Christmas is a pagan tradition

Krista - posted on 11/12/2010 ( 86 moms have responded )

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I just wanted to point out that Christmas in the sense that we know it is NOT about Jesus Christ, but about a pagan tradition adopted for that day. There have been findings that lead people to believe that Jesus was NOT born on Christmas. Please do not argue about the holiness and sacredness of Christmas and protest that the Christmas tree is a sign of Christianity. It is not.

That is all.

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Johnny - posted on 11/13/2010

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You see, I get rather pissy when people go on and on about how they hate being wished Happy Holidays rather than Merry Christmas. It's not just Christmas time. For some it's Hannukah, for others in some years it might be Ramadan, for some it's Kwanza, and for others its Winter Solstice or Saturnalia. Can you pick out a Christian just by looking at them? I can't. So I often use Happy Holidays unless I know the person. If I know that they celebrate Christmas, then I say that. Christians don't have some sort of ownership of greetings in the month of December! Some people don't celebrate anything except getting a few days off. So in their case, Happy "Holidays" is exceedingly accurate. Why do some (and not even close to many, just a few asses) have to get all self-absorbed about the importance of their particular holiday? I don't see Jewish people ranting about people who mistakenly wish them Merry Christmas.



And no, I don't want to see a nativity scene on the lawn of my fire hall. I pay taxes too and I'm not a Christian. Christian tax dollars aren't worth any more than other tax dollars.



Rant over. I like most of Cathy's posts about this topic. We can all share December. I'm an agnostic and I will be teaching my children the traditions and stories about the birth of Jesus just like I will be telling them about the origins of the Yule tree.

Rosie - posted on 11/13/2010

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Every year it annoys me when some "religious zealot" whines and moans about having to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas.-krista

i get annoyed when people are forced to say happy holidays! lol! i think people should say whatever the hell they want. why would it offend anyone to say merry christmas? what about that is offensive at all? i'm not christian either. i just don't get all the PC crap running wild. if someone wants to say happy hannukah (sorry i know i butchered that) to me, why on earth would i get offended just cause it's not my religion. IDK, i just don't get why anybody should be forced to say something that isn't natural to them-either way. :)

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Mary I agree with what your saying to a point, however, if a Jewish friend wished me a Happy Hannukah instead of a Happy Christmas I wouldn't be offended because THAT is what they celebrate and is what is important to them. They are wishing me a happy time, it irks me when people get offended because people wish them a happy time regardless of whether the religion is right or wrong they are wishing people a HAPPY time. It is all semantics and shouldn't be so important, Christians should by right be able to wish people a Merry Christmas, Jews Happy Hannukah, Pagans a Happy Yule Tide etc without people from other religions taking offence. I highly doubt (from reading your posts) that you would be offended had one of your Jewish friends wished you a happy Hannakah rather than Christmas likewise the opposite could be said. I agree with earlier comments that Happy Holidays is more abour commercial success rather than being rude to others and their religions.

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Many Christians (NOT Bible thumpers) are aware of how Christmas came to be, and that the actual date of Jesus' birth is unknown BUT they focus on their religion rather than others such as Paganism because that is the religion they choose to believe, so you can think they are getting their shit mixed up, but tha is not the case many (not all there are some ignorant people) are aware and just do not focus on it other aspects.

[deleted account]

25th December was chosen as the day to celebrate the birth of Christ because nobody knows his actual birthday and Christians wanted to celebrate it AND there was already Pagan celebrations around the 25th, so that date was chosen, due to it already having a party atmosphere. Yes it may have originally been a Pagan holiday (and still is) but it is widely recognised as a Christian day of celebration now. Suck it up, just because you choose not to believe it doesn't mean that those of us who do can't celebrate OUR religion on the day that has been chosen to celebrate it.

As for the happy holidays, we don't generally have that here we just wish everyone a Merry Christmas, as far as I'm aware I have never offended anyone with those few words, if I have they need to get a life I am wishing them happiness. Those who aren't Christians often still celebrate the day because for them it is a commercial holiday rather than a religious one. A day to be with family (or not - your choice) and have fun (that is mandatory lol).

The Christmas tree was first introduced into the UK by Prince Albert in Voctorian times, so to me it is not a symbol of Christianity anyway because our Christians managed without it for thousands of years. To me the star is the biggest symbol of Christianity at Christmas because it was the star that guided people to Jesus but that's just me, there are many others and I'm sure other people have a different view.

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Angel - posted on 11/23/2010

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This thread is a little old but I am posting anyway.

Christmas is a pagan tradition. Everything associated with christmas is also pagan. There is a video that explains everything revolving around christmas and how it came to be. I reserched this stuff because some of it is REALLY out there but what I found was pretty much right on with the video.

Check it out.

http://tellingthetruth.50webs.com/4-4.ht...

[deleted account]

People in shops often have corporate things they have to say, I know in the shop I worked in I wasn't supposed to apologise to people because that admitted fault on the companies behalf, so maybe Maria this company tells the staff they have to say Happy Holidays so as not to offend anyone and to get more business. I can't see how a generic greeting can be offensive, people are wishing you a HAPPY time regardless of the words that follow, they don't know you or what your beliefs are, you could be purchasing those items for another person or you could just be respecting others religions, so they cannot just assume anything.

Carol - posted on 11/16/2010

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Many Christian holidays are based on Pagans. Like Halloween. It isn't a demonic holiday at all, the pagans would use goards that had faces carved to scare away unwanted spirits, they dressed up so demons and ghost and evil things didn't know they where humans. Halloween was also a celebration for Harvest. But that dosent stop some people from not celebrating it. I just love it, how people will put a whole thing at how Halloween isnt Christian but then they will turn around and celebrate Christmas! I told my husband, since he refuses to let me celebrate halloween with our kids that we wont celebrate Christmas either, because it to is a Pagan holiday. He wasnt to fond of that so his mom said i could bring our kids over to her house since they have a party every year for Halloween to celebrate the harvest aspect and the candy companies :) I dont even know if people should say things like Happy Halloween, Merry Christmas, Happy Easter. Everything is dominated by material items its more like ' Happy Soon-to-be-going-to-the-dentist-day, Merry Buy-all-this-unneeded-stuffmas and Happy -stupid-bunny-didnt-place-enough-eggster

Johnny - posted on 11/15/2010

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I don't care what people wish me, I'm an agnostic, theoretically they could all apply. As I said, I stick with Happy Holidays if I don't know the person. Otherwise, I'm specific. I do like Seasons Greetings, but it sounds odd verbally somehow, it's better on paper.

Isobel - posted on 11/15/2010

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It does tick me off that Christians get pissed off that the whole world doesn't wish EVERYBODY a Merry Christmas. I don't hear many Jewish people complaining that people are forgetting THEIR holiday.

I don't see what the big deal is either way.

Don't get upset when people wish you a Happy Holiday, and I won't get upset when somebody wishes me a Merry Christmas.

Deal? Deal.

Stifler's - posted on 11/15/2010

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I don't think happy holidays or any of that is offensive. i think seasons greetings is much more lovely though.

[deleted account]

Marie, why should she have to wish you a Merry Christmas? Perhaps SHE isn't religious and/or doesn't celebrate Christmas. I don't understand how that is offensive? Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Season's Greetings etc. -- same shit, different pile!

Stifler's - posted on 11/15/2010

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I buy Santa cards because I'm cheap, doesn't mean I don't hate Santa with a passion.

Jodi - posted on 11/15/2010

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Maria, I have to say this. I celebrate Christmas in the sense of the spirit of giving, loving, family and togetherness. I am not catholic or even christian. BUT, I do buy cards for my very catholic family members that portray the nativity, virgin Mary, Baby Jesus etc etc to send to them. Would I be offended if someone in the checkout line assumed I was Catholic because I was purchasing those cards? No. But it's not really a safe assumption to make. Other times I buy Hannukah cards for the few Jewish friends, I'm not Jewish nor do I celebrate Hannukah (although I do have a menora...I think they're beautiful!). Just trying to put some light on that subject for you having been in the position of being a cashier.

[deleted account]

I always buy Christmas cards from Oxfam or Amnesty International or similar where the pictures are about the world we live in and the message is about peace. Or they're blank inside.

Maria - posted on 11/15/2010

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As a christian I find that saying Happy Holidays is a way of taking Christ out of Christmas. But I also live in a diverse community and I understand that there are many people who celebrate many different holidays where I live so in many circumstances it is more approrpiate to wish people "Happy Holidays" Where is bothers me most is when I am in a store buying Christmas cards with pictures of Jesus on them, Red an green wrapping paper and other items that could be for no other holiday that the cashier wishes me a "Happy Holidays" Good customer service is being observant so take the hint, and wish me a Merry Christmas. Finally it aggrevates me when people say it in church. If I see you in church on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day wish me a Merry Christmas.

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Bless her that is so cute.



Yes I can agree that it would be a bit odd if someone knew you were a Christian and wished you a happy... but it may simply be they were not thinking and just slipped out their customary greeting/ wishes. Don't get me wrong if I know someone doesn't celebrate Christmas I will just wish them happy time off but I don't think it's rude to say happy... whatever it may be :-)



Oh and happy birthday Mary's daughter for 2 days time :-)

Mary - posted on 11/15/2010

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No, Toni, I wouldn't be even remotely offended if someone I didn't know wished me happy whatever. I would simply smile and return the greeting. However, if it is someone I know, and they wished me Happy Kwanza, I might be a bit perplexed. Not offended, necessarily, but I'd probably think they were a little off their game that day. It's sort of akin to me walking around all day on September 30th, and wishing everyone I see "Happy Birthday". I doubt I'd offend anyone, but I'm sure more than one person would think me a bit odd for assuming that since it was MY birthday, it must be everyone else's as well. (Acutally, my 2 y/o is currently saying this to everyone we see, since her bday is in 2 days!).

Mary - posted on 11/15/2010

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I agree with the bulk of Carol's post. The month of December is a time when many faiths celebrate something important to them. No one owns it. It is (to me) selfish and petty to be offended by someone wishing you "Happy Holidays" instead of Merry Christmas.

I guess I was lucky. Although I was raised in a devoutly Catholic household, I was fortunate to grow up in a neighborhood that was over 50% Jewish. From an early age, I was taught that not everyone believes in the same thing, and that it was important to be respectful of other's beliefs. Because so many of the children I played with did not celebrate Christmas, my mother felt it was important for us to learn about what they did celebrate. (as a child, I was most concerned about my friends not being visited by Santa - oh, the horror!! - but Hannukah, and 8 days of presents, seemed to balance it out.) I'm glad this awareness of other faiths was introduced to me at a young age; I'm sure it helped make me a more open-minded adult.

"Happy Holidays" was pretty much the standard greeting in public places like the grocery store, bank or post office in my area when I was growing up because it was an interfaith area. No one was offended by it. I was taught to say this unless I KNEW which holiday that person celebrated. Even at the age of seven, it made perfect sense to me that I would say Merry Christmas to my classmates in the Catholic School I attended, Happy Hannukah to my neighbors, and Happy holidays to the kid I didn't know that well at the community playground. It took nothing away from my holiday spirit to be respectful of those around me.

Thank you, Mom, for truly understanding not only the spirit of the holiday season, but for demonstrating what it is to truly be a "good" Christian.

Sherri - posted on 11/14/2010

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To my family Christmas is all about Jesus. We celebrate his birthday. We go to Christmas Eve Mass and we only say Merry Christmas to others. We do celebrate it with 1 gift for each child from Santa but only one that they asked for by writing a letter to Santa. However, they know the presents under the tree signify birthday presents for Jesus.

Kayle - posted on 11/14/2010

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In my opinion what makes christmas christmas...has nothing to do with any sort of religion to me it's about Family! =)

Leah - posted on 11/13/2010

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Ok sorry it took me so long, but here is part of the documentary I was talking about; The Sun of God

Kate CP - posted on 11/13/2010

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Jaime: According to Wiki (you know...the only source out there) Saturnalia was about role reversals and feasts and having fun. Kind of like Mardi Gras.

[deleted account]

Oh, and I probably will continue to say Merry Christmas because I tend to think of Happy Holidays as a term for lying on a warm beach somewhere with my bucket and spade.

[deleted account]

I'm Alison P. I've been a meber of this community for some time, but my old CoM account got shut down because I opened a new facebook account. I was having a bit of a rest from CoM, but you know I can't resist these religious debates.

The OP is quite correct. Christmas has it's origin in pagan traditions. The bible doesn't contain a list of rules on what the Christian can and can't celebrate providing it is the creator God that is celebrated and not other things. We are not prohibited from all pagan celebrations for this reason and each Christian can use their liberty to make these decisions based on their personal conscience.

People are also correct that the true birth of Christ could have been anywhere between September and January. We don't celebrate Jesus' birthday at Christmas, we celebrate the fact that he had a human birth.

Santa is based on a number of stories about acts of charity. The immage of flying raindeer came along later. Some Christians don't do santa because of the commercial side that has taken over. We do the immage of Santa in the red suit to represent these stories and promote charitable giving. I also do the makebelieve stories for fun, but I don't pretend they are true. The flying raindeer and the idea of a fat bloke forcing himself down our air vent is just for fun, but I'm honest about the fact that it's a storey.

I don't just celebrate the fact that Jesus came into the world at Christmas. I celebrate it throughout the year. I even listen to Christmas carols in the summer because it's a good way to worship Christ.

[deleted account]

I like presents lots. presents are fun to give and get. :) the whole christian aspect kinda...idk. the kids don't care, you know. not a bit :P i know i didn't. didn't even believe in santa xD yes yes, i'm horrible...

[deleted account]

Santa comes through the keyhole when you don't have a chimney. Or makes a magic chimney appear somewhere in the house. That's what my hubby's mom used to tell him.

Somebody look up Saturnalia, a Roman festival ending on December 25th, if you haven't already. It's a pretty gruesome holiday and makes me wonder what ancient Christians were thinking when they said "Ooh! Let's make this Jesus' birthday and tell the Romans they can still do what they want as long as they celebrate Jesus too!"

Just about every nationalized holiday is Pagan, with some Christian tweaks to make them "acceptable."

[deleted account]

To be honest I'm not in the best of moods either. To me it just seems that the majority of people knew some aspects of the "traditional" Christmas were not Christian related...I'm not going to lose sleep over this either lol. But to me it's not a debate...it is true that there are Christian and Pagan aspects.

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How is it going round and round in circles exactly Jennifer?

I may lose sleep over it Dana...it's gonna haunt my dreams OMG Christmas was NOT a Christian celebration...until they made it one, they STOLE it from the pagans! Ok maybe maybe I will sleep LMAO:-P

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At the end of the day I don't think anyone is going to lose sleep over it, Jennifer, but this is a debate so we're debating.

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Who really cares what makes Christmas, or who made the traditions. I celebrate Christmas in mine way and others do it their way.



I really don't mean that in a natsy way but the conversation is just going round and round in circles.

[deleted account]

Krista I'm just being argumentative I have been on bed rest ALLLLLLLLLLLL day and I'm BORED. We're saying the same thing, I'm just pointing out that many Christians realise that it is not JUST about Christianity and just don't pay as much attention to the other religions, afterall we all pick and choose what we celebrate, whether that be Jesus or Presents or whatever. Oh and I LURVE getting prezzies, but I LOVE giving them more!

[deleted account]

Of course, i agree and i do respect what You are saying Krista.:-)



Also, who doesnt like getting presents but wait ,dont forget its about giving too.. lol.

Krista - posted on 11/13/2010

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Guys... the whole point of this thread was to bring to light the fact that Christmas is NOT just a Christian tradition, but is in fact tied up in so many different religions and beliefs. The point was not to tell you WHAT to believe, but that there are other beliefs. And, admittedly, it was to stave off the bible thumpers who would argue that Christmas is JUST about Christianity. The holidays are named the holidays because so many different things abound at this time.

[deleted account]

Well then its a damn good pagan tradition if you ask me.

I dont focus to much on the whole religious side of it.:-)

Krista - posted on 11/13/2010

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Whoa now... where did I ever say that I was against Christmas as a day of worship? I didn't say it. I teach my children about Jesus and the story of his "birth" (in quotations because no one knows the true story). What I'M saying is that Christmas is largely based these days upon the pagan tradition and bible thumpers get their shit mixed up. I don't get upset at people saying Merry Christmas, nor Happy Kwanzaa or Happy Channukah.

[deleted account]

Thanks for that info =] Generally most people saying Merry Christmas though as the majority of people celebrate it regardless of their religion =] My mam's neighbours are Sikh and they still have Christmas.

Desiree - posted on 11/13/2010

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Here we go again. Yes A good many of us know that Christmas is actually a pagan holiday, so are a good many others and the reason for that is that The Christians adopted the holiday as a way to encourage the pagans to cross to their way of thinking. So is the feast of Easter and there are others.

Rosie - posted on 11/13/2010

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i don't think that's why they were having the cow but i just don't see why anybody would be questioning the commitment and effectiveness of a firestation by it's christmas decorations. wouldn't it be full of christians whether it had a cross on the top or not?

Isobel - posted on 11/13/2010

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although, IF I were a Muslim, living in a neighbourhood where they are particularly discriminated against...I MIGHT wonder if a "Christian" fire station would be rushing to help a "terrorist muslim"...just sayin

Isobel - posted on 11/13/2010

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See, but that's the problem ONE asshole in a country of 300 million people makes an idiot stink about a cross...and it turns into a war against Christianity...ugh it makes me crazy!

I can't wait for the Christmas season to ramp up...the welcome page is always so much fun once the CHRISTmas people come out to play ;P

Rosie - posted on 11/13/2010

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there was a debate on here last year about a cross being on a firestation in some town, USA. can't remember where, somehwere in oregon is what comes to my mind, although i could be just pulling stuff out of my ass, IDK.

JuLeah - posted on 11/13/2010

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:) Jesus is thought to have been born in the spring time.
Check out information on The Council of Nicea
and the role Constantine played in creating many of the ideas we often fight over today.

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