Bin Laden..... celebrate or prepare

America3437 - posted on 05/02/2011 ( 57 moms have responded )

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Well it seems that America has finally done what we said we were going to do. Bin Laden is dead and how are we as americans supposed to feel? To me this is bitter sweet! We have started an whole other issue, he had a whole slew of follwers and they are not celebrating with us they are plotting agnist us and if we thought 9/11 was bad just hold on cause I'm sure we have not seen the last of them. So I ask do we celebrate or prepare for the worst? To those of you who surrived the 9/11 attacks I hope this brings you some peace! To the famlies of our military THANK YOU!!! I am truly proud of each and everyone of you!!!! So to this community I ask you to stop and thank a soldier today!!!

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Jodi - posted on 05/02/2011

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How about thanking the families of the military in all the other countries who have also been fully involved in this operation? Really, I am just getting sick of "Americans" thinking that they are the only ones who were ever victims of this man, and the only ones out there seeking justice.

America did not do this on their own. Just sayin'.

Isobel - posted on 05/04/2011

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ok...in order to stop the feeling on behalf of Americans that they are being bashed...I will from now on say "us" because we are all there...we have all been there...Western society as a whole has been guilty of too much in the middle east.

Kati, GW was (in many people's opinion) only going into the middle east to finish his dad's work...the people in the middle east have often expressed, not a hatred for OUR way of life, but a desire to be left the fuck alone.

I don't think any of us think that 9-11 was deserved or justifiable...just understandable.

They have been under some sort of seige or occupation for hundreds of years.

It is impossible to create a terrorist in a society where the people feel safe, secure, and free.

And you are right...a war on terrorism CAN NEVER end..you know why? cause there is no enemy, terrorism is a tactic used by EVERY military but part of the definition is that it is ALWAYS what the other guy does and never what "we" do.

Johnny - posted on 05/04/2011

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Jenny, I was NOT defending the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and all the other places that the American government has decided to interfere in. I am very much opposed to those things. This is not the same as those at all. This man basically hired or contracted agents to commit murders. Like any mass murderer, he has an agenda. And he killed innocent civilians.

I find this idea that America should have just sat back and let a man who murdered thousands of their people in cold blood roam free and clear lacking in empathy and common sense.

This thread isn't about whether or not all the wars that NATO countries have engaged in with Muslim states are right or wrong. I personally strongly disagree with most of them. But their exacting revenge and executing Bin Laden is a different kind of thing. I wish they'd just gone out sought to kill or capture Al Qaeda bigwigs from day one. Skipped the whole military invasion of other countries and the resulting civilian deaths.

Reading through this thread, I also find that many people are holding America to a standard that they just aren't holding the terrorists and the states supporting terrorism to. All these allusions to other methods of dealing with this and fixing the problems and making amends is so pie-in-the-sky. There are people out there who love to hate. It doesn't matter what you do, they'll want to kill you. They've blown up NGO's and university students taking time off to build schools and wells. They don't give a shit what policy America has. It's rich, it's Christian and they hate that. Obviously Muslim opinion on America has been tainted by its past actions, that's a no brainer. But the damage is done. To think that they should just sit back and take it while terrorists blow up their people is redonkulous!

Dana - posted on 05/04/2011

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No, the US isn't innocent with what's gone on in Iraq, neither is Canada, Australia, England, etc... So yes, all countries have made mistakes BUT, our good far out weighs the bad. That can't be said for Bin Laden.

Jodi - posted on 05/04/2011

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I think Jenny is suggesting that Osama and his followers probably also had those very same reasons. Sorry, but the US isn't innocent either. They just happen to be on the winning side. I am pretty sure we have had this discussion before in relation to something else, and how it seems only those on the losing side are charged with war crimes, etc. Now I am not saying in any way that I have a problem with Osama being dead, but I think it is worthy to recognise that no-one in any of this is totally innocent.

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Lindsy - posted on 05/06/2011

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Well being a mom I'd say I'm working on being "prepared" for nearly anything. I have the flashlights and shoes next to the beds and the plans in case and the non-perishable food and know how to turn off the gas and 2 weeks worth of bottled water etc......
B/C if I didn't do these things I would feel I wasn't doing my job.....that being said the Gov. I'm sure at this stage in the game have also covered as many bases as they can.
Just make sure you have yours covered too.....beyond that worrying won't achieve anything.

America3437 - posted on 05/05/2011

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The only reason GW attacked Iraq was to rectifiy a death threat made to his father by Sadam and he (GW) went into Iraq with the full intention of "taking him(Sadam) down" and he did not do it alone! We sent thousands of our troops over there to do the job! I personally support our troops but not our government! I mean really people how would America act if these countries decided to put up military bases in america? Why should we have the right to put our bases in their country. The people who are aginist America aren't necessarly angry at us as citizens but the fact that we (America) thinks they have the right to "invade"(for the lack of a better word) whenever we choose! We better wake up and see that America is selfish as a nation and I can't say I disagree! War or not we need to keep our forces at home so that when all the world gets fed up we actually have troops here to defend our homeland! There are enough people in these countries that if they want something done they could do it! It time for America to take care of America!

Isobel - posted on 05/05/2011

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I honestly believe that they would have given him a fair (as possible) trial had he surrendered upon their arrival...Saddam Houssein got one.

Like I said earlier, when you greet the cops with guns, you surrender your right to a fair trial.

Jenny - posted on 05/04/2011

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The whole thing has made me pissy, let me regroup and try again.



I wouldn't go so far as to say he should have been left alone. He should have had a trial. It was a kill mission from the get-go (regardless of what they said), he was never coming out. Some people are OK with that. I would have liked to see a higher road taken. I would have liked to see the whole thing right from Day 1 done differently. Perhaps a covert op to take out the top guys combined with the end of Empire building as foreign policy and leave the troops out of it could have ended the cycle of violence quicker over the long term. This just feels like quicksand.



I do understand why the decision was made and the context it was made in. Given his position, Obama has made the best choices he could, I do give him that.

Johnny - posted on 05/04/2011

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I should mention that I am actually very anti-war as well. I have been active in protesting each and every war for the last 20 years and I always vote against militaristic policy. I just do not agree with you all that America should have let Bin Laden live happily ever after in his mansion. I find it pretty offensive actually.

Jenny - posted on 05/04/2011

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One thing to consider about US foreign policy though: you still have 57,000 troops in Germany. Can you imagine if Canada still had a base in Washington DC?

Jenny - posted on 05/04/2011

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I'm trying to say us too Laura. Canada is in it too. With our new Harper Government and shiny new jets, expect us to be in much deeper too. *Vomits*

[deleted account]

I've been anti-war - all wars - for years! I was writting anti-Vietnam wars essays in school. (Did a beauty on the M y Lai Massacre!) I was demonstrating against wars (still vietnam!) when I was at uni. I marched against the invasion of Iraq.
Yes, Bin Laden was a monster - but he didn't plan it all alone. And he had financial help from various countries at various times in his career. But bombing any country, where you're bound to kill innocent civilians can't be excused either!

Jodi - posted on 05/04/2011

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Oh, I'm not heated about it at all Kati. I was in my 20s when the Gulf War happened. I remember a LOT of the shit that went down and how I felt about it at the time.

Rosie - posted on 05/04/2011

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i've always gathered, or rather just been told (and apparantly listened like a sheep) that al quaeda's beef with the US is about what the united states stands for and how those who don't believe like they do must die. we see images of them shouting their phrases of kill the infidels and so on on our media. i don't see how killing US civilians accomplishes retribution for the gulf war. it wasn't the afghan or iraqi government that declared war on us, it was a fringe group of radicals who decided to kill a bunch of civilians. idk, am i making sense. i know this argument is getting heated, and i don't want it to come off as i'm pissed or anything. :P

Jodi - posted on 05/04/2011

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Oh, nothing makes ANY of it excusable. I absolutely ABHOR war and don't think it ever justifies anything. But I do see the original Gulf War, and our actions with respect to that have had a huge impact on the state of the world today.



And it doesn't help that prior to the Gulf War, when the US invaded Iraq (obviously following the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait), during the Iran/iraq war the US supplied IRAQ with their arms.



The middle east has very little respect for the US for that. Supply arms to one side during one war, and then invade the side they were supplying. It didn't matter the reasoning. To them this is not reasonable, nor honourable. It is all VERY complex. But this HAS had implications toward where we are today.

Rosie - posted on 05/04/2011

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see, i was like 13 when that stuff was going on. i honestly don't know much about what went on during that time.

war rules are different to me than what al quaeda (sp?) did. with war you deal with the people who are in the battle, not civilians. so whatever the US army did back then, still doesn't make it excusable to me for people to come here with the sole purpose to kill civilians.
i'm certainly not arguing that the iraqi civilians lives are not worth anything. i dont' even feel we should've been in iraq in the first place. i do feel we should be in afghanistan and aparantly pakistan. trying to get the people responsible for the attack on my country. a war on terrorism is never going to end, and i do get that. i do think however, the people responsible for the attack on my country should be held accountable whether that means by death or trial.

as for the blowing up japan in the 40's yeas, that is complete terrorism in my mind. i seriously can't believe what was done to that country. none of those people deserved to die. :(

Jodi - posted on 05/04/2011

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Kati, the US is not innocent (neither are any of us for that matter). Remember the Gulf War? We all intervened in that one, created just a few powerful enemies I am sure. Many, MANY civilians were killed. 9/11 was years in the planning.



Having said that, however, I am not lumping all Americans together in one heap :)

Rosie - posted on 05/04/2011

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so did somebody in our country go over there and kill 3000+ people before? what did america do to deserve it? i'm utterly confused as to why people with brains in their head have such a bad opinion of the united states. it doesn't take much to understand that just like not all muslims are terrorist, not all americans are blithering idiots hell bent on destroying the world and being all powerful. why is that so hard for people to understand? whatever media you're (general you) watching is full of shit.

Rosie - posted on 05/04/2011

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i'm still not understanding what these US civilians did to deserve to be killed.

[deleted account]

We do both. We celebrate for however much and long we want. However, we can also prepare to get rid of the rest of the terrorists when they attack.

Jenny - posted on 05/04/2011

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I'll bet those that support him would disagree that he hasn't done any good. There's no right and wrong in this. It's a big clusterfuck of wrong all the way around. We need to try a new approach.

Jenny - posted on 05/04/2011

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That's exactly what I'm suggesting Jodi. What should have been done is to put as much effort into WHY they did it and fix it from that angle. From their side they are freedom fighters too. This reactionary bullshit just goes in circles into eternity. Punishment doesn't work in any segment of society. Rehabilitation and harm reduction is the way to go.

Why do we blow shit up instead of fixing it?

Etheena - posted on 05/04/2011

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I say prepare, they are like the mythological Hydra. You cut off one head and 3 others sprout out. We shall definitely see...

Rosie - posted on 05/04/2011

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i'm just confused as to what we were supposed to do after a group of people led by osama bin laden, flew a few planes into some buildings killing thousands of people. were we just supposed to sit around thanking him, saying sorry it's alright? nobody in america did anything to these people before 9/11. did they deserve to die?



i don't disagree that the civilian deaths in iraq are disturbing to say the least. i'm not arguing that. but you're making it seem like we have no reason to want the man brought to justice. if someone killed your child for no reason would you just sit back and blow it off? i highly doubt it.

Jenny - posted on 05/04/2011

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Johnny, Bush and Obama have been the ringleaders behind FAR more deaths than Osama (he wasn't in the planes either). Would you be equally indifferent if they were assassinated?

Tah - posted on 05/04/2011

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Well I will personally be thanking my sailor and the soldiers/ sailors/ marines etc that are my neighbors. I also know for a fact that the government is preparing..just to get on base to buy some groceries was a maze and circus...I continue to pray for the country.

[deleted account]

Joy, I too, have issues with misquotes not being checked - I am a professional librarian. However, I do think there must be room for flexibility, and this is one of those times.

Johnny - posted on 05/04/2011

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Personally, I'm not so much bothered by the MLK quote as I am by the Gandhi "an eye for an eye" quote. It's only accurate for this circumstance if you were to change it to "an eye for 6000 eyes". Which really just doesn't have the same ring to it. Let's call a spade a spade. They murdered a mass murderer. Would people have been so upset if they'd shot John Wayne Gacey or the BTK killer. I think not.

Dana - posted on 05/04/2011

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Thank you, Joy.



That has also been exactly what's frustrating me. This should have been something we all can come together about but, instead, it's an attack on America's response to it. I find that distasteful.

JL - posted on 05/04/2011

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Personally I have issues with misinterpreted incorrect historical quotes being plastered around but that is the professional historian in me shouting that to just act like fact checking and research is an unimportant task in this case makes me wonder what else people will readily except as correct and shrug off when they find out it's not. Anyways with that being said. I don't want to discuss anymore the justification of what is the correct response in this situation. We all have the right to react to this in the way that we feel fit as long as we are not doing things like lynching and mobbing people. At this point I would love for everyone around the world to stop arguing with each other and stop pointing at the negatives. Take the this moment to COME TOGETHER. This is a victory for the war on Terrorism for everyone in the world. No it will not end acts of terrorism but it does say that justice will be served and we will never stop fighting and that one day Peace and unity will prevail.

[deleted account]

OK, so the quote isn't all from MLK. Apparently the bit that reads "I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy" should not have been attributed to MLK. Yes, we should check what we post, but let's not get picky, for heaven's sake - I think the words are beautiful, whoever made them up, and I'm proud to have them as my Facebook status.

Becky - posted on 05/03/2011

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Yeah, what Carol said.
I do think these words apply. Not to killing Osama. I don't think that act in itself was an act of hate or vengeance, necessarily. I think it was an act of necessity. But (and mind you, I have only heard about this happening, not actually seen any coverage of it so maybe what I've heard has been exaggerated), people dancing and cheering and celebrating in the streets seems hateful to me. You would not rejoice and celebrate over the death of someone you did not hate. I do not think anyone would argue that 9/11 spawned a lot of hatred, not only towards to Osama and Al' Quaida, but, from some, towards any one from that part of the world or of that religion. That is not right and it does not do anything to bring peace, either to individuals or to our world as a whole. It may be necessary to kill those who threaten us, but it is not necessary nor beneficial to celebrate their deaths.

Jennifer - posted on 05/03/2011

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Yes, this will incite some more of the crazy people but the head crazy is dead and we should all be happy that the evil sob is dead and no longer able to plan the deaths of innocent people. We can't stop terrorism by pretending it doesn't exist and fighting it is very dangerous but fighting is the honorable choice.

Cassie - posted on 05/03/2011

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I guess that can be debated in itself Esther. I used that quote on my status but using it had nothing to do with the fact that it was from MLK. Your reasoning didn't even enter my mind. For me, personally as I can't speak for anyone else, I was never intending for others to feel ashamed but felt that those words better spoke how I felt for myself than I would have been able to say myself...

Esther - posted on 05/03/2011

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I also think that using a quote by MLK is at least in part intended to make people feel ashamed for not living up to his example when they feel joy at someone's death. Well, I never claimed to be anywhere near as saintly as MLK and I definitely do feel joyful.

Dana - posted on 05/03/2011

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Oh, they're great words. I just happen to think they don't apply in this case at all.

Cassie - posted on 05/03/2011

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I just want to say that while the quote is fake, I still think the words are beautiful and meaningful even if they weren't said by MLK jr. Everyone seems so hell-bent on mocking the use of a fake quote but the words still have meaning to me even if they mean nothing to anyone else...

Jenni - posted on 05/03/2011

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@Jodi to clarify, I believe it was his family that was flown out of the US.

I've already stated my opinion on the other thread... so I'm just going to go with the Martin Luther King, Jr quote the same as Becky.

Becky - posted on 05/02/2011

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This has been on a lot of my friend's facebook statuses today and sums up how I feel pretty well.
"I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." --Martin Luther King, Jr.

Yes, Osama was full of hate and I'm sure the world is better off without him. But to rejoice in anyone's death seems inappropriate to me.

Constance - posted on 05/02/2011

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I;m sorry but maybe I am the only one that feels this way but I can't keep quiet. OBL devistated counties all over the world he didn'y just attack the US it was anywhere they decided to kill. I am very proad to be an American and I have military in my blood. countries all around the world hunted him for ove 20 years. It wasn't until he planned the attacks that day 9/11/2001 that we said it is timew to take him out. So many people lost their lives because of him, he took pleasure in all the pain he caused fo everyone around the world.
On that day I watched what he planned to do and he succeeded. he knew putting a 737 into those three buildings was going to make them fall. He knew and that is eaxctly why he did it. It impacted us to the breaking point. My husband was active duty. because of that day I had and thousands of families didn't know when they were going to be home again we couldn't even communicate. With friends that were from New York an D.C. I had to watch and worry for the fiends we had and the families of my freinds that lived there. I had to Be the strong one for everybody around me. I knew that one of my best frriends had a family resturant 1/2 a block from the towers. I had to deal with how do I tell him that he may have lost somebody that hei loved was gone. How can you tell someone that because of one person you lost 15 membes of you family six weeks later? How can you handle seeing that kind of pain in someone you love so very dearly? I had to. I had to do it nobody else me.
Because of that day the majority of the world said no more we have to take him out. He was neve going to stop hurting people until we stopped him. I am vey proud to call myself a wife and a daughter of the U.S. Armed Services. I will never ever forget the innocent lives he has taken.
So do I celabrate absolutly. Do I know we aren't finished yes. I will support the military decisions that have to be made. We all get to walk around free because of those decisions. OBL was no different than Nepoleon and Hitler he just couldn't figure out how to invade othe counties. Every leader that invaded had to be handled and so did he.

I want people to know our soldiers volunteer to protect us. I can;t not support them. No matter what as an Ameican I will always be grateful fo the sacrafices ou men and women from all around the world have made. I have tremendous love and respect for Seal Team six they put their lives in dange to protect you.
I salute everyone one who has worked so hard to take anothe person that was a threat to our world.

Dana - posted on 05/02/2011

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LOL That's fine, it seems things are heated today. We're all a bit touchy.

Jodi - posted on 05/02/2011

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Oh, ok, sorry, I thought it was obvious. **sigh** Don't mind me, I'm just in a fucking bad mood today. My husband is acting like a moron.

Dana - posted on 05/02/2011

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Actually, I didn't know what you meant. lol And since she's talking about this particular mission, that's what I was talking about.

Obviously everyone knows that the war in Afghanistan and Iraq includes many countries. Don't know what "Americans" you're talking to...

Charlie - posted on 05/02/2011

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I think the point is many countries were involved in the war , many lost lives in the search for Osama , other countries have been attacked in the name of Al quaeda, others have been victim too as well as sought justice .

Jodi - posted on 05/02/2011

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Oh, ok then, so we should only thank the handful of soldiers involved in THIS particular operation, so no real need to be stopping the soldiers on the street and thanking them then in that case......or the entire US military for that matter.

Dana, you know exactly what I meant. The OP states "To the families of our military". There are many, many countries who have contributed to GET to this particular point.

Dana - posted on 05/02/2011

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Uh...Osama wasn't in the US when the towers were hit...

And Jodi, I'm unaware of soldiers from other countries being involved in this particular operation, I thought it was just US Navy Seals.

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