Detective wants to ban co-sleeping....

Katherine - posted on 12/28/2010 ( 45 moms have responded )

65,420

232

5195

Detective Wants to Ban Co-Sleeping
Posted by Michele Zipp
on December 27, 2010 at 2:45 PM

* Comments (20)|
* Likes (7)

Share101

baby boy sleepingOne detective in a small town is against co-sleeping. Probably because crime is slow or something?! Genius Detective Rick Decker reminded parents: "If something does happen and the child passes away the only thing you're going to be able to bond to is a cold piece of granite in a cemetery somewhere." Wow, brilliant man, don't you think? Here he is, making moms feel their choice to co-sleep will result in the death of their child. It's his use of the word bond that does it. Like a stake right into the heart of attachment parents.

Of course, he didn't take into account all the positive factors associated with safe co-sleeping along with the lower risk of SIDS. Decker clearly isn't AP. Which is fine. He doesn't have to be. Maybe he has a sleeping disorder or oh I don't know has a teddy bear fetish and there's no room in his bed for his kids (I'm kidding of course). But it seems to me like he's choosing to battle the innocent.

If you ban co-sleeping you might as well outlaw knives, too. A knife can kill someone right? If it's not used as it was intended ... for cutting up your meat or dicing vegetables.
Even the Terre Haute, Indiana, news is anti family slumber. WTHITV said "The safest place for your baby to sleep for at least the first six months is in a crib, not your bed." The attack on this AP practice is because our detective here says co-sleeping is to blame for the death of five babies in Wabash Valley in 2010. But when I dug a little deeper into some of these cases, there were drugs or alcohol involved.

One mom whose child died from suffocation from "co-sleeping" has been arrested several times on prescription drug fraud. Another mother's child died after that mom drank and then fell asleep on her child.

Shouldn't this detective instead be helping moms see the dangers in doing anything under the influence when a child is around? New York passed Leandra's Law that makes it a felony for driving drunk with a child under 15 in the car after 11-year-old Leandra Rosado was killed in a car accident. The driver, a family friend, was drunk.

We didn't blame the car in that tragedy. We blamed the person in control of the car. Her actions caused the death. Just like so many co-sleeping accidents. It's the fault of the person in control, the adult, who made a poor choice to co-sleep (or do anything with a child) while under the influence.

To Detective Rick Decker, I say this ... don't attack the act of co-sleeping. These women weren't co-sleeping for the bond, or so they can breastfeed more easily in the night. These women made a poor choice to take drugs or drink and then fell asleep with their baby. That choice resulted in the baby suffocating. It's tragic. And it's just not the same.

What do you think? Are you on my side or Detective Decker's? Is co-sleeping dangerous? Should it be banned?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

Sherri you have no say in how anyone chooses to form bonds or have a relationship , your opinion is not "law" you don't believe YOUR children do not belong in your bed and that is fine , on the otherside some may wonder how any parent could choose to sleep away from their child in what is essentially a very unatural state of parenting and not how we are biologically meant to be as humans , personally I really couldn't care less if you do or don't but that is the opposing argument to your child not belonging in your bed , also more children die yearly in cribs than co sleeping .

Katherine - posted on 12/28/2010

65,420

232

5195

Mammals have co-slept since the beginning of time. They all do it. If it's not right for you I totally respect that.
But to say it's dangerous and blah blah and not back it up is ridiculous IMO.

[deleted account]

Bed-sharing was not for us, but I don't think it should be banned, and I know it is very safe when done properly. The problem is that A LOT of people are not doing it properly.



Several of the mothers I knew who were bed-sharing were not following all precautions. A couple of them, who were not using co-sleepers (the little cribs that go in the bed with you) had blankets and pillows on their beds. These were not "bad moms", in fact, I consider them very good moms, but they just got "comfortable" and started cutting corners for comfort.

Another mother somehow managed to allow her 13 week old baby to roll off the edge of the bed and hit her head on a step stool. She chipped her skull--she is fine now, but it was scary. The mother thought she was doing everything right--her pediatrician advised against rails b/c the child could get trapped between the mattress and the rail, but he failed to tell her that she needed to make sure her bed was closer to the ground. Ideally, on a spring mattress, the baby rolls towards the mother, but she had a "memory foam" mattress, which she thought would be better and keep her from rolling into the baby, but it backfired.

Another family in which the father has very long hair, did not tie it up and got a few strands wrapped around his daughter's fingers, cutting circulation off to 3 fingers. He usually tied it up, but he was working an odd shift one day and ended up going to bed several hours before his wife and child. His wife simply forgot to wake him and tell him to pull his hair up. It was just this tiny little detail...





Again, these were very good parents who love and care for their kids, but these are also mistakes that anyone could make. I don't think banning bed-sharing is the answer, but I think more education on how to properly bed-share would help tremendously--All of these families thought they were bed-sharing properly. I think a lot of the opposition to bed-sharing comes from people, who, like myself, have seen it done improperly. To be honest, I am very selfish and cannot imagine sleeping without a blanket and pillow for a year, but that is just me :)

I did still want to bond with my little, but chose to put him in a cradle beside our bed until he was older. We moved him to his room shortly before he turned one, but by the time he was 2.5 yrs, he was sleeping in our bed :P Honestly, it felt more natural and I liked having him there. By that age, I could still have my blanket (a thin one) and pillow, and still enjoy having my little in the bed. Sometimes I wonder if we would have bonded more if we had bed-shared when he was an infant, and if I was selfish to choose my comfort over my son, but I really don't think I would have slept much if I'd had him there, and that would have led to a whole host of other problems--much like a mother who was most comfortable with her child in bed with her would not sleep much without him there. This is just something I think should be up to the mother.

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

Well the benefits of co-sleeping still exist they do make an impact on health and bonding , Do we need it ? No but it does give children a great advantage when used correctly from reducing SIDS , regulating breathing , and increased breastfeeding ( which comes with it's own benefits ) which in turn affects mothers health and mental state .



The debate isn't whether it is needed but more with Sherri's veiw that it shouldn't be done by anyone .



Apart from being a natural characteristic of our species, constant proximity to the mother during infancy is also made necessary by the need to feed frequently. Human milk is composed of relatively low amounts of protein and fat, and high amounts of quickly absorbed and metabolized sugars. Therefore the infant's hunger cycle is short, as is the time spent in deep sleep. All of these factors seem to indicate that the custom of separating infants from their parents during sleep time is more the result of cultural history than of fundamental physiological or psychological needs. Sleep laboratory studies have shown that bed-sharing, instead of sleeping in separate rooms, almost doubled the number of breast-feeding episodes and tripled the total nightly duration of breast-feeding. Infants cried much less frequently when sleeping next to their mothers, and spent less time awake. We think that the more frequently infants are breast-fed, the less likely they are to die from cot death.



scientific studies of mother and infants sleeping together have shown how tightly bound together the physiological and social aspects of the mother-infant relationship really are. Other studies have shown that separation of the mother and infant has adverse consequences. Anthropological considerations also suggest that separation between the mother and infant should be minimal. Western societies must consider carefully how far and under what circumstances they want to push infants away from the loving and protective co-sleeping environment. Infants' nutritional, emotional and social needs as well as maternal responses to them have evolved in this environment for millennia , it is part of our constant evolution not something we have evolved out of .



Also I wanted to add that as you ( I think ) are comparing my response to your sex at dawn thread I was specifically thinking about the humans evolution of mind and conciousness and not physical evolution and it's needs such as this topic .

Amanda - posted on 12/28/2010

697

15

25

well Sherri, if you had an 8 month old who was up every 40min to an hour every single night for 8 months you just might lose that opinion that children don't belong in the parents bed ever.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

45 Comments

View replies by

Anonymous - posted on 06/22/2012

51

0

0

stupid detective, stupid ban. Maybe he should check all his facts before making a general ban for every parent. Perhaps we should ban peanuts, wheat products, and penicillin because of children's allergies.

Amanda - posted on 12/29/2010

697

15

25

"The conclusion that the researchers drew from this study was that sleeping with an infant in an adult bed is dangerous and should never be done. This sounds like a reasonable conclusion, until you consider the epidemic of SIDS as a whole. During the 8-year period of this study, about 34,000 total cases of SIDS occurred in the U.S. (around 4250 per year). If 65 cases of non-SIDS accidental death occurred each year in a bed, and about 4250 cases of actual SIDS occurred overall each year, then the number of accidental deaths in an adult bed is only 1.5% of the total cases of SIDS"
just found the above info, can't seem to find exact numbers of crib deaths v. cosleeper deaths, but in the grand scheme 1.5% is not all that high.
Like Kate, my newborns slept in the bassinet beside my bed for the first 4 months of life, until they outgrew the bassinet. they then went to thier crib, but because they don't sleep they ended up in bed with us, i am an unintentional cosleeper, but it works for us

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

Liz I could also say driving in cars with children is dangerous because far more children die in them and therefore all children should not be allowed in cars .



I am sorry for your loss , it is a terrible tragedy .



And yes co sleeping extends to being with arms reach either in your bed or in a bassinet next to your bed , by defintition .

[deleted account]

Having your baby next to your bed in a bassinet is very different then having a baby in your bed. I really don't care how many of you think your family bed is safe for a newborn because in reality its not. I have always had my babies in my room and with my first 3 they did sleep in my bed quite often and my ex and I thought we did things safely because we did things as safely as possible. But guess what my son would have been 4 the 27th of this month, instead he's gone and I am a total mess and can't go to sleep at night until I've checked on my kids 20 times to make sure they are still breathing!



Edit to add- I didn't mean to vent that much. Just been a rough couple of days.

Kate CP - posted on 12/28/2010

8,942

36

758

Co sleeping isn't dangerous unless you make it dangerous. I also have to point out that co-sleeping and bed sharing are different things. I co-slept with my daughter for a long time-she in her bassinet and me in my bed right next to the bassinet. When my son is born I'll do the same thing. I can't bed share with my kids because I take sleeping pills to help me sleep. I am still able to wake up and function when I hear them cry but I don't stir easily if one of them were to roll into me or get wedged some where. There is nothing wrong with co sleeping or bed sharing if done safely and properly. Many mothers around the globe do it. The mothers who do it while drunk, high, or on medication are the ones who are putting their kids at risk.

[deleted account]

Co-sleeping is dangerous with infants no matter what precautions you take with an exception to those bassinets that lay in your bed to keep the baby in its own safe little space IMO.

Lindsay - posted on 12/28/2010

3,532

26

267

Co-sleeping is not something I was ever comfortable with for my family. That being said, I think this is one of the many decisions that should be up to each parent. Expecting parents should receive imformation on how to both safely co-sleep and crib sleep and make that decision for their own family.

[deleted account]

Most of you have already said what I think on this. I still bedshare with my 3 year old and none of us (my husband included...even though he's rarely in bed with us since he works nights) is ready to change that yet so it will stay this way until that changes. I'd also like to know how they would plan on enforcing the ban on co-sleeping. I mean really. That's an impossible task. There is no way to enforce what goes on behind closed doors unless "they" start infringing upon all kinds of other rights, like privacy.

Mrs. - posted on 12/28/2010

1,767

6

30

Could be we've evolved past the need to co-sleep too?

To each his own on this one but....

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

Yes I get that it is your opinion , I actually have no problem with babies sleepin in cribs I am merely saying scientific research shows biologically humans are meant to sleep with their babies , you do not feel comfortable doing that and that is fine.



Again I get your opinion as it applies to you but it does not change scientific fact that biologically babies belong in bed with their parents .

Jenny - posted on 12/28/2010

4,426

16

129

Our hospital recommends it too. I had a Csection and two hours later they brought me my babies. They were with me for my entire stay including overnight.



I think it's stupid to try to tell people how they should sleep. In fact, it's downright fucking retarded.

Sherri - posted on 12/28/2010

9,593

15

391

Well I disagree Loureen it is my opinion children belong in their own beds. I don't want my children in my bed EVER.

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

Yes I am debating your opinion , biologically human babies are meant to sleep with their mothers .

Sherri - posted on 12/28/2010

9,593

15

391

Amanda I had an infant who never slept more than an hr at a time till he was almost 8 mo's old and I still didn't co sleep so nope didn't change my opinion. And I had another baby too and worked full time.

Sherri - posted on 12/28/2010

9,593

15

391

Loureen I said straight out it was MY OPINION. Everyone can do what they want. But if asked I am not going to lie I don't think children belong in their parents bed.

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

Julianne our hospital also reccomended co - sleeping both at home and in hospital !!

Jodi - posted on 12/28/2010

2,694

52

175

Here's my story on people just like this detective. My sister is a police officer in a city that inhabits approximately 40k people. When she found out we were co-sleeping with our daughter she told me how dangerous it was, how she gets calls all the time to the scene of a baby who died whilst co-sleeping, she would call me everytime she came from a call like that to remind me how I was putting my child's life at risk. Eventually, after many months of this I asked her how many babies she has seen that have died whilst co-sleeping where BOTH parents in the bed were practicing co-sleeping practices (which I explained what those practices are) and where neither parent was under the influence of drugs, alcohol, or some form of sleep inducing medication. She could not name one. After further discussion (where I assured her that we do it safely) she finally admitted she sees many babies dead in their cribs filled with bumpers that got pulled down, pillows, heavy blankets and stuffed animals.

Co-sleeping is not inherently dangerous, in fact there are many benefits to co-sleeping when done safely and properly. Stupid parenting, on the other hand...I consider that dangerous.

This is all despite the fact of...how would they ensure that parents aren't co-sleeping? There is no way to regulate that or catch it unless a child does die co-sleeping, and by that time it would be too late anyways.

[deleted account]

Thats one thing i was grateful for in the hospital. I had an awesome nurse, she asked if i was going to co-sleep, i never really thought about it, she explained all the benefits that she knew of and the safety measures to take. So brad went to the couch for a bit, and gabby and i got the bed until she was a bit older :P

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

Absolutely Krista , every parentng through infancy book I have read discusses safe sleeping in cribs but rarely in co sleeping and I think it is absolutely important to stress ALL saftey precautions .

Krista - posted on 12/28/2010

12,562

16

847

I think the very idea of banning co-sleeping is ludicrous. However, I think that during the prenatal visits, the doctors/midwives/what-have-you should discuss sleeping arrangements with the mother or parents, and should provide them with clear and concise information on how to co-sleep safely, and how to crib sleep safely. There are a lot of parents out there who are just very ignorant about safe sleeping, period. Yes, co-sleeping is dangerous IF it's done improperly. So is crib sleeping. And ideally, the parents would do their homework and take it upon themselves to learn safe sleeping practices, but as we all know, there are a lot of idiot parents out there. So it should be something that is brought up and hammered home by the medical community.

Charlie - posted on 12/28/2010

11,203

111

409

He is obviously not very informed on the matter , that there are saftey precautions to take as there is with crib sleeping to prevent death and that co - sleeping in fact lowers the risk of SID'S and is strongly reccomended for the many , many benefits as cited by Dr James Mckenna the worlds leading expert on infant sleep and SIDS .

It is against the guidlines of safe sleep to co sleep and take drugs just as the use of bumpers , pillows and piles of blankets is dangerous in crib sleeping .
If you don't want to co sleep that is just fine , it isn't for everyone but this ban is akin to banning mothers driving with children because a few thousand morons chose to drive drunk , without seatbelts , not in the correct car seat ect .
Idiots should be outlawed from breeding .

Joanna - posted on 12/28/2010

2,096

19

137

I prefer not cosleeping as I like to spread out and relax when I sleep. I am a very light sleeper though, and some nights I'm just so exhausted I just bring my 2 month old into bed and she nurse-sleeps and I sleep. I think our bodies are naturally aware when there's a child in the bed, so unless you are under the influence there shouldn't be a problem.

Mrs. - posted on 12/28/2010

1,767

6

30

I don't think it would really work as a ban. Who polices that?

I personally don't get co-sleeping, it's not for my family. I can't even sleep with my dog (who's 8 pounds) because I worry about smothering her (she doesn't move when people accidentally lay on her). Not to mention, she's up and down all night and makes noise. The same can be said for my daughter, she moves around a lot and makes a ton of noise. Plus, I like to take the little alone time my fiance and I have in the bedroom and actually have sex. Sorry, I just can't focus on even getting in the mood if my kid is there. I know, co-sleeping family members say they just do it elsewhere but I guess I'm just lazy, I just want things easily accessible, it's more likely to happen for me, at least.

Sherri - posted on 12/28/2010

9,593

15

391

I don't approve of co-sleeping ever to be honest. A child IMO does not belong in their parents bed period.

Sarah - posted on 12/28/2010

1,499

10

41

Sherri, do you believe that co-sleeping at any age is dangerous? At what age do you think is old enough to co-sleep with the parents?

Sherri - posted on 12/28/2010

9,593

15

391

I actually think cosleeping is an extremely bad idea and is a terribly huge risk. I would never want to risk my child's life and cosleeping in my opinion is taking quite an unnecessary risk.

Shauna - posted on 12/28/2010

1,015

19

35

Its silly to try and ban co-sleeping... i dont exactly know how they would go about doing that unless they charge you if your child was injured during the practice----which i would think would be more child neglect if mother was intoxicated...... i never thought i would co-sleep however i find myself doing it more often than none. Like many have stated above you have to be responsible about it. Im so overprotective and very careful when my son is in bed with us, constantly checking on him, and most the time i barley get sleep myself when hes in bed simple so i can watch him.

Tracey - posted on 12/28/2010

1,094

2

58

I co-slept with all my babies until they slept through the night as it was easier to breastfeed. I didn't drink or take any form of medication for those months so it was as safe as it could be.

There have been several cases in UK recently of dogs attacking and killing children, would this detective have all canines put down as they all have the potential to bite a child?

Becky - posted on 12/28/2010

2,892

44

93

I don't believe that co-sleeping is inherently dangerous, any more than I believe eating peanut butter is inherently dangerous. For some people, eating peanut butter could kill them. But does that mean we should ban the sale of peanut butter? No! Because for most people, there is no danger involved in eating peanut butter. For some kids, it's the only protein they will eat! So yes, for some families, co-sleeping is dangerous, because a parent has a sleep disorder or is on medication that makes them sleep heavily or uses drugs or alcohol, or is just an idiot and doesn't follow proper safety precautions. But for other families, there are tremendous benefits to cosleeping. So, unless we are going to ban everything that has potential risks, which would basically lead to us being housebound and starving to death or dying of dehydration (because water might have flouride or other toxins in it), then the idea of banning cosleeping because some children have died, either because of unsafe cosleeping practices or because they died of SIDS and may have died anyways had they been sleeping in a crib, is ridiculous. (sorry for the run-on sentence!) And like Sarah said, how in the world would they ever even enforce such a ban?!

[deleted account]

I don't have anything against co-sleeping, I didn't with my son nor will I with the new baby but thats for personal reasons. I just prefer having the bassinet close to my bed but not having a newborn right in the bed. The fact this man is attacking parents who have lost a child for any reason is just sick. They didn't drown their babies, shake, or purposefully harm them. If there was alcohol or drugs involved why hadn't social services been involved immediately?! Here when you have a baby they have a CAS worker on call they have a quick assesment while you're still in the hospital and if everything seems fine they send u on ur way with a follow up appointment to see you and the new baby at home. If things are a miss and somethings funky they open a file and stay involved, it everything is good then they go on their way. The result is a lot more children end up in care because their moms are depressed but babies dying at the hands of their parents or due to neglect are fewer and farther between. Better safe than sorry.

Sarah - posted on 12/28/2010

1,499

10

41

I co-sleep with my 15 month old son. I was actually against co-sleeping at first, because my husband & I have a small bed and I wanted to be comfortable. There just wasn't enough room for 2 adults, a child, and occasionally our 36lb dog! BUT, as my son got older, we gradually starting putting him in our bed when he would wake up at night. It just became a habit...a habit which I HOPE isn't too hard to break in the coming years lol.

I think making co-sleeping illegal is pretty silly. What are the cops going to do? Go from house to house, peak in the windows or something, and scope out the sleeping arrangements? As long as co-sleeping is being done properly & responsibly (i.e. NO drugs or alcohol involved) then there should be no problem.

Nikkole - posted on 12/28/2010

1,505

31

49

yea i co slept with my son i just made sure the sheets were really tight and my son slept next to me and (im a very light sleeper) He is 3 now so if it is done properly and you know how you sleep and you dont sleep crazy and kick and roll babies will be ok i mean cribs can be dangerous to!

[deleted account]

I was against co-sleeping when the girls were babies and my son spent the first 5 months of his life sleeping ON me. ;) Co-sleeping is only dangerous w/out proper precautions. Otherwise it's just a personal choice.

Amanda - posted on 12/28/2010

697

15

25

it can be dangerous if proper precautions aren't taken, just like a crib can be dangerous if proper precautions aren't taken (checking for malfunctioning parts, mattress fit, etc...). Making co-sleeping illegal would not likely stop a drunken or drugged up mom from doing it, if the ones mentioned were too drugged up/drunk to realize they were on top of thier babies then they were too drugged up/drunk to even care about a law (if that law were in place)

Rosie - posted on 12/28/2010

8,657

30

321

i'm not a huge fan of co-sleeping. in fact i think it's horrible for MY family, and don't understand how anybody could get any joy out of sleeping with their child, and having that fear of suffocating them lingering over their head. it will never make sense to me.
however, apparantly there are quite a few out there that enjoy this practice (why, boggles the mind, LMAO), and i really don't think it should be banned. there are plenty of studies out there that show co-sleeping is good for a child. i even think there are some that show it's BETTER for a child. so no, it shouldn't be illegal, that's stupid.

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms