An interesting debate

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[deleted account]

So when my family was on welfare I was supposed to dress myself and my children like bums to make sue no one thought we were abusing the system Damn... I must have missed that memo... Or I tore it up becuase I have PRIDE in myself...



~ Our clothes were mostly bought before we had financial issues or they were hand-me-downs.

~ We had a BMW for a while, but my husband had bougt it really cheap off a family friend who coudn't afford to take care of it (it wasn't expensive for us to have it because my hubby could fix it - the friend couldn't and had to pay proessionals).

~ I saved my change for 9 months to buy myself a Coach purse one Christmas (the Christmas we were on welfare - and I went to the Coach outlet near us and got the purse on super sale at just over $100).

~ Our kids wear Sketchers shoes because 1: the outlet store is near our house (and the shoes are always on sale) and 2: they last longer so we don't hvave to buy shoes as often (we buy new shoes because the kids grow out of them, not because they're worn out. If I buy almost any other shoes they wea out before the kids grow out of them...).

~ We have really nice carseats for the kids because my parents bought them for us.

~ Our oldest wears a lot of designer clothes becuse most of her hand-me-downs are from family friends that make 6-7 figures a year.

~ My hubby's uncle is very well off and buys our kids really nice clothes (and gives us generous gift cards to really expensive stores).

~ I have a few pieces of good jewelry that we bought before my husband's industry went down the drain (he's a house painter).

~ We save our change in a big water jug and cash the money in for vacations (last time we did this was 2 weeks ago and we had $250 in change - we drove to the ocean and spent a night in a hotel, which is something we wouldn't even think about doing if we didn't have our "vacation jar" for our change)

~ We live in a very nice area (the average house rents for around $1600 in our neighborhood), but we're only able to afford it because a family friend owns the house and gives us really low rent. Because we live where we are, our daughter is able to go to one of the nicest public schools around and we know ow lucky we are.



So, you may have seen me at the welfare office, getting out of my BMW which has very expensive car seats in it. I'm dressed nicely (not designer, but nice) and I LIKE putting on my few pieces of good jewelry when I get out of the house (no matter where I'm going) because it makes me feel good about myself. If you saw my kids (who I never had to take to the welfare office because I' lucky enough to have my MIL nearby who watches the kids when we need her to) you would see well-dressed little girls with Sketchers shoes and you may see my oldest in a shirt with her school's name and known we live in a really nice area. You may judge me, but you'd be wrong. We live a very humble lifestyle and I see nothing wrong in taking, and wearing, nice things that are given to us. We live within our budget (which is very strict - even the welfare worker said it was a great budget) and when we do "splurge" on something it's something that will last (like the kids' shoes).



We're off welfare now, but our lifestyle has stayed the same. We still get the nice clothes as presents or hand-me-downs (and we just got a new consignment shop with really nice clothes near our house! woo hoo!) and we still like to look presentable when we go out. We no loner have the BMW, but our car, while older, is always clean and shiny (our 8 year-old LOVES helping Daddy wax the car! lol). We have pride in how we look and how we present our family in public and I see nothing wrong with that...

Isobel - posted on 07/10/2011

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Yes there are people who abuse the welfare system. There are also people who steal purses from little old ladies walking down the street minding their own business.

Walking near old ladies hasn't come up for debate lately.

I think that poverty is a vicious cycle...that it becomes almost impossible to get off of welfare once you depend on it.

Welfare does not pay enough to afford interview clothes, transportation, and education, never mind the fact that the job you are most likely in line for is minimum wage and does not include benefits...

how on earth are you expected to get off of welfare when once you do get a minimum wage job you will be automatically expected to pay all of your (medical, prescription, dentist, optometrist) costs once you do....

who in their right mind would choose to work for minimum wage against accepting welfare and actually being able to take care of their children?

Amie - posted on 07/10/2011

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Schenkers,



The examples being given are to show that just because you (general you for everyone) make a snap judgement about someone you see walking into the welfare office - doesn't make it true.



Again, no one can extrapolate the information they may or may not have for their area and use it to paint the entire system that way across the entire country.



While not everyone may do that, there are obviously more than a few who do.

Rachel - posted on 07/09/2011

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Ok I just have to add alittle more to what I have previously said. As I said my family receives assistance and I am very grateful for that. With that being said my children do occasionally wear name brand clothing and I do have name brand sneakers. These are things that were gifts or were bought when we had money. We also have a large tv in our living room which was also bought when we had money and on lay away. It does not matter what car someone drives or clothes they wear you do not know how they received those items they could be gifts or gotten at better times when they did not need assistance. maybe you go into the welfare office and see a woman that has brand name clothing on or her nails done or what have you do you ask her where she got her clothing? I know in my area we have a discount store that sells name brand clothing and accessories for less than what you could even get at walmart or other such stores. Also there are consignment stores that often carry name brand used items for a fraction of the cost. I do not think we should be judging people on what they wear or the car they drive it may not even be their vehicle. I know that I will occasionally drive my parents vehicles if my stepdad is working on mine and theirs are alot nicer than mine and if i would have to go to the welfare office i dont think anyone has a right to judge me because I am driving a nicer car. I know there are people that do abuse the system but unless you know them personally you have no right to judge anyone.

ME - posted on 07/10/2011

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I think the point is...that just because SOME people abuse the system doesn't mean that you can tell by looking, who those people are. My family and I are on Medicaid...I occasionally have to pick up our medical cards from the HS office. I wear my sapphire wedding jewelry all the time. When we bought it, we had no children, my husband was the GM of a store, and I had a full time job...I'm sure that people have thought badly of me because of it. There is abuse of our system here too; I live near Chicago after all...I know there are areas of the country that are worse for this type of abuse than others, and it must be hard for people who live in those areas to tolerate that abuse. I think that the women who have pointed out that the worst abuse is by providers have an interesting point...It's never public condemnation of doctors we hear in this country; it's always negativity regarding the victims of poverty...which causes even more shame than we already feel...

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Kathryn - posted on 01/07/2013

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Welfare is a very emotional topic.People who work and have never been on it, will generally have a different view than someone who has used it as a "helping hand". Even the ones who have never used it, like myself, have no problem at all with it being used this way.
The problem is when we see it, in our opinion, being abused. We do not want to see people on welfare at restaurants, take out coffee places,buying junk food, expensive nails/hair salons.
We want people to be too busy looking for employment or improving their skills.We want them buying food and making meals, and not buying convenience meals at the supermarket.
The topic seems to be whether MOST people abuse the system.The ones that take offense to this statment, may not be in this category. They also MAY be in this category, if they are going to restaurants, fast food, junk food etc places. Welfare must be too generous, if they can afford this, as these are "treats". So many people keep stating that welfare is too low to live on. Obviously, that is not true, or people are rorting the system.
People on this thread are mentioning vitamins. Personally, I think if you have a varied and balanced diet, they are not needed.If it makes you happy to take them, that is fine too.
How much does it cost to feed a family. Well this family of 8 in Las Vegas do it for an average of 40cents per meal, per person. http://www.theprudenthomemaker.com/
It was from necessity. I get the impression, they did not go on welfare, or use foodstamps. Not everyone needs to go to this extreme, but it can certainly be integrated into your current lifestyle, if you are on a tight budget.

Melissa - posted on 07/14/2011

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In my opinion, nothing in this world is error proof. Everything has some glitch or loop hole, and when someone has a will, there's a way -- even if it means deception. State assistance was put in place with the main goal in mind of helping those who need it. Of course the system wasn't put in place so people could take advantage of it. It depends upon the person, and of course there's good and bad people in the world. However, where I stand with government assistance is that maybe US citizenship should be an eligibility requirement. Both of my parents are natives of Vietnam and came to the US in the 70's, and obtained their citizenship. If you have the right to be in this country, then you should have the right to reap it's benefits.

[deleted account]

To think the majority of people who are on assistance abuse the system is quite prejudice. I was on assistance before, i DID NOT abuse the system. I used it to help me get on my feet, ethically.

[deleted account]

I guess i could ask you the same thing. Show me statistics and numbers that it is not. Really again MY OPINION and from experience. If you wanna prove me wrong with cold hard numbers and facts then go ahead i mean its not like it would be a bad thing if i was proved wrong . . .

[deleted account]

I'm sorry Maria but if you're going to sit down and emphatically state that it is a majority, I'm going to have to ask you for your numbers and source.

[deleted account]

You definitely shouldnt be offended because like I stated in my previous statment I was also on it at one point or another. And this is also just my opinions.

[deleted account]

Ok first of all i clearly didnt say ALL of them. I said majority so that didnt answer my question. And medicaid is health insurance yes it is government assistance but im more concerned ( and this is just me not anything else) with the TANF, foodstamps and other aspects of welfare.

Katherine - posted on 07/14/2011

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Considering I am on it and not abusing it, I am offended by that statement. I JUST saw it because Jen pointed it out.
It is crazy there because of all of the caseloads. Each worker here has upwards of 500. I live in MI. They get tired and burned out, that's why it's like that. They also don't have all of the resources they need.

[deleted account]

"Do people seriously think that the majority of the people on welfare dont abuse it in some where or other?? "

Considering I work almost daily with Medicaid recipiants, NO they are not all abusers of the system.

[deleted account]

AMY: DAAAANG!!! that really sucks! ive never actually heard of a personal story where someone got caught that is CRAZY haha

Iridescent - posted on 07/14/2011

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Just read the first page, so don't know what I missed...but welfare fraud does sometimes get caught! My mother was caught and is STILL paying it back (ha ha, bitch), and her youngest is 23. She'll be paying it back until the day she dies, and now she also has to work until the day she dies because she has welfare fraud on her record and will never qualify for another state assistance program again.

As for the vitamins - the typical one a day vits, I totally agree $100/month is excessive. My daughter's though - she has a metabolic disease and $100/month would be a breeze in comparison! Hers are thousands all told. The reason is that they have to first off be pharmaceutical grade amino acids and supplements. Second, she needs a variety of them, and immense doses of the right ones. No pre-compounded version is able to be used because it's too high in some that would harm her, and way too low in the ones she specifically needs. So it just depends on what was ordered and why. I mean, medical grade, over the counter, probiotics are around $40/month right there. Could be that simple.

[deleted account]

Im sure i could find statistics that say how many people were caught defrauding the system. But that would be way off since there are so many that have not been caught and reported.

[deleted account]

Actually if you said that and that was your opinion i'd actually agree with your opinion. I acutally do think hispanics and african americans are the ones the make up the majority of the people on welfare and therefor are probably the root of the abusing problem ( followed by caucasion) Do people seriously think that the majority of the people on welfare dont abuse it in some where or other?? Thats crazy to me. Just look at how it is set up. If it werent abused at all( or as much) im sure the facilities would be nicer and more helpful ,people who needed it would actually get assissted and they would want/ be able to get off of government assisstance.

[deleted account]

Maria what if I said that the majority of one group - say Hispanics were the worst abusers and that's my opinion. I have nothing to back it up and frankly you don't either. CMS (Center for Medicaid and Medicare Services) has said that the vast majority of abuse comes from the providers. One provider who is billing dishonestly will cost you, me and every other taxpayer much more than the 10 people you may personally know who abuse the system. That's a fact that can be verified.

[deleted account]

I dont know what you know but i would bet a lot that the majority of the people abuse the system. Thats my opinion and thats from being around it. i honestly think a large percentage of people on welfare abuse it.

Stifler's - posted on 07/14/2011

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I'm actually ROFL-ing at the suggestion of reimbursement for vitamins. I know a LOT of people who are separated for Centrelink reasons. The problem is that they tax the shit out of everyone who works so you're better off on welfare and having a healthcare card entitles you to extremely cheap daycare even if you don't work, it costs less to go on the Tilt train and you don't have to pay at the doctor. So why not live off welfare.

[deleted account]

Even if each of us knows 5 people who abuse the system, it does not make the majority abusers. Why is that hard to grasp.

[deleted account]

I do believe a lot of people abuse the system which really does get me severaly heated because they ruin it for others that actually do need the assisstance and do intend to use it correctly. I know this woman who is a mother of six and is a big time hoodrat her job is to work the system. She put three of her six kids on disability claiming they are "slow" which they are NOT! i love those kids and feel so bad for their situation. . . She is also on disability herseld. gets about 700 in foodstamps and TANF!! she gets so much money from the government it is insane!! And her kids dont even live with her!



She lives with her boyfriend at his house who has a job and gives her money all the time. her kids live with their dad in a three bedroom house that the grandma owns. In one room the grandma stays in, another room an uncle stays in, in another room another uncle his wife and their baby stay in. then they converted what wouldve been the washer/dryer room into a bedroom and that is where the six kids ( 3 girls aged 15,14,12 and three boys aged 2,4,6) and the dad stay in. Its ridiculous and compltely sickens me to my stomache and CPS has been called on them two times and nothing had happened. the mother and father are alcoholics drinking everyday and the mom does coke. If i could adopt all those kids i really would :(



Anyways she is what you call a welfare quenn. Now me and my situation, when we first had our baby we did get foodstamps and it really did help us out and we didnt have much. then after six months we were compltely off them. Fast forward a year later my husband got laid off ( the company shut down) and applied for unemployment they have been giving us the run around not helping us out at all and we really do need it! It just pisses me off i see people like her taking advantage of the system and then there is people like me and my family who are working our butts off and under the unfortuante circumstances need some assisstance for the time being and cant get shit . .. . seriously what is wrong with our government!

Dawn - posted on 07/13/2011

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Some people actually need the help but there are some people who make It their "job" to be on welfare. And those are mostly the really uneducated people In our society. It makes me mad too. I think all 50 states should enforce a drug test and if you fail then you don't get welfare. Why should our hard earned money go to people who can't or wont get their lives In order? They shouldn't keep getting hand outs. There also should be a law that only lets a person or family be on welfare for 6 months. My husband lost his business, one of our properties went Into foreclosure and him and I still pulled ourselves up and got jobs to take care of us and our family. There's no reason people should be living off the welfare system for more than 6 months. We didn't even get welfare while we went through all of that. The government Is not your baby's daddy.

[deleted account]

No people on welfare don't have to dress like bums.When there is family with two kids and there driving a flash car, going on holiday's and have the best of clothes i ask myself.If she can do all of this on a family claim(husband, wife and two kids)Then you find out more times than not there claiming separate and husband is also working.Then of course you can afford a lot more.
My partner claims for us all.We drive a 98 car now
We dress well but in what we can afford on a small wage.I have a lot of designer clothes we could afford with all those years of employment.So we look great but we drive what we can afford now a 98 car and no holidays for us.Unless we save for a year or two before hand lol.Its not very wise at the moment to be going on hoildays, bills etc come first.Its hard to save on a small wage.:-(

Adrienne - posted on 07/10/2011

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That's right to an extent and definitely wrong to an extent. I can honestly say, I have heard of and SEEN tons of people that live off the state, and even trade their food stamps for drugs (pathetic!!). My (to be) ex's brother and girlfriend live off the state and it disgusts me! He is honestly a fat lazy slob, who won't even go out and mow his own lawn! They get housing assitance, food assistance, medical assistance and WIC, yet they have the same Verizon cell plan my ex and I had ($200 a month) which by the way is MORE than their rent because of housing assitance! And they spend all their food assitance money on junk food, then borrow money from other people because, somehow they don't have enough money for gas in their cars or food! I made my ex stop giving them money, they never return it of course! I think, just from the past year, they owe us about $1,000....his girlfriend stays home with her kids, his kid and their child together....yet she is perfectly capable of working and he is perfectly capable of getting a better job, he is just lazy and doesn't want to, and if she goes back to work, their rent will go up because of the increase of income. My ex is staying with them and they can't let the section 8 landlord find out because their rent will go up....their rent is $160 a month!!! How in the hell can you not afford that?! People like THAT need to be off the welfare, they are just using and abusing it.
Now, I have a just turned one year old daughter, and am pregnant with our second. I have been a stay at home mom since she was born, June 29th 2010, and during this pregnancy, my husband became like the rest of his family, cheated on me and left us...I watch my nieces everyday for a little income but isn't much. Being 8 months pregnant, I can't get a job right now! I got on food assistance and medicaid for this pregnancy and to help cover co-pays for my daughter, temporarily until I have the baby and get on my feet again. I actually NEED the help, the court ordered my ex to pay child support on 2 kids (since I'm pregnant with our second) instead of 1 kid and spousal support until the baby is born....the child support isn't even close to what we need to get by on, so these programs really help. And I hate being on them at the same time because of the stereo-type "welfare people" get...I know when people see me they assume I'm just some slut that sleeps around and has probably 2 different baby daddy's, when truth is my husband was just a completely different person than he led me to believe and left us and doesn't come around anymore! There are two sides to every story and I think the people who need it should most definitely get it! But the lazy, druggy POS's who just don't want to work...need to get off their asses and get a real job!!!

Dana - posted on 07/10/2011

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Oh, I'm sure there are those that do that. I'm just not one of them. :)

Jenn - posted on 07/10/2011

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There are FAR more abusers of Medicaid and Medicare who are providers! Billings for medical care that didn't even take place. Medicines, equipment and services that were either never needed or ever received. It is disgusting because it is causing tax payers a fortune and recipients get screwed. There are far too few provider regulations..

Dana - posted on 07/10/2011

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People really need to quit applying what is said here to themselves. There ARE those who abuse the system and then there ARE those who don't.

[deleted account]

Hopefully I'll be well enough to go to work tomorrow and i'll dig up the actual numbers (from CMS) that show the majority of Medicaid abuse is from providers, not users. That's really important here. I'm not excusing the $40 manicure by any means but the physical therapist that bills for 10 patients a day while only seeing 5 is the bigger issue. The NYS Medicaid reimbursement rate for PT (how sad that I memorize this nonsense) is $56 per treatment, $89 for evaluation. Now Let's take that 56 times the five patients NOT treated and that's just ONE day and one provider. Like I said, as soon as I'm able to drag my tail into work, I'll get the exact numbers.

Katherine - posted on 07/10/2011

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It's a HUGE problem in my area. You're lucky if you get a hold of your case manager EVER. That's how big their case loads are. If you go up there plan on being there all day. It's awful how many people abuse it in Detroit.

Dana - posted on 07/10/2011

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For anyone who has questioned me about my knowledge about my area....



I know that it's a fact in my area because it's a well discussed problem, in the papers and within our local government. We also have various areas with section 8 housing, where you will see examples of what Brandi is talking about as far as well dressed people, iphones (or nice cells), nice cars...etc...



Like I said, it all depends on YOUR area. Just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not happening. I just happen to live in a shitty area where the culture is, don't work - collect from the government.

Katherine - posted on 07/10/2011

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I can't WAIT until I have my second interview with this one company. I have a job but it doesn' pay enough, so I am looking for a salaried instead of hourly position.

If I get this job it would help tremendously. So I LOVE to work.

[deleted account]

In my estate alone i know for a fact.Most women are claiming single mothers while living with the father of there kids and then there is a number of those men who work and claim unemployment and the others just claim unemployment.Its huge in my town the amount of people who abuse the system.Its not right but there is no employment.My partner is looking for jobs aboard now.Many have no desire to ever work.They like claiming.

Katherine - posted on 07/10/2011

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I'm right there with you Theresa! Right there. Only mine's been the last 5 years. My ex is a gambler. He cost us everything. And so we had to go on welfare. Then he got a job and lost it and we had to go on welfare again. He got booted when we separated and I stayed on.

Some people get into rough spots, some people abuse it. The ones that abuse it should be caught (like here you can't get away with it) and serve time and fines.

[deleted account]

Well... this post is going pretty much the way most welfare posts go.

I would just like to go on record as saying.... never in my life have I had a manicure. I own an $8 purse. My mom paid for my piece of crap van. I've had one professional haircut in the past 5 years.... and it was a Christmas present from a friend. My 3rd and final child was a newborn when I went on assistance. Um... am I forgetting anything. ;) Oh, wait.... 90% of my clothes (and the clothes of my kids) except for things like underwear.... are hand-me-down's from other people. ;) And I may look like a physically abled body, but I am only working 2-3 part time days/week and I'm at an all time lifetime high of constant, extreme exhaustion. You can't SEE all 'disabilities'.....

Amie - posted on 07/09/2011

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Judging a book by it's cover.

It'd be no different than me walking into an assistance office on an off day - for whatever reason, maybe I need to meet someone there, etc. - and looking like crap. Then having someone make a snap judgment about me because I'm looking less than stellar and I just MUST be on assistance.

In reality, we have a 6 figure income and I'm just visiting.

It's easy to typecast people going by an outward impression.

After all, we are obviously fairly well off. I SHOULD look a certain way all the time.... right??

It goes both ways. People need to stop stereotyping when they, really, have NO clue about strangers.

If it's someone you know, that's one thing. To turn around and extrapolate that little bit of information and use it to form you opinion about everyone - ya well. I have no words really.

I understand we all have biases but jeese.

[deleted account]

well maybe you should report those people because its against the law to withhold information about a crime. Its called being an accessory to the crime.

[deleted account]

Ok, but those aren't "most people". You're making sweeping judgements. Everyone is jaded by their own experience with something, and I totally get where you're coming from, because I know several people who lied on applications, or are abusing a system they could otherwise do without, BUT, those aren't MOST......those people are probably a minority.

[deleted account]

Because maybe they owned those things prior to needing assistance?!!!

I understand your point, Brandi, but I just think you're stereotyping and assuming a lot of things. Bottom line is, unless you know someone's situation, you can't say anything for certain. Judging people won't help the welfare system, or anyone who relies on it.

[deleted account]

Let me clarify for you. In my opinion if someone is wearing top of the line clothing and accessories to match and everything else...I think if they can afford all of that why cant they afford to buy groceries or anything else with out assistance?

[deleted account]

So if your recieving assistance you have to wear olddirty clothes?judging the book by its cover. What if she has a mental problem like u said. what if someone donated clothes to her?

Amie - posted on 07/09/2011

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I have a question. Do you guys even know FOR SURE that assistance is what they are getting? Are you sure they're not picking up rent payments directly from the welfare office for tenants that they have?

I know the office in my province sometimes do it that way. Which leads to people around here jumping to conclusions - when really, they haven't a clue.

I only know what I know because I have a friend who works with our social assistance. She's an advocate for those with complaints or appeals against social assistance. She has their entire (and I do mean entire, those things are huge) hand book on how things work. Even the stuff they don't want the people on assistance knowing. Like how to qualify for furniture, etc.

[deleted account]

Chatty- I would argue both only because I see alot of young people having kids only to use the system, these are people in their early 20's doin this where I live. If their is nothing medically, physically wrong with you, there is no reason why they cant work and then try to get help if its needed.

[deleted account]

What constitues "abusing the system"? I'm curious what someone would have to do in order for it to be considering abuse? Are you guys talking about someone who lies on their application, or someone who you think doesn't need it?

Rosie - posted on 07/09/2011

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i am curious as to how you guys KNOW that for a fact. i feel sometimes that the image of the escalade driving, perfect nails and hair welfare recipients is overexaggerated. i'm not trying to make it seem like you know nothing of your area cause i sure as hell don't know anything about your areas, but really, how do you KNOW??

Dana - posted on 07/09/2011

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And this is exactly why I said in my post to begin with that each state is different and each area within a city is different. I can tell you right now, that YES, just like Brandi, the majority of people in my town abuse the welfare system. Does that mean the majority of everyone in the US are abusing it, no. That's all she's saying people...

[deleted account]

Btw if you want people to get drug tested you are really asking for invasion of privacy.would you want a job to summon all your text messages and listen to your phone calls before you got a job? I sure as hell dont. Its not fair to the children to get denied medicaid or food stamps because there parents do drugs...this is a country where you are innocent until proven guilty. So unless there is reason to be drug tested it shouldnt be allowed.

[deleted account]

I a good debate but brandi..please state facts..statistics..numbers..cuz when you "most" are you referring to the people you know?because I highly doubt you know "most"of the people in your state or this country. When you can prove with a number that "most" people on govt assistants are lazy then you will win me over.

Rosie - posted on 07/09/2011

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i know that illegals children can get medicaid if they are US citizens, but not food stamps or welfare. i'm sure that some people think their kids shouldn't qualify cause they shouldn't of been here in the first place, but they are here and they are citizens, are you prepared to judge which UScitizen qualifies for benefits, cause i sure am not?
people really cannot qualify for welfare without a social security number, it's the law. heres something saying in colorado they have to provide proof of citizenship and social security numbers.http://www.ehow.com/info_8044504_colorad...

[deleted account]

Then by all means please explain to me why that option is on the app. Now im being serious, not rude or anything.

[deleted account]

lol. no government is going to allow illegal immigrants to receive government funding. if you have no id, no birth certificate you can not receive assistance. PERIOD that is FEDERAL LAW not state/provincial law.

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