DADT repealed, suck on that all you naysayers! :D

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Krista - posted on 12/19/2010

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Christina, that's the same argument that was used by people who were arguing against civil rights, against anti-miscegenation laws, against women's rights.

There is never a perfect time. Ever. Those "better times" in the past that you speak of may have been an even worse time, but for different reasons. Those "better times" in the future may never come to be.

History has shown us that when it comes to social justice, society ALWAYS needs a push. It needs that push, which results in an awkward, sometimes ugly period of time when people resist the change and say "Why can't you wait? There are so many other big things going on right now?" This happens every single time a major social justice comes to fruition. I guaran-friggin-tee you that even if we waited until there were absolutely no troops in any combat positions, it would STILL be a bad time, for some reason or another.

So sometimes you have to say, you know what, it may not be a good time, but we have to do it now, because goodness knows when we're gonna get another chance. Shit, you think if Obama's booted out of office and you get a Republican president in '12 that repealing DADT would be at the top of the priority list? Nuh-uh.

Barb - posted on 12/19/2010

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Yayy!! Bout damn time!! Suck it McCain!

This policy should never have been enacted in the first place. As far as stopping it now, why not? there would never have been a good time to stop it. There will always be some excuse, some war, some skirmish, some unrest somewhere in the world that someone will bring up as a reason not to do something.

There is never a wrong time to do the right thing.

Will there be problems? sure, but i'm sure they will be addressed as they become an issue like they should have been in the first place instead of enacting this legislation.

Amanda - posted on 12/19/2010

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Christina- why always take it to that level, an explanation is fine, no one is trying to change your mind, but, again, it's a debate thread. i don't care if you're tired, you're always tired (i say this because anytime you begin to throw a hissy fit directed at someone you throw that info in) no one is MAKING you read and respond to this thread.......... but since you've taken it there; you're right, I don't feel strongly about the military i only served 16 months in Iraq losing friends and coworkers that i was close with... my husband is considered a disabled veteran as am i...... i have friends and family in the military serving overseas......no biggie. but the repeal of DADT does not take away from the war what so ever. Just because death tolls and the war aren't on the front page of the newspapers anymore doesn't mean that the average american has forgotten!
oh p.s. "hun" unless your hubby is gay repeal of DADT does not effect you.

Jodi - posted on 12/19/2010

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You know, everyone brings up the fact that "Oh my goodness, a straight person might now get hit on by a gay person!" But at least now, the gay community in the military doesn't have to be getting hit on by straight people and have to lie about why they won't date them...at least now a gay person can say "Oh hey, I'm really flattered, but I'm gay! I have a really great straight friend I could hook you up with!" Nobody seems to care that straight people hit on gay people also...and you don't see gay people throwing a shit fit about it.Just sayin'.

Amanda - posted on 12/19/2010

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Christina- there would never be a better time to do this, there is always going to be conflict that the military is involved in.... do you see an end to this war in sight?
but as Christina said, unfortunately, there are many homophobes serving in the military (that much is true), but at the same time there are also plenty of racists serving in the military, and while, yes, there are fights breaking out over it, the overall productivity of the military has not decreased because of it. with gays now allowed to serve openly it will be up to their chain of command to protect them, just as with any other soldier under their command. I am sure that the military will respond to homophobia in a similar way they deal with racism, sexism, and sexual harassment/crimes...
I knew many gay soldiers (both male and female) in the military, and for the most part their fellow soldiers knew and accepted it.

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Ez - posted on 12/19/2010

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** Mod Alert**

For the love of Jeebus people. Another one bites the dust. That's four in one day.. a DM record. Any more violations of the rules will result in an automatic 24hr block.

Erin - Mod.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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You know what? That's fine. I know what I did and did not do. Happy debating, ladies. I'm out.

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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Damn it, now, let's not get my thread locked! Too much locking going on today and I love this thread! LOL

Kate CP - posted on 12/19/2010

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...You ever heard the saying if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck? I think you're being a duck, Christina.

Amanda - posted on 12/19/2010

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Christina- I did read and found it vague.... and then you took it there. And here we are off topic..... anyway, if you are concerned that the repeal of DADT will take away from the war and death tolls then do something to honor the fallen, it will help you to always remember and take your mind off of the lack of media coverage. Honestly, if it's not the repeal of DADT taking the focus off, then it will just be something else

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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"Christina, you CONSTANTLY change the content of your posts when people point out you don't make sense."

I absolutely do not edit my posts if someone doesn't agree with me. That's just not who I am. Do I try to explain myself in future posts? Sure. But I am not the type of person to go back and edit something for my own benefit. There's no point in it and it's just not the type of person I am.

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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I don't know, Laura, I laugh at my own jokes all the time, might as well want to mark them as funny. ;)

Kate CP - posted on 12/19/2010

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Christina, you CONSTANTLY change the content of your posts when people point out you don't make sense. And then you say 'Go back and read'. Well, DUH, if we go back and read your edited post it'll make more sense.

BTW, I think DADT was stupid and pointless and I'm happy it's being repealed. So nya. :P

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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And no, Amanda.. You read what you wanted to. Hissy fit? Maybe. But I don't feel the need to repeat myself over and over. If you'd go back and read, you'd get a lot of answers to your questions.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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Honestly, Jodi.. I can't believe you would accuse me of something I did not do. I may be many things, be it emotional, happy at times, angry at times, passionate about many things.. But I am not a liar. If I make a mistake, I own up to it. And I refuse to be accused of something I didn't do. I've lost all respect for you, Jodi, for doing that.

Amanda - posted on 12/19/2010

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well, I don't need to go back to grade school, but if you'd like to go right on ahead! Again, you are the one who took it to that level, with your little hissy fit...again....

Jodi - posted on 12/19/2010

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Of course you didn't. I'm not going to argue with you over it. I know what I saw, and I think it was unfair to call Amanda out on it. I just simply wanted to make that point. End of discussion.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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I did not change anything, Jodi! Oh my God! If I make a mistake, I own it and I apologize. I NEVER said tired in my post!

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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@AMANDA: "i don't care if you're tired, you're always tired (i say this because anytime you begin to throw a hissy fit directed at someone you throw that info in)"



Uh, do we need to go back to grade school and learn how to read what's actually written??



Not once in my response to you did I say I was tired. You're reading things that aren't even there!!!



I SAID, I don't have the patience and don't feel like repeating myself. Maybe I should have said I don't have the patience FOR repeating myself, but regardless, I did not say I was tired ANYWHERE in my post. Until you are going to read what's written, don't bother responding to me, please b/c this is going to get annoying very fast if I have to keep going back and forth between what I DID say and what you THINK I said..



And for the record, I am always tired. It's called medical problems and that's partly why I'm seeing a doctor. But I do not always throw that in my posts. I DO always say I'm tired of repeating myself. But there's a HUGE difference in that.

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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Oh well, jeez, have a life then! :P Actually, I wasn't on until today either. lol

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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Hm, actually now that this has been repealed we can move on with it and it won't be in the news as much...
Regardless, the death toll isn't talked about as much as it should be and that has nothing to do with DADT, it was that way before, it will (unfortunately) continue to be that way.

And I don't think Amanda is trying to change anyone's mind, she's just pointing out your weak arguments.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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"Christina- how does repealing a policy take away from the death tolls of the war?"



Um.. HOW?? B/c something as big as repealing DADT will take precedence over war-related topics in the news. It happens all the time. And people, politicians to be more specific, always do it to take people's minds off of the more important issues, like how many are losing their lives overseas for their freedom.



Ugh.. Seriously, I don't have the patience. I just don't feel like repeating myself. So if anyone else has any more questions, please either read the previous posts, or refer to the other DADT threads that have been posted in the not-so-far-off past.



Maybe a weak reasoning for YOU, Amanda. But I feel strongly about anything military. What the military does, affects my entire family in one way or another- same goes for any military family. Maybe that's not the same for you, and that's fine. But it's that way for me. I just feel that this wasn't the best time to do it. And if you don't feel that way, GREAT! But for cripe's sake.. Quit trying to change someone else's mind when they've already posted WHY and HOW they feel about something.. REPEATEDLY. It's just not gonna happen, hun.

Amanda - posted on 12/19/2010

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Jodi- that's awful, it should not have happened without proof, the military isn't always honorable that's for sure :(

Christina- how does repealing a policy take away from the death tolls of the war? Policies are made, changed and repealled quite frequently without taking away from anything...... there are individuals within the military that have the sole job of proposing/drafting/creating such actions and policies as well as advising the president.... there are also individuals within the military doing the same but with the sole purpose/focus on the conflicts and wars.... so really, there is no focus being taken off of the war and its casualties. it's a weak reasoning

[deleted account]

I don't think there are many issues going on at the moment that take priority over supporting the troops serving in these awful wars. We should support our troops regardless of their sexuality or any other aspect of their personal lives.

Jodi - posted on 12/19/2010

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Amanda, my sister was kicked out of the military with honorable discharge for being a lesbian...absolutely NO proof. Only heresay from ONE soldier who had a suspicion she might be gay...DADT was a load of crap with too many homophobes behind it ready to take any sign as "proof". Granted, we couldn't have been happier to have our sister/daughter sent home in the middle of the Iraq war when things were getting really ugly...

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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Well, the great thing is, we can do more than one thing at once. ;) Obviously.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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@Dana M: It's Ok.. I just feel that right now there are other things going on that are just as important, if not more so, than the repealing of this policy. I feel that it takes the focus away from other things right now, like what's going on overseas and the death tolls from the war, along with other things, but that was just to name a few.



@Dana S.. I never said it was b/c we were ENDING a

war.



And you're right.. ALMOST 20 years.. My bad :/

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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It's actually only been in effect for 17 yrs...but what is the reasoning that it isn't the time right now? I know you've said before that it's because we're ending a war but, that's really a vague excuse.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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"But why coddle those who feel that way, when it's not right"

It's not that I want to coddle them, Krista. I just think NOW isn't the best time to do it. I think there have been better times in the past and that there will be better times in the future, that's all. I'm not saying that people feeling that way are right and I'm not saying it should never be done. I just don't think this was the best time to repeal something that's been in effect for more than 20 years.

Amanda - posted on 12/19/2010

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"That could have something to do with the fact that if they wanted to try and seduce someone of the same sex, they would have been kicked out"
Christina- not entirely true.... the DADT policy did not prohibit gays from serving, it merely made them live their lives quietly really.... hitting on someone is not enough "proof of homsexuality" in order to be kicked out a gay soldier had to be caught in the act either physically or through pictures... there had to be solid proof. repealling the DADT policy just means that as long as soldiers are not married and of the same rank, if they are caught together sexually with someone of the same sex they can't be punished, or kicked out

Krista - posted on 12/19/2010

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But why coddle those who feel that way, when it's not right, while punishing those people who haven't done anything wrong? It's bass-ackwards.

And Laura brings up a good point -- repealing DADT does not = repealing anti-fraternization rules. Plus, like Dana said, even if there WEREN'T anti-frat rules, why would you want to hit on someone you know doesn't play for the same team as you? It'd be quite the exercise in futility, no?

Of course yes, there are still ridiculous men out there who think that every gay man on the planet is panting with lust over THEM. I say, why humour idiots like that?

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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"Which is why I say those that use that argument are homophobic. It's as blatant as the sun is round..."

I use that argument as someone that's talked to many soldiers about it. I have gay, lesbian, bi and straight friends. If I was a homophobe, I wouldn't talk to them for fear of them hitting on me. Guess what? That's never happened. They know I don't swing that way, so they don't even try.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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"That's just ridiculous though. I'm not "afraid" to get hit on by anyone why would a soldier be afraid of that? It just goes right back to homophobia, as usual."

Look, I didn't say it was right for people to feel that way. But the fact is, there ARE people that feel that way.

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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Which is why I say those that use that argument are homophobic. It's as blatant as the sun is round...

Krista - posted on 12/19/2010

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@Christina.......I'd rather have some of the men afraid to get hit on then the other ones killing themselves because they've had to hide who they are.

I'm quite sure that the men in the military would respect their fellow men and respect their sexual preferences. And quite honestly, if the guys don't want to be hit on, they can just say so. It's nearly the same as being hit on by someone you don't like.

Isobel - posted on 12/19/2010

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cause that would be the rule that stops soldiers from hitting on each other, not being able to admit who you are without being fired.

Isobel - posted on 12/19/2010

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oh, I thought they repealed DADT, not changed the rules about fraternization. My bad

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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Gay people are not going to try to "get with straight people" either. That's like me saying I'm going to hit on gay men...one, I'd be wasting my time, two, who likes rejection and rejection where you're being a total idiot at that.

Caitlin - posted on 12/19/2010

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OMG, i've never seen a gay guy trying to "convert" a straight guy.. not worth their energy in their minds. If your so afraid a gay guy might see your junk while you change in the morning, join the amish...

Dana - posted on 12/19/2010

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That's just ridiculous though. I'm not "afraid" to get hit on by anyone why would a soldier be afraid of that? It just goes right back to homophobia, as usual.

C. - posted on 12/19/2010

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"and they have somehow managed to keep their homosexual claws off of all the straight meat, all these years"



That could have something to do with the fact that if they wanted to try and seduce someone of the same sex, they would have been kicked out. That might be why some of the straights are afraid, b/c now they will be allowed to get hit on by gays w/o much happening to them b/c they're allowed to be 'out' and that may make some people uncomfortable. Sure, there's a such thing as sexual harassment, and I'm sure gays won't try to get with straight people as often as homophobes think.. But the thought is still there with some people and it kind of freaks them out.

Rosie - posted on 12/19/2010

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i don't get it, what are people afraid of? theyr'e already working with gay people, and they have somehow managed to keep their homosexual claws off of all the straight meat, all these years. do they think that once they can actually be open about it that somehow gives them the green light to pork everyone around? gah, i don't get it.

Jessica - posted on 12/19/2010

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I'm all for people being able to be themselves, what they do with there sex lives has nothing to do with how the hold and fire a gun or any other task they may have to perform. If the currently enlisted people don't like it, I think they really should just suck it up and get over themselves. Has nothing to do with them other then them getting all antsy in there pants.

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