analyst fired for muslim comments...

Tah - posted on 10/21/2010 ( 43 moms have responded )

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http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/np...

Should he be fired or fined?

Was he just telling the truth?

Do you get nervous when you see people who fit stereotypes, like a group of muslims, young black men, Goth teens?.....

I mean if you saw all 7-8 of my nephews and my son on a corner, you may grab your purse or cross the street, but they all have jobs and are in college, pre-law, engineering, Music, English..etc majors, but they may fit a stereotype just to look at them, when you see muslims getting on a plane, do you get nervous?

any stereotypes are welcome.....real talk....

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Krista - posted on 10/24/2010

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I would love things to go back to just being......and who cared what was said.

Yeah, I also miss those days when a male employer could ask a female subordinate what size bra she wore.

Maybe political correctness has gone a little too far, but by the same token, I've grown more than a little tired of people whining because they're now held accountable for spouting prejudiced viewpoints.

There are a lot of people out there who are being screwed over through absolutely no fault of their own. I'm not going to waste my pity on the ones who espouse hatred and fear and then get their panties in a bunch and cry persecution when other people say, "Uh no, that's really wrong for you to say that about other people."

Sorry, but I'm not going to waste my tears crying over a freaking JOURNALIST who wasn't professional enough to keep his own feelings close to his vest.

Mary - posted on 10/22/2010

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Here's a response, and bit of an explanation behind ALL the factors involved with NPR's decision:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story...

It seems that they have struggled with this guy for a while, and had cautioned him about public statements on other news outlets that violated NPR's ethics code. If this had been an isolated incident, firing would have been uncalled for. However, this was just the final straw of an ongoing struggle between NPR and Williams.

Sara - posted on 10/21/2010

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Sounds to me like it's a mix of his opinion not fitting in with the culture of the organization and other issues he's had with NPR for sometime about his views. But, I say that it's the right of the organization to sever ties with someone they don't feel is helping to promote their internal philosophies or policies or values. For example, I work at a large University. One of the core beliefs held very strongly in our work culture is the recognition of gay partnerships. If someone in the organization were to publicly give their opinion that was the opposite of University policy, I would expect that they would get into some kind of trouble. That's life. Who knows what this guy's work contract stated, doubt NPR would have terminated it if they didn't have legal grounds to.



On a side note, it really pisses me off that people keep making blanket statements about all muslims being terrorists. I've had my fill of that bullshit.



The bigger question here is: is it intolerant to not tolerate intolerance? I say, hell no!

The country was not founded on the concept of free speech of any subject. It was specific to criticizing the government. A right that didn't exist in England. Freedom of speech has evolved into being forced to listen to anyone's garbage and bile or be accused of infringing on their rights. The 1st amendment doesn't give universal rights to be irresponsible socially or morally. Juan and Fox news are consistently irresponsible. Remind yourselves that Fox news is an entertainment venue. If hate entertains you then enjoy.

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Sharon - posted on 10/24/2010

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Well, thats cool Krista. I can't help but see the burkha as subservience/slap down/hidden secret thing and I don't like it. I realise that what I think is not entirely true and its nice to know they get to be open with others like them, if not in public.

Krista - posted on 10/24/2010

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I get a giggle watching them be all fussy about clothes that will not get seen by anyone.

Actually, from what I understand, if a bunch of women are over at each others' houses and there are no men present, they do sometimes remove their burqas and just wear their "western" clothing. And hey -- who appreciates a cute new outfit like your girlfriends? They're also free to be uncovered if at home with their husband and/or male relatives, if I'm not mistaken.

Sharon - posted on 10/24/2010

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:::: sshhhh!!!!! ::: Tah!!! all the kids at work think I'm cool cause my truck does the "bump bump thump thump" thing!!! hahahahaha

Sharon - posted on 10/24/2010

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LOL I went through thousand pictures on my camera looking for a good pic of my truck. I didn't find any profile pics and I can't share them here anyway. I'mma see what I can find online, lol

Heather - posted on 10/24/2010

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On the post where I live there a muslims everywhere, and the are people dressed in the clothing everywhere because they are part of the role players for our training. It used to be a fascination for me, but I hardly notice now. There are some people who make it really hard to look past stereotypes, ie; not showering and being rude to women, but most of the time I realize they find my culture and people just as fascinating and stereotypical as I do theirs. At least that's what I tell myself when they won't stop blatantly staring at me. ;P

Sharon - posted on 10/24/2010

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lol Tah - I know they aren't naked under there (unlike those pervert scottish and their kilts!!!! hahaha) but to me, I get a giggle watching them be all fussy about clothes that will not get seen by anyone. I wonder if they use our fitting rooms?

Sharon - posted on 10/24/2010

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Ah Dana - in the land of illegal immigrant smuggling/drug smuggling...

its suspicious because you can't see inside of it
its suspicious because its so big
and, lol, sadly its just that cool looking. black on black with no chrome and limo tinted windows, lol.

actually - it doesn't fit the profile of illegal smugglers, except in size, it fits the 80s' drug smugglers profile though. except its a 2007, rotfl... it scares the cops, scares border patrol, and scares the barrio residents or intrigues them, I haven't decided and my friends who live there just say "its suspicious." I enjoy my notoriety, until it gets me in trouble, lol - via expired tags I had forgotten about, mother pucker!

Tah - posted on 10/24/2010

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what is disgusting ot me is the people who don't admit it..i would rather have someone say that they have this view of a certain type of people rather than tip toe around it and act like they don't when they really do....Now..my cousins are muslim...they wear clothes under there garb..prob why they are shopping for it..lol..jeans etc..let me see if i can steal some good pictures..they are black.but muslim none the less..like one of them has a well to do african muslim husband so she has traveled around the country for her religion..i saw her in the airport once with a white muslim woman...but because they aren't middle eastern, i am sure they don't get the same reaction...

Sharon - posted on 10/24/2010

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That really sucks Tah. I get followed a lot, pulled over pretty frequently because of my truck. I don't care. I ALWAYS (except this season) have everything perfectly tight & legal about it. So go ahead and pull me over.

BUT that is my truck being pulled over, it IS suspicious, not me. It would be a whole different thing if they thought "I" was suspicious.

I HATE that your nephews have to suffer animosity and suspicion like that.

Your nephews and persecuted innocent muslims are why I try to so hard to act on the unfounded fears I sometimes get.

um, and another confession.... when I see a woman with a burka... god help me... I try to discretely stare & see if she has any bruises on her arms or face when it moves. Disgusting isn't it? But that is more for worry about women being persecuted. I find it soooo weird that they shop for clothes at all. I have NEVER seen one shopping for a bra though or panties. I read once that they order that stuff online only.

Tah - posted on 10/24/2010

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some people like you may be able to tell the difference, but some people don't make the distinction..in real gangstas and thugs or muslims....i saw 3 middle eastern people in the commisary yesterday and 1. i don't remember seeing that before. 2. To me they were just shoppers, they were speaking their language and i promise you, i looked at other people and saw them staring at them. I think that it would be hard to deal with, but i think that we all stereotype....i know i do...



o and i got you for the most part..lol...like if you walked past my 6 older nephews, to me, they dress like people where we are from dress...they say yes and no ma'am etc..but to some..seeing them would scare them because some of them are tall and big guys..one has a beard like you see on muslims(we are christian but thats how everyone wears them in philly..lol)....they don't talk softly...but they will stand outside and talk and hang out after school, work etc..so they may get scared that 6 big black guys are on the corner laughing and talking, and cross the street when i know for a fact that they would probably help you with your bags because they have...



They were standing in my sisters complex one evening with my brother talking after a family gathering and some cops pulled up and demanded to see ID, because someone called and said they were displaying suspicious behavior..umm...if standing outside laughing and joking and teasing one another is suspicious..lock me up..please...my brother studies ninjitsu and has a license to carry a handgun..it was not with him...when you run his license, his gun license comes up...they hassled him about that...do you have your gun on you???...NO...so why didn't you tell us you had a gun??? because it's not on me...and you can tell by my license....Well out of respect you should should have told us...and just went on and on...as if it was under his shirt or something..Then told them they need to leave...they were at my sisters house, in her complex..all over 18..no warrants, no illegal activity, just having fun after a family get together, not drunk and disorderly..where she pays to live....and because someone said they looked suspcious..they have to leave....



5 of them were driving in my nephews car and were pulled over..they never gave a reason for pulling them over..not speeding..had not ran a light or anything...they again had to have their id's ran..and then the cop tells them that riding around like that they are asking to be pulled over..when my nephew asked, like what?..they said...together like this...so now they have to take seperate cars because too many of them together is asking for it....stereotyping and a little profiling to boot...

Sharon - posted on 10/24/2010

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Tah - sorry - I wasn't clear. What I meant was that seeing as I can tell a "real" gangster/thug from the wannabe's, I'm not afraid of them, but with muslims, how can you tell extremist from normal?

ugh - I told a long convoluted story with no point and I feel like kicking myself, lol.

I admitted in a later post that yes muslims make me nervous, because I can't tell normal from extremist.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, its a lovely religion and they are lovely people but its the extremists who scare me.

Desiree - posted on 10/23/2010

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I am actually begining to believe that todays world is just far to politically correct. You cant critisize anyone with out some one saying something, Your Racist, Yo'ure anti semitic, you're anti religion, anti humanity, sexist, anti men or woman ,homophobic or heaven forbid you don't like some political party.

Every thing is over board, We have all become the 3 wise monkeys, See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil and we become no body. Every single person is entitled to their opinion as long as it doesn't step on another persons ego. No body likes joke about themselves or the political parties they like or the religions they follow. What the hell happened to being able to laugh at yourselves. Oh yes now I remember we have all become prudes and yet this is the society that allows movies with seriously bad language in it and our children to watch it, don't forget the sex and the death. And we wonder where we are going wrong. That simply because we as society can't take a joke anymore and we can't look at ourselves in any critical light. Someone says something about our weight or us as female or male and immediately we just to sexual harasement. I would love things to go back to just being......and who cared what was said. Far too many sensitive people in this world that for sure.

Serena - posted on 10/22/2010

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I hold on to my purse tightly when a man of any color walks past me and I think about it. I have realized with three young children in tow, I am an easy target for anyone.
I'll admit that especially since we have moved to the South I automatically think that all "redneck" looking males must hate me and my family (I'm hispanic and my husband is black).
But as far this guy getting fired, I think if you are going on to a show representing a company of any sort, you are doing just that representing. So if you say something that is not appropriate you should get reprimanded. I don't think it would have been such a big deal if other news media didn't make it into one. Who still watches Fox anyways...either than the Tea Party LOL

Rosie - posted on 10/22/2010

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to be honest i stereotype, i stereotype the hell out of everybody. i hate that i do it, but i do. if i see a bunch of bikers covered with tattoos,i freak (although my hubby and i partake in getting tattoos, and piercings) for some reason i think of the stereotype and freak. i see a black male (for some reason it's only black males, not females) dressed all like thugs AND i'm on the SE side (where most of the criminal activity happens where i live) then yes, i freak out. if a muslim MAN were to get aboard a plane with me i'd freak as well. although they have to be a certain type of muslim. now that i think about it, on my trip back from hawaii, i sat next to a man who was older, black and wore the traditional muslim hat (don't know what it's called) and it didn't bother me one bit. i think for me to do my typical stereotyping he'd have to be middle eastern.

theres me in all my shameful glory. i try not to do it, but i cannot help it. it's like it's engrained in me somehow. i KNOW logically that i shouldn't do it, but that still doesn't change the way i feel.
do i feel this guy should be fired for having these feelings, no. but as others have pointed out, he didn't follow the position of NPR guidelines for it's employees, so i guess he should've been then.

Krista - posted on 10/22/2010

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Mary's got it exactly right.

Williams’ appearances on Fox clearly violated NPR’s guidelines for its employees:

9. NPR journalists must get permission from the Vice President for their Division or their designee to appear on TV or other media. It is not necessary to get permission in each instance when the employee is a regular participant on an approved show. Permission for such appearances may be revoked if NPR determines such appearances are harmful to the reputation of NPR or the NPR participant.

10. In appearing on TV or other media including electronic Web-based forums, NPR journalists should not express views they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist. They should not participate in shows electronic forums, or blogs that encourage punditry and speculation rather than rather than fact-based analysis.


This didn't happen in a vacuum.

Dana - posted on 10/22/2010

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I long for the day of impartiality again. You can't have one of your employers saying one thing on your network and another on some other network. And like I said before, I don't necessarily think he should be fired but, at this point in time, I just might fire someone for appearing on FOX. FOX is a freaking joke and their kind of "reporting" is ruining our country.

Tah - posted on 10/22/2010

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I wasn't referring to dress really, i have heard people, black, white and other ethnic backgrouds say things like if they see muslims in on a plane, or a group of minorites hanging out or walking down the street, around them, they get nervous, cross the street, walk fast etc, way before he said what he said, i don't know, maybe it is the dress to them, or just being afraid of stereotypes...

Johnny - posted on 10/21/2010

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Personally, I get really nervous when I sit next to media "experts" or "pundits" on a plane. Shiver!

Kate CP - posted on 10/21/2010

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They were extremists. Period. Full stop. There have been Christian extremists and even Buddhist extremists, too. Their religion has N O T H I N G to do with the terror they inflict on others.

Heather - posted on 10/21/2010

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Actually, I do listen to NPR. Usually they are very middle of the road, but occasionally they've let their spokespeople say things that assert their personal beliefs instead of an interpretation and those people weren't fired. If you're going to let one person do it, then you can't very well fire another for the same thing. I honestly think they just didn't want to one of their people speaking on Fox News under their name. That's their perogative, but they are also held to a contract, which they broke.

Kate CP - posted on 10/21/2010

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Doesn't matter what race they are but if I see a group of younger guys hanging around I get really nervous. That's really the only time I'm nervous about a group of people.

C. - posted on 10/21/2010

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It's his opinion. I really don't know what they should do, BUT I AM getting tired of people getting blasted for expressing their honest opinions about something, even if the vast majority doesn't agree. It's silly. We live in a country where we are supposed to be able to express ourselves freely (within reason, of course). This guy's opinion did nothing to harm anyone else. I think he should be FINED, not fired.

And he's right.. Jihad, Al Queda, whatever the hell else they want to call themselves.. Those groups were created by Muslim extremists. I'll write more later.. My son keeps saying he poopied..

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I don't think he should have been fired. That's what he thinks and it's a free country. If he had said something racist then fair enough. Big groups of charvs hanging around drinking make me nervous and yes Muslims with the full face covering do too because you don't know who's under the material, in the same way I don't like people wearing motorcycling helmets around me but I'm not racist or ageist, that's just the way I feel.

Becky - posted on 10/21/2010

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Just from what was reported, I think that firing him was a bit extreme. But who knows if there were other issues as well.
I have no problem with Muslims. No, people who are obviously Muslim (and of course, you can't always tell!), but the ones in the hijabs and turbans, does not make me nervous at all. I've lived in Muslim countries and have some wonderful friends who are Muslim. But, I do think that since 9/11, Americans - maybe other westerners too - have gone 1 of 2 ways. Either we put all Muslims in the same pot, thinking they're all terrorists who are out to get us, or we go overboard trying to be politically correct and defend Muslims, almost like we're trying to placate them so they won't attack us again. I think NPR's reaction leans towards this end.
I agree, Ebony, I don't think any of us can honestly say we don't stereotype anyone. I don't get nervous when I see a group of young black kids hanging around on the corner. But, for one, we have a different image of Black people here, and for 2, I grew up in Africa. But, if I was downtown and a scruffy looking Native guy walked towards me, yeah, I'd be scared.

Dana - posted on 10/21/2010

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Heather do you actually listen to NPR? They're VERY middle of the road, by your comments, I'm assuming you don't and just like to repeat things you've heard.

Dana - posted on 10/21/2010

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I don't think he should have been fired for his comments but, I do think NPR are within their rights to fire him. He still has free speech, he wasn't arrested for his comments!

Heather - posted on 10/21/2010

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This particular analyst is well known for his tolerance and work on bringing minorities out of their "stereotypes". He shouldn't have been fired based on admitting people dressed in muslim garb make him nervous. The first step to removing a fear or predjudice is admitting you have one. That being said, I don't know why he'd want to continue to work for NPR when they clearly aren't supporting free speech, just the speech they deem appropriate. NPR has no problem allowing people to slam right wingers and Christians, but say a muslim makes you uncomfortable and you're fired immediately? Sounds a little fishy to me.

JuLeah - posted on 10/21/2010

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I get nervous on a plane if I am seated next to an insurance sales man, or a politician. Most others I could handle. Ya can't judge a book, as they say. I know of middle of the road, piller of the community looking guys that you would not ever, I mean ever, want to turn your back on. It is what a person does, not how they look.

Sharon - posted on 10/21/2010

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Ebony - we call those mafia/mafiosa out here. yes the little peon thugs are what I was referring to.

Jenn - posted on 10/21/2010

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Well, I think he was telling the truth about how he feels. But should he have been fired? Not sure yet what I think about that. I'm leaning towards yes though. Now, do I get nervous when I see a group of black men? No. Although around here I'll be honest, the majority of the black men are offshore worker who come here from Jamaica and the biggest threat from them is a marriage proposal. But as for other stereotypes, let me think......a group of kids hanging out downtown dressed like thugs doesn't make me nervous, I just wish they had something to do other than hang out downtown. The only people I ever seen around here dressed in muslim garb were at the Friendship Festival handing out the Quaran and I just smiled and said "no thank you" and the lady smiled back at me so I certainly didn't feel nervous. Goth teens don't scare me as I myself used to be a little on the goth side as a kid and I know I sure as hell wasn't a threat to anyone.

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/21/2010

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BTW….real “Ganstas” dress VERY well…
The ones in the sagging, and baggie clothes…are thugs…the gansters little minions…
The real ganstas…dress in top notch clothing, the Gucci, Louis, jewelry on…and not huge chains around there neck…(I watch too much Gangland…LOL

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 10/21/2010

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I was jus thinking this same thing…to post…ya beat me too it Tah
If anyone says they don’t stereotype…they LIE…
Many people do it without realizing they are…including me..
For example…
My husband is Korean and adheres to the traditions when they come around..ect
First of all, if you were to talk to him over the phone…he sounds like a black man (very deep urban voice) because he grew up around them…same neighborhood,
If you seen him on the street…you wouldn’t think twice about how he may sound…but then be surprised when he spoke to you…
Many people (mostly men) will talk to him a certain way, or look at him a certain way…because he’s Asian, but then when he speaks up…they are like…”Oh…Okay then,”
He is stereotyped quite a bit…

As far as that guy goes…if anything he should be fined…EVERYONE stereotypes…its sad to say…and will never end…

If you seen a lady with a COAH bag, diamonds on all her fingers, hair done very well, she looks expensive…you might think…she’s rich…when in reality she may have sugar-daddies who brought her everything she owns…

Sharon - posted on 10/21/2010

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Hanging out in the park with my kids, I can tell (I think) trendy versus criminal.

Forgive - but because you're going there with your nephews & criminal - I'm gonna assume you mean that because of their dress.

Kids out here dress "gangsta" all the time, kids of all color. There is a look on the real "gangsta" kids faces. There is a tone to their voice. My kids can't fake it. The kids I see shopping for the shoes, can't fake it. Hell, the black kids who were shopping yesterday with their "auntie" and "mamy" ( I swear to god) couldn't fake, although they had the gangsta dress down perfectly. They were so cute (14 - 20 yrs roughly). I'd seen them in the store alone and they were always respectful and courteous to us (we have to greet and offer help to every customer) whereas some kids don't do that.

So no, a simple "look" or "type" doesn't make me nervous.

Sadly, today, these days, yes, people affecting native middle eastern dress make nervous. A group of middle easterners came into the store a couple of weeks ago and I felt this fear surge over me. Its ridiculous for a number of reasons. 1. wtf would they bomb our stupid little department store? LOL bombing the walmart makes WAY more sense.

2. With no big college near us, these people came from the military base, background checks up the ass.

I sucked it up. kept my smile on, hoped it didn't look fake or stiff. They have a beautiful language & were talking to each other in it. They spoke perfect american too. I complimented them on the beautiful language they were speaking. It surprised them and I got genuine smiles from them all. I was ultimately relieved, I made them smile so they aren't gonna blow us up, right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! See? I can't stop.

Yes, muslims make me nervous. This is something I try to overcome.

Real gangsta thugs make me nervous. Since I believe I can tell real from fake gangsta - yes they make me nervous too and I don't try to get over it.

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