breast feeding and family members feeling left out

[deleted account] ( 336 moms have responded )

I have just been reading a locked thread about whether or not breast feeding past 1 year is ok or not.

There were so many great comments and opinions on the many pages of posts and i have not yet finished reading them but it got me thinking...

I think it was the OP that asked a question...Do the fathers and siblings feel left out if the baby is breast fed and they don't get to feed it ?

I found this a ridiculous question but i am assuming that she was actually interested in the answer.....then i started thinking about breast feeding my son 11 years ago and how although i have a large family and he was the first baby, no one gave two hoots about feeding him or not...

Now i have a 14 month old daughter who i breast feed so my son was 10 when she was born....I don't know that my son ever even thought about feeding her or not,even though he bottle feeds his other sister (at his dads house)...to him breast feeding is just the done thing and he has always asked questions as to why his step mum bottle feeds,it doesn't make a lot of sense to him.

If breast feeding is looked at as so natural then why would anyone be upset about missing out on feeding a baby in another way? Is it because it is so common that it has become the norm to children and they want to be "little mummies and daddies" and have a piece of the action??

Whether a baby is cuddled with a bottle in its mouth or nothing in it's mouth...what's the difference??? Why can't dads and siblings cuddle the baby ? Why is the "act" of "feeding" so important to them and to the bonding process between them? I know for one my husband and son are very well bonded with their daughter/sister and she has never laid eyes on a bottle.

I don't know that i'll ever get it...but milk going into a babys mouth doesn't seem like something that needs to cause jealousy or hurt feelings. Maybe to a child who feels like the baby is a doll or something but if that child knows that breast feeding is normal and doesn't have bottle feeding rammed down their throats everywhere they look they wouldn't even know the difference would they?

Please enlighten me !!!!!

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Aleks - posted on 05/25/2012

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The reason I get to choose, if dad gets to bottle feed, is because it is my bodily fluid that *I* need to pump! *I* have take the time, effort, sometimes pain, and frequently for very little milk, indeed. I would also have to own/purchase a pump - added extra cost.

Yes, you could go for formula.. but, why would I want to waste $26 for a can that would either/and:

- get thrown out with it barely used; or

- sabotage the breastfeeding relationship because of fear of wastage.

- I would be the one most likely who has to prepare the bottles and then clean those suckers up after the fact...lol

[deleted account]

Me me, as the original poster and without reading every post i'd just like to clarify how things are in my family. You say i obviously have no idea about how feeding might be important to others in my family so want to talk about that for a sec...

I am very sensitive to the fact that my husband and son want and need to bond with the baby (and they have)...however,in our family we breast feed!!! They are both aware that breast feeding involves ME feeding my daughter. Bottles are not used for more reasons than i care to count. My son really has no idea that it's even possible to give his sister a bottle...as far as he is concerned she only breast feeds...end of story. Anything else,to him is a ridiculous concept...and that's how i like it !!! ...I feel NO need to make it known that there are other ways to feed her milk because i don't believe in it....just the same as i have no need to tell him there are other Gods when we are Catholic !!!!! He does not feel left out because other people have other Religions or other ways of living. Everyone is different....WE breast feed and it is not a reason for him to feel like he is not included.

My husband is aware of the risks of bottle feeding (with formula) especially as we have allergies in the family. He is also aware of nipple confusion and the pain and hassle caused by pumping. (which as i said before,i did every feed for 3 months)He has not expressed an interest in bottle feeding our daughter...personally i believe (actaully i know) that he is repulsed by bottles and where there is no need for one....it will not so much as touch our babys lips. There will not be a need for one as she is 14 months now anyway.

He and i have an awesome relationship and he knows he can tell me anything,including any feelings he may have about being left out. He does NOT feel this and never has. We are extremely happy that we were able to continue breast feeding this long and hopefully till Hollie is at least 2. I got through all the tough stuff partly because of his help during the night and his devotion to his family....and partly due to my stubborn personality and my never give up attitude. We are so very proud of ourselves and the LAST thing my husband is feeling is left out....he feels...and should feel...like a fabulous dad who has done nothing but the best for our baby and our family as a whole. Anything you say to the contrary is bullshit and i have no time for it,nor do i give a shit cause it's utter crap.

Maybe the reason you feel the need to ram your opinion down other peoples throats is because YOU...I repeat YOU....have a bad relationship and need to make excuses for it. You have said this to me in other threads( that i must be feeling gulity or jealous of others because i EBF) so maybe you are the same ??? Something to consider !!!

Karla - posted on 05/25/2012

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Meme ”Is this a debate or not? If you expect everyone to agree with you, then post it somewhere else.”



This is a debate, but it doesn’t have to be a battle – meaning you don’t have to get so personal and judge others’ actions as “selfish” just because they are different than your opinion. Say what you want, and have your own opinion, but stop judging simple life choices as wrong and selfish.



We all know that some mothers and fathers do selfish things, but not sharing feeding when breastfeeding has been chosen is not a selfish act.



Meme ”I said I think it is selfish to not give the father or siblings the opportunity to be a part of that bonding process, too.”



And Janice says ” The family member gets to feel special and the baby either could care less or is annoyed to be sucking on a plastic nipple rather than flesh. I think it is the family members who may be selfish not the mother.”



Both opinions are very strong and judgmental, hence my “do what works for your family.”



Many people talk about the problem of moms judging other moms, I’m just trying to offer a way to debate these things without stepping on toes.



Meme ” I don't know how many times I have heard, that you will bond more breastfeeding than bottle feeding. So, tell me what does that mean, if there are sooo many other ways to get the exact same bond.”



Do you see the flaws in this argument?

1) If one believes breastfeeding offers the best way to bond, then bottle feeding is still not breasfeeding, therefore it still isn’t offering the best way.

2) There really are hormones that are released while breastfeeding that help with bonding. (Not to say bottle feeding mothers don’t bond, just stating a fact about breastfeeding.)

3) Besides that, when a mother cannot breastfeed she is counseled to hold her baby in such a way that it simulates breastfeeding and a better bonding experience.

4) I never said it’s the exact same bonding; I asked you if YOU are going to start measuring what form of nurturing makes better bonding IMO it’s a pointless thing to do. I really don’t think my husband felt “more bonded” to my oldest daughter, who he gave a bottle to on occasion, than our other children or vise-a-versa. Point being bottle feeding is not necessary.



Meme, ” I still fail to see why it is a mother's choice to refuse the father to be a part of the feeding”



Can you site where anyone said that, because I totally missed that one.



I just read this too ” Also, I did not mean the mother IS selfish, I mean she is protraying a selfish act toward the father and/or siblings.”



Um okay. So you are saying breastfeeding moms are not selfish but just behaving selfishly by exclusively breastfeeding without use of pump or bottles. IMO Meme, you’re still wrong and here’s why:



It’s a family’s choice – that’s my stand on this debate. Most people here have said their baby’s dad gave an occasional bottle. No one here (that I have seen) said they would absolutely refuse such a request. Quite frankly even if they did that is between them and their partner and it absolutely does not indicate selfishness. Only they know why they would make that decision, many of the very logical reasons have already been outlined in this thread.



Meme, though it’s good to know the opinion of someone who feels that it is important for others to feed her baby, I think the biggest problem I have with your opinion is that you call those who do not follow your ideal as “selfish” (or now “portraying a selfish act.”) And that’s simply not true, and actually quite rude.

Merry - posted on 05/26/2012

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A real summary.
If you breastfeed yourbaby you should be kind and sensitive to dads needs and if he feels left outyou should find a way to help him feel involved. Be it bathing, changing, pumping for bottles or whatever.
Be nice to your spouse and keep the baby's needs first.

As for siblings, play it by ear and be kind and gentle in your decisions. Encourage them tobond with their sibling in a way you deem safe appropriate and helpful. Be it bottle feeding, putting in the pacifier, playing peek a boo, or singing to the baby.

Esentially. Be kind to your family.

Jodi - posted on 05/25/2012

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Actually, MeMe, nipple confusion does very much exist beyond a 4 week old. I can testify to that. My son had to start drinking from a bottle at 6 weeks because I had to go to work, and he started rejecting the breast. I struggled to pump enough milk (we all know that you don't usually pump nearly as much as you can feed them when you breastfeed), had to supplement with formula, and it went downhill from there. Pumping can really fuck with your supply. It's a fact. Nipple confusion is also a fact. Maybe not a fact for EVERY child, but it is common. It's also much easier for a baby to drink from a bottle, which is why they often reject the breast or fidget, if they are frequently bottle fed.

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Oksana - posted on 05/30/2015

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Jodi - posted on 06/13/2012

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".the particular bonding of BF..their are tons of articles in this subject.......yes it is a very important form of bonding....for very good psychological,and medical reasons....."

Actually, there have been many studies done on infant attachment, and there is absolutely no real evidence that breastfeeding has anything to do with the bonding to the parent and whether or not that infant has a secure or insecure attachment. That's a psychological fact. I can dig up the research if you want, but I really don't have that sort of time to spend on here at this moment.

[deleted account]

I don't necessarily agree with that. For example...i know FOR A FACT that i would be completely devastated if i couldn't breast feed. I don't need to not be able to breast feed to know how i would feel about it.

I know for a fact and my husband also knows that he would not be more bonded with our daughter if he had bottle fed her. He doesn't need to think about it at all to know that she is getting the best of everything and that him feeding her would make zero difference to their bond.

Sometimes you just know things without experiencing it first hand.
I knew i would be gutted if i needed a c-section....i knew it before it happened and experiencing it just confirmed what i already knew. I also knew that it WOULD NOT affect my bond with her and i feel exactly the same as i do about my son who was born naturally.

So i really do believe that there are lots of things we know without experiencing. Jeanettes husband probably did know how he would have felt. If you know your child is getting the best food and you are very pro breast feeding then it is doubtful that there would ever be any feelings of missing out AT ALL...only feelings of accomplishment and pride. I think the sense of pride both parents have when they have successfully breast fed overrides any feeling their may have been about desiring to bottle feed. I think it may be different if you are bottle feeding to begin with....then dad may feel he missed out a bit.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/12/2012

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Doubt after the fact, isn't factual. It is an after-thought, one that you are unsure of....who knows how he would have felt if he had never ever been given the chance to feed. Since he did get the chance, he really does not know how he would have felt without.

Momof1 - posted on 06/11/2012

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My husband never felt left out (then again he fed him a bottle with my BM on weekends, because I worked.) It was just easier for me to roll out of bed to feed then to make a bottle. Same with going out places. My husband did plenty of things, including holding him to sleep (then they both slept) and bathing him. He also did most of the diaper changing (in the beginning.) I know he did not feel left out. I wouldn't worry about sibling's feeling left out while feeding the baby, like you stated, they can just hold the baby so they can bond. I'm not really close with my family, except my sister, and she never cared about not being able to feed him. So I don't really know why people would think or feel "left out" because they could not feed the baby. That always seemed strange to me, also.



Edited to add:



I asked my husband if he would have felt left out if he never bottle fed our son. He said that he liked feeding our son, because he got to hold him and how our son was nice and calm. But he also understands that getting the BM "straight off tap" is the best way and I doubt he would have asked to feed him if I never went back to work. Had I not gone back to work, I doubt I would have bought a pump/bottles... It was just easier for me to roll out of bed to feed him, then it would have been to prepare a bottle. And we never took a bottle out when we went in public either.

Laura - posted on 06/08/2012

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hi,first read the post..Breastfeeding older children,I am a naturopath,and lactation consultant..

.the particular bonding of BF..their are tons of articles in this subject.......yes it is a very important form of bonding....for very good psychological,and medical reasons.....but you are right,it is NOT the ONLY form of bonding....as far as not having bf your oldest at his beginning,that is milk under the bridge ,and if your hubby or son feels let out ,then just work that out with them.I am sure you can easily come to a satisfying conclusion, and resolution,so that they do not feel refused

Aleks - posted on 06/03/2012

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Funny that, my #1 born didn't need to be burped either, but my baby #2 did. Lucky I found this out quite early (1st night in the hospital I think...lol)

[deleted account]

My daughter is 14 months and i still hold her upright after every feed and burp her as well. She doesn't always burp but i still feel like i should pat her back for a while anyway...plus it means i get extra cuddles !!! She had severe reflux for 12 months so i guess i'm just still in the habit.

Stifler's - posted on 06/03/2012

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My kids were both like Fierna horrors and needed to be burped that's why I can't fathom propping the bottle. Once they got over that they wanted milk and wanted to hold the bottle i just let them but was always there to help them put it back in their mouth. it was by like 9 months that they started holding it properly.

Merry - posted on 06/03/2012

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I never burped Eric much either, he didn't need it!
Fierna omg the girl needed to burp like 5 burps after every feed or else she was screaming.
I saw this baby yesterday that was tiny, like a month old and it was in a stroller facing outwards with a bottle propped in its mouth!
I was shocked especially cuz there was a mom and dad and two friends there walking too, I mean someone could have fed the baby right!
Then we walked past them again later and the dad was holding the baby burping it. I mean if you're going to burp it after why not just feed while walking? Idk. I just felt it was a bad impression. Made the mom look like she couldn't care less about the baby and looked very unsafe and careless.
If the baby can hold the bottle I feel less strongly against not holding them while they eat, but oersonally would never let them feed themselves the bottle.

Stifler's - posted on 06/03/2012

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When Logan was a baby we just sat him in the swing and rocked it while we ate then I fed him and put him down. Or I fed them first then ate (kept the food in the oven until I was ready). i never propped a bottle I can't understand propping it when you're supposed to burp them half way through until at least 6 months.

Janice - posted on 06/01/2012

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But, if you took an equal number of breastfeeding and bottlefeeding mothers and looked at the bond they had with their children, those few women who don't regularly hold their babies to bottle feed them could skew the statistics to make it look like breastfeeding creates a better bond. That was my exact point Becky :)



Oh Sherri, that must be frustrating for you! Typically I eat with one hand and breastfeed using my other arm. My hubby will cut up what I need. Actually now my son is eating solids1x a day and it is at dinner because he LOVES eating with us as a family. So my food is often cold before I finish because If I take too much time eating he screams at me LOL But the other day he wanted to BF while I was cooking a meal my hubby can't handle ;) and so he was screaming when I tried to feed him his sweet potatoes. I actually had to go sit on the couch and nurse him bit just so he was calm enough for solids. I was quite annoyed that my food was getting cold, when its one of my fave meals. I can't imagine having to that on a regular basis.



I have learned that I can breastfeed in my Ktan carrier if I dont put it all the way on. It still supports my son enough so that I can have 1 hand free to keep pushing the grocery cart or pick up stuff if needed but I am not completely hands free and I avoid doing that if possible. I have also used the bathroom while breastfeeding but i avoid that too!



I am a fan of sippy cups and as soon as my daughter started snacking around 9 months - she got a sippy cup of water and a snack while we were out and we would just breastfeed later but I also tried to only go out around her schedule too.



ANYWAYS... we are sooooooo off topic :)

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 06/01/2012

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It is a sad reality but I do agree with most here, in regards to how often bottle fed babies (3-6months) are propped and left to drink their bottle on their own. I am sorry and mean no offense but I just do NOT like it when I see it and I do see it all too often. It makes me want to go and pick the darling up and cuddle them until they are done. However, I do not like it when a breast feeder insinuates they WILL have a better bond with their baby, since it simply is not always true. My bond with my son is just as strong, if not better than some breastfed babies. Just because you breastfeed does not mean you are paying attention to the baby, either. You could have your focus on something completely different the entire time, which is not much of a bonding experience either.



I always took the time to stop, take a break and feed my son his bottle. ALWAYS. I don't know, for me it was not only my chance to hold him, hug him, cuddle him and kiss the bejesus out of him, it was also a damn good reason for me to just take a break and no one could say anything. My son was fed on a schedule from 3 months on (same time he had to start formula), so he knew when it was time to eat. Even at 12-18 months, since he knew it was time for a baba, he was completely content to be cuddled and drink his bottle with Momma (occasionally, rarely really, Daddy - sissy stopped showing interest early on). By the time he was 12 months, he could scoff down an 8oz bottle of milk in 5mins. So, it wasn't any time at all and really, I absolutely enjoyed it. At 12 months he was only getting 4 bottles a day, a 4oz on wake, 4 oz before nap, an 8oz at afternoon snack and an 8 oz at bed. Really, it took no time at all. Besides, I want to spend as much time as I can with him, he is growing soooo fast (too fast). :(



Right now, I am the happiest person in the world to have my boy. He is just so sweet and he still smells and feels so new. He smells much better than my 14 year old! LOL I am doing my best to enjoy every single aspect of him, since I know it will not last long. I regret not having the time to do it with my daughter (or the knowledge to make time), so I would be damned if I won't do it with my boy. ;)



With that said, whatever works for you, is what works for you. This is just my opinion and how I believe it should be done.

Merry - posted on 06/01/2012

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I just nurse the baby at the table and wait to eat til Matt is done, then hand him the baby and eat! Worked well when they were small. Or I'd eat with one hand while nursing. And spill food in their ears lol.
Nursing a 12 month old currently and I gotta say it's the most fun age ever to nurse a baby. She's so happy and smily and she eats fast but gets so relaxed and content and I actually get to snuggle her and she falls asleep at the breast and I can just hold her as she sleeps for a few minutes before putting her down and it's pure bliss. She nurses about 5xa day and it really never affects my day. I nursed her in my meeting at work yesterday' and while at my inlaws twice, and at at the fire station tour once as well. Breastfeeding an older baby is just my reward for all my hard work in the beginning. This is when I get to sit back, relax and enjoy

Becky - posted on 05/31/2012

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Yeah, I've just learned to do a lot of things one-handed while I'm feeding the baby! I can even go to the bathroom and nurse! (not that I do that unless I"m really desperate and I'm at home! :) I haven't yet mastered nursing in a carrier though, so I do have to stop to do it when we're out shoping, which can be a bit of a pain. I really need to get that down.

Stifler's - posted on 05/31/2012

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Damo used to cut my food up small for me so I could eat while feeding renae with one hand

Aleks - posted on 05/31/2012

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:-( @ Sherri and her dinner

I had the same happen to me, early on with my #1. Then I requested my man to start feeding me, so I sat at the dinner table with the baby, feeding him/her and then my fiance would feed me while I fed the baby (he would scoff his dinner in 2mins flat, cause he is a bit of a porky pig...lol) and then proceed to feed me ♥

Aleks - posted on 05/31/2012

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I don't know Stifler's Mum, I can only report on what I have seen. Thats all. Since I did not bottle feed with either of my kids I have no comparable experience.

So the things I have seen is: a few did prop at such ages, whether the baby is able to complete the bottle on his/her own or not I cannot tell. Frequently I noticed bottle feeding mums handing babies over for others to feed. Very frequently, at shopping centers, I see numerous babies of all ages sucking on bottles held by themselves or propped! Infact, I see these scenarios more often than I see parents/grandparents hold baby and bottle feeding. So, I can only base my "opinions" on what I have observed in my immediate surroundings.

Stifler's - posted on 05/31/2012

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If I'd propped a bottle they wouldn't have drank it maybe I had weird difficult kids

Aleks - posted on 05/31/2012

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I have seen a number of mums propping bottles on 3-4mth old babies.
I see a baby in a pram in the shopping center (the mall for all you Americans) facing out to the world being pushed by parents who just cannot stop for a moment shopping or gobbing down their own food in the food court, sucking on a bottle they are barely able to hold.
Those 3-4mth old babies and even those 6mth old babies in a breastfeeding family typically stop for those few minutes, be it 5-20minutes out of that busy schedule and calm down, feed the baby by holding and typically relaxing themselves in the process. Focus on baby-mum time. Even just a form of "re-grouping" as a family, is a HUGE thing and am sure those 20minutes for such a small baby whose concept of time can be so skewed means a whole lot.

But may be that is just me and how I see and think things....

Becky - posted on 05/31/2012

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Well, but a mom who was in a mental state where she never wanted to hold her baby might not be so concerned about them choking and dying. Just saying. I wasn't in any way saying that was typical bottle-feeding behavior. But, if you took an equal number of breastfeeding and bottlefeeding mothers and looked at the bond they had with their children, those few women who don't regularly hold their babies to bottle feed them could skew the statistics to make it look like breastfeeding creates a better bond., when the reality would be that if 2 mothers behaved in the exact same way in every way regarding feeding and infant-care, except that one fed from the breast and one from the bottle, there would likely be no difference in those 2 mothers' bonds with their children.

Aleks - posted on 05/31/2012

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Sherri,
While I understand where you are coming from, there is one thing you fail to realise. Its the fact that the older the baby gets the quicker they feed. So a 10mth old will typically be done in 5-10minutes (and that is typically a really good full feed) sometimes if they are in the throws of crawling, cruzing around furniture or making attempts at walking, that time will be even shorter still! As you know its hard to pin down a mobile baby ;-) Not to mention that a 10mth old will may be feed 5 times a day (sometime less, sometimes more... all dependent on the individual baby, of course)
While a 12mth old may even not wish to feed at all, but only before sleeps and upon wake up in the morning. Even less if they are really feeding well with solids. Not to metion a typical feeding session with a 12mth old is probably no more than 5minutes (may be longer if they are falling asleep, but if not, then yeah.. rare if they go for longer than 5minutes).

So I wouldn't fear about being "trapped" and "stuck" to the couch, not with an older baby. You are projecting the behaviour of a 4-6mth old baby's schedules and feeding habbits on a 12mth old, which is kind of futile and kind of incorrect. Its akin to predicting the nappy changing of a 4mth old to a 12mth old. We know that the older the baby gets the less times you will need to change their nappy, right? Well same goes for feeding them milk. Kind of like with formula too. you feed them less often with the bottle as they get older, right? See....?

Stifler's - posted on 05/31/2012

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Sure if you wanted your baby to choke and die. Propping is for when they are older when they're a newborn who is going to come over and feed my baby who fed every hour/2 hours on the bottle? My husband was at work and my family doesn't live in our house. People also have the misconception that bottle fed babies feed every 4 hours, they don't.

Becky - posted on 05/31/2012

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I agree with the above comments on the bond. I don't think it's that breastfeeding creates a better bond, but a breastfeeding mother is forced to hold her baby to feed him or her, thus, allowing bonding time. A bottle-feeding mom, could, if she chose, get by with never holding her baby, by propping the bottle, always passing him off to someone else to feed, etc. Not saying most bottle-feeding moms would do this, I know most wouldn't, but they could, if they were so inclined.

Aleks - posted on 05/31/2012

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But you see ladies, thats just it, a breastfeeding mother, if she is still breastfeeding this baby at 6,7,8,10,11,12 months still HAS to hold said child a few times a day for say 10minutes at a time. Whereas a bottlefed baby may not get that, or if they do it has to be a time specifically set aside by mum to do so. Somehow, me thinks this does not happen as regularly.

Hence, given what Lauras comments mentioned (which I also believe in strongly) breastfed babeis or breastfeeding mothers, *typically* have greater *opportunity* for increased bonding. Which *CAN* potentially lead to stronger bond between mum and baby.

Stifler's - posted on 05/31/2012

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Mine just drank their bottle. By 10 months logan just had a nuby cup and by 1 renae just has cheapo take and toss cups of milk. I never propped the bottle but once they could do it themself i wasn't going to stop them.

Merry - posted on 05/31/2012

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I think I'd always insist on me holding the bottles just cuz I'd want to kep the bottle feelings to a minimum time. Like I'd not want them to walk around drinking their bottle for an hour.
I'm sure your kids had plenty of bonding time Sherri, and by a certain age babies sometimes refuse to be snuggled anyways unless tired lol.
I mean Fierna right now will not allow me to touch her while she nurses. She pushes my hand off her if I rest it on her chest etc. it's so silly but hey, she likes her personal space I guess. I remember Eric doing this too around this age.
Anyways. Mostly IMO it's the 0-6mo age that really should be held while eating. Once their mobile and whatnot it's still ideal I think but if you feel it's fine for your specific child I'm not one to judge.
Now letting them run around with a bottle full of 8oz of red juice.....I'll admit I judge lol

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/31/2012

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Janice---This is very true and sad for those poor babies that do not get held. Truthfully, when I see it, it makes me upset. I don't say anything, since I can't be bothered but, the sad truth is, some bottle fed babies are just propped up and left to drink all on their own. Makes me sad.

That was one thing I made sure of with my son, when I did have to go to a bottle. He was held and cuddled every single time. He never ever once walked around, sat or lied down on his own with a bottle (never ever went to bed with one - I am against any of this). It was and is important to me, that a baby is cuddled and held as much as possible, especially when being fed. Truthfully, I still rock my boy to sleep (no more bottles, now), then put him in his crib. He loves it (if he wakes, though, he is own his own but he very rarely does). Yep, he is 19 months old but he is my boy and he just may be my last. :(

Janice - posted on 05/31/2012

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This is my 2 cents on the bonding thing
If you breastfeed you must hold your baby and therefore will bond because you are holding them. Most people also hold their baby while bottle feeding and are there for bonding then too. However, some people choose to prop up a baby's bottle and walk away, and therefore no bonding takes place during that time.
So studies show that babies who are breastfed are more bonded because unfortunately there are a percentage (hopefully a small one) of bottle feeders who do not hold their baby during that time.

Merry - posted on 05/31/2012

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Hehe yes Jen very true. And while I'm about as pro bf as I can get I've always thought the special bond thing was a crock.
As I've said before, I really think time equals bond. Breastfeeding usually makes it more necessary that mom spend more time one on one with baby so this could help bonding more but the same can be done through close contact while bottle feeding or rocking or whatever.
The more that baby is in your arms the better your bond IMO.

Jen - posted on 05/31/2012

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I have not read all 15 pages of replies to this, but I find this extremely ironic...

So often we hear from those who are pro breast feeding that one of the ways breastfeeding is super fantabulous wonderful is that it's a great way for Mom and baby to bond...
Yet when a point is made that if Dad or Grandma or anyone else wants to bond while bottle-feeding the baby, half a dozen moms retort that there are plenty of other things they can do with the baby to bond.

:rolleyes:

[deleted account]

my son has had to go to his dads on a fairly regular basis since he was about 2. I used to hate it but over the years have gotten used to it. It has only ever been for 1 or 2 nights maximum.

His dad on several occasions asked for a week or more but thankfully changed his mind every time until last year.

I got married when my son was 9 and we didn't have a honeymoon. We contemplated having one and taking him and my husbands son with us (more of a family holiday) but it was May so didn't want them taken out of school so we just had the wedding night in the hotel and my inlaws took both boys back to our house and stayed with them till we returned the next morning....helicopter parent you may ask???? Hell yes !!!

He has had a week with his dad since our wedding in 2010, i disliked it but i got through...made easier by the distraction of having a new baby in the house. I am finally able to let go of my baby boy...just a little.

Stifler's - posted on 05/29/2012

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I find it absurd that anyone would volunteer to have a newborn stay in their care for no reason. My parents had Logan for a weeek while we went on our honeymoon at 8 months. Before that he'd only been to michelles over night and Damo's mums once and he was at least 7 months by then. My newborn going to my mums/damo's mums over night? Why?

Becky - posted on 05/29/2012

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I can't remember the exact ages my boys were when they did their first sleep-overs with their grandparents, but I know they were over a year. My oldest was over a year before we even left him with his grandparents to be babysat! That was a mistake, it was very hard on him the first few times, even though he loved his grandma and grandpa. Because they are breast-fed, I wait until they are sleeping through the night, or at least only waking once to eat for sleepovers. Partly because I don't think it's fair to my parents to have to get up with them all night, and partly because I don't want to be waking up uncomfortable and leaky in the middle of the night and have to get up and pump! That puts a bit of a damper on a romantic getaway! :)
We're supposed to be going on a couple's weekend in late September, and I'm debating whether to leave my youngest, who will be 7 1/2 months, or bring him along. I would trust my parents with him, no problem, but we'll be 3 hours away, for 2 nights, and that's a long way to drive back in the middle of the night if he's having a horrible time! I might try to get them to come out and camp there, and they could have him during the day and he could be with us at night, and I could still breastfeed. The older 2 I have no worries about, they have had several sleepovers at Grandma and Grandpa's, and my 4 year old has even gone camping with them, and they love it. They'll do just fine.

Merry - posted on 05/29/2012

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Krista, that is how we first left Eric alone with grandma, she came here and watched him at our house. It was very nice. Ive said before in this debate that I was quite old before I was sleeping over anywhere and even then it wasn't at grandparents house. It was at my best friends house.
My grandparents all lived over an hour away and were not really involved with us. So I couldn't imagine spending the night with a grandparent. So to me, I'm just getting used to the concept of wonderfull and involved grandparents! My grandparents were these half way intimidating older people who I was supposed to hug and talk tout I always felt awkward around.
So, I don't think I'd want Eric spending the night until all our kids could spend the night. I don't think it would really be worth it to send one kid and keep the other.

Celeste - posted on 05/29/2012

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I'd LOVE for my mom to take all 3 kids. She's had my 9 year old daughter spend the night but has yet to take my twin boys, who are 5. She can't because she has a small car, there's no room, etc etc because my brother and sister were living there. I get that she has her own life, but holy hell, it's not like I ask her all the time. But it'd be nice if she'd take some interest in her grandkids..

Anyway, I digress LOL

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/29/2012

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Here too Krista. My in-laws have came and spent the night, so far only once. It was after our wedding and we had a hotel room. I have no issue leaving my son for the night with them, if it is in our home. He is just so use to his crib (has never slept in anything else) and all of his toys are at home. They did enjoy it, for sure. However, they do yern for him to spend the night at their place. I am just not comfortable with it, yet. As I mentioned it is no where near baby proofed and they have two evil cats. One of the cats actually attacked me while I was breastfeeding my son, a while back. The cat did NOT like him, perhaps due to the new smell or the crying. Now, i am terrified the cat will attack him, they do have claws. LOL

Now, as for my daughter. I never left her over night with my mother until she was 2.5 years old. We did live with her for a year when my daughter and I moved out here (she was 15 months). So, they did become very close. Once my son is in a "real" bed and no longer puts random things in his mouth and can go up and down stairs on his own, perhaps I will feel more comfortable. We'll see. ;)

I do agree, it all depends on the family and their comfort level.

Krista - posted on 05/29/2012

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I think the sleepover thing is something where families really DO have to do what feels right for them.

My in-laws live next door and my son is very close to them. When he was three months old, we went away for a night, and my in-laws stayed at our house to watch our son. It works better for them to stay at our place, because my son then has his own bed, and access to all of his toys, and it was definitely more babyproofed. (Laura, this may be a good compromise for you, if you're worried about your son sleeping in a different house...)

We've left him with them overnight probably about 5-6 times during his not-quite-3 years of life. It hasn't hurt him any. They all enjoy the "sleepover".

And it's a nice getaway for my husband and I, where we can reconnect as a couple. Like Aleksandra says, of course I miss him while we're gone, and we talk about him, but it is still very nice to have that time when it's just us as a couple again, going out for dinner, maybe catching a concert or a movie, sleeping in a hotel room (and being able to sleep in past 6am!), and having breakfast without the din of cartoons in the background. It really is pretty rejuvenating, so for those of you who have never had an overnight without your kids, I would recommend trying it at least once -- you may surprise yourself!

Aleks - posted on 05/28/2012

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The staying over at grandparents for the night is dependent on what type of culture you have grown up *I think*.

The recent trend especially in anglo-saxon/western parents is to want to, bah, believe its their 100% *responsibility* to raise their child on their own and how *they* see fit. For some reason, the current belief is *you chose to, your made it so now YOU are only expected to look after it* if not then you are seen as being *LAZY*. Personally, I believe this stems from the belief that people feel "bothered" when you need to go out of your own way because someone needs help, so therefore the awkwardness in asking or demanding actual hands-on support from others in any aspect of life (which in my books leads to the isolation most of us seem to feel these days)

From a historical and anthropological point of view this is NOT NATURAL nor normal for human beings - actually, humans are probably the only primate that is geared towards this (being able to bond and favouably respond to other carers), as recent anthropological theories now assume. Sure, biological parents do the *majority* of the raising and looking after ones children, however, historically and in many different cultures (up until recently at least) up to 50% of the child rearing was done by others (be it grandparents, uncles, aunties or older siblings). Remember the saying: "It takes a village to raise a child"? True, newborns and young infants probably need their mother (from a biological point of view) a lot more than an older baby/toddler does. Therefore, excluding this early phase, there is no real reason (appart from one's own beliefs) why a young child/toddler shouldn't stay the night or be around other relatives for larger portions of time than is currently fashionable.



As for me personally, I have left my (1st born) 3mth old with my parents for the night when we went away for a wedding, and then we did it again when he was around 4-5mths old. No biggie to me. Did I miss him? Of course. Couldn't have a conversation without talking about him. I also frequently though about him as well.

After that, I was happy to occasionally leave him for a sleepover at my mum's house once he was weaned completely. So he has had a few sleepovers at his grandparents house. He has never slept over his other grandparents house (ie, my in-laws), even though they live a whole lot closer to us ( a 15minute drive as opposed to a 50-60min one, one way). They are a bit older and they have never suggested (I would say as to even mentioned that they definitively were not up to it, nor do I believe they ever had their older grandkids ever sleep over either!!!). They have, however, looked after both kids in the evening when we had to go out without the kids - ie, they have done some evening babysitting...lol

My younger daughter has never had a sleep over at the grandparents on her own (ie, without me there) as she has not weaned yet.... so, my parents are a bit apprehensive taking her for the night not knowing how she may react waking up in the middle of the night asking for boobie and not having it around (personally, I think she is old enough to be fine, but we don't reall know).

Anyway, the difference is this. My in-laws are pure breed anglo-aussies (English, Scotish and Irish with not a hint of anything else). I am eastern european and have been brought up by not only my parents but also by my grandmother, in support of my other grandma, together in support of my aunites and my uncles. It also helps that my grandparents grew up in an era (unfortunatelly for them) where you HAD to help out family and friends/neighbours. If you didn't, you wouldn't survive, or they wouldn't :-( Sadly, now that eastern Europe is "westernising", and the old generation of my grandparents are now starting to quickly thin, the sad isolating culture is now quickly starting to permeate there too :-(

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/28/2012

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Even as my son had to have formula, I still was not handing him over. Now, he is on milk and he is still not going anywhere. LOL



ETA:

He does go to Daycare and has since 10months. Although, for me that is different. I truly believe in Daycare and it is during the day. I want him at home for bedtime. ;)

Janice - posted on 05/28/2012

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I truly find it bizarre that any parent would desire to be away from their newborn for more than a few hours.
Now I get that parents need to work and one of them will most likely be gone for 9 hours a day. However, I would like to assume they would rather be home with their baby.

I mean really doesn't every mom remember the first time Dad or a grandparent offered to watch the baby for a bit just so you could go to the store alone. You get excited because this baby needs you non-stop, but once you get to the store you rush because all you can think about is your little baby. Okay maybe that is just me, IDK.

I suppose if you are formula feeding and the caregivers are the same ones (always the same grandparent(s)) then it probably isn't harmful. But personally I want the bond my parents have with my kids to be different than the one they have with my hubby and me. I want my kids to bond with their grandparents as grandparents not an additional pair of parents.

MeMe - Raises Her Hand (-_-) (Mommy Of A Toddler And Teen) - posted on 05/28/2012

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Kel80---Is it selfish to leave a little baby with other people,family or otherwise?



If you ask my inlaws, they would probably say it is selfish, to NOT let them stay over night. However, this is one that I will not do. My son is 19 months and he is no where near ready (or maybe I am not) to sleep over anywhere. He is to be home with us and that is just how it is, for now. I have a specific schedule for him and I am a very routine orientated person. I also know, that nobody elses home, in my family network, is baby proofed. So forget it. He will be close to 3 before he is sleeping away from home, my mind is made up, that he must be in a "real" bed, first. My husband does not like it. This is something that we have discussed (as most things, we do). My reasoning is, we decided to have our boy and therefore it is our responsibility to be home for him each night. I cannot think of anything we would go and do, that we can't do now anyhow. For some parents it works fine to leave them overnight, just not for this one. ;)



My inlaws inturn, come to our home. We go out for supper and the movies and they tend to our son by feeding him his supper, bathing him and putting him to bed. I leave a list of what is to be done when and they follow it very kindly.

[deleted account]

My friend let her baby have weekends at the inlaws at 2 weeks old. I find it ridiculous and lazy mothering but it is not my business so i shut up about it.

Its far from necessary but im sure she would say that its great that the baby bonds with its grandparents....and that it is good for her and her husbands relationship and overall wellbeing.

I suppose there is good and bad in it. Some may say i am jealous because i have no one to leave my baby with,some may say i am too clingy with my baby because she is 14 months,still breast fed and i refuse to leave her with anyone...

Is it selfish to leave a little baby with other people,family or otherwise?

Is it good for the baby,bad for the baby,or does it make no difference?

Is it normal for a newborn to bond with other people just as much as to its mother? because if it is bottle fed and left overnight fairly often...isn't that likely to happen?

I personally think its unnatural and not a good thing. I think there should be a huge difference between the bond between a baby and its parents and a baby and other family members.

As for leaving older kids with family. I had to leave my son because i am not with his father.

I don't like the idea of other people calling the shots when it comes to my child. I prefer to discipline my own child and not have anyone else have to do it...it kind of goes along with the territory when you accept help from others so i prefer visits while i am present and in small doses...it's just easier that way.

Janice - posted on 05/28/2012

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I was the one who mentioned the sleep over thing and I was really referring to babies. I know of families who start nagging about taking babies for sleep overs before they are even 6 months. That is just crazy to me. My daughter is 2.5 and I would definitely let her sleep at my MIL's overnight if either desired to. Granted we rent from her and she lives upstairs ;) But even when we buy our own home and she lives farther away I would be fine with it.

The other 3 grandparents do not own their own home and/ or are smokers and so a sleepover just isn't going to happen anytime soon.



My friends daughter is 15 months and her sister who lives 40 minutes away takes her for 2-4 days at a time which they have been doing for about 6 months now. I just cant imagine being away from my babies for 2+days at time before they are at least 3.5/ 4 years old. Who ever had the kids would be annoyed because I would be calling every 2-3 hours LOL

Merry - posted on 05/28/2012

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When he asks we will reevaluate. :-) though I didn't sleep over anywhere til I was 13ish I don't know when Eric will. It's tough to say!
Since we live so close anyways I guess I don't see the big deal in him leaping over anyways. The grandparents are usually more then exhausted after he's over for a day, so I don't see why they'd want to keep him longer lol. I'd need to know he'd fall asleep easily for them, sleep alone and happily all night, and not want to come home in the night. So we will see as he grows.

Lady Heather - posted on 05/28/2012

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My older daughter is most bonded with my mum and her husband (out of three sets of grandparents). They live almost all the way across the country and we see them once or twice a year. So I don't think bottles and sleepovers are necessary for bonding with grandparents. We connect on Skype when not together and we make the most of our time when we are together.

Krista - posted on 05/28/2012

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It's late in the game, but I'll weigh in to the debate.

I think that MeMe does have a point when she says that it is nice of the mother to at least TALK to the father about whether or not he feels left out of feedings. It could be that he doesn't mind in the least. It could be that he DOES feel left out, and perhaps there is a way to involve him a bit more, even if he just winds up sitting with mom and baby sometimes while nursing is taking place.

That being said, I think it is a really nice experience for Daddy and siblings and grandparents to feed the baby. There's just something about nourishing a baby that feels so lovely. It IS different from just cuddling them. But is it necessary for bonding? No, it's not. It's just a really nice bonus.

Merry - posted on 05/28/2012

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My kids have never had sleepovers with their grandparents. They're very bonded to them!
Grandparents also never ever fed them a bottle.
Both my kids love nana and bubba absolute best besides me and Matt right alongside my sister.
There's no lack of bond for real!
We just as a family feel that at night we want our kids in our house. The grandparents have asked a few times and they do want to kee Eric overnight but I do not see the need. He goes to their house at least once a week and we stay there and he plays with them, they come over here, we see eachother at church, I mean there's no lack of time spent with them! Its just I'm there too!
So I don't think they need alone time with my kids to be able to love them and bond to them and have a strong relationship. It's not like I'm hovering all day, they play and I'll eat in peace or do my laundry etc

And no, they've never asked me to let them feed a bottle. They know I breastfeed and they haven't bothered me about it once :)

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