......Burn forever in agony for such a moral choice?"

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 04/25/2011 ( 152 moms have responded )

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WHAT WOULD BE YOUR RESPONCE TO THIS...(I did not write it)


"As for those who say that if we reject God, we go to Hell by our own free will, again I ask why? Suppose a conscientious person simply cannot believe in the concept of God. Why would that person burn forever in agony for such a moral choice?"

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Lucy - posted on 04/30/2011

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Danielle, I think you may be a little confused about Catholicism. I am not a Catholic myself, but it is a fact of history that the Roman Catholic Church is the original Christian sect, a movement started by one of Christ's own disciples. If you told the Pope he was not a Christian, I think he may have something to say about that!

Also, I must say that your extreme views would usually rile me up considerably, but I find I cannot feel cross towards you as your posts are so sad to me. You seem isolated from the rest of humanity by the sense of superiority that comes across in what you say.

I know lots of Christians and Christian ministers (many of them are family members and close friends of mine) and although I don't agree with all their views or the hierarchical nature of organised religion in general, they are full of love for their fellow man. No love comes across in your posts, only arrogance and self righteousness, which, from experience, I don't really recognise as Christian traits.

[deleted account]

Danielle, have you ever thought that your seeming inability to answer posts from your own mind instead of doing cut/pastes may indicate a lack of understanding of your own faith?

Mrs. - posted on 04/29/2011

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The above is written on some website called photos for the soul...just cut and paste the first couple phrases and you will find it.

I don't understand how responding with someone else's "work" without comment or a response of your own counts as a debate.

Krista - posted on 04/28/2011

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@Loureen: I love vindaloo! Bring that shit ON, Vishnu!



@Danielle: "A conscientious person who cannot except God simply hates righteosness, and the fact that they are not as God himself."



Danielle, do you believe in all of the other gods out there, both past and present? No? Why not?



And if you don't believe in any of those other gods, then why is it so darned difficult for you to understand why I don't believe in yours? It has nothing to do with hating righteousness -- there's no love OR hate involved here. I just don't believe in your god, any more than I believe in the Hindu gods, or the Roman gods, or the Egyptian gods.



And personally, I find it rather self-centred of you to think that we atheists are all consumed with hatred for your god and for righteousness, and that's why we don't believe. As the wise man once said, "It's not all about YOU, sweetheart."

Charlie - posted on 04/28/2011

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What is everyone gonna do when they get to the gates and Vishnu says ( in the best Apu from the simpsons voice )

" I am very sorry but you are not Hindu and so I cannot let you in , go straight to Naraka and eat the spiciest of vindaloos for eternity "



But seriously , you all know that the human brain produces DMT ( Dimethyltryptamine) at the time of death , one of the most phsycedelic chemicals known to man ....no wonder people see all sorts of stuff when they die .... !



"A conscientious person who cannot except God simply hates righteosness, and the fact that they are not as God himself. they want to be there own Gods..."



That is an interesting statement considering two

generations of statisticians found that the ratio of convicts without religious training is about 1/10 of 1%.

During 10 years in Sing-Sing, those executed for murder were 65% Catholics/Christians,

26% Protestants, 6% Hebrew, 2% Pagan, and less than 1/3 of 1% non-religious.



Steiner first surveyed 27 states, and found 19,400 Christians, 5,000 with

no preference, and only 3 Agnostics (one each in Connecticut, New Hampshire,

and Illinois). A later, more complete survey found 60,605 Christians, 5,000

Jews, 131 Pagans, 4,000 no preference, and only 3 Agnostics.



I bet you every single one claimed to accept god , I bet every single one prayed to him everyday .



What does this tell you about parochial school systems or claims that religion is the guardian of morals?



Fifty-two percent of people belong to no church, yet live clean lives and supply less than 1% of the total criminal population. So much for religious indoctrination.

I mean how can we really take you seriously Danielle when you say things like the above quote and not to mention this one



" for one to not believe in hell is foolish. hell is a literal place, at the core of the earth."



Really it's Literally in the centre of earth ?

152 Comments

View replies by

Shelley - posted on 05/22/2011

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Got a question for Christians out there (though I should ask this separately). So you go to heaven, and you got to be perfect, right? Is there freedom of choice in heaven? Seems for it to be heaven there should be. What if I want to choose something that doesn't fit into God's idea of perfect whilst I am in heaven?

[deleted account]

Me too - my favorite author. Two of hers are in my top 5 fave books of all time. The Handmaid's Tale and Lady Oracle.

[deleted account]

What I often wonder about these particular Christians (and they are a select bunch) is if they are ever happy? I mean truly happy even when alone. It's been my experience that when they're witnessing, they focus on horrible humanity is and how awful they were before they accepted Jesus and how unworthy we all are. I never hear about them being happy afterwards. Unless they lose themselves in (quoting The Handmaid's Tale) "esctacy of abasement."



I feel sorry for them, I really do. They just seem so frickin unhappy.

Veronica - posted on 05/05/2011

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"you made a comment the catholics that sin, and again if they ask for forgiveness, they go to heaven.
first of all, catholics believe differently from christianity. they have there own bible, pray to a statue, believe in mary as using her name instead of jesus (mary called jesus her lord.) and pray with a rosery (which is no where in scripture to save from sins, ect....but a symbol of a man made ritual.
therefore if a catholic, who repented of sin, followed christ and believed in what the holy bible says accoring to the original hebrew and greek manuscripts, will be saved if they were to die. " (I missed the 411 on how to italize quotes - this is from Danielle back on page 4)

Dear Miss D - I would like to ask you, that while you are ranting and raving about your 'righteousness' that you do some educating on religions before you speak of them. What we do as Catholics, are simple traditions - praying the Rosary, over the life and death of Christ - and praying TO Mary, for her to PRAY FOR US - is not putting her before Jesus - she is his mother, and is close to him in heaven, therefore, we ask her to pray with us and for us - for others --- Its the same as me asking you to pray for my family or friend, etc. Please stick to your own 'knowledge' within your own faith, and leave other religions/faith alone.

As for this thread - (like i said before) I dont know what will truly happen to the 'non-believers' if God really is there when we all die. God knows your heart, he knows all - so its not up to us to take context from the Bible and start knocking people down all over the place with it. Last I recall the Lord say, "Spread the Good News! Spread the Good Word of the Lord" - he didn't say, " go damn and condemn everyone to hell, and sit in judgement for me" How you judge others, is how you will be judged.
Try this on for size Danielle, the Bible also says, "Don't try to pull the sliver out of your brother's eye, when you have a plank in your own."

[deleted account]

I don't know Lisa. How are we supposed to interpret the story of mass genocide at Midian? Where even the babes in arms were murdered by the Israelites with only the virgin girls left alive as booty? Joshua led the army against Jericho where every single person and animal was killed. What was the crime of Jericho? They were on the land the Israelites were supposed to have. Yet there are hymns singing in praise of this horrific story. "Joshua fit the battle of Jericho" anyone?

Now one can argue that that was simply how warfare was done at the time and I won't disagree but it's the only cases where we sit back and say, yeah it wasn't really nice but I'm sure there was a really good reason for killing a bunch of people.

Minnie - posted on 05/02/2011

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See...I don't know if I agree that it is the -Bible- that makes it easy for some to misinterpret it- but their culture and assuming that they can interpret it anyway they choose. An IFB pastor and a rabbi have a very different take on many parts of the Bible. While an IFB pastor takes those rod passages in Proverbs face value as a commandment to spank children a rabbi would look at someone interpreting it that way like they had two heads.



So I don't think it's the Bible's fault but our own cultural biases that are at fault. Or maybe it's the KJV's fault- when those scholars sat down and decided to formulate the 'authorized' English version and pepper and twist it with their own opinions.

Johnny - posted on 05/02/2011

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You can only blame the individuals for choosing their own path. But it is not like the bible does not offer plenty of written support for hate. Most followers of the bible are able to reason for themselves what is appropriate and inappropriate to follow from this book. There are crazy people taking any number of books as evidence to support horrible choices, but the bible does make it easy for some.

Jenni - posted on 05/02/2011

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It's sort of like blaming the planes that crashed into the world trade center instead of the terrorists who flew the plane.

[deleted account]

That's too broad of a question. I certainly look for Biblical answers in various areas of my life, but I also don't agree w/ people who attempt to use the Bible to condone their hateful actions.

Minnie - posted on 05/02/2011

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I'm not going to speak for Teresa, but I personally don't put much weight on any individual's interpretation of the Bible. So what if a person says the Bible told him or her to do it? Does that mean that's actually, truthfully what the original Hebrew says?

Most people who say that are westerners, taught by western pastors, who went to western bible colleges, taught out of a western bible (KJV).

I don't hate the Bible just because some idiot out there can't do some research.

Jenni - posted on 05/02/2011

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I blame the person, not the book. I blame men blindly following other men. I blame mob mentality.

Mabel - posted on 05/02/2011

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But how do you feel about the bible when a person says the bible told them to do it(whatever it may be)?

[deleted account]

I agree w/ that Jennifer. It was the comments about the Bible and feeling sorry for anyone that believes it that saddened me. Believe in the Bible or not, there are definitely SOME good things in there.... as you, yourself pointed out. ;)

Jenni - posted on 05/02/2011

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I have to agree with some of what Tonya said. I don't like when people use religion to justify the deaths of thousands by saying it's their own fault for being sinners.



Although I'm pretty sure a lot of Christians don't share those views. I don't think that the deaths of thousands of people in natural disasters should be blamed on themselves for being 'immoral'. That to me is really callous and inhuman.

[deleted account]

Dang, I'm sorry I can back to this post. MOST of you that don't believe.... I have full respect for you, but some of you.... well, I have no respect for 'bashers' on either side of the fence. :(

[deleted account]

"I really feel sorry for you.I went to a web site about the tornadoes that went through my area in Tenn and would you believe there was a woman saying the reason the south was hit so hard was because we were getting punished for our sins...WTFE?!"

Yeah, always a quandary there. Are we punished NOW for our sins or afterwards or both? One would think that considering the enormity of the Hell Punishment, the earthly punishments would be nil. I guess we get it coming or going or everafter.

Mabel - posted on 05/02/2011

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OH NO I have done it again...Pissed off another Christian! what will I ever dooooo?? %{

Lindsy - posted on 05/02/2011

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My response would be 'you are not my judge in this life or the next, therefore your moral standards count for nothing when it comes to my choices".

Krista - posted on 05/02/2011

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the south was hit so hard was because we were getting punished for our sins...WTFE?

Yeah, that's kind of funny that some people look at it that way. If the Christian god punished sins by way of natural disaster, then shouldn't secular nations, and nations that do not believe in the Christian god, all be pretty much underwater by now? Heck, we Canadians have some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world...and yet, a surprisingly LOW amount of natural disasters.

So if God was all about punishing sinners, then he must have a soft spot for the Canucks, because we've been getting off pretty darned lightly so far.

Jenni - posted on 05/02/2011

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Hmmm... I actually like reading the Bible. I love learning about the culture, beliefs and history of the time. There is a reason the book still impacts our culture so greatly today. haha and I'm an athiest.

Mabel - posted on 05/02/2011

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That damn bible is one of the dumbest books I have ever read and believe me I have read a lot of books,and as for the ones who actually believe in that crap...I really feel sorry for you.I went to a web site about the tornadoes that went through my area in Tenn and would you believe there was a woman saying the reason the south was hit so hard was because we were getting punished for our sins...WTFE?!Does any one know what this whole area is called over here???The fucking BIBLE BELT!!!!!Now why in the hell do you want to worship an imaginary man who kills and hurts for his enjoyment????

Jackie - posted on 05/02/2011

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"for those of you who are convicted at the truth of hell, by all means iam here for you, and want to help you. remember: i do love each and everyone of you. if i didnt, i would say, who cares, there going to hell.....but it doesnt have to be! I love you so much iam giving you the truth."

@ Danielle - condescending much? self righteous much? You almost speak as if you are Jesus himself. I think I may have thrown up in my mouth a little bit just reading that.

Ps. Thanks for all of your wisdom and knowledge. I will be sure to tell it to the worms when I die.

Isobel - posted on 05/02/2011

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$135...I'm in I'll take ALL your pets after you are raptured ;)

Isobel - posted on 05/01/2011

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Where does it say the date of the Rapture? I can't wait for all the free cars and houses ;P

Charlie - posted on 05/01/2011

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Doesnt matter about the Mayan prophecy because the rapture will be here THIS MONTH ! May 21'st ......arm yourselves with tinned food people .

Tara - posted on 05/01/2011

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@Jane, it's supposed to be on December 21st 2012, which incidentally is my 39th birthday.
:)
and yes 2000 Jan.1 was supposed to be the end of all technology based on computers, because they suspected they wouldn't work because when they were programmed they didn't include the 20's only the 19's and so they thought all computers would crash, not being able to recognize the date.
Silly.

Isobel - posted on 05/01/2011

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The 2000 thing was Y2K (we thought all the computers were going to shut down and that civilization would end that way.

Rosie - posted on 05/01/2011

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it's dec 21rst (cant remember the exact date, but i think that's right) in 2012 jane. :)

Charlie - posted on 05/01/2011

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Spider pig , spider pig ...does whatever a spider pig does *in spiderman theme song tune*

Rosie - posted on 04/30/2011

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theres no mention of lent, or easter or christmas in the bible either, does that mean christians shouldn't celebrate those days?
seriously if one took everything the bible said to heart, we'd all be crazy trying to weed our way through all of the inconsistancies.

Krista - posted on 04/30/2011

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As am I. However, I was raised Roman Catholic, and can attest that Danielle is very mistaken in her assessment of the Catholic faith.



first of all, catholics believe differently from christianity.



Catholicism is part of Christianity. It is a Christian faith -- it was the original Christian faith, actually. So I would imagine that Catholics are fairly insulted at this implication that they are not Christians.



they have there own bible



No. They use the same bible that other Christians do.



pray to a statue, believe in mary as using her name instead of jesus (mary called jesus her lord.)



Catholics revere Mary, but they do not worship her as a goddess. They pray to God and Jesus (i.e. the Lord's Prayer) and they also pray to Mary. Many of them also pray to various saints. This does not mean that they are putting those saints above Jesus or God. However, in the Catholic faith, certain saints are thought to confer special protection and blessings under certain situations. So for example, a woman in childbirth might pray to Jesus, but might also pray to Saint Anne (who was Mary's mother, and is considered the patron saint of women in labour).



and pray with a rosery (which is no where in scripture to save from sins, ect....but a symbol of a man made ritual.



They're a simple meditative device, and are also handy to help you keep track of how many "Our Fathers" you've said. Eastern Orthodox Christians also use prayer beads.

Isobel - posted on 04/30/2011

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and they don't do mass...and every catholic I've ever known has prayed to Mary at some point.

just sayin'

Isobel - posted on 04/30/2011

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The protestent religion does NOT put Mary above Jesus...they just allow divorce.

Jay - posted on 04/30/2011

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DANIELLE:
''jane, you made a comment the catholics that sin, and again if they ask for forgiveness, they go to heaven.
first of all, catholics believe differently from christianity. they have there own bible, pray to a statue, believe in mary as using her name instead of jesus (mary called jesus her lord.) and pray with a rosery (which is no where in scripture to save from sins, ect....but a symbol of a man made ritual.
therefore if a catholic, who repented of sin, followed christ and believed in what the holy bible says accoring to the original hebrew and greek manuscripts, will be saved if they were to die. ''
I WAS RAISED IN A CATHOLIC HOME AND BROUGHT TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY, CATHOLIC CHURCH. NOONE PRAYED TO A STATUE? MARY IS GREATLY RESPECTED? AND CATHOLICS ARE CHRITIANS TOO ONE OF THE ORIGINAL SECT STARTED BY CHRIST'S OWN FOLLOWERS!!!!! THEY USE THE SAME BOOK, THE HOLY BIBLE, ALTHOUGH YOU CAN BUY A BOOK OF JUST THE READINGS USED IN CHURCH (I BOUGHT IT FOR MY HUSBAND FOR CHRISTMAS)
I DONT THINK YOU KNOW MUCH ABOUT THE CATHOLIC RELIGION TO SAY THOSE THINGS!
BUT ME AND MY HUSBAND DID ATTEND A CHRISTIAN CHURCH FOR A WHILE BECAUSE HE WANTED TO TRY IT. WE LEFT AFTER A FEW WEEKS BECAUSE APPARENTLY HE IS DAMNED FOR MARRYING A NON-CHRISTIAN AND WE ARE AGAINST THOSE KIND OF TEACHINGS. SO MY HUSBAND RETURNED TO HIS CATHOLIC CHURCH AND I ATTEND EVERY WEEK TO SUPPORT HIM AND HELP HIM TEACH OUR SON HIS RELIGION. xxxx

Krista - posted on 04/30/2011

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Danielle vs. Teresa: Christian Cage Match!

In this corner, we have The Brimstone Baby, armed with dire warnings and her mastery of Ctrl +C! She's a newcomer to this arena, but has already made a BIG impression!

And in this corner, we have Tiny Cares-A-Lot! With an open mind, a loving heart, and a tendency to say "Bite me", this miniature scrapper is a real contender!

Johnny - posted on 04/30/2011

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"greetings in jesus' name."

As Lucy just so eloquently put it, "arrogance and self righteousness" is all I can get from someone who claims to speak in another person's name. You claim to speak the word of Christ, but having read the bible, I do not recognize any of Jesus in you. All I can see is the God of the OT

Teresa is very correct. Pointing out a person's sins towards god is pretty meaningless when they don't even believe in your god to begin with.

I was wondering Danielle (or any other believers in the Christan god) , how is it that you came to reject the holiness of Shiva, Satnam, Rama, Tian, Matres, Gaia, Amotken....? How did you develop the confidence to reject a faith in these deities and choose not to follow their paths to heaven? Do you ever worry that choosing Jehovah over any of these deities may lead you on your own path to a different hell stemming from a rejection of what may be the "one true faith"? How do you know that when you lie dying that you won't suddenly be overwhelmed by the need to call out to Allah in your final moments?

[deleted account]

Teresa makes a great point and one that I generally share about most evangelicals. They talk a great game but when it comes time to actually think and give answers to people like me, they pretend I don't exist.

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