Adoption?

Brittany - posted on 09/27/2011 ( 34 moms have responded )

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Recently in the news a Catholic Church was denied it's license to provide adoption services because, they would not adopt to a Gay couple. When this went to court the Church said that is goes against what is taught in the Bible and what they teach the children in their care. Thus referring to "Marriage is between a man and a woman."

I have read many studies that have been done saying that Homosexual couples stay together longer and are happier than Heterosexual couples. I have also seen research suggesting that children adopted and placed in Homosexual homes do better in school and adjust faster,

So what do you think about the courts decision to revoke the license of the Church and having to uproot and rehome over 700 children?

What about Homosexual couples? Should they be allowed to adopt children?

What do you think about the research that suggests children placed in homes with Homosexual parents do better?

*Just a few notes*

This is not a debate on the Catholic Church, what they believe or any negative media against the Catholic Church.

This is not intended to be a Homosexual bash.

In no way, shape or form am I discrediting any heterosexual couple from adoption. The studies I have read were done to help support the Homosexual community and their right to adoption. Not one of them bashed or degraded Heterosexual couples.

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Becky - posted on 09/27/2011

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Here in Alberta, it is legal for homosexual couples to adopt and we have placed children with homosexual couples. I remember one case that we handled in my office. We had 2 little boys who were quite severely affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum disorder and had other special needs as well. They were very, very difficult to place. We had a homosexual couple in our region who were willing to accept their level of special needs and the boys were placed with them. The boys did wonderfully! I think the fact that the couple was homosexual was actually in the best interests of these boys. They were outside of the "socially accepted norm" and with their special needs, so were these little boys. The parents could relate to being discriminated against based simply on being who they were, so they were in a better position to help these kids when it happened to them. And the boys did not have any prejudices or think it was odd that they now had 2 daddies instead of a daddy and a mommy.

I grew up being taught that the nuclear family structure - one mom, one dad, married to each other and the biological parents of all of the their children, was the best family structure for all children to grow up in. Having worked in child welfare and adoptions, and just growing up and becoming less naive in general, I have come to realize this is not always the case. Some of the children we placed needed to have a single female parent, as opposed to a couple, because of issues they had experienced in the past. Others did better with a single male parent. Others needed that 2 parent family, and others fit very well into a home headed by a homosexual couple. The bottom line is not an individual or couple's sexual orientation or marital status, it is their ability to meet the needs of the child who is being considered for their home and their committment to the child. Those are the things that make a placement work or not work, not what a parent does in their bedroom.

As to the issue with the Catholic church, I am somewhat torn. On the one hand, yes, obviously, in that area, it is legal for homosexuals to adopt. On the other hand, I see it kind of the way I see homosexual marriage. It is legal, I don't think it should not be legal, but I don't think that a church or church leader should be legally obligated to marry a homosexual couple if that goes against their beliefs. Generally, the couple would have other options of places to get married, and generally, they would have other options of agencies to go through to adopt. Maybe it's just me, but if I were adopting, I probably would not choose to go through an agency that had beliefs or policies that directly contradicted my own beliefs or lifestyle in the first place.

Becky - posted on 09/27/2011

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Well now, that just annoys me (in regards to Brittany's further comment.) It sounds like they were just looking to stir up trouble. I mean, who out there is not aware of the Catholic church's stance on homosexuality? So, if you knew there was another agency that did not have any restrictions against sexual orientation, why would you not just go to them in the first place? Rather than going to an agency who you know is going to have an issue with your lifestyle and then crying discrimination against them. Like I said, if I knew an agency was likely to have an issue with a particular element of my way of life, I would just find another agency to work with in the first place! And it does sound like the church did everything they could to help this couple find another agency to work with.

Rosie - posted on 09/28/2011

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i agree with becky. once you start taking away the churches rights to do what they believe then you might as well start forcing non believers to do what the church wants (not that we don't already anyway, but i digress). they are entitled to be asshats under our constitution, just as i am entitled to be a nice caring, non asshat, smart non believer. ;P

Becky - posted on 09/28/2011

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I just think it's a slippery slope. If you say they have to go against their beliefs in one arena, then what is to prevent them being forced to go against their beliefs in another arena? First it's adoption, then it's marriage, then it's not being allowed to preach against certain things at all... eventually the church loses all their freedom. Now, I know some of you think religion should be done away with altogether so maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing, but really, telling a church they need to go against what they believe is like telling an athiest they are legally required to attend church.

Brittany - posted on 09/27/2011

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Meggy,

Maybe I was a little unclear. Any child that had been placed on foster care with the agency was removed from the home and rehomed and any child living in a boarding home owned by the church was removed and rehomed. Children that had been adopted were allowed to stay with their families. The church was in control of about 700 children who had not been adopted yet.

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Becky - posted on 09/28/2011

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I guess the other option would have been for the church to go ahead and approve them but then say, "I'm sorry, but we don't have any children who we feel would fit well into your home at this time," without giving them a specific reason why. However, the route they took, being upfront with the couple that they would not place with them and referring them to another agency, seems to be the more honorable of the two to me.

Becky - posted on 09/28/2011

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The church would also have to be licensed to be legally facillitating adoptions. This means that there would be a set of standards that they had to agree to abide by. Unless they had agreed that they would not discriminate based on sexual orientation or marital status in order to get their license, legally, I don't believe they were doing anything wrong. Since the courts obviously feel differently, the state is likely going to have to review its licensing standards now to ensure that all licensed agencies understand that they are required to accept homosexual couples.
Honestly though, if they were not going against their license, I think the court should've stayed out of it. Many couples are denied approval, for a variety of reasons. If every couple who was not approved went to court over it, adoption agencies would be so busy defending themselves in court that they would never get any children placed! And all agencies approve or not based on what is legally and, in the opinion of the person doing the assessment, in the best interests of the child. It is legal to spank in Canada, but we will not approve an adoptive home who says that they will use spanking as a method of discipline because we don't believe it is in the best interest of a child who has already been abused. I realize that's different, because it is backed up by research, but someone could still say we are discriminating against them because they believe in spanking and they have the legal right to do so. Or maybe a better example, in Alberta, we have no income cut-off for eligibility to adopt. However, if during the course of the home assessment, you reveal that you are heavily in debt and are not doing anything to get out of it, you don't budget wisely, and sometimes you have difficulty paying your rent and feeding and clothing your family, there is a good chance you will not be approved. Technically, there is no requirement that you make a certain amount of money. However, we don't feel it is in the best interests of the child to be in a home that is going to be financially unable to provide for them. So, if a Catholic agency feels that it is not in the best interests of the children they are working with, children who are in Catholic foster homes and are being taught Catholic values and beliefs, to be raised by a homosexual couple, then, despite the fact that they may be wrong, they should be allowed to deny approval to that family.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/28/2011

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Jen, if people don't like the way a Catholic organization opperates they have a right to take their business elsewhere. Just the same a Catholic business has the right under the US constitution to opperate as it sees fit.

Now I agree that discrimination because of sexual orientation or marital status isn't fair and it is illegal. But there is the whole separation of Church and State so the Catholic Church is in its legal right to refuse an adoption.

[deleted account]

Catholics have the right to religion. If they don't approve the adoption because the couple is living a way that is against their religion, they have every right to do so. It doesn't make it right though. You would think we have advanced enough to get passed petty discrimination. I guess not.

[deleted account]

I disagree. They are working in a secular arena because while they may set it up, the legal end of it is purely secular.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/28/2011

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Becky, that seems to have been the case with The Catholic Family Centre where my parents adopted myself and my brother from (although my brother's is a very interesting story) My birth mom was single, only had her GED and wanted to go to college. She knew she couldn't do those things with me so she must have gotten in touch with the Catholic agency and my parents (who had applied about 3 years prior in '78) were near the top of the list.

Becky - posted on 09/28/2011

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There is a Christian adoption agency here and while I haven't checked their policies in a while, I'm fairly certain they won't work with homosexual couples. I do know they won't approve singles, unless it is for international adoption. Even though both can legally adopt in Alberta. Their reasoning is that they do private adoptions, where the birth mother is choosing a family, usually for her newborn, and they feel that most birth mothers are looking for something more than what they are able to give their children, which includes a 2 parent family. This may be faulty reasoning, because we all know that just because a family starts out with 2 parents doesn't mean it's going to stay that way. But that is their reasoning. And as far as I know, no one has ever made a complaint about it. Applicants who fall into one of those catagories would just go to one of the other 2 agencies in the city or adopt through the government.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/28/2011

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Jen, which they do you mean?

Catholic adoption centres primarily work with Catholic families in my experiance. That's not to say that they won't work with other families to assist with an adoption, but most people understand the Catholic (and other churches') feelings towards same sex couples so they will try a different agency. I'm sure that this couple was well aware of the Catholic Church's stance on gay marriage The Catholic church isn't trying to play in the secular arena and they were playing by the rules that are set by the church. You can't dictate what everyone's feelings should be.

[deleted account]

If they want to play in the secular arena, they have to abide by its rules. If they don't want to ,then they can exit the adoption ring.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/27/2011

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Thanks Becky, I'm almost hoping my DH will get a job in Toronto because at least that's a 3hr drive back to Rochester (the cities are technically 100Km apart, but try driving across a lake) However it looks more likely that we'll end up moving down to Vancouver away from his family (a 4hr drive though not a 6hr flight if you're lucky)

Jennifer - posted on 09/27/2011

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Tough one. I don't think the homosexual couple should have stirred the pot, since they did have other options, but then, how would you feel if you knew these kid's were being taught to 'hate' you?

I am a Christian, and do believe homosexuality is a sin, but don't know anyone who hasn't sinned. I know several gay couples who have adopted. I don't know how anyone can deny a child a loving home. A single parent is probably gonna have sex without being married, are we gonna deny them a child, too? Gees! Do these case workers realize what these kids go through in foster care?? Going through life with no family?? They suffer as adults with no family! Give the kids a chance to have someone who loves them! Perfect isn't real, but love is!

Becky - posted on 09/27/2011

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Hey, I can totally understand that. Mine lived in Africa for 8 more years after I moved back to Canada. It's not easy, no matter what your age is! Now that I finally have them in the same city again, I'm never moving away! :)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/27/2011

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I think I cry easily right now because I miss my parents. FML I'm 30! But I just moved across the country from NY to BC (so I'm also now in Canada instead of the US) and even though I'm close with my inlaws I miss my own family!

Becky - posted on 09/27/2011

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No, not sad. It did bring tears to my eyes, but that's just my stupid pregnancy hormones! :) I cry during Gray's on a regular basis, lol!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/27/2011

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If it's sad I don't want to watch it. I cried watching a video about bait dogs, reading Oogy, reading what happened to Michael Vic's dogs and reading a post my husband's cousin put on her facebook which was about a puppy who was given back to a shelter and put down because the owner didnt want to take the time to train it. Oh and I cried during the Desperate Housewives episode where Gabby lost the baby she was trying to adopt and during last week's episode of Gray's Anatomy when Christina had the abortion.

I cry too much, I'm too emotional. I probably can't watch it. It's not you it's definitely me.

Becky - posted on 09/27/2011

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That was a very good video. He is a very articulate young man and makes some excellent points. I have to say that I find the question, "can gays raise children" to be a ridiculous one! Do people who ask that think that the "gay gene" takes the place of the "maternal/paternal gene"? Your sexual orientation has nothing to do with whether you can be a good parent!

Rosie - posted on 09/27/2011

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you guys are missing out on an awesome video if you don't watch it!! dammit, nobody friggin watches this when i post it on my fb page and it irritates me, i want someone to enjoy it as much as i do, lol.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/27/2011

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Emma not all Catholics believe that gay=bad and straight=good. Most Cathoics I know are accepting of gays- even if they don't all believe in their lifestyle. I also know a few homosexual Catholics. But Marina's right even if they were Gay Catholics, they should've known enough to pick a different organization.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 09/27/2011

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Emma, just because you are gay, does not mean you cannot be Catholic...as much as the church may disagree with it. The Gay couple may have been Catholic, and may have wanted to adopt through that specific organization. Who knows.

Merry - posted on 09/27/2011

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Yeah maybe they just wanted to get some publicity. If they really wanted to adopt they should look for some non religious agency and go from there.

Stifler's - posted on 09/27/2011

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Of course they should. But I agree with Becky, why try to adopt through the Catholic church when it's widely known that they think being gay is bad.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/27/2011

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Brittany thanks for the clear up. But I'm also wondering, what if the foster family was getting ready to adopt that child, but the child was removed.

Rosie - posted on 09/27/2011

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as much as i hate that the church does that, i feel they have every right too. so i dont' think they should've had their license revoked.

of course homosexual couples should be allowed to adopt children. it's ridiculous to think otherwise. what are they going to do? turn them "gay" for fucks sake, i will never get the argument against homosexuals adopting, marrying, LIVING...

i would have to think that children of homosexuals would do great, not sure about better than heterosexual. i guess it could make sense, they have to work extra hard to "prove" they are fit to raise children.
anyway, this video makes me cry every time i watch it, but i LOVE IT, and it has to do with this topic so i'll post it. http://youtu.be/FSQQK2Vuf9Q

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/27/2011

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I'm an adult who was adopted by a heterosexual Catholic couple who adopted myself and then my (not biological) brother through The Catholic Family Center. My brother and I were happy and well adjusted. Neither my brother or I go to Church, and our parents taught us to think for ourselves. I believe it depends on the type of family the child is in not the sexual preferences of the couple. So I believe the research is biased to try and give homosexual couples an edge. I don't feel it's fair that the Catholic church should have their liscence revoked for standing by their beliefs. They weren't refusing a child to a bi-racial couple or a white child to a black family (which you know would've landed them in even more hot water).

Now most of you all know that I am for same sex marriages and legallizing gay marriage in the US. But I don't feel it's right to have to remove children from a home they've been living in with parents who have been loving them as their own children just because of some ruling where a homosexual couple felt they were being discriminated against by a group that makes it quite clear their stance on gay marriage. Did the courts stop to consider the long term affects this would have on the children being removed from their homes- some of which have most likely been with their adoptive parents since they were infants? That's extremely traumatic for a young child to deal with. I doubt that anyone had this in mind when they started the lawsuit. This part makes me very upset.

I'm not sure what else to say, I have a friend who was adopted by a single man at 13 and he's doing fine at 24 11 years later. Homosexual parents make just as good parents as Heterosexual parents and vice versa same with single parents (I should know I was one for 6 years) What matters most for a child is knowing that they have a loving supportive family not their parents' sexual orientation or whether or not their parent is single, married or divorced.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 09/27/2011

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I also think that single people that can provide, support and love a child should be able to do so.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 09/27/2011

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It does not matter to me who adopts a child. Just as long as it is a loving and safe environment. I do wish it was easier, and cheaper to do so more people that want families that cannot have their own children are able to.

Merry - posted on 09/27/2011

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My 2 cents is anyone able to care for a child should be allowed to adopt.
Adoption is way too hard to do here and if a gay family wants to adopt and is turned away they might go to surrogacy instead and honestly, do we need more babies being made? So, yeah, wether or not I believe gay is ok in Gods eyes, I do think that every kid deserves a parent, and if that's a single parent, gay parents, old parents, disabled parents, etc etc etc
No one should be denied for their lifestyle, age, race, marital status. Etc.

Brittany - posted on 09/27/2011

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Just to add to my post,

Homosexual adoptions are legal in America. The Catholic Church did refer the couple to another adoption agency. The lady they spoke with explained to them couple that, them being Homosexual, does go against what they teach the children in their care, but, she had already setup an appointment with another agency they work with to help them adopt. She had also forwarded a letter of recommendation that stated the couple had passed all of the qualifications the require for adoption minus their sexual orientation. The couple screamed discrimination and now the Church had to rehome over 700 children.

When it went to court, the adoption agency they were refereed to testified that the Church had forwarded them all of their information, along with the letter. The adoption agency had already had a child lined up for them to meet and was trying to get them in within that week.

I do believe the Church went above and beyond their obligation. They could have just said "No" and left it.

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