A "natural" C-section.

Sarah - posted on 11/23/2010 ( 39 moms have responded )

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles...



Came across this and thought it was interesting.

Do you think the way C-sections are performed should be looked at and maybe changed?



I actually had a really good experience with my emergency C-section. I got to hold my daughter (albeit upside down! lol) pretty much straight away and I didn't feel like I'd missed out or had any of the experience taken away from me.

I know it's not that way for everyone though. Perhaps something like they're suggesting in the article would help that. (although they do say it wouldn't be suitable for pre-term or breech deliveries)



Also, what are your thoughts on C-sections in general?

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Mary - posted on 11/24/2010

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There are some things in this article that I think are great, and others I find to be a bit unrealistic. Several of the things mentioned are actually pretty much standard in my area, and have been for quite some time. Sarah - I agree - I too find it shocking how long people are saying they had to wait for their babies. That certainly is not the norm where I work - mothers and babies are only kept apart if one of them is truly unstable.

I do want to remind you all of something that I do think is often forgotten when non-medical people critique and discuss c-sections. Yes, it is a birth - but it is ALSO major abdominal surgery, and needs to be respected and treated as such. I'm not sure that many of of you understand that just by having a support person in the room, sterility is being compromised. I'm not against them being there by any means - but throwing paper scrubs over dad over dad is only of minimal help - especially when he often pulls down his mask to talk, and whips out that nasty camera that was at the zoo last week, and the cell phone that has been everywhere and anywhere. And this article suggests leaving her body cavity open even longer??? Perhaps that appeals to some of you, but I'd prefer my OB to get me closed back up ASAP, thank you very much.

I agree that babies, unless truly unstable, should not be whisked away from their mothers, and every attempt should be made to allow for as much contact as possible, as soon as it is possible. I also think that it needs to be remembered that a c-section is SURGERY, and some things cannot, and should not be "tweaked" in an attempt to mimic a vaginal birth.

Sharon - posted on 11/23/2010

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I think those women who had c-sections and whinge about having "lost out" are just pissed about the loss of control over what happens.

All I ever cared about was a safe delivery. I didn't want a c-section, I didn't want an episiotomy. But I accepted the fact that those might need to happen to keep me & my baby safe. If my doctor erred on the side of caution - what of it? I healed didn't I? I had a living healthy baby right?

I know a woman who for medical reasons was terrified of natural childbirth. She & I had the same medical background (damaged backs & pelvis) and same prognosis from our obgyns despite living in different parts of the country. She opted for a scheduled c-section and I opted to see what nature could do. My highrisk doctor wasn't to happy about it so I had two surgical teams on standby. UGH.

If it had to happen - it would have to happen. If my doctor had put her foot down and said "I'm not happy at all about this, I'm really worried about your chances of a safe delivery..." I would have bowed to her greater experience and worries. We very nearly came to that anyway. Especially after I told her about my friend and her opting for a scheduled c-section.

Do I think c-sections are over done? eh maybe a little. Mostly because women are enjoying the predictability of a scheduled c-section versus sitting & waiting for natural labor.

Why do people care so much? It really should be left up to the individual. If you don't like what your doctor has to say - FIND ANOTHER DOCTOR!

I HATE hearing women bitch about their doctors but they make zero effort to get a second or third opinion. If you aren't going to make the effort to get another medical opinion, then STFU! Even if EVERY woman on your discussion forum agreed with you, it won't change your doctors' mind. You need another medical opinion.

Several of my friends opted for scheduled c-sections, several opted for homebirth, midwife attended, no drugs etc, all are perfectly happy with the outcome - their healthy babies.

Mary - posted on 11/24/2010

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Jodi, where I work, we never strap someone's arms down unless they are completely out of control (and that honestly doesn't happen often!). Your OB is right about the breastfeeding thing - it is damned near impossible when you are flat on your back and your belly is wide open. To me, that is just a set up for failure, and most women are so anxious about "getting it right" and seem to put so much stock on that initial latch; it's not not something I personally would want to attempt until I was out of the OR, and a bit less restricted.

I highly recommend you talk to anesthesia AND nursing before your delivery. Your OB can promise you the moon, but IF you need a section, she will be on the other side of that drape, and it will be an anesthesiologist up at your head, calling the shots about what you can and cannot do. Make sure your nurses know what you want; part of their job is to be your advocate!

Sharon - posted on 11/23/2010

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Maybe COMs' should have an informational page - backed with medical research papers for moms who want VBACS or progressive C-sections?

I see the problem - how to change it is an issue.

Geeze its only in recent years that hospitals have been keeping multiple babies in the same isolettes. It used to be they seperated them ASAP, sometimes in seperate rooms.

I was ok with the idea of the lack of contact with my newborn if I were to have a c-section as long as my husband or mother would get that first contact. Its wasn't all about me, it was all about my baby.

Jodi - its AWESOME you worked so proactively for yourself and your babies! Good for you! I love reading stuff like that.

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Melanie - posted on 11/25/2010

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ive had 3 C/S-1 emergency & 2 elective (didnt have a choice but it wasnt life/death situation either) my doctor was the surgeon for all 3 so i felt extremely safe & he made sure to hold bub up so i could see as soon as they were born, my hubby cut all 3 cords, the nurse gave bub a quick wipe down & the 1st & 2nd were wrapped & handed straight to my hubby, the 3rd (&last) was laid on my bare chest still covered in gunk (ick lol) & totally nude :D
so i guess you could say i had the most natural c/section possible...without actually watching (altho i could see the reflection in the doctors glasses & was facinated, but was very glad to have a sheet between me & my belly!!) it was a wonderful experience & altho i would have prefered a "natural" birth the experience i had was the best i couldve hoped for & with the result being 3 gorgeous healthy kids i wouldnt change a thing

[deleted account]

My arms weren't strapped, but I had to hold them straight out like a T. Not sure why, I just followed directions.

Leah - posted on 11/25/2010

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I've had 2 C sections. With my first, she was quite sick from the beginning and didn't get to hold her for a couple of days anyways b/c she had surgery right after being delivered. With my second, however, I had to be put under b/c they couldn't get the spinal, even after 45 minutes of PAINFUL trying. I was quite disappointed b/c I woke up after about an hour and they wouldn't let me see him for 12 hours him being born, regardless of how many times I asked them to bring my son to me :(. It wasn't the c section in general that bothered me, I think it was the hospital and it's ridiculous policy. I never got a straight answer as to why I couldn't see him right away. Even with my daughter, they wheeled me into the NICU right after she was out of surgery to see her, but made me wait for 12 hours to see my perfectly healthy son. If I sound bitter, I am.
But as for C sections, yes they are painful to recover from, but had no problems, my kids are worth the pain. I didn't have a choice in the matter, the doctors wouldn't let me go into labor but I was happy with the procedure and the scar isn't even noticeable.

Stifler's - posted on 11/25/2010

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Yeah local anaesthesia is what I meant lol I've never had one but all the people I know who have have had a huge sheet between their face and abdomen so they can't see anything and haven't had their arms strapped or anything.

Jodi - posted on 11/25/2010

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Emma, when I think of someone "under" anaesthesia, I think of being knocked out cold and that's not the norm here unless it's an emergency c-section. They give you a spinal block or somethign like that so that you're numb from the chest down,b ut still awake. It's my hospital's policy to strap the arms down because it's "natural reaction" fora mother to reach down to touch her newborn, crying infant. So it's a safety precaution I guess from that?
Anyways, Mary, thank you for the tip on the nurses and other staff in the room, I'll be sure to make sure it gets to be a part of my birthing plan that all the staff is "supposed" to read before touching me! lol
Happy Turkey Day Ladies!!!

Stifler's - posted on 11/25/2010

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Me either I didn't think you'd need to be since you would be under anaesthesia :S

Sarah - posted on 11/25/2010

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I'm also shocked that anyone has been strapped down for a C-section!!!
WTF?!?!?!?!
I wonder how different having a C-section is between countries, because I've never heard of anyone being strapped down for one.

[deleted account]

First off, I'm a bit shocked at how long some of you had to wait to hold your babies! Mine were given to me immediatelly (no clean up or anything) and then kinda rubbed down while they were on my chest and the doc finnished up down there. I held my babies for the first 2 hours of their lives with no interruption (then they were taken for a more thorough bath). I didn't think there was any other way... Oh, and my babies were born at two different hospitals, so I was even more convinced that was the "norm"... hmmm... Maybe you should all either give birth in South Lake Tahoe or Sacramento! I preferred Tahoe - gorgeous views out that window and gourmet cooking by one of the chefs for the 5-star restaurant in the casino 30 minutes away! lol...

As for the article, it sounds interesting, but like Jodi's doctor said, I can't see them allowing the mother to be hanging open long enough for the baby to come out slowly. There are so many risks of infections when they do that!

While I am forever grateful I didn't have to have any C-Sections, I just have to agree with Sharon. Of course I would feel a bit jilted if I wasn't the first one to hold my baby, but the importnat part is that my baby is alive and well.

Jodi - posted on 11/24/2010

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Well, I had an appt with my OB today and brought this very topic up since I'm high risk for a non-emergency c-section. What she told me was that no, we could not let the babies come out any slower (both for their health and for increased risk of infection, and honestly, that part doesn't sound so fun anyway!) BUT, she would be willing to let the nurses unstrap my arms after the babies come out so I can hold and kiss them and what not. She said I could attempt to breastfeed, but since I'll be flat on my back, it would be very difficult. That makes me happy!!! Obviously, this is barring any serious complications that would really risk my chidlren's health. Thank you so much for this thread...don't know if I ever would have even thought to ask to have an exception to hospital rules if it hadn't been brought up!!! :)



*edited to add I am still really hoping for a vaginal birth for these little girls, but I also have to be realistic and prepared for other outcomes!!

Sarah - posted on 11/24/2010

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That's a really good point Mary, guess I hadn't thought of the fact that being "open" for longer could cause a risk.

I guess I just feel really sorry for women who had a bad experience with a C-section and seeing this made me think it could be improved somehow. I guess the MAIN thing that hospitals need to address is not letting the Mum hold the baby straight away!! That in itself would probably have made people's experience a lot nicer!

I'm a bit of a freak in the fact I actually "enjoyed" my C-section FAR more than my vaginal birth!! I recovered loads quicker too! Just makes me sad to know that a C-section can be a good experience, and yet so many people feel robbed by having one :(

(Not to say that I think all women should rush out and book a C-section or anything, but I don't think they're the worst thing in the world)

Charlie - posted on 11/24/2010

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how do I feel about C sections ? The two times they said i had to have an emergancy C section I burst into tears , I was so dissapointed luckily both times my boys made a show before they wheeled me off .

[deleted account]

I think it's a little strange that some of you had to wait. With my 1st the put her straight on my belly, 2nd was born at home andhubby caught him so i held him really quickly and 3rd he came out on the bed and they wiped him over as they were handing him to me. The worst part was after they weighed him and all that they took him away while i cleaned up. I hated it not knowing where they had taken him. (They had taken him to the speacial care nursery to watch for signs of low blood sugars). half hour later and i was with him again and he didn't leave my side from then.

Sarah - posted on 11/24/2010

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On the point about it only being for elective C-sections, it could be beneficial to those who are having a repeat C-section, say, if their first was an emergency C-section and they're opting to have a C-section again.

Also, I'm shocked by how long some of you had to wait to hold your babies!!
Shia was quickly cleaned up (at my request, took all of one minute) and then I held her while I was being stitched up etc.
Then they took her and weighed her and everything, then we both went recovery together and she was with me from then on.
I don't understand why unless there's something wrong with Mum or baby, that they keep you apart so long. :(
It's sad.

Stifler's - posted on 11/23/2010

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I was so ignorant about childbirth during my first pregnancy. I was like... give me a c-section and just get the baby out quick. I had no idea how much slower the recovery is or any of that and there was no medical reason for me to have one. Anyway I had a vaginal birth and no stitches and didn't really get the skin to skin/immediate breastfeeding either, I was wearing a shirt and they took the baby away immediately so I could get cleaned up and have a shower because I delivered standing up in the bathroom.

Kate CP - posted on 11/23/2010

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I hope so, too Jodi! I've only ever heard of two or three instances of vaginal multiple births in modern times but it's something that can obviously be done. I hope you get the delivery you're wanting. :/

Jodi - posted on 11/23/2010

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Like I said, I didn't recall it saying it but it could...obviously it did. I guess my point was, I don't see why it couldn't be used for mothers have a medical necessity to have a c-section that is neither elective or purely emergency? I don't know, either way, I'm bringing this issue up with my OB tomorrow and maybe we can at least agree on skin to skin/immediate breastfeeding while I'm being put back together!!! (Cross my fingers!)

Kate CP - posted on 11/23/2010

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Jodi: Very true. The article said, and I quote:

"We describe a technique for straightforward elective caesareans in healthy women with non-compromised singleton fetuses at term. It can be adapted for nonurgent emergency procedures but is not suitable for preterm or breech presentations."

So, pretty much just elective c-sections or for babies that "don't fit".

Jodi - posted on 11/23/2010

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Kate there are times when a c-section is necessary without being an emergency. Such as, doctors often times will tell a mother her baby is too big to "fit" (codswallop if you ask me...but I'm not a doctor!) and pushes a c-section, mother agrees because we trust our doctors. It's not an "emergency", but is considered required without being elective. If a mother has had problems with her blood pressure she may be required to have a c-section before going into labor to reduce her risks of stroke during labor...again, not "emergency, but medically necessary. There is a large grey area between elective and emergency c-sections. If I have to have a c-section, it won't be deemed emergency (hopefully...I guess that could change in a matter of seconds...but so far so good!) but it wouldn't be elective either.
Anyways, I don't recall them saying it was ONLY for elective c-sections, they may have and I jsut don't recall it, if so, then right on! But there is a lot more than just elective and emergency c-sections for the record.

Kate CP - posted on 11/23/2010

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This is only for elective c-sections so I find the whole thing kind of pointless. IF they could find a way to do this for emergency c-sections I'd be gung-ho for it.

[deleted account]

I kept asking for her and they kept saying they were cleaning her. For two hours? But like your sister in law, I didn't really know my "rights" if that's what you want to call it. Ah, well that's all in the past. I'm thinking I'll have a doula for this next baby, so hopefully there won't be a repeat of that, even if I do require a c-section. I love my doctor and from what I hear, the hospital is improving their policies. We'll see...

Nikki - posted on 11/23/2010

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Sara that's what I don't understand if you have had a spinal block, why can't you have your baby?? My sister in law had c sections with her first born and then twins after that. Her baby was whisked away and my mother in law was the first to hold him. I would be so pissed, I understand that the safety of mother and baby comes first but come on, she was a first time mum at 17 and didn't really know what she wanted at the time but now looks back on it and is upset that that special time was taken from her. I had strict instructions in my birth plan that if I had to have an emergency c section that no one other than my husband was to see our baby until I had had my first hold. Maybe that's what's missing, today there are so many more c sections being performed maybe as part of the whole process, options need to be discussed with pregnant mother's so that if the unexpected happen they are more emotionally prepared for it and still have some form of control over what happens when/if the baby is safely delivered.

[deleted account]

C-sections are necessary for a lot of mothers and babies, so I'm not going to knock the practice. I had one for my breech baby, but I don't understand why anyone would choose to go that route. I saw my baby for only a minute after she was born, then I didn't get her again for 2 hours. That's what disturbed me the most. I didn't want a c-section, but better that than a dead or injured baby so I got over it. But I didn't understand why I couldn't have her as they were stitching me up or even after I was back in my own room. It took way too long, so yes, I'm in favor of the so-called natural c-section. Though I wouldn't watch.

[deleted account]

Thanks Sharon....I did know that you weren't refering to me necessarily but I felt like I needed to clarify MY first post. I agree with your statement. People's expectations tend to too high sometimes and they wind up being extremely disappointed. I accounted for "the unknown" or "the unexpected" but some people don't.

Becky - posted on 11/23/2010

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I haven`t had a c-section, so maybe I don`t get to have an opinion. But, if I did have to have one, not being able to hold my baby as soon as he/she was born would really bother me - as long as the baby was healthy and I was conscious! So I think immediate skin to skin is a great idea. I've never quite understood why, other than in cases where the baby is in distress or the mother has had to be put under, that isn't done anyways.
I don't think I'd want to watch though!

Nikkole - posted on 11/23/2010

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With my first baby i was 40weeks pregnant one week late from my estimated due date so they induced me on December 31st they gave me pitocin broke my water at 3cm and gave me and epidural then it went south from there.........First the epidural didn't even work the pitocin made labor horrible more painful! Then after 14 hours in labor i only dialated to 4cm then every time i would move my sons heart rate would drop so low it was scary! So they rushed me in the operating room and they thought i was numb since i had an epidural and started cutting on me and i wasnt numb i started screaming in pain they gave me soo much drugs i was out for 4hours it was horrible!!!!!!! With my second it went a lot smoother but i hated having c sections thats why im not having anymore children i dont want to go through it again!!!!

Jessica - posted on 11/23/2010

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I think this is a great idea for women who need c sections. I think it could possibly go along way in helping women feel better about the experience in general, bond with baby, get a good start to breastfeeding. Basically it makes sense to me, to keep things as "normal" as possible as long as its not an emergency situation. Personally, if I need to have one for whatever reason, I would request many of the things described in the article and work with the doctors to make that possible. The idea of a c section terrifies me and for me, that would go a long way towards easing my fears.

I'm curious as to why they say it "wouldn't work" for a breech baby? The pulling the baby out in the specific manner they described, I can understand- it wouldn't be able to happen that way if the baby is coming out butt or feet first. But is there a reason they wouldn't still be able to give you the baby right away?

And the only other issue is, this would obviously only work for pre-planned, non emergency c sections. If there's an emergency or the baby is in distress then obviously they need to move quickly and do whatever they need to do to ensure the baby's safety. And, I don't really "agree with" c sections for non medical reasons, though that's unrelated. But for those women who have no choice but to plan a c section, for whatever reason, I think this sounds like a great idea!

Sharon - posted on 11/23/2010

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DanaM your's is a bit different. And I wasn't very clear. I meant the ones who whined without making the effort to find a doctor that agreed with them.

Emergency c-sections can be traumatic - especially when you have no idea you might need one.

Amanda - posted on 11/23/2010

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i think it's interesting, i would have loved to watch my c-sections, to me it is sooo interesting! however, i wonder if some mothers would be able to handle watching.... because the baby is born through an incision it is a bit messier,
as for the bonding after a c-section.... i had no problems, my husband held the babies by my head while the sewed me up and it was a while before i breastfed them, (not tthe recommended 10 min after birth) but i felt well bonded with them prior to thier births. no matter how "natural" they make a c-section it def. is not ideal but at least they're trying

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Sharon said, "I think those women who had c-sections and whinge about having "lost out" are just pissed about the loss of control over what happens."

I just want to clarify about my above post.....I'm not whining and I was somewhat prepared or at least had considered that a c-section might be necessary. I'm not upset about the fact that I had a c-section but am a little sad that I wasn't able to remain awake during it. If I could have changed it I would have but I'm grateful that Roxanne and I ultimately were ok. Moving forward...

[deleted account]

I had a horrible experience with my c-section. As some of you know the epidural wasn't working properly and they had to put me completely under which meant I didn't get to meet Roxanne until hours after she was born. She was hooked up to tubes and monitors in the NICU and I was wheeled in on my bed, all groggy still and half asleep.

I would have LOVED for it to have been done ANY other way but I try not to dwell on it because I can't change anything. If we decide to have another baby I will be much more prepared.

[deleted account]

I have no problem with c-sections. I don't agree with women requesting them for no medical reason and I think they are used way too often. I no way do I think it could be looked at as natural in anyway though.

Jodi - posted on 11/23/2010

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I don't have a problem with c-sections in general. I think they are WAY overdone, by both the medical field and general society. I do NOT want a c-section, but with twins it's a good possibility. (And yes Sharon, I got second, third, fourth, fifth...I dont' know how many OB's I called and talked to, I picked the doctor who most advocated vaginal birth!) Something like this would make me incredibly happy, for me, the dissatisfying part of c-sections is less HOW they enter the world, but the immediate moments afterwards. A mother is strapped down, unable to see anything, can't cut the cord, skin to skin contact is held off for far too long, breastfeed is held off for far too long, too many other people handle your baby before you do, it's those moments AFTER the delivery of your baby that make me upset just thinking about it! I would have very little problem with a c-section that went as the link described and I think they should at least be an option, if not the norm as c-sections go.

LaCi - posted on 11/23/2010

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I had a great c section. There was a very short delay in being able to hold the baby. I may not have seen my sliced open abdomen, but the one person I heard of that did (by accident) completely freaked out. I had a great c section. My doctor performed it, so I was already in hands I trusted. I was breastfeeding within 15 minutes. I think if women want this sort of option, so be it. I was happy with mine. I didn't need to see the kid come out of a gaping wound. It seems irrelevant to me- my mom had the option but she chose to not see my belly cut open lol. She stayed on my side of the drapes.

Nikki - posted on 11/23/2010

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My midwife told me that for an emergency c section you were put under, which terrified me, I wanted to be the first one to hold my baby. So I think this natural approach is a fantastic idea.

My thoughts on c sections in general is that they have saved so many lives, we really are lucky to live in a time where these medical interventions are available.

Personally the idea of a c section with a spinal makes me wan't to run away, my mum had one with my sister and it didn't work, the doctor didn't believe her when she said she felt everything until she went into shock and almost died on the table.

I find it a little hard to understand women who have elective c sections, but at the same time there was a week during the end of my pregnancy where I was begging my midwife to knock me out because I was terrified at the thought of labour. I got over it though!! Each to their own I suppose.

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