AFIS (tracking devices)

Iridescent - posted on 02/12/2011 ( 73 moms have responded )

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So...they have AFIS for pets. I have kids that run off due to autism. They don't understand, it's not their fault. I also have young kids, as most of us do. I checked. We can't put AFIS (or any other GPS style tracker) into our kids as it's a violation of their privacy. I think it would be good for a lot of reasons, including kidnapping. My kids are cute, even if they are needy! Wouldn't this reduce a lot of the kidnapping concerns? Just my opinion. What's yours? I'm all good if the kid has it removed at 18, lol!

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Jodi - posted on 02/12/2011

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No, I wouldn't ever do it. IMO it is helicopter parenting gone crazy.

Isobel - posted on 02/15/2011

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Parents seem to fear kidnapping more than anything else. Some say that excessive television news coverage of child abduction causes parents to have a fear that is overblown. In 1999, only 115 children were abducted by strangers with the intent to keep, kill or hold them for ransom.

Though horrifying for those 115 and for society as a whole, the number does seem small, especially considering that there are 40 million children in the US. This would place the odds of a child being kidnapped and held or killed by a stranger at 1 in 347,000.

Read more at Suite101: Statistics on Child Abduction: Parents Fear Kidnapping More Than Car Accidents - What are the Odds? http://www.suite101.com/content/statisti...
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I don't know I would say it happens "often"

Jodi - posted on 02/15/2011

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See, we only have a 1 on 15,000 abduction rate - but then, I am not sure how they came to any of these statistics, but chances are we are not comparing apples with apples.

@ Tracey, yes, helicopter parenting is being over protective.....hovering too much :) However, obviously children who have mental impairment in some way are not the average child. I can totally understand your concerns. But the average child? I just wouldn't do it, and don't agree with it.

LaCi - posted on 02/15/2011

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Not according to her website. "Of abducted children who are ultimately murdered, 74 percent are dead within three hours of the abduction (State of Washington's Office of the Attorney General; National Center of Missing and Exploited Children)"



The 24 hours, if I'm not mistaken, is the ideal window of time to get a child back, but only 1/1000 missing children is actually murdered. According to the same website

LaCi - posted on 02/15/2011

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"http://www.kidsfightingchance.com/stats....

Missing children are actually 11.4 per 1000. That's just over 1%. That means, in a small town of 1200, 12+ will go missing. Kidnapping is one example of how they will become missing. This doesn't even count the attempted kidnappings which fail! There are quite a few of them as well."



"Of the 800,000 children reported missing annually, approximately 69,000 are abducted:" So less than 9% of the kids reported missing are actually kidnapped, less than 1 in a thousand. I only throw that out there because, although you said abduction was just one cause for the missing children, I think the stat is a bit misleading without that piece of information. A lot of the kids in those stats are runaways, and all it takes to report a child missing is for them to not come home one night, which, in the teenage years especially, probably happens frequently.



It also says that, if the kidnapper intends to kill the child, the child will likely be dead within 3 hours. So, unless you're constantly monitoring your child's activity and you have a very specific itinerary regarding where your child must be at any given time, if the kids going to be dead he/she is likely going to be dead before you even notice they're gone.

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Brandi - posted on 02/16/2011

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NO... I won't go into the reasoning behind my answer, but I definitely think no.

LaCi - posted on 02/16/2011

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I should add, if my son were mentally handicapped in some way, I would probably think of this differently. Like, if he were going to be under my care (or someone elses) permanently rather than doing his own thing as an adult. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that.

[deleted account]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Things like that are a good resource for parents in bitter divorce situations and custody battles.

Isobel - posted on 02/15/2011

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I would get an external tracking device at the beginning of a separation.

[deleted account]

What a nightmare for you! I'm so glad you were able to get them back. Sometimes I wonder what will happen if my husband and I divorce since he isn't American. I would probably be one of those moms who runs with her kids and hides until they're 18 then goes to jail. If I have a breathe left in me, no one will ever take my kids.

I do have alot of fear of the other type of abductions too bc Ive lived it. I was an abducted child so I know how real it is. A person can't fathom that the possibilty of having this happen to you is a reality, until it actually happens. People think it's something that happens to "other people" but not to them. You never know who or what is lurking just around the corner. But in all honesty I can say if I had had parents who were watching out for me and taking proper care of me it would not have happened, I am at least 99% sure it wouldn't have. So being an attentive parent greatly reduces the possibility of something happening to your children. I'm not saying bad things don't happen to children of good parents, though. Of course they do. I'm just saying in alot of cases kids are left unattended which is a perfect opportunity for a predator. So maybe get devices for kids with crappy parents? ; ) Just kidding.

Isobel - posted on 02/15/2011

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My ex picked the kids up for his visitation (it was an agreement we had come to ourselves and had not been to court yet) put them in the car and handed me an envelope.

The letter said "I'm not bringing them back until a judge forces me to".

When I went to pick the kids up at daycare on my normal day, the woman there told me he had removed me from the pick up list and therefore I couldn't take them without his permission (he was the one who signed them up for daycare and filled in all the forms so he had say, not me). As it turns out that's not how the law works but...it's how they worked that day.

I ended up having to call the police to force them to release my children to me and because we didn't have a formal agreement, they were going to take the kids to foster care until we could come to an agreement (which thankfully we did immediately).

EVERY time he came to pick those children up, I counted the minutes until they were home again. THAT is something to be afraid of...not a remote chance of a stranger happening across your child that is 1 in over 300 000

[deleted account]

Oh yeah, parental kidnapping happens alot. My bff had to go to school with her 4th grade daughter every single day for the entire school year to keep her dad from walking in and taking her, and he tried. The situation was that whoever had physical custody had legal custody so if he could get ahold of her, he had custody, at least up until they went to court which was ages away. She was preg, too, and spent the whole 9 months in a 4th grade classroom. I think I would have home schooled.

Isobel - posted on 02/15/2011

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The only time I was ever REALLY worried about my kids being kidnapped was during my divorce.

Amber - posted on 02/15/2011

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i've read, more than once, that it's 24 hours. either way....i'd notice my kid was gone way before then.

Tracey - posted on 02/15/2011

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Can someone please explain helicopter parenting, haven't heard that phrase before, does it mean being over protective?

Re implants, heck yeah, I'll put one in my son tomorrow, as to the comment on supervising your kids so they don't need one - my son is coming up 6' tall and weighs more than me, and has a mental age of 4, he has no sense of danger, and will run away if he sees something he wants or if he is scared by a loud noise. He would not respond to anyone trying to help him or acknowledge their or his own presence. He could sit in a field playing and ignore 100 men around him looking for him and calling out his name.

[deleted account]

I'm not trying to convince you to implant your kids, my point was to say that violent crime against children happens alot more often than you might realize. That's all. Something like getting an implant is a really big issue and when the time comes that is up to every parent to decide for themselves. I do think that wearing a device could save alot of children though, but there is alot more to think of with choosing to implant rather than putting a necklace on your child that tells you where they are.

[deleted account]

Jodi, you are very blessed to be able to live in a place with such a low crime rate. Unfortunately, in the USA, it just isn't the same.

Jodi - posted on 02/14/2011

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It does :) I guess a lot of my views about these issues are based on how safe I feel.

Iridescent - posted on 02/14/2011

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That alone goes a long ways towards our different views on the subject! I'm glad your rate is so low, and honestly wish we could say the same.

Iridescent - posted on 02/14/2011

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http://www.kidsfightingchance.com/stats....
Missing children are actually 11.4 per 1000. That's just over 1%. That means, in a small town of 1200, 12+ will go missing. Kidnapping is one example of how they will become missing. This doesn't even count the attempted kidnappings which fail! There are quite a few of them as well.

Jodi - posted on 02/14/2011

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"Jodi- The risks ARE that great."

Well, it's all a matter of perspective really. I personally don't consider one in 15,000 a risk. I had a greater risk of having a downs baby, or even my child dying in childbirth. I still don't believe that a GPS implant can be justified. I don't personally feel the need to any GPS device for my kids, but that's me. But to me a GPS *implant* is over the top. I won't change my mind on that.

[deleted account]

Oh, and the recent case of Juliana Cardenas here in CA... A migrant worker saw the car go into the canal just hours after the abduction took place, so a tracking device probably would not have helped that poor little boy :(

[deleted account]

This is honestly something I go back and forth on. Mainly because my oldest daughter's biological mother (who has not been involved in our lives - or our daughter's life - for over a year now) has threatened to kidnap our daughter multiple times AND she's threatened my biological children as well.

BUT, I also think the technology could be misused by authority and that's a little too Big Brother for my comfort.

So, I'm on the fence. Right now, my oldest daughter has a watch that has a tracking device in it that she wears all the time (just in case - and when my younger ones get older I'll get them watches like that too) and my younger two (my biological children) are never outside without me or my hubby. I also always buckle them into the grocery cart and they wear backpack safety harnesses when we are in crowded places (like when we go to fairs and such). They never play in the front yard, and they never go to the park (around the corner from our house) without me. The only time I am not with my children, they are with my hubby, my MIL, or my parents and those are all people I trust to keep my children safe.

Iridescent - posted on 02/14/2011

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Anything can be abused. That is a huge concern with this subject. I wasn't saying I want to stalk my child every minute of every day; I just think it would be great for if the need ever should arise. My cousin and her neighbor were playing in their yard 23 years ago; the neighbor girl was kidnapped, and my cousin was left standing there to scream about it. Why? She was never found, so nobody knows what happened for sure. Just another case in the files... All parents think of these stories with pity for the family, horror that it could happen to them. But what if you could actually do something to prevent it? A lot of us buy life insurance for our kids when they turn 4 weeks old (Gerber program). I did. I am so glad I did, because I found out my baby is very likely to die quite young when she was 7 months old and she'll never qualify for another life insurance policy. Was that why I bought it in the first place? Nope. It was "just in case". If I had to deal with my child's death, I could not afford to bury her. I could not afford to miss the work needed to deal with anything. This is a potential many of us are used to accepting, yet the ability to find your child should they ever be missing isn't? That makes no sense to me.

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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it is never a good time when a child is abducted, and no mother wants that thought to cross her mind Jenn. but i can bet you right now that the majority of parents who have had their little boys and girls abducted and raped and killed by sick assholes probably weren't sitting around and worrying that ther kids were going to meet that fate. it probably never crossed their minds either. it's not so much about living in fear as it is about realizing that there are a lot of disturbed people in this world and that we can't protect our kids from all of life's horrors, wether we coddle them or leave them be it doesn't matter. but if we can protect them from some of them, especially something as awful as being abducted and never coming home, then why not? i don't actually see the hamr in the tracking system, as long as it isn't left up to the parents and it is only the authorities who are able to log into a high-security database and track the devices. i think if it was left up to parents a lot of people would definately abuse the system and use it to pry and overstep boundaries. it should be for actual emergency use only.

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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i am also not one to sit around and worry all the time about the 'what-ifs" but n the case of something like this being available and my family taking it into consideration, i would definately be more concerned about how i would feel if my child, god forbid and as much of a non-risk or whatever some people seem to think it is i know it is a realistic fear in the back of every parents mind, my child was abducted, i would not want those 'what-ifs'either in my mind. i would want to know that i did everything i could to always keep my children safe, and if they were abducted and never found or found...and no longer living....i would always wonder what if i had put that chip in? the authorities would have been able to log into the database, find the signal, track the child & the childs abductor almost as soon as it is discovered that the child is missing and find them. i mean, when you think about it there is no way for an abductor to know if the child has a chip under their skin. it's pretty much foolproof. even the child technically wouldn't have to know. i'm not saying i wouldn't tell my kids if they had them, i'm just saying. it would be such a comfort to know that if that situation ever occured that there would be no doubts about your child being recovered, and more than likely recovered in time for any harm to come to them, if not any harm than a lot less than if the abductor had the child for a longr period of time.

Jenn - posted on 02/14/2011

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I would not implant my kids with something and the thought of a kidnapper has never ever crossed my mind. Of course I do know that people get kidnapped, but the thought of it happening to my kids just doesn't enter my thought process. I don't like to live in fear of the what-ifs. Now, having said that, I do take certain precautions - like wearing seatbelts/carseats, making sure my kids are properly, age-appropriate supervised, etc., but not to an extreme level of fear and paranoia. Perhaps if something scary had happened, I might change my tune - who knows.

[deleted account]

Katherine- You are not paranoid and your fears aren't from watching too much tv. From my own experience I can tell you that these things happen often.



Just look at your own neighborhoods and see how many pedophiles live near you. They didn't commit these crimes on Mars then suddenly relocate to your neighborhood. These things likely happened right there where you live, where you work and where your children go to school.



Jodi- The risks ARE that great. How you deal with it, by implant or not, is every parent's choice BUT never underestimate how much of a reality these crimes are and how often they occur.

I am but one person and was abducted and sexually assualted as a child, and although this part doesn't warrant a tracking device, I was repeatedly abused in my own home until I became a ward of the state, then I was sexually abused by a priesthood holder. I am one person, one child, and this sort of thing happened to me that many times, not to mention many other "near miss" situations. And, to add icing to the shit-filled cake of my childhood, I became pregnant by my abductor. These things aren't just "movies of the week", they are true life for some people.

My point is to show how many times these unthinkable things really happen. A tracking device would have helped when I was abducted. Perhaps I would have been found early enough that the aftermath of this wouldn't have been in the form of another innocent human being growing inside of me.

Katherine - posted on 02/14/2011

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Thank you Amber. I don't know, like I said in previous posts it's something for peace of mind. I have heard too many stories in our town about children getting kidnapped.
I do like Kelly's idea though.
Or the wristband idea, but it would have to be something that wasn't so obvious.

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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oh, and the chip tracking thing can only be available to the police. like, only the authorities can track it if need be. i wouldn't want to track my kids myself. i would just want it there for security, just in case they went missing etc.

Amber - posted on 02/14/2011

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i would totally have a chip put in my kid! if that meant that the police could find him if ever he went missing or was kidnapped? generally, when a child is kidnapped by [god forbid] a pedophile, they are dead withing 24 hours. a chip that tracks them down in tme? i would never say no to that.

Tara - posted on 02/14/2011

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Absolutely not.
I have no desire to chip my kids.
The only time I could see wanting my kids to be "trackable" is when they are off in the woods at my in laws farm, lol.
I like the idea of a GPS for kids, but the idea of implanting them like some kind of cyborg doesn't sit well with me at all. I would likely go for a band of some sort that is removable only by the parents with a special code or key etc.
The odds of my kids being abducted are slim to none, but I still wouldn't do an implant if they were greater.

[deleted account]

To me, kidnappers are real people, real threats. When I was a kid, one of my classmates was kidnapped while his mom went into a station to pay for gas. It was not the guy's intention to take the kid, he wanted the car, but the kid was in it and the kid died because he was dumped and no one found him until after he had frozen to death.
Another little girl one grade ahead of me in school was kidnapped and never seen again--it's been 22years and she is still a "missing person" and her family is still clinging to hope--it's sad.

I would love to shield myself from the world and think "it won't happen to me" but it could. There is no magical forcefield around me protecting me from all things bad. So if I have to pay a few hundred dollars a year to protect my son from a potential threat, I'm going to. A GPS unit could have helped both of the kids mentioned above. Sure, it may not ever happen to my son, and I certainly hope it never does, but IF it ever happens, I will have a better chance of getting my son back.
It's really no different than setting your alarm before bed or locking your car. The chance of someone breaking into your house is slim to none, but you still set the alarms every night.

As I said, I would not implant the GPS device, but I do think they are a good safety measure. And I would like a more secure way to attach it, just not sure what that might be at the moment...

Jodi - posted on 02/14/2011

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See, I have trouble with the way you use the term "the kidnapper" as if "the kidnapper" isn't just your fear but IS an actual person.......here and now, rather than some remote chance in the future, if you are super unlucky.

[deleted account]

My husband designs biometric security systems for companies--it scans a biologically unique trait, like retinas, finger prints, voice pitch, etc. and turns it into a number for security clearance. He jokes about attaching our son's GPS unit with a band that uses biometrics to disarm or remove, but right now, the affordable technology is too bulk, and the small stuff is just WAY too pricey--we're talking millions at the moment. Right now, we just slip it into the coin pocket of his jeans or into his sock band and hope the kidnapper doesn't think to look for it or change his clothes.
It would be nice to implement something like that once the costs go down.

As for helicopter parenting, I've never actually tracked my son, except for periodically checking to make sure it is working. Mostly, it is there "just in case" for us, it is a small price to pay for the peace of mind that if anything did ever happen to him, we would most likely be able to find him quickly.

Sharon - posted on 02/13/2011

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Desiree & Lacye - good ideas but not to a cop station - to much inboad communication traffic for them as it is. Gonna have to be a private owned thing.

Desiree - posted on 02/13/2011

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LaCi Although I wouldn't use a key, I would use something that it has to have a unique code that belongs only to that parent and child ie the mother would have one code the father another. And it would only release if either or both those coded "keys" are used to unlock the band. Otherwise too many people could make another fake key to open it. (Almost like the coded keys for cars with out the transponder chip in the key you can't start the car.)

LaCi - posted on 02/13/2011

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"I don't like the idea of implants but maybe put one inside a band that if removed by an incorrect means ie cutting it off the thing would scream and and send a distress signal to the nearest cop station. that could work.!"

Now that I could be on board with. band has to be removed with a key or something. Just put it on when you feel the need. Good Idea :)

Desiree - posted on 02/13/2011

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I don't like the idea of implants but maybe put one inside a band that if removed by an incorrect means ie cutting it off the thing would scream and and send a distress signal to the nearest cop station. that could work.!

Sneaky - posted on 02/13/2011

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Yes, if it were available I would do it. Would I have three different monitors so I could track were each child was all the time? No. In fact I doubt I would ever use except in the case of an emergency (I'm in Australia so I have visions of children getting swept away in flood waters).

Of course there would be helicopter parents who abuse it - but you could argue that a child who has a parent that is that obsessed would actually prefer to be tracked remotely and go out and have fun with friends than have their parent follow them at a discreet distance all the time. . . . .

The difference between that and circumcision (as I see it), is that circumcision is a cosmetic procedure, whereas a tracking implant is actually a security measure.

Isobel - posted on 02/12/2011

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sorry...not for a million dollars...no way, no how will I allow my child to be permanently trackable.



In fact, if it becomes the norm to have your bank card chip inserted...I WILL move us to a crazy cult compound if I have to

Sharon - posted on 02/12/2011

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I have to say - I don't think I'd go the implant route. Part of me likes that idea - but of course - we all know it can and probably would be abused.

He's doing ok. He's got his mothers' rapier like wit. Only the crackhead didn't think his comment was so funny.

He texted me right away and through out the day while at school. He worked through his anger - he was pretty determined to get vengeance at first. I told him that I didn't blame him but that he would have to live with the consequences. We discussed the consequences and eventually he sent me a text saying "its not worth it."

Jodi - posted on 02/12/2011

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It's such a small if, that I think implanting a GPS based on the remote "if" IS helicopter parenting. Life is full of risks, unfortunately. I wouldn't feel right tracking my child's every move. Honestly, me letting my son go off on his own to a friend's house, or with a friend to the local basketball courts, to the movies, etc, is also part of me developing a trust relationship with him. I HAVE caught him going elsewhere when he told me he was going somewhere once, and he was punished by my absolute lack of trust. He had to EARN that trust back (and has). I can't see how a GPS is going to assist me in building that relationship with him.

Iridescent - posted on 02/12/2011

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Jodi, while I am more concerned for the need of my autistic kids wandering, I'm not more wary for them than I am for my other kids in this regard. I keep closer tabs on them than anyone, within sight at all times, specializes locks on the doors, etc so they can't put themselves in situations where they will be injured when we can prevent it reasonably. Developmentally our youngest and most needy one is 6 months old (he'll be 4 years next month), but motor skills are about that of a 2 year old, so he can get himself into situations that are really dangerous and simply not understand. But he's not going to be out of my reach for a while yet!

On the other hand, myself, my sister and my cousin were all attempted to be kidnapped as kids. It's not a situation I want to repeat, and as a child, I was so scared! We RAN. Our parents filed police reports, and they were never caught. Estimates are that only 1:7 criminals ever gets caught. Which means for all those in jail/prison, 6 more are not. It is a real risk. And as a child, if I had been kidnapped, I would want it. I'd want my parents to find me.

Katherine - posted on 02/12/2011

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I guess I am a little paranoid, I will admit that. You just hear so many stories of a mother turning her back in a grocery store for a second and poof her child is gone. Or the child is playing outside and disappears. I don't know maybe I watch too much T.V........

Iridescent - posted on 02/12/2011

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I can see the argument for the other direction. Helicopter parenting wouldn't be so severe if there was the knowledge that IF something were to happen, you'd at a minimum be able to find your child. IF.

Jodi - posted on 02/12/2011

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Katherine, I am saying the the RISKS to your child are not so great that it justifies a GPS implant. Not the risks of the implant.



Regardless of the stories given (and crap, I am SOOO sorry for your son, I hope he is ok), I still don't believe the risks are significantly high enough to justify keeping a permanent tab on your child. If they are too young to be without parental supervision, supervise them. If they are old enough to be doing things on their own, then LET them do them on their own.



Edited to add: Amy, I can't comment on your situation, because I don't know the severity of your children's autism, but I don't believe the average child should need a GPS implant.

Iridescent - posted on 02/12/2011

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That is really scary! And it's a reasonable fear. I'd also know what the risks are. As far as I'm aware, it's the same risks as a piercing; site infection. Period.

Katherine - posted on 02/12/2011

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OMG Sharon. That is REALLY scary. I hope he's ok, surely traumatized.

Katherine - posted on 02/12/2011

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Not to go off topic here but I have 37 alerts and they don't seem to be going away!!!!!

And now back on topic.....what kind of risks?

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