Child Free Community?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/20/2011 ( 35 moms have responded )

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I was driving up to my MILs for my older daughter's birthday after a night of dealing with the baby crying and the drunken neighbours getting louder and louder after 11pm (we called the landlord on that one) when instead of listening to music the DH and I stumbed upon a talk radio station and the guy was interveiwing 2 people over in Toronto who want to establish 4 blocks as a children free zone, make it law and be able to tell people they can't walk any where in the area with their children.



I couldn't find a link to the story, but I found one with a sound clip from the interveiw this past Saturday. http://www.cbc.ca/thisisthat/clips/2011/...



Just for everyone's information, this 4 block area would include a Supermarket along with resturaunts. These people were claiming that children's toys in other people's yards disrupted their sanctuary.



Anyway I'm wondering what the rest of you all think about this idea. Personally I live in an apartment complex at the moment. My husband and I are more annoyed with the college students who have loud parties and ignore the 11pm noise ordinance than anyone else's children.

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Tracey - posted on 09/21/2011

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Going down a dangerous road, If no kids becomes acceptable how long before no kids becomes no gays, no disabled, no religion etc?

Lady Heather - posted on 09/20/2011

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Good luck with that. I'm sure the supermarket will be perfectly happy to turn away a bunch of their customers for no good reason. HA.

Forget city blocks - can we just make an island somewhere for all these people? They can live in some loser commune where people have nothing better to do than complain about things that aren't real problems.

[deleted account]

My parents reside in a very large 55+ community, and while their community is rather lenient in terms of children visiting hours, other communities are not so much. If it is on private property, then it's private. Public tax paying streets, roads, facilities-well then that's another story.

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Jaime - posted on 09/22/2011

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Meggy, sorry to hear you're having a tough go right now. Stress sucks huge donkey balls! If you ever need to chat, I'm always around :)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/22/2011

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I'm on the other side of the country so honestly it wouldn't affect me unless my husband was hired by a company in Toronto (which I'd love because then I'd be a 3hr drive from my parents). More likely than not I'll end up in Vancouver next year where there may or my not be other people who feel the same way as they do in Liberty Village (anyone else appreciate the irony?)

I do get your point that a 4 block radius won't sheild them from the rest of a city- unless they plan on encasing the whole thing in a sound proof plastic dome which would be kinda cool. I'm currently living in a city 1/2 the size of Rochester and my hubby is from a town that would more than likely make up the entire 4 blocks these people want so to be fair 4 blocks does seem extreme to us even though it's undoable.

I'm not sure why we're arguing either- maybe lack of something better to do? (I have a lot of stress right now and already used up my kvetch time for today with my husband) You're right that the idea is riddiculous and since the with the 4 block radius they'd try to ban people from public sidewalks and a public grocery store it's not exactly doable.

I picture karma taking the affect of damaged birth control and this lady ending up with one of those I didn't know I was pregnant stories. It would just be fitting.

Jaime - posted on 09/22/2011

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Doesn't bother me at all...that's my point. And I agree that these people are being selfish and asinine, but that doesn't change the fact that they will try every angle to get what they want. My comment about the size of Toronto was actually to further your own point about how ridiculous it is to try and ban children from public places like sidewalks and grocery stores, etc. Toronto is an incredibly large city and their tiny four-block community isn't going to shelter them from the reality that is the rest of Toronto...I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say. I'm actually not sure why we're arguing...I guess I'm not worried about it because it IS ridiculous and would require a lot of planning and legal shennanigans. Either way, I still think karma will fuck with anyone that takes life too seriously :)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/22/2011

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Jaime, when did I say I was dictating what the discussion was about? All I stated was that no one else seems concerned about the size of Toronto except for you because you live there and that I don't believe that was wht the discussion was about.

Most posters seem to feel that these people are being selfish (from what I've read from the posts) As someone else posted, why stop at children? Next they'll ban dogs, then who knows what else.

It's Canada, they can claim that they want to have an entire town child free- they can also move to Nunavut and have that child free community due to population size if they wish. Most zoning laws seem to be the same as in the States. They can zone a private gated community to be adult only.

I'm sorry it bothers you that I don't agree with what these people are doing.

Jaime - posted on 09/22/2011

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Meggy, I don't believe the discussion is the size of Toronto either, but I wasn't aware that you were dictating the course of the discussion, so my bad. My opinion is that regardless of how much it irks you that these people have the audacity to ask for a private, child-free community, they're still going to try. The reality of the situation is that they are going to claim it is their 'right' to live in a child-free zone and any other civil rights jargon they can muster...but that doesn't mean it will happen for them. That's what I'm saying. It's possible, but not likely or probable. And if it ever does happen, it's 4 blocks in a city of millions...not exactly taking over the world.

Gina - posted on 09/22/2011

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What a empty life these people have.Not to want to see a child smile, hear their laughter as they play. Kids IMO make life worthwhile.Plus why do theses people think they have a right to tell families where to live?
I understand kids can be noisy and messy,but most kids are in their homes at night, they're not the ones partying half the night.
These people should all be shipped off to a deserted island where our kids can't see they grumpy faces.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/22/2011

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Jaime, I'm from Rochester, I lived 100km across the lake from Toronto. I've been there a few times before moving to Kelowna this year. Toronto was even my 1 lay over when I entered Canada from New York State. I'm well aware that aside from being one of the two temporary capitols of Canada before Queen Victoria decided that Ottawa should be the permanent capitol in the mid 1800's it's also Canada's largest city. They have 3 separate airports and a failed ferry terminal which was supposed to connect with the failed fast ferry in my home town of Rochester back in the early 2000's.

I don't believe the discussion is the size of the city of Toronto or the possibility or impossibility of passing such a law in the city of Toronto or the province of Ontario (although the province of Ontario managed to pass a ban on pit bulls which allowed the RCMP to confiscate and kill family pets back in 2005 I believe) The discussion is focusing more on 2 people who are so self absorbed they feel that other people's choices have affected their personal life and that they should have a final say over everything in their 'sanctuary' including the sidewalks and the grocery store.

Jaime - posted on 09/21/2011

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Have you been to Toronto Meggy? There are 3+ million people in that city...I promise you it'd be pretty hard for a group of people to establish a private community in a section of 4 blocks that wasn't tucked away from the chaos of children. My grandparents lived in Toronto and my dad grew up there...he had a patch...and I mean a patch of lawn which was basically just to prove to Torontonians that the colour green does still exist. It's not too terribly spacious.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/21/2011

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I'm doubting they really though the whole thing through. The way these two sounded on the radio Saturday they were just thinking of themselves and what they wanted for their 4 blocks of sanctuary (Which could just as easily be provided with some sound proof walls) than the affect it could have on the rest of the community.

All I know is later on in life if I ever move to Toronto I do not want these people as neighbours in a 10Km radius of myself. Because my family would most likely piss them off if they drove by my house and saw my hubby dressed up as the Master Cheif from Halo for Halloween.

Jaime - posted on 09/21/2011

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Some people are crotchety (no...I'm not spell checking crotchety! lol) douchebags...I don't really worry too much about these folks because Karma likes to fuck with anyone that is too uptight about life.

Stifler's - posted on 09/21/2011

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This is just fucking stupid when kids are banned then they will just end up banning something else that pisses them off like cars, dogs, cyclists, the mail man, vacuum cleaners and so on and so forth.

Jodi - posted on 09/21/2011

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All I can say is that I do NOT want to end up in a retirement village with any of these people because they are so far up their own arses, I don't think it would be at all enjoyable.

Quite honestly, I can understand small child free communities, but if it is a public area (ie a street, sidewalk, park), you can't just say, sorry you can't walk here.

I'm sorry my decision to have children changed your life. But who do you think will be wiping your arse, cleaning up your mess, feeding you, and looking after YOUR best interests when you are too old to take care of it yourself? Oh, that's right, the next generation who were CHILDREN once that you wanted nothing to do with. And you will now be the grumpy old man that they have to play rock, paper scissors for the loser to look after you today.

Jaime - posted on 09/21/2011

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I'm thinking that if an entire community of people wants a kid-free living environment, then they've already thought ahead about how to incorporate retail/grocery chains. And keeping in mind the mountains of legal work that would be involved (not to mention municipal and otherwise) in such a project, it's highly unlikely that this will ever happen...unless some rich billionaire decides to buy four city blocks and invite all his boring, childless friends to stay with him. In any case, it wouldn't bother me if there was a private, child-free community with child-free sidewalks and stores...I'll just go somewhere else in the city of 3 million people and shop and play.

Becky - posted on 09/21/2011

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I agree, Meggy. To establish their own private child-free community is one thing. But to declare an existing community, that includes services that are most likely used by families now, child-free, is asking a bit much, IMO! And what, so families who are living in those 4 blocks are going to have to sell their houses and move? I don't see how that would ever get past city council. If these people want a child-free community, they can either move to an already existing one or find a developer and some land and have one built. They should not be putting out families who already live in their community.
And yeah, soooo sorry my choices affect the lives of complete strangers to me. Boohoo for you. Mind your own business maybe and they won't have to!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/21/2011

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Jodi, you're right these people want no children at all to be allowed on their streets. They would like it to be a law that they can go up to a parent with children walking down their block and say: You can't be here with your child. Basically they feel they should own the sidewalks. But what about the streets? Are they going to run into traffic when they spot a car with a baby seat and a booster seat in there and tell them to turn around?



What really got me was the guy who was saying: ' You know how they say having a child changes your life. Well, you having a child changes MY life.' Really now? How does someone else having a child change your life? How self absorbed do you have to be to have other people's choices affect your life? Get over yourself man.



Again, I have no issue with adult only residence homes or small stretches of area. I worked for a lady who lived in a neighbourhood like that. But it was marked as private and the town didn't even plow the street- the company who owned the street (approximately 10 double residency homes) did maintenance. The town only took care of the mail and trash pick up. But there's no need to be so selfish where you take up 4 city blocks and cause an inconvieniance to other people.



Jaime, the grocery store they want to keep children out of may see it differently.

Jaime - posted on 09/21/2011

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I'm not bothered by the fact that there are some people that want an entire kid-free community (and I live 45 minutes from Toronto). Some people just don't like kids...it's not YOUR kid they don't like...they just don't want to deal with kids and if they'd rather be holed up in their own, private, boring community then so be it. My kid and many others will have every other block in the city-minus four to play and run and enjoy without the persnickety people complaining. I'm not seeing a downside to this arrangement :)

Jodi - posted on 09/21/2011

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LOL Michelle, I never realised I was almost at that step closer to a retirement village, LMAO!!!

But as far as I am aware, aren't those villages still allowed to have children visit? I'm getting the impression that they can't even walk their children in the area according to the OP.

Michelle - posted on 09/21/2011

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Here in Australia (well in Perth) we have some Lifestyle villages that are for over 45's and child free. They are little communities on their own and 1 step closer to a retirement village, then nursing home. If only we didn't have our daughter and I could send my husband there in a couple of years :-) lol.

If it was built like our Lifestyle villages then I don't see the problem but where there is normal housing that they want to change then I don't agree.

Mary - posted on 09/20/2011

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Some people are just unpleasant assholes. My next door neighbor is one of them. He is a rather obese man who is pushing 60, and we didn't get along well even before I had a child.

Since Molly has been old enough to be outside playing with others, my yard has become the neighborhood hotspot for all of the kids in my court, from ages 2-12 to play and hang out (even when we aren't here). A lot of it probably has to do with me doing various different crafts and such with them, from painting rocks to making slime. There are always balls, hula hoops, chalk, and an endless supply of sidewalk chalk on my porch that they know they can use at will.

This has really pissed my neighbor off. He doesn't like the "noise" of the kids playing, and he really hates them drawing with sidewalk chalk. Mind you - the asshole has never complained to me, the about this. Apparently, he has gone out and spoken to a few of the older kids about it (6-12)...but only at times when I am not out there. The kids are scared of him.

This really pissed me off when I heard about it...how dare an adult bully kids like this. I told two of the girls that I'm rather fond of to just walk away and come and get me the next time he did this, and bless them, they did.

I had more than a few words with him about bullying kids, and addressing any legitimate issue he had with either myself, or the parents of these kids. He was rather meek and submissive...and he hasn't had said boo to these kids in months.

Sal - posted on 09/20/2011

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hmmmm seems a touch wanky...but not everyone likes kids....good way to avoid all the tossers i probally get shitty with when they complain about kids being kids...if we could just put a big fence around it so they can't come into our happy noisey kid freindly world,

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/20/2011

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I'm with Rebecca, anyone want to take a trip to Toronto with their kids and a few neices and nephews?

Kellie - posted on 09/20/2011

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OMG LOL! "Disrupts their Sanctuary" hahahahahaha


Seriously...

Nope still laughing!

[deleted account]

I think we should create a pompous-ass-free zone in every city, with Ms. Phelps and Mr. North being tops on the list of pompous asses barred from being present in the area. Honestly, if I lived in this area, I would take my four kids for a walk in front of those assholes condo EVERY SINGLE DAY for the rest of their lives. If these people want a four-block area with no kids, they can buy out the entire four block area. Otherwise, shut the heck up.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/20/2011

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Laura, my brother and SIL were married at the Stratosphere. Best wedding pictures I've ever seen.



It's so true though it's the people who are between 18-35 who are the real issue not children. Most kids are in the house before dark and do their running about during daylight hours. I've had more noise ordinance issues with my college age neighbours than with my neighbours with children. I haven't had to call my landlady at 11:30 at night saying that any children are outside drinking yelling and playing loud music.



Honestly if children's toys in someone else's yard causes you stress and a feeling of loss to your sanctuary you need a meeting with your local shrink not a child free zone. If you have an issue with too many toys in the front yard, then talk to your neighbour, don't get all elitist on everyone. Finally if you ever did try to tell a parent that they couldn't walk on a public street with their child, your new issue would be with the parent not the child

Stifler's - posted on 09/20/2011

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LOL is all I can say. And I totally agree, it's mature aged hooligans around the corner who disrupt this neighbourhood with their loud music and burnouts not the kids who are home before dark and in bed.

Merry - posted on 09/20/2011

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I remember booking a hotel in Vegas for our wedding and the exclaliber wouldn't allow anyone under 21 to stay there! I wished we could have stayed there because I didn't really want to see tons of noisy kids on our honeymoon but we were 19 and 18 so it was not happening! The luxor was amazing though, quite the dream wedding I might say :)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/20/2011

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There are adult only apartments and town homes here in Kelowna and back in Rochester where I'm from (a 55 and over one in the town over from my parents is near a large mall/ shopping centre) As far as I know there are no actual restrictions on child visitors.

As for these mashungana (it's Yiddish and I can't spell it) people, Ontario is some kind of Super province- one of the largest in Canada. Maybe they can all move to a farm in a less populated area of the province and all do work from home instead? If they move far enough north, instead of children their new issue would be polar bears.

Becky - posted on 09/20/2011

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We have adults-only condominium and townhouse developments here and I don't have any problem with that. Although I don't think children are restricted from visiting at all, you just can't live there if you have kids. Most of them are for over 55's. But the idea of making entire city blocks child-free and not even allowing families to walk down them is utterly ridiculous! So if the supermarket on that block is the only one within walking distance of your house, you now have to get in your car or take the bus to go grocery shopping with your kids in tow? Yeah, sounds like a plan to me! (note the sarcasm!) Maybe these scrooges should just get their own island somewhere. Mind you, they are probably the alcoholic, obnoxious idiots we don't want anywhere near our children anyway!

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 09/20/2011

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If these people wanted to make a child free apartment building for professionals who don't plan on having children (and appearantly have no siblings who would give them neices and nephews) fine do it. But don't try to make 4 city blocks your entire sanctuary. Or tell me that there are 'some restuarants children just shouldn't go to.' When the lady said that my DH and I looked at each other and said: yes, those places are called pubs.

I have to wonder if those people feel the same way about their neices and nephews and what their relationships are with their families because of their selfish behaiviour

Merry - posted on 09/20/2011

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Maybe a child free nursing home would be fine for old folks who have no grandkids and want no kids around. But honestly what types of scrooges hate kids so much? Most people I know think kids are a joy to see!

Katherine - posted on 09/20/2011

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That is the most horrible thing I've ever heard. What are our children now dogs? I've never heard of this in my life. It disrupts their "sanctuary?", people have kids period. Are they supposed to move? What a bunch of assholes IMO. This really makes me mad.

Maybe we should make a 65+ free zone next.

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