Breastfeeding Law?

Sara - posted on 08/03/2010 ( 118 moms have responded )

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Gisele Bundchen believes mothers should breastfeed their babies for six months Photo: REX FEATURES
The catwalk star, who lives in the US, risked controversy by saying there should be a law preventing mothers from using formula milk.

The 30-year-old told Harper's Bazaar magazine: ''I think breastfeeding really helped (me keep my figure).

''Some people here (in the US) think they don't have to breastfeed, and I think 'Are you going to give chemical food to your child when they are so little?'

''I think there should be a worldwide law, in my opinion, that mothers should breastfeed their babies for six months.''

Her comments came after TV star Denise Van Outen said she gave up breastfeeding her daughter Betsy after less than a month because she did not want photographers to take pictures.

''I probably should have persevered a bit longer than three weeks,'' she said last month. ''But I can't be sitting in Starbucks and breastfeeding, because they (photographers) are taking pictures.''

Bundchen, the world's highest-paid supermodel, had a natural birth at her home in Boston in December after meditating throughout her eight-hour labour.

Bundchen, who is married to American football star Tom Brady, got up to make pancakes a day after her first child, son Benjamin Rein, was born and was modelling swimwear just six weeks later.

She said meditating every day prepared her for giving birth, telling Harper's Bazaar: ''It prepared me mentally and physically. It's called 'labour' not 'holiday' for a reason, and I knew that.

''You want to go into the most intense physical experience of your life unprepared? That doesn't make any sense to me.

''Then I was ready and I thought OK, let's get to work'. I wasn't expecting someone else to get the baby out of me.''


Thoughts?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Krista - posted on 08/12/2010

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I almost broke down and gave my child formula for the first time last weekend (hes 7 months old now). I actually went to the store and had the product in my hand. THEN I turn over the bottle to look at the ingredients and nutrition information. If I had to give that to my child I would CRY every day!!! There is NOTHING good about it. Not one ingredient in formula in natural or naturally derived. I would drink that shit so why would I give that to my infant? Like I said if for some reasonI had no choice then I would obviously do it but I would literally cry every day! That shit is disgusting!

Gee, thanks. Personally, I'd cry every day if my child was dead from starvation (which would be the case if "that shit" didn't exist), but whatever floats your boat, right.

And people wonder WHY FF mothers say that BF mothers can be judgmental assclowns.

Mary - posted on 08/12/2010

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Karla, my post was really an argument against blaming the medical profession for the decline in unmedicated births. What you have to acknowledge is the outrageous amount of litigation that plagues the practice of obstetrics, and has inevitablly lead to the increase in instumental births. Bottom line, anyone with a less than perfect child seems to feel the need to sue for exhorbitant sums of money...even if that "imperfection" is most likely a result of nature, and not practitioner error. The common legal advice given to OB's?...you're more likely to be sued for NOT doing a C/S, and the earlier, the less liklihood of a lawsuit. Women, and society at large, have only themselves to blame for that.

As I said, women do have the power to control what does or does not happen to them while in labor....IF THEY CHOOSE TO EXERCISE IT. Most do not. It does require accepting a certain amount of responsibility for the outcome; when asked to put their beliefs and desires on the line, they are loathe to do so.

On another note...I will say that the average, college-educated professional arrives in L&D with absolutely no desire for an unmedicated birth. Even if they role through the door 9cms, and are remarkably controlled, and birth is imminent, we cannot persuade them to go without. If for some reason they do, the vast majority of them are NOT pleased, nor or they proud of their accomplishment. They are usually pissed that they had to feel anything at all. I don't get it, but it is their right. As for the whole VBAC thing....I work in a hospital that both supports and encourages them. Most of our population flat out refuses to even consider it. Again, that is their right. Their body, their birth, their decision.

The other factor in all of this is that every body is different. We all require a differnt amount of work and force to push a baby out. Some of us might need to labor 36 hours and push over three, while others labor under 5 hours, and only push twice. That really can have a huge impact on whether or not you remain unmedicated until the bitter end.

And, perhaps not all C/S are tru obstetrical emergencies. A fair number these days are repeats, medically indicated (as in Dana's case) for a variety of reasons such as prior myomectomy, +HSV, malpresentation, etc., or simply failure to progress/descend. Hell, there are even woman whose chose and elective primary section for no good reason other than they do not want to labor. Again, not something I would choose, but totally within their rights.

I just fail to see how you rather superior, judgemental and condescending tone is going to be helpful to anyone, including your "cause".

Mary - posted on 08/12/2010

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Karla, it hasn't just driven OB's to pursue other fields, it has left those remaining to practice defensive medicine.

Your argument seems to be that the onus is on the practicioner (I include midwives in this, since more and more of them are choosing hospital-based practices in the US) to perpetuate this change. What I am suggesting is that women already have the ability to empower themselves by not only self-educating, but also by taking responsibility for what they permit (or refuse) to happen to their body. It really is as simple as saying no to whatever interventions they find objectionable. The catch is, they then have to accept responsibility for that decision. Problem is, we live in a world where it's almost become a necessity to have someone other than ourselves to blame. You exemplify this mentality by placing the trend of increased sections soley on the heads of the physicians, rather than acknowledging that women themselves have played a huge part in this as well.

Yes, the C/S rate has risen alarmingly over past years...but there are a multitude of factors that affect that trend. The use of forceps has drastically fallen out of favor; most residents today are never even taught how to use them. Babies that could have been rotated and pulled are now simply a section for failure to descend. Women are delaying childbirth until well past 30. More women are obese than they were 20+ years ago, and more woman are gaining over 50lbs with their pregnancies. Maternal weight, age, and overall state of health have a huge impact on how well both they, and their fetus, tolerate labor. As well, we are seeing an increased number of women who have had either prior cervical procedures, such as cones for HPV, or uterine procedures, such as myomectomies, that negatively impact their chances for an uncomplicated vaginal birth. There is a little more at play here than your bald statistics suggest. It is not simply the big, bad doctors doing unwarranted surgeries against a woman's will. I don't doubt that this could occur; I just take issue with your implication that this is the sole cause of the rising section rate.

At the end of the day, there will be no huge changes in how the medical community practices until there is a radical change in the letigious society we live in. If women want a change, they will have to start with themselves, and how they approach pregnancy and labor - especially the amount of responsibilty they are willing to take on with regards to the outcome. Women cannot expect to demand that their OB follow all of their demands/wants/needs/expectations, and then sue the hell out of them when Johnny is a little slow in first grade.

Rosie - posted on 08/12/2010

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karla i do tend to get a bit defensive when someone is judging other people for not doing things the way they feel it should be.i do apologize for the snide remark.

i personally have no desire to EVER give birth naturally. i think it's foolish to want to actually. why anybody would want to put themselves through all that pain when the result is the same in the end is beyond me. but i don't go around telling people that they are uneducated, or unprepared or that they are foolish. people can have complete differences of opinion and still understand how the other one can do what they do. thats what i love about coming to COM. i used to judge left and right and completely not understand other peoples parenting techniques-now, while i still wouldn't do what they do, i understand people are different, our children are different, and we all do what we think is best for ourselves and family. ;)

Joanna - posted on 08/03/2010

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I wish some people would just stick to looking pretty, and keep their mouths shut.

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[deleted account]

Karla, that is true - although I have not personally met anybody who was not allowed to have the type of birth they wanted (except for on medical grounds - I actually wanted a 'as natural as possible' water birth but had pre-e and was very poorly so couldn't), but I appreciate that this may be different elsewhere.

I too wish mums would stop spreading horror stories generally they make the event of labour and birth seem horrifyingly scary - I found that witnesses labour helped me to realise that it is not scary and women deal with it very well (I was in hospital for 17 days due to the afore mentioned pre-e), and definately think it made me more aware that people lie about how bad it is. I also think proper preparation is the key to this (for me anyway - I always find that if I know ALL the options/ outcomes I am less anxious and able to relax) however, many people do NOT want to know or are not intelligent enough to find out (there were so many young girls 17-19 who just did not have a clue - they spoke to the midwives about what was going to happen and then asked me what that meant when the midwives left) so ignorance and blindly following the medical advice IS their choice.

That sucks with the doctor not giving you the frenotomy - as tongue ties can sometimes give problems with speech later on in life (although it is rare).

Rosie - posted on 08/13/2010

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erin, you and i both know that our uteruses don't grow a centimeter each week, lol!!! ginormous bellies that we had, hehe!

Ez - posted on 08/12/2010

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Both Mary and Karla have touched on the many factors that contribute to how different bodies labour differently, for varying reasons. This is why the 'one size fits all' medical model of maternal care can be such an obstacle to minimal intervention and natural birth.



It wants our uterus to grow a centimetre a week during pregnancy. It wants our bodies to go into labour on or before our magical due date. It then expects that we will dilate steadily at a centimetre an hour, with a nice short pushing stage (preferably on our backs). If any of things are not achieved, our bodies are deemed to be something other than normal. And so the cascade of interventions start.



We all experience labour differently, but most hospital settings don't allow for this. Mine certainly didn't. The idea that labour is something to be managed, rather than observed is where the problem lies IMO. My labour stalled at 5cm for a couple of hours. I was coping well and remaining active, and yet the doctor still decided that I wasn't progressing properly and pushed for an AROM. I was hesitant, but was told that things might stop altogether if we didn't do something, and then I would be too tired at the end to deliver my baby. I consented, and quickly realised my mistake when within 5 mins I had started vomiting and fainting.

[deleted account]

This woman needs to be slapped. I'm sorry. I happily nursed my son. I'm a strong advocate of breastmilk for infants but this is asinine. There are good legitimate reasons a mother may need to use formula. I wish people would stop demonizing the product.

Stifler's - posted on 08/12/2010

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They talked me out of a pethidine injection and I had to ask for gas and was told to be more "proactive". I had a pretty good natural birth though. 26 hours of labour is never fun regardless of pain relief I guess.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Not necessarily. I've worked understaffed before. That doesn't mean I treat the patients any differently because of it. Regardless, there isn't any excuse for it. No one should have to even raise their voice during labour (unless of course they want to lol) let alone be arguing with staff over what they will or will not do for the mother and infant.

Nikki - posted on 08/12/2010

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Well I guess my son would have starved to death if that was the law, because I never produced an ounce of colostrum or milk ever, no matter what I did and after 3 weeks of absolute hell with lactation specialists making me feel like the worst mother in the world, I FED MY BABY, when they said after 11 hours the first day it was okay he hadnt eaten, or the fact they said by day 5 milk should come in he'd be okay til then...... I think its gone a little too far to say that I should rather starve my son then feed him formula...... 14 months later I have an extremely healthy 25lb 34 inches tall son who is advanced in all aspects and we couldnt be happier. Would I have liked to have breastfed , before i had him yes, that was all I ever wanted, but it never happened and not because i didnt try but because it was not physically possible, and after tremendous torture from nurses any desire I had was long gone even if down the road the milk did come in( which still never happened)

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Kati, I'm not currently a L&D nurse but I worked in L&D for 3 years. I also worked for a practice of 8 OB/GYN's for 5 years so I know the field inside and out.

Mary, you have some valid points. Maternal age, weight and lifestyle have a huge part in c-section rates. But those factors were all considers into the studies I've read about c-section. I totally agree with you that women need to take control of their own birthing experience. And I don't think that anyone has a problem with signing the necessary waivers ahead of time. But can you honestly say the doctors you have worked with in the hospital setting aren't eager to move things along, most of the time. I've seen it a hundred times. "The fetus isn't descending fast enough" so "pit her" and the doctor goes to the patient says, the baby isn't descending properly and it could put him/her in harms way so we need to give you pitocin to get thing moving along. The women, trusting her doctor, says ok if its necessary and away we go. The pitocin causes contractions that are utterly unbearable so she begs for an epidural. The epidural slows everything back down and now the baby is in distress because of everything we just put the mother through. Now we have a man made emergency situation that may lead to c-section and for what? Because the labor lasted more than the cookie cutter 12 hours that its supposed to last? It's an awful practice and this is what I think we need to get away from. First stage can last for days and second stage can last for hours on end, we just have to be patient. Of course not every physician has this attitude but too many of them do and I've been around it long enough to know that its simply unacceptable. You talk about women being sue happy and thats forcing docs into extreme measures. I'm talking about docs doing things to avoid suits that are, in my opinion, complete malpractice. In what other environment, medically, would a doctor do surgery based solely on the fact that they gave too much medication and now need to do a surgery to prevent any further, more severe complications such as death and not call it malpractice? It just wouldn't happen. In any other case that doctor would be held accountable for over medicating and I think it should be the same in the instance of childbirth. I'm just saying...

On another note, I know a lot of women who have dealt with hospital staff that give them a hard time about not wanting certain interventions or treatments. I have also worked with staff that have the attitude that "they will do what we tell them because we know better than they do" Have you not come across some of these attitudes? I even had a nurse during the birth of my son tell me that it wasn't "standard procedure" to let the cord go white before cutting it. I calmly told her that was fine and told her that I wold be happy to sign a waiver. She said to me "Well there is no waiver. We just can't do it that way" So I simply asked her to talk with her unit supervisor. This isn't something I or any other women should have to be arguing about during LABOUR! If a women asks for something like that you do, period. End of discussion.

These are the types of things I'm referring to when it comes to my opinion that the medical community needs a change. I agree with you that women need to do their part and STOP trying to hold the physician responsible for things that are truly out of their control. But then that brings up a whole other topic of how screwed up our judicial system is that they would even allow some of the crazy lawsuits.

Jodi - posted on 08/12/2010

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"I'm all for encouraging and education people about breastfeeding but imprisoning mothers and fining them is ridiculous."



Exactly!!! After all, obviously imprisoning and fining the mother is MUCH better for the child....



Interesting article Kylie :)

Rosie - posted on 08/12/2010

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mary i just wanted to point out that i don't think that karla knows that you are a L&D nurse. your statements aren't just rhetoric you've read, its what you see and experience on a daily basis.

Ez - posted on 08/12/2010

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Dana, I didn't end up getting my natural birth :( I was given a spinal at the last minute for the doctor to use forceps after a 2.5hr second stage. It was horrible, and the result of 'hospital policy' that insists we shouldn't push for more than 2 hrs. I guess that's where my story ties in to what Mary was saying about potential litigation and the hospital covering it's ass. It's why I don't ever plan on delivering in a hospital again. Milla was descending fine, if slowly, and was only '2 knuckles' away. If I'd had another 1/2hr, I have no doubt I would have delivered her naturally.

Stifler's - posted on 08/12/2010

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Oh my God. What's with the hostility. It's just immature. I was merely illustrating how people who a) don't have kids b) found it easy to breastfeed think that it's all easy and people who don't do it are lazy or don't try hard enough. I obviously don't have that opinion now that I've had a baby.

Dana - posted on 08/12/2010

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Yes, it's fairly the same thing except my left side isn't connected to the cervix or connected to the right side. I actually just had the left side removed.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Dana, I'm not familiar with what a unicornuate uterus is but it doesn't sound good. lol I have a bicornuate uterus, which means my uterus is heart-shaped witha septum that comes down the center limiting the amount of space the infant has in-utero. My first son was breech because of it too. Is it anything similar to that?

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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excuse my error, emergency or medically necessary account for the 9%. I was including medically necessary as a type of emergency situation. My bad : )

Dana - posted on 08/12/2010

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Erin, I never realized you had a natural birth. That must have been insane since Milla was so huge!

Dana - posted on 08/12/2010

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Karla, I have a unicornuate uterus, my son was breach and I knew I was going to have a C-section.

Erin, Karla stated that 9% were emergency C-sections and the 25% were avoidable C-sections. I'm just pointing out the obvious, that there are other reasons for C-sections than emergencies or "avoidable" C's.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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I will admit that liability insurance has driven A LOT of OB's to pursue other fields but that being said, if they had the slightest idea as to what a natural birth looks like or what to expect that would help greatly!! It is a fact (look it up!) that less than 5% of all OB/GYN entering into their residency have ever been involved in a completely natural birth and by the time they finish residency only another 10% have witnessed one. Thats just sad! Medical school teaches them how to be surgeons and how to treat problems in the OB/GYN field. Pregnancy is not a problem that needs to be solved. I'm suggesting that this mind set may be a huge part of the problem. If more docs had more knowledge of natural birth it might be possible that they would be more inclined to support it and teach it to their patients, instead of going with their first reaction to intervene. I'm not saying that women don't come into the hospital expecting to have no pain. If thats what they choose then that is obviously their right. But what if, just what if things were opposite of what they are now. What if interventions and c-sections were frowned upon instead of glorified? Do you not think that women would then follow suit and prefer natural? I'm just saying, think about it..... It's all in the way things are viewed. There is no good place to start the change but if I had to choose a place it would be with medical community.



BTW, I'm must apologize for making you think I was being "superior, judgemental, and condescending" Since my first comment on this topic I have been attack and I am merely defending my opinion and point of view. I have said this a few times already, the beauty of all of this is that each women gets to make her own choice.

And addressing the same point, I fail to see how being combative, hostile and/or attacking me personally helps anyone, either.

Ez - posted on 08/12/2010

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Dana I would guess that means you would fall into the 9% of c-sections that are true emergencies or medically indicated?

Karla, I actually hold a lot of the same opinions as you regarding birth. I think the rate of intervention is outrageous and the scare tactics used to get pregnant and/or labouring women to conform is wrong. That being said, I recognise that not everyone has the same desire for a natural birth that I do. Some are quite happy to walk into L & D, get hooked up to monitors and an IV, and wait for their epidural. Would I do it? Hell no. Do I look down on someone who does? Nope. It's their choice, whether I understand it or not.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Loureen, a peson would have to be a delusional moron to believe its ok to make a law against the use of formula, wouldn't they? lol



Sara, I'm sure if you try you will find the time. I have a 9 year old and a 7 month old and one on the way and I work and go to school full-time. I don't have nannies or any of the kind of help. In fact, we don't even use sitters. My husband and I work it out so that one of us is at home at all times. It's not easy but we make it work for us because we're not comfortable leaving our children with anyone besides immediate family. The way I look at it is, if I really want something to happen and I stay positive, it will happen. I just need to be dedicated and have a little faith. And you are right, no amount of preparation will prevent and emergency. And in that case I am thankful for health care professional. I'm glad you know what you want and what to expect! Good luck to you with your pregnancy!

Dana - posted on 08/12/2010

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Karla, I just want to point out that I had a C-section, it was planned and couldn't be avoided. So that doesn't mean that 25% of C-sections could be avoided.

Charlie - posted on 08/12/2010

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Geezus Karla ,
I never implied you were a "delusional moron" but hey if that's how you see it i wont argue .

[deleted account]

Would you like to pay for me to take off work so I can read books and attend classes? Sounds fab. But it wasn't an option. Present day, another pregnancy: would you like to babysit my two year old so I can read books and attend classes?

Sure I've done my research and asked question. I have a plan that I've talked over with my doctor. But no amount of prep will prevent an emergency.

Johnny - posted on 08/12/2010

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Well, having been following this post, I actually had the impression that it was bash Gisele Bundchen hour, not breast feeding & natural birth. I was happy to join in on that parade, given that I thought her comments indicated a serious case of "head up her ass" disease that probably requires some intervention. However, I am very pro-breastfeeding and very pro-natural birth. I just weaned my 2 year old and I am hoping to home birth the next time around. I think most women on here, including myself, really just took umbrage with the sanctimonious, know-it-all tone coming from a woman who breastfed for 3 weeks and parents with the help of nannies, coaches, and a whole private staff. Yes, some people here clearly have unresolved issues with their own births or breastfeeding problems that they proceed to bash these things at every turn. But most women here simply just want other women to show more respect for each unique individual's choices.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Laura, I didn't mean for it to sound like I was accusing women of being lazy but I do think that most women are under-educated about the birth process when going into labor. I read about 20 books, watched multiple videos, went through two different birthing courses (one that consisted of two 8 hours sessions and one that was 12, 3 hour sessions), consulted several midwives and talked with as many mothers as possible who had been through it already and I still think there was plenty more I could have learned to prepare before going into childbirth. Education and knowledge are the key and think if more women tried it then less would end up with interventions. Ultimately, the reason why I am so strongly against interventions is because they can have the potential to lead to unnecessary c-section and with a c-section rate in the US of 34% and climbing its an issue that we as women really need to address. I'm not saying that every women who requests an epidural end up in c-section but only about 9% of c-sections are actually due to emergency so the other 25% could have been avoided. Many people are under the impression that c-section is the safest possible outcome when in fact c-section raises infant mortality rates significantly. These are just facts. I'm not trying to impose guilt or hatred or frustration but to simply put the facts out there and hope that it will help a mom-to-be think about things differently.
I thank you for pointing that out to me. I will be more mindful of my posts. Again, I don't want to accuse I just wanted to support the other side of this debate. Until my posts, no one was really debating. It was bash breast-feeding and natural birth hour! lol

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Kati, I choose not to attack people personally. This is a debate, not a forum for women to beat up on one another. I really have nothing to debate with you about and I'm choosing not to address your personal attacks. Thats not what circle of moms is about.

Isobel - posted on 08/12/2010

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I did it both ways...the first time I was induced...panicked, went into shock, and had the epidural (but I hadn't slept in 2 days and I just really wasn't up to it)...the second time, I went into labour WHILE I was at the hospital having a non-stress test. For that one I had no meds...and it was fabulous.



My natural birth was FAR easier...but he came in the middle of the day, I was fed and rested, and it only took about an hour and a half...a far cry from the first.



I always tell pregnant women (who ask for advice) that my natural birth was far easier, as was the recovery, but they should not feel ashamed for needing pain meds if that's how it works out for them.



Karla, I don't think the problem is WHAT you are saying...I think the problem is HOW you are saying it. Many women choose not to go the natural route, and that's their choice. Assuming that they are uneducated or lazy, isn't helping anybody.



I breastfed, and again with the second, it was easy peasy...but the first was a nightmare...it took a LONG time for her to latch properly and I bled for a longgggg time, and supplemented her with formula when I was in too much pain to imagine breastfeeding or pumping...and there's nothing wrong with that either.



Having a happy mother who is happy enough and has enough energy to take care of her baby is far more important than breastmilk, or natural births.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Mary, not sure what you are going on about. You and I are saying the same thing. Thanks for trying to "dumb it down" for me but I am more than aware of what standard procedure is in the hospital and what needs to be done to get the birth you want in that setting. Although most physicians, in the end, will not listen you and threaten that you are putting you infants life at risk, just to get you do what they want. I would just like to add that you sound like a very educated person (based on you post) and I find it shocking that you would think someone else'e OPINION is off base. Anyway, I'm not sleep deprived and don't get me wrong, I love breast-feeding my child. I was simply having a conversation with Emma about our experiences. I was trying to illustrate that its not easy but OH SO WORTH IT!!

Kati, I'm not even going to address your hatred but thanks for the opinion.

Rosie - posted on 08/12/2010

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karla perhaps you are bending over backwards and doing what society want YOU to do because you are OBVIOUSLY miserable breastfeeding. how can that be good for anybody involved?
i absolutely believe i had wonderful BEAUTIFUL births-all three with an epidural. do i regret it? no. do i feel like i missed out on something? no. i do agree that there should be some positives, but Giseles words were NOT positive. they were condescending, rude, judgemental, and completely off base. each time i gave birth i went as long as i could without an epidural. first time i made it to8- 9 cm before they gave me an epidural-i'd had enough. with my second and third births i came in with a PLAN of going till i was very uncomfortable and then getting an epidural-which both times ended up being 5-6 cm. i knew what i wanted and got it. i still gave birth to 3 beautiful boys, and remember their births like it was yesterday. did you get a medal or anything for going the all natural route? i just don't get the over inflated ego some women get from giving birth without drugs.

as for formula-gah!!! breastfeeding was horrible for me. in fact i'd go as far as to say i HATED it, every moment he was attached to me was horrifying. THANK GOODNESS theres formula.

Mary - posted on 08/12/2010

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Karla, I'm going to chalk it up to your miseries with breastfeeding combined with a bit of sleep deprivation, because so many of your opinions and statements are quite off base.

There are so many statements I would like to refute, but I'll just focus on one...

You seem to believe that unmedicated births don't occur more often because women do not have the necessary support or that "the birth you want is not offered to you by the medical community".

I will concede that woman need to stop terrorizing each other with horror stories about their births...it accomplishes nothing, and, quite frankly, is often embellished and not quite factual. I've been with more than a few of my friends for their births...and when I hear them describing it weeks, months, and years later, I'm sitting there thinking, WTF? That's not what REALLY happened (and the story changes over time). For the sake of friendship (and confidentiality), I just keep my mouth shut.

As for the medical community....well, first off, if you want the most non-interventional birth possible, you have no business expecting that in a hospital - it's just not a realistic expectation. That said, it is possible to have an unmedicated birth in a hospital seting - but you need to have several detailed discussions with your provider beforehand, and you need to be ready to accept responsibility for refusing things like fetal monitoring and IV access. By that, I mean you will have to most likely sign something that says that the risks of not allowing these interventions have been explained and discussed, and you choose to refuse them, and release the hospital/provider from liability that may result in not having said interventions. I think women forget that it is THEIR body, and they do have the right to refuse any treatment they do not wish...but with that refusal, comes a certain amount of personal responsibility. In this day and age of the lawsuit, OB's need to protect themselves as well as doing what,in their medical opinion, is best for mother and baby.

As for support....well, you've had 9 months to work on who you want with you for delivery. Yes, women who want an unmedicated birth really do need to prepare for this, and part of that preparation is determinig who in their life is going to be an EFFECTIVE means of support. If your partner is going to sit in a corner and watch TV, you'd better find someone else, be it your mother, sisiter, friend, or hire a doula. This really is not something most woman can do alone.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Toni, there is a huge difference between not wanting to do a natural childbirth and not trying due to fear or worse because you don't have the support to try it. I think if women would stop sharing their horror stories and focus on the positive, the beautiful baby, then more women would be encouraged to research and practice for a natural childbirth. I agree with you that every women should be able to do what she wants during her labor and that the beauty of it. What sucks is when the birth you want isn't offered to you by the medical community or as a first time pregnant women you are so scared by all the images, stories and myths that you don't even consider natural birth. They have no idea what they are missing and may never have the opportunity to find out. Know what I mean?

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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My damn doctor wouldn't do it!! I was SSOOOO pissed! I even went to a ear,nose, throat specialist and because my pediatrician wouldn't do it the specialist wouldn't either. Of course they were both men and had NO IDEA what the hell it feels like to have a tongue ties infant. They both said "well your baby is obviously feeding just fine. We can't do a tongue clip for the mothers comfort" MOTHERS COMFORT??? wtf? Seriously? Most women would have given up at that point!! I even threatened that (knowing damn well I wasn't going to stop breast-feeding) I told the specialist if he did do the cut I would be forced to quit bf due to pain. And he said "well that your choice" I argued with him further, asking what he thought was better for him, quit bf due to pain or making a minor minor cut under my 2 month olds tongue?

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Karla - you can have tongue ties snipped which then makes BF easier - my son was born with a 75% tongue tie we had it snipped the day after he was born - it doesn't hurt them and it only bleeds very slightly if at all. It then makes it much easier to feed the babies, although we still had major latching issues with my son (he never latched but I think this was more to do with his size), pumping is hard - to produce more milk you need your baby nearby you (they stimulate hormones) - I pumped for 3 weeks when my milk dried up completely (I was gutted), but I think this was connected to my pre-e and the fact I had been so poorly - my body needed to repair itself.

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Pumping hasn't worked for me either. Its just not the same. For some reason when I try to pump I can only get like and ounce at a time. It becomes really hard when I have to go to work and school but I make it work somehow.
I have to admit, breast-feeding has been a daily struggle for me for the entire 7 months of my sons life so far. He has a tongue tie which prevents him from being able to latch properly. He gets plenty of milk so that isnt a problem. The problem is, the way he sucks COMPLETELY destroys my nipples. I t took me 3 full months to get past the cracked and bleeding nipples. And even though that subsided it still hurts like HELL! I have to remind myself everyday, "this is the best thing I can be doing, this is the best thing I can be doing" lol So I guess I am, in a way, hard on moms who simply decide not to try. If you give it a go and you have complications then fine but women need to realize its not always easy and you may have to work at it. But in the end its up to each person individually to decide what is best for their children.

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Karla we COULD all have drug free births but we don't all WANT to - I went into labour with a very open mind that I would go for as long as possible without drugs but if I needed some I would have them - now I only used gas and air and never considered an epi but very nearly had Pethadine (luckily I progressed VERY quickly and so while trying to put a monitor on my sons head the midwife noted I was dilated enough for gas and air so I never got the shot of Pethadine - my labour was only 45 mins long). It's fantastic that you had such a successful natural birth BUT many women do not want that.

Stifler's - posted on 08/12/2010

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Pumping never worked for me at all. I passed out the first time I did it. I sometimes say too many negative things but it's reality, before I had Logan I'd never heard of acid reflux, not being able to breastfeed if you want to and stuff like that. I thought everyone was just lazy if they couldn't do it or didn't try. I wanted to prove myself wrong lol

Karla - posted on 08/12/2010

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Loureen, I'm not a delusional moron! I believe in free will and freedom of choice! Obviously, to say, "there should be a law against formula" is the statement of a simpleton.I really don't care what each person does with their their bodies or their children. What gets me fired up is when I see a forum such as this one where women are being SO incredibly negative and sharing all their stories of failed attempts at natural birth and breast-feeding. Now wonder most women don't even try in the first place!! I like to stay positive and share my experience on a positive note. No matter how bad the pain or hard it really is to breast-feed I won't sit here and say how awful it was, because it WASN'T! It was beautiful, and amazing! I found out that my body is capable of something that seems so superhuman. I don't even have word to describe how enlightening birthing my children was. The word I want to pass on to other moms-to-be is one of positive energy and self-education. There a million and one ways to get yourself prepared for labor, whether it be yoga or meditation, or hypnosis, or birthing classes, or simply reading great natural birthing books it all helps. And it DOES work if you really train yourself, your body and mind.

Emma, thats what happened to my sister-in-law. She ended up pumping 8 times a day for the first year of her sons life. I give her props because I really don't think I would have had the dedication to pump that much.

Stifler's - posted on 08/12/2010

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That's how I felt before I started formula feeding. I was deadset against it. I think I tried so hard to breastfeed that I couldn't breastfeed.

Charlie - posted on 08/12/2010

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Karla ,
how do you feel about giselle's comments given she only breastfed or 3 weeks .

Charlie - posted on 08/12/2010

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WHOA i remember , it was only 4 weeks ago , paaaaaaaaiiiin and i want to remember that pain because when i feel i cannot do something i will draw off that day to pull me through .

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