Celebrity Big Brother.....Stephen Baldwin

Sarah - posted on 01/11/2010 ( 27 moms have responded )

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Ok, so Stephen Baldwin is in this years CBB, and he's a VERY Christian, God fearing man.

Not that i have a problem with that........BUT......one thing he said got me thinking.....

This is pretty much what he said :



'If my family and i were on a bus and a man with a gun said to my daughter ''Say God doesn't exist, or i will shoot you'' and my daughter asked me ''what should i do?'' i would say to her, ''What have i taught you?'' and she would then look at the gunman and say ''God absolutely exists'' If she got shot, i would see her in Heaven'



To me, as a non Christian, i find that to be SCARY!!! If a gunman told my daughters to say ANYTHING, i don't care what, i would tell them to comply 100% to save their lives.



Thoughts??

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[deleted account]

Good point. And I couldn't sleep over the fact that I didn't even think of that to begin with. Hence the reason I am typing this at 1:30 am. Of course I would fight like (pardon me) HELL to save my daughter.

Another thing that kept me up...Am I supposed to change my entire set of beliefs and way of life just because somebody someday might threaten to take my daughter's life? Chances are that will not happen.

And Jo, you are right, a 16-year-old has had time to question the faith. I don't expect my 20 month old to make that kind of decision right now, obviously. What is the appropriate age? Don't have an answer to that one. I do know that at age 5, my own faith was as real to me as it is to this day. Will I expect my own daughter to make that decision at 5? No, it is different for everyone. And it will not be forced upon her.

Dana, you are right also. But it is humans that put a degree on the sinfullness (if you will) of a sin. To God, a sin is a sin is a sin. Murder is equal to lying, etc. in God's eyes.

Okay, sorry guys, I know I said I would "leave it at that" and I didn't just leave it. Religion always tends to get people fired up. And it wouldn't be a good debate without one crazy person disagreeing with everyone else. =)

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Sarah - posted on 01/12/2010

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I want to thank Sara for her comments! Interesting to see 'the other side' of it all.

Personally, i will never understand having THAT much faith in God, i mean, he MIGHT not exist! Full respect for those who do have faith, but i would need a crap load more evidence before i believed enough to risk my childs life.

Anyway, i thought it was an interesting little scenario! (tho highly unlikely!!)

?? - posted on 01/12/2010

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I agree with that 100% Sara. I have absolutely no doubt that you, or anyone of faith for that matter, wants their child to be shot in the head. I just seriously doubt, as a parent, knowing it's my life's reason to protect that little person - if I couldn't physically take away that danger... it's my responsibility to guide him to make sure his life doesn't come into danger.

And I guess I hold every parent to that same standard. God or no God, it's my opinion that it's every single parents meaning in life to make sure they do everything in their worldly power so that their children get from day 1 to a ripe old age where our body ends itself in [as much of] 1 piece as possible - and if saying a couple words is all that really stands in the way of that happening - then saying those words is what needs to be said.

[deleted account]

Thanks Jo. I don't expect people to agree with me, but I appreciate the respect. And I appreciate your perspective as well. I think we can all agree that what we really want is the best for our children.

Iris - posted on 01/12/2010

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To be completely honest, and I really don't mean this with any disrespect to anyone of faith, I think that if any parent was standing there, unrestrained, maybe held back at the idea of a gun present, and aimed at your childs head and the gunman said "Say god doesn't exist, or I will shoot you" - your child turns to you and says - "Mommy what do I say?" - I don't think any parent would say "What have I taught you?"



I think a parent would say "TELL HIM WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR - HE'S GOING TO KILL YOU" in the heat of the moment ..... I don't think you would say "Tell him that God exists honey, I've taught you that God is real." or anything along those lines -- I think the parental protectiveness would speak up long before faith ever would.



But that's coming from someone who may not have any believe in God but a firm belief in being a parent and wanting to protect my child from any harm - inflicted by anyone - including myself.


Exactly!

Either way, if God exists or not, I'd be the one to blame. And I'd be willing to take that chance. And if he exists, I believe that God would forgive me.

?? - posted on 01/12/2010

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I appreciate your perspective as well Sara, I don't agree with it and I can't relate to it in any way shape or form but I do understand that it is your own.



While I think it is reckless and dangerous to think the way Mr Baldwin and yourself do, I also don't think that this particular hypothetical situation is something to be taken seriously lol like you said, the chances of this happening is so highly unlikely.



To be completely honest, and I really don't mean this with any disrespect to anyone of faith, I think that if any parent was standing there, unrestrained, maybe held back at the idea of a gun present, and aimed at your childs head and the gunman said "Say god doesn't exist, or I will shoot you" - your child turns to you and says - "Mommy what do I say?" - I don't think any parent would say "What have I taught you?" or anything really even remotely like that...



I honestly think a parent would say "TELL HIM WHAT HE WANTS TO HEAR - HE'S GOING TO KILL YOU" in the heat of the moment ..... I don't think you would say "Tell him that God exists honey, I've taught you that God is real." or anything along those lines -- I think the parental protectiveness would speak up long before faith ever would.



But that's coming from someone who may not have any believe in God but a firm belief in being a parent and wanting to protect my child from any harm - inflicted by anyone - including myself.

[deleted account]

Thanks Esther. By the way, I really like your name. I'm considering "Esther" if we have another girl. Not on topic...but it is like 2 am.

Esther - posted on 01/11/2010

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Sara - I appreciate your perspective. Can't relate to it, but I do appreciate you sharing it with us.

?? - posted on 01/11/2010

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That was my initial thought too Jenn, I'm hoping that like... he is meaning that... EVERYONE ELSE is tied up and unable to jump the guy, take the bullet themselves... die trying... etc etc etc and that there is absolutely NO possible way of doing anything to save the kid first.

Dana - posted on 01/11/2010

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Well, Jenn...he's obviously tied down, or dare I say tied to a cross. Okay I'm burning in hell now....

~Jennifer - posted on 01/11/2010

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.....I think that everyone's overlooking the obvious fact of him not saying "I'd do anything I had to to get that gun away from my daughter rather than telling her to defy the gunman and die."



WTF, people? You're just gonna hand your kid to the gunman because you taught her to think that way?

How about jump in front of the bullet and take the guy out yourself.

Great parenting there, Baldy.

[deleted account]

I knew that I would not get anywhere in the debate which is why my original post said, "I'll leave it at that." But just to clear up one thing. I never said my religious decisions were my daughter's. In fact I said the decision is totally up to her. Children do have a base to say if God exists or not. I made that decision as a child and have never looked back. In the Columbine shootings 10 years ago a 16 year old girl died because she said she believed in God. No one was standing over her making that decision for her. Faith matters in EVERY situation. It is the MOST IMPORTANT thing. For me and millions of Christians around the world anyway. And yes, Christians do sin. Never denied that either.

?? - posted on 01/11/2010

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But, on a serious note, Christians sin on a regular basis - and any Christian that says they don't sin is a liar, and that makes them a sinner anyways lol I would think that if ANY sin was worth committing, this sin would be like #1 on the list. The whole "It's a sin to deny God" argument is about as pointless as "the words have meaning" argument lol

Iris - posted on 01/11/2010

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It is also a sin to lie, cheat and steal yet many Christians do and expect to be forgiven. So if I and my children were Christians why shouldn't I expect God or Jesus to forgive my child for a "white lie" to save her own skin?

Dana - posted on 01/11/2010

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It is a sin to deny God, it's in the bible. That's how Christians feel, if you don't agree, then be glad you're not a Christian. lol ;P

?? - posted on 01/11/2010

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I'm not judging you or anyone for their religious beliefs - but your religious decisions are not your childrens religious decisions. And I think it is incredibly reckless of parents to take situations like this - and less extreme situations - and allow their religious beliefs and faith to be a decision maker for their children.

Their faith is not your decision.

And I'm not even thinking about the 'aftermath' of that decision. Whether you or God would 'forgive them'. I'm simply focusing on the fact that a child has absolutely no base to make a statement like "God does exist" or "God does not exist" and really know that it's the truth - so the words are pointless.

The ONLY thing that matters is doing whatever the hell you gotta do so that there isn't a bullet in your brain and that your child can continue to live, learn and love as every child deserves -- faith or not. Doesn't matter in this sitation. Survival is the only thing that matters in that situation.

?? - posted on 01/11/2010

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You say ultimately the decision is hers, but you also just said that you are raising her in your church - so you are imposing your religion on her.

He said "I would say to her, ''What have i taught you?'', that ultimately says that he expects her to say God exists because that's what he has taught her is truth - not what she has decided on her own. Basically telling her to tell this gunman she will kill herself for HIS religion.

If he/you said "What do you think sweetheart? Does God exist?" Then it would be up to her to decide that -- but children do not have enough knowledge to decide that. They are just trusting whatever their parents are teaching them... they don't have unlimited access to information to make a decision on their own merits. So essentially, you are imposing your religion on her.

[deleted account]

Jo, I am not imposing my religion on my daughter. I am raising her in my church, yes and teaching her what I believe, yes. But ultimately the decision is hers. I would not be angry with her if she chose to say the words that save her life. But words are not meaningless. I love my daughter with all my heart but God's kingdom is bigger than my life and hers. Will I put her in danger willingly? Of course not. I know most of you will not understand. I don't expect you to. I'm not judging your religious views and I wish you wouldn't judge me for mine. But the world doesn't work that way.

?? - posted on 01/11/2010

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I think that it's a very dangerous and scary idea...

Shame on the asshole holding the gun to a kids head.

Shame on anyone who would impose their faith/religion on a child in a situation that would make them lose their life so early over something as meaningless as a couple of words.

I think that attitude is unforgivable, reckless and dangerous.

[deleted account]

I don't mind answering questions, but I didn't want to "impose my religious views" on anyone. To answer you, no I do not. God is a forgiving God and I know He would forgive that. However, being a Christian is much bigger than your own life. Jesus gave His live to forgive our sins. I live my life to honor Him. I would be proud if my daughter didn't deny her faith in the midst of a life or death situation. Of course, I would be deeply saddened if she died. But I know that God always knows the bigger picture and there is purpose to everything, even tragedy.

Esther - posted on 01/11/2010

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I know you said you wanted to leave it at that, but I have to ask Sara: Do you really think that God would deny your (or Stephen Baldwin's) daughter access to heaven because, with a gun to her head, she said (did not mean or believe, just said) that she does not believe in God?

[deleted account]

As a Christian, I agree with him. I understand that non-Christians don't get it. Nothing I can say will make you understand. Understanding comes from the Holy Spririt. I don't hide my Christianity but I don't want to bombard others with it either so I'll just leave it at that.

Cathelijn - posted on 01/11/2010

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To be honest I think that you really can't say what you would do. Let be realistic somebody is holding a gun against your childs head. She doesn't want to go to heaven yet you don't want her to go to heaven yet. She us your child your flesh and blood!!

Who cares what she says its just words isn't it most important what you believe within yourself.

Sara - posted on 01/11/2010

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I think God would forgive you for saying he doesn't exist to save your own damn life! But I guess it's that whole "faith" thing that I personally don't get...if you really believe you'll see someone in heaven, ok, but I would rather my daughter say God doesn't exisit...it's a 50/50 chance she's right.

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