Corpral punishment vs women's rights

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2010 ( 53 moms have responded )

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Ok, so this thought has been stirring for a while and I need to get it out. Do you believe in the Death penalty? Do you believe in the women's rights to chose? Can you believe in the death penalty and pro-life and not be a hipocrit? What about not supporting the death penalty but supporting pro-choice? What is your stance?

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[deleted account]

I wrote a paper on the death penalty. I researched the cost of DP v. life imprisonment. The DP came out as more costly because of the appeals process. The only way to keep the death penalty is to keep the appeals process. If this is taken away it will be held as unconstitutional and abolished. The death penalty is very costly to the American tax payer. Either you believe it is right or wrong, but cost is a non-argument in this debate.

Tara - posted on 12/29/2010

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I don't believe in the death penalty and I'm pro-choice.
I don't feel I am a hypocrite.
Why? Because being pro-choice is not the same as being pro-death.

Desiree - posted on 12/30/2010

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The answer for me is yes I believe in women's rights and yes I believe in the Death penalty. Yes you have a right to chose and yes you can support both . But whether you end up sounding like a Hipocrate is enivitable in this case because there is no way you can argue for both and not come across as a hipocrate even though you don't mean to. Actually it becomes a loaded question.

I believe everyone has the right to chose but you have to face the results of those actions. Personally its my choice not to abort babies unless the reasons are exceptionally good reasons (it varies for each person) and those maybe yours. Take to mind that being a Pro Life does not neseccerily mean abortion or no.



Then I am pro the death penalty with the following argument. Why should someone who has the choice to kill, rape or abuse others for the fun of it or in the name of a gang be allowed the choice to live. Didn't that person take someone else's rights away. How is that justice and why the hell should my hard earned tax money be used to let this person live with a roof over his/her head and food in his/her stomach while millions of innocent people live with nothing and have no homes. My money is better served else where. In a world where there are more and more serial killers, serial rapists, serial abusers and peadophiles creeping out of every conceivable corner this is one way of making sure that firstly they don't re-enter normal society and can't hurt anyone again. Also these people can't be rehabilitated.

I could argue that being a pro lifer is like sitting on the wall, where you are for the innocent victim and feel they should still be here but it's not right for the person to stole their life to die either. Tell me is it right for them to enter back into society change their name start again and what about the family who has lost a loved one, where are their rights. Too many laws protect the wrong doer over the innocent and who protects the rights of the innocent or the man protecting their homes and families??? So the right to chose is yours it the greatest gift given to man and woman alike, but it should be removed if you have abused the privilege

Amber - posted on 12/31/2010

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PRO LIFE- PRO LIFE; although murdering an innocent child is not the same as murdering a cold blooded murderer, that is Gods place, not ours. I am ONLY pro life on the death penalty because you never know if you are getting the right person.

[deleted account]

Joanna, I'm glad people like you can make those couples happy, truely! If I have a child I will keep that child, thereby making no need for adoption... The only scenario I can come up with at this point in my life where I would consider abortion would be if I were in the middle of a divorce. Not that I condone pregnancy for those who cannot financially care for their child, I would not abort a child on that premise alone. Call me selfish...whatever...but I just could NOT give up a chid that is 100% mine regardless of the circumstance.

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Tracy - posted on 11/03/2012

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Basically, these are very separate issues. Corporal punishment is for those who have committed a crime severe enough to be punished with their life (now we can argue whether its effective as a deterrent or not, which statistically it's not). Abortion can really only be compared to corporal punishment if you can correlate the matter of choice. Let's start with the choice to commit the crime. That is the last you really get any decision making when it comes to the death penalty. Once you commit the crime, you are on the road in which OTHERS make choices for you. If you have sex (presuming it's consensual) then, as a woman, that is not the end of your decision making. If a pregnancy results, you can still choose to alter your own path by choosing motherhood, adoption or abortion. You are not at the mercy of others and their decisions.



So, one could easily be pro-life and pro-death penalty or pro-choice and anti-death penalty or any other combination because one is about punishment for a clearly labeled negative behavior/action while the other is about informed consent and decision making.

Kimberlee - posted on 11/03/2012

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Society can be protected by a life sentence. The death penalty is expensive and flawed which means sometimes innocent people are put to death. Plus killing a person because killing is wrong doesn't make any sense.



Abortion ends a pregnancy and kills a fetus therefore keeping the fetus from continuing to grow and become a newborn baby. Considering what some children are born into , it just might sometimes be the most humane thing a woman can chose.

Sally - posted on 11/03/2012

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Killing in self defense or war or the death penalty for bad enough crimes is protecting society by removing someone who wishes to harm others. Abortion is murdering an innocent baby because accepting the consequences your sex life would be inconvenient. They're not even close.

Ariana - posted on 11/02/2012

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I'm pro-choice and against the death penalty. I don't think a fetus under 3 months is a living being, it cannot live outside of the whom.



I am against the death penalty but for many reasons other than just 'it's a human being so we shouldn't murder them'. There are a whole lot more issues going on than just that.



They've already proven the death penalty does not deter criminals, it has racial bias against African Americans, they've already proven that innocent people have died on death row, and many more issues that go into it.

Kimberlee - posted on 11/01/2012

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I'm pro-choice and anti death penalty.



I think part of the problem is the whole labeling of the pro-choice and pro-life positions . It should be more like , pro keeping abortion a legal choice or anti legal choice. No one is " anti-Life" after all. Although I call myself pro-choice I am not pro-everyone should be able to choose whatever they want regarding whatever they want. I wouldn't want drunk people to legally be allowed to choose to drive drunk for example. Also calling someone "pro-life" imply's they are for the protection of all life and obviously many pro-life people are not concerned with protecting all life ( as your post points out) ..

Nicole - posted on 12/31/2010

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Do you believe in the Death penalty?

Yes, as long as the methods of execution are humane.

Do you believe in the women's rights to chose?

Yes, though I do not think this should be abused. I do not agree with abortion being used as a method of birth control on repeated occasions. I am also opposed to late term abortions.

Can you believe in the death penalty and pro-life and not be a hipocrit?

That is a hard question. The things these topics have in common is life and death. In the case of the death penalty we are talking about killing someone who has commited crimes that have brought serious harm to people. It is a matter of removing them from society, so they can’t hurt anyone else…and not just locking them in prisons.

Abortion is the killing of an unwanted fetus.

So, yes I think you can support the killing of dangerous criminals, while NOT supporting the killing of fetuses.

Jenny - posted on 12/31/2010

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I am pro choice.



I am also for the death penalty but only in certain circumstances. I don't believe it should be used a punishment. It should be reserved for cases when the person is untreatable and forever unsafe to be out in the public such as serial killers. People like Dahmer and Bernado. I see it as humane euthanisation in these cases.

Petra - posted on 12/31/2010

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Being pro- or anti-capital punishment has nothing to do with being pro or anti-choice. One has to do with legal punishment for individuals who have committed crimes and the other is an individual choice a women may or may not exercise over her body. Being pro in one respect and anti in the other is not tantamount to hypocrisy because the rationale for one is irrelevant to that for the other.

Like Tara and Kathy, I'm very much against capital punishment. Aside from the very real issue of executing innocent people, the whole notion of death as a punishment for killing is hypocritical. There is a real question about a society's value of life if that society is so willing to remove the right to life from some individuals - the enthusiasm with which some people support the death penalty disturbs me - if remorselessly killing another person is wrong, I don't see how one could support the further remorseless killing that is enabled by capital punishment. The burden of ending a life is unfairly placed upon someone else's shoulders and I fail to see how this can be condoned by a culture that claims to value human life. Capital punishment is often claimed to be employed as a deterrent, but the murder rate and huge prison population clearly show that this isn't enough.

For the record: pro-choice here.

Sharon - posted on 12/30/2010

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Being pro choice isn't being pro death and if this were to put to me in any other situation, I'd be pissed off.

I'm pro choice.

I'm pro death penalty.

Tiffany - posted on 12/30/2010

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I am against the death penalty. I am pro choice. I don't feel like I'm a hypocrite. There are so many instances where people are put to death for crimes they did not commit. But the biggest issue for me with the death penalty, is that I just can't see how killing someone for killing someone else is the right thing to do. I will say though that with the Pettit family case this year in CT, my views did start to wander a bit. As for pro choice....while I would never count abortion as a choice for me, it is not my right to tell another woman what she can or can not do with her body. I do think there needs to be much more stricter laws on the subject, and I do not support late term abortion in any way. I can't imagine being raped and having to face that choice.

Shauna - posted on 12/30/2010

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Im pro death penalty and pro choice.

however, my husband has been to prison and says there are so many guys that claim to be innocent, and he feels they really are b/c most guys in their brag about what they did and a few really stick to it that they are innocent. However DNA dont lie and if a person is commited of a crime and the DNA is there, its the fact.

Lacye - posted on 12/30/2010

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hinckl...,_Jr.

Sharon Cohen-Fonzo: Here is some more information about the man who tried to assassinate President Reagan. He is still alive in a mental institution but he is allowed to have visitations to his parent's house without supervision if I understand it correctly!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Bundy

Here is a clear example of a man who deserved the death penalty. He raped and murdered over 30 women, some of them were children (one I know was only 9 years old). He was caught in one of the US states that did not have the death penalty, but he escaped and ran to Florida where he raped and murdered a couple more women. Florida does have the death penalty and he was executed. Now if Florida didn't have the death penalty, do we really want a man like that alive and able to escape again? I surely don't.

[deleted account]

I am vehemently anti capital punishment. The death penalty was abolished in Australia in the late 60s. My opposition is not so much from a pro-life perspective, but from the belief that the death penalty has a brutalizing effect on society or those officials and jurors involved in a criminal justice system which imposes it. I believe that capital punishment may send the message that it is acceptable to kill in some circumstances, or that society has a disregard for the sanctity of life.
It is for this same reason that I oppose war.
I think the question of opposing abortion is a completely different one, largely because it is an individual choice, not a societal standard, as capital punishment is for those countries which have it. For the record, I am pro-choice in the matter of abortion.

Mrs. - posted on 12/30/2010

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Or they could let the family's of the victims decide...some forgive, many others do not. I suppose this would be a problem with people like Bernardo because of the shear volume of victims. Eww, it just makes me sick even writing this thinking he's still alive.

Rosie - posted on 12/30/2010

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i am pro-choice, pro death penalty for cases when DNA is involved. i simply cannot stand women not having a choice, and also cannot stand knowing a murdering scum is still breathing while his victim is not. i don't care about what is more humane, or whatever. you kill someone you lose your right to live in my book.

Caitlin - posted on 12/30/2010

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Rebecca - did you know it costs on about 300k a year to keep that slime alive? I heard that somewhere, no time to find a source, but that money could do so many better things...

Mrs. - posted on 12/30/2010

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Here's the thing many forget. To a sociopath, who has no remorse or real feeling, they wouldn't be sitting there thinking over all the bad things they've done. In fact, they can spend the rest of their lives reliving the memories of their rape and murder with satisfaction.



A very famous case here in Canada is Paul Bernardo. Some of you may have heard of him in the states. He raped/sometimes murders countless young girls as The Scarborough Rapist. Then went home and murdered/raped some more with his wife (who is now out living her life in Quebec somewhere despite having a hand in her own sister's rape/murder). Now he is in some jail because there is no death penalty here in Canada. He is alone in a cell and not with the prison population because they would kill him for the press (and being a kiddy rapist). This is too good for him, in my opinion. This is a man who is an empty shell with no feeling....why even bother to waste the air he breathes?

Caitlin - posted on 12/30/2010

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Let the community decide what to do with them, like the old days. A person is found guilty of a heinous crime, they are put into the stocks in the city square. If people feel bad for the convict, they can feed him/her and give them water to drink, and in a few days they are unlocked and let go. If the community thinks it's gross, they can throw things at the criminal, not feed him or let him drink and let him suffer. Makes sense to me, though it may sound cruel and gross as punishment, but it works for me..

Either that or we go back to the electric bleachers idea.. If it's a life sentence being served, it should be as short of a life as possible! For simple crimes, we can go the rehabilitation route, because everyone makes mistakes..

C. - posted on 12/30/2010

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Pro-death penalty and pro-life. No, it's not hypocritical. A baby has done nothing to deserve to die, whereas a prisoner who was proven guilty of murder, torture, rape did.

Yeah, it's nice to think that they should rot in jail.. BUT, people escape from jail all the time AND our tax dollars are hard at work keeping tons of people in jail as it is. If they kept all those A-holes in jail instead of enforcing the death penalty, our jails would literally be overflowing, even more so than they are now.

Tara - posted on 12/30/2010

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I would prefer a criminal spend the remainder of his/her days in an institution where they can be reminded daily of the crime they committed, I don't think death is a good punishment, it's the easy way out for the accused.
And there are too many cases of innocent people being proven innocent after spending years in a jail cell.
To take that risk and put someone to death without knowing 100% that they did it, is too risky. And even if they did it, and admitted to it, I still think death is too easy for them.
If it were my child/loved one etc. who had been raped etc. I would want that person to spend their remaining years in jail, even if they never give their victim a second thought, they are imprisoned for the rest of their life, a wasted life in a wasted world.
Death is too easy for them.
Abortion is a different ball game altogether. While I would never have one myself, I do believe in a woman's right to choose.

Caitlin - posted on 12/30/2010

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The problem with letting them rot away is that's not how it works anymore. It's not like they toss you in a deep dark hole and feed you when they remember. They get 3 meals a day, access to free health care, television, recreation, schooling and even internet access etc... That's more than a lot of people on the outside can afford, why should my taxes fund that?!?

Amanda - posted on 12/29/2010

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I am pro-life. I don't necessarily think abortions should be illegal, I think the woman has a right to choose in certain situations. Such as rape, incest, or if her or the unborn baby had a high chance of dying. As for the death penalty....I don't think 2 wrongs make a right...but if it was someone I love than I don't think I could ever forgive that son of a BIOTCH but I don't think killing him is goin to make any difference. It won't bring back your loved one...it won't make the pain feel any less, and the greiving won't stop. If they are locked up for life and behind bars to never see society again, than I don't see what the death penalty is really for? I'd rather them rot in hell for the rest of their miserable lives than offer them an easy way out.

Joanna - posted on 12/29/2010

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But Erin, there are couples who've waited years and years to adopt a child, thousands of couples in the US alone, and you could even pick the couple. It would have to be a rare situation for a child to end up in an orphanage here. My daughter is going to be 9 next month, and she is the light of her adoptive parents' lives (as well as mine). I can't imagine having ended her life for any reason.

Becky - posted on 12/29/2010

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I'm pro-life, and to me, that includes all human life. I do not think it's okay for one human to take the life of another, ever. Now, saying that, I understand that sometimes it is, or at the time seems to be, necessary. For instance, a pregnancy that would kill the mother to carry it to term, or shooting and killing an intruder who is going to kill your family. There may be some situations where one life has to end to protect another, and I guess you have to make a value judgement as to which life is more worth protecting. Society would say you protect the life that has the most value to society- which in the case of abortion would be the mother (although you can't really be sure of that, because you never know who that child would've ended up being) and in the second case, would most definitely not be the criminal! I've stated before in other threads, that while I'm pro-life, I don't believe abortion should be illegal. I think there are just too many variables that make it impossible to say across the board that it cannot or should not ever be done. I wish it was done a lot less frequently though!
I guess I am a bit of a hypocrite, because despite everything I've said, if it was someone in my family who was brutally raped or murdered, I'm pretty sure I'd be 100% pro-death penalty, to the point of being willing to flip the switch myself!

[deleted account]

I do support the death penalty and for the most heinous severe crimes, I wish the process would be speeded up so taxpayers don't have to clothes, feed, shelter the convict. LOVE the idea of electirc bleachers!
I am also pro-choice.

Like others pointed out, the death penalty & abortion are 2 non-comparable issues.

[deleted account]

I'm pro-choice for rape-victems, women who despite using birthcontrol and condoms got pregnant and know for a fact they could not be a competant mother, and for women who already have as many children as they can afford and despite getting their tubes tied got pregnant. I'm pro-life for women who just don't bother with birthcontrol or condoms, women who just would rather not right now but plan to have kids later, and girls who abortion after abortion still wont keep their legs closed. So I'm already a hypocrit :) I don't believe in the death penalty because mistakes happen far too often but I would be fine with it for murderers who were 18yrs and up and who without a single doubt did it (eye witnesses, forensic proof, and full confession). I think you can be pro-life and support death penalty for the following reason: a fetus is completely innocent, a criminal is not. People can have a variety of different views on all kinds of subjects and if some people think they are hypocrites so what? A personal opinion doesn't have to appeal to everyone and even if you were to try it wouldn't work.

[deleted account]

Yes you understood me correctly! I wouldn't go running off having abortions and all...but if I, for some ungodly reason, couldn't have my child I would prefer it to be aborted...I do not like orpanages and do not trust the system to provide better for my child.

Mrs. - posted on 12/29/2010

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Do I believe in the death penalty? After a lot of thought and to the shame of my liberal mother, yes.
Do I believe in a women's right to chose? I do.
Can you believe in the death penalty and pro-life and not be a hypocrite? I'm open to being convinced otherwise but...yeah, I do think it's a bit dodgy.

[deleted account]

I'm pro-life for all. That includes the innocent unborn and those who are considered medically viable, yet guilty of serious crimes. Do I think that other views are hypocritical? No, I just happen disagree with them.

Joanna - posted on 12/29/2010

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Erin, just curious... Why abortion over adoption? Youd rather kill your child than let it live with a family... Because that family isn't you? That's just the tone I got, and was going you'd elaborate your statement a bit. This coming from someone who's placed a child for adoption.

[deleted account]

I agree w/September! A criminal has done something horrific to get put on death row, so F him! A baby hasn't had the chance and although I think they deserve one I would rather have an abortion then give MY child up for adoption! Props to ppl who can, but that aint me! In regards to torture, brought up by Jenn, I can understand wanting to torture someone and maybe some ppl could "need" it...but I feel those are feelings of revenge and am not for torture...I think that is different then the death penalty because a group of your peers has felt that death is a just cause of someone else's crime.

Jenn - posted on 12/29/2010

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Oh, I don't think it's hypocritical - killing innocent babies and tried guilty parties are two entirely different things and can't be compared. I don't believe in the death penalty mainly because you never know for sure if the person really did commit the crimes - even if they "admit" it, they could be mentally unstable and admit to a crime they didn't commit. Sure they should be locked up, but to kill them? Nope - can't support that.

Jenn - posted on 12/29/2010

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I do not support the death penalty (although there are times when I think the person needs to be hung up by their toenails and tortured in every way possible), and while I am against abortion for myself, I am pro-choice.

September - posted on 12/29/2010

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Do I believe in the death penalty? Yes.
Do I believe in a women's right to chose? Yes.
Can you believe in the death penalty and pro-life and not be a hypocrite? Of course, imo I don't even see those two as comparable. Pro-life we are talking about an unborn child whereas the death penalty we're talking about (in most cases) an adult that committee a serious crime.

Joanna - posted on 12/29/2010

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Pro choice, pro death penalty. I don't want my tax dollars giving a murderer shelter and food.

Lacye - posted on 12/29/2010

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I do believe in the death penalty. If a person goes and kills a bunch of people with no remorse, (pardon the language) but the fucker deserves to die. That's just the way I feel about it.
I am pro life. I believe every child deserves the right to live. There are some cases where it's ok for the mother to have an abortion, Example: mother's life is at risk, mother was raped, that sort of thing.
Am I being hypocritical, no. I don't believe I am. It's completely different. Let's say a man goes out and murders a bunch of small children by cutting off their heads and hanging them in his house like trophies, in my opinion, he deserves to die. Nothing quick, and certainly nothing painless. Ok, now let's say a woman goes out and has unprotected sex with a bunch of different men and gets pregnant, to me, that child has just as much right to live as she does because the child is innocent. It has never hurt anybody, never killed anybody, and hasn't had a chance to go and live it's life.
Do I think people who don't support the death penalty but are pro choice are hypocritical? No. It's all opinions. No opinion is right and no opinion is wrong.

~♥Little Miss - posted on 12/29/2010

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I am not pro death penalty (for the most part) I would rather the fucker stayed in jail for murdering, molesting, raping, torturing etc for the rest of his life....maybe get a taste of his own medicine while in jail. I think dying lets them off too easy. But then there is the issue of me paying tax dollars for their food, tv, recreational time. It is a hqrd stand point. I am pro choice, and don't understand how pro-lifers can be advocates for anti abortion but pro death panalty. I do find it hypocritical, just like when pro lifers kill abortion Dr.s.

Caitlin - posted on 12/29/2010

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Oh, and my hubby says he doesn't believe in electric chairs, he believes in electric bleachers... lol.. easy access for all. Corporal punishment doesn't prevent crime, but its 100% effective against recidivism.

Caitlin - posted on 12/29/2010

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Pro death penalty, pro choice.

It would be hypocritical to flip flop on those ones I believe.

[deleted account]

the death penalty is stupid, judging is not our place, especially not by murdering someone. You cant prove 100% anything to be true, theirs a possibility no mater how guilty the person seems, that they are innocent.



i'm pro life for myself and pro choice for others. I think it would be wrong for me to have an abortion, i dont want others to either, but people are going to make their own decisions and if abortion were illegal, people would be doing it themselves, it would just go underground and more women would die as a result(faulty abortions). So while i do support a woman to have her right to choose to abort, i still think its wrong.

Sherri - posted on 12/29/2010

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Yes believe in the Death Penalty
Yes believe in a woman's right to choose.
I do not think you can believe in the death penalty and call your self pro-life.
Can't comment on your last question, I just don't know.

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