CALLING ALL CHRISTIANS...

Kristi - posted on 09/20/2012 ( 13 moms have responded )

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What do you make of the ideas suggesting that Jesus had a wife and/or a female disciple? The papyrus was determined to be authentic and the translation was confirmed. The Catholic Church denounces any validity in it's messege.



http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57...



I would like to hear your views and opinions on this discovery. Do you think either presidential candidate will touch on it?

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[deleted account]

as for that missing part of Jesus' life, i wouldn't say it omitted so much as just not mentioned in the books that are part of the bible we know now. really, the men who wrote the books of the gospels didn't know Jesus until the later years when he began teaching, so why would they write about the time before they knew him?



the KJV Bible's gospels mention his birth, the time he was in the tabernacle at twelve, and the last few years of his life when he was traveling and teaching in his early thirties. he was a carpenter in the meantime, like Joseph, and his apostles wouldn't really find that part of his life to be worth much mention since it didn't have much to do with his being called to teach.



that's just how i figure it.

Aleks - posted on 09/28/2012

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Ok, while I am not a Bible scholar, nor do I even own a copy currently, I have in the past read, in the foreword of the Catholic Bible itself of some of the disputed books which were not included, and why. I don't remember their names, tbh - my memory for specific details isn't strong, though I have pretty good memory for the meaning and main themes/story of given information, etc.



I have run a quick search for you Kristi C and this is what I have been able to come up with:



From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Bo...



Contents of The Lost Books of the Bible{♦ = found in The Apostolic Fathers}



The Protevangelion

The Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ

The Infancy Gospel of Thomas

The Epistles of Jesus Christ and Abgarus King of Edessa

The Gospel of Nicodemus (Acts of Pilate)

The Apostles' Creed (throughout history)

The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Laodiceans

The Epistles of Paul the Apostle to Seneca, with Seneca's to Paul

The Acts of Paul and Thecla

♦ The Epistles of Clement (The First and Second Epistles of Clement to the Corinthians)

♦ The Epistle of Barnabas

♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians

♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians

♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians

♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Romans

♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Philidelphians

♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to the Smyrneans

♦ The Epistle of Ignatius to Polycarp

♦ The Shepherd of Hermas (Visions, Commands, and Similitudes)

Letter of Herod To Pilate the Governor

Letter of Pilate to Herod

The Lost Gospel of Peter

♦ The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians

[edit] Contents of The Forgotten Books of EdenThe Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan (The First and Second Book of Adam and Eve)

The Secrets of Enoch (also known as the Slavonic Enoch or Second Enoch)

The Psalms of Solomon

The Odes of Solomon

The Letter of Aristeas

The Fourth Book of Maccabees

The Story of Ahikar

Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs



From The Reluctant Messanger:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/lost_forg...



Although not considered canon, these ancient texts are part of the heritage of Judaism and Christianity. Some, such as the Book of Enoch, are condidered sacred by some. The Ethiopian Church has The Book of Enoch as part of their Bible. The Gospel of Thomas is considered by many as the Fifth Gospel and others consider it the source sayings document that preceeded all of the Gospels. All of these texts, at one time or another, were lost to the world until found within the last 120 year by travelers or archeologists. Although some are considered to be pseudepigraphic, they carry significant meaning and insight into events of that time. Read them and discover their treasures for yourself.





Biblical Corruption?

The Acts of The Apostle Thomas

The Apocalypse of Peter

The Apocalypse of Paul

The Book of Enoch

Eugnostos the Blessed

The Book of James - Protevangelium

The Book of Jubilees

The Dialogue of the Saviour

The Didache: Teachings of the 12 Apostles

The Epistle of Barnabas

The Epistle to the Laodiceans

The Essenes and The Dead Sea Scrolls

The Essene Gospel of Peace

The Essene Book of Revelation

The Forgotten Books of Eden: First and Second Book of Adam and Eve:

The Gospel of the Egyptians

The Gospel of Mary Magdalene.

The Gospel of the Nativity of Mary

The Gospel of Nicodemus

The Gospel of The Perfect Life / Holy (12) Twelve

The Gospel of Philip

The Gospel of Thomas

The Gospel of Truth

The Heavenly Prince Melchizedek

The Lost Gospel of Peter

The Sophia (Wisdom) of Jesus

The Lost Ten Tribes of Israel

The Lost Years of Jesus

The Testament of Abraham

The Treatise on the Resurrection



(the great thing about the above, is the fact that each of the listed is a link to open and read the said scriptures.)



There is also a fantastic answer in the following link,, although its not an official and verifiable one, it is quite specific and detailed. A lot of it seems to be essentially what I have read over the years about changes and omissions that have occured in the Bible, and why, etc.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...



As for the missing 20yrs, well...... from what I remember, the last thing written about Jesus' life was at 12yrs of age before starting the story again just when he started to teach and spread "the message" around the 30-33yr mark. So, that would be 20 or so years.



As for the mentioned brothers, once again, I don't actually own a bible at the moment to be able to go and look and find the reference that actually got me thinking to the be able to post it here.

However, I have looked things up for you and here are some links if you feel like having a quick look and read:



http://www.ucg.org/christian-living/prof...



And from the following link http://www.christdeaf.org/bible/Brothers...



"we learn that after Jesus was born, Mary and Joseph began having normal marital relations. And so they had several more children. The Bible names four sons (in addition to Jesus).



James

The Greek spelling is "Iakobos".



Joseph

We would say, "Joseph, Jr." Sometimes also spelled "Joses".



Simon





Judas

This was a very common and honorable name for Jewish boys, named after Judah, the patriarch of the tribe. Sometimes his name is translated as "Jude", so as not to confuse readers with Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Jesus.





The Bible also mentions that Mary and Joseph had daughters, but it does not tell us how many or their names.



Jesus finished telling these stories. Then he moved on from there. He came to his hometown of Nazareth. There he began teaching the people in their synagogue. They were amazed.



"Where did this man get this wisdom? Where did he get this power to do miracles?" they asked. "Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary? Aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren't all his sisters with us?..." (Matthew 13:53-56; also see Mark 6:1-6)





What did James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas think about their older brother, Jesus?



Even Jesus' own brothers did not believe in him. (John 7:5)



And sometimes they thought Jesus was crazy.



Jesus entered a house. Again a crowd gathered. It was so large that Jesus and his disciples were not even able to eat. His family heard about this. So they went to take charge of him. They said, "He is out of his mind." (Mark 3:20-21)

...

But after Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension, we see that His brothers changed their opinion about Him.



The apostles... all came together regularly to pray. The women joined them too. So did Jesus' mother Mary and his brothers. (Acts 1:12,14)



What caused their change in attitude about their brother Jesus? Paul gives us a hint in 1 Corinthians 15:3-7.



What I received I passed on to you. And it is the most important of all. Here is what it is:



Christ died for our sins, just as Scripture said he would.

He was buried.

He was raised from the dead on the third day, just as Scripture said he would be.

He appeared to Peter.

Then he appeared to the Twelve.

After that, he appeared to more than 500 believers at the same time...

He appeared to James.

Then he appeared to all the apostles.

...."



ETA:

Just thought I should add Wikipedia link there, too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_the_J...

Kristi - posted on 09/29/2012

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Goodness Aleks--



I'm going to be reading for a month! Thank you for all your research! I truly had no idea about these books, etc. I'm looking forward to exploring all this info! ; )

[deleted account]

Kristi - I'm interested (ie not trying to sound sarcastic) - how do you see this is connected to the US presidency? I'm struggling to see any relevance.

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Kristi - posted on 09/29/2012

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That makes a lot of sense Jaime. I didn't think about it like that. ; )



Thanks!

[deleted account]

lol this is the very reason i'm minoring in religious studies, this kind of thing fascinates me.

Kristi - posted on 09/22/2012

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Aleks--



What books were deleted or are missing? I also don't remember 20 years of Jesus's life being omitted. However, I'm definitely not a scholar by any means! I think it seems logical that Jesus was married but I don't think it would be a non-issue. Why would there be no mention of her behaviors or actions, same as if he had a child(ren). Forgive my ignorance, but who are his brothers and where are they mentioned in the bible?

Aleks - posted on 09/22/2012

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I believe that there is a very good chance that he was married (and hence also had children). The Bible as we know it has been thoroughly edited numerous times and there have been many books that were either (a) removed or (b) not included in the first place. Also, differing christian groups have different Bibles too - for example, there is some difference between Catholic and Orthodox and Baptist, etc etc. (Each of these would have some different books included or excluded).

I believe that, depending on the going policies and politics of Europe, and especially the going ones of the Catholic church (and sometimes others), at different times there were "edits" made to suit the circumstances or more closely, to suit the political gain and spin. With this in mind I believe that most (though I believe not all, if one knows the old style of written language can still find references to these and I have read magazine and newspaper articles alluding to these) traces of references to Jesus' wife and/or children may have been removed to suit the going policies of the church/country/kingdom, etc.

Also, if you remember there was something like 20yrs missing in (recorded) Jesus' life. However, the bible is more concerned with writings about his life as a (spiritual) teacher and his teachings, and like someone else has mentioned, having a wife and kids was almost a given and a non issue, so that writing it in "specifically" would seem odd. Although, its just as odd as there being no reference to this either, which includes casual mentions of his wife and/or possible children. If he really was unmarried that would have been a big deal, too in two ways - both to point out religiously/spiritually and as a deviation from the societal norm of the time. I also find it interesting that there is very little being said of his (probable) siblings as well. There are several, but not very many, references of Him having brothers (at least! I have never read a mention of a sister, but have seen references to "brother"). And again, this too is a bit of a contentious issue, though not as big as the wife and kids.



As for the Catholic church denouncing it? Well, actually they would probably have to, unless they have had their scholars thoroughly study this very small piece of material.

To be honest, I would like to believe this little piece myself, but for some reason I have a hard time believing that such a small piece of material can really harbour so much controversial and strong information on THE most important person in humanity's history, AND it was the only piece of material to survive from apparently huge amounts suspected to have been there, found at a location that was not expected to have this kinds of writings in the first place... It all just is a bit....... so low in odds of occurring, IMO.

Kristi - posted on 09/22/2012

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Jamie--



That was exactly my line of thinking. Personally, I don't see the relevance but I can see a "nutty" politician saying something like, Obama made this up to keep the women's and gay's votes, or something ridiculous like that or even better, Romney using it as a ploy to gain those same votes! WHACKADOODLES!



I do think this is interesting. I wonder why nothing of this was mentioned in the bible. It seems like it would be an extremely significant event.



America--



Do you have any proof that he did? Do you have a reference for your statement about there being a bloodline traced back to Jesus? Who did DNA testing back then? Just curious. I struggle with the thought that Jesus had a child(ren) and there be no mention of it in the bible.



I guess much of the belief or disbilief would depend on a person's faith or lack thereof. For others who don't believe in God it is probably of no consequence. Idk, that is why I asked for everybody's thoughts.

[deleted account]

Jakki, the US parties are almost always trying to tie religion into politics, despite the clear separation of church and state in the Constitution. if the idea that Jesus was married becomes mainstream, then i'm sure someone will try to say something about it, and then the candidate who might believe it was possible will be turned into a villain and blasphemer and whatnot.



it happens a lot. look at how the idea of equality has turned anyone who believes in it into someone who hates God and is disgusting and stupid stuff like that. women striving for equality are lesbians and blah.



Disclaimer >> don't quote me on that stuff, that's just my exaggerated view of how things are turning out with all the stupid stuff people have been saying lately about politics. i honestly don't know shit or care about religion in politics, seeing as how i think it should be separate and the idea that only a "Christian" president should run this "Christian" country, when there are soooo many other religions here, including the dreaded Islam, in this melting pot of a nation, is really dumb.

[deleted account]

Jesus was just as much man as he was God, and the idea of him being married doesn't freak me out at all. sounds logical to me. i mean, he was 33 when he died. people married a lot younger back then. why not Jesus?



the Catholic Church still believes his mother was a virgin after she had him and his several brothers and sisters, one of whom was of the 12 disciples. so...yeah. -shrug-

America3437 - posted on 09/20/2012

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I do believe Jesus had a wife and that Mary Magdalin(sp?) was just that as well as being one of his disciples. There is no proof that he didn't. In fact there is a blood line that is very rare and has been traced back to Jesus. How would this be possiable if he didn't marry and have child of his own. Just something I find interesting and would love to read the missing book of Mary from the bible. I have read some of it but there are pages missing!?!

Michele - posted on 09/20/2012

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It makes sense to me that Jesus had a wife, since weren't marriages arranged in those days? Being married would give him more insight into human relationships than hanging with 12 guys all the time.



I don't think it has much to do with the presidential election.

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