they took into consideration the fact that the teachers probably would have treated their child differently simply because of it's family situation.

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Despite my on-going frustration with organized religion I believe the school was within their rights!

[deleted account]

Lisamarie : " I was always taught that God loves everyone and is there to guide people, God made the world and everyone in it!! That includes Gay, Straight, Black, White, etc. If being gay was a sin why did God create them that way?? "



I totally agree with you but just wanted to clarify something about ur quote......." If being gay was a sin why did God create them that way? " ......although I believe people are born gay, the church does not! They believe it a choice to ' act gay ' !

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