Arrested for refusing to tip

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http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/loca...

Couple Busted for Refusing to Pay Tip
Patrons claim service was so bad, they had to get napkins and silverware for themselves
By DAVID CHANG
Updated 12:20 PM EST, Thu, Nov 19, 2009

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If you’re frustrated by poor service at a restaurant, think twice before you decide to not tip. You may be in for a bit more than just a dirty look from the waiter.

"Nobody, nobody wants to be forced to pay a tip or be arrested for terrible service," Leslie Pope said when her happy hour ended in handcuffs.

Pope and John Wagner were hauled away by police and charged with theft for not paying the mandatory 18 percent gratuity totaling $16 after eating at the Lehigh Pub in Bethlehem, Pa. with six friends.

Pope claimed that they had to wait nearly an hour for their order and that she had to get napkins and silverware for the table herself.

“At this point I became very annoyed because I had already gone up to the bar myself to have my soda refilled because the waitress never came back,” Pope said.

After the $73 bill came, the group paid for food, drinks, and tax but refused to pay the tip. After explaining the bad service to the bartender in charge, Pope claimed he took their money and called police. The couple was handcuffed and placed in the back of a police car.

“I understand that, you know, we didn’t pay the gratuity, but it was a gratuity, it wasn’t something that was required,” said Wagner.

The owner admitted that the group waited unusually long for their food, but said the pub was extremely busy that night. He said managers offered to comp the food, a claim the couple denies ever happened.

“Obviously we would have liked for the patron and the establishment to have worked this out without getting the police involved,” said Deputy Police Commissioner Stuart Bedics.

Police charged them with theft since the gratuity was part of the actual bill. However, it is doubtful that the charges will hold up in front of a judge. The couple is scheduled to appear in court next month.

First Published: Nov 18, 2009 9:44 PM EST

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Mary - posted on 11/22/2009

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Jo, I don't know if this is true in Canada, but everywhere I've eaten in the States, it ALWAYS states on the menu that parties of X or more will have an 18% gratuity automatically included in the the bill. It would probably be wise for the hostess or whomever is seating you to give a verbal reminder, but it is not necessary, since it is a WRITTEN policy of the establishment. Most Americans are aware of this before they enter the establishment, since it is standard practice here.

Is it silly to work a job where your income is not gauranteed? People do it all the time...many sales positions (i.e. car salespeople, insurance, etc) work for a fairly low base pay, and the bulk of their income is based on comission. Waiting tables is pretty much the same thing, and as Dana, myself and some other who have waited tables have testified, if you do your job well, this almost always is to your benefit at the end of the night.

Lately, this economy has made many jobs have an "unreliable" income. Nursing is a prime example. I am required to commit to X number of hours/week (for me it is 32). But, in an effort to save $$, hospitals are putting staff on-call, or outright cancelling them if the census is low. On-call pay at my hospital is $3.50/hr...I am still required to be available and have 1 hr to be there if called in. This is $ 37.00 less per hour than my normal wage, and unless I have vacation time, my paycheck is monumentally less than normal. The dayshift girls still have to pay daycare, even though they are not necessarily using it, b/c they may be called in at anytime during those 12 hours. You are not really "off"...but you are not making your nromal pay, either. Should we all leave nursing, since our pay is not 100% reliable?

?? - posted on 11/21/2009

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Diana, my point is, that if you choose that job, you chose it. Your customers should not be the person paying you enough to survive at your job. Your employer should be. If you can get a job serving tables, you can most likely get a job at a convience store or a grocery store and you probably get better wage, better benefits and even more respect at a job like that.



If you CHOOSE to be a server, well, that's your issue, do what you gotta do, but you should never expect your customers to be making sure you get enough money to make it worth while.



If you work for commission, you choose that job. If you are a car sales person and you get paid per car you sell, you choose that job. If you work at Wal-Mart and are a cashier, you chose that job. If you are a real estate agent, you chose that job. If you are a mechanic, you chose that job.



You can't EXPECT a gratuity or a tip on any of those jobs to make sure you get paid enough. So if you are going to choose to get a job and work for less than minimum wage, by choosing that job (regardless of the laws) you are still choosing that job.



It is NOT anyone else's responsibility to make sure you get paid enough money. If you don't like how much you get paid for doing that job, quit. Get another job. If that's not an option, suck it up buttercup. Going to school is always an option.



I have no idea what the laws are or if they need to be changed or whatever... but regardless of the laws... if you don't like the wage of a job, you should find another job. Period.

Mary - posted on 11/20/2009

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Ok, I think calling the police was a bit excessive and ridiculous, BUT...I also think that these customers are a little petty as well. I think it's pretty obvious that none of them have ever waited tables before; if you have, you wouldn't be so quick to deny that waitress what is, in essence, her pay check.

Did they get sub-standard service? Yup, sounds like it. Is it the complete fault of their server? Probably not...they just happen to be the front line face that suffers the abuse when some or all of the employees of an eating establishment don't do their job. First off, it is fairly standard practice here in the states that ANY party of 6 or more has an 18% " gratuity" automatically included. There is a reason this practice became standard....larger parties tend to be much more work, messier, more demanding, and stay longer (thus reducing turn over, and therefore a night's earnings). They also rarely left a tip that was reflective of the additional amount of work a server put in...most people would divy up the bill, pay their part, and throw in a buck or two for tip...leaving the server shortchanged...she would have made more if she had had, say, 3 or for individual tables. I guess the problem here is really that retaurants continue to call it a gratuity, insinuating reward or gratitude...perhaps it would be better, and clearer, if it was calle something along the lines of "large party surcharge". This large party "gratuity" is NOT optional, and is always found, in writing, on the menu.

Perhaps she wasn't the best server, (there are ways to butter customers up, explain the situation, and make them feel sorry for you...sueesing this girl didn't try this), but - the amount of time it took for there food to arrive is not under her control...that's the kitchen. As for silverware and drinks...depends on the establishement, but I have worked places where I gave the drink order to the bartender and HAD to wait for him to fix them (yes, even soda!), and where the napkins and silverware were supposed to be done by a busboy (the waitress then tips them out at the end of the night). Not sure of the particulars here, just pointing out that she may have been doing the best she could on a particulaly busy night where they obviously didn't have enough staff. Granted, she may have a completely inept, nasty bitch, but that is not implied in this article.

Marabeth - posted on 11/25/2009

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(this post is referring to restaurants in the united states as that is all i have experience with)

a lot of people seem to be suggesting something along the lines of 'it's their own [servers] fault for working in a job where their pay is so unreliable, it's not my fault so i shouldn't necessarily be expected to tip!' first of all i don't really think many waitstaff have the luxury of deciding what they do for a living. everyone has a choice, you say? well, that's a pretty thought but not really reality. i'm sure 95-98% of waitstaff would take a solid salary job any day over $2.25/hr plus tips listening to people they hate talk, cleaning up your filth and sticking their hands in your water glasses filled with snotty napkins. the fact is they are doing a service to you (a stranger) that is rather degrading and the tip is there as compensation for their dwindling respect. you may say it's unnecessary but if they didn't, who would? you would have to do it yourself and i don't really see that happening any time soon. restaurants have been around so long and and will never go away. we may slow down and the crappier ones may close but there's obviously a demand even in the shittiest of economies. i was always taught that if you can't afford to tip 15-20% at least then you can't afford to be dining out.

Isobel - posted on 11/22/2009

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Tip pools are kind of like the waitress tipping the people who served her, and made it possible for her to make the tips...the busboys, the bartender, etc.

No owner expects to make it big on tips, but I assure you if they are not there, the business will have trouble keeping a decent wait staff around.

While I agree with you that there shouldn't be tips in fast food places, if you don't like tipping, don't go out to restaurants, or move back to Japan.

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?? - posted on 11/22/2009

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But that just goes back to what I said earlier;



"Sorry for the delay, the kitchen is just a little backed up at the moment - we've got a party in today *haha* you know how they can be *wink* can I refill anyone's water? Get anyone a drink? Some bread sticks to hold you over? It shouldn't be long at all, I'll go check for you! *big smile*"



Just saying anything along those lines, goes A LONG WAY when you're waiting for and paying for your dinner just like everyone else in the restaurant. And that IS part of a server's job, to serve the customer - even if it is just drinks and reasons until the ktichen pulls the back up.

Isobel - posted on 11/22/2009

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I don't think they are bitching for customers to tip *more*, just trying to explain why they are tipped in the first place. From my experience (when I used to wait tables) most of the things people complain about and lower their tips for are not really the fault of the server.

?? - posted on 11/22/2009

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Mary, I guess what you're not taking into account is that I'm talking about here, in Canada, where our servers are paid at LEAST a minimum wage. And I said, maybe if I lived in the states I would think differently. But at the same time, I wouldn't rely on a job that pays me only $2.25/hr...



I don't get your argument that at a restaurant would have to raise their prices in order to pay their employee's a higher wage........ because our servers here and the employee's at the restaurants here are paid at least the minimum wage and our meals aren't butt crazy expensive ($8-12 for an average regular meal, $20 for the expensive shit).



Actually the restaurants that I frequent around here, the most I have ever paid for a meal was $15 - the average meal is about $8-12 and it's a good sized proportion - no fancy lil tiny deal that you see in gourmet magazine. So to say that a restaurant would have to jack up their prices to afford to pay their employee's better... doesn't make sense to me, since it's a common practice here and we don't have jacked up prices.



And again, if you choose the job, you accept the wage. If you're not happy with the wage, then choose another job. You have no right to bitch and complain if your customers don't feel sorry for you and tip you extra for having a crappy paying job.

Jodi - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Mary:



you would prefer restaurants to raise their prices for food and beverages, and pay ALL of their employees the standard minimum wage, thus eliminating the customer's freedom to espress their opinion of the service received via the tipping practice.





But that is the point of this discussion - a mandatory tip is NOT giving the customer freedom to express their opinion via the tip.  It is dictating to the customer what they should tip, regardless of the service received.



I thought that was what the discussion was about anyway - they were arrested for not paying a mandatory tip but they believe they had not received the service. By exercising their "freedom" to express their opinion, they were arrested.

Jeannette - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Laura:

Tip pools are kind of like the waitress tipping the people who served her, and made it possible for her to make the tips...the busboys, the bartender, etc.

No owner expects to make it big on tips, but I assure you if they are not there, the business will have trouble keeping a decent wait staff around.

While I agree with you that there shouldn't be tips in fast food places, if you don't like tipping, don't go out to restaurants, or move back to Japan.


I never lived in Japan...I was referring to someone who currently lives there.



 



See how the tip thing has gotten outta hand?  Servers being served tipping their help?  wth?  That is just tip overkill.



Again, I'd ask, why are some service jobs worth tipping for and not others?



It isn't that I don't tip or don't like to tip.  I HATE with a passion being told how much to tip.  You know what?  It should be entirely up the individual, and I don't give a rats what the "suggested" amount is.

Jeannette - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Mary:





Mary, I understand completely what you're saying but a car salesman, a real estate agent, a personal shopper, etc etc etc those careers people go into on purpose knowing that the income can be unreliable - and determined to make it work. Those jobs though, take a certain kind of personality too, a certain sales sauve demeanor that people generally have before they decide to pursue that career.

And again, sorry, I don't have any real emotion available for people to whine about positions they choose, like a server, that are ALWAYS unreliable. I do understand that the economy is the shits these days - but your point is really... I dunno... pointless in a sense because in a bad economy it's just common sense that certain jobs aren't stable or less stable than others. I know common sense is pretty rare these days but that is common sense.

My point - that you are purposefully ignoring for whatever reason - is that when you choose a career, when you apply for a job it is your responsibility to make sure that job or even multiple jobs will cover your means to live and if it does not then it is up to you to find another job or more jobs so that you make that money........... relying on TIPS to cover your rent is silly, stupid and careless. And if that doesn't click, well, then there's not much more to say cause it shouldn't take much to understand that point.






You're right I really don't understand your argument.  The current system is what it is for a server's income...a low base rate that is augmented by tips.  Tips, as Sarah so clearly explained, is Too Ensure Proper Service.  That is the way the restaurant business reimburses servers.  In essence, the are sales people.  The restaurant provides the product (your food), which they "sell", and depending on how well they meet your needs and enhance your dining experience, they are reimbursed by the customer (their "commission").  This is the way it works here...all servers, and the majority of customers,  know and accept that this is how their income is made, and that a tip, while subject to opinion, is part of the cost of dining out.  I guess what you are really saying is that you would prefer a system where the costs of a meal out are set...like at McDonald's.  Instead of paying the cost of your meal, you would prefer restaurants to raise their prices for food and beverages, and pay ALL of their employees the standard minimum wage, thus eliminating the customer's freedom to espress their opinion of the service received via the tipping practice.






I know you are not responding to me...but I'ma gonna respond to this.  Newsflash!!!!!  Prices at restaraunts have gone up.  Over $2.00 for a glass of tea anyone? 



Restaraunts were created by people who wanted to make money off of people who do not want to cook dinner tonight - ummmm....they were not thinking at all about how much servers would make in tips!  Puleez!  To this day, no one starts a restaraunt hoping to make it big on the servers tips.



Plus, where I live, the servers do have to split their tips with the busboys, hostesses, bartenders.  So, that makes the whole tipping for service point moot doesn't it?

Mary - posted on 11/22/2009

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Mary, I understand completely what you're saying but a car salesman, a real estate agent, a personal shopper, etc etc etc those careers people go into on purpose knowing that the income can be unreliable - and determined to make it work. Those jobs though, take a certain kind of personality too, a certain sales sauve demeanor that people generally have before they decide to pursue that career.

And again, sorry, I don't have any real emotion available for people to whine about positions they choose, like a server, that are ALWAYS unreliable. I do understand that the economy is the shits these days - but your point is really... I dunno... pointless in a sense because in a bad economy it's just common sense that certain jobs aren't stable or less stable than others. I know common sense is pretty rare these days but that is common sense.

My point - that you are purposefully ignoring for whatever reason - is that when you choose a career, when you apply for a job it is your responsibility to make sure that job or even multiple jobs will cover your means to live and if it does not then it is up to you to find another job or more jobs so that you make that money........... relying on TIPS to cover your rent is silly, stupid and careless. And if that doesn't click, well, then there's not much more to say cause it shouldn't take much to understand that point.



You're right I really don't understand your argument.  The current system is what it is for a server's income...a low base rate that is augmented by tips.  Tips, as Sarah so clearly explained, is Too Ensure Proper Service.  That is the way the restaurant business reimburses servers.  In essence, the are sales people.  The restaurant provides the product (your food), which they "sell", and depending on how well they meet your needs and enhance your dining experience, they are reimbursed by the customer (their "commission").  This is the way it works here...all servers, and the majority of customers,  know and accept that this is how their income is made, and that a tip, while subject to opinion, is part of the cost of dining out.  I guess what you are really saying is that you would prefer a system where the costs of a meal out are set...like at McDonald's.  Instead of paying the cost of your meal, you would prefer restaurants to raise their prices for food and beverages, and pay ALL of their employees the standard minimum wage, thus eliminating the customer's freedom to espress their opinion of the service received via the tipping practice.

Jeannette - posted on 11/22/2009

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In Japan, you're not supposed to tip. From what I understand when I listen to the podcasts my husband listens to. There is a guy who lives there, and tipping is not done, it is an insult.
I don't disagree with tips, but sometimes, they are ridiculous! Hair dressers expect a tip...they even put out a little tip cup. Bartenders have tip cups. There is a tip cup at Starbucks AND at the local coffee shop. REALLY? If service work isn't for you, please don't give me service! Have a coffee machine that makes that perfect cup of coffee, and I won't even bother you! There's NOT a tip cup at McDonald's or our local burger joint!
Also, ever go to a place that has a buffet? They expect tips there!!!!! You get your own food, they refill your drinks ONLY and expect a tip????
I think the whole tip thing has gotten outta hand! I think 20% is too high...10% should be enough! Prices are going up, if you cannot afford to live on your wage, then fight to change your wage laws...don't ask more of me.
By the way, this has nothing to do with affordability. I CAN afford to eat out and tip...it irks me how some service jobs are decidedly worth the tip, but not ALL! Crazy crap people, crazy crap! Keep it to the wage...no tips!

?? - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Sarah:

Jo, you are right that you should make sure your job covers your means to live, BUT as a server I do rely on tips and poor economy or not as a person with the right personality for the job I have never had a problem making enough money. If you are good at your job, it is not silly, stupid or careless to be a server.




No, if you're good at your job it's not silly, stupid or careless - but I'm sure if the money you were making became not enough money in order to pay your bills, you would have the brains, sense and maturity to understand that it is your responsibility to change that - by either getting another job, or getting a second job to suppliment your income. And it's not the responsibility of your customers to make sure they give you enough tips for it to be worth while for you.



I already said that I do tip my servers - but how MUCH I tip my servers is up to me, it should never be expected of me to give a certain amount. I am going to a restaurant, I am paying for my meal, I do tip, and if I want to go out and get a meal I shouldn't have to leave $20 for some bitch to be snotty to me just cause it's the 'expected tip' for the amount my bill was.



And personally, if I get crappy service at a restaurant, I won't go back to it. OR I will ask for a specific server that I KNOW will do his/her job properly, so that I know my tip will be deserved.



Again this is in Canada where they get paid minimum wage. Maybe if I was in the states it would be different, but if I go to a restaurant and my server doesn't go out of their way to be friendly and helpful - well they're doing their job - they are already getting paid to do their job, they aren't doing anything worth getting an extra special tip, I will probably leave them $2-3 on the table, but nothing more than that.



On the 14th we went to Boston Pizza to celebrate my moms birthday and my sister writing her GED exam. there was 6 adults and my son. Our server, Kale (I remember his name - this is how good his service was), he was EXCELLENT! He came by regularly, if he was walking by the table he'd kinda peek over us to see if the table was lacking a drink or butter or ketchup or whatever and if he saw something he'd ask. Our meals came in good time, he offered different things they have available for kids there, even though we had a sippy cup, a container of cheerios and a couple toys. He joked, he smiled, he showed general interest without being nosey.



Our bill was about $135 .. 15% is about $20... he got a $50 tip to him and we also gave an extra $15ish when we paid the bill to make our amount for the evening an even $200, so he almost got $70 for his service, we arrived at 6:30, we left at 7:45. I'd say he got MORE than he "deserved". But he earned it. BUT if we hadn't BUDGETTED extra, he wouldn't have gotten that much. AND if we had budgetted less for our dinner, that does NOT mean we should NOT go out just because we can't afford to give our server a tip more than a couple dollars, if Kale is expecting a damn good tip like $70 for a $135 bill, or even a $20 tip for a $135 bill - he has no right to be disappointed if he doesn't get it because HE chooses to stay at that job, and HE chooses to go all out with the hope it will pull in extra tips.



I'm not saying that it's right or that it's not rude to not leave a tip (when it's deserved!!!) - what I am saying though is that Kale chose to be a server, he gets paid his wages every other friday and if that paycheque isn't enough for him he should find another job. And if he's gonna bitch cause people leave a $2 tip cause that's all they have to give, or a $5 tip cause they don't feel a server should be getting paid twice - he can keep it to himself cause it's his own doing.

[deleted account]

Quoting Sarah:

Diana I am a career server...although eventually I'd like to go back to school and get my masters in business management...I have also managed at my old restaurant, enjoyed it, but make more money serving and enjoy it equally...
But you are right, most are students.



My brother-in-law is as well...But I think they're pretty rare unless you're in an up-scale restaraunt and the owners pay the servers well and they know they will get good tips from well-to-do patrons (which is what my brother in law has done). Generally, as they aren't many upscale places here, we see student servers or perhaps servers who work some on the side to make extra money.

Sarah - posted on 11/22/2009

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Diana I am a career server...although eventually I'd like to go back to school and get my masters in business management...I have also managed at my old restaurant, enjoyed it, but make more money serving and enjoy it equally...

But you are right, most are students.

[deleted account]

I understand your point, Jo, and I'm not ignoring it, I'm just looking at a different way...



If all of those people who are servers right now chose another career and no one chose to fill those positions (and although I have known a few career servers, I haven't know all that many anyhow-it seems-at least here-to be something people do while working through school because, as I said, it's one of the few jobs that works with a weird class schedule), we would have no servers. So instead of telling them all to quit and having no one working in the service industry, let's pay them better or quit bitching about tips. The minimum wage for servers hasn't been raised since something like the 1960s, while the overall minimum wage has gone up two or three times since. It's unfair. We tip hairdressers, bellhops, massage therapists, and I even got tipped at a summer camp-but none of them are paid less than minimum wage. For me it's not even really about sympathy-it's about fairness and equality.

Sarah - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Jo:



Quoting Dana: Aww, I got a sweet little ass...lol





Quoting Laura: Dana...who says? ;P




SAYS ME :D




Mary, I understand completely what you're saying but a car salesman, a real estate agent, a personal shopper, etc etc etc those careers people go into on purpose knowing that the income can be unreliable - and determined to make it work. Those jobs though, take a certain kind of personality too, a certain sales sauve demeanor that people generally have before they decide to pursue that career.

And again, sorry, I don't have any real emotion available for people to whine about positions they choose, like a server, that are ALWAYS unreliable. I do understand that the economy is the shits these days - but your point is really... I dunno... pointless in a sense because in a bad economy it's just common sense that certain jobs aren't stable or less stable than others. I know common sense is pretty rare these days but that is common sense.

My point - that you are purposefully ignoring for whatever reason - is that when you choose a career, when you apply for a job it is your responsibility to make sure that job or even multiple jobs will cover your means to live and if it does not then it is up to you to find another job or more jobs so that you make that money........... relying on TIPS to cover your rent is silly, stupid and careless. And if that doesn't click, well, then there's not much more to say cause it shouldn't take much to understand that point.



Jo, you are right that you should make sure your job covers your means to live, BUT as a server I do rely on tips and poor economy or not as a person with the right personality for the job I have never had a problem making enough money.  If you are good at your job, it is not silly, stupid or careless to be a server.  I know where you are coming from about the whining about not making enough money because I used to work with a lot of college kids who just worked as servers for a job.  They hated the job and did not put forth the immense effort to succeed in the job yet would complain that they didn't make crap.  I would work the same shift as them and make at least double what they did because I do enjoy my job and it shows.  Yes, there are some cheap ****s out there who don't tip regardless of how great you are, but the others more than make up for it.  I've always planned my budget based on a minumum average level of tips, and since I almost always surpass that amount, I have "bonus" money for other things.  Of course now that I am mainly a SAHM and only work part time, our budget for bills is based on my husbands income while mine goes toward extras like Christmas and randoms.



I do have an issue though with people who try to claim they can't afford to tip...to me you should figure that out BEFORE you choose to go out to eat and if you can't afford it, STAY HOME!  Now that doesn't mean that you have to tip well for crummy service.  But in the case of this couple who was arrested, it perhaps should have been called by a different name, but the gratituity was part of the bill and thus regardlesss of service they should be required to pay it.  At my restaurant although we reserve the right to add gratuity to large parties we will leave it off per request of the patron, but for some reason or another, this restaurant would not and that is their right.



Interestingly enough, TIPS actually stands for To insure Proper Service and actually used to be given at the beginning of the meal to get good service throughout....  Since it now is at the end of a meal, it is the server's responsibility (as it should be) to work hard for the customer and thus their money.







**In any job regardless of what you do, if you don't show pride in your work it is very likely you won't suceed, this is not limited to waitressing**

?? - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Dana: Aww, I got a sweet little ass...lol


Quoting Laura: Dana...who says? ;P




SAYS ME :D









Mary, I understand completely what you're saying but a car salesman, a real estate agent, a personal shopper, etc etc etc those careers people go into on purpose knowing that the income can be unreliable - and determined to make it work. Those jobs though, take a certain kind of personality too, a certain sales sauve demeanor that people generally have before they decide to pursue that career.



And again, sorry, I don't have any real emotion available for people to whine about positions they choose, like a server, that are ALWAYS unreliable. I do understand that the economy is the shits these days - but your point is really... I dunno... pointless in a sense because in a bad economy it's just common sense that certain jobs aren't stable or less stable than others. I know common sense is pretty rare these days but that is common sense.



My point - that you are purposefully ignoring for whatever reason - is that when you choose a career, when you apply for a job it is your responsibility to make sure that job or even multiple jobs will cover your means to live and if it does not then it is up to you to find another job or more jobs so that you make that money........... relying on TIPS to cover your rent is silly, stupid and careless. And if that doesn't click, well, then there's not much more to say cause it shouldn't take much to understand that point.

Dana - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Laura:


Dana...who says? ;P



Why Jo says!  :)  Hey I take it where I can get it!  :)

Isobel - posted on 11/22/2009

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It's always been printed on menus where I go as well...and we always used to tell whoever was booking the party as well :)

Dana...who says? ;P

?? - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting Mary:

For those of you who think that servers should be paid the standard minimum wage, and that "it shouldn't be the customer paying your wages"...well, I find that argument silly.




I think it's silly to expect the customers to directly pay your wage. If you have bills to pay and you need a stable income, you shouldn't be putting yourself in the position to rely on something that is 100% unreliable.



I'm not arguing the large party fee - but that's what it is - it's not a gratuity, it's a fee. Most reputable places generally quote that fee when booking the table. And most places, worth their dime, will state before seating you that there is a fee for parties over X amount of people. BEFORE they are seated.



In this particular story, I don't see anywhere, where they were told before they were seated that there was a mandatory "gratuity" they would have to pay. So I can't really say but whenever I've gone to a restaurant with more than 8 people we were told before we were seated that there was an extra fee that would be added to the bill at the end of the night for the extra service large parties required. We still ate there and we were happy to pay the fee (we also didn't get shitty service - and we did leave an actual tip) but if we hadn't been told about the fee to begin with, gaurentee'd we would have been fucking PISSED that these douches were adding an extra amount to our bill that we were unaware that we had to pay.



It's unacceptabe and unprofessional to 'spring' fee's on customers.

?? - posted on 11/22/2009

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Quoting dana:



Quoting Jo:




Quoting Diana:
A server can only handle a large group and maybe one or two other tables most of the time. So if that large table chooses not to tip or tips poorly, they are taking time away from the server who could've waited on several smaller tables instead and perhaps made serveral good tips in the space of time and with the amount of energy it took to deal with the large group.

A lot of gripes are actually things that are not the servers' fault-unless (s)he forgot to put the food order in, it's generally the kitchen's fault that it takes forever to get the food. Sometimes hostesses will overload the server and they can't pay the proper amount of attention to a table.

I'm not saying it's never the servers' fault, because sometimes it is...I'm just saying that sometimes they get blamed for things that aren't legitimately their fault, and large groups pose some pretty specific challenges.






This is what bothers me about this - it takes 2 minutes to grab a pitcher of water, go to the table and say;

"Sorry for the delay, the kitchen is just a little backed up at the moment - we've got a party in today *haha* you know how they can be *wink* can I refill anyone's water? Get anyone a drink? Some bread sticks to hold you over? It shouldn't be long at all, I'll go check for you! *big smile*"

Just saying anything along those lines, goes A LONG WAY when you're waiting for and paying for your dinner just like everyone else in the restaurant. And that IS part of a server's job, to serve the customer - even if it is just drinks and reasons until the ktichen pulls the back up.

I agree with Jeannette, as I said before, a server is a job just like any other job - I didn't get tips for my job - I worked in retail, I spent my entire shift 'serving' my customers, I put in just as much effort and energy helping women find THE perfect outfit; they came in with their 'order' and I did everything I could to make sure they got what they wanted. But I didn't get tips - because it's my job - I was getting paid to do that. If I didn't like how much money I was getting to do my job............... it would be up to me to find a different job with a better wage!!!! It was NOT up to my customers to pad my wages.





The question then is, did you only get paid $2.25 an hour for working retail? 






No, but you can bet your sweet lil ass that I wouldn't stay at a job that only paid $2.25 an hour :) Actually, I wouldn't even accept a job that only pays $2.25 an hour, I wouldn't even apply for that job. One of my first questions while applying for a position is "What is the wage?" And if that ## isn't sufficient, I'm not wasting my time there.

Jodi - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Mary:

Those of you against the mandatory gratuity for large parties...I'm sorry, but how can you not get it? As I said earlier, it's not so much a "gratutity" as it is a large party service charge. Really, it's just a question of semantics. It is not optional, it is not a reflection of your opinion of service received...it is a FEE for the additional work, time and effort that parties of 6-8 or more require. It's also something that you are informed of up front. It's just like the difference between cooking dinner on a Monday night for your household, and hosting a holiday meal for your entire extended family (except your family doesn't "tip" you!).



Well, perhaps it shouldn't be called a "tip" or "gratuity" then :)  I know, just a matter of semantics.  But then, as I said, I am in Australia, where staff are all paid a minimum wage, and tips and gratuities are optional and only given for good service.   Also, in this country, because all staff in a restaurant are on a minimum wage, in most places, the tips are actually added together at the end of the night and distributed amongst ALL of the staff, not just the servers.  But honestly, if it is mandatory, they should consider calling it something else.

Mary - posted on 11/21/2009

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Ok, I can't "reply with quote" to everything I want to, so I'll just try to summarize....



For those of you who think that servers should be paid the standard minimum wage, and that "it shouldn't be the customer paying your wages"...well, I find that argument silly. Ultimately, it IS the customer who pays the wages...in retail, it's just a little more indirectly. If a restaurant were required to pay its waitstaff the current minimum wage, the only way they could do so would be to raise it's prices. You may not be tipping, but you are still paying for service...it's just more condensed, and less variable.



I think the current system works, because it's an incentive for servers to bust their ass and do a good job; their income is typically reflective of their efforts. It's similar to working on commission in sales, or merit-based raises/bonuses in the business world. Most of us who have waited tables would tell you we liked working for tips, and that it generally benefitted our overall income as compared to workin for a flat wage. It tends to even out between the tight wads and the generous ones.



Those of you against the mandatory gratuity for large parties...I'm sorry, but how can you not get it? As I said earlier, it's not so much a "gratutity" as it is a large party service charge. Really, it's just a question of semantics. It is not optional, it is not a reflection of your opinion of service received...it is a FEE for the additional work, time and effort that parties of 6-8 or more require. It's also something that you are informed of up front. It's just like the difference between cooking dinner on a Monday night for your household, and hosting a holiday meal for your entire extended family (except your family doesn't "tip" you!).

Isobel - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Konda:

I always leave a tip, it may be a quarter for piss poor service, but I want them to know I didn't 'forget', I just thought they sucked. If it is really bad, I fill out a comment car and leave it with the hostess. Tipping is a choice and should be just that, I do think that waiters/waitress's should get minimum wage, but I don't make the rules, if I get bad service, then you get a bad tip. Eating out is a luxury these days, people are hurting for money, so waitresses should know that and try their best......oh and I do understand 'bad days' and you can usually tell, but just as with any job, you have to leave your personal life at home.


I have thrown quarters at people like you ;P

Dana - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Jo:



Quoting Diana:
A server can only handle a large group and maybe one or two other tables most of the time. So if that large table chooses not to tip or tips poorly, they are taking time away from the server who could've waited on several smaller tables instead and perhaps made serveral good tips in the space of time and with the amount of energy it took to deal with the large group.

A lot of gripes are actually things that are not the servers' fault-unless (s)he forgot to put the food order in, it's generally the kitchen's fault that it takes forever to get the food. Sometimes hostesses will overload the server and they can't pay the proper amount of attention to a table.

I'm not saying it's never the servers' fault, because sometimes it is...I'm just saying that sometimes they get blamed for things that aren't legitimately their fault, and large groups pose some pretty specific challenges.





This is what bothers me about this - it takes 2 minutes to grab a pitcher of water, go to the table and say;

"Sorry for the delay, the kitchen is just a little backed up at the moment - we've got a party in today *haha* you know how they can be *wink* can I refill anyone's water? Get anyone a drink? Some bread sticks to hold you over? It shouldn't be long at all, I'll go check for you! *big smile*"

Just saying anything along those lines, goes A LONG WAY when you're waiting for and paying for your dinner just like everyone else in the restaurant. And that IS part of a server's job, to serve the customer - even if it is just drinks and reasons until the ktichen pulls the back up.

I agree with Jeannette, as I said before, a server is a job just like any other job - I didn't get tips for my job - I worked in retail, I spent my entire shift 'serving' my customers, I put in just as much effort and energy helping women find THE perfect outfit; they came in with their 'order' and I did everything I could to make sure they got what they wanted. But I didn't get tips - because it's my job - I was getting paid to do that. If I didn't like how much money I was getting to do my job............... it would be up to me to find a different job with a better wage!!!! It was NOT up to my customers to pad my wages.


The question then is, did you only get paid $2.25 an hour for working retail? 

Sarah - posted on 11/21/2009

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I have spent many years as a server and unlike many servers, I love my job. I enjoy the interaction with different people that I get every day.

Now do I think that servers should be paid more by the restaurants they work at? Actually NO I don't! I make a heck of a lot more than minumum wage by getting tips. If you are a GOOD server you can make a killing...even on extremly slow shifts I make at least $10 an hour in tips alone, and again that is on SLOW days. Busy days I make a lot more. If server wage was raised to minumum wage, a couple of things would happen. One, servers would make less money (well at least the good ones, bad ones would probably make more, but they shouldn't be servers anyway). Two, restaurants would raise their prices to accomadate for having to pay their employees more. Now as guests, you would essentially be tipping your server whether or not you felt that they deserved it! Three, I feel as if the overall quality of service would way decrease since servers would be getting paid the same regardless of how good of work they did for you. I have seen this occur in places where servers pool there tips, overall the level of service seems to decrease since you do not work just for yourself.

I think that if you go out to eat you should be able to afford at least a 20% tip. If you can't afford to leave that tip, stay home! Now that does not mean you should have to tip 20%, if you have poor service, by all means leave less or none (a small tip is a bigger insult than no tip to a server) but if you have superb service take care of your server, they worked hard for you.

As regards to the individuals refusing to pay the automatic gratuity being arrested, I really think that the restaurant was technically in the right, but it was possibly a poor business decision. At every restaurant I have worked at it has said right on the menu that an automatic gratuity of xx% is added to parties of x or more (it varies per establishment). This is an agreement on the patrons part, it IS part of the bill and not paying it is the same as walking out on the rest of your check or shoplifting. However, I have always had managers who are willing to leave it off of the bill of the guest wishes it left off. Obviously this management was willing too and that is their right!

And by the way, the law states that if servers do NOT recieve enough tips to reach minumum wage, the restaurant is required to make up the difference. Of course, if this happens continuously, you would most likely be out of a job....

Sharon - posted on 11/21/2009

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The last time we went out for breakfast we saw our sever twice. Once when she took our order. Once when she delivered it. I had to fetch creamer, napkins, the server again, to get our bill, and the place was NOT busy. They just sucked. They got 2 dollars for $40 meal. I never even saw them anywhere in the restaurant.

Normally I tip 15% for ok service. 20% when the server tries really hard to accomodate us, 30% if they go above & beyond the call of duty.

But if you sit on your ass behind the kitchen texting and bullshitting with friends, you can kiss my ass if you think I'm going to pay you.

[deleted account]

Yes, but I bet you did get paid minimum wage at least. What needs to change here is the law-but until then I have sympathy on people working for $5 less than the minimum wage per hour to bring me my food and drink, which if I were at home I'd get off my ass and do myself.



Also, how would it be different than comission? I'm just speculating. It occurred to me when you said retail that many places, like furniture stores, pay on comission. In most places, you make a minimum salary called a draw if you don't make enough comission to go over what you would've been paid based on hourly work (also in most places you can only do that a few times before getting fired for not selling enough). Perhaps some similar system could be worked out.



I know there are sometimes tip pools. At establisments with tip pools, waitresses are generally paid a bit more (closer to 5 than 7 still, but more than 2) an hour, and all tips are collected and shared evenly by waitstaff at the end of the night-then nobody gets screwed if they had the asshole tables and they're also making enough to actually get a decent paycheck.



I dunno. The current system is broken, though. It's shit for someone to have to work their ass off bringing people things they could get for themselves and only be paid $2.13 an hour for it.



Waiting tables is a good job for a college student who needs something that will work around their schedule. I live in a college town right now, and I'm hard pressed to find servers around here who aren't college students. Also, with the economy down, you take what you can find...Even if it's waitressing. I don't think it's necessarily fair to tell them to either suck it up and deal with low pay or find another job. What we need to do is raise their pay, then either eliminate tipping or just do it when the service really *is* exceptional, because as of right now I (and most of the people I know/have known who have waited tables) don't see it as a reward, but as something I need to do in order to make waiting my table worth that server's time.

?? - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Diana:

A server can only handle a large group and maybe one or two other tables most of the time. So if that large table chooses not to tip or tips poorly, they are taking time away from the server who could've waited on several smaller tables instead and perhaps made serveral good tips in the space of time and with the amount of energy it took to deal with the large group.



A lot of gripes are actually things that are not the servers' fault-unless (s)he forgot to put the food order in, it's generally the kitchen's fault that it takes forever to get the food. Sometimes hostesses will overload the server and they can't pay the proper amount of attention to a table.



I'm not saying it's never the servers' fault, because sometimes it is...I'm just saying that sometimes they get blamed for things that aren't legitimately their fault, and large groups pose some pretty specific challenges.






This is what bothers me about this - it takes 2 minutes to grab a pitcher of water, go to the table and say;



"Sorry for the delay, the kitchen is just a little backed up at the moment - we've got a party in today *haha* you know how they can be *wink* can I refill anyone's water? Get anyone a drink? Some bread sticks to hold you over? It shouldn't be long at all, I'll go check for you! *big smile*"



Just saying anything along those lines, goes A LONG WAY when you're waiting for and paying for your dinner just like everyone else in the restaurant. And that IS part of a server's job, to serve the customer - even if it is just drinks and reasons until the ktichen pulls the back up.



I agree with Jeannette, as I said before, a server is a job just like any other job - I didn't get tips for my job - I worked in retail, I spent my entire shift 'serving' my customers, I put in just as much effort and energy helping women find THE perfect outfit; they came in with their 'order' and I did everything I could to make sure they got what they wanted. But I didn't get tips - because it's my job - I was getting paid to do that. If I didn't like how much money I was getting to do my job............... it would be up to me to find a different job with a better wage!!!! It was NOT up to my customers to pad my wages.

[deleted account]

Quoting Jeannette:

OMG! Now I know America has sects that are completely in line with Communist China! Thought Police! Thought Police! I can't believe there is a LAW regarding something such as a "gratuity" which is an opinion! For crying out loud! Whoever thunk this crap up needs to go to prison! We were once a free nation.



haha...



Well the law actually has nothing to do with gratuity. The two people who were arrested are being charged with stealing because they wouldn't pay the mandatory gratuity charge. If they hadn't been in a large group then there would be no issue, becaue gratuity would've been optional and them not leaving it wouldn't have been a problem. It might've made them assholes, but it wouldn't have been illegal.

[deleted account]

I think you're right...The laws need to be changed. But until they are, I agree with the pub...The gratuity was mandatory, and if the party had a problem with tipping they should've taken it up with a manager before the bill came or at least before they decided to leave. I also find it suspicious that they were the only two out of the six who were arrested. If the two of them took the entire bill then that explains it, but if not I guess they were the only two who didn't pay the tip, which would speak volumes about who is wrong and who is right in the situation.



Edit: Since the 18% gratuity would've been $16, that means the bill was around $160, so it was either an EXTREMELY expensive pub or (and I'm guessing this is the case) they were paying for the group. Seems like if you're already willing to pay the pub $160-ish (and it's the pub's fault that the food is late, not the server's) you should just go ahead and pay another $16. It's not a big effing deal, really.

Jeannette - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Diana:



Quoting dana:

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 and a business in Ohio is only required to pay $2.13 and hour for waitresses.






This is why I think they should've paid the tip.






A server can only handle a large group and maybe one or two other tables most of the time. So if that large table chooses not to tip or tips poorly, they are taking time away from the server who could've waited on several smaller tables instead and perhaps made serveral good tips in the space of time and with the amount of energy it took to deal with the large group.






A lot of gripes are actually things that are  not the servers' fault-unless (s)he forgot to put the food order in, it's generally the kitchen's fault that it takes forever to get the food. Sometimes hostesses will overload the server and they can't pay the proper amount of attention to a table.






I'm not saying it's never the servers' fault, because sometimes it is...I'm just saying that sometimes they get blamed for things that aren't legitimately their fault, and large groups pose some pretty specific challenges. Until/unless a server makes minimum wage (which I think they should-or they should at least make 5.00 an hour instead of 2.13....) I don't think that a mandatory gratuity for servers with 8 or 10-top tables is unreasonable...And I think that those who feel that it's unreasonable should either not eat in restaraunts with mandatory tips or, if they have a legitimate gripe, should speak to a manager well before their bill comes to the table.





Then the laws need to be changed so that EVERYONE makes at least minimum wage!  Tips should be outlawed anyway.  Service jobs are jobs like everything else!  I don't get tips for delivering mail, nor would I expect one....ever!  I would like to know what butt head thought up the whole tip thing for service jobs anyway...stupid stupid crap!  Work for a wage-period!

Jeannette - posted on 11/21/2009

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OMG! Now I know America has sects that are completely in line with Communist China! Thought Police! Thought Police! I can't believe there is a LAW regarding something such as a "gratuity" which is an opinion! For crying out loud! Whoever thunk this crap up needs to go to prison! We were once a free nation.

[deleted account]

Quoting dana:

The federal minimum wage is $7.25 and a business in Ohio is only required to pay $2.13 and hour for waitresses.



This is why I think they should've paid the tip.



A server can only handle a large group and maybe one or two other tables most of the time. So if that large table chooses not to tip or tips poorly, they are taking time away from the server who could've waited on several smaller tables instead and perhaps made serveral good tips in the space of time and with the amount of energy it took to deal with the large group.



A lot of gripes are actually things that are  not the servers' fault-unless (s)he forgot to put the food order in, it's generally the kitchen's fault that it takes forever to get the food. Sometimes hostesses will overload the server and they can't pay the proper amount of attention to a table.



I'm not saying it's never the servers' fault, because sometimes it is...I'm just saying that sometimes they get blamed for things that aren't legitimately their fault, and large groups pose some pretty specific challenges. Until/unless a server makes minimum wage (which I think they should-or they should at least make 5.00 an hour instead of 2.13....) I don't think that a mandatory gratuity for servers with 8 or 10-top tables is unreasonable...And I think that those who feel that it's unreasonable should either not eat in restaraunts with mandatory tips or, if they have a legitimate gripe, should speak to a manager well before their bill comes to the table.

Traci - posted on 11/21/2009

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It's amazing that there are so many ignorant people out there who don't leave tips. After talking to many waitresses there are many who just don't. Sometimes I do think its the servers fault, but oftentimes whatever the problem is is out of their hands. I am a great tipper, I usually leave 25%, even if it's just my hubby and me. I know what they get paid, and if they keep your drink filled and keep you in the know about the status of your order, I like to hook 'em up. I do the same for when I go get a haircut. I'll usually tip 5 bucks for a 13 dollar haircut.



I must be honest, though. I think if you recieve terrible service, you should leave nothing. If you leave a quarter, they'll think you are cheap. If you leave nothing, you are sending a message. I've only done that once. Applebee's. It was around 3pm, the place was empty. Our drinks were empty for a long time, our food took FOREVER. And the guy didn't even come by to check on us or tell us what was taking so long. He was nowhere to be seen. So we left nothing. And even though we felt bad, we did it to send him a message. Too bad for him, because we are excellent tippers.....and we wouldn't have done that if he had been coming by to tell us why everything was taking so long. Just keep your customers informed, you know? Not too much to ask. Like I said, the place was empty. Maybe 5 tables were occupied in the whole restaurant.

Dana - posted on 11/21/2009

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Quoting Konda:

I always leave a tip, it may be a quarter for piss poor service, but I want them to know I didn't 'forget', I just thought they sucked. If it is really bad, I fill out a comment car and leave it with the hostess. Tipping is a choice and should be just that, I do think that waiters/waitress's should get minimum wage, but I don't make the rules, if I get bad service, then you get a bad tip. Eating out is a luxury these days, people are hurting for money, so waitresses should know that and try their best......oh and I do understand 'bad days' and you can usually tell, but just as with any job, you have to leave your personal life at home.



Yeah but the problem with bad days is that it's usually the customer who's having a bad day and not the waitress.  I understand there are bad ones out there but more often than not it's the customer who expects too much. 

Konda - posted on 11/20/2009

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I always leave a tip, it may be a quarter for piss poor service, but I want them to know I didn't 'forget', I just thought they sucked. If it is really bad, I fill out a comment car and leave it with the hostess. Tipping is a choice and should be just that, I do think that waiters/waitress's should get minimum wage, but I don't make the rules, if I get bad service, then you get a bad tip. Eating out is a luxury these days, people are hurting for money, so waitresses should know that and try their best......oh and I do understand 'bad days' and you can usually tell, but just as with any job, you have to leave your personal life at home.

Lindsay - posted on 11/20/2009

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I've never waited tables but did work in a restaurant in high school. I was a hostess and cashier because they served alcohol and wasn't old enough to serve, so I couldn't wait tables. Just being in that atmosphere though makes you realize how important it is to tip. Those girls made $2.13 an hour and after their taxes were taken out, their check was usually less than $5 for the week. Thier tips were the only thing they made.

I always tip, usually 25% unless it's poor service. If it's really bad service, I will leave the 10%. I just can't stiff a waitress knowing that's all that they make. But when the gratuity is added to the bill, I will not leave anything but what is required. It's their loss I suppose because I would typically leave more. Now if they give outstanding service, I may leave a little more but that's rare.

Sharon - posted on 11/20/2009

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The pub is wrong.

Its sad that these places to have to include a mandatory tip because the common public is so fucking ignorant they try to cheap out on the tip.

But if you have a legitimate bitch - like waiting an hour for your drinks or food or only seeing your waitress when you originally placed your order, you should be able to dispute the the stupid tip.

I would have done the same as they did... screw you and your lousy service, take me to jail!

ME - posted on 11/20/2009

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In CO., as recently as 2006, I got paid 2.13/hour. That didn't even cover my health insurance premium each month...so, if I didn't get a tip, I didn't make ANY money. I DID get stiffed many times tho, and not because the service was bad. I was a great waitress, and those who have waited tables or worked behind a bar are deffinately the ones you want sitting at your table. I have left as little as 10% for horrible service, but I MEAN horrible...I won't leave less than that tho, and I've only done it once or twice.

Jodi - posted on 11/20/2009

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Our Federal Minimum Wage is AU$13.51 an hour (around US$15) for an adult (over 20). So that explains a LOT. Oh, and we have to pay extra on weekends and Public Holidays. We actually end up paying our staff about $32 an hour on a public holiday and $20 an hour on a Sunday....no wonder we are always broke or working it ourselves, LOL. (Keep in mind, I am talking our lowest skilled staff, higher skills get extra under the awards, which is fair enough).

Dana - posted on 11/20/2009

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Quoting Mary:

1st off...yes, Dana I did wait tables all through high school & college. Honestly, some days I think nursing isn't all that different, lol!

I've read all the posts about minimum wage, and servers being paid less than that...gotta say, it's actually not too bad a deal if you're a halfway friendly person who works hard. 20 some years ago when I last did it, I was paid $2.05/hr, plus tips. I ALWAYS made more than any of my friends who had minimum wage jobs, even when I worked at Friendlies! Once I turned 18, and worked in a place that served alcohol, my income went up tremendously...I worked in a place that did a huge business lunch crowd, and those fools were using expense accounts, so they were very generous! I often cleared between $150-$200 in an afternoon. Of course, I busted my ass and made nice with the annoying and obnoxious, but it was worth it! Thanks to them, my college book bill, car expenses and party $$ for the semester was all covered.



Great, I keep thinking I may go to school for nursing but, not sure I like the fact that it's like waiting tables.  Iol.  You're right too, the money is great if you know what you're doing.  That's why I always return to it.  I'd work 5 hrs a day and make an average of $40.00 an hr for weekends, $30.00-35.00 week days. 

Mary - posted on 11/20/2009

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1st off...yes, Dana I did wait tables all through high school & college. Honestly, some days I think nursing isn't all that different, lol!

I've read all the posts about minimum wage, and servers being paid less than that...gotta say, it's actually not too bad a deal if you're a halfway friendly person who works hard. 20 some years ago when I last did it, I was paid $2.05/hr, plus tips. I ALWAYS made more than any of my friends who had minimum wage jobs, even when I worked at Friendlies! Once I turned 18, and worked in a place that served alcohol, my income went up tremendously...I worked in a place that did a huge business lunch crowd, and those fools were using expense accounts, so they were very generous! I often cleared between $150-$200 in an afternoon. Of course, I busted my ass and made nice with the annoying and obnoxious, but it was worth it! Thanks to them, my college book bill, car expenses and party $$ for the semester was all covered.

Jenny - posted on 11/20/2009

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I just noticed we're the lowest for minimum wage in the country. No wonder they're talking about raising it.

Amie - posted on 11/20/2009

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This site is easier to read. It's from the Labour section of the Government of Canada's page.

http://srv116.services.gc.ca/dimt-wid/sm...

This site (which I think is what Jenny copy and pasted) shows minimum wage for young workers and specific occupations.

http://srv116.services.gc.ca/dimt-wid/sm...

Both are set up to show what is expected in each province. Our Labour laws can and do enforce pay rates. With the exception of unions, if you are in a union your union fights for that with your employer.

Jenny - posted on 11/20/2009

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BC's minimum wage:



•B.C.’s general minimum wage is $8 per hour.

•The First Job/Entry Level minimum wage is $6 per hour. This only applies to employees with no paid work experience before November 15, 2001. After they have worked for a total of 500 hours with one or more employers, these employees are entitled to the regular minimum wage rate. See the Factsheet - First Job/Entry-level Wage.

•Minimum wage for live-in home support workers for each day or part of a day worked is $80.

•Minimum wage for resident caretakers in apartment buildings with more than 8 but less than 61 suites is $480 per month plus $19.25 for each suite.

•Minimum wage for resident caretakers in apartment buildings with more than 60 suites is $1,635 per month.

Jenny - posted on 11/20/2009

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Quoting Laura:

I don't know about the US...but I think I should add that they minimum wage here in Canada for servers is $3/hr lower than the normal minimum wage.



That's by province. From the BC Employment Standards Act:



Part 4 — Minimum Wages





Minimum hourly wage



15 (1)  Subject to sections 16 to 18, the minimum wage is $8.00 an hour.



(2)  Despite subsection (1), the minimum wage is $6.00 an hour for an employee who



(a) has no paid employment experience before November 15, 2001, and



(b) has 500 or fewer hours of cumulative paid employment experience with one or more employers.



[en. B.C. Reg. 307/2000, s. 2; am. B.C. Reg. 261/2001.]







Minimum daily wage



16 (1)  The minimum daily wage for a live-in home support worker is $80.00 for each day or part day worked.



(2)  The minimum daily wage for a live-in camp leader is $64 for each day or part day worked.



[en. B.C. Reg. 307/2000, s. 2.]







Minimum wage — resident caretakers



17 The minimum wage for a resident caretaker is,



(a) for an apartment building containing 9 to 60 residential suites, $480.00 a month plus $19.25 for each suite, and



(b) for an apartment building containing 61 or more residential suites, $1 635.00.



[en. B.C. Reg. 307/2000, s. 2.]



[deleted account]

In Nevada (in the US if you didn't know), the waiter/waitressing minimum wage is around $2.25 and that is their hourly wage as long as their total earnings (including tips, which are taxed in Nevada) equalls minimum wage. I know this because my best friend is a server in Nevada.

Dana - posted on 11/20/2009

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The federal minimum wage is $7.25 and a business in Ohio is only required to pay $2.13 and hour for waitresses.

~Jennifer - posted on 11/20/2009

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Most plaves have a disclaimer righ on the menu that says "a _ _ % gratuity will be automatically added to parties of 8 or more"



If they didn't want to pay the tip, they should have left without ordering, or complained LONG before they got their bill about the time they had to wait AND the shit service.



(That's Pennsylvania for ya - SO glad I got out of that state)

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