Circumsicion causing marriage break down.

Tara - posted on 08/29/2011 ( 65 moms have responded )

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A friend of my sil's had her first child last month. Throughout her pregnancy she said she would have him circ'd. When he was born however she didn't want to, but had it done on the insistence of her hubby. She is now royally pissed at him. The baby had a bunch of problems, the incision became infected, he had massive swelling, was admitted into the hospital and put on IV antibiotics, they had to "re-do" a part of it etc. etc.

She has now said she "doesn't think she can ever forgive him" for forcing her to have her son circ''d and can't stop blaming him for maiming their child etc. etc.

I think her anger is a little misplaced and that had the procedure worked out perfectly she wouldn't feel this way. However on that note, I think she should have had enough balls to stand up and say "he's perfect just the way he is".

Thoughts?

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Isobel - posted on 08/29/2011

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You think it's sad that I won't have more children until the matter is settled, and I'm sad that most parents don't take it as seriously as they should.

Mary - posted on 09/01/2011

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I don't think the "real" issue here is about circumcision at all - it is, at it's essence, about the nature of their relationship.

This story could just as easily have been that the father was adamant that his son have his own dog. The mother is
reluctant, fearing that a large puppy may be too rough and unpredictable around a small child, and the father is insistent that "I grew up with a dog, and so will my boy". She acquiesces, and they get a puppy. Within a few days, the puppy is running through the house, and (accidentally) knocks the boy down the stairs, causing injury that requires medical attention. The mother blames the father for the boy's injury, because he was the one who insisted they get a dog.

Is he really solely to blame for the child's injury? Yes, he was the one that wanted the dog (or circ). But I think, if you had a solid relationship with your partner, you would be able to look beyond the "I told you so" mentality, and make your peace with it.

This girl is letting her anger consume her, and is now hellbent on punishing the father for his choice. My guess is, she feels a fair amount of guilt herself, and rather than deal with it, she is deflecting those feelings by placing any and all blame on him.

Kate CP - posted on 08/29/2011

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Speaking as a woman who stood up to her husband and said flat out "It's not happening. He's NOT going to be circumcised" I have to say that if she had stuck to her guns she wouldn't be in this position. She is feeling guilty as hell for what happened and she's trying to put it on her husband to make herself feel better. It took two people to make this choice for that poor baby: one to cave in, and one to insist it get done. She needs to own it, too.

Ez - posted on 08/29/2011

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Sherri, she's perfectly entitled to change her mind. It doesn't matter what her intentions were before. Once she changed her mind and revoked her consent, her husband and the hospital should have listened to her. The reasons don't matter.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/29/2011

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Hmmmmmm......situations like this do not make or break a marriage....it would be kinda like "the last straw" thing. I am prone to think other issues are in the marriage, and this just pushed everything to far. Being a new mommy is hard, and when he heals....if their marriage is strong, everything SHOULD be fine. She should be mad at the doctor who performed a botched circumcision. Not her husband.

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Tara - posted on 09/01/2011

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I pretty sure it was after he was born but before the procedure when the doctors and nurses "ganged up on him" they had already decided during pregnancy to have him done. She changed her mind last minute. The doctors and nurses gave him the info he already had, the stats, the reasons people choose not to etc. etc. he stood his ground as he had during the pregnancy, during which she was completely on board with the decision to have him circ'd.
I like Mary's analogy and I agree wholeheartedly. To me it's easy to see her own guilt is clouding her feelings right now, and Dana is right, they are immature and both need to grow up a bit and take responsibility for their relationship.

Dana - posted on 09/01/2011

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Yes, that may be the case. Which is why I think they're both being immature.

Dana - posted on 09/01/2011

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Yeah, he should be admitting that it was a mistake. As far as accusing her of being irrational...eh, she kind of sounds like she is being irrational about her reaction towards him.

He's then going to overlay the whole issue with the term of irrational. That's why I said before, too many emotions involved in this one and not enough maturity from either side.

Dana - posted on 09/01/2011

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I really don't see how the doctor is to blame here. She signed the papers to have it done when she was admitted, before she even had the baby. And from her husband's mouth: He said "He's fine, I don't know why she freaked out like that, she actually begged me not to do it.And then the doctor and nurse ganged up on me too. "



So clearly at some point before the birth (most likely at an dr's visit - maybe Tara can clear that up), the doctors had talked to him, for her. They can't do much more than that. You can't force a parent to do what you want.



To me, the way this reads is, she didn't want to do it, had the doctors and nurses talk to her husband, he still didn't agree, she signed the papers when she got to the hospital, it was done, it got messed up, NOW she decides to be pissed.



The only place the blame lies is on the parents, although she still has no right to place so much blame on the father.

Minnie - posted on 08/31/2011

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Clearly that $400 was just tooooo important. Gotta get it now, or they might just not do it later!

Krista - posted on 08/31/2011

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I agree with you, Rebecca. To me, an ethical doctor would have said, "You're not agreeing on this right now, so let's not do anything irrevocable. Go home. Think about it. If you can both come to an agreement on getting this done, then just call the office and we'll make an appointment."

Merry - posted on 08/31/2011

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Well her situation is very similar to mine, without the marital issues afterwords, so all my responses were sort of from this story and also from my own experience which was so similar. I don't think I was stupid, I feel stupid, but I was really just not well educated, and ill-informed, as well as 'lied' to. I was told complications were rare, yet when my son had a complication I was told yeah this is a common side effect.
I felt lied to so I assume she did too. If she or I had known the likelihood of our sons being so injured by this proceedure I know I wouldn't have allowed it and I doubt she would have either. We were both probably just convinced into it by, what feels like, lying.

[deleted account]

What I think is sad is that the doctors performed the circ even though there it was a clear point of contention between the parents. To me, the doctors should have followed the rule of "when in doubt, do nothing" and sent the couple home and told them to talk about it. I think it could have resolved some hard feelings all around.

I think everyone hoping things will be "normal" is misplaced -- that baby will never be "normal" because his "normal" body has been altered and that is what she is going to see everytime she looks at him. I think the only way this relationship could be saved is if the father takes ownership of the fact that (in her opinion) he pressed her into doing something that was not in the best interests of their son. If he can't do that, I doubt this relationship can be fixed.

Dana - posted on 08/31/2011

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I missed your response before, Laura. I don't think it's naive of her, I do think it was stupid of her. She should not have thought that her husband knew what was best or all the outcomes, obviously.

Sherri - posted on 08/31/2011

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This is sooo sad for the baby and my heart breaks for the father being denied his child too.

Dana - posted on 08/31/2011

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Jeez, how unfortunate for the baby. There are way too many emotions mixed up in this one and not enough of the baby mixed up in it.

Tara - posted on 08/31/2011

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Update:
She moved out temporarily because every time she changes his diaper and sees his black and blue penis she gets angrier and angrier at him.
Apparently she is now being treated for depression too because she feels so guilty and horrible about how this turned out.
They have only been together for just over a year, this baby was not planned and they got married as soon as they knew she was expecting. So I really don't see this going too well for them. :(

Her anger is really strong right now, she doesn't want him to see the baby, her mind set is "you hurt him, you don't care about him".

I think she is taking this too far, her love for her baby has clouded her love for her hubby.
She said she just needs time to see how it heals and to be with the baby alone right now until he is "normal" and then she might be able to forgive her hubby.

He is pissed right off. Rightfully so. He has threatened court action if she doesn't let him see the baby. Everyone has tried talking to her, tried telling her what is done is done and nothing more can be done about it.
He's not a really bad guy, but a guys guy all the same. And from the get go, the boy was going to look like him and that was that.

I will keep you all posted as the drama unfolds.

Merry - posted on 08/30/2011

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Ok I'll admit my own stupidity but being lied to doesn't mean you're stupi- naive, trusting, maybe. But not always stupid.

Merry - posted on 08/30/2011

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She's mad at herself for failing to protect her baby and she's mad at her husband for lying to her. I'm sure at one point, or many points, he reassured her, it will be fine, it's for his own good, it will barely hurt him. She agreed to wha t she was probably told was a simple easy painless quick proceedure with barely any risks or side effects. So she feels lied to! Her baby is not better off it wasn't simple easy with no risks.
She feels guilty and lied to.
She knew deep down it was wrong but she let herself be convinced because her husband was so adamant.
It's like someone babysitting your kid, they assure you they're trained and equipped to handle it etc, you have doubts but they reassure you it's fine, don't worry, etc. Then you come home and they've neglected your kid and now your kid is hurt and in pain and you blame the babysitter but also yourself for allowing it.
I think as moms it's our number one purpose to keep harm from our children and if any harm falls on them we feel it's our fault, even if it's someone else's fault we still blame ourself. And if we can't own up to the guilt we lay it all on someone else because it's too painful to admit we hurt our child.


This is exactly exactly how I feel. Trust me I know what she's going through and it isn't pretty.

Suzie - posted on 08/29/2011

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I have been in her shoes. the anger gose away when you start to feel human agin. most circ that have this happen is not the doctors fault its a little of everybodys including mommy My husband and his mom pushed me in to alowing it to be done it healed wrong which alowed for a pocket to form and thus alowing it to get durty had to take him back in to have it redone i was mad at the world but he is a year old and he is fine. she needs time and space and someone to just let her talk.

Lacye - posted on 08/29/2011

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If I felt that strongly about something, it would be going my way, not his. If I did cave in, yeah I would be pissed but it would be more at myself than at him. I was the one that allowed him to talk me into it. It was my decision to allow it to happen when I could have prevented it.

Charlie - posted on 08/29/2011

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Well to be honest she could have stopped it if she wanted to bad enough ..so it's not entirely his fault.

I dont see this ending well for them , I can understand her anger but she didnt stand her ground on the decision and having a dick doesnt give you permission to soley make that decision IMO , two parents made a child , two parents have a say.

Krista - posted on 08/29/2011

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Exactly. And the more I hear of the husband, the more I think he was a douche.

He said "He's fine, I don't know why she freaked out like that, she actually begged me not to do it.And then the doctor and nurse ganged up on me too. He'll be fine once he grows up it will look more normal I think".

I mean, for pete's sake, dude. Your wife just gave birth. If she's that damned upset that she's BEGGING you, then why not say, "Okay. Let's talk this over. We don't have to have it done today. We'll wait until we're home and things are a bit more settled and then we'll figure it out." That's what a decent guy would have done. He just ignored her upset and bullied her.

So yes, ultimately, she IS responsible for caving and for agreeing to it. But that doesn't make her husband any less of a bullying asshat.

Dana - posted on 08/29/2011

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Yes, I don't think one of the parents has more say over the other. Both should be respectful and mature enough to listen to the other side and compromise.

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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Any major decisions are a couples decisions to make together. It is not my husbands fault he can't carry or birth a baby. He still has equal rights when it comes to anything regarding our children just as I do. I always take his opinions and feelings on anything regarding our children as much into consideration as I do my own.

If my husband wanted a circumcision and I didn't neither of us are right or wrong but discussions would have to be had well before the birth and a final decision made. Whether it be through research, discussions, conversations with the doctor etc. However, it would not be okay to walk in to the hospital without a plan already in place.

These are things that really need to hashed out well before there is a planned pregnancy because if not it isn't fair to either husband or wife. You need to start parenthood on a united front.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/29/2011

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Yes, I make most decisions, but that is by default. I stay with the kids all the time, but if a problem arises, or I have had a tough day, I look to my husband to help me, and to give me advise on different things to try. When he is with the kids, he follows my schedule that I put them on, but that is to make sure they stay on the schedule. My husband trusts my mothering skills, but I also trust his fathering skills. If we are doing something the other one does not like, or handles something differently, we discuss it.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/29/2011

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Well, I definitely think parenting should be on both the parents shoulders. I am a sahm, but all major decisions are for both of us to make.

Stifler's - posted on 08/29/2011

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I think that she needs to put the foot down. If one doesn't want to have it done it shouldn't get done. I am the boss when it comes to the wellbeing of our kids since I gave up my career to have them and stay home and look after them my husband would not be telling me that our son will be getting circumcised if I didn't want him to.

Iris - posted on 08/29/2011

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She has a right to change her mind. She is probably resentful because she had second thoughts and wanted to change her first decision. That said, she changed it back. When things went wrong, she probably felt regretful about it and really, I don't blame her. It's her baby and she caved under pressure. Doesn't make it right, but I can understand her frustration.
She should be pissed at the doctors but she also caved under her husbands pressure. So the decision was theirs united in the end.

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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Never did I say she wasn't all I said Erin is she was never pressured originally to sign the paperwork.

The only part I disagree with what you have said is her husband had no reason to back down on his views either. Because you can easily turn that around and say she should have respected his wishes without question.

Tanya - posted on 08/29/2011

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I think she's mad at herself.

My ex and I didn't agree about it. I told him, flat out, that there was no way I could consent to a medical procedure being performed on my baby without a medical reason. I also told him I wouldn't drive them to another city to have it done (the only doctor who does it in my city isn't very nice, and wouldn't be going near my child).

In the end, he agreed not to have it done because he thinks it should be done right at birth, and it would have probably been at least a couple of weeks before we could get him in to have it done.

This was a HUGE source of stress for us, and we were really hoping for a girl so that we wouldn't have to deal with it! That was one of the main reasons we chose to find out the sex of the baby at our anatomy scan.

Lissa - posted on 08/29/2011

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It is a very sad situation, I think her husband was an ass for bullying and pressuring her. That said nobody forced her, she may have been bullied in to it but she should have stuck up for her child. I think she is deflecting her anger, knowing what she should have done, then it going horribly wrong she is feeling guilty.

Ez - posted on 08/29/2011

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Ugh.. what an awful situation.

I think she's deflecting her anger to her husband. Get some cahonies and say no! My Mum did it 27 years ago and my brother remained intact.

If the last version of events is accurate, everyone had a part to play in this. The wife for caving to her husband's demands, the husband for not respecting his wife enough to listen to her, and the doctors/nurses for pressuring them.

Like Laura, circumcision is a deal-breaker for me. If he couldn't agree to leave any prospective sons intact, there would be no babies. If it was a surprise baby, I would never consent to it. What this woman is going through is a mother's worst nightmare. She knowingly exposed her baby to risk of harm, and now he is sick and injured. Very sad.

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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She wasn't ganged up on Marina she asked to have him circumcised then changed her mind AFTER he was born.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/29/2011

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To gang up on a mother in labor, or about to be induced, or even for a scheduled c section. They should all be ashamed of themselves, but she cannot blame him for her signing the papers.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/29/2011

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That is really unusual to have the papers signed before the baby is even born. Very odd. Where was this?

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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No Laura I thought it was sad that you guys couldn't come to a compromise and the end result was no more children. So you misunderstood my comment.



Also all that matters is if both parents agree. It has nothing to do with taking it seriously, because both sides of the debate take it VERY seriously.

Tara - posted on 08/29/2011

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@Marina,
I do know how it went down, I heard it from the horses mouth herself so to speak. As well just a few minutes ago I heard it from her hubby as he called to ask me if I had any tempra for the baby as he is running a bit of a fever, I told him not to give a one month old tempra and take him to the doctor and asked how the baby was now. He said "He's fine, I don't know why she freaked out like that, she actually begged me not to do it.And then the doctor and nurse ganged up on me too. He'll be fine once he grows up it will look more normal I think". I couldn't believe the way he said it like that.
Either way I think they are both to blame, him for bullying her, her for letting him do it and not doing enough to educate themselves prior to his birth. And yes she signed the papers, when they were admitted Marina, when they got to the hospital before his birth, it was a friday and the paper work had to be done before monday when they doctor would perform the procedure.
So yes she signed them, before she saw his perfect little piece of manhood...

Minnie - posted on 08/29/2011

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I would be of the same mindframe as you, Laura, if we wanted a third child and my husband wanted a son circumcised. It's not a trifling thing- parents are supposed to protect their children.

That takes a lot of determination to come to a decision like that. It's very encouraging, but unfortunate that things have to be that way. Hopefully he can learn and grow.

Lady Heather - posted on 08/29/2011

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In this case I think you really just have to do what you can to get over it. They are already married and it's not worth ruining the kid's family over. That won't make his life better.

I'm thinking maybe circumcision has to be added to list of things you discuss before marriage. ha. People have such strong feelings about it. I know I would be uncomfortable if my husband and I were not on the same page about it.

Dana - posted on 08/29/2011

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I think she's totally being lame to blame this on her husband and saying she doesn't know if she can forgive him. Grow a pair and accept responsibility. You can't go through life blaming each other when something happens to your child - what kind of marriage would that be?

[deleted account]

i think you are right that if it had all worked out she wouldn't be mad like this. it's not something that you can compromise on though, so if she agreed to get it done then she should just get over the decision and live with it

Sherri - posted on 08/29/2011

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They only one to blame if she has an issue is herself. She wanted it all along and then last minute changed her mind but still went along with it anyways. Sorry honey blame yourself and get over it. No one else here is at fault in this one.

@Laura that is incredibly sad.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 08/29/2011

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Well, no one knows for sure how it all went down, unless you were there of course. She had to sign the papers for it to happen.

Becky - posted on 08/29/2011

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I think she probably is really angry with herself for not standing up to her husband. And if she felt that strongly about it, she should have put her foot down and said, "it's not going to happen!" We were in a similar situation with our first - we planned throughout the pregnancy to have it done if we had a boy. My husband was the one who wanted it done, but I didn't really care one way or the other, so I went along with it. Fortunately here, they don't do it in the hospital. You have to find one of the 5 or so doctors in the city who do it, and have a consultation with them first. After I went to the consultation, I couldn't go through with it. I came home in tears and told my husband I couldn't do it. Fortunately, my husband respects me and when we talked about it, he agreed that we wouldn't have it done.
So I do think her anger is misplaced because unless he is completely controlling and she has no voice in the family (in which case, they have much bigger problems!), they should have been able to discuss it, she should have been able to make herself heard, and at the very least, they could have agreed to research it further together before having it done - since it sounds like it was a spur of the moment decision for her.

Krista - posted on 08/29/2011

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I DO think that the husband was a bit of a jerk about it. Even if she HAD changed her mind at the last second, if she was that upset about it, he should have at least agreed to hold off for a week so that they could talk about it. That's why I say they both bear some responsibility here. She caved, and he bullied. Either way, they both failed that poor little baby.

Kate CP - posted on 08/29/2011

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My hubby didn't speak to me for a day after I told him we weren't circumcising. He's never done that before so I knew he was pissed. But I stood my ground and our son is intact. Before hubby was adamant about circumcision...now he's ambivalent. It's a step in the right direction. :P

Tara - posted on 08/29/2011

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It wasn't a case of "I don't want to be alright" she cried, she tried to make him see that there was nothing wrong with his penis. She did ask the doctor to talk to him, and the nurses etc. but he had his mind made up and his stance was "we planned to have a baby, when we knew it was a boy, we planned to have him circumcised like me and my brothers are. He's my son etc. etc," so she did cave.
And I agree she should have been more insistent, however I don't think she should be mad at him, she is likely mad at herself for allowing it in the first place.
And Laura, good for you for taking the stand of no babies if they will be cut.
:)

JuLeah - posted on 08/29/2011

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I think she is angry with herself and ought to use this as a lesson to trust her own gut from now on; be glad it was not worse.

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