Aaaaarrrgh!!

Leeann - posted on 10/28/2011 ( 24 moms have responded )

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Okay so I was apart of this discussion, and this woman didn't rally do anything to piss me off EXCEPT what she had to say. Personally I find this so offensive, mostly because I am married and should not be denied the act of loving my husband as I see fit! So you make as what she said and why isn't this in the MWNTV category?

Well the reason it isnt over there is because I want to see what you ladies had to think. it has to do with this post. http://www.cafemom.com/group/416/forums/...

now its already been discussed on here and I add my two cents over there. and saw this woman (I wont call her out) she used the "You don't want a baby, keep your legs closed theory" I really hate it when people say this... and my personal op is that women shouldn't have to fear having sex w/ SO or DH or what have you.

What do you all think?

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Nicole - posted on 10/30/2011

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Oh... and these same people shouting "keep your legs closed if you aren't married" are the same ones giving me dirty looks in the grocery store with my four children while wearing my wedding ring and my husband at work! Or saying things, in a very condescending tone, like, "Wow, you have your hands full, don't you?" I absolutely loathe that! I am so tempted to scream when I get asked that! Oh, and you should see the looks that my married friend gets from those same people while out in public with her 7 children! She likes to look at them and say, "Can you believe they are ALL my husband's????" Bwahahaha! My point: people judge all the time what somebody else does with their own reproductive capabilities while knowing they should just mind their own business!

Stifler's - posted on 10/30/2011

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I think that everyone needs to mind their own business over the abortion issue. No one does it for fun. Sex is an important part of a relationship it's not just for procreation.

Becky - posted on 10/30/2011

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I see your point, Jen, and I'm not saying men should legally be able to force a woman to carry to term. I'm just saying that it seems a bit unfair, or a bit of a double standard to say, "He needs to take some responsibility for the pregnancy too" but then when he wants to, to tell him he has no rights.

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Nicole - posted on 10/30/2011

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I agree, Katherine! I joined and spent a whole 5 minutes on CM. The layout stinks. The moms' comments stinks..... CM stinks! LOL



Yeah, I think it is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that abstinence should be used just to avoid pregnancy! Not saying that it doesn't work. Obviously, it does. I just think that abstinence should be utilized for a much larger personal reason. That can include pregnancy prevention, but it is my experience with our clients (where I work) that using abstinence to prevent pregnancy alone rarely works and many still end up pregnant when they would rather not be. So, to those that say "keep your legs closed", I say "keep your ignorant mouth closed!"



Plus, as a married women (or, I should say, as someone in a committed relationship), I find it absurd to even suggest that I should abstain from having sex with my committed partner, just to prevent pregnancy. If that was the case, we'd just have to have a baby every year, or so! I can not take hormonal birth control and, personally, I'd rather have 20 children than have an invasive surgical procedure. But, that's just me. I'm crazy that way! So, my husband decided that he wasn't as crazy as I and had a small, out-patient surgical procedure known as a vasectomy. He didn't want anymore children and, obviously, wasn't going to practice abstinence, either. ha ha Personally speaking, if we had to practice abstinence just to prevent pregnancy, we might as well divorce...

Katherine - posted on 10/30/2011

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CM IMO sucks. I joined and was appalled. That is such a nasty statement to make. There are some pretty psycho groups over there.

Keep your legs closed, what a twit. She sounds like a real gem.

[deleted account]

"Haha, people look at me with my 2 young boys and my huge preggo belly and no wedding ring - because it won't fit since my first pregnancy - and I'm sure judge me all the time! I get that "You have your hands full!" a lot! "

True story. When I was pregnant and working at the mall, I had similar problems with my hands swelling so I stopped wearing my ring. I don't quite remember the exact wording of the comment but it was enough for me to pretend to cry and moan that my husband was just killed by a drunk driver and I had to sell the ring to pay for his funeral.

Yeah, I lost a customer that day but she deserved it.

Plus, have you noticed that it's more women who get nasty like that than men? Men generally are big behind banning things but women are more likely to just get rude with you about your sexual habits?

[deleted account]

"I find more people seem to get oops pregnant in committed relationships than in one-night stands and such. I think in committed relationships, people might just get a little too comfy. Whereas it seems that people (provided they are not shit-faced) will be more cautious on one-night stands or casual sex because they KNOW they don't know that person well enough to have discussed important stuff like children and health histories. Perhaps I am incorrect in this assumption, it comes from purely anecdotal evidence, but I socialize with people who don't tend to have particularly negative opinions of extra-marital or casual sex, and yet, no pregnancies. But a number of people I know have had oops babies in long-term relationships or marriages"

I think you're right on the money here. Speaking also from purely anecdotal terms, I personally have had my share of one nighters for which I have zero regrets but I never had unprotected sex in them (with 2 very rash stupid stupid stupid stupid exceptions, one of which ended up leaving me witha bartholin abscess so I don't do that anymore) but I regularly had unprotected sex with my long-term partners even though I wasn't completely ready for kids. I think Johnny is so right. We get comfy with our partners. We're more cautious, unless as you say we're beyond intoxicated, with an unknown element.

Becky - posted on 10/30/2011

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And I completely, 100% agree that the idea of banning birth control or making it difficult for anyone to obtain is a very, very bad idea.

Becky - posted on 10/30/2011

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Haha, people look at me with my 2 young boys and my huge preggo belly and no wedding ring - because it won't fit since my first pregnancy - and I'm sure judge me all the time! I get that "You have your hands full!" a lot!

Stifler's - posted on 10/30/2011

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I agree with Johnny. If I got pregnant again I wouldn't care as much as if I was single and having a one night stand. If you're in a relationship you can almost guarantee that he will stick around, when you're alone there is the question of "how am i going to support and raise a child alone". I almost don't care if I do get pregnant again even though I don't want anymore kids. banning birth control is ridiculous.

Johnny - posted on 10/30/2011

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I find more people seem to get oops pregnant in committed relationships than in one-night stands and such. I think in committed relationships, people might just get a little too comfy. Whereas it seems that people (provided they are not shit-faced) will be more cautious on one-night stands or casual sex because they KNOW they don't know that person well enough to have discussed important stuff like children and health histories. Perhaps I am incorrect in this assumption, it comes from purely anecdotal evidence, but I socialize with people who don't tend to have particularly negative opinions of extra-marital or casual sex, and yet, no pregnancies. But a number of people I know have had oops babies in long-term relationships or marriages.

I do agree though that if you are not ready for the potential consequences of sex, to use protection, and to make the best attempt to not get intentionally pregnant, you should probably not choose to have sex.

It really bothers me and offends me though, like most of you have said, the idea that if you are not intending to procreate that you should not have intercourse. If that is within your belief system, then that's fine, it is your choice not to use protection or control your fertility. I would not force anyone to do so. But by the same token, it is my choice NOT to follow that lifestyle and I should have the right to have sex when I choose and to use whatever protection I feel works best for me to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

The results of banning forms of birth control and abortion will be truly frightening. If these brain donors think that people will just stop having sex, they are kidding themselves. The number of unwanted, abused, abandoned and murdered babies & children will skyrocket. I can not believe that they have really thought this whole thing through.

Becky - posted on 10/30/2011

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Johnny, since I made a statement sort of similar to that (although I did include committed relationships along with marriage) I think I should clarify what I meant. I am not saying that anyone should not have the right to have sex whenever and with whoever they want - within legal age limits and assuming both partners consent, of course. What I was trying to say, and did not really say at all - is that I do feel that both partners in a relationship should be aware of their feelings and readiness for a child and should be responsible for taking steps to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. My personal opinion is that in a marriage or committed relationship, it is more likely that both partners have discussed whether or not they want children, and when, if so, and both are taking responsibility for protection. A one-night-stand is a situation where I would think a person would be more likely to jump into it without much thought of the potential consequences and doing what they can to prevent unwanted consequences. So maybe more what I am saying is that if you are not ready to be responsible for your own sexual choices and protection, then you should keep your legs closed. Of course, I recognize that sometimes people do take all the responsible steps and birth control fails, and no, I do not blame them for an unwanted pregnancy in that situation.

Charlie - posted on 10/30/2011

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Well it's very narrow minded to think that way IMO, the writer is assuming that people in long term or married relationships even want kids why should they be denied the right to sex ?

It's people like that whos adivice is to "keep your legs closed" sorry but preaching abstinence never worked the best thing you can do is make people aware of contraception and allow them easy access to it.

I mean WTF ??? I have two boys, I dont want anymore children do I now have to shut up shop ? keep my legs forever together so I dont have a baby.

The idea is illogical and thoughtless.

Johnny - posted on 10/30/2011

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The thing that makes me wonder about some of these comments are why it is that a woman in a committed marriage has the right to open her legs and share herself with her husband, but a woman who chooses not to be in or has not yet entered a marriage is required to keep her legs closed. To me this is an archaic moral construct stemming from religious beliefs that many do not share. I just don't think that marriage assigns a person any special sexual rights, nor does being unmarried absolve both sexual partners of responsibility for the results of an act of sex. Frankly, the only way to avoid pregnancy is to not have sex at all. Since that is feasible for only a minority of people and is not going to happen for most, we have found ways to prevent those natural consequences and should be free to use them regardless of what context the sexual relationship falls under.

[deleted account]

Where do you see that ending though? Hypothetically let's assume he can force her to carry to term. Does he also have the right to determine how she behaves during pregnancy? Can he then force her to not receive any medical interventions including pain relief because he feels that natural is best. CAn he then request as well that she breastfeed as long as he wants her to? Exactly when does that end?

Becky - posted on 10/30/2011

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It`s true that the man is not held accountable, but on the other hand, the man is also not given a say in what happens to the baby. Leaving out rape and one-night stands/short relationships and focusing only on committed relationships, if a woman becomes pregnant with a child she does not want but that her partner desperately wants, she is still able to abort that child regardless of his feelings on the matter. So he should be blamed for having sex with a woman he loved, who presumably consented to the sex, and getting her pregnant with a child that he wants, but have no option to actually have that child. I don't know, it seems a bit unfair to me.

Leeann - posted on 10/30/2011

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its true the man is never blamed in any situation, its always the womans fault. We should have known better, should have kept our legs closed (I really, really HATE that one) and anything els they can think of.

It upsets me greatly that most of the world have suck lack of regard towards women. My own husband doesnt really get it, all because we were born with a uterus.

@Becky I know what you meant, its all good :)

JuLeah - posted on 10/30/2011

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I kind of get that, maybe, but what about the man? Society just doesn't judge him the same, he is not held accountable ... maybe she can go after his pocket book, but ... she is 'blamed'



And if it is her husband who fathered she child - not her choice, or not a child they can care for ....

Leeann - posted on 10/30/2011

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well no I dont think that's what she is saying, its just one of those things, rape is where a man forces himself on a woman be it her husband, friend or total stranger. If a girl goes some where has consenting sex w/ someone she knows that bc and condoms are not always 100%. Still no woman should be forced to have a child they do not want/can not take care of its neither good for mother or child. options, the good lord gave them to us for a reason.

JuLeah - posted on 10/30/2011

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Becky ... so you can't 'blame' a rape victum, but you can 'blame' a women if the condom broke, or if the pill just didn't work .... you can blame her and punish her; make her have a baby that is not wanted ....bring another unwanted life onto this planet ... yah, that will teach her

The rape augument has never worked for me ... AND women who are married can/are rape victums too .... husbands rape

Leeann - posted on 10/29/2011

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http://www.circleofmoms.com/debating-mum...

That link is the Circle of Moms post, basically its about both and honestly its really disturbing.

I completely agree with you if a person is in a committed relationship then it is a ridiculous statement. You cant expect a committed or married couple to just roll over and go to sleep waiting for that magical day when they could have sex once again. I'm sorry this keep you legs closed theory just makes me so mad! I told my own husband that last night and the look he gave me was priceless, there were also a few choice words hehe about waiting.

I completely agree with you on the adolescents and one-night stands. Other than, that its just a stupid comment thought by a lot of people.

Becky - posted on 10/28/2011

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Well, within a marriage or committed relationship, I completely agree with you that that is a ridiculous statement. If a couple does not ever want kids, does not want kids right now, or doesn't want any more kids, it is preposterous to suggest that they just stop having sex until the woman hits menopause and can't conceive anymore, essentially! Ha, I can just imagine my husband's response to that suggestion!

On the other hand, when it comes to adolescents and one-night stands, I am kind of inclined to agree with the statement. But again, not all sex is consensual either. You certainly can't blame a rape victim who conceives as a result of the rape for "not keeping her legs closed!"
Btw, I didn't really read the post because the format was annoying to me. Was it about abortion or birth control?

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