FACT ABOUT ME: Everyday I pray for children in atheist & agnostic households... & their parents to...

♏*PHOENIX*♏ - posted on 08/23/2011 ( 215 moms have responded )

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They don't know or understand how good & POWERFUL our God is but I hate knowing that their ignorance will eventually become their demise.


What would you say to this lady??

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Jenni - posted on 10/06/2011

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@ Ellen- It is described by Atheists as 'fairy tales' or 'fairy tale creatures' because that's how we perceive most religions, as myths comparable those things. To us it holds no more weight than someone saying they believe in faeries or Zeus or Krista's invisible Pink Bunny.



But yet *some* (and I say *some* referring to the woman in the OP) think we should give what we perceive as a myth of fairy tale credence because they hold their belief in high regards.



We're expected to keep our opinions and how we perceive religions to ourselves because we might insult someone by saying *why* we don't believe what they do?



I'm sorry but it is impossible for me to describe what organized religions mean to me without referring to them as myth or fairy tale. Because that's what I believe they *are*! I'm not going to tip toe around that fact in a debate forum because I might offend someone by simply telling them what I think of organized religion.



Having a religion does NOT make your beliefs exempt from criticism and scrutiny.



If I said; according to my religion all puppies are nuisances and should be eradicated on sight, the FSM wills it so. Should I not expect my religion to be scrutinized and criticized? Or should my beliefs in the Flying Spaghetti Monster be accepted and never questioned?



Religion is a belief, it is an opinion. No other opinions or beliefs are free from criticism, scrutiny or ridicule even. Just because you hold your belief in your god in high-esteem, doesn't mean others should have to.



I don't purposely refer to religion as a fairytale comparable to other fairy tales or myths with the intention to insult, bully, antagonize... what have you. I am past grade school antics. I don't make the comparison to downplay anyone's beliefs. It IS what I think of those beliefs.



So *respect* my opinion/belief that I think gods/deities are myths and fairy tales. That's my belief as an Atheist and I demand that it is respected.



If it's ok for you to believe that your god is real. It's ok for me to believe your god is a myth. It's a two way street when it comes to respecting opinions.



And who says you don't have a *right* to believe what you want? Obviously, you do. But respect that we also have the *right* to believe what we want about gods/deities.



This is a debate forum, it's a place where we take the kid's gloves off and can express what we really feel about taboo subjects. It is not a place where everyone sits idly by and respects everyone's beliefs on the topic without question. We question, we scrutinize, we critique opinions.

[deleted account]

"Unless, this is directed at those who believe Christians are sheep and I do not believe I have read anyone on here calling Christians sheep this is just a general statement, YOU YOURSELF created Atheism guess what you are? Someone had to come up with the idea of Atheism for it to be. You are following someone elses idea that God does not exist. You may have your reasons for not believing in God but, the general idea that God does not exist was thought up by someone else."

it is the rejection of a claim. your religion is making a specific claim. I reject it for lack of evidence. No different than you rejecting the fact that as you read this, there are invisible leprechauns dancing merrily on your desk singing, 'A Nation Once Again." You are naturally rejecting that claim for lack of evidence. I do the same to your religion along with all the others.

[deleted account]

I agree with the others posters about care with Fb content- good advice on FB is "Dont say anything on FB that you wouldnt shout out in a crowded room"

Krista - posted on 08/29/2011

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Posting it on your wall isn't all that far removed from yelling it from the rooftops.



How many dumbasses have lost their jobs because they bitched about their jobs in their status updates, forgetting that they had friended their boss?



A Facebook wall is a semi-public space. It's not shouting from a rooftop, but it is akin to shouting in a crowded room. And if I was at a party, and a guest started spewing offensive statements, with absolutely no regard for who might be hearing his words, then I would think him an unmannerly boor. The same goes for one's Facebook page. It's NOT private, and it DOES get splashed onto everybody else's walls, via their news feed. So in my opinion, only idiots will spew offensive blather on their walls, disregarding all of those people who will see it.



Your Facebook wall is not a private diary.

Jenni - posted on 10/04/2011

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Brittany- Atheism means you have no religion. Nobody came up with the concept of not believing in a god/deity. But someone *did* come up with the concept that gods/deities existed.



You're getting into a Russel's Teapot metaphor. If I told you there was a small teapot orbiting the Earth. That is *my* idea. Just because *you* don't believe me that there is a small teapot orbiting the Earth doesn't mean you're following all the people before you who assumed my belief in the teapot is doubtful and without proof.



Now if you choose to believe me and have blind faith in my teapot. Then you'd be following my belief in my Mystical Teapot even though you have no proof it exists. But not believing in my Theory of the Teapot orbiting the Earth does not make you a follower of those who don't believe in it.

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Xtina - posted on 06/11/2012

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I'd kindly thank her for this wonderful thing she was doing, and in return for her asking the magic man in the sky to keep an eye on me and my kids, i would ask the leprechauns to bring her luck, the fairies to chase away bad dreams, and the unicorn to sing her to sleep. :)

Nicole - posted on 10/08/2011

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As a Christian myself, I find it so odd that there are religious people who worry so much about the salvation of others instead of focusing on their own. Spreading the word of God is one thing, and something I totally support, but it is another thing to think you know of another soul's condemnation. Last I checked the Bible, only God is the judge of our eternal souls (if you believe the Bible).

[deleted account]

No Laura, I have respect for people, not fairy tales. If they're gutted over leprechauns, then I sincerely feel sorry for them. I really do and i don't say that with any anger or disgust, just extreme sadness.

I don't think it's healthy to believe in mythology. I know I"m not in the majority on this, I'm ok with that.

Lorraine - posted on 10/08/2011

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If religion is so good how come most wars and deaths are caused by religion at its root? I am agnostic as I cant believe in something I can't see.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/06/2011

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I'd probably say to her... there are 2 'O's in too when it means 'as well as'

Jenni - posted on 10/06/2011

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This particular post is about critiquing the woman in the OP's action and words.



Personally, I could care less if she thinks I'm ignorant and my demise is inevitable. Or that she's praying for me. *Whatever...* but hey, I have a strong opinion and thick skin when it comes to my beliefs that her god is a myth.



My only concern is how her words might affect those she cares about and loves on her Facebook.



Which is exactly the same way I would feel if someone was posting insulting, anti-religious sentiment on their Facebook.

Isobel - posted on 10/06/2011

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That statement CLEARLY is making fun of people who believe in leprechauns which I believe is a reference to the people who truly DO believe in fairies who would be absolutely gutted to read that. YOU clearly have NO respect for those who believe in things different from you.

[deleted account]

Actually you are wrong. If you choose to believe in dancing leprechans I have no problem with that. I won't make fun of you for that. I don't believe in bullying, hating or disrespecting people because of what they choose to believe as so many of you obviously do. I don't feel the need to defend what I believe, just my right to believe it.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/06/2011

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Laura, a zombie Jesus would be kinda neat. But also kinda South Park :)

Krista - posted on 10/06/2011

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I heard the Blessed Bunny's name being taken in vain, and had to come investigate.

But Jen has a point. What if I really, genuinely, 100% DID believe that there was an invisible pink rabbit in my duodenum, helping me poop and blessing me daily? What if a handful of other people truly believed me?

Would you respect my faith?

Or would you consider my faith to be the delusional rantings of a madwoman?

Isobel - posted on 10/06/2011

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which is why most atheists will tell you that there is a good chance that there once lived a man named Jesus...was he raised from the dead to live? (obviously NOT like a zombie as I have previously stated)...probably not

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/05/2011

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There's always some truth to each myth or legend. But that's just my opinion based on years of being raised Catholic and looking at other religions.

Johnny - posted on 10/05/2011

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Oh no, Krista is going to see this and get all upset about her pink duodenum bunny being disrespected again!

[deleted account]

"How about you just respectfully say that you don't agree and leave the disrespectful rhetoric about fairy tales out of it all together? That would be one way you could do it. "

Ellen, please explain to me how one unproven myth is different from another? Is it soley because you believe in it? People can say it but no one out there would REALLY respect my belief in the dancing leprechauns.

Isobel - posted on 10/05/2011

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although there are MANY people who DO believe that fairies exist and they would be disgusted by YOUR comments as well as ours

[deleted account]

How about you just respectfully say that you don't agree and leave the disrespectful rhetoric about fairy tales out of it all together? That would be one way you could do it.

When you choose these words you are making a choice to put people down who choose to believe in God because you choose not to. I believe very strongly in your choice not to have or practice a religion just as I believe strongly in my freedom to choose and practice one. I don't disrespect your choice and feel that you are well within your rights. I don't hate you for your choice. I don't think you are less intelligent, or less anything for that matter; you are just someone who believes differently than I do and I believe very strongly in personal freedom so I support your ability to do so.

I don't feel the need to put you down for believing differently than I do. Why do you feel the need to do this to me?

I

Shea - posted on 10/05/2011

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Smh do me a favor leave me & mine out of those prayers. Thank you very much. People tend to be all knowing..LOL..I thought that was her God's job. Tip ignorance of something is one thing to be judgmental & ignorant in regards to your statements/opinions (world wide) yea not so good.

Mary Renee - posted on 10/04/2011

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not to jump in on this sheep tangeant but I don't believe atheism to be the same thing as "following the crowd" because someone else thought of it first. I think the first man was probably athiest, because who would think of words for God when you don't even have words for food. The absence of belief is not the same thing as the presence of belief. Atheism is not a religion, and particularly not an ORGANIZED religion.

Jenni - posted on 10/04/2011

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I also wanted to add (and then I'll shut up for a bit, ;)



That if this was at all in reference to something I said in another thread about sheep following their shepherd. I didn't mean it as Christians are mindless drones following their shepherd. It was in reference to the metaphor of Jesus and and his followers and in some churches the pressure to convert and invite more "sheep" or "followers" into the congregation.



Maybe I shouldn't have used the sheep metaphor, I can see now how coming from an Atheist it may have been misconstrued.



Being mindless drones, was never in my mind at the time I wrote it. It was based on my own personal experience in church and how I came to understand the metaphor. Which I see as the message to "Spread the word" which was directly pertaining to my beliefs on the subject of the other thread. That the purpose of the letter was to encourage the congregation to "Spread the word".

Jenni - posted on 10/04/2011

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And yup. It goes both ways. Criticism or ridicule of beliefs. But they're opinions and criticism and scrutiny of opinions is what debating is all about.



It's difficult for an Atheist to explain why they don't believe in whatever deity is in question without it coming across as ridicule because most of the reasons they don't believe in a god/deity and usually, specifically organized religion is because they find it ridiculous.



Sometimes, it's from their own experience with religion. Many Atheists, especially in North America and Europe were raised in the church and have become a bit resentful of the things they were taught.



Imagine being taught your entire childhood that if you didn't commit a lot of your time and thoughts to faeries, you'd burn for an eternity. Had your mind twisted on what's reality and what isn't and then come to realize that you had been lied to your entire life about these faeries. You may find yourself a little bitter towards having the notion of faeries existing shoved down your own children's throats or having them indoctrinated and groomed to believe these faeries existed.



Now try explaining to someone who believes in these faeries why you don't believe in faeries because the notion is ridiculous to you.



Of course, I don't believe all religious people are trying to shove their beliefs down other's throats. The OP is just an example of it happening. And the type I usually just dismiss or blow off.



I don't go around to random people and shove my Atheism down their throat. In fact, the only time I talk about religion *at all* is here in Debating Mums. I don't write nasty things about people believing in gods on FB. I don't make fun of religion on FB. I have tact and class. The same goes for politics.



But here on DM it's completely kosher (not to make fun on purpose, but debate) and I will not handle religion with kid's gloves. Feel free to not use kid's gloves when talking about non-religion as well.

Karla - posted on 10/04/2011

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So we are all pathetic sheep?

;-)

joking!



When you take the time to study differing beliefs then you will find your own spirituality and beliefs are ever changing. Even though we are all "sheep" we don't all jump through the same hoops and we aren't all in the same field, and we don't all have the same sheep herder. I'm taking this Sheep thing and running with it; I may start a new belief system, are ewe in?



Sorry, I'm in dire need of some sleep -- I think I'll go count some... well you know. (again, my apologies.)

Brittany - posted on 10/03/2011

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One more thing, I always find funny is when I am called a sheep for following.

Unless, this is directed at those who believe Christians are sheep and I do not believe I have read anyone on here calling Christians sheep this is just a general statement, YOU YOURSELF created Atheism guess what you are? Someone had to come up with the idea of Atheism for it to be. You are following someone elses idea that God does not exist. You may have your reasons for not believing in God but, the general idea that God does not exist was thought up by someone else.

Brittany - posted on 10/03/2011

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"Brittany, I'm not saying it's right on either side. I'm just wondering why it's ok for atheists to make fun of and disrespect religion on com but some get all huffy when someone "throws religion in there face." I absolutely don't agree with this woman posting that on facebook, but I feel like I've read similar stuff about religion many times on com."

Sarah, that is the thing. It is not ok for them do to this. They, not all and I use they in reference to those who do this, do they very thing they ask Christians not to do. Throw beliefs into others faces.

"There's a difference between respecting someone's right to HAVE their religion, and respecting the religion itself"

Krista,
You made the above statement and this is very true. There is a difference. When we ALL, every single person, can learn and respect the actual religion of others, that is when we will achieve harmony. You can respect other people's rights to have, or not to have, religion and still oppress them. If you understand the religion, or why the person has a lack of, then you can respect the religion itself. Respecting the Religion, or lack of, does not mean that you are part of it, it means that you undertsand it, respect it, and support those that believe in it.

I am not a wiz on Religion. I have "studied" many religions and cults and I have even studied Atheism. I strive to understand why someone believes what they do so, I do not make false statements in my head about them. I started doing this after September 11th, my freshmen year in high school. I was living 2 hours from the Twin Tower, 2 hours from DC and about 3 hours from Shanksville Pennsylvania. I wanted to know what God these terrorists believed in and why this God wanted this to happen. What I learned shocked me. I was not expecting to read passages from the Quran promoting love and acceptance.

Since then I did some family digging to find that my ancestors were mostly Pagan (from Ireland), some converted to Catholocisim, some did not. When my great-grandmother came from Ireland she converted to being Protestant.

Over the last few years I have been reading and studying the modern Wiccan Religion and its role. I have work on all Christian Religions (Protestant, of course Catholic, and Orthodox), Satanism, Islam, Atheism, Mormanism, Scientology, and quite a few cult Religions. I will tell you this with 100% truth, each of them have some aspect of being beautiful. I have attended different church services, admitted most of them have been of a Christian type.

Sarah - posted on 10/03/2011

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Johny I don't expect you to see the bible any other way than how you see it. Honestly I shouldn't care at all, but everytime I read such a comment it just rubs me the wrong way. So, thought I would point it out. And, yes, some people of religion might refer to other religions as mythical and fairy tales. But I wouldn't and I don't think many ppl I know would. Actually it's not so much one passing comment that bothers me. It's when people create an entire fictional world rant to try to make a point that religion is dumb. Just my two cents.

Johnny - posted on 10/02/2011

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I just wanted to address the comments about atheists referring to mythical creatures and fairy tales that were made earlier in the thread.....

I do agree that it is offensive to tell people that they are mindless drones, or sheep who can not think for themselves, etc. etc. That is very disrespectful of an individual.

But for atheists, Jesus, as the son of God and the Virgin Mary, is just as much a fairy tale as Allah speaking to Mohammed or as Prometheus stealing fire from Zeus. Non-believers are not striving to be offensive when referring to religious stories as fairy tales full of mythical creatures, this is honestly how they see things. It might not feel nice, but really, there is no nice way to tell a believer that you don't agree that they are right.

All the time I see Christians stating that other religions are fake, false, not real, etc. Especially pertaining to Mormons (Christians most commonly seen as false), Scientologists, or other new "comings" of Christ (see Jesus in South Florida thread). There are all manner of religions that religious people see as false, full of fairy tales and mythical creatures. Atheists just happen to see ALL the religions as such.

So I have to disagree that these comments are problematic. As a non-believer, I refuse to pretend that in any way any religion holds any truth for me. That would be a complete lie and a sham. I do not expect Christians to think that Allah speaking to Mohammed was anything other than a nice mythical tale. So I am not sure why Christians should expect me to see anything from the bible as anything other than an ancient parable.

Krista - posted on 10/02/2011

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I hear you. I don't think it's nice to call religious people mindless followers. For the most part, they're not.

Sarah - posted on 10/02/2011

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Krista, I see where you are coming from, but I still think that comments like that are hurtful and disrespectful to the PERSON who believes in whatever religion is being condemned. I'm not saying its the EXACT same thing as what this women put on facebook, obviously it isn't. I've been called a mindless follower, and seen it on this thread, and many others. To me, that is disrespectful to the actual person, not just to the religion. And honestly, it really shouldn't bother me what anyone else says about it, I know. Because if you are strong in what you believe, no one should be able to make you feel disrespected. Easier said than done, huh?



ETA: I haven't personally been called a mindless follower on COM, but the term has been used to describe people of faith.

Krista - posted on 10/02/2011

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There's a difference between respecting someone's right to HAVE their religion, and respecting the religion itself.

I (and most other atheists, I would say), absolutely respect everybody's right to hold their own faith, or lack thereof.

However, that does not translate into respecting the faith itself. I hold no reverence for any particular religion. And many religious people hold no particular reverence for the fact that I do not believe in any gods.

Besides, you'll have to forgive we atheists for perhaps having a bit of a chip on our collective shoulder. Years of being distrusted, hated, persecuted or killed (in some countries), told that we have no morals or values,told that we're going to hell, told that our children should be taken away from us, and shown in surveys that we're the LAST type of person most people would want leading the country or marrying any given person's son or daughter...well, it kind of makes one a wee bit tetchy.

Sarah - posted on 10/02/2011

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Brittany, I'm not saying it's right on either side. I'm just wondering why it's ok for atheists to make fun of and disrespect religion on com but some get all huffy when someone "throws religion in there face." I absolutely don't agree with this woman posting that on facebook, but I feel like I've read similar stuff about religion many times on com.

[deleted account]

"Octavian even killed Caesarion because, technically once Caesar dies Caesarion became the ruler of Rome, seeing as how he was the only son of Julius.
"

Casesarion was illegitimate under Roman law and not eligible for any inheritance to the best of my knowledge.

[deleted account]

Cleopatra's involvement with Caesar was extremely unpopular and his hubris in bringing her to Rome and having her put on coinage and having her depicted as a goddess was galling to the majority. It was a symptom of what people feared with him - that he was going to choose dictator/king for life. I was probably unclear in my wording and you're right, she was not the main reason for his downffall but she was a clear indicatation of problems.

Brittany - posted on 10/02/2011

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Really? So how do you explain Octavian marching into Egypt and having the Roman Army remove and destroy anything with her name or face on it?

Cleopatra was not the down fall of Julius Caesar. He was his own down fall. In Rome they had three individuals ruling, When Caesar was murdered, by his own men, it was because, he was trying to proclaim himself as dictator. Everything was planned to a T in his death. They even accounted for Antony to try and stop Julius from going to Senate that day and made a plan to distract Antony to keep him from warning Julius.

Octavian even killed Caesarion because, technically once Caesar dies Caesarion became the ruler of Rome, seeing as how he was the only son of Julius.

If I am not mistaken, which I could be, at this time adultery was a crime punishable by death. Julius had committed a serious crime by sleeping with her.

[deleted account]

"The thing about History is people are only going to write down what they want us to know.
"

This statement actually goes 2 ways. As we have no real evidence who wrote the gospels and the evidence shows they were written anywhere from 20-100 years AFTER the supposed death of Jesus and are reportings of hearsay, why is there any credence in them?

[deleted account]

You're kidding right? The Romans had no reason at all to try to wipe her from history. They instead had every reason to keep her in history and vilify her as the woman who destroyed Julius Caeser and Mark Antony. It was completely in their best interests to keep her in their recorded history. I'm not sure at all where you're getting that.

Brittany - posted on 10/02/2011

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The thing about History is people are only going to write down what they want us to know.

Take Cleopatra for example. How HARD did the Romans try to wipe her existence from the face of the Earth. We know close to nothing about her.

[deleted account]

I've done my reading Krista and my research. A good book to break this down is Dan Barker's "Godless"

Krista - posted on 10/02/2011

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You're very possibly right, Jen. I'll confess freely that it's not something I've looked into or delved into deeply, due to it really not being relevant to my life. So my belief that the guy existed is based on pure ignorance.

[deleted account]

"Sadly some Atheists do not believe your above statement. A friend of mine is an Atheist and she messaged me on facebook asking me what proof I had that Jesus ever existed. I asked her if she ever listened in History class. "

I'll sit here and say it. I don't think a Jesus ever existed. I think there were probably several people that was put into 1 person. There are no contemporary records of his existence. Josephus is wide regarded as at best an interpolation or at worst, out right forgery. I can't remember his anme but there was a big time historian IN Jerusalem during the supposed crucifixiton who didn't mention anything about it at all.

Brittany - posted on 10/02/2011

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Sarah,

The individuals you are talking about are those that have no idea what they are talking about. They do not realize that all Christians are not like those from The Westboro Baptist Church. Some tend to not even know the first thing about being a Christian or being an Atheist.

Atheism does not preach hating Christians or any other organized Religion. They simply do no believe God is who the Bible says he is. For those of us who are Christians we should know better then to oppress those who believe different from us.

God teaches us to love EVERYONE! Not every Christian EVERYONE. Homosexuals, Heterosexuals, short people, tall people, skinny people, fat people, white people, black people, people on the other side of the world we do not know and probably will never meet. We are not to judge those who are different because, that is God's job.

Like I said before, it is what is in your heart that counts. We are supposed to question God. This is how we ALL learn is by asking questions.

Yes, it is very annoying when someone who tell you you are oppressing them calls you a moron or tells you that you are wrong.

Brittany - posted on 10/02/2011

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Krista,

"Heh -- not to mention the fact that a LOT of atheists, including myself, do think that Jesus existed and that he was a man of peace and a teacher.

So we're not exactly denouncing him, are we?"

Sadly some Atheists do not believe your above statement. A friend of mine is an Atheist and she messaged me on facebook asking me what proof I had that Jesus ever existed. I asked her if she ever listened in History class. Which made her mad and then she wanted me to break down the Bible for her, which turned into a 4 month conversation of why this was this way and why this was that way. Then a conversation about why God was "mean" in the Old Testament and why God was "nice" in the New Testament. Then it became clear to me that she had no idea what she was talking about, on either end and had watched to many YouTube Videos.

Sarah - posted on 10/02/2011

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I'm not saying I agree with the way she said what she said, but is it not also wrong to post about mythical creatures, fairy tales, mindless people who follow, etc. I have seen such words in many threads on here. Why is it ok for atheists to demean religion but not the other way around? Don't you think such words are disrespectful to people who are religious. I'm not saying it's right on either side, because it's not. My point is that perhaps people should think about how what they say will be taken before they say it. On Both sides of the spectrum.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/02/2011

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I took a Wicca 101 class and the man teaching it said that even if you don't believe Jesus was real you should at least believe that something big enough happened over 2000 years ago to warrant changing the western calandar.

I haven't quite decided what I believe after so long being raised Catholic but experiancing a lot of different veiws growing up.

Krista - posted on 10/01/2011

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Heh -- not to mention the fact that a LOT of atheists, including myself, do think that Jesus existed and that he was a man of peace and a teacher.

So we're not exactly denouncing him, are we?

Brittany - posted on 10/01/2011

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You know I would ask her just how will their ignorance become their demise?

Let's make a hypothetical situation here ok? Atheists just amuse me ok?

The Devil comes to Earth to take it over and dam all of our souls. He is running a muck and God says enough is enough. Then God, Jesus and The Mother Mary come to Earth to save mankind. So in the Bible Jesus said If you denounce me, I will denounce you in front of my Father. Now if Jesus, Mary and God are standing right in front of you, you can reach out touch them, maybe tug on God's beard to make sure it is real, are you going to stand there and tell them they don't exist? That would be insane. The Bible does not say that you have to be a life long Christian it just says If you denounce me I will denounce you in front of my Father. It does not say when or how or where.

That would be like saying Brittany, you do not exist. Yes I do. It also does not say that you have to say I love Jesus. Remember, they can read your thoughts. The thoughts of "Holy shit he is real" COUNT MY FRIEND!

So using that hypothetical situation I would ask her, her thoughts on that. Although I am sure I would lose her half way through the conversation.

Johnny - posted on 10/01/2011

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Shana, I also realize what you meant. But for those of us that are actually godless, it really is quite offensive to use that term to mean "the EVIL that ABUSE victims live with". I can tell from your posts that you are not wanting to be judgmental or offensive. It did not seem that you were trying to suggest that non-believers are inherently abusive.

But just imagine for a second that you substituted the term "god-fearing" for "godlessness" and ended up with the phrase, "I honestly think it would be better to pray for those whose home are totally god-fearing , the children and adults who are victims of abuse and violence." That would be rather offensive to believers I suspect, if you used a term that means people who have a deep faith to describe abusive homes.

I am not trying to pick on you or suggest that you are purposefully attacking non-believers. I do not think that is the case. I would just like for those people who think that this is okay and defensible, to use this term "godlessness" to mean all forms of Evil, to really think hard about how rude, condescending, and ignorant it sounds.

♥♪Megan♫♥ - posted on 10/01/2011

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Shana, I understood what you meant too.

Jen, yeah I was planning on blaming him anyway :)

[deleted account]

"Thanks Jen. My older daughter is now 7. The reflux seems to have fixed itself. My 6 month old doesn't seem to have any issues so far (different fathers) So I hope it was my older daughter's father's genetics and not mine. "

Yeah. let's blame them. ;)

Nicole - posted on 10/01/2011

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Shana, personally i understood what you meant. though i can only speak for myself. and as i do to also have the habit of writing in such a way that can be confused to mean something else. maybe it was that likeness that i understood. what you meant. but on that note i would agree. even if you do not have a deity its is still ungodly, or unkindly, against karma, and if you are wiccian it goes against the rule of three ?? ( anything you do unto other comes back at you its like either three or ten fold)

no child deserves to be abused.. and yes abused children should have a prayer said for them or kept in your thoughts in hope that they may find hope to escape the ill behavior bestowed upon them.

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