Discipline.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/12/2011 ( 134 moms have responded )

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Yes, catchy title eh? I figured after the days of talking about that judge down in Texas we could start yet another debate on types of discipline you use on your kids and what you feel works best. Oh yes and talk about spanking in a calm polite manner.

As for myself I use different types of punishment for my 7 year old (IMO only a crazy person would try to discipline a baby) Usually it's a time out or taking something away from her like her DVD player. I've spanked her a few times in her life or swatted her hand. But I can count those on both hands. Usually it was for running into the street or trying to touch the flames on the gas stove. Come to think of it most of her swats involved the stove at my parents' house.

So anyone else?

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Tara - posted on 11/19/2011

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Having had 6 kids go through toddler stage (well one still in toddler stage) I can say without a doubt that kids don't need any physical punishment or discipline in order to learn right from wrong, safe from dangerous etc.

And that can't just be "my" kids, 6 is a pretty big number and the law of averages would dictate that I would have some "easy" kids and some more "challenging" kids. Which is indeed the case.
I have heated with a wood stove for most of my adult life, at one point we had an air tight woodstove, an old operating cook stove and a fireplace, all on the same floor of the house. And I raised two toddler in that house from birth through to 5 or 6 years old.
We also used warm mugs of warm fluid to teach hot. From a very young age they understood the phrase "careful, that's hot". I never spoke to my kids in baby language like "Ohhhh HOT HOT... No Touch.. HOT" just as I didn't slap or tap or swat their hand. I treated them with the idea that they had some innate intelligence, something in their genes that allows for them to learn things like this.
I see it as part of our survival instincts.
My crawling babies knew not to crawl too close to the fireplace because they could feel the heat from it.
I have a friend who won't let her toddlers ever touch the stove, she tells them "HOT, NO TOUCH, HOT" even when it's not on. Tell me that's not confusing as hell! Her idea is that if she tells them all the time they will never risk touching it when it is on.
To me she is just creating kids who either don't know the difference between hot and cold or kids who think their mom doesn't know the difference between hot and cold. lol
I don't need to swat, tap, hit, etc. any of my kids, never have.
I have never seen it as an option for discipline.
I look at it this way.
Is it ever okay to hit, pop, swat, smack, tap, spank a:
Elderly person, a mentally disabled child, adult or elderly person, a dog, a cat, a horse, a teenager, a young adult, a co-worker, a friend, etc. etc.
There is NO place in society anywhere, that it is OK to do these things to other people etc. so what is the point in doing it to our children.
For me the goal is simple. I want my kids to grow into independent, free thinking, confident individuals who have the skills and competence to live in a violence free society, to make choices and decisions based on their knowledge and understanding of the real world and cause and effect etc.
I want my kids to be empathetic and kind, I want them to have the emotional intelligence to be able to make sound decisions based on their intelligence in general.
To me physical punishment is like a weird blip on an otherwise normal course of development. Throughout infancy we don't (hopefully) use our bodies in a negative way towards our children (babies) ie: we cuddle them not hit them. Then they hit this in between stage where some people start to use their bodies in both negative and positive ways. As in "this hand can rub your back to soothe you but it can also leave a red mark and a sting on your bum. Your behaviour dictates how I use my hand".
Then they hit the older years and hopefully that kind of punishment stops and we expect them to be mature, make good choices and abide by us. But there can no longer be any threat of physical punishment to them (ideally people don't hit their teens or tweens or any kid but you know what I'm getting at).
Then adulthood where it is against the law to hit another adult. But then they become parents and for some weird reason society accepts physical punishment of ones own children...
Still baffles me.

Jenny - posted on 11/17/2011

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About the hot tea cup vs spanking, I agree with the hot tea cup as a way of teaching what is hot and not to touch.



I've done this idea with my kids. I showed my one year old that the stove was hot by putting her finger to it as it was heating up (I touched it first to make sure it wasnt hot enough to burn) and quickly pulled her hand back and said "Ouch, that's hot! See, that's Hot, don't touch!". That was all it took, and from then on when I said "ouch, Hot, dont touch" she would always stop what she is about to do. I've never been able to use a childgate on my kitchen and I have not had one accidental burn from either of them.



Doing this is different to giving them an equally unpainful swat to the wrist to try teach them, because it is using one of their senses - touch, to teach them about what is hot and what is cold. I've done this with the fridge too, put there hand in the fridge for a second "See, that is cold! Too cold!".

That is teaching them, not disciplining them or punishing them and that is how a child actually learns. What is the child learning from a smack? That they will get a smack if they don't listen to you. But they are not actually learning anything useful about the world around them that they can implement into other situations.



The main point I want to make here is that I do not see the need to resort to spanking in situations like touching a hot oven or running out into the street.

I've never had to do this with either of my two kids and I dont see it as a necessary measure.

It is enough to tell them that it is dangerous to run into the road, and show them how concerened you are, teach them how to cross the road safely, and restrain them if they put themselves in danger.



My LG hates being safe on the road, she used to always pulls her hand away from mine and tries to run away - she's 18months. I just hold her hand in a very firm grip (I actually hold her wrist as this gives me a better grasp) and contine to cross the road. If I am able to, I will just pick her up and carry her if she is really resistant.

I did the same with my LB and he learnt very quickly to hold hands when crossing the road and he does not complain ever about it, he knows that it is the "safe" way to cross. He's three.



Anyway, I was able to do it without smacking, so I know it is possible to get the message across without hitting. And yes, I do know that every child is different and learns differently. Doesn't matter, if you decide not to smack then you will discipline all of your children without smacking them, no matter how different they are one from the other, or whether they have ADHD or Autisim or anyother condition.



And no, I am not anti-spanking because I have slipped up on this too, but I do not see it as an effective discipline tool. I see it a bit like yelling, it happens when we let anger and frustration get the better of us, or if we need to take action then and there and don't know what else to do.



However it is disapointing to hear people say that they do not smack, execpt for when the child is going to touch a hot oven or is about to run into the road. If you don't smack out side of those reasons, give your self more credit and dont give in to old school reasoning about it being better that they get a spanking that will pass than to have an accident that will cause a lot more harm.

You do not need to resort to spanking to teach this.

Krista - posted on 11/19/2011

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Yeah...any parent who thinks that their kid will NEVER do wrong, regardless of the method of discipline, is likely in for a very rude awakening.



Even though my kid knows what hot is, I know I've got to be pretty damned vigilant, especially if he's running around and is excited. Kids forget themselves very easily when they're all wound up.



That's why I also laugh during the kid-leash debates at the parents who say that their kid would NEVER run away from them because they taught them not to. Feck, I never ran away from my parents -- I was always good about holding their hands and sticking close by. And then when I was 6, we had gone out to a restaurant and I brought my Cabbage Patch doll with me. While eating, I laid her down on the windowsill. We left the restaurant, crossed the street and were just about to get in the car when I cried, "Martina!!!!", whirled around and dashed back across the road without even thinking. I completely forgot every single thing my parents had taught me, in my panic to get to my forgotten doll.



If I'd been hit by a car, it's not as though anybody could have said, "Oh, they didn't teach her not to run out in the street". They did. And Mom actually even HAD my hand at the time. (Not to say that they should have had a leash on me at age 6, but the story is just to prove a point that even the best-behaved kids can forget themselves in the right circumstances.)



So we do our best, but we should never, ever, ever get cocky. And when it comes to our kids, we should never utter the phrase "My kid would never..." unless we want fate to have a damn good laugh at our expense.

Johnny - posted on 11/19/2011

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LOL at the preventing water burns by teaching hot. My daughter mistakenly pulled a full tea pot over on herself, despite knowing full well what hot meant and knowing to avoid it. But what you can't teach is not being rambunctious. She didn't realize it was there, we should have been more cautious, and a bad accident happened. Yup, it could have been prevented, but then, that is the case with most accidents, shit happens. And no, she did not need to touch hot or get burned to learn about it either. Whenever I read parents suggesting that you can avoid all problems by careful discipline and teaching, I know that they've either got their head up their ass or they have not really had all that much experience with kids. It isn't that those accidents aren't easily preventable, it is that they happen because we make mistakes. If anyone is actually beyond making mistakes, kudos! Otherwise, teach your kids kindly, try your best, and when things don't go right, try not to heap all the blame and guilt onto yourself.

I also have to agree with Tara. Those of us who have chosen not to use physical discipline see it as a line that should not be crossed with other humans. Even though I've been tempted to deck my spouse, he thoroughly deserved it, and it would have taught him a lesson, I know it is just not the right thing to do.

Krista - posted on 11/18/2011

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Jenny, thank you. That's the point I was trying to make. If I had just smacked my son's hand for going near the stove, what has he learned that he can actually apply? Would it keep him from going near the wood-stove? Would it keep him from going near a bonfire? Would it keep him from trying to go near the stove at his sitter's house? Probably not, because all that he would have learned from being smacked is to not go near Mommy while she's at the stove. It doesn't teach him anything about the stove itself and WHY he should not go near it.

But by showing my son what hot actually WAS, there was real learning there. If he sees a fire on TV, he says "Hot!" If I go to open the oven, I just say, "Stand back, honey, it's hot," and he leaves the kitchen. So he not only knows to not touch hot things, he knows WHY he should not touch hot things...which means that I'm teaching him judgment and thinking skills.

Spanking is pure aversion therapy. You are making them create a mental association between one specific action, and pain. That's all. So they won't do that action anymore, but not because there's any real learning as to why they shouldn't. They simply won't do it because if they do, they get hit.

I'm not going to berate a mother for swatting a kid's hand away from a stove. It's likely instinctual, more than anything else, and you have to do what you have to do at the time to keep your kid safe. But after that moment of sheer instinct and heightened emotion has passed, why NOT take some time in a calm moment to teach your kid what "hot" means, and to point out the things in the house that are hot? It might keep you from having to do the smacking all over again when he tries to reach towards the fireplace.

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♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/20/2011

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Oh I kept most of those traits. That's why I moved all the way across the country from NY to BC to be with my husband. We met online back in 2006 and got married this year 3 weeks after our baby was born.

I believe we keep a lot of the same traits children have, but they're toned down as adults and we learn to consider the pros and cons of our actions.

Krista - posted on 11/20/2011

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To a degree. Courage and exploration and bravery are awesome. Sheer recklessness with absolutely no regard for the consequences? Yeah...I had those traits in my early 20's, and I'm pretty glad I eventually outgrew that. ; )

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/20/2011

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I think it's amazing how creative and adventurous children are Krista.

Krista - posted on 11/20/2011

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@Julianne: It's amazing (and more than a little terrifying) how fearless little kids are, isn't it?

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/20/2011

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LOL I can picture that! My brother somehow got himself stuck on the shelf in his closet! My husband also climbed on top of the fridge when he was little.



I just ran with things in my mouth. Also not a good idea.



My 8 month old keeps crawling under her excersaucer and getting stuck!

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I remember climbing on the fridge as a child! My siblings and I were playing stunt man. We would climb up, then dive tuck and roll off of it. Not sure how old we were but it was before school started. My mom near died when she caught us...haha

Krista - posted on 11/20/2011

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Yeah, some kids seem to just have a real knack for getting into the damndest places. My friend once found her 3- year old sitting on TOP of the refrigerator.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/19/2011

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LOL Jeannette and Krista very true! They will, they can they will do it consistantly!

I always keep my little brother in mind when I think of things my kids might do. He was the Harry Houdini of carseats, he escaped from the house and almost fell into the neighbour's pool, he jumped of the shed roof he climbed the swing sets at the park and jumped those ect ect. In short he was the son that makes moms glad they just have girls. So I'm just waiting for the day my daughters decide to jump from my MIL's shed roof just because uncle John did it.

The beauty of parenting is that there is no right or wrong way to parent your children because every child is different. And the nice thing about this site is we can learn about different ideas and techniques that we can pick and choose from to decide if we may want to try a different approach with one child if another isn't working.

Jeannette - posted on 11/19/2011

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Krista, that is the most realistic thing stated: "We should never utter the phrase 'My kid would never...'" They most assuredly will! ;)

Jenny - posted on 11/19/2011

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Even adults can forget themselves in a momemtary panic.



You can't child proof your kid :)



Meggy, you're doing the same thing about the hot-teacup method. You said "That to me is abuse I don't care what the rest of you all say."



That is indirectly saying that whoever teaches this way is abusing their kid.



But you know what, who cares? I know that I do not abuse my kids by showing them what is hot or not, so I'm not offended by what you say there. That is fine if that is how you feel about it and I understand that you would not choose to do that with your kids. That's good, at least you know where you stand on it.



I think it starts to get personal and feel like an attack, when we try to take control of what others can and can't do.



Even though I would love to be in a society where no one smacks their kids, I recognise that not all people have the patience of saints when it comes to kids, and all people come from differnet walks of life and are at different points in discovery about parenting. As long as it is not actual abuse I don't think its fair to try to control it. I would hate to have my kids taken away from me because I slipped up and gave them a smack in a momentary lapse of judgement.



Meggy, if you've only ever smacked your child 7 times in her 7 years, don't beat yourself up about it, and don't put yourself in the same boat as people who do smack on a regular basis. To me you actually sound like an non-spanking parent, but one who sympathisies (understands or whatever the correct word is) with those who do. Overall, I would say that you are a non-spanker because you look for other ways to discipline. :)

Johnny - posted on 11/19/2011

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oh, I totally agree Krista. I just find these threads always turn it a "I spank my kid so he would never do wrong" or "I teach my kids well so they would never do wrong" kind of argument. I was just trying to remind people that no method gets perfect results. The same thing would have happened to Michaela regardless of discipline method. It happened because we were less than cautious for a moment.

I too showed Michaela what warm and hot meant by touching a mug when she was younger. Not scalding her. She's very clear on the concept. I totally agree that I didn't need to spank her to get across the point. I know my kid well enough to know that if I'd spanked and not explained, she would have burned herself on purpose a lot earlier just to show me up.

Krista - posted on 11/19/2011

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@Johnny: Well exactly. There will still be cases where accidents happen, and you can't really teach kids to not be rambunctious. It happens to the best of us, and goodness knows you're a good and careful mother.

This was talking more about the generalized "teaching kids to stay away from the stove and the fireplace" kind of learning. And personally, I found it to be really effective to just show Sam what hot meant (and no, Meggy, the liquid was NOWHERE near hot enough to burn him), rather than spank him anytime he got near the stove. Does that mean that there's a 100% guarantee that he'll never burn himself? Of course not. No matter WHAT parenting method you use, there are no guarantees that it will work every single time. But overall, it's proving to be effective. He stays away from the stove and oven when they're on, he stays away from the woodstove when we have a fire on, and he even points out when a TV show or a picture in a book depicts something that's hot. And I didn't have to hit him in order for him to learn that.

So it IS do-able.

Tara - posted on 11/19/2011

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For those of us who do not use physical discipline with our children feel that to do so is a breach of trust between a parent and child. I do not feel someone who swats their child's hand to teach hot is an abusive parent, I do feel they are neglectful. Simply because they are neglecting their child's mental capabilities in favour a more direct and often reactionary method of punishment.
Discipline is about learning what is acceptable in life, punishment is about paying for what you do that is not acceptable in life.
We must do both, but if you do a lot of the discipline in natural ways, in ways that continue to encourage positive thought processes and self control rather than obedience because "I said so" you will often have less punishment to dole out.
We have rarely ever used time outs, never physical force etc. we teach our kids the virtues we want to see in them, the morals and lessons we offer are based on real life scenarios. They learn through example, they learn through positive guidance. When they happen to make mistakes which is often and less often as they grow, they are reminded of what kind of behaviour we know they are capable of and why we want to see that type of reaction rather than the undesirable one.
Kids want to be kind, generous, happy, and they want to learn. Teaching them all these things is easy to do, and when they aren't getting the message or need reminding that is what we do.
There is no need for severe repercussions for unwanted behaviour, it happens in all of us as we find out place in the world. But when we encourage lateral thinking skills, empathy and when we engage their intelligence in our parenting we see amazing results.

Rosie - posted on 11/19/2011

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what is LMFAOTIC? i've been sitting here trying to figure it out and can't, hehe

Rosie - posted on 11/19/2011

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meggy, while it's hard to not get upset when somebody says something that you have done is considered abuse, in the technical terms of debate if someone isn't directly saying "meggy you abuse your kid" there's not much you can do about it. they are simply stating their opinion, just as you would state yours. it's how debate works...somebody is always bound to disagree with someone elses opinion. if everybody agreed it wouldn't be fun!! ;)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/19/2011

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LMFAOTIC, this is a debate. Part of a debate is justifying why you do something.

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I'm on a high horse because i don't agree with you...lmao

If you would stop justifying your ways of discipline because i simply voiced my opinion we could all get past it and continue with the debate...



"so I'm a bad parent in your eyes because I don't parent like you feel I should." Seriously???? wtf??

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umm i didn't accuse you of anything. I said I think spanking is abuse. I am not saying anything against your discipline personally, so cry me a river and get over it. Stop reading into things so much...personal offense has no place in debates :)

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/19/2011

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Julianne, cry me a river, build a bridge and get over with it. You're acting as though all people who spank whip out a belt and whack their children with it at the slightest provovation. You've accused me of abusing my daughter when I swatted her hand and you're acting as though your way of discipline is the ONLY way even though even other non spankers have said it isn't. And you're treating me like I'm an idiot for not teaching my children the way you do which is very unbecomming of a moderator I may add.



There is no bloody way in hell I will EVER teach my child hot by example. Even if God Himself came down from Heaven and told me to do it. That to me is abuse I don't care what the rest of you all say. That doesn't make me a bad parent, an abusive parent or a mental defect so I do wish you'd knock off the derisive tone when you reply to what I've said. I've yet to say anything derogoratory about you or your parenting skills and yet because I have spanked my child about 8 times in her 7 years I'm a bad parent in your eyes because I don't parent like you feel I should.



I don't know if you have actually read through any of my posts aside from what you don't agree with, but I use a lot of other techniques besides swatting my child on the bum and I would appreciate if you would focus on that instead of saying I'm a fool, abusive or any other unflattering adjective you seem to feel fit to add about someone you know jack shit about. Get off your high horse.

[deleted account]

"Is it ever okay to hit, pop, swat, smack, tap, spank a:
Elderly person, a mentally disabled child, adult or elderly person, a dog, a cat, a horse, a teenager, a young adult, a co-worker, a friend, etc. etc.
There is NO place in society anywhere, that it is OK to do these things to other people etc. so what is the point in doing it to our children."


Its like everyone has their rights protected, even animals. Our most innocent and precious members of society don't. Its so sad.

[deleted account]

Meggy, only a fool would put their childs hand on a SCALDING hot tea cup. Noones burning their child here... Considering you boil the water, let it steep for 5-10 minutes(it doesn't stay boiling while sitting) then add cold soy milk from the fridge. Then wrap your hands around it to carry it (in the process seeing its not SCALDING). Being cooled enough to drink (no 1st degree burns in my esophagus) then saying here "Gabby feel this...this is hot it can hurt you if its too hot". Where is the danger there....I would never boil the kettle and forcefully make her hold a cup of water directly out of it. I didn't even forcefully put her hand on the tea cup. Kudos to you for being able to drink tea hot enough to 1st degree burn you though. lol

Jenny - posted on 11/18/2011

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I think they can start to put two and two together and work out that you want them to stay away from fire because it is hot and they can feel the heat when they get a bit close.
But why need to smack if there is a way to get the message idea without that.
And I would never put my child near a scalding hot teacup. I see your concern there (Meggy), it is too easy to get an accidental burn that way. Maybe the example was not the best, but it does sort of get the point across about letting the child experience what the feeling is in a safe way instead of just swatting away.

Johnny - posted on 11/18/2011

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With my daughter, I have found that disciplining with clear explanations (now that she is old enough to understand POTENTIAL consequences) and positive modeling works best. She is exceedingly strong willed and could out shout, out stubborn, sit through any time out, and put up with losing any privilege just to win. I've never spanked her, it is just not the right thing for us. And by the time she was 2, and it became legal, she would have just gone and told anyone that would listen that "mommy hit me", which would have been really pleasant. So rather than engaging in a battle of wills, I find engaging her in a goal we can work toward, and that she needs to work with me on is actually what gets results. When she can see how not obeying me would cause her problems and how obeying me can lead to positive outcomes, she is easy to deal with. It took some intensely frustrating periods to get the message through, but it generally works now. I still lose my temper occasionally, like I said, she is very strong-willed, but I find it really bites me in the ass. I have also found that ensuring that she is adequately rested and does not have blood sugar dips or spikes makes an enormous difference in how she acts. Raving banshee to loving and engaging.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/18/2011

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I explained a few times no touch, then the swat and don't touch hot. She helps bake now at 7 and knew not to go near other stoves at 3 because we did say don't touch, hot.

I just don't like the idea of putting a hand on a hot cup because as I've said, I boil my water when I make tea and have scalded and given myself 1st degree burns touching my own teacup (and starting my car in Texas, totally different story) so that's why I cringe at putting my child's hand on a tea cup.

Krista let me also say that my parents have a fire place in their family room which was also my older daughter's play area until we moved in June. The first time we had a fire in the fire place we told my older daughter don't touch it's hot and she listened without having to be shown what hot is. I don't know if she just remembered the swat when she was told not to touch the gas stove or remembered that the flames from the gas stove were also hot, but she didn't climb up on the hearth or get near the glass. Also when my dad would add more wood she'd stand near the opening and felt the heat so she did feel hot.

I do teach with a few different methods. My 7 year old learned that she needed gloves or mittens playing in the snow because snow is cold by trying to make a snowball without gloves or mittens when she was 4. That was her choice and she taught herself it wasn't a good one.

My husband and I have learned that youtube videos can help deture some behaivours as well and have had my 7 year old watch those.

One thing my husband wants to do but I've put my foot down is use a spray bottle on the baby because that's what his mom did. Never mind that the end result was that he was afraid of the barber. The baby is not a cat I told him. So we spray the cat when it claws or gets on things. We redirect the baby

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/17/2011

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I don't know. I'd assume in public. But what if you're traveling across the country near the child's 13th birthday. I don't know if it accounts for time zone changes LOL.

Ange - posted on 11/17/2011

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so if we are aloud to spank our kids from 2 to 12 (hehe definitly a good thing) can we do in public or is it just in the privacy of our own homes last time I heard it was just in the privacy of my own home....

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/17/2011

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Ok. But make sure you do it because she'll appreciate knowng what she did right.



I'm tempted to email the other Brownie leader and tell her I'm not coming if Abby doesn't finish with one chore and stop acting up. But then Brownies would suck because only my 7 year old and one other girl show up. We have more leaders than girls!



Oh a way that might work to get your child to stop running around for a few minutes is to hold up your hand. That's what we do in Brownies to get the girls to pay attention.



ETA: I found out that in Canada you can only spank between the ages of 2 and 12 so I'm still in the clear if I have to spank LOL. But I like trying out different non physical techniques first

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 11/17/2011

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That's good Ange. Later you should tell her how much you enjoyed watching the movie with her. I do that with my 7 year old. Also the I appreciated that you *fill in the blank* or whatever she did.

Ange - posted on 11/17/2011

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I have to say Jenni I have not had any problems with her tonight she has been good and we are sitting watching a movie with a friend of hers knowck on wood this keeps up

Jenny - posted on 11/17/2011

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Trying getting a copy of the book How to talk so Kids can listen and how to listen so Kids can Talk.
It deals with a lot of unwanted bechaviour and has a unique spin on how to deal with it. I found it really opened my mind up to new ways of disciplining. For lying it talks about not putting the child in the role of Liarand finding ways to make it possible for the child to tell the truth.
And I know you probably dont do these things, but here's a short list of what not to do with lying children.
Don't demand that they tell you the truth.
Don't call them a liar.
Don't punish them for lying.
That whole combination just seems to make it worse.

Don't say things like "Did you? Are you sure you didn't? Don't lie to me this time."
Just get straight to the point and state the truth. The example they use is "Neil, Mrs Osgood told me you picked her tulips."
"No, I didn't. It wasn't me!"
"Neil, she saw you. She was standing at the window."
"You think I'm a liar. She's the one that's a liar!"
Neil, I don't want to talk about who's lying and who isnt. The thing is done. For some reason you decided to pick three of her tulips. Now we have to think about how to make amends."
Neil started to cry. "I wanted some flowers for my teacher."
I said, "Oh. So that was why. Thank you for telling me what happened. Sometimes its hard to tell the truth - especially if you think it might get you into trouble."

And then the story goes on about Neil and his mum coming up with a way to make amends. (Delivering a pot of flowers to the teachers doorstep with an apology note on it.)
I don't know if your girls, lying is anything like that, but just read through the example and see if you can find ways to talk about it differently to enable her to tell the truth.

Ange - posted on 11/17/2011

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I will try that and see how it goes and with any luck it will help out alot thank you Jenni I appreciate the help on this

Jenni - posted on 11/17/2011

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I actually find time-ins work amazingly. If my kids are acting out... we do a fun family activity together. It makes for good conversation afterwards... we talk about the memories we made... it really helps strengthen relationships.

Jenni - posted on 11/17/2011

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If it's just towards you. Then maybe your relationship could use a bit of sprucing up. Maybe she just wants more of your time and attention. You could try "time ins" which is basically spending fun, one-on-one time with her and bonding time.

Jenni - posted on 11/17/2011

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If she lies about silly things or for attention. I personally would ignore it by saying calmly: "I know that isn't true. I don't feel like talking to you when you lie. But I'd be happy to talk to you again when you can tell the truth."

When she does share a true story with you. Make sure you show her how interested you are in it. Ask lots of questions and engage her in the conversation. If she is a "story teller liar" it's probably just for attention and she thinks if she lies, she makes the story more interesting. So make sure you show her more attention for 'truthful' stories over 'false' ones.

Jeannette - posted on 11/17/2011

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Jenni, that is something we used often to encourage our kids to tell us the truth. Sometimes, depending on what they were lying about, I would tell them they would not lose any privileges if they would just tell me the truth so we could move forward with good information.

Ange - posted on 11/17/2011

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she doesn't get punished for be good she doesn't get punish for telling the truth and she knows I don't know why for the last month she has to be so ignorant towards me all the time she not like this with her real dad the same with her Step dad and real mom just with me and I have done nothing but been good to her and this is the attitude I get

Jenni - posted on 11/17/2011

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Is there a way you could work it where when she *does* tell the truth, she is punished less?

Like tell her, if you tell me the truth... you are only grounded from TV for the next hour. If you lie, you will be grounded from it for the day.

Jenni - posted on 11/17/2011

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Me too Ange, I can be very critical at times... but I see the direct link between me being overly critical and my son's overall behaviour. He is highly sensitive to it. His behaviour can become unimaginably difficult when I'm being negative or critical with him. I tweak it and start being more encouraging and positive instead and I notice immediate results and huge improvements in his behaviour. Like night and day.

Ange - posted on 11/17/2011

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She lies about everything and the stupidest of things in her minds eye she figures if she tells the truth then she will get in real big trouble but always catch in the lie and we sit down and talk about why it is so bad to lie so I have been showing her how it feels not to be believed and not be trusted she is the type of learner that has to experience it before learning it and talking about it ain't working out

Ange - posted on 11/17/2011

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well every other week she spends at her real mom's she pulls the same crap there... besides her going back and forth between the two house all the time I can not see anything else going on she won't talk to me or her dad or any one else on that matter so we do not have a clue...

yes I know I am on the negative side but I have always been that way all my life.... Not a positive person....but I do try to positive but it is extremely hard and I am working on that....

Jenni - posted on 11/17/2011

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One thing I've found so far that helps is *when* you have your talks. I spend one on one time with my two older ones. Where we just talk... have an hour conversation about this and that. During that conversation, I'll throw in: "Wow, you know... I really liked how yesterday you did this. Or, you know it's really not cool when you do this because blah blah blah might happen... perhaps you can try this instead."

I wish I knew more about the "lying" thing. I haven't experienced it yet with my kids. When does she lie? To get out of trouble? Or just randomly?

Have you tried Logical Consequences? Consequences directly relating to the behaviour?

It's really hard being the step parent. I have a step daughter myself and since I'm not the main care provider, it makes it tougher.

Also, a lot of times stress in split families can contribute a lot to negative behaviour.

Jenni - posted on 11/17/2011

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I was just using a random example. Not saying a child *always* learns from adults. Just a "for the most part."

Is she going through something personal?

And yeah, negativity can be a vicious cycle *we all* as parents, fall into from time to time. I've found myself in it enough times. I just give myself a slap once I come to the realization. Not always easy. But just saying you're not alone in it.

Ange - posted on 11/17/2011

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Jenni I have serveral times it don't work so will go for an hour then back to the same ol' ways..... that is the same with grounding taking things that she really wants away time outs making her sit on the step out side watching her other friends play it doesn't work

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