Every Mom's horror story

Amie - posted on 05/09/2010 ( 23 moms have responded )

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Lisa Kirkman lost her child. This is a story every parent should take heed of though.

Her son was visiting his stepfather in Oregon for the summer. He had been talked to by the police on a few occasions along with a group of kids. Nothing serious, were in an area where it was safe to play, biking without helmets, etc. Since it was a small town (pop. 3,000) they new that Noah (boy's name) was someone new. He also has severe ADHD so that might have made them a little more suspicious, since kids with severe ADHD have trouble making eye contact and fidget a lot.

At the end of the summer when Lisa and their daughter went back to Oregon to pick up Noah they were greated by DHS (department of human services) of Oregon. Noah was taken into custody when they were there to pick him up.
The first explanation given was because he has a large file with social services in Canada. But didn't bother to check any deeper than that. Otherwise they would have found that it was for health services and resources, not for protection services.

Next Oregon officals alleged Lisa abandoned her son in Oregon. Nevermind the fact that he was with his step father and had been granted full medical release in case something happened OR that his step father has parental rights in Canada. They did not realize it did not extend across the border, what parent thinks about that anyway? I'm betting a lot more now.

When all this happened Lisa and her home were investigated by SS here in Canada. They found nothing wrong.

I think the biggest kick to the teeth is the judge hearing this case. He's quoted as saying "This is not a checklist. I'll decide when he gets to go home." This is after Lisa compleleted the mandated home studies, parenting classes and months of therapy.

Lisa is also an activist. For marijuana. Which is speculated to be a reason for the difficulties in Oregon. A lot of people know marijuana is a bigger deal in the states than it is in Canada. She is an editor and writer for Cannabis Culture and Cannabis Health Journal. She opened a medical marijuana dispensary on BC's west coast. She was also sentenced to community service in 2005 for growing medical marijuana for her husband.

She doesn't think DHS took her son because of her history, she does think the judge is keeping him there because of a political agenda. Especially considering DHS has already said they want to send Noah home.

So now, going on 2 years later. Noah is still stuck in the states bouncing around foster homes. (He's been in 4 so far and 3 different schools) He's allowed no visitation with his family and only one 15 minute phone call every 2 weeks that's supervised. They are not allowed to tell Noah they miss him or want him to come home, they've had phone calls cut off for such things before.

It is also interesting to note that Oregon has the highest seizure rate of children out of all 50 states since 1985. They take children into the system at a 70% higher rate than the national average.

Here is an excerpt for a recent article I was reading on this story (I'll include a link at the bottom):
“The Canadian federal government, including Alberta Members of Parliament (MP) Rob Anders and Dan McTeague, DFAIT (Dept. of Foreign Affairs & Intl. Trade) and the Prime Minister’s Office have had several meetings about Noah and are still discussing the situation,” Kirkman said.

“MP Dan McTeague actually brought it up in Question Period in the House of Commons, and Rob Anders sent registered letters to the judge and Oregon Governor Kulongoski, plus several phone calls telling them that he planned on going down to Oregon to pick Noah up.”

There has been no word from Oregon’s leaders, but Judge Leonard is quoted as having stated that he "doesn't care if the Governor or President Obama, himself, tell me to send Noah home, this little Canadian boy will not be leaving this jurisdiction until I say so."

“This sets a dangerous precedent for any Canadian traveling to the US,” says Jordan Champagne, friend of the Kirkman family.

“It also is very significant politically. The state of Oregon has basically said that the Alberta government doesn't know what is best for its citizens and they need to intercede. What are they really doing? They are punishing this innocent boy by keeping him from his country, his family and his faith.

"This needs to stop. He is a Canadian and he belongs in Canada.”

http://www.salem-news.com/articles/may09...

The Missing children society of Canada has encouraged all Canadians to contact their elected officials to ask for Noah's return. That we keep contacting the media so they keep pressing the issue. The next hearing for the family is on May 28th in Oregon.

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So ladies.. What do you think? Personally I'm appalled at how this was handled. It was one fumble after another and now a slimy judge has gotten his hands on the case. He's using it to make a point and further damaging a child in the process.

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Johnny - posted on 05/10/2010

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Here in Canada this story was on the news. And it has also made the local news in Oregon because a friend of mine from there had mentioned it when I saw her at Christmas. I've seen several different news stories on several different channels. Our media is quite a bit less likely to go all "OJ Simpson" on a story. So things tend to get covered when something is happening, like a court hearing, and not really in between.

As for our government not taking action to help, this is completely par for the course. I can not remember a case of a single Canadian in trouble in a foreign country (even if it was pretty obvious they were innocent or being victimized) in which our current government has stepped in to help out. It is actually the source of quite a bit of outrage here. A year or so ago there was an ill older woman who was being held in a Mexican prison because the man she had been working as a cook was being prosecuted for fraud & theft. They decided to hold his help too. She was very sick, and her family was constantly trying to get media attention on the issue, and our government just let her stay there rotting in prison. They have done nothing to help on of our citizens who is currently awaiting caning in a Saudi prison for dating in public. It is shameful and they do nothing. So the fact that they have done little, if anything, to help in this case is just their usual modus operandi.

Most Canadians should be aware that if they get into any sort of trouble outside our country (unless you happen to be in Haiti after the earthquake or Lebanon during the war), Foreign Affairs will not do anything at all to help you.

Esther - posted on 05/10/2010

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I can't shake the feeling that we're missing something here either. The story just doesn't make any sense whatsoever. I don't buy that some lone judge can just detain any child from any country for almost 2 years for no reason whatsoever without someone stepping in. It doesn't add up. There must be more to the story.

Dana - posted on 05/10/2010

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I think it's wrong that this child is being moved from one home to another but, I also think there's more to this story than what's being shown. The whole thing sounds shady and I know I for one wouldn't wait two freaking years to come to the forefront with it.

Amie - posted on 05/10/2010

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Oh yes, our conservatives suck balls. =) That's about as far as I'll take it though. Carol said it much better than I am able too. My bias would clearly show.

Those two stories she referenced though, are not the only ones. They take forever, they drag ass and while they are involved, immediate needed results are never there.

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Dana - posted on 05/11/2010

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Wow, Carol, that's insane and interesting to know. Thanks for answering my questions.

Suzette - posted on 05/10/2010

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Wow Carol, I had no idea that Canada was like that. Of course, what we see on the news is far different and our coverage is always about the negative, at least 9 times out of 10 it is. I usually get my news by cruising the internet as I don't feel like sitting at the television watching about some idiot celebrity who let a boob pop out or flashed their panties cause they were drunk. News should be news, not celebrities gone retarded. lol

But I think that's why when Americans (not sure about others!) haven't seen something reported (in their area) we may not believe that there's a big enough deal being made about it so we're not getting the full story. I know I was wondering why there wasn't more out on it, my husband hadn't heard of it and he's a news junkie.

Still, I don't understand why they didn't take the sister, that doesn't make ANY sense whatsoever.

Amie - posted on 05/10/2010

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I already answered that question Dana. It is getting coverage now but still not as much as it should. Which is another reason I've been telling people about it. Our government is involved, it's part of my OP. ^ Just because they get involved though does not mean automatic results.

The Oregon still side thinks they have a right to keep an illegal child and put him into foster care. What about all the Mexican minors they ship back every year? Why is this boy being treated differently?

And on that other side Dana, since you believe you aren't getting the full story, is the rub. You and I both don't know we are getting the full story until it is finished. I happen to believe the mother, you don't. How is making a media frenzy out of a half story any good? (ACORN ringing any bells?) It has been covered by CTV and CBC though, I'm unsure if Global has covered it. These are our three main media outlets. All three have written and reported what they can. However a lot of people are like you, since they can't get the other side of the story from DHS, automatically don't believe her. Which then leads them to not look at the bigger issue.

The Judge could comment and has. His comments lead nowhere except to believe he is a pompous ass who figures he can do whatever he wants even if the President orders him to send Noah home. DHS is not allowed to comment, just as our workers here are not allowed to comment, on cases.

How anyone can not see it's legit is beyond me. He is a Canadian citizen, the US has no authority to hold him, let alone put him into the system there. If his mother is unfit, that is for our government to decide not a foreign one.

Dana - posted on 05/10/2010

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If it's all on the up and up then why isn't your Government involved and why isn't the whole country up in arms?

As far as it being helpful to contact the media...I'll switch it around. If this were a boy from the US and Canada was wrongfully holding him hostage, our media would be all over it, it would be all you heard about until Canada stepped up and did something. We'd basically shame Canada, into doing what was right. Provided what we're hearing is the truth and not a one sided story. Which again brings me to wonder, if it's all legit then why isn't it a bigger story. What's the hold up?

Amie - posted on 05/10/2010

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How would contacting the media be helpful though? Especially in a situation such as this.

Even in the last 6 months since they've went public they've gotten little coverage. No one wants to really touch the story because it is one sided, DHS is not allowed to comment on cases. No matter which country you're in, no worker is allowed to talk about it in any great length.

What I have seen is a lot of people thinking she's hiding something. Even in the group I posted about for this. Some comments were removed but the answers were left in place. It's obvious some people have their nose bent out of shape about her because she's an activist. Some don't believe her simply because they can't fathom something like this would happen.

Apparently it does though, no matter what you think about the mother or father in a case like this (which is not why I brought it to debate), the US has far overstepped their bounds.

Dana - posted on 05/10/2010

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Yes, I don't see any reason for the US to have him. He should be sent back to Canada for them to decide whether his mom is fit or not.
I still think the mom's story is shady and her "innocence" seems a little off. I also think that if my son was kept in another country and I felt it was not right, the very first thing I would do is alert the media. If you think something isn't being dealt with correctly then why would it make it easier for your child to keep quiet? We're talking about two big Governments, not some private hostage situation.

Amie - posted on 05/10/2010

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That is exactly the question the family has been trying to figure out. They want to know why, there is no plausible reason for this at all.

I'm more ashamed of our conservative government for letting this go on for so long. If they had stepped up in the beginning maybe it wouldn't have been dragged out for so long.

And Dana I would wait as long as I thought I could if it meant it might make it easier in the courts for my child. Any parent would, which is what they did. When it became apparent that being quiet and trying to work it out on their own wasn't working, is when they went public with everything.


I have found though that the judge has now retired as of May 1st. Hopefully the next judge they stand before will speed up the process. He needs to be sent home, there is no good reason for this boy to be held in the states. As I said in a PP, at the very least, he could have been handed over to our government. That was an epic fail on both sides though, for the US not deporting him and for Canada not fighting for one of our young.

Suzette - posted on 05/10/2010

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Dana and Esther are right... unless this is some kind of 'favoritism' thing for Canada, they wouldn't be holding an illegal minor just for the hell of it... there has to be more to the story. Plus, why didn't they take his sister too? His sister is an American citizen - it's actually his half sister, her father is the stepfather who is American. It doesn't make any sense as to why they'd only take him, a Canadian citizen, and leave the sister. If they thought he was in danger, they would've taken her too. As far as I'm aware that's how the U.S. works when they believe that a mother is unfit.



Oh... and the sister is now living in Canada with the mother.

Lindsay - posted on 05/09/2010

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This makes me absolutely sick. The judge definately needs to have his authority taken away if nothing else. Honestly, he needs to be thrown in jail himself. I really hope that the boy does get returned here in a few weeks when the school year is over but I'm afraid if no one in Washington takes the time to stand up to him, it won't happen. I'm glad the family decided to go public with this. Having it out there can only lead to action being taken in the right direction. I can't even begin to imagine what that family is going through. =(

Kate CP - posted on 05/09/2010

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The judge deserves a swift kick to the nuts. That's what *I* think. :P

Suzette - posted on 05/09/2010

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Amie, I'd love to know the answers to the last questions myself. Truthfully, because he is an illegal alien, minor or not, I don't believe that the United States has ANY legal right to him. If I recall correctly, we've deported underage Mexican children back to Mexico when they're found. As well as Cubans... why are we keeping a Canadian child?

(I didn't mean that to sound badly either... I just reread it and it kinda did, it wasn't meant to though... it was meant as, what is this some kind of favoritism thing? Hopefully that makes MORE sense!)

Amie - posted on 05/09/2010

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I think a part of the problem is that it's been going on so long is that this is really not well known about. It's barely been covered.



I do find the judges comments to be quite frightening. Who made him the ultimate authority? I know (well I should say I hope now) here that when SS is involved and they say it's ok for the child to be placed back, they are placed back.



There's a group about this on FB that I found.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=259988792133&ref=ts



Lisa Kirkman is am admin and does reply on there. If anyone can point a person in the right direction it would probably be her. If not I'm sure she'd be glad for the ideas, like the petition to take to the judge.



Something interesting I read on the group too.



Since Noah is an illegal alien, for all intents and purposes, in the US; Why was he not handed over to immigration? Why was he not handed over (at the very least) to our Canadian government for them to either put him in foster care or determine if he could go home? Why are American tax dollars being spent on this?

Carolee - posted on 05/09/2010

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They need to remove that judge from his position. Nobody that would do that to a kid solely for political reasons (as it appears to be) should be able to decide or rule on anybody's future.

Debbie - posted on 05/09/2010

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Thats just plain awful :) Why cant they spend all this time, money and resourses on people who actually need it?

Suzette - posted on 05/09/2010

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I agree with Sara and with Jodi, this is ridiculous. We hear about American kids getting stuck in other countries when they're taken illegally, but we don't hear about these kinds of cases. (Gee I wonder why?!)



I've studied Law (enough to have my Associates in Paralegal Studies) but I did NOT know this was legal. Of course, I haven't studied every state either, I've studied generally, and to have a degree for a specified state an individual has to take other classes. I studied mostly Arizona, some Florida. (Basically statutes and such.)



I didn't even realize Oregon's seizure rate was that high, that's asinine!!! This Judge is definitely on a political agenda and needs to be stopped. If there was some type of petition going around for Americans, i would sign it in a heartbeat. What a bunch of bull.

Jodi - posted on 05/09/2010

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That poor little kid being used for some political agenda. That's really sad. I don't know much about the judicial system in the US, but this is just wrong.

How absolutely heartbreaking. Sorry, I am a bit teary over this story.

[deleted account]

Geez. I hear stories about American kids getting stuck in foreign countries when one parent or grandparent illegally takes them there. It's horrific. Of course this case won't be publicized here in America. Makes my stomach sick.

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