Amanda Knox

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Jackie - posted on 12/08/2009

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Maybe it the Canadian in me but it doen't matter if she is innocent or not because the legal system there is messed up. Do a little research on the crowns lawyer i guess thats the prosecutor for you americans. He shouldn't be in any court room much less a murder trial. She got a raw deal; even guilty she should be released on appeal. Giuliano Mignini is awaiting trial for abuse of power in another high profile case yet still working as a prosecutor. We definately wouldn't allow that here in Canada or the USA.

Mary - posted on 12/07/2009

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To me, Dana's last post is probably the most valid and insightful post thus far in this entire thread. ANY "story" that any of us have read is going to be tainted by the author's opinions, no matter how factual the article is attempting to be. I'm sure that the author's country of origin is going to factor in to that as well.

And yes, crimes were "solved" prior to the current advances in forensic science...but the current expectation is that people are exonerated or convicted primarily on more reliable science than circumstantial evidence and witness testimony, which is often found to be variable and shaded by the witnesses belief of innocence or guilt. Of course, things in this case seem so unclear and muddled to me that I'm not sure any of us will ever definitively know what really occurred. I just haven't seen enough irrefutable proof of guilt to convince me of Amanda' Knox's gulit. For example...I don't find it suspicious that her DNA was on her roomate's bra...they LIVED together, and clothes get mixed up all the time. I'm not saying she couldn't have done it...I just don't know that it was proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Obviously the Italian jurors thought otherwise.While it is ultimately there decision that matters most, it doesn't mean I can't have my own opinion of that finding (which is pretty much meaningless, but I have the right to it just the same!).

Dana - posted on 12/07/2009

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I think if we are saying that the US is getting faulty info because the accused person is American then we have to think that the same thing is happening in Britain, since the girl murdered was British. No one wants to think their country is spinning this but I'm sure that all three are.

Mary - posted on 12/07/2009

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Whoa...getting a bit hostile in this thread, and unnecessarily so, in my opinion.

I cannot speak for ANYone else who posted, nor will I try. But...I think that many of us, who have only "followed" this trial, are basing our OPINIONS on the bits and pieces that we have caught on the news in our home countries. For me, in the state of MD, in the USA, all I have seen/heard/read about this trial insinuates that the prosecution painted a picture of a girl who was, as Diana said, a bit odd, not overly compassionate or distraught about her roommate's murder, and into drugs and some other weird shit. She may not be a defendent that garners my sympathy, but that doesn't make her a murderer, either. Again, I have NOT studied this case in-depth, but my OPINION, based on the things I have seen about this trial, suggests that there was not an abundance of concrete, indisputible forensic evidence that Amanda Knox was definitively involved in her roomate's murder. I think that is what most of us are hung up on...the suggestion that a person (regardless of her nationality) was convicted based on a lot of circumstantial evidence, and her (unlikable) character and seemingly unfeeling response to a tragedy. In my perfect world, a person's conviction would be more heavily weighted on physical, scientific evidence.

[deleted account]

Hmm...I'm not saying trial through media never happens here, because I think it does happen everywhere all too often. But that's not to say that it's right whether it happens here, in Italy, or in Timbuktu. And I did say that I don't *think* there's enough evidence...It's my opinion from what I've read that there's just not enough to go on. What I read was not an American source, and it stated that the only forensic evidence was a knife that didn't match the wound pattern but did have both girls' DNA on it and a bit of the boyfriend's DNA on the girl's bra clasp. Now it goes without saying that I (and the rest of us) haven't been in the coutroom...But the point of this was to ask our opinion on her guilt or innocence, so we have to answer somehow. By the "well you weren't in the coutroom" logic, none of us should be convinced that she is either innocent or guilty...

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Mary - posted on 12/08/2009

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Quoting Laura:

I'm not really trying to stir up shit or to be a bitch...but that is still an American Reporter, on an American Channel...I would be curious about opinions outside America (I'm not saying that it would be right or wrong...clearly I am too lazy to research the Italian judicial system...)



I just think it's flat-out wrong that nationality is even an issue - in both the trial and in the media.  Why the hell should it matter??  Especially since there has been no indication that the girl was murdered because her ethnic identity? I personally have no attachment to Amanda Knox because she and I are both Americans (considering all the character-related testimony, I find it a bit of an embarassment), but I do find the possibilty that a potentially innocent human may have been convicted on a lot of inconclusive evidence unsettling.  It wouldn't matter to me if she was my neighbor, an Australian, Jamacian, or whatever if there was a solid and incontovertible case against her.  Again, I was not in the courtroom, and I am by no means a judicial expert, but that just seems not to be what happened in this trial.



I do wonder if my expectations are based on the of American justice.  Like Laura, I'm just too damned lazy to research the Italian judicial system, so my frame of reference is based on what the American system is supposed to be (trust me, our system is not always perfect!).  However, when you live in a foreign country, you should expect to play by their rules, and suffer their consequences, so perhaps this whole argument is a bit moot...

Evelyn - posted on 12/08/2009

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I'm fully aware of that...and I am sure that perhaps a "spin" is being put on it...but wouldn't that be the same "spin" that would be put on any other country's reporting? Italians would say no...it's not because she's American because that let's them save face...and we would do the opposite. But regardless of where you are from...with the LACK of evidence that was presented (or not presented) in this trial...it would make any halfway intelligent person question the outcome of this case.

Oh and the fact that the jury wasn't even sequestered during the trial says VOLUMES. What the hell kind of backwards country allows it's jurors to be influenced by **THE SPIN** that I'm sure they put on Amanda? omg have you seen some of what has been said about her? Character assassination at it's finest. Disgusting and pathetic. If you think this was a fair and unbiased trial then you are sadly mistaken.

Isobel - posted on 12/08/2009

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I'm not really trying to stir up shit or to be a bitch...but that is still an American Reporter, on an American Channel...I would be curious about opinions outside America (I'm not saying that it would be right or wrong...clearly I am too lazy to research the Italian judicial system...)

Evelyn - posted on 12/08/2009

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Quoting Wolf Blitzer on CNN yesterday... "Many experts from all over the world agree that Amanda Knox should not have been convicted due to the lack of conclusive evidence. Many believe it is the OVERWHELMING ANTI-AMERICAN SENTIMENT in the region that ultimately resulted in the verdict. There have been questions of validity of some of the circumstantial evidence presented in this case"

So ya see ladies...I'm not the only one who feels this way. :-)

Isobel - posted on 12/07/2009

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I don't think the idea was that you would automatically assume she was innocent because she is American, but if you are being given skewed information because you are in America...Cathy actually said that she believed her media was skewed because the victim was British in her very first post.

[deleted account]

Jo, I was just answering your question as both an American and someone who thinks the evidence is inconclusive. I don't think that my being American has any bearing on my feelings...There are plenty of Americans who've committed murder and who I support being put in jail. I just don't think, from what I've seen of this case, that the evidence was there. I wasn't offended...And I'm not sure why you're so offended at my answer. My apologies if anything I said came off as rude or offense, because it was *not* my intent. I was simply answering the questions posed in your post with a "no." At least for me, the woman's citizenship has no bearing on my thoughts about the case.

?? - posted on 12/06/2009

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So you're just another person that assumes something means one thing even when it's clearly stated in a completely different way? Do you make a habit of adding your own meaning to things? Why would you want to take something offensively? Is it really that hard for you, and others to just take what words say at face value? Is it natural for you to just jump on the defense rather than just answer the question?



I repeat;



Could it be that the people here who are saying that it's inconclusive are also just being jaded by the fact that she is American and regardless of whether she did it or not, you want to just believe that she didn't, cause she's American?





When I posed that question, it wasn't a dig at you, or anyone, it was a question. Asking the people who are saying that it's inconclusive if that is a reason why they are thinking that way? Because the media works both ways. Just the same as I would have to ask someone in Italy if they think the girl is guilty because she is an American, and not the evidence.









Why do you (IN GENERAL) people find it so fucking necessary to take shit personally and offensively? I'm so sick of people doing that. Read the paragraph, statement, question, WHATEVER and take it at face value... if it doesn't apply to you, don't take it personally, don't add your own meaning, don't assume it's meant to be offensive, if you're not sure ASK and if you wanna take it offensively and you are on the defense I'm gonna figure it's because it hit a nerve.



I'm seriously bored of people taking shit personally and getting offended and being defensive over general statements. Intelligent conversation goes out the window before it even starts around COM because too many people do that...

[deleted account]

I think it was the end of that paragraph, actually...It was sort of the idea that the "people here who are saying that it's inconclusive" part referred to all of us who think that, hence it being plural. If not oh well, my bad...



But yeah-it's sad that it's a silly notion, but it seems to be. History tells me that it's a silly notion. Experience tells me that it's a silly notion. Yet I still want to believe it.

?? - posted on 12/06/2009

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Why did you think, and continue to think, what I said was directed at you? Especially after I already elaborated on what I was saying? Unless you're caught up on the end of the paragraph...



At least we agree that wanting every human to be decent and not harm/kill each other is impractical and a silly notion to entertain... I think the fact that it is a silly notion bugs me even more than the idea of wanting it bugs me... it's sad that humans can be such vile creatures when we're otherwise capable of amazing things.

[deleted account]

No, I didn't miss that...I just don't think it's relevant. Not to me, anyway. I care not if she's American, Nigerian, or Italian. I just think everyone deserves a fair trial, and because of media I don't think Amanda Knox had one-and I think there are too many others like her-in America as well as other nations. I don't *want* to think that any human is capable of murdering another...In fact, I'd like to think that no one, of any nationality, is capable of sexual assault and murder. But we all know that's incredibly untrue and it's impractical to have such a silly notion.

?? - posted on 12/06/2009

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No one can say there wasn't enough conclusive evidence unless they were there to see exactly how much conclusive or inconclusive evidence there was.... the "lol" is a hint towards sarcasm, silliness, not being serious, ha ha you know, a joke, obviously there aren't any members of the jury here, I thought we were all intelligent enough to catch that...



Your opinion isn't being discounted at all, the overall attitude and tone that comes from saying something like "Whether she did it or not, there was not enough conclusive evidence to send this girl to jail for 26 years." as if you know for sure was what I was being sarcastic about...



I'm sorry you missed that...



My guess is you're just picking at the beginning of that paragraph because of the rest of the paragraph...



"Could it be that the people here who are saying that it's inconclusive are also just being jaded by the fact that she is American and regardless of whether she did it or not, you want to just believe that she didn't, cause she's American?"



It's an observation. A question. A thought that I had while reading replies, here and elsewhere about this... if you're wanna get butt hurt about it and pick at nothing because I stated a thought I had, oh well, that's your issue.

[deleted account]

Quoting Jo:



Quoting Evelyn:
Whether she did it or not, there was not enough conclusive evidence to send this girl to jail for 26 years. Ridiculous.






Quoting Jo:
And to say that there's not enough conclusive evidence? I wasn't aware that we had an Italian member in the jury here lol Did you see any of the evidence yourself?






Quoting Diana:
But the point of this was to ask our opinion on her guilt or innocence, so we have to answer somehow. By the "well you weren't in the coutroom" logic, none of us should be convinced that she is either innocent or guilty...




Follow the thought process there Diana, you should be able to grasp the flow of thought.
But thanks there, Cap'n Obvious.


I got the point in the first place. My point, Jo, was that I also said I don't think there is enough conclusive evidence-and if that opinion is going to be discounted because we're not members of the jury and haven't actually seen the evidence, then both sides' thoughts should be. From what I've seen, they haven't proven much aside from that she was a really weird girl who didn't like her roomie and smoked a lot of pot.

Evelyn - posted on 12/06/2009

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I was asked my opinion, I gave it based on what I and basically everyone else has heard or seen. If you don't like it or don't agree with it....oh well. Moving on......

?? - posted on 12/06/2009

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Quoting Evelyn:

Whether she did it or not, there was not enough conclusive evidence to send this girl to jail for 26 years. Ridiculous.




Quoting Jo:

And to say that there's not enough conclusive evidence? I wasn't aware that we had an Italian member in the jury here lol Did you see any of the evidence yourself?




Quoting Diana:

But the point of this was to ask our opinion on her guilt or innocence, so we have to answer somehow. By the "well you weren't in the coutroom" logic, none of us should be convinced that she is either innocent or guilty...




Follow the thought process there Diana, you should be able to grasp the flow of thought.

But thanks there, Cap'n Obvious.

JL - posted on 12/05/2009

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I have heard about the case but not kept up with it and I am not privy to the specific evidence so I don't really have much of an opinion besides hoping that the correct ruling be made based on the foresnic evidence. If she is guilty I hope she gets what she deserves..if she is innocence I hope she is released and sent back home. I just feel bad for the family of the girl that was murdered.

Charlie - posted on 12/05/2009

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I read about this years ago and it made me sick to my stomach .
I dont know if she is guilty or not but if she isnt i hope she is found innocent if she is guilty i hope she rots in prison .

Lindsay - posted on 12/05/2009

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I was shocked as well but don't know a whole lot of specifics in the case. Anything I heard were news briefs in the US and they leaned toward her being innocent. And I'm not so naive to only think our reporters are correct and not biased. It's a terrible situation for all parties involved. Her parents have claimed they will fight like hell to get her free. I do hope that if she is innocent, she will get released. Beyond that, I can't form much more of an opinion.

Isobel - posted on 12/05/2009

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I find it actually a little rude and presumptive as well...to assume that their court system is not as good as America's. I may be assuming a little myself here, but how many of us have studied the Italian court system?

Isobel - posted on 12/05/2009

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I saw a program about this murder ages ago...on dateline or twenty-twenty or some show like that. I can't remember exactly what happened but I DO remember walking away with the distinct feeling that she was guilty. I think Americans are only up in arms because she IS an American. None of us were in the court room, we DON'T know what the evidence was.

?? - posted on 12/05/2009

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From what I can see, I'm sure there is a lot of different information coming from a lot of different sources. The US and the UK and Italy will ALL have DIFFERENT reports about what happened. To say nothing like this would happen in the US... people are tried in the media all the time. That's just ridiculous. It happens everywhere.



And to say that there's not enough conclusive evidence? I wasn't aware that we had an Italian member in the jury here lol Did you see any of the evidence yourself? Could it be that the people here who are saying that it's inconclusive are also just being jaded by the fact that she is American and regardless of whether she did it or not, you want to just believe that she didn't, cause she's American?



Either way, the family is gonna 'fight for her' so if she's innocent, well she will probably be proven innocent. For now though, there's enough circumstantial evidence to say that she is guilty to a jury of people - jury's can make a mistake but they make the right decision too.

Evelyn - posted on 12/05/2009

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I agree..circumstantial evidence is NOT enough to convict someone of murder. Most of my circle has come to the conclusion that once they found out she was American, she was screwed. Whether she did it or not, there was not enough conclusive evidence to send this girl to jail for 26 years. Ridiculous. Another reason I'm so thankful I'm an American, while we may be screwed up in some ways like every other country...this is NOT one of them.

[deleted account]

She may be guilty-but I don't think there's enough evidence to conclusively say that she did anything. here's only a tiny amoun of forensic evidence, and the other evidence is circumstantial. I also think it's weird that the jury wasn't kept from watching media coverage of the trial-it seems as though Amanda Knox was tried and convincted in the court of public opinion, and that coverage definitely has an influence on jurors.

Mary - posted on 12/05/2009

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I agree with Mary Elizabeth...from all I've read, it seems like the actual scientific evidence just wasn't there, and I find it very odd that they had already convicted someone for this crime.

I do think Cathy has a point...all of our views are based on news reports that are slanted by our country of origin. The American news is going to be a bit biased, as is the British news going to be slanted in a different light. Makes it hard to get a good read on things in either locale.

ME - posted on 12/05/2009

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It does seem that she has exhibited some foolish behavior; however, we usually require actual forensic evidence to convict people of something like murder...and there seemed to have been none of that. In addition, there was someone convicted already who admitted to acting alone...that seems problematic to me...I wasn't part of the jury, so I don't have all of the evidence, and I didn't see her behavior first hand...but I have a feeling that justice has not been served.

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